107: Retreat Dhamma Talk 2: Sensual Desire (Kama Suka)

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Namo tasabhato rahato samasambodasa Namo Tasabhato Rahato Sama Sambodasa Namo Tasabhato Rhato Sama Sambodasa Retreat Series Dhamma Talk Number Two Every one of us in fact the whole human race everybody loves pleasure and comfort no exception we like to be joyful, happy, excited, satisfied, and so on. There's no exception. We all love pleasure. More in a technical sense, but more with more precision. It is the pleasant feeling. Pleasures come from the pleasant feeling. We all love, enjoy pleasant feeling or pleasure. Since we were born till today, until we die, we will be engaging, wishing, hoping for this pleasure and comfort. That is, we are talking only about the humankind. But as we all know, there are many different rums, but in general we can divide it into sensual ram, the rums of the senses, which include the full lower planes, the full woeful planes, also human planes, and also Deva planes, all the levels of Deva planes. All these Rams are called sensual Ram. They are born, they live and they die with senses. They operate with senses. And every living being in those rums enjoy the sense pleasure. Whether it's celestial beings or human beings of various degrees of situations, animals, birds, fish, insects, every living being enjoy these five senses or five sense pleasure. Reborn, we crave and we die, hoping that it is with us we have it with that sense pleasure. So all these sensual rum enjoy these sense pleasure. And we always try, okay, every time if you look at it, in a very slightest degree to the great degree, okay, knowingly or unknowingly, consciously or unconsciously, we are always striving to get this pleasure or pleasant feeling, to be happy, to be joyous, to be glad, to be excited. All these things we are trying. And we try and we wish we have it. We wish whatever we have, we will not get lucid. We wish what is not there to come in, and we are always driving, striving, working towards that. And eventually we come to believe that pleasure is permanent, or at least we wish it is permanent. We want it to be with us at all times as much as it can. But in reality is it is not permanent. They come and they go. Sometimes it is happy and joyous there, other times sorrows, lamentations, grief and pain. But we try to hide or buried the pain and only think, wish and hope for this sense pleasure, all these sense pleasure. Basically five senses. So we are talking about all the living beings as the sensual realms, altogether eleven of them. But let's focus on what we know, what we can see, feel and touch, the human realm. In this human realm, we live with the five senses. We know the world with this five senses. And through the five senses we have pleasure. All the pleasures come from through this five senses. And of course, once you come through the five senses, it stays in the memory banks, and then we recycle, recirculate, reproduce those memories into the thought form or the thought pleasure. That's all we are doing all the time. But these are not permanent. They come and they go, but we live in a state of illusion as if it is going to be there for us. We try to hold on, we try to grasp on, and most of the human race live in that state, perpetual state of chasing, getting, holding, grasping, wishing for these pleasant feelings. But a few people, a few people, a handful of people, they have a different thought about this sense pleasure. Is that all that is? Is that all the pleasures and the joys and the happiness that we can have which we cannot really hold on? Is there anything better than this pleasure? They question. They question and they search. And when they question and they search, they find, some of them find or found another kind of pleasure. It's called the pleasure of renunciation. The pleasure of renunciation. Because a few people are not satisfied with these five cents pleasure. But 99.999%. They're just happy and they are just chasing blindly these pleasures, but a few try. Not satisfied. They have a little more in-depth into it. This is not permanent. We are always struggling. Is there anything better than this? Is there anything that is more lasting or everlasting kind of pleasure? So in that pursuit, that pleasure of renunciation comes in. So now we have two kinds of pleasure. The first one is the five cents pleasure. Those five sense pleasure is called Lokia Sukka. Okay, this pleasure in Pali is one word, it's called sukkat. Sukha is translated as pleasure or a bliss. Joy, happiness, and so on. There are so many translations, but it's all narrowed down to pleasant feeling of various levels, various kind. So all these five sense pleasure we are called Lokia Suka. Lokia is mundane, suka is pleasure, mundane pleasure. That's the way we defined it, these five sense pleasure. And then under the pursuit of renunciation or the pursuit of some spiritual growth, some people found another pleasure called pleasure of renunciation. And that one is called Lokutra Sukha. Lokutra is ultra mundane, sukkha is pleasure. Pleasure coming from the ultramundane world. The first one is pleasure from the mundane world. And the first one is called pleasure of the five senses. And the second one is renunciation, pleasure of the renounciation. What do you renounce? Okay, pleasure of renunciation. Actually, you renounce the five sense pleasure. That's it. You can interpret, translate, and put into many situations about what renunciation means to be a monk or to be a nun. But in a strict sense, precise sense, you renounce the five sense pleasure. When you renounce the five sense pleasure, you find the pleasure of renunciation or lokudra sukha. So there are two kinds of sukha or two signs of pleasure. One is with the five senses, one is renouncing it. So from that alone you know these two pleasures are not compatible. If one exists, the other cannot exist. If the other exists, the first one cannot exist. Those two pleasure cannot coexist. So that's a fact. That's why if you want a higher kind of pleasure, higher kind of pleasure than the five sense pleasure, the first step is to renounce these five sense pleasure. That's why if you look at step by step, first of all, we practice morality. Five percepts. There's some renounciation of pleasure, and then eight percepts, nine percent, ten