The Midlife Feast

Menopause and Body Image: How to Accept Your Changing Body with Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer, LMFT, CEDS-C

• Jenn Salib Huber RD ND • Season 6 • Episode 197

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What is acceptance is the requirement for growht? What would life look like if you just stopped trying to fix yourself? 

That's the question at the heart of this conversation with returning guest Alli Spotts-De Lazzer, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified Eating Disorders Specialist who has spent nearly 20 years working with people around eating, body image, and the experience of living in a body.

We dig into why self-esteem is a shaky foundation in midlife, when opinions of ourselves rise and fall with every hormonal shift and identity change. Alli's working definition of self-acceptance cuts deeper: choosing to stay with yourself even when shame, judgment, ego, or fear try to pull you away. It's knowing yourself, plus self-compassion, plus the willingness to face reality.

The biggest misunderstanding we tackle: acceptance is not resignation. Resignation says "it is what it is, there's nothing I can do." Acceptance says "it is what it is. What's next?" One keeps you stuck. The other creates the conditions for growth.

We also do a live, unscripted experiment using my own belly and body image history, which turned into one of the most unexpectedly moving moments I've had on this podcast. 

Alli also shares news about her new book, My Child Has an Eating Disorder: An Essential Guide for Parents of Kids, Teens, and Adults (Bloomsbury Academic, 2026).

Connect with Alli: Website: allispottsdelazzer.com Instagram: @allispottsdelazzer

Related episodes:

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📚 I wrote a book! Eat To Thrive During Menopause is out now!  Order your copy today and start thriving in midlife.

Looking for more about midlife,  menopause nutrition, and intuitive eating? Click here to grab one of my free guides and learn what I've got "on the menu" including my 1:1 and group programs. https://www.menopausenutritionist.ca/links

Welcome And The Fix Yourself Trap

Jenn Salib Huber

Welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast that helps you make sense of your body, your health, and menopause in the messy middle of midlife. I'm Dr. Jen Salib Huber, intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor, and author of Eat to Thrive During Menopause. Around here, we don't see midlife and menopause as problems to solve, but as invitations to live with more freedom, trust, and joy. Each week you'll hear real conversations and practical strategies to help you feel like yourself again. Eat without guilt, and turn midlife from a season of survival into a season of thriving. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dig in. Have you ever considered what life would be like if you just stopped trying to fix yourself? Now, as you think about your answer to that, I want you to think about another question. Does that look like resignation and being stuck in the suck? Or does it look like a container for growth? If you can't imagine that it looks like a container for growth, then you are going to love this conversation with Ali SpotsteLazer, who is an eating disorder therapist in California who's been on the podcast before. But I brought her on to talk about self-acceptance because it's something I talk about a lot, but it's also something that's hard to describe, especially in the context of body changes, health changes, and nutrition changes. How do we accept something that we don't like? How do we accept something that we think we don't want? And how can self-acceptance be a door that allows us to step into maybe more growth, more contentment, not necessarily happiness, which Allie describes in a really great way, but if nothing else, it creates space. So I really want you to kind of settle in for this one. It's a little longer. We share, we both of us share some really personal experiences around self-acceptance, how it's been hard, how it's helped, and what we want anyone listening who is struggling to hear. And as we say at the end of the episode, we want to hear what you would add to our definitions of self-acceptance. Hi, Allie. Welcome back to the Midlife Feast.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So nice to be back here. And Jen, thank you for all of the work that you do.

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh my gosh. Mutual admiration here. I'm such a big fan of the work that you do. And I'm really excited for us to dig into a topic that regular listeners and people in the Feaster community will recognize. And that is the topic of self-acceptance. Now, big topic. This is generally not a three-hour podcast, so we will try and like condense it down. But when we talk about self-acceptance, a lot of I think the confusion comes from what that actually means. So I would love to hear from you. What is self-acceptance?

