Performotion Podcast
Performotion Rehab and Performance Podcast
Performotion Podcast
We are back
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In this episode Steve and Kelly re hash the last three years leading PerforMotion from a pivot to online coaching to another pivot to clinical Exercise Physiology at their new Perf HQ location.
They also chat about Steve’s two torn biceps and how powerlifting has evolved over the last three years.
I lost my phone.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Alright. I don't even know what number this is. Alright, okay. Welcome. Welcome back to Coach Chat after a very long hiatus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or just the podcast in general, I think. Um we don't have to label it right now because we don't really have one.
SPEAKER_01Well, this could be coach chat. Could be chat about being coaches. Yeah. Any issues in powerlifting or powerlifting?
SPEAKER_00Anything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Anyway. I think um since we haven't done a podcast together in two years, I think it's um it's been a very long two years.
SPEAKER_00Um It has been. It has been a very long two years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Last time we did a podcast was February 2024. That was a month before you tore your first bicep.
SPEAKER_00It's a month before I moved away for two years as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How was it over there?
SPEAKER_00Uh cold. Cold and dark. Um other than that was it was good. Like I enjoyed living abroad for quite some time. Um but eventually that weather catches up to you. It's it's not nice.
SPEAKER_01No. No. I lived in um when I was going through uni, my first degree, I wanted to always live in London. And I was there for less than eight months.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, it's good it's good at the start and you're like, oh yeah, cool. I think like going over there as well, because I just had surgery, just tour my bicep, training wasn't, I guess, that much of a priority, I suppose, because I was like, well, how much can I do? And I mean I proved myself wrong this time around.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00However, I was like, oh cool, like I'm in a sling, but I can see the pubs, and I can go to the pubs. And I think that's um that was fun to start with, but then like as training picked up, and I guess like the work as well, and it just ended up being the same thing in a different country, but with terrible weather.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The hardest part is you wake up and it's dark and you go to bed and it's dark in the world.
SPEAKER_00In winter, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you literally don't get any vitamin D.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, none. None. And it like seasonal depression's a real thing. I used to think people were like, oh, I guess seasonal depression. Yeah, it's no, it's not good.
SPEAKER_01No, no, because there's no there's nothing fun to do. And you go outside and it's fucking cold.
SPEAKER_00It's really cold.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, how'd you go training in the cold?
SPEAKER_00Uh uh that was fine. Like the the gym's are all heated and stuff, so you don't notice you notice it when you walk in, and then once you've done something, it's like that's the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. It was a uh it was a hard two use in business too.
SPEAKER_00It was, yeah. Not so much like the online coaching aspect of stuff like that, that was quite the same. Um difficult navigating time zone differences with yourself and the rest of the business was a struggle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I mean by the end of it, obviously because we were trying to navigate the transition over into this new building as well, the hours I were doing were ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like the times that I was meeting at like 11 o'clock three times a week or something like that, until some meetings were at 1 a.m. That's fucked. Yeah, and it was that was and by the end, like I said, it was happening multiple times a week. And I mean, we knew that was going to happen. We just I didn't or yourself probably didn't expect for it to happen be that frequent by the end of it.
SPEAKER_01No. No, it was hard. I think the one of the hardest things is was that everything was happening during the day and then you'd wake up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd wake up and be like, fuck chaos.
SPEAKER_01And then we wouldn't get to talk until eight o'clock at night. Yeah. Which would keep me up at night, and then it would go round and round in circles like that. Yeah, it was I don't know how people run their businesses full time like that.
SPEAKER_00I think it it would it was easier until there was a big thing happening. Like with the with any sort of issues that arose or or um like moving, like that's something that's really hard to navigate because you've got to be there, right? And I wasn't here. So then it was like trying to be there as available as I could be before I got here was hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We learned some lessons during that time anyways, in terms of organization and structure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um you know, things are uh it's a lot less it feels a lot less messy now uh in terms of I think being going through the messiest parts in general in business, you can kind of come out on the other side and make better decisions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I think um just the hard part is you can communicate only so well through like email, text, and stuff like that, and then it's like waking up and you're probably the same, like waking up to something that's just like that's not how I went to sleep.
SPEAKER_01I used to dread it, to be honest. I dread it because I knew I'd dread waking up. I'd I dread waking up because I know I know that I'd have ten emails from you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then couldn't really talk because it was you you had to like on the days that we didn't have meetings, you were trying to get ready to go to bed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unknownYou know?
SPEAKER_00No, that's what I mean. And then the days where we didn't catch up in a in a call or something like that, I'm on my phone or something, like responding to stuff until at least midnight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's like, damn, that that was tricky to navigate, but I'm in it.
SPEAKER_01Well, I remember in the end you'd still be responding to me at midday because you just your sleep cycle went to shit.
SPEAKER_00It went really, really bad. Really bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just think I was sleeping at like 2 or 3 a.m., getting up at like 10 11, I was just like, Oh, that is that doing in that sleep cycle. I feel like a degenerate kid playing video games.