precepts. Renunciation, renounciation. Basically, you renounce singing, dancing, perfume, and so on, you know what it all means. And 227, even more so, renouncing. That is the first of all is morality, reframing, and secondly we go to the step of restraint. First of all, restraint. And through that restraint we approach into that renunciation. Step by step you cannot just go cold turkey. But some people can do, but it is logical to do step by step. Refrain, restraint, renounce. Only then you can experience the pleasure of renounciation. Otherwise you can't. So there are five senses. Okay, five sense pleasure. Now to be able to do the renounciation or renounce all the senses, you really must know how to do it properly. Otherwise you can't. You must know the correct method. You must do systematically, methodically. Okay, must not deviate with precision. While you are doing the renunciation, you must be on the path and a practice whether it is perfectly systematically and methodically set up for you to renounce or to uproot it these five cents pleasure from your psyche. Without that you cannot. You must know the way, the method. And in here you practice the sampatiputta, correct practice. And when you do the samhapatipatha, correct practice, you would be able to. Okay, you will be able to face this task. We don't say you succeed, you would be well equipped and you will be able to face this task of renunciation of the five sense pleasure. Why it so seems like serious and important? Because this five sense pleasure is being with you for the uncountable number, infinite number of lives in the past. Every life's uncountable. You cannot even see the beginning. In those lives, whatever kind of realms you are in, you are with this five sense pleasure. So this five sense pleasure is a conditioning factor upon you for a countless number of times. It has an upper hand, it has a total control of you. So much so you can say that it is in your genes. These enjoyment of five sense pleasures in your genes. You are born with that gene, you live with that genes, and you will die with that gene. And that gene has been conditioning by the five sense pleasure for eons and eons of past life. So something is in your gene, it's not easy to get rid of it right away. That's why don't underestimate the power of five senses. Now we have the sampatipata, the right practice. And if you look at it now, you are ready to face and you are take on this. Okay, not underestimating the power of the five senses. Let's look at five senses in a little different angle from a different angle. What are these five senses? These five senses are the one that gives you pleasure. This pleasure is called, more precise if you want it, is called karma. Sukha, not karma, k a m. This one is karma k-a-m-a. Kama is sensus, sukkha is pleasure. Okay? Pleasure of the senses in Pali Kama Sukha. So these karma sukkha, what is karma sukkha? If you want to know a little more in depth with clarity, karma sukkha, this sense pleasure has two aspects. Okay, the first aspect is objects. You can call it objects or material objects, which you can see, which you can hear, which you can smell, taste, touch, and expand your mind. These are the objects. In other words, objects of desire, beautiful objects, pleasant objects, desirable objects. Objects that can give you pleasant feeling. That's one. Simply an object. So these are the objects that can give you sensuality. That's one. Another one is the desire. The desire or lust. That is another one. There were two different things. The first one is the actual object, external object that is beautiful, pleasant, smells good, and so on. Where most people chase to feel it, to see it, to touch it, to own it, to hold it. That's the object. Second one is simply a mental state. It's called desire or raga. Raga for what? Sense desire. That is a mental. The first one is physical, the second one is mental. So when these two phenomena, material phenomena, the objects of desire, and number two, mental phenomena, the desire, raga or lust itself. Lust for these kinds of objects. There are two aspects. When these two aspects come in touch together, at that moment you have the sense pleasure, karma bhumi. So sense pleasure has two aspects. One is the object material aspect, another one is the raga or lust, the mental aspect. And these two phenomena come in touch. At that moment you have sense pleasure. Now you know sense pleasure in a little more detailed way that how it arrives, what is needed, how it's come to be. So you have these things and you have the sense pleasure. So if you look at it, sense pleasure, okay, there is a word called raga lust or desire involved. What is this raga, lust, desire? And another word that you or we commonly known as. Raga. Another word for raga is called lobha. We all know this word so often we don't even want to hear about it. Lobha is greed. Greed, craving, clinging, grasping, attachment. That is loba. So in a way, this raga or the sense desire is lobha. And what is lobha? Lobha is you want these desirable objects, beautiful objects, attractive objects. You want it. So lobba is there and the object is there, and you want it, you want it, you want it. You want to own it, you want to have it. That's called lobba. Whenever you come in touch with these desirable objects, everybody wants it because those give you pleasant feeling. Kama Sukha. Pleasant feeling. Very simple. So it's loba. But at the same time, can we get these objects at our will, at our desire instantly with a flip of a finger? The answer is no. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't get it. And whenever you don't get it, what happens? Dissatisfaction arises. Frustration, irritation arises, anger, aversion arises, even hate, whatever is standing on the way of getting it arises. See, just a little sense desire produces you loba and the other one is dosa. The same thing. When you get it, happy, this little pleasure. When you don't get it, you're angry. And then also what? Once you own it, you live with the anxiety. Anxiety so that you won't lose it. You're afraid that you might lose it. And you're always in a state of anxiety and worry. On the surface, you say, okay, but you are always, always trying and maintaining and protecting that little pleasurable object, the object that's giving you pleasure not to lose, not to get away.