Self-Acceptance Versus Self-Esteem

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Okay, so I'll go with you can hear in my voice, I get so excited about this. Self-acceptance for me means so many things, but I'll start kind of with the research definition, which is unconditional acceptance of self. But the problem is when people hear that, they often think it's settling, it's resignation. And there's also this thing, before we can even talk self-acceptance, I want to loop back to self-esteem, because for years we have been given this sort of formula that you can finally feel good enough about yourself. You'll be okay if you just have high self- self-esteem. Now, did you know? Oh my god, John, this is gonna like this, gosh, this blew me out of the water. I was reading about self-esteem, and I was like, wait, it's your opinion of yourself? Right? So let's go over that for a moment. If self-esteem, now this is I'm gonna go with pop psychology, not like research, because there's also a very steady, healthy self-esteem. But what we've been presented is that if you have a high opinion of yourself, you have high self-esteem. And yet, as a human being, as a therapist, I have met people with almost pathologically low self-esteem that is so wildly inaccurate to how amazing, fantastic, smart, dynamic they are. And then you watch, like one of my favorite examples of high self-esteem, examples at like Pop Psychology tells us, is watching a singing audition show. Someone comes in and they're like, I am the bee's niece, I am the best, and I will always love you, is their audition. And they mean it. Yeah, yeah. They get interviewed and they're like, it is their loss. Snap, snap, snap.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, they really believe that they are an award-winning singer.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yes, and so self-esteem, here's the other thing: self-esteem also rises and falls with our opinions of ourselves. Let's think about all the hormone changes we have during our midlife and after, which by the way, I'm kind of after now.

Jenn Salib Huber

Congratulations, welcome to the club.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Woohoo! But with all of these changes, with family changes, with crises of who am I now changes. Like our opinions of ourselves are changing so often. So I started to notice like, what the heck are we doing, hanging our everything on self-esteem? And there was also a personal piece of this. I want to ask you, like, I just am not someone who's gonna run around saying great things about myself. I can state factually what I've done. But like, I'm not, it's just, I wasn't, no, I jump no, you, like the the singer type thing in real life. Are you likely to be like, you know what? I am who I wanna be. I I I am just so proud of myself. Is that you?

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh, that's a really interesting question. I think that my answer has evolved over the years. I think that, you know, through my own work and my own process and have come to be proud of what I've done. Yes. And I don't I don't see any anything wrong with somebody saying, like, I'm really proud of what I've done.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Okay, but you're coming from that state of non-performative, you're actually like, you've been out, you're so grateful. That's the same with me. Grounded.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah. But the interesting thing, so what you were saying about self-esteem really made me think of, you know, as somebody born in the 70s and the pop psychology of the time was like, praise your kids to the, you know, put them on that pedestal, tell them that they're the best at everything. And you know, with the idea that like if we tell them that they're so amazing and great, that our they will believe that they're so amazing and great. And I think that there was a little bit of a disconnect in adulthood when it's like, wait a minute, I'm not as great as my mom and dad told me I was at everything. Yeah, and so that idea of self-esteem being it's your opinion of yourself. Right. I think it's a really helpful definition. So if somebody thinks like, oh, I have really low self-esteem, really what you have is a low opinion of yourself.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yes, and that can change up and down. But what I believe, and I I also started looking at how I do therapy, why with um, you know, telling someone that they have cognitive distortions, they're not thinking, I was like, wait, something just feels askew. And I'm not, please know I'm not insulting anything. I'm just having these critical thinking moments now that I am kind of, you know, midlife, because I think that there's even more to these beautiful frameworks and structures of how there's the anchor to self-esteem staying steady, I believe, is self-acceptance, which we can go into. Cognitive work. When we go in and we tell someone who already feels low self-esteem, I'm a piece of garbage, and we're like, yeah, you know what, you have cognitive distortions. Sometimes they've interpreted that as, oh my God, I can't even think right. So it's like, I kept thinking about for those people who those highly sensitive, and I don't mean that in a negative way, I mean it in a beautiful way. Because when you look at the gifts from that sensitivity, it's a superpower. When you look at how that sensitivity is blocking out balance, it's kryptonite. Oh wow, you're right. Yeah. So this leads into my developing theories about self-acceptance. And I don't mean that as like, I'm a thought leader, but I'm like loving thinking about this, and I'm super like listeners, please feel free. Jen, correct. Like, I think it's collaborative in how we look at this. But when I look at some of the definitions of popular terms that are supposed to give us peace inside self-esteem, how do I feel about myself? Confidence, can I do this? Self-acceptance. And you've got self-compassion, which is pretty steady, which is can I treat myself with the same kindness I give to others, in my opinion? But sometimes even that can be blocked without having self-acceptance because some people cannot turn that around on themselves.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So self-acceptance, part of it is can I be with myself as I am? Oh my gosh. Thank you. I'm gonna spew for just a sec. It is not absence of growth, it creates the conditions for it. It is not the absence of growth, which is one of the misunderstandings. It creates the conditions for it.