SPEAKER_01What would you do at 11 o'clock when Julesy was in bed?
SPEAKER_00She sleep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she was she'll sleep.
SPEAKER_01So you were just sitting there messaging?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just like trying to make sure that everyone was on the same page with everything that was happening.
SPEAKER_01Fucking hell. That's crazy. That's crazy. Would you go over again and like do holidays and stuff? Well, you're going to anyway, wouldn't you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we probably will. Um, but I don't know if England. Maybe if Jules wants to, but like uh Europe, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, going to Sheffield this year. I was like, I do not know I don't need to come back to England again.
SPEAKER_00It it it is lovely though, like I I enjoyed the historical part of it because it is different, but like it's Australia but older.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like the the castles and stuff like that were really cool to go and look at. We've seen a lot of them. So I like that. Um green are because it's raining more. But yeah, I mean a lot of people have seen or been to England, so it's not that much different um cultural wise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, it's not. Shit coffee though. Actually. No, there's some good places, but they're usually they're usually the um Aussie and Kiwi Cafes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean powerlift the powerlifting scene there as well is it's it's hard to explain because obviously I wasn't here and there was a new federation starting, so I don't I wasn't as as involved as much. Um I was kind of just in a limbo, right? Like I went over I went over there and I I, you know, was in a sling, so I'd done had surgery, and then you know, I was trying to still do worlds, but I wasn't allowed. Um and then I was like, okay, I gotta do another competition here, so I did just this random qualifier and then did that, and then I did the British, and then tore my adductor on my third squad. I was like, fuck's sake, what's the one?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was just about to say you didn't really have a good run with competing over there, did you?
SPEAKER_00No, I didn't. I had a shocker. Um And then I I did a an international meet for England, and then that was that was twelve weeks, or not even that, after I tore my adductor, because it was I was like, I was so strong. I need I need to do a competition. And obviously it was a bit tricky to navigate rehab and straight into a prep at the same time, but I was still relatively strong. And then I guess I think after that we sort of just started planning the camp come come back here.
SPEAKER_01It's a very a very big long plan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And Jules Jules did her um bikini show and stuff like that, so you know I sort of walked in around that and yeah.
SPEAKER_01What have we learned in the last two years?
SPEAKER_00Um shit, a lot. A lot.
SPEAKER_01I think can't rush.
SPEAKER_00You can't rush, no, you can't rush anything. Um I guess we've learned to take our time um with a lot of different business decisions uh and uh way that we sort of navigate things and um like direction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I think.
SPEAKER_01Oh there's it's there's so many there's so many mistakes. You can only it's like everything in life, you only learn from making mistakes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I would say yeah, that you you learn from making mistakes, but at the same time you grow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like the growth has been great as well. Um with where we are.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00I mean this building is fantastic. Um the culture we have here with just like staff in general and everything like that, everywhere everyone's seems so happy now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh I know it's been it's been different to that before. Um just a little bit. Yeah, just just based on you know, not anyone's wrongdoing or anything like that, but just I guess the way that uh we grew. We just grew too fast.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a tricky one. That was the trickiest part to navigate, honestly. Like that's the biggest learning, is like it's fantastic to grow, yeah, but it needs to be controlled growth at times.
SPEAKER_01Scaling without systems has been the biggest learning curve, and as I said just before, I think that it's super common um in small business to because at at the start, right, you're running a small business and at the end of the day you you have to make money to keep going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um it's really hard especially in service industries, right? You're not gonna say no to work.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like you can't say no to work. So if, you know, the work's coming, um, you know, in a perfect world, in a perfect world, we would be where we are right now four years ago, three years ago. In terms of headspace, in terms of organization, in terms of like all of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think it uh it just doesn't happen that way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you don't you don't realise how fast you're growing at the time. You're just like, oh shit, there's so much stuff coming in, like let's let's go. This is this is fantastic, let's just keep moving. But you don't realise how much help you need at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's the biggest I guess like fallback of what happened is we grew so fast and so rapid that you know we were we were putting more people in the in the positions of what they were doing and you know, building careers for people at the same time. And while that was happening, we weren't getting enough help in terms of like admin, systems, you know, organization and running the actual business because you and I were both doing so much as well. So it was like fuck and we're trying to manage people, and it's like there should have been someone that was managing the people that wasn't us because we were also doing so much, and that's where we kind of oh I say we grew too fast, is like we we outgrew what we were doing. Um and I think the we learnt from that, and obviously taking our time now we've got people in the right positions doing the right things, you know, like we don't deal as much with things that we shouldn't need to, which then can create issues, I suppose, that don't need to happen.
SPEAKER_01Like me trying to do everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, or just getting involved too much is like that's a big thing. Like and we we that's something that we've sort of been working on, I g I guess most recently is like let's let people do what they gotta do. Um I know that you're worse than me. Trying to like where you are, what are you doing? Like what what's going on with that? Like, oh I think you should do this and that.