unknown 23:38

See?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Anxiety and worry always is there. What is this anxiety and worry dosa? See? This little simple kama sukkha sense pleasure is producing this loba and dosa. Greed and anger in general terms. So if you look at it, you are in a state of greed and anger whenever you are enjoying or chasing or protecting this sense pleasure. And also, while you are protecting and chasing this thing, or being angry, loba and dosa, why do you do? Because you think this pleasure is great, this pleasure is fantastic, this pleasure gives me happiness and joy. This pleasure gives me excitement. That is how you think. And you think that it is permanent, or at least you hope it is permanent and you wish it is permanent. In other words, you have it all the time. That kind of mental state is there. What is that mental state? You are in a state of delusion, deluded state. Thinking what is not as is. Thinking what is not as is. That is moha. So we call it sense pleasure, okay, the pleasure of the senses, which we love and which we say so much. But now you can see we can call the sense pleasure in a different way, different terms. What? Loba dosa and moha. What is in one word? Kilesa. And one word is kilesa, mental defilement. So sense pleasure is mental defilements. Mental defilement is sense pleasure. That mental defilement, loba dosa moha, kilesa, is driving you, is pushing you to go on and to go on and on. Countless number of lives in the past and it will keep on driving you. That vehicle will keep on driving you for countless number of lives in future. It's an endless circle of birth and death. With what? With this mental defilement, Kilesa. What is that? That is sense pleasure. So that much, it is power, mental defilements. It is with you, and right in this life, you know this three driving engine, Loba, Dosa, and Moha is directing you to every corner of the road you are driving. Every part of the road you are driving, driving with these three engines and with the full fuel. What's the fuel? Sense pleasure. What's the engine? Loba, dosa and moha. It's on and on and on. That much powerful. Okay, that's why don't underestimate the power of sense pleasure. We think, okay, we take precepts, we go to retreat and finish. Pretty soon they were all gone and got enlightened. Not as easy as I thought if you look at, you know, systematically how it comes to be, what are the causes and what are the effects and how long a time it is being conditioning you like for eternity. So do not take it lightly. And now you know how they come to be. And you know it can be called a different word, use a different word. Instead of sense pleasure, it is mental defilements. Now you see why it is so powerful. So to be able to resist it, to be able to counteract it, okay, to renounce it as we start, to renounce what? Sense pleasure. Why do we want to renounce? Because we want to have a superior type of pleasure. What is that? Pleasure of renunciation. Lokotra sukkat, ultramanding pleasure. That's why we are doing it. And to do that, you must be able to know how the sense pleasure works and how they are conditioning you. When you know that it is easier to fight. Now you know the cause, you know the effect, how it works, its process. That's number one. Number two, you know how to be on the method or the system to eliminate or to fight. What is that? Samaapatipata, the right practice to push back, to hold back, and eventually to take over their space. And what is that? That is what we are practicing. Satipattana. vipassana full foundation of mindfulness as a tool in practicing vipassana insight. Only with that practice you will be able to push back. You will be able to hold and you will be able to conquer a space where there is no mental defilements. We know how it works, we know what to do now. And when we do that you must do that with respect. First of all, respect means you are not take it lightly you are not to get it superficially. Ah I will do when I want not that it is respectfully and seriously with respect and with seriousness. In other words with commitment you have to use that method the system with seriousness only then you would be able to do what you want which is to get the pleasure of renunciation. Now you have the seriousness and respect is that all no after that you that's a determination commitment and then it has to be applied forcefully with effort. You have to now diligently do the work of the practice and when you do the diligence work of this samabatiputta the correct practice what happens is you will come across called path and fruition path and fruition sukkat in other words you have passed over the mundane world and you step into the ultra mundane world that is called mega mega is part meganyana part wisdom part wisdom will cut off the ordinary lineage and take you to the other side which is ultra mundane side locodra side and with that consciousness or part wisdom okay there are various level various type of course and the first level the first ring winner path consciousness it eliminates it uprooted a certain kind of mental defilements the gross form of mental defilements what are the mental defilements loba dosa and moha what is loba dosa and moha sense pleasure in other words at the first level of the pop consciousness you have totally uprooted the gross form of sense pleasure you have no interest in it anymore and that path consciousness of part wisdom once you have attained it okay there's a result the result is called fruition in other words the pleasure of being the first noble person the pleasure the first noble person enjoys that the fruition is the fruit fruition you have the pleasure of the first noble person you can