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh, I love that. Can I share how I define it? Because I really feel like these two things can like they can have a baby and they can be something beautiful. So how I describe it, and you know, I I think I even have a podcast on this, is where I see a lot of people, especially who are dealing with body changes and not feeling like themselves and really getting, let's say, stuck in body grief, you know, of their changing body is or just that not feeling like themselves. Like I just want to go back 20 years, I just want to be 35 again, or whatever it is, is this feeling that if they step into acceptance, they are resigning themselves to be stuck in the suck, as I say. Resignation is is what it is, and there's nothing I can do about it, versus acceptance is it is what it is. What's next? That yes. And so what you said about it creates the space for growth. Yes, I think is that it links so well that I just love that so much.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Here's a little bit of how this starts to work. And I've been working this out through some of my psychology today blogs. Like I'm really trying to figure out how to communicate this because, and I have a longer, actually want to test my longer definition, and then I'll go into how I think to work it. This is my working definition right now, scribbled in the word I'd like self-accepting that I can barely read it myself. Choosing to stay with yourself, especially when shame, judgment, ego, or fear try to pull you away. It's greeting the many parts of yourself with bravery and compassion. Contrary to popular belief, self-acceptance does not mean stopping growth. It creates the conditions for it. And in a simple nutshell, it is knowing oneself plus self-compassion plus a willingness to face reality. That self-acceptance to me.

Jenn Salib Huber

I agree with all of that. And I, you know, I think where do you where do you see people get stuck with this?

A Working Definition That Holds Up

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

I can give you a few examples, but we may even want to do like an in vivo exercise ourselves and see if it works, see if my theory works. Let's do it. So, first to explain, let's say someone has imposter syndrome. We often spend what I've noticed, we spend so much time in the space of shaming ourselves, trying to cast it away, trying to cover it up, trying to banish it. And self-acceptance actually asks you to shake its hand and be like, hey, how, okay, this is my belief. I'm gonna accept that right now, this is my belief. Whether or not it's true or debatable or whatever, like, let's set that aside and just go, okay, this is where I am. I believe that I have imposter syndrome. So let me get curious. How did it form? You know what? I think it might have formed in this way. How does it help? Because what I've seen people learn, and including myself, are things like, wow, it really pushes me, it helped me because I didn't feel enough, so I worked harder and harder, which actually really became a superpower until it became unbalanced. But interesting pieces, what I've seen over and over in the experimentation with this is when we lean into the self-acceptance with curiosity and compassion, it loses its power in the negative way. And we're able to say, oh, wait, so if this is kind of like a part of me, it may be there forever, it may not, whatever. How can I work with it where it helps? And how can I get around it? How do I build mechanisms? How do I build systems to not let it stop me? Because I don't want it to stop me. So then I can now be aligned with my values because I've accepted this piece instead of the distance that we create from these things that we have judgment about, I think is what's really getting in a lot of our ways of growth. Oh my god, you're you're nodding. This makes me, gosh, you this makes me so happy.

Jenn Salib Huber

I 100% agree. I really do, and I love that you are working on trying to expand this because I do think this is an area, especially in the in the body world, right? We talk about body neutrality, we talk about body acceptance, we talk about body grief. And yes, of course, we talk about acceptance, but I don't think that we have enough of a working definition that people can really sink their teeth into. Like it feels like a dictionary definition right now, and it I think that we really, really, really need to lean into it is accepting all of it the good, the bad, the ugly, but just not looking to fix it, to accept that it is what it is.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

We have some wonky, like let's say that you do have the cognitive distortion, which sometimes it does help to identify that, hey, this isn't a, this is like, this is how I think, but it's like not based in reality. That might like I don't want to, I don't want to knock anything because our formulas for healing will be unique to each of us. But I hope that this framing that you and I seem to be understanding, there's a lack of research on self-existence. There's tons on self-esteem, confidence, and I because I've been digging into this. And so I like I just love the invitation, and I would love for you to find, let's try in vivo, like find something about you that you push away, or you might have some embarrassment. I know that like I'm not asking you to reveal your deepest, darkest here, but and I may or may not be able to get you through it with self-acceptance. Yesterday I was working with a friend of mine who was so challenging. You know, at the end it was fascinating because she goes, You know what? I'm calmer right now, and I know I'm very talented. And I was like, I just watched her whole system calm down. But the resistance to meeting that part of her was wild.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm trying to think of an example that would be relevant.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

I mean, there's lots of things that maybe even go retro with something you've worked through and let's see if we can find a different perspective of.

