Europe Is Coming

Weekly Update - Online Semi Finals/Thoughts on the season so far

• The Progrm

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 53:10

The Progm at https://www.instagram.com/theprogrm/

Please share feedback and questions to: info@theprogrm.com


Video version: https://www.youtube.com/@TheProgrmAcademy/streams

Come and join us live Mondays at 6pm GMT 7PM CET on the above link.

We  have an EIC offer for you. You can get a 10% discount on all of The Progrm courses or the Athlete Academy, just pop in the code EIC at the checkout to get the deal.  Visit https://theprogrm.com/ and take a look at the COURSES and ACADEMY and make your pick!

The Progm at https://www.instagram.com/theprogrm/

SPEAKER_00

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Europe Is Coming podcast. My name's Adam Giles and I'm here as ever with John Singleton. How are you, John? Good. Good.

SPEAKER_01

It's the it is the last I mean last day of semi-finals now. Last, in fact, last two hours of semi-final season.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, how's um how's it been for you? Is it been a busy weekend with athletes?

SPEAKER_01

Um, not super busy. Like we have our head coach Chris, who's been leading it mainly. So we have two athletes on the island who are doing it, Jan and Ella. And we've gone to CrossFit Anarchy. So the owner Ben has been super helpful as well. So it's been uh it's been a good weekend. You know, it's it's nice for me in some ways to to be like one position removed from where I usually was and be able to help where I can or fill in fill in gaps when needed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, nice. It's a pretty intense sort of weekend, otherwise, right? Of like it because it's kind of feels a bit like quarterfinals, but ramped up to a whole new level. Because this is you know, this is the last moment, and you've got to make sure all the like standards are maintained, recording. Like it's anyone who's done an online qualifier will probably know that they're they're pretty stressful at the best of times.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think some advantages that the setup was relatively simple, which is good, because man, you know, the last the last thing you want is that an athlete doesn't go because you mismeasured a distance or whatever it may be. So when all of a sudden in this workout you've got like four or five movements, you've got to measure this distance, and it's like one because we didn't convert centimeters at 152, 156, you have to tape lines. Did you say the password that you need to say? You have to have two judges. It's it's uh it is you know, it's an exceeding, it's not just the athlete doing a workout. There's a lot of I mean, you know, we've had we had to go to another gym, Ben's been setting up everything, and and yeah, then you add the like level of anxiety onto that. It's so it doesn't mean yeah, that you are completely right, Wentz. A lot of coaches will be happy not to have athletes doing online semis this weekend purely because it is it is a lot of work. In some ways, it's easy to go into a competition because the event organizer, you know, you just have to worry about getting the athlete onto the floor.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I was gonna say. I mean, I think this is we we've talked about it a bit before, and I know the the space has kind of gone on about the fact that more more in-person uh competitions and qualify more athletes from in-person competitions and that kind of stuff, try and get rid of maybe some of the some of the online uh stuff like quarterfinals, even and just have have it being more in-person. But yeah, that is one of the benefits, right? You don't have to worry about because you just turned up to comp, they've built it for you. They've built the everything. You don't need to worry about it, you just need to kind of like come up with your strategy and go. Whereas, whereas when you're doing it in your own gym, you kind of got to build everything. Um, and and you mentioned about converting centimetres. Did CrossFit provide? I mean, again, being in Europe, we have a slightly different measurement system in weights and and and heights and distances and stuff. Do they give provide that, or do you have to do the conversion yourself? This is the trouble.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes the unknown and unknowable element of CrossFit seems to seep into everything. I mean to everything. Like give an example. So there's been some stuff in the past of where the athlete starts.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01

And so it's like, you know, back facing this, facing forward there, starting in this position. And in most of the workouts, the athlete can just stand tall until 3, 2, 1 go at the place where they're going to start.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Makes sense. Great. Then the ring muscle at one where you start with the thrusters. For some reason, you start under the rings and then can go to the bar. So, like, I think it's the fact that it's not there's not a consistent format that makes it tricky. You constantly have to like reread the rules last year was different, the year before that was different. And you know, I I think this is where the argument of having more consistency comes in because you go, look, I I get the unknown and knowable aspect of the sport, but do you know where an athlete stands to start a workout, is that really going to add something if he's that like you know, always has to start in this different position.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you sort of end up having to, with the stress of everything going on, end up having to be a competition of reading rule books and and spreadsheets and and stuff as much as it is about fitness all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and we've seen so many examples in the past of athletes not going through because of random standards. I mean, like Jacob Heppner put up an epic time on the the rope climb workout. You know, speaking Jacob Hep Hepner, he didn't go to the games one year because of this like handstand push-up standard or whatever that was.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that standard killed me as well. I have very long forearms and I was I was not a fan of that standard. Let's just say that.

SPEAKER_01

And so there's all these things over the years where you're like, you know, maybe if we just standard, like learning from the mistakes to improve the standardization of certain things would be, I think, useful.

