Beyond the Bull Catalogue: What every rancher needs to know

When it comes to choosing the right herd bull, should you prioritize size, milk production, or fertility? 

In this episode of The Bovine, Kara Mastel sits down with Dr. Carling Matejka, a veterinarian with Agri Health Services, to break down the science and strategy behind herd bull selection. 

Carling explains why optimization—not maximization—is the key to a profitable and sustainable herd, highlighting factors like mature cow body weight, expected progeny differences (EPDs), and scrotal circumference.  

Listen For:

04:26 EPDs 101: Predicting a bull’s genetic potential
11:28 How breed associations help with bull selection
17:18 Lessons from the dairy industry on milk vs. fertility
26:16 Why breeding soundness exams are crucial
30:02 Expert tips for bull sale day

GUEST: Carling Matejka, DVM

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Chapters

• 4:26 EPDs 101: Predicting a Bull’s Genetic Potential
• 11:28 How Breed Associations Help with Bull Selection
• 26:16 Why Breeding Soundness Exams Are Crucial
• 30:12 Expert Tips for Bull Sale Day

Transcript

Carling Matejka (00:02):

Maybe once you pull them out from the breeding herd, getting them a little bit of extra condition for winter is just fine. But then we really want them in tip top perfect body condition score to head into that breeding season.

Kara Mastel (00:26):

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Bovine podcast. I'm your host Kara Mastel, and as always, I'm happy you're here as we come in the several consecutive drought years. I mean, I don't have to tell you guys that and dive into the thick of bull sales season. Some producers might be considering rebuilding their herds or perhaps they're simply wondering how do you find a balanced herd bull? There are many factors we're considering here, and to help us navigate some of these questions and considerations we have Dr. Carling Matejka, a veterinarian Agri Health Services. Joining us today. Carly was raised on a hundred year old red and black Angus seed stock operation just outside of Ponoka, Alberta. From a young age, her work with animals ignited a passion that shaped her career aspirations, driven by a desire to advocate for farmers and the cattle they care for.

(01:21):

She dedicated herself to becoming a veterinarian. Carly worked in a mixed animal practice for six years, but her love for cattle led her to transition to VAHS. Here she leverages her knowledge and passion to make a meaningful impact on the health and sustainability of the Canadian beef industry. Carlin is deeply committed to fostering the next generation of agricultural leaders, volunteering with four H Junior livestock programs and mentoring veterinary students. In 2020, she was chosen by the Canadian Agriculture Minister to join the inaugural Canadian Agriculture Youth Council, where she contributed insights on policies and programs impacting the agriculture and AgriFood sectors. Additionally, in 2022, she was selected as a Canadian cattle young leader gaining valuable experience within the cattle industry. In 2023, she received the Red Shellen Next Generation Legacy Award. Carling, thanks for joining me here today. How's it going?

Carling Matejka (02:20):

Oh, it's very good. We're just waiting for the weather to warm up here. Excited for the

Kara Mastel (02:24):

Upcoming forecast. Absolutely, and thanks for joining us on the bovine today. We're excited to have you as a guest.

Carling Matejka (02:31):

I'm excited to be here.

Kara Mastel (02:33):

So we're going to dive a bit into, we're in bull season where you're starting to see all the sales coming up and you're starting to make your selections for the year. Do you want to start by talking about the difference between, can you explain the difference between optimization and maximization in the context of cattle breeding?

Carling Matejka (02:56):

Yeah, definitely. So they're pretty simple terms. Maximization focuses on increasing one single trait within your herd, whereas optimization is going to balance multiple of those traits to achieve a more sustainable and efficient herd overall.

Kara Mastel (03:19):

So why is it important to keep mature cow body weight in check when selecting a herd bull?

Carling Matejka (03:25):

Good question. So I think it's pretty simple. When we're looking at mature cow body weight, this is going to mean it's a larger cow. And what do larger cows need? More feed. So if you're selecting for a larger frame, this is going to reduce your overall herd efficiency and increase your feed costs. What we've really seen over the last decade is that mature weights have increased by about 150 pounds and well, let's be honest, that feed has to come from somewhere, so that is going to increase your overall cost into that cow. So when we're trying to select bulls, we kind of want to look for a more moderate mature weight EPD when we're looking to retain females in the herd.

Kara Mastel (04:15):

So let's take a quick step back here. EPDs expected progeny differences. Do you want to talk about what they are? Just to take a quick step back?

Carling Matejka (04:26):

Yeah, I should have explained that. So expected progeny differences help to predict how a bull's offspring will perform in specific traits, and this is based on their parents as well as their sis and dams progeny. So it gives us a little bit of a better idea of what to expect when we're picking these bulls based off of numbers and data.

Kara Mastel (04:55):

So EPDs would be your primary, that would be the thing you would look at when selecting bulls?

Carling Matejka (05:00):

Yeah, we still want to take into what that bull looks like into account, but primarily when we're just looking at the bull catalog is the number one thing that we're looking towards.

Kara Mastel (05:13):

And like you said, that helps predict the genetic potential.

Carling Matejka (05:17):

Yeah, exactly. So there's usually a few different things that are in the bowl catalog, birth weight, weaning weights, sling weights, calving milk is often in there, sometimes scrotal circumference, and those are things that we're going to be able to use as producers that we can pick out that align with our farm goals to make sure that that bull is going to optimize our production in our farm.

Kara Mastel (05:45):

So when you're looking through the catalog, does phenotypes still matter? Why should we be looking beyond just the EPDs?