SPEAKER_02I just get ideas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, but it's I think it's a big thing now, is like we've learned, like, okay, let them do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00See what happens because we know now that you know you learn from failure. If someone fails at what they're doing, it's completely fine. It's like we can help navigate and put them in the right trajectory after or between if they come to questions. It's like not going to someone with answers to questions they haven't asked.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00I think a big thing. It's like you should do this or you should do that. It's just like let someone else have an idea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think like one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is it's super hard to manage people if you can't manage yourself. So in terms of um growth and outlook and um being able to problem solve because I would always try to rush things without thinking. Exactly. Um but that's obviously related to ADHD. Now I can actually zoom out and be like, okay, so this needs to be done, but there's no point doing this until we can do that. You know what I mean? So, like um a great example is doing these podcasts again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, um, and marketing is one of the things that I'm interested in at the moment. Um, but there's no point flooding marketing channels until we sit down and actually go, what do we want this channel to look like now? How do we want this this to go? Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Like YouTube and Well, it's like it we we've been speaking about, oh let's let's fucking sit down and have a channel podcast again because we haven't done it in so long, but it's like we kept there was never a right moment. And I think the good thing about like waiting now and understanding is like if we started a podcast while we were still over at Bowen Hills, like that would have just been shit. It would have been nuts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It would have been so stupid. Like, uh okay, now we've got to pack up and we've got to leave.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and we've you know we've cemented this time into this every week, and we just would have fell off the face again. So it was like, no, we've got to wait, wait till we're comfortable here, and you know, I guess today or this week has been sort of the week when Yeah, I feel like we're finding our feet here now, and then it's like, okay, now let's start doing the things that we enjoyed doing before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But I just find it really hard to like sit still. Do you know what I mean? Like be okay with being okay?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not always complacency. Um I think Yeah, th I I get what you're saying is like being okay with being okay is better uh it's well, I mean, it's good to be okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think you're right, like there's always the next thing, like what's next.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and you know we've you sometimes go to what's next before we've fixed what's now.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Um you know, um because I I just it's just ideas, and I just like want to do new things all the time. You know what I mean? Whereas you're like, no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm like, well, for example, we've got an idea that was on the board over there, and I'm like, that's a good idea, but that's in five steps.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00Like that that's we need to get to a point where that makes sense before that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've already put the next put the next goal on the whiteboard, everyone. And put the next goal on the whiteboard. But I think I think, you know, as I said, it's been stressful, but I do remember when we had a conversation and I I guess from the outside outsider's perspective at the moment, it's pretty pretty obvious that there are two big streams for Perth now, with powerlifting and EP, whereas before it was very EP mixed powerlifting type thing, and that's where it was in when you came on 2021. And I think one thing that we should both give ourselves a bit of a pat on the back of is I think it was almost probably two years ago where you said let's try and break into the clinical market with EP.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think that's the big thing with business as well, because business will shift and business will change, and like that wasn't anything that we wanted to to change. It was also because we were pigeonholing the business into a niche within a niche of rehabbing powerlifters.
SPEAKER_01And it's niche on niche on niche.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and at the end of the day, like we are successful with that, yeah, but it's also in terms of growth and how we're going to grow, it it's a bit of a roadblock too. Yeah. Because you can only go so far with that. There is only so many power lifters in the world.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and I think we just sort of became aware of that uh and pivoted, although we still treat a ton of powerlifters and we still, you know, look after and coach a ton of powerlifters. I'm still extremely passionate about powerlifting myself and the coaching aspect.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, it was just a business decision, I think, because you know, like I said, business has got to grow at some point, and it's like we grew too rapid within that space that it was really hard to navigate as well, and we kind of pushed our EPs into roles that they didn't actually go to uni for.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Like not everyone that we employed as an EP wanted to rehab powerlifters, but because the business was so powerlifting heavy, it's what how we pigeonholed ourselves. Yeah. Um and we just had to sort of expand, I suppose, in what what we were sort of venturing down into and who we could treat. Yep. And I think that was a great business decision that we made, and it's you know, it's really made this place what it is now because we still have the powerlifting. Yeah. And you know, we still have our powerlifting coaches, and I like I said, I'm still extremely passionate about powerlifting and powerlifting coaching, not down trained six days a week. Um but we're also able to treat more people.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. And I think I've been reflecting because we had a conversation earlier in the week um about what's on the board, and I've been reflecting, for me, I don't think it's that I'm less passionate about powerlifting and coaching. It's that I've I feel like I'm at the stage of my life where I can't throw myself into one thing. So when you came on, right, I threw myself into powerlifting in terms of learning how to coach, learning how to program, wanted to be the like best coach. I kind of feel like now I'm trying to get some balance, whereas so I could be involved in more things rather than just one thing. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's more how my brain works, it's not uh function at work, it's more like I don't find myself getting like obsessed about one thing anymore through growth. I feel like it I can do multiple things like coach online, look after the EPs, do that without going too far one way because that was one of the problems that we'd always have, right? We'd the online would go really well and then EP would struggle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then EP would go really well, and then online would struggle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's just as a business what we've we've or as partners, I suppose, have learned how to navigate better and learn how to move. Do more, do do stuff that you know what we're able to do uh in terms of like you know, we we spend a lot of time like uh remodeling, I suppose, the services that the EPs have together, and you know, while still I'm still changing with the the coaching team on a frequent basis, and at times what we would do is if we were so hard focused on like let's you know shift towards EPs and jump on that lane for a bit and and push that in terms of like where the business is going to build up that team, the whole business would go over there. Whereas now I feel like we've done a lot, but we still kept enough communication and everything going with the coaches where it didn't fall apart. And it's like, yeah, you're gonna be more more, I guess, like percentile wise in one f part of the business as any one time because it's really hard to just be like fifty fifty because uh Y it's unless like I've said to you, we have different people in different positions and I think like what we've done is we've employed people, you know, uh we have Josh running the EP team, so we don't have to deal with the nitty-gritty stuff with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what that's what would get me bowled down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, which which was where we would be stuffed before because it'd be like, alright, let's look at the EP team and let's shift like our focus there to try and build up that that that part of the business, but we would have to do it, whereas now it's like we've employed people in the right place, as well as saying before, so that uh we are able to grow, but we don't have to get into the nitty-gritty stuff that we don't have to worry about. We can think about the overarching picture, relay the information, and then that can be relayed to the team without us having to get involved. And I mean, as far as I go with communication with our EPs on the floor, um it's generalized conversation. Now, how are you doing? Like what what's happening, how I are, what'd you do on the weekend, what'd you have for dinner, you know? It's it's I get to talk to the staff members.
SPEAKER_01Do a backwards somersault.
SPEAKER_00I get to talk with the staff members in the building about their life and you know how they are, rather than like Did you do this? Or rather the KPIs and be like, you know, we need to see performance here, or you need to be doing this, or you should be doing this, or trying to point them in the right direction because we didn't have someone there that could do it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Definitely. And then that when we didn't, that would mean that I would have to focus on one thing instead of focusing on ten million things. Physically couldn't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and same. I have to focus on you.
SPEAKER_01Fuck off. But yeah, it's good that like it's such a catch-22, though, because when you're in small business, you can't afford to employ the people that will help you do the job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? So you go through all of this and then you do employ the people and you take a risk on employing the people, and some people just aren't the right people. And that took me a really long time to um come to terms with because I would employ people and then I just want them to be the right person for the job, and you know, and in anything, sometimes it's just not the right person for the job, and doesn't matter what job it is, it could be the cleanup, it could be the you know, um mailman, you know, you like some people would be a really good mailman and some people just wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I would just put all my eggs in that mailman thinking this mailman's gonna be the best mailman ever, and you know, and it and it a lot of the times it's not that the person or the people don't have the skills, it's just not the right fit. Could be personality wise, could be, you know, values-wise is a big one. You know, one thing that we've gone really hard out on in the last year is values.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Ensuring everyone, you know, has very similar values uh in terms of what they value at work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Those things are important, and I think I made a mistake of not understanding that early enough, personally.
SPEAKER_00In terms of I think I think like being completely honest and a little transparent is I think we didn't really have the wrong people in the wrong places or anything like that. The growth needed to come on our end because it was really hard to let go of and being aware and acknowledging that we've put someone in a position, but with that comes us letting go, and that person felt a little or people have felt a little micromanaged in their positions, which then over time learnt, but like you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think a lot of the growth came on our end.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, in terms of being able to be like, be it is okay to be okay. Like because you're not busy and you're not navigating seven people and you're not you're not trying to manage them and look after them. You just gotta communicate with one person, yeah, and they're busier than you are, kind of thing. Do you get what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know, I get exactly what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that was the biggest biggest uh growth aspect I guess we had business wise in terms of being making everyone else happier in their role. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I like that I get to work on one thing now.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01What were you gonna say?
SPEAKER_00Um, I'm not sure. I just think I think that was that was the thing that sort of I guess made it hard before. Because people weren't unhappy, you know what I mean? Like they were unhappy in their roles, but I think they were unhappy for the way that it was I'm gonna say like it was a it was a blurred sort of role.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Blurred sort of people were in positions, you know, like um not blurred people, but like the way that I I'm I'm trying to find the words to say to to get it right without saying it w was people's fault, because I don't think it was anyone's fault. Um I think the the part was, you know, uh we didn't let go enough to let people do their jobs properly, and then that created resentment, and we didn't realise that was happening until it was too late.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yep. Most definitely. Most definitely. It's funny too, because like you know, obviously this place has cost us a lot of money.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to go too deep with it all because you know, uh, we're in a very, very good position right now, and obviously like this building is phenomenal, you know, the move that we've done was fucking big, big few weeks.