SPEAKER_00

Very much so. We actually didn't haven't spoken about the workouts for semi-finals, so I thought I'd just pull them up. We could have a quick, quick look at them um and get your thoughts on on what you thought of the the workouts for the weekend just gone. Um so here they are. Again, if you're if you're watching the the video stream, you'll you'll be able to see them on screen now. If not, I will read them out if you're on audio only. Workout one is four time. Uh 18 hang cleans, one rope climb, which is 15 foot, and 15 hand cleans, two rope climbs, 12 hand cleans, three rope climbs, nine hand cleans, four rope climbs, six hand cleans, five rope climbs, three hand cleans, six rope climbs. Uh the weights for the hand cleans are 135 and 95 pounds. So what's that? About 65, 70 kilos and 45-ish, 40-ish kilos. Sorry, my match is not great, but that's roughly 2.2 in around that park.

SPEAKER_02

Is my mic did my mic I unplugged it, actually? You're back in. You're back in. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, back in, back in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so this is the workout that Jacob Hepner did, and like just phenomenal time. I mean, very phenomenal time. I this is the one thing with online is because people can do it in the comfort of their home. They sometimes get a wheelhouse workout. You see these like incredible times go down. So Jacob Hepner, I think he was like in the six minutes, which it's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_00

Uh do you think the the like top five uh in semifinals going to compare to that? Do you think that that'd be up there?

SPEAKER_01

I think yeah. I mean on the other stuff, not obviously obviously not, but I think on this uh rope climb one, then yes, he will be he will be up there, possibly one of the best times. Uh and this is the this is the thing, you know, this if you look through the list of athletes there's probably like 20 athletes or whatever it is that you go, where if they qualify, you wouldn't be surprised. And as always, there's people that you haven't even thought about who uh who can come through as well. So it the the the uh leaderboard opens up at nine o'clock tonight, so in two hours. So that's when we'll have the the unofficial results. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

And what do you think of the workout itself?

SPEAKER_02

I thought it was okay.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I mean for for most athletes it comes about the the efficiency on the on the rope being able to manage that many rope climbs. The hang cleans, you know, they obviously tax the grip a bit more and add a barbell component to it, so you can't just be a a light ninja flowing up the rope. But I think really it's just this is one of the interesting ones where it'd have been interesting to see if you know, and you never know, but if the athletes just did the rope climbs, would you get the same leaderboard? So it's like how much did the hand cleans factor in for the athletes here, or is it basically just uh you could have done rope climbs and got the same results? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like you were saying about setup as well, it's quite a nice one that you can it doesn't take up massive amounts of space in the gym, so you can as long as you've got a rope climb in a good position. I would disagree.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah? Well, as I said this today, actually, but like measuring ropes must be the biggest health and safety hazard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the measurement side of things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, the amount of times you had to like jump up on rigs and someone get the tape, or luckily the owner Ben went to go get this like crazy long ladder so we could put it up and tape it. Because you know, for most gyms, when they set up the gym, they go, Okay, we want to put a rope that's hanging from something stable. They don't go, oh, one day we might have semi-finals here, so we need a exactly 15-foot target for the athletes to go to. Um, so I think it's probably the hardest to measure. And you know, some gyms that they only have 14-foot ropes. So then athletes will then have to go to a different gym to it's not the most it's not the most online friendly skill to put in.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's like things like this that I mean, even you know, I've kind of had to measure rope plans before, and as soon as you said that, I was like, of course, I don't know why it's based on that. But it's also really hard to show on camera that it's a 15-foot rope as well, sometimes when you're trying to measure it, it's just it is a faff. The health and safety line is very accurate.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I suppose the argument is, you know, well, if you're a an athlete wanting to go to games, then etc. etc. will be. But I think in terms of online movements to put in, everyone's kind of sh accepted this like 25-foot distance, and and it's typically fine. Like most spaces have that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I was gonna say though, I mean, I I think it's probably as fine when you're saying about people wanting to go to the games for for some of the top games athletes who have got their own gyms or have you know part of big training camps where they have they build facilities for this kind of stuff, but people coming up new to the you know, or maybe new to the scene or or breaking through doesn't add an extra dimension, which is a bit of a pain in the butt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm gonna see. I'll uh just where we go through the next workout, I'm gonna see if I can find this. Uh this old he's uh uh young guy, actually. He used to he came on some training camps. He's from Romania. I don't know if you remember, there's this like famous open video um where he's training in his barn. And to get all the open workouts done, he had to like build some of his own equipment and stuff. But I'll find the video and pull it up where you go to the the other workouts.

SPEAKER_00

That feels like uh old days of CrossFit where people were taping uh plates to uh to dumbbells. Um so workout number two was full-time, 30 lateral burpee box jump overs, 30 and 24 inch, slightly higher for both man and female, um, 40 calorie row, 30 deadlifts at 315 and 225, and then 40 calorie row and 30 lateral box jump overs. So uh so yeah, just kind of a bit of a chipper in terms of volume of of movement, but again, a 15-minute time cap. What do you think to this workout?

SPEAKER_02

Um so I was looking for the video.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, like heavy deadlifts are a big factor in this. The the high box jump does make a difference. I mean it's 60 burpee box jump overs and the row, the row just gets the heart rates up. I mean, I think it's like, you know, again, like in of itself, it's a solid, a solid workout. Obviously, someone with good pulling from the floor is gonna do a lot better in here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it feels I mean, uh I've for some reason I had Colton Mertons in my head with this. I don't know if it was just because of the the deadlifts.