Body Grief And Belly Acceptance

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh, well, that's an interesting. Well, I talk a lot about my belly, and so of course, like so many women, um, you know, the belly has always been a challenging part. And then I had three two pregnancies, three kids. One was a twin pregnancy, both were C-sections, um, you know, post uh post-surgical scars. Like there is nothing about my belly that looks the way it did. And for a long time, I really struggled with not just that it was bigger, but that like my C-section scars all puckered, and it looks like somebody took like a dull knife to it. Like it just really, and I spent a lot of time doing all the things to try and make it flatter and less puckered and less angry. And you know, and then as I, you know, got into menopause and developed really that that C-section shelf, and so it was really it was really challenging, and that was probably the probably the most challenging part, but understanding and just accepting that, you know, one day I was like, wait a minute, this is my belly, you know, it's mine, and it's the only one I'm gonna have. So I can either look at this every day and be angry or sad or grieve or wish that it was different. Uh-huh. Or I can just go on with my day and be like, yeah, it's my belly. And just accepting that like there was no going back. There was no going back, right? And there was no going back to change the circumstances that created all the wonderful things about it. There was nothing that I could do that was going to be a quick or a permanent fix. And it was probably gonna continue to change in ways that I would not necessarily say were welcome as I get older because of gravity and all the things. But all the work that I've done with body neutrality and and acceptance was like, okay, it is what it is. So am I gonna do anything about it? No, I'm not, because I accept that this is my belly. Yes, yes. But yeah, so I'd love to hear like if there's anything else that I could have, should have, would have done, like with this framework.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Well, Albert Ellis um is one of my absolute favorites in the theory department for therapy, and he was always like, don't the shit on yourself.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, I know.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

I said it kind of jokingly. I know, but I just like that that stuck out so much to have humor about something that causes so much of us, many of us, pain.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So I I did hear something missing, but I want let's I'm gonna do an experiment and I'm looking at kind of the steps that I'm thinking about in a critical way. So if you were identify, if you were to identify it, what was the driving thought? Was it the driving thought that caused you distress was I don't like my belly, correct?

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, yeah. I don't like how it looks. Even though I went into it with expectations of like, yeah, it's gonna change, and I got the stretch marks and all the things, there was just something very disembodying about seeing it in a mirror.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yes. Okay, that's what I'm curious about is how okay, so there's a value you have right now that I'm just learning about. There's some sort of a thing underneath it about what a belly that looks in a different way means about you. Yeah. Somehow it developed. Are you willing to kind of share or look back on what does it mean to have the belly that you're without describing anything triggering to anyone? When you think about the belly that you grieve, that you wished you have, there's two pieces to this. One, you worked your butt off to get closer to that belly, whatever this idea was. What was the idea, the development of it? That people who have this belly have an easier life, that people who have what did it give me? Yeah, all of it.

Jenn Salib Huber

I mean, and you know, to be clear to anyone listening, and probably people have heard bits of this before, like this was all part of the work that I did, you know, in my own journey. But I was always soft and round with the belly. I can look back to pictures of when I was six. You know, I was never somebody that had the quote flat stomach. And so as I was going through puberty and as my own very disordered eating started coming into play, it was very much about my body is not good unless it looks this way.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

There. So when you look at the origin, it was about wanting to feel safer, wanting to know judge. Yeah. Want to have some sort of sense of mastery about goodness, and that might give you reassurance.

Jenn Salib Huber

And protection.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Protection, right? So now if we are able to look at so this developed for these really vulnerable human. Amazing reasons that now we can look at and have a little bit of softness about. Like, Jen, you wanted to feel safer.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

But doesn't that say now too that you value fitting in? You value goodness? It's the what does this belief say about you in the whole like because I that's and shaking this, getting shaking the hands and getting curious about this belief that we're like, oh, it's a bad belief. It caused me pain. I've got you like it's like, dude, you wanted safety.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, absolutely.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So now accepting that it drove you for safety, we can look at okay, so part of it might have given you the illusion of safety, part of it, you get to have some pride for how freaking hard you worked, and you got it. Like also the changing of the body, even though it was beautiful raisins, like let's also honor like I worked really hard and it got jacked up.