SPEAKER_01Big few weeks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, about a long a long period of getting it right. Um But yeah, I like the team that we have right now is fantastic. Everyone's you know doing a phenomenal job, you know, in terms of coaching team, EP, management, like everyone's in the in really found their found their feet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We come in and we've hit the ground running right away. That's that's been the best thing. It's like there's been no real like teething period or anything like that. It's just like we did so much groundwork before we came here that everyone come here and we've just hit the ground running, and it's just been fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and you know, it's it's enjoyable to walk into the space of work now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's the big thing for me. I uh it wasn't enjoyable for a really long time, and um you know, not work work going to work and not enjoying it is one thing, but going to work, not enjoying it, and not really having much else of a choice in what you want to do in your life, that can feel like you're in a closet. You know what I mean? Like, you know, if you weren't doing powerlifting coaching, you would be a butcher.
SPEAKER_00Would you ever quit that before I even did it as well? Exactly coach.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. But like so I saw a um post on Instagram last night saying that it was like it was one of those clickbaity ones or whatever, but it says like over fifty percent of um neurodivergent entrepreneurs are an entrepreneur because they could never work for anyone else. You know what I mean? And that's why I kind of feel like, well, if you know, because I have put on my own Instagram that there was a long time, probably just before you when you were away, that was really hard on me personally. Um 'cause I didn't have you to bounce off. You know what I mean? Or to talk to? And I just wanted to throw the fucking towel in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know you said that to me, and I said, nah, we'll be right. I'll be right.
SPEAKER_01I just want to throw the fucking towel in. I was like, I can't do this anymore, it's too hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I know. There's there's that's like we said before, there's some long nights, some big conversations, but you know, we're here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know. Anyway, where was I going with this story? Oh, but then I go back to it and I'm like, well what else am I gonna do? I'd be bored as fuck just coaching.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, yeah, same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know? What else am I gonna do? And I can't work for anybody else. Yeah, you can't work for anybody else.
SPEAKER_00You have nothing to work with. I know, sorry.
SPEAKER_01Do you know when I was in my twenties I got fired from so many jobs?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. I've never I've never Never got fired from a job.
SPEAKER_00No. I've only had fucking two jobs.
SPEAKER_01Re this one and a butcher. For real. I've had about ten million.
SPEAKER_00So many. I'm very that's that'll do me and I'll just do that.
SPEAKER_01It's true, you do do the same thing every day.
SPEAKER_00Well it's it's also like, you know, it's the same as PR listing. Like uh when I was I did my apprenticeship as cleanup when I did everything like that, I was like, alright, I wanna manage a butcher, I wanna I wanna, you know, go go to the as far as I can with that, and I did I got fucking moved around, I got promoted, I was a manager looking after people. It got to the point where they were like seeing for one to be state supervised, I was like, no, that's gonna take up way too much time.
SPEAKER_01Nah, and is that was that a wage like a a um desk job as well?
SPEAKER_00Nah, it's a lot of driving around and stuff. But I said nah, I said nah, and within like two months I went, well this is as far as I can get, and I quit. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Same with same with powerlifting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's just I'll keep doing it until I realise I'm as far as I can get, which damn, like a few surgeries in I've Please don't Please knock on wood, man. Um You look fucking strong at the moment though. The interesting thing about that, if we go back to like the last two years of training, is these are the all three years, these are the the last three years have been my best years of training I have ever had.
SPEAKER_01Even better when you went on that tear when you just started at PERV.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, better. Way better.
SPEAKER_01Because it's more consistent.
SPEAKER_00It's just like training wise, I have never been so strong consistently, and I've had surgery twice and toward my adopter, but training wise has been the best it's ever been across the board for that whole three years.
SPEAKER_01Do you think a lot of that's mindset because you're so much more chilled now than you were like three, four years ago?
SPEAKER_00Maybe. I don't know. It's just It just is. It's just good. Like I dun I'm uh yeah, I I wish I could put my finger on it, but I don't know. It's just been great across the board.
SPEAKER_01That's good. The recovery from um being able to eat more would help a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that like a that's been good. Um but like over over in the UK, I was leading up to nationals, I was strong. I was really strong. Like I was like, damn, I'm I'm good for it here.
SPEAKER_01You just gotta not hurt yourself.
SPEAKER_00No, that wasn't my fault. That that was.
SPEAKER_01Shout out Joshua. Please, next time you're benching, make sure you use your safeties.
SPEAKER_00Um but that was unlucky, that was just unfortunate. I can't help that. Um especially at the timing, like after I'd just had my last big squat session, I was like, damn.
SPEAKER_01And you're walking out the door going home.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, literally. Literally out the door. Literally, had to run from the door.
SPEAKER_01Oh well, oh well. It's um yeah. But you know, all those things are learning curves, right? Well, actually that one's not. That's what that one sucked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that sucked. Um same as the adductor was just like out of the blue to start, oh I mean, yeah, I should probably score deeper and train.