SPEAKER_01

I just feel like uh I know it's a bit of a higher box for him, but so I'm I'm gonna go against I'm gonna go against you again here I don't. Okay. I think yeah, I think the high box, the heavier deadlift, like we know Colton's like super strong squatting, but maybe not so much pulling, and then the row as well. I don't think I think some some of these workouts are like Colton's gonna smash. But I actually think he'll struggle. I think this will suit a bit of a a bigger, taller athlete, actually. Yeah, fair. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00

It looks quite a burny one, this like the last 30 box burpee box jumpovers, you're just kind of pushing to get it done, and it's I have seen a few few videos of people doing it online, and uh, there definitely wasn't aftermath of shoes off and you know rolling around on the floor. So it does seem to be a bit of a bit of a grim one to finish this one. It was I think the athletes really felt this at the end. Workout three is four time, three rounds of 30 wall ball shots, uh hundred foot um hand slam walk, and then a hundred double unders, and then into another three rounds of 15 wall ball shots, 50 foot hand slam walk, and then another 50 double unders. So basically three rounds at kind of full rep scheme and then another three rounds of half the rep scheme again. 25-minute time cap. Slightly longer one this one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and the big thing here is this heavy, heavy wool ball. Yeah, it's I think it's like accumulating like 160 meter handstand walk, um, like 450 double unders, but the big thing is like heavy wool-ball for the guys, and so that's definitely something that the player, you've got to be a strong, a stronger guy to do well. I think that's the general theme for for this. Like, if I was to favour a type of athlete, it would be someone like a gi or someone like Jack Farlow, I think they they can do very well in these workouts because of that strength aspect. I'm putting the heavier wool ball in here, like flip that over. I think if if you look at these workouts, apart from the rope climb, but they all just flip over, you know. If the deadlifts were light, for example, you'd kind of okay, it would change a bit. If the wall ball was normal, it would then change a bit. But everything everything's been kind of scaled up weight-wise in order to do that. And so I think the type of athlete that will go through will be the a bit more strength-biased.

SPEAKER_00

Hmm, and that's that's sort of been a bit of a theme we've seen in the last few years, really. We've talked about it a bit on the on the pod, like the last few games, certainly the last one has been kind of machine and and weight-based, and seems to be kind of a bit of a consistent shift in the sport these days.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's true. And I think this is what we've spoken about before. I don't think things need to get heavier in order to advance.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and actually, I think that's one of the things that some of the semi-finals have done well is actually kind of not just going heavier for the sake of um going heavier. I feel like some of the semifinals we've watched, it's been a bit more volume-based programming, like, you know, with rep schemes rather than let's just add weight.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that plays into movement efficiency, which I think is a skill that's that is really important as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agreed. I mean, it's certainly something that when CrossFit started, virtuosity and that that whole principle and and you know what was taught at level one was carried through. And um, yeah, I quite like the fact that that made a bit of a return in the semis. Hopefully, hopefully that carries into the games and that this is just uh just for this online portion.

SPEAKER_01

And that one thing also to point out here is like if you know CrossFit go for the inclusion thing with the time caps, which are like super long. Uh and if you're say you say you manage to make it because there's a lot of athletes that have made it through, it's like 2,000 athletes or whatever, and we're looking at seven going through. But my kind of take on the time cap is like giving these guys such a long time cap is a bit savage in a way, because the top guys will be finishing under 15 minutes. And so well and not just the top guys, there'd be quite a lot of athletes finishing under 15, so having another 10 minutes for the other guys to get through. It's like an interesting, it's just an interesting thought process that goes behind it. It's like, okay, we're gonna put heavier weights, we're gonna give more complex stuff like rope climbs, but then we're also gonna be nice with a a long time cap.

SPEAKER_00

It's like a weird mixed an elite. And arguably, does this online the last chance qualifier as it really is? Does it need to be inclusive? Probably not. So who's up for?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I think that's the like interesting things in that regard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Moving on to workout number four, which is five down to one. So five, four, three, two, one, reps of snatches at two twenty five and one fifty-five, and then five shuttle runs after each set. So you do five snatches, then you do five shuttle runs, and so forth and so on. Time cap ten minutes for this. Which again, I mean, ten minutes isn't a hugely long amount of time, but it does feel like a lot of the games caliber athletes are getting this done rapid, way under the game.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like four minutes. And I guess the time caps are strange. And I think like the rope climb, again, I do wonder in this workout, if you've just done snatching, uh it's probably a very strong correlation as I could almost remove the running. Uh we should we you know one of the things that we try to do in programming competition is make sure that each component is an important factor, otherwise I won't why add it in? And you do wonder, even someone like let's say take Clock off or you know, like no, just a crazy strong guy, the chances are they're gonna do well in this, even because the running's relatively relatively short.