Jenn Salib Huber

I love that line. I'm totally using that.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

I was fighting Mother Nature and I I won for a brief time and and then it got jacked up.

Jenn Salib Huber

You know, even the whole process of talking about it, I think for a lot of people, they're like, I can accept everything, but I can't accept my belly.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So here's where I'm going. Perspective. If this was someone else, what might you say? Because first of all, I want to reflect on the main pieces right now. You wanted safety, and Young Yu believed that your body was the key to feeling safer and gooder. No quotes in the world. What a freaking precious quality as a human being, right? Yeah. The want to fit in, be connected, be safer, more like that. Is just so like it chokes me up. It's so touching. And so this came in to protect. And so relatable, so human. Yeah. So, you know, if you can't find this next part for yourself, if this was someone else, if we're looking at the superpowers from it and the kryptonite from it, what are some of the superpowers from your belief that your belly would get you safer in the world if you fixed it?

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, I mean, okay, I'm not totally clear on the question.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Like I said, we're working this out together. The question, like something that I heard was it made you work your ass off.

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh, yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

You went against Mother Nature, and you fought. I mean, like that to me is so powerful that you fought Mother Nature.

Jenn Salib Huber

Mm-hmm. Oh, that's an interesting perspective. Kind of a badass. Yeah. I mean, I am very thankful for all of the challenges that I've had because my personality is, you know, I'm a helper. Whatever those Enneagrams are, I'm always on the helper scheme, you know, that that part of it. And so once I realized what I was going through and how it was impacting me, I just knew that I had to help others. And so I really, you know, I I share with anybody who asks, like, I don't have to like and love it. And in order to accept it and also to feel like it's in that body neutrality bucket for me. And you know, I can be so thankful for all the things it did and does. That's yeah, but I don't have to like it or love it.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

And that's okay too. And to add another layer though, to what I'm hearing is despite all the work you did to change it and it getting undone, you're also able to see the gifts. It, you know, it gets the nutrients distributed to your body, it housed healthy children that you wanted. It housed, it houses so many things. It connects the top of you to the bottom of you. And if you happen to like um walking, dancing, you know what I mean? Like it's a really important part. It may not visually match what is the dominant culture that gives us the illusion that we'll be safer if we match it. But as a grown-up person, are you really because there's a lot of really unsafe people that have great stomachs? I love that.

Jenn Salib Huber

That's so good.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

If we're going for like you know, walking a beauty pageant standard of stomachs, there are a lot of completely unsafe in themselves, unsafe to others, unsafe in their self-knowledge. You have great stomachs. Yeah. So if you like, I'm not asking you to, you know, caress this is like body positivity in the ways where people it's performative and you're rubbing yourself and loving on yourself. Now, some people do believe that, and some people are trying to talk themselves into it. But that softness and appreciation can also be that leans toward the positive. Why can't that be enough?

Jenn Salib Huber

I know, I know. Why can't it be enough?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Because it is enough. That's the problem. High self-esteem is too much. Healthy, realistic-based self-esteem is sustainable. It's like this goes into a thing that I used to get so like passionate about. People would come into therapy wanting to be happy, and I'm like, yeah, but if you're happy, you're outside of the bell curve, and that's a pop, which means you're gonna drop outside of the bell curve. Can we shoot for contented?

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, exactly.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Exactly. Up or down, you're in the bell curve, and then those moments where you drop out either up or down, those are pops.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, I love that. What a great description! Thank you. That is a great description. So

Tools For Scary Thoughts And Shame

Jenn Salib Huber

I want to talk about if somebody is shifting from okay, I've been in this fix me mentality.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Right.