SPEAKER_01You were you were still for nationals though, you were gonna do it as 74, so you know, being a little bit bigger now and having a little bit more recovery, you probably sleeping better because you've got more food in your life.
SPEAKER_00I think I'm sleeping better because I'm in Australia.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm not trying to fucking stay up till midnight at least. Every day. Um that's that's been good. Like my sleep's been been pretty good since we've been back. I am a notoriously bad sleeper and it's been relatively good. So that's that's been been I guess a blessing on my recovery. And I've always said that like if I get a good night's sleep, I could do anything. Um yeah, I guess like let's talk about how powerless things changed over the last couple of years as well. Have you noticed anything?
SPEAKER_01Um I think I think definitely uh the overall standard is is going up as per as we know. I think um not only the um lifting athlete standard but the coaching standard has uh in terms of what um you know uh it's just evolved in terms of what people know and what they are doing um with their clients. I also think that people are getting into the sport earlier as well, which I think is a big factor in terms of juniors um coming through. Um in terms of international competition I've been to the last three worlds, I'm not going this year. And the last two Sheffields. I'm just a bit I I gotta get I got a bit sick of the politics at the top.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um to be honest. Uh I got a bit sick of that. I think the Australi in Australia, I think the coaching standard in Australia has improved immensely. Um it's really cool to see uh younger coaches getting out there and doing international competitions. Um I think that um in terms of even though the coaching standard um has improved, the bar to entry is still very, very low uh in terms of anyone can coach their friends. Uh I think that's a big trend um at the moment. But I think in general it's a bit shit that there's nowhere to do competitions in uh Queensland at the moment.
SPEAKER_00Of course. Yeah. Perth.
SPEAKER_01It it's not we yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I guess growth has been good within the sport. Um I guess numbers are all always going up. The hard part, like obviously it's it's been a couple of years now, is the like, you know, the the break-off with the USAPL and Palletting America, you know, us and APU and APA and uh all of that. Kind of just like two steps forward, one step back all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So hopefully that doesn't happen again in any other like largest kind of federation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I think modernised paletting programming is uh w it's I don't know what the next big thing is going to be.
SPEAKER_01Nah.
SPEAKER_00Um, which is cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is cool.
SPEAKER_00I think it's it's like every there's so much information out there now that anyone can you know, as long as you're open-minded enough to be able to think a little bit different to what's what it is, right?
SPEAKER_01You've got to be open-minded enough.
SPEAKER_00But as long as you're open-minded enough to think outside your own biases, um, to be able to try other things, then you you've got to do well. And you know, I I'm you could get strong doing just about anything. Um as long as it sort of makes sense on paper and it makes sense to the art thing, you know, they're bought into what they're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Then I think like, you know, programming-wise, we're at a point now where you know it may change a little bit, someone may come up with something that the kids will do, um and and then you know it's old man, it could work, you know. I mean I I'm here squatting five times a week, like deadlifting four, like bench and six, like I have got that high frequency at the moment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm a big fan of high frequency.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I'm not. Yeah, I know. I don't really program that high frequency. Um I just thought from like I just had no arm. Had to squat every day out, so I would lose my mind, and my squat was really strong. So I was like, well, alright. I'm running, I'm running it.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Why not? You know? Why not? If if if that's fine, then like why not? I've been fucking powerlifting for a long time. The base is massive, why not just run it? And it's working. Working really well. I mean, I've always responded really well to a higher frequency of bench. Yep. Um you know, there I got I gotta really tinker with things a little bit and monitor what's happening because I'll get like I can sit on five is really good, and then when I go up to six I get like this really big speed burst initially and then it can fall apart. Um does that when I bench run 90, um, it happens after like six weeks or something, and then I f I fall back down and I gotta or I get hurt or something. Um so I've got to monitor that, but I was like, well, if that happens, like why not? Why why and I've always responded well to three times squatting, and any time I've done two it felt absolutely dropping. So I was like, well, okay, let's let's do it. But I will say that I don't lean on that from a programming point of view and my own coaching biases.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't. I'm a fan of it. Uh I don't lean on it, that's for sure. Um when I'm saying I'm a fan on it, fan of it, I'm a fan of being able to spread volume out over the week if it's needed. I'm not a fan of chucking a shit ton of volume in two sets.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um that's kind of where I'm at. Um I'm also um doing five day squats a week with Meg at the moment, and one's a safety bar squat. So it's really not that hard, but it's a good little recovery one at the start of the week.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I do have people that I I do program for four or five times squatting, but it's rare.
SPEAKER_01It's not it's not Yeah, it's rare.
SPEAKER_00It's a lower percentile of the people that I work with. Um but in saying that, you know, like I think the thing the big thing about it is with that, there is so many different methods that you can use, and like I said earlier, as long as you're open-minded to it. It's not like more is going to be better all the time, like more, more, more, let's just fucking do more. It's not that's if it makes sense and someone's bought into it, then run it. Um I think someone like Meg, yeah, because like myself, she's been lifting for a very long time, has a massive established base where it's like, okay, we don't need to do these other things. And like to be fair, like I would not get on fucking Pendulum Spot RP10 or something like that.