SPEAKER_00

What would you change it to if we were gonna like sort of look at someone else's homework and and make some corrections? What would what would you change the running to to kind of like make it a bit more interesting?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe here would have been a good place to put the double unders in. So you could then you know maybe go up to like 500, because they've got 450 doubles in there, maybe it's like around 500 double unders with this rep scheme could kind of make sense. And then uh you know, the it just gets a lot more gassy in that way, and there's a bit more of uh the skill component to it. But then it's also the the weight choice of the snatches, because you've gone to this weight, i it's very hard not to make a snatch workout.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, which is like what 100 kilos for guys and what's that? 70. Yeah. For ladies, which is I mean, very heavy, but for again for games caliber athletes now, it's it's pretty comfy for a lot of them, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but even still, it's like you need the stronger athletes again, will do well. Which is you know, I think it's fine some of the workouts because you go, well, you need to have that strength bias somewhere.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I saw uh was it Ben Smith did some touch and go on the on on the five, which is which is cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think a th a few will, and then you saw Alex Gazan's video where she muscle snatched the the final rep. I mean she went which is just insane. I mean it is pretty insane, like okay, you know, talk I was talking about elite athletes here, but there's out of the population of male athletes in the in the world, there's very few male athletes that could muscle snatch 70 kilos fresh, let alone at the end of the workout, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, let alone at the end of the workout. Um yeah, it's funny. I saw that Alex Kazan basically, because uh she was like, I'm just gonna do it because I want the prize money, because there's some decent prize money for first place if you win. Oh really? I didn't so a load of athletes have kind of jumped back in um who have already maybe. What happens for spacing? How do you mean?

SPEAKER_01

So they've done it different because I I this is where the rules have changed over years, and I can't remember. Because like if they qualify now, do they backfill because this has happened in the past where athletes have done multiple competitions and they then get the place from like a certain competition. So I don't know where they backfill from. Do they backfill from their first or their last competition?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think the first. So I think Alex has already got her spot, and then Yeah, but the so the backfill won't go to where she competed live. No, I don't think I don't believe so. I don't believe so. But I don't know. Who knows? CrossFit could throw a curveball and that could totally happen. But I did apparently uh I think it was on Fisa Gaffey and her the podcast that they have together, they were talking about it or something, and she was like, I'm just gonna enter in again to uh to make some extra money. So it'll be interesting to see how many athletes do that, whether the leaderboard is Like full of what you qualified games at least. Yeah. I don't either, but again, it's decent price money. I think it's I think it's like 10 grand if you win the semi-final.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it's it's true.

SPEAKER_00

I think you're at home gym and you've qualified a while ago and you feel f kind of fresh and yeah. So no.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's not the worst idea.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting. Interesting to see what happens. Workout number five is a bit of a classic rep scheme, or certainly set familiar to a lot of crossfitters. 12, 9, 6 reps for time, thrusters, and muscle ups. Um uh 185 on the bar for the guys, 125 on the bar for ladies, it's quite quite a fast one. Um almost feels a bit like a mini fran. And uh yeah, certainly hearing a lot of uh athletes say that this this kind of got their legs.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's you know, the same pattern has emerged, they just went heavy on it, you know, it just went super heavy thrusters. And you know, at this level, it's probably you know obviously be a combination of both for the for the top guys, but what again the type of athlete that will go through will be someone who's more strength biased than than gymnastics biased in this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you don't think the the volume of muscle ups is enough to kind of throw off not the athletes.

SPEAKER_01

Because I think once you're at this this level of potentially qualifying, okay, that it might be that the ring muscle ups slow you down more than the thrusters because you're very strong. But I think if you take the broad spectrum of athletes, this workout is going to favour someone who's who's stronger. This is like a workout where Colton, for example, you'd be like, one, because he's so strong in this movement, he's got like a 260 kilo back squat, his range of motion's so much less. Uh so it's like it's just great workouts for him, or a great workout for him. But I think then you've got an athlete, let's take Colin Bosshardt, it'll be interesting to see in this one who like thrusters and pulling gymnastics in this rep scheme is like quintessentially CrossFit because, like you say, it's like some kind of fran spin-off. There's someone like Colin who's Bossard, who's maybe not the strongest athlete, but it is it at the fringe of the weight where he can just get through it well enough, or does it tip over to just being too strong?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, interesting. So, what what are your thoughts overall on the on the workouts? How do you feel about them in in like the main?

SPEAKER_01

I you know, I think they're fine. And if what you're looking to do is buy a strength, then that's what you've what you've achieved. I like that they were pretty simple, like this one, you know, it's it's pretty easy, just walk between the bar and ring muscle ups. Like there's only five. I think that is probably enough to be able to to find it through. Um so I think there's you know that that ease of work out is is good, but yeah, I would say it's biased someone who's who's stronger. Like I think the Ghee might have a good shot with these workouts.