Jenn Salib Huber

And now change the belief. And now I want to get into more of a self-acceptance. This is me. How can I grow? Yes. What are some of what are some of the ways that can help them to not feel like they're stuck in the suck?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

One of the things I think that keeps us stuck in the suck, and I'll tell you, like, this has been my superpower this year, and I might even choke up a little when I say this. Wow. I've had, without a doubt, the hardest year of my life. And what has kept me from that space of wishing it were different? My gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't. I'm not sorry. I didn't expect that. What's kept me from the bargaining? What's kept my mind from the distance in that really unproductive space of shudding on myself? Of what I do is I now redirect myself. Like I literally just walk up to the thought, I shake its hand and I go, okay, you're here. I'm gonna accept you. What are the, you know, what what are the lights in the darks from this thought? Where did it come from? What is it doing? Often it's so much trying to protect me. Okay, like I I kind of love you thought, or this thing happened. Horrible. And then I'm like, okay, well, I can spend time being like, God, what did I do to make it happen? Or what did other people do? Or blame, blame, blame, or whatever I want to do that a brain naturally wants to do to make it make sense. This sounds like it's the opposite of what you would naturally do, because it kind of is. I now, if I was a cartoon, I literally walk into this big, huge blob and I shake hands with it.

Jenn Salib Huber

And I sometimes the energy we put into pushing things away is a thousand times worse than if we just were like, okay.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

I accept that this happened. Oh my gosh, I just had to do a couple of not had to, I I was blessed with the opportunity to do a couple of podcasts. It had been years since I had done any. That's like you haven't heard from me because I've been working on all these other things and dealing with life and blah blah blah. But both of them were filmed. And I had passed out and smashed my face, had stitches all over, was black, blue, and green. I I looked like Alphabet stitched up with Herman Munster.

Jenn Salib Huber

Oh my gosh, Allie.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

And you know what? I was like, okay, so the first thing was, oh my gosh, you know, the way the brain does. Is this acceptable? And then I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, walk close to this little fear thought I just had about my looks, which I I know that looks are usually lie thoughts. They they're usually not actually grounded in my values. So I walked over to it, I shook its hand, and I was like, okay, hi, I recognize this thought right now. And I was like, okay, you're valid. If if that, you know, I'm not talking about this. Does it change the value of what I have to say? Can I show up with a green face? Okay, you know what? In a weird way, there was a part of me that by looking at the thought, I actually learned, oh my gosh, I actually care less about my looks than I ever have. Not in a kind way. I still style my hair, I still put together clothes that make me feel as stylish as my style permits. Um, so it's not the resignation, it's not the my grandmother used to say falling asleep in your mashed potatoes. And I always have this like vision of someone's face, you know what I mean? Like self-acceptance doesn't mean resignation.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yeah, I think it means actively finding the beauty, the gifts, and then the workarounds, or the acceptance of, oh wow, I had this thought. Because for me, as an eating disorder therapist of almost 20 years, there was also the thought of holy shit, I thought about my looks. Does that mean I'm a failure as a therapist? And then I was like, Oh, Brain, you chatter all the time. You just can't always make sense.

Jenn Salib Huber

Just because we think it doesn't mean we have to believe it.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yes, thoughts are not facts. Thoughts are not facts, thoughts are not everyone say it with us.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, thoughts are not facts. Absolutely. And even that is a different concept for people. You know, talking, you know, we've talked about how self-esteem is your opinion of yourself. And sometimes when I tell someone like, okay, you had that thought, is it true? Is it sometimes true, always true, never true, true for someone else? Realizing that a thought can be so many different things to different people, but it does not have to be true for you.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

You know what? I I was kind of laughing about this. That a lot of us can see, see that I think the brain is kind of bored sometimes and it's just like chattering and doing all sorts of things. And like, we know, let's say that I'm driving down the freeway and my brain chooses to be like, don't fly off the off ramp. Well, I know that that's a ridiculous thought, right? So we can effectively dismiss it, but then your brain gets into a vulnerable space. And you're like, oh, is it fact? And that's where I think with what you just said, the order of it, is it true? Is it all that? Even before that is the permission of can we get curious about what this thought actually represents? Does it represent safety? Does it represent um thoughtfulness? That like for me, that thought represented an old belief system. A thought the thought represented that I care what people think about me, but not in a pathological way, but in a way that like I want to serve as best as I can.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah. It's so fascinating, you know, and I I really think this is one of the gifts of midlife, is that I could not have, I don't think I could have had this discussion with myself uh 20 years ago, you know? And now I want to be curious about it because I want to get to know myself more, and I want to do that with compassion and acceptance. And I don't want to fight my way tooth and nail to the end of whatever this beautiful life is, you know?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