SPEAKER_01I'd rather just Yeah, you've bled out the accessories, that's what it is. Accessories just become movements.
SPEAKER_00I don't know, I don't really enjoy that. Tom Chapman said to me the other day, he's like, Do you have any leg accession ham shrink? I said, nah.
SPEAKER_01Nah.
SPEAKER_00He goes, Where's your wreck fam? I said, I don't give a shit. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, in terms of like movement and mechanical-wise, like, yeah, it would be good to train that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00However, like I I'm at a point now where I'm battle tested enough, I have enough scars, and I'm getting old. Like, is this is what I want to run to see if I can Yeah. And I'm getting old. Get I'm getting on. Let let's see if it it can bring back, I suppose, what I'd have before, and I mean I feel good. Uh I feel recovered. So let's just see what happens. That's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_01Tell tell everyone how much you weigh.
SPEAKER_00Um I think also going on with like the the modernised powerlifting programming in the way that like we have so many different um but the way that people pace things and talk about pacing and how you're right, like you're running week to week and like you know, block length and you know uh primer or you know, all of all of these sorts of things is what I mean is like there are so many different things that you can use that people have spoken about now that as if if you think it can work, it probably can.
SPEAKER_01As long as as long as you're still ob obeying the fundamentals of intensity and volume. Yeah. That's it. Anything can work as long as the intensity and the volume is looked after over a week and throughout a block. Nothing will work if those two vario variables are not looked after.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think a big thing too is a progressive overload's still a thing.
SPEAKER_01100%.
SPEAKER_00But like Fucking Oath. Yeah, it it is is the beast driver, right? Um, and then, you know, for for getting stronger, everything, right? And then um I think like with that and all these different uh I guess systems and methods that people have spoken about and used is like I love how creative I can be at times. With programming, like I I and that's that's something that I've I've always fell back on is how I can do something by the way, pulling something from here or from here, because I'm obviously a big fan of powerlifting, right? And I I digest a lot of information.
SPEAKER_01Where are you getting your information from at the moment?
SPEAKER_00Uh everywhere. There's that much out there now that it's just literally everywhere. And I like pull something from here or from here, and then I like like four different sorts of things that people have spoken about what they're doing, and put that in one program, and I'm just like, yeah, that that's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, and letting go of biases.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, letting go of biases is huge. Like, you know, I've said to you, like, there's there's big coaching companies out there that I would never touch. Like, I would I just wouldn't because I know that it's a bit too robotic for me. Whereas I love the creative. I also like I'm I'm I'm someone I don't know if I would enjoy coaching. Like I don't know how Sean's put up with me for so long.
SPEAKER_01Like I you pro Sean probably enjoys coaching you as much as you love working with me. I would say it's a love-hate relationship there, Stephen.
SPEAKER_00Like, we'll get to um what happened this week. It's like it's it's week one, and you know, my biggest bench at the last block was 170, and I took 175. What what is that? Am I gonna get weaker because I did that?
SPEAKER_02Nah.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what I mean? Like am I going to get weaker because I took more than what I did in week four last block? No, I'm not. Like, yeah, the block may suffer a little bit, but in the grand scheme of things, I wanted to do that, so I did it. And I'm not going to get weaker. So you're not gonna get weaker. I I'm at that point in my career of powerlifting right now where if I don't have a competition that's within like, you know, ten weeks or something like that, I'm gonna do kind of what I want that's on paper in front of me that I feel on that day, if doesn't matter what week I am in a block, doesn't matter if it's a secondary, primary, I don't care about the labels, I'm just gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01You're not the o I I coach people like that. It doesn't bother me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it yeah, it does it is like it can be hard hard to tell uh from a coaching point of view, I guess from a predictability standpoint, but if someone would ask me, like, how how would you make yourself strong next Thursday, for example, I know how I would do that because I've been training for so long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. He probably just needs to he probably just looks at his phone and look, watches your shit, you but you wouldn't send anything. And goes this fucking idiot.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't think it's like that. It's just uh from a predictability point of view, like predictability is great. Yeah, but you don't need predictability all the time.
SPEAKER_01Only in the last few weeks and the last few days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's good to it's good to have a system to create some sort of predictability, but if you attach everything to that, and like I said, I'm not a robot, I like to enjoy my training, and if you know, if you enjoy it that that level of predictability, and you know, if that's how you feel like you're going to progress further, then that's completely fine. There's nothing against that.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all. Some people need the predictability too. Yeah, well. Some people it has to be predictable because if it's not, it falls off a cliff, or you know, uh some people when you prescribe to they like that predictability of you prescribing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure, 100%.
SPEAKER_01And other people don't, but in terms of like uh I guess w where we're going down now is things that we don't believe in anymore. I don't believe that I need the competition day to be on the competition day for someone to perform.