SPEAKER_00

Speaking about athletes, I don't have the full list of of who is trying to qualify, but some big big names that still haven't qualified, so we can kind of talk about them. Like Justin Madeiros, Colton Murtens, who mentioned already, Era Lowen, Grace Walton, Pat Vellner, um some others on the male side. You're looking at like Harry Lightfoot, Chris Abera, Colin Bossard, who you just mentioned, Nick Matthew, Yonikoski, um, and then on the women's side, we've mentioned already like Fisa Gaffey, Claudia Gluck, Alexis Raptis, Lexi Neely, Sinior McSnee McCalition. There's quite a few big hitters still out there. Who and even like you mentioned Ghee and Emily Rolfe, like yeah, there's there's quite a few that haven't made it. So we've got seven on the guy's side, seven on the ladies' side. Who do you who do you think gets the top seven spots? It's hard to say. See, with no idea of where we're it's really hard to say.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you have to put someone like Justin Madeiras in there. One, he's that's it's a stronger athlete anyway, but he's won the games twice. So Colton as well. You gotta think, like I said, there's like 14 or 15 athletes that can go there. Actually, I think Hiller put up his predictions. I don't know if you can uh see on his Instagram, he had like a prediction there. But in the meantime, I'm gonna pull up remember I mentioned at the first workout. Let me see if I share my screen. Yeah. This this is the the kid that I was mentioning. Can you see the screen now?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I will uh let me add it to hang on two seconds, switch us over. Here you go.

SPEAKER_01

So this is this is Barney. He was like a real legend. I mean, he came to some training camps. He was uh when weightlifting and I won weightlifting one and one and I worked together back in the day, he'd come to some camps, and you can see here this is like his shed in in Romania. And you know, it's a kind of like freezing cold in winter, so he had to heat his barbell with a blowtorch because it's frozen over. And he did all the open workouts and basically had to make some stuff himself. So you see it uh here, for example, he's like made these homemade kettlebells. Uh and he yeah, so he made this rower. Like how epic is this? That he made his own rower, and I remember he came to one of the we had him on to a team camp. Uh is this? I mean, I can tell the the story is it's a bit sad in some ways. But this is way back in the day, I think like 2016, something around that time, and I was running a team camp, and in that team camp, actually, Gabby Magawa was there, and this is when she was 16, 17, so a teen athlete, and she just qualified for the CrossFit games. She had an equipment company sponsor at the time. I can't actually remember their name. And it just so happened that Barney came to the same team camp, was the same age, but he submitted himself in the elite category because he was he wasn't sure that even if he qualified for the games, he'd be able to afford to go. So he didn't want to put himself in in that position. But it turns out this equipment company that he had paid for all of Gabby's trip and they'd have paid for his trip as well. And based off the times he would have got, he would have gone to the game. So it's all right. Very sad story. But luckily, we got him to the uh the team camp.

SPEAKER_00

Uh wow, that's pretty cool. If if you're listening and you you you uh you can't see the visuals. This looks like it's on the on the CrossFit Games website. So uh have a have a search for it. What's the article called, John? What's that at the top? It's called Fitness in the Raw. In the Raw from yeah, 2016. So if you search for that, you'll see what we're referencing if you'll if you're on audio only. But um, yeah, really cool. It's actually so sad that you didn't get to go to the games. Um very cool to uh that is I mean it's it's sort of like we talk about CrossFit back in the day and about how there were you like Beg Bower and steal some kit, and I I've definitely seen some pretty uh I'll call them basic setups, but this is this is kind of like taking that to a whole new level.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, he's uh such a legend.

SPEAKER_00

Very cool. Um so going back to online semis, what do you think? Who've you got? Did you get the the Hill a little bit? Don't have access to it. Have you got it?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I'll put it up now. I'll add it. Because I know that he was putting some uh I don't think it's gonna let me. I can get the guys up here, so share screen. Can you see the screen now?

SPEAKER_00

Yes I can.

SPEAKER_01

So he's got Yonikoski, who I believe is uh instantly wrong, because Kosky I don't think is doing I could be wrong, uh but I think he's not doing the online semis because he had a competition this weekend. Oh really? Yeah. Justin Madeiras, I I think that's like a solid pick. Yeah, I agree. It's I mean, it's like you've got to you've got to have like Nate Nate so now we start going down, and it's like now you start going, yeah, yes, no, maybe. But he's got Nate Ackerman, Spencer Panchik, Colter Mertens, Harry Lightfoot, Chris Ibarra.

SPEAKER_00

And there's I think after Syndicate Crown, watching Nate Ackerman at Syndicate Crown, I I really I think as long as he's feeling fresh and and managed to recover from that and kind of wants to get after it. I was really impressed with him at Cyndia Cro Syndicate Crown. I I think he's definitely got a good strong chance to qualify.

SPEAKER_01

And so I'd maybe do this. I think there's names in here that I probably have in. Like we have Jan hopefully trying to qualify this weekend as well. And I you know, with these workouts, I think he's got a legitimate shot. But I I've picked four names that I think I you've got to put Velner in there. Like, I just don't think even with his age and not doing so well, you can ever count him out. Then podium at the games multiple times, it's online.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like the workouts suit him quite well as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. And then you've got Ghee and Jack, who I both think would these workouts again, just picking these workouts because they're they're slightly stronger. I'm going through I don't if Noah's doing it, or is it no Noah Wilson? I don't know Noah Wilson actually.

SPEAKER_00

So I think I think Noah Olson's on just under the initial cut line.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Oh yes, I think Olsen's got a good shot with these WordCats, but I don't know how much he's focused on it. So I think based on that, there's four names that I would Justin Ghee, Jack, and Patrick Velner, or then and put Jan in there for five.