And I you just gave also earlier, you said something though that I think will save eons of energy, and this is why I got through this year because I cannot tell you how spectacularly crazy this year and I have been. I'm so sorry you haven't starting with fires in Los Angeles and actually having one 20 feet from my front door. I mean, that just kicked off a whole so what you said earlier is the energy that we expend pushing thoughts away, judging the thoughts. That's where I'm like, we don't have to be scared of our thoughts. If we actually just kind of bravely walk toward them with curiosity and compassion, we may end up saving so much energy. This entire year, every time my brain has gone to something expending false energy, for me, it's now I can see it, I can feel it. When I start to shame myself, any of it, I'm like, oh no, walk forward to that thought, meet it, read it, be curious, move forward.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um, and I think that that's gonna be a really helpful tool for people, even if it sounds like a completely foreign concept and they're like, what are these crazy ladies talking about? I think just this idea that not every thought requires a five alarm fire, right? Not every thought, even when they feel scary, even when they feel like urgent, right? Like this is what I hear a lot. It's like, oh my gosh, I pulled out my summer clothes and my body has changed again. The urgency, right? Of like, okay, so what is the thought there? What is the feeling? And just knowing that there is an alternative to what you have always done, which is run, fight, fight back, that there's you can still work on improving how you feel in your body, you can still work on it feeling better in and about your body without needing to go back into that diet cycle, right?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

And a couple of things adding like piling on to what you're saying is it's not if when we build the inside of us, the outside of us loses a lot of its power because again, looping back to the beginning, I think that society marketing, a lot of things give us the illusion that we're going to be safe if our body, and I wouldn't, I'm not gonna say we're not safe er sometimes in dominant cultures, judgmental cultures, all sorts of things. But oh, I just had that menopause post-menopause moment where everything went. When we build up the inside, the outside. The outside, like, okay, so the per the people who, okay, I have this, you know, let's say I'm like, oh gosh, nothing fits for the summer. I can bash myself for all those old reasons, or I can walk forward to, oh gosh, that realization really upset me and hurt me. Why did it upset me and hurt me? Gosh, because I feel like I let myself down. Oh wow, that means I have some standards that I wish I could maintain. And you know what? Right now, that's not working in because it would have taken away from being with my kids, it would have taken away from living a life, it would have taken away my laughter, it would have taken away my pleasure in actually having celebrations with other people. Okay, so I can acknowledge now how do I get around this? If it's too painful to like again, I go to my like, how do I how do I get moved through this? If I can't do it myself, then do I have a friend come over that I try stuff on for and just have them vote out things that don't work and help me come like if we can get out of the shame spirals, there are so many amazing solutions that add to the inner experience of contentedness in our life, which also makes the outer body less important to be in a certain way that we've always wanted it to be because we thought it would bring us this panacea of joy and safety, and goddamn, I'm gonna get there.

Jenn Salib Huber

So relatable, so relatable.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Yeah, because life will be easier when I'm there, and it have not seen that. I mean, maybe aspects, but I haven't seen anyone's actual struggles from the inside disappear because their body change. Usually it comes with, okay, now I have to change this because what I think thought it was gonna bring is still far away, so it must be me. And that again, that's where the thoughts come in. The thought of, okay, all these things have one thing in common, it's me, is a brilliant, resourceful conclusion. But it's not necessarily true. And that's where I'm like, oh wow, that just says the person was really resourceful when they were younger, putting together, or even right now, like they put together a solution. How resourceful. So let's honor the resourcefulness. Now can we really look at that thought?

Jenn Salib Huber

There's always so many layers to it. I I just can't thank you enough for this discussion on self-uh acceptance because I think we've talked about so many different things: the body neutrality, the body positivity, I've talked about body appreciation, but I've not had an in-depth discussion about what acceptance actually means. And I can't thank you enough for everything that you've shared today.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Thank you. And thank you for curious. Thank you for doing the experiment. Did you, and you do not have to say yes at all. Did you, in doing that experiment with hindsight, was there any breakthrough or different thinking or realization from it? And I I sincerely mean there's no pressure.