enjoy that why do you think you can enjoy that pleasure because you have eliminated the gross form of all the sense pleasure directly related now one needs to understand all the sense pleasure all the five sense pleasure or the mundane one they are actually feelings and sensation vidana vidana those pleasures are all with feelings and sensation vidana sukkha vidana which is pleasant sensation dukkha vidana unpleasant sensation and neutral sensation upaka widana actually up is as it has no stress upon you it can be and it is considered a sukha if you want to put into two that kind of thing as you have abandoned or renounced the gross form of pleasure you can enjoy the pleasure of the of the first noble person and in those pleasures they are not feelings and sensation it's not of the senses it's not of the senses that one one needs to understand and then you keep on renouncing you keep on renouncing all these pleasures and then you are renouncing the medium levels all the medium levels of pleasure you have totally succeeded in uprooting all the medium form of pleasure and then you reach to the second noble person in other words another part sagadakami magat another consciousness and that consciousness as soon as you experience that consciousness or that wisdom it's totally uprooted like it is my words all the medium form of pleasures are totally uprooted they never come to be and you don't you have no interest into the medium form of pleasure because of that at that level there's because of the path wisdom there's a corresponding pleasure called palat sagadakami palat you can enjoy that far superior than the first I simply use the word pleasure pleasure pleasure sukha sukkha sukha because I want this the theme to be pleasure it's a different kind of pleasure and in here too it is direct correlation you have a superior kind of pleasure pleasure of the second noble person because you have renounced you have uprooted the gross form and the medium form of all pleasures and then of course you are on the path you keep on practicing with what? With diligence with effort and then you got to the third level the third level is at that moment you have uprooted all form of anger anger and aversion in other words whatever things you lose or you lost or you cannot have nothing could rocks you nothing to make you angry you can simply let go if you don't have it you don't have it and in here no loss can create any form of dissatisfaction or anger in you in this third level and at that time also the sense pleasure even the the most refined except a few the most refined are also uprooted you have no interest no desire for these kind of pleasure anymore so which means anagami mega which is the the third part consciousness or the third part wisdom and once you experience that wisdom you totally uprooted all those growth medium and very fine and also dosa dosha is aversion arising from the loss of this pleasure or worry and anxiety of losing this pleasure no more you can let go completely only a few left what is left is the pride the pride in yourself the pride in your practice still holding on that little pride mana conceit okay the pride of your achievement is still there and still there's a trace of holding on to the existent holding on to life can't give up the life yet existing yet those two those are the only two traces left in this third level and because of that you have renounces about 99.999% of the sense pleasure and you have the pleasure of nait once returner non-returner nagami and that is supreme and then you keep up the practice and you keep up the diligence and then you go to the final stage arahata mega and arahata mega what happened was you have uprooted everything with the arahata mega part consciousness of a arahan okay the final release when you have that you have totally uprooted and eliminated all sense pleasure in other words you have totally uprooted all mental defilements normal enjoyment or delight or interest of any form of sense pleasure at that level at that moment you got the supreme pleasure supreme pleasure what is that supreme pleasure by name it is called nibbana you have the supreme pleasure of nibbana the word is called santi sukkat santi sukkha sukkha is pleasure santi supremate santi sukkha and all these pleasure okay once you go to this ultramundane world they are not about senses anymore there's no sense no vibration no feelings not the way we feel because as soon as you step over to that boundary you have overwhelmed all Vedana all the feeling and sensation pleasant feeling unpleasant feeling and neutral feeling you have overcome it so in those level it's not about the feeling feeling good feeling happy feeling joyous feeling excited nothing it's all about a feeling like a release from a big weight that is being pushing you down okay and so one ton of weight pressing you down and suddenly that has been released that kind of a situation that kind of a pleasure all burden has been released the burden of this body the physical body we carry and the burden of the mind that we carry thinking that so long that burden of the body mind is being totally lifted and at that moment you experience the Santi Sukha Supreme Pleasure of Nibana so that is all pleasure pleasure pleasure of course we started from the five sense pleasure but know that there is a superior kind of pleasure beyond the five sense pleasure or lotar sukha ultramundane pleasure among all those things the highest form of pleasure is called Santi Sukha Nibana so may all of you be able to understand this five sense pleasure properly correctly and know the way how to renounce it and may you attain supreme pleasure santi sukkha as soon as possible sadu sadhu sadhu buddham buchemi thank you very much