SPEAKER_00

So there's already five names and I'll I'll shot Nate Nate in there as well for six. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And then I mean it's you know, you've got Colton, you've got Chrisabar, like it's it's gonna be very hard to to pick.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What about on the what about on the ladies side? Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_01

I I had a feeling I the ladies I think is a bit harder to pick, also because something interesting is like that wool ball workout, for example. They changed the standards this time. So the females had a heavy wool ball and made it to the same target. Um I don't know if it came after all the mayhem stuff about calling like the females get a an extra scaling aspect. But I think ironically, it would be easier for females to have the same weight wool ball but a lower target, just because that higher target for females is like exponentially harder. I think just at the average height of women is less classically more less explosive, so it's harder to get that reach. So I think I think that might affect things quite a lot in this in this field. And again, you've got like Ariel Owen, multiple-time podium at the games, and Lexus Raptus, Visa Gaffi. You've got lots of athletes that can really really do well on the female side.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I definitely, I mean, Ariel Owen's kind of like a stand-up name since she kind of made her arrival on the on the on the scene. She's been kind of in and around podium contentional at a lot of different competitions, and um if not on the podium, so I think definitely be surprised if she didn't make it through. Alexis Raptors, I think, as well, someone of her her standing, and and I also think the workout sort of seemed to suit her based on what what we were looking at.

SPEAKER_01

Um and then I must I must admit, like Ariel Lohan, she's one of those, I feel like she's a bit like Patrick Velner in the sense that maybe even more so that she just seems to come from nowhere. Like, even a rogue, she can podium at rogue, and she's not the type of athlete you go. If you just go, what workout could Ariel Ariel Loan win? It's hard to find something, but she just seems to deliver.

SPEAKER_00

Highly consistent. She seems to just and go a bit under the radio radar with it, but just yeah, super consistent at everything, like very well-rounded, very crossfit. Um, and then I I have a feeling looking at some of the names, I have a feeling Sydney McAulichan, that maybe the the again we're talking about the workouts, maybe they line up quite well for for her. I'd be interested to see how Emily Rolfe does again. Seems to always be in and around the game scene, and I think probably quite strong. And then also Sydney, someone like Sydney Wells, perhaps. Um, so they're still yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see what the leaderboard looks like at the end of today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, an hour and 20 minutes now.

SPEAKER_00

Hour and 20. Well, we're not gonna stay on uh live until then, but we will talk about it, I'm sure, um on next week's pod.

SPEAKER_01

Um official as well, so they'll go through all the reviews and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, which God, hopefully, hopefully the review process isn't doesn't pull out any again, we like we talked about earlier, when people miss out due to I don't know, something not being measured right or a weird standard. I hope there's none of that.

SPEAKER_01

Especially when it's something that's not you know, that's not gonna really influence and say really have any effect on the time of the workout, like for even a few centimetres difference, even 10 centimetres difference from like some of the floor markings, for example, it's not gonna and that's not where the time in the workout is for for these athletes.

SPEAKER_00

Well, semi-finals is almost done. The the games is gonna be shortly upon us. What is your overall thoughts of semi-finals now? We're we're kind of through them, or even just like the game season so far.