Jenn Salib Huber

No, no, I know. And you know, I did this work so long ago that what I was sharing today wasn't really what I was living in the moment 10 years ago because I'm actually kind of away from that now. You know what I mean? So I think though that if we'd had this conversation 10 years ago, I would have had a lot of aha moments from it because I think meeting the thoughts, where did these come from? Obviously, I I've you know done that work on my story, but really kind of figuring out what what were some of the positives of that, of you know, being resourceful and solution-seeking and persistent and being able to recognize those qualities and also being able to redirect them.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

And that reminds me of uh a kind of a quote that that I'm really internalizing. People have a much harder time changing when they feel under attack, even from themselves, even from themselves.

Jenn Salib Huber

And really, that's probably the one that most people will relate to, right? I think, yeah, that's what most people are. So

New Book And Listener Invitation

Jenn Salib Huber

even though the last year and a half has sounds like it's been very challenging, you have put that resourcefulness to good use, and you have a new book coming out, right?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Thank you. And with that resource, honestly, like I am so good, I cannot even tell like that bell curve, no matter how out of the bell curve things have happened, I've stayed in the bell curve this whole time. And I'm like, that is not the person I ever thought I would be. I was such a S H blank T S H O W when I was younger. I was a mess. So even just that, this it's really the work helps. And yes, I'm very excited. Thank you so much. This I've run a parent support group, parents of people, uh, parents and caregivers of people with eating disorders for uh since 2011. So that's basically 15 years. It's always been a community resources, and I noticed that people were asking the same questions over and over. And I was like, what it's like you're scared your kid's gonna die, and you can't find the info. What the heck is going on? So tracked a lot of the questions, centralized a lot of the information, invited a recovery coach to join because I'm a licensed therapist, so I have some rules about what and how I share things. And then the recovery coach has more, she's got an openness about her lived experience of recovery as well as her experience as a live-in coach. So she brought in some more in-the-trenches stuff. So we combine, like in those ways, I feel so happy that it offers more than just clinical ideas and examples that I can give as a conglomerate and gives a little more in the trenches help to parents. So basically, it answers about 80 questions and centralizes information that I didn't realize was so scattered. And I just hope that it helps parents save time because we know that eat disordered eating, eating disorders, by the time you notice it, most people, even who have it, still think they're failing at their diets, failing at their exercise. They're failing at overcoming mother nature. They're like, they don't even realize that it's now an eating disorder, it's not you failing willpower or anything.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

So it's so complicated. By the time people get worried, it's often been there a little bit. The longer it stays, the longer the habits form, the chronicity form. So I just hope that it can save parents some time. There's lots of ways to approach eating disorders and healing. So it's not the way, but hopefully it offers some help. It's Bloomsbury Academic. The title is My Child Has an Eating Disorder, an essential guide for parents of kids, teens, and adults.

Jenn Salib Huber

Amazing. We'll have the link in the show notes too. So thank you for your work. I know that there will be many, many families and individuals who are helped by it. So thank you.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Thank you. Invitation to listeners, if you have add-ons to self-acceptance for Jen or I, please drop it to Jen's chat. I would I'll be monitoring and looking too, but like just think about it. Add in. I think as a big old think tank, we can get somewhere. Yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber

Yeah. And I mean the add-on philosophy, it's like built into intuitive eating, right? Um last question, Ellie. What do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife?

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Oh man. The missing ingredient is actually stopping to appreciate the missing ingredient every day. That's a fun way to think about that. That's my gut answer because I'm like, oh my gosh, even though my body's falling apart, I don't feel like I'm missing things. I felt like I was missing things much more in all the decades prior.

Jenn Salib Huber

I love that. Thank you, Allie. Thank you so much. And uh I look forward to hearing what listeners think. So if you are listening, we want to hear what you think of self-acceptance and if you have anything to add to this.

Alli Spotts-De-Lazzer

Next time I want to ask Jen what she's thinks the missing ingredient is. Okay. Sounds good.

Coaching Resources And Closing

Jenn Salib Huber

Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Midlife Feast. If you're ready to take the next step towards thriving in midlife, head to menopausenutritionist.ca to learn more about my one-to-one and group coaching programs, free resources, and where to get your copy of Eat to Thrive during menopause. And if you've loved today's conversation and found it helpful, please share it with a friend who needs to hear this and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps so many more people just like you find their way to food freedom and midlife confidence. Until next time, remember, midlife is not the end of the story, it's the feast. Let's savor it together.

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Dr. Jenn Salib Huber RD ND

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