SPEAKER_00I think that's dependent. Yep. I think that's dependent on how the actual week is structured.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um if you're going to land it on a week four, no taper, then I think it kind of does.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. If and it doesn't I'm not saying this for everyone, it's not a blanket statement. I'm just saying I don't need it.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes. I I think in that scenario it's it's individual to the to the point of like where where like okay, uh how are you getting to the platform?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You sitting up you get a bit invested in the cycle.
SPEAKER_02I'm this is my thinking phase.
SPEAKER_00We started talking about powerlifting. No, I think I think as I said, like it it is still individu- programming and powerlifting is still extremely individualised because people I think that is one thing that shouldn't change, but individualised has levels.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um sorry, it can't it came across as me saying a blanket statement for everybody everyone there. I I uh it's individualized based on the person, right? So if you're setting up your microbe or whatever, and you've got two hard days in the week of squatting and I could peek both and taper from wherever I want to. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that yeah, I get I get what you're saying in in that scenario. It's just like I I feel like if you're going to get someone to I guess like peak their week four on the platform.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you'd have to.
SPEAKER_00Then then you need to sort of like figure f like okay, it needs to kind of be around that day or thereabouts, else you're giving bit a bit too much space or not enough.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Um and unless you've practiced that somewhere, uh then yeah.
SPEAKER_01Very true, very true, very true. But yeah, I just um I remember back in like on it must have been like 2022 or whatever. Why when I was posting, I was all about on Instagram I was all about predictability and all about like it has to be like this, and you've got a program like this and like that. Now I'm not so much. It's just whatever is working is working.
SPEAKER_00I mean, this is this is right, this and I say this I've said this to you a few times, right? Like we have um I guess like tears, and I guess I guess well not so much tears, like the way that we think about powerlifting and powerlifting programming, right? And we have all these different sort of I guess like pillars and you know and I would say my strengths, programming, communication, and definitely I definitely don't fall back on technique that often.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um it's not something that I think probably more more mindset psychology is probably one of my my biggest strengths as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and but then underneath that, or for me, uh we also have all the other things that I I've spoken about as being able to rehab technique and all that, and I think everyone should have some sort of basic understanding of that. But at the end of the day, all of it all felt falls under one bigger pillar, and that is get stronger.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00And you can find your own way there through individualism. Yep. And however you do that doesn't matter as long as you're getting stronger.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's that's the biggest the biggest thing is like you can be as creative as you want, but if that person's not getting stronger, then that doesn't matter. You can it can be as predictable as you want, but if you're just predictably weak, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01You predictably did the same thing. This block that you did last block, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00However, the predictability in terms of bad things that can happen is also beneficial because if you if you if you do something and you do it twice, right, then you you know how to veer away from that because it's you won't do it again because then it be does become too predictable in a poor performance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you know how to move away from that. But still, like going back to it, it's it's individualized. And I I think no two like programmes can look similar and they will look similar because regardless of if you say like leave your biases at the door or be open-minded, we still all lean towards things in terms of like structural programming or what we do.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but it's it's very hard to just be like, Oh, I'm gonna throw some stuff at the wall and see what happens because we know what has worked for majority of the people that we work with, but over time it it turns more individualised, right? People are communicating well and or those things are sort of pulling into place, and we know how to do that. But it's like um and I think I like my the deadlift my deadlift um and how I we restructured that last year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Rather than like trying to keep it at the same pace as everything else, because as soon as my squat hits a certain threshold, my deadlift was falling in the bin. I let that be predictably shit for six months until I was like, okay, the only consistent within all of this, because I'd done all of these, you know, these model modernised sort of um thoughts or things that we've that we've cut like heard about over the years, is like, you know, adjusted the pacing, adjusted the secondary, adjusted, you know, the way that the primary would look, adjust like all these things over six blocks, like six whole months, and I went the only thing out of all of these that was the same is that I was shit and I felt good going into it. I felt good going into the last week of my block. And that's because the week before that felt good. So why not just push that week? And that that's how we learnt that by being shit. By being weak and not performing well, we learnt that okay, the week before is probably the week that you can push it. And then it's like, what do you do in competition? If competition falls on like your week four or something, doesn't really matter because like I said before, it's my squat that impedes my deadlift.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if we're going to taper, then I'm going to be fine.
SPEAKER_01Same thing as business. You've got to be shit to realise how to not be shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Sometimes you might end up homeless if you shit for that long.
SPEAKER_01Like terabytes at all right, let's wrap it up.
SPEAKER_00Alrighty.
SPEAKER_01Um alright, well, yeah, we'll probably do a few more of these, I reckon. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01That was enjoyable. Thanks for listening. Um we will continue doing these, I think we're just chat shit and maybe a little bit of powerlifting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Chat shit. Let's call let's call this new podcast chat shit and powerlifting.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00Um, just ripping off your fucking head. Are you gonna try edit that? Are you gonna wait?