SPEAKER_01

I think semi-finals felt good for the community, especially in Madrid. There's all good feedback from French, from Torian, from Syndicate around the world. So I think it has given like more positive vibes to the community, which anything like that is welcomed at the moment. You know, I still don't think the open you know, there's the same thoughts as always. I don't think it's the best system for for CrossFit. I think it could be more optimal. I think that having seven places in the last chance was also a bit strange. Like it's kind of like a last chance qualifier, yes, the one with the most spots available, so it's just a felt bit strange. But all in all, based on where things are at the moment, I think it was positive, like a positive step back to where uh where things could be. And hopefully, you know, there's a new CEO in who from the the first outlook seems to be more focused on education and affiliates rather than sport, which is like a whole different discussion to start to get into. But you know, in thinking about this, right? I think that ignoring the power that CrossFit has as a sport is not the right thing to do. I just think we've you know, and we saw that with with Greg, like he really did not like the the CrossFit being the sport, and there's always this big argument that the budget, the time it takes, etc., it takes away from affiliates and and all these other things. But I really struggle to see what would you know for because the with the model that CrossFit has and affiliations, the affiliates run themselves, basically. I mean, what do the what do the affiliates actually get from CrossFit aside from the biggest thing, which is getting to call themselves a CrossFit gym? So you pay this license fee, it's four and a half thousand, whatever it is now. You could argue, is it a lot, not a lot? But you I can't help but think if the brand name kept getting better and more people started knowing what CrossFit is, associating that want to go to a CrossFit gym, that that is going to be worth so much more rather than adding in, I don't know, some more programming or whatever it may be, because the CrossFit gym owners have been so independent for so long just running their own model, and the sport just transcends all marketing that you can do. You know, if you start talking about Les Mills or uh whatever it may be, the one thing that CrossFit has outside of that is is this sport that people are really passionate about. And you know, I'm going on a long rant here, but and if you speak to a lot of gym owners about what inspired them to get into open a gym, do their level one, oftentimes it wasn't athletes, you know, like back in the era of Froning or Annie or whoever it may be, they inspired so many people to start CrossFit, and through that journey, those people then wanted to open a gym because they knew the the changes that happened. So I just I don't understand the thought process of constantly going back to oh, we need to focus on affiliates and education and not have a primary focus on sport that actually can act as this most powerful platform available in order to do the things that you would like to do and to be able to reach the people that you want to reach. Uh and and it's not saying that you know you should disregard these aspects of it, but yeah, yeah, I I just uh I think it's something that HIROCs have managed to do really well. Like there's now I mean I think higher rocks is like almost double the number of affiliates that that CrossFit has. They also have great education, they're also doing studies, they're also trying to get into the Olympics. The you know, and you could argue they've you know they've focused on the sport or the event more, but they're they're kind of focusing on this one thing, and it's helping to grow everything else because of that. They just have good people and good systems in place, but like visibly and effort-wise, it's this moment's happening. Like this weekend, actually, tomorrow I go or next couple of days I go to Stockholm for the High Rocks World Championships, and they're just using it as a huge platform in order to get their community together, get the best athletes in the world, showcase for their sponsors. You know, if I'll keep going. Another thing is that I think the biggest jump in like CrossFit gaining recognition, and I'd be interested to see like affiliate number rise. I don't think we have that data publicly, is when Reebok started to sponsor the sport. So it's a huge boom. And what's you know, high ruks right now has these big brands fighting over if they want to sponsor it or not. They have Puma, who's been their sponsor for a while, but they have no Nike would love to jump in there with Adidas or whoever it may be. These huge brands fighting to be a part of this movement. Whereas you look at the title sponsors, I mean, basically with Reebok, which helped the brand enormously, they end up getting into a huge lawsuit. The next people that come in, they're not happy. Next people that come in, they're not happy. I think the only people that have really spoken positively are Bolitas. They've like enjoyed their relationship with CrossFit and speak positively about it. But you know, all the brands before have left in some kind of you know unhappy way, even all the way down to like Whoop, they're getting like having CrossFit on your on Whoop, I'm sure would be like a good thing for both. But CrossFit see it in this way of like, hey, let's try and pick a fight against Whoop now. And like the founder was like a big fan of CrossFit until all this happened. So how many bridges can you burn and expect the you know, expect it to take momentum going forward?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it has always been a bit odd that like I did I did really understand protecting the IP and the brand at all costs back in the day, but now now it does seem detrimental. And one thing that for me, that if you're gonna focus on the affiliates, which never seems to happen, they kind of fit focus on giving programming, which look fine. I've run it at gyms, it's it's called giveaway programming. It means the gym doesn't have to pay for it and or or design it themselves. I kind of get it. But for me, the education side of CrossFit, if you really want to focus on affiliates and stuff, update the level one. And you know, actually you require coaches to have to take it every five years, but then there's no new content in it, even though the sport has moved on, the training has moved on, like other companies have come along. And provided education that coaches pay out of their pocket for to go and do. And when, you know, coaching CrossFit isn't the most lucrative. I know some coaches do really well, but it's like, you know, you're not getting there's a high churn, and a lot of people in the CrossFit space have been coaches go on to do other things like coach at different levels or create businesses that, you know, to s to make it sustainable and grow beyond just coaching in a box, you know, yeah, the people on the floor. And I don't see any real development in the education. It's like, well, here's then level four. It's like, well, you could update the level one, make the level one, make them all better, like in increase the, you know, not to completely change from what Greg put out in the journal and stuff like that, not the roots, but like update some of the things. Like, I'm sure the nutrition is the same thing that it was. I haven't done my done it in a while, but like I think that that's somewhere you could you could maybe focus. But I completely agree. Like, if to kind of go back to your original point around the sport of of CrossFit inspiring people, I I think kids, when they start playing football, have probably watched a Messi or a Ronaldo or whoever it is. Um, and that's why they wanted to start playing football. It wasn't necessarily because they went to a football camp and started playing football. Like, I'm sure there's some of that as well. Like people like their dad took them or their mum took them when they were a kid, and they they they they like they enjoy playing the sport and they've stuck with it. But I think a lot of people, and that's why these players of other sports are megastars, and all these people followed them on social media, is because of they caught someone's imagination playing playing the sport. And I certainly remember when I got into CrossFit and Rich Phoning, and then you know, those those kind of athletes, it was it was fun, it was like the media around it as well. Um, I was already doing CrossFit because I was kind of wanted a new sport to play, and you know, I was a bit older, a bit of a different demographic. But if you want to get kids involved, then I think there's got to be reasons for them to get excited.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like a hundred percent. Like uh the World Cup happening now will help football. Not because they run some campaign of like me playing football and going, oh well, look, if I can play football, everyone can play football, you know. It's it's just I mean, it just it just doesn't work like that. And another thing that I would say, um, I think sorry, I'm getting invaded by by some cats. Um the one thing I would say is that you we talk about this IP protection, right? What do the CrossFit gyms care if they go after Whoop for using like having a feature that recognizes someone's doing CrossFit? What they care about is that someone next to them is using the CrossFit's name, but not paying. And that's the one thing where they've been horrendous at. Like, especially in, you know, especially in countries like Latin America, like Latin America was booming. But because CrossFit didn't protect the IP in a way that actually mattered to affiliate members, everyone just de-affiliated because they go, Well, why am I going to pay four and a half thousand dollars? Which, you know, especially again, the the price of four and a half thousand dollars in in certain countries, the relative amount of that is a lot more. And you just end up with this with this question like, well, what else could I spend four and a half thousand dollars on? I could hire another coach for a certain period or whatever it may be. Because it doesn't it doesn't add any value because the guy next door is calling it CrossFit, doing CrossFit and just not paying, and they're not doing anything to stop them. And it's just it's like these battles that were this is where I come back down to like kind of defining indecisions. Like some at some point the decision-making process has been to fight this battle and not this battle, and I don't think it was the right decision or a good enough decision in order to move things in a in a northward direction.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree. Well, we've set the world to rights on uh the support across fit uh as always. Um and just kind of on my level one comment, I do think the course is really good, like a great two-day course and stuff. I just wish it would like to your point about CEO that every CEO I swear is like we need to look at the boxes and go back to the roots and da da da da. And it's like, well, I don't really think much has changed apart from a bit of programming and and and some other documentation, like these boxes have stayed around through thick and thin.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it's like, you know, they're you're kind of like, well, they're they're happy with the name. Just get the name CrossFit good. Like let's get that reputation better, and I'm sure that it will change great, protect the things that the box owners are interested in, which you know ultimately is going to be the person next to you using the name and not paying for it. Or there's just I think certain things that can be uh ticked off and uh and done in better ways. Anyway, you know, advancing education. The one thing they do talk about, and this is one thing Bruce said, is bringing these subject subject matter experts back. And I think this is a popular thing. Like a lot of people like doing CrossFit strongman, CrossFit mobility, CrossFit endurance, and and liked we obviously love what CrossFit is, and this idea of being kind of knowledgeable in all these different areas was appealing not just to a select few but actually the community. So getting to learn about all these different powerlifting or swimming, running, etc. And having subject matter experts in there uh is really good. You know, it's another area where basically after lots of years, most of them just left because they didn't enjoy the the terms that CrossFit were were giving.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it will kind of they I mean I remember there was another summer where it all just kind of was like, well, we're not doing this anymore. We're getting rid of all these um extra courses like the gymnastics. And I know, like, for instance, I think Chris Hinshaw had one around running or or aerobic, and that got kind of all got they all got binned in one in one fell swoop, and it was just a bit like, oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Fair enough, yeah. Yeah, because that there's something very powerful about the name CrossFit still, and there's something different about doing gymnastics course or CrossFit gymnastics course, and that's you know, just the power of a brand. And the CrossFit still has that power, despite you know, since I asked the question today to uh someone, but I was like, you know, what's we we've spoken about this before, but like you know, what's measurable since 2018 is is progress. I and yeah it's really hard to pick something tangible, okay. I'm sure you can find something like okay, you now get free programming, um which ironically a lot of people choose still to pay for us included, which I'm thankful, but a lot of gyms still choose not to pay like pay someone for gym programming because they don't necessarily want the style that CAP does or whatever that may be. But yeah, and I think if like over the last eight years, the one thing you can say is we now give free programming, you're like, you know, it's like well, you're really clutching at things to to answer that question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree, I agree, and it's um it's a shame. And I think it's you know, we've kind of had that little debate at the end of end of the pod just because obviously care about the direction of sport and um and you know, CrossFit as a whole, uh and want to see, like you say, want to see the brand recognition grow. And you know, I remember when the documentaries got put on Netflix for the first time and I had random people coming up to me and be like, you do that CrossFit thing, don't you? Like, who had never spoken to me about it before, but were like, wow, that's it's insane. Like, do you do the like and suddenly it was like people asked me questions about this thing that was kind of like really not where well known. I was like very unprepared for it at like workplaces and other places to kind of be like answering questions about. So this Rich Fronin guy told me, like, you know, you're like, Oh, okay, I wasn't expecting to have this conversation on a Monday morning, but fair enough. And that's sort of gone away. There's not not really those conversations so much anymore, which is weird considering it's you know, further on that I thought it was gonna get more mainstream and it's kind of gone the other way, really.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I think this is the decisions I think it had the potential to. I think it definitely there was a point in time where there was a potential for CrossFit to do that, but it just didn't.

SPEAKER_00

Well, hopefully, hopefully from uh 2026 onwards we start to see some positive changes, yeah. Bruce, Bruce comes in and and sorts out. John, thank you very much for the for the chat as ever. Um, is there anything else you want to talk about before you wrap up?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, an hour until an hour until we know, so it's gonna be an exciting, an exciting reveal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. To finish off a semi-final season. Well, gang, thank you very much for listening as ever. We'll be in about next week, we'll we'll kind of be able to talk about who made it through to the games, the seven men, seven women who make it make it to the final spots, the CrossFit games. And uh, John, as ever, thank you very much. And yeah, we'll catch you next week.