Carling Matejka (05:55):

Yeah, phenotype definitely still matters. EBDs are such a good prediction, but you still have to look at them like a weather forecast. So while the weather is predicting that things are going to be nice and warm and balmy for the next couple weeks, typical Alberta weather, that can throw a curve ball in and we can get some dump of snow or bad storm EPDs are very similar to that, so they're going to give us a prediction, but that prediction is not always guaranteed or a hundred percent. So phenotype is still super important because we want to make sure that that bull is going to be able to have a big enough frame to mount our cows isn't going to be too large, that maybe we have a more moderately framed herd that could hurt our cows, assessing proper structure, confirmation, overall health, body condition, score feet, these are all things that you're going to want to make sure that you still look at because they're things that EPDs aren't necessarily going to be able to tell us.

Kara Mastel (07:00):

Absolutely, and I don't know if this is a off question or not, but so I am scrolling my Facebook, my Instagram feeds, and you assume that most pictures you're seeing have been edited to some sort. Is this something you take in consideration when going through a bull catalog as well? Absolutely. So when we're looking at average mature weight of cattle, how has it changed over the last 50 years? Is it different than it was 50 years ago?

Carling Matejka (08:14):

We've really put pressure on increased size because we want those larger weaning weights. We want those larger yearling weights. So mature weight has the data shows that it's increased around 150 pounds over the last 50 years because we've put such heavy pressure on selection for growth and milk production. And again, what I talked about earlier is this larger mature cow size and weight is most likely going to lead to higher feed costs. So when you're balancing that with the weaning weight of your calves, is that balancing out on the balance? Is it really making sense economically?

Kara Mastel (08:58):

And of course you're going to pay attention to breeds, and I'm not here to say one breed is better than the other, but how do different breeds vary in their growth, mature weights?

Carling Matejka (09:08):

So they definitely, I'm sure that any producer can understand that or just see that different breeds look very different. Typically if we talk about the main breeds that we see or the ones that are a little bit more popular in the industry, Angus are going to be earlier maturing. They're a little bit, there's been more of a focus on a moderate size. Dermatol on the other hand are generally larger framed with this larger frame. They're later maturing, and Hereford is kind of a moderate size, moderate maturing. So each breed has different growth patterns, and with those growth patterns, they're going to lead to different ages of maturity since we see typically a puberty hidden animal, once they're 60% of their mature body weight, that frame size can definitely affect when they actually mature.

Kara Mastel (10:05):

So are there any misconceptions when you're looking at frame size or you're looking at any of these physical traits you can see with your eyes? Are there any common misconceptions about maximizing these traits in cattle breeding?

Carling Matejka (10:17):

Oh, there definitely is. I'd say that the biggest one that we see the most is that bigger is always better, and that's definitely not the case. So just because a bull has the biggest scrotal size, that doesn't mean that he's going to be the most fertile bull or because the cow has the largest frame and you're looking to retain heifers in your herd, that probably isn't going to be the most effective EPD to focus on. Along with that, I think that there's been a focus on that maximizing individual traits leads to higher profitability, and this is not the case. So for example, if your only focus is on weaning weights, which is going to be great, when you get paid up the end, we are going to lose in other departments. So you might end up losing things like fertility, increased feed costs, longevity, things like that.

(11:20):

So overall, it really shows that we have to have a balanced repertoire of EPDs when we're looking at a bull. I think the other one that we hear often is that when you're picking a bull, they need to have a perfect score in all traits, and that's definitely not true. For the most part, you're not going to be able to ever get a bowl that's both maternal and terminal. They're going to excel in one of those departments. So when farmers go to pick a bull, you need to focus on what are your goals? Are you looking for a terminal sire? Are you looking for a maternal sire? And then focus on those. Don't try to find something that's perfect across the board.

Kara Mastel (12:06):

Breed associations play a role here.

Carling Matejka (12:08):

Yeah, definitely they do. So breed associations have been great for collecting this data. They are amazing because they provide the full EPDs and the genetic trend reports on their website. This allows producers to see what's beyond the bull sail catalog, like I talked about earlier, that full sail catalogs will just often promote a few of the EPDs producers can go online and see the whole full set of EPDs so that if they're looking for different traits that align better with their herd, they can see maybe where this bowl really excels or potentially falls apart.

Kara Mastel (12:51):

Have you seen any real success stories when it comes to optimization that has improved profitability as well as sustainability that kind of like you said, hits all those marks but maybe doesn't focus on the biggest best bull out there?

Carling Matejka (13:09):

Yeah, Kara, so there's so many success stories. Once people can understand how to use these numbers, I think that any amount of knowledge in being able to achieve your goal is a success story. I don't think I have a very particular story that's exciting to tell you, but I'd say overall the biggest success that I see is that herds that are able to pick out their cows that they know they want to retain females from, and they can pick out their cows that they know are maybe a little bit more suited for those high weaning weights that they want to sell their calves and separating them out and using bulls that align with what their long-term goal is. So picking maternal bulls for those cows, they want to retain heifers in and picking terminal sires for those cows that they know they're going to ship those calves off at weaning or yearling weights or even if they keep them all the way and sell them straight to the slaughterhouse.

Kara Mastel (14:15):

Absolutely. Okay. So I want to shift gears a little bit here and focus on milk production and its implications. You talked a bit about how we sometimes, if we look at heavier weaning weights or lighter weaning weights, it impacts milk production. Do you want to talk about how that selection has changed over the years?

Carling Matejka (14:38):

Yeah, so as we've focused on a bigger weaning weight, we've also increased milk EPDs along with that, or I guess milk production along with that. And the reason for this is because a milk EPD is a little bit confusing is how it's defined, but it's defined as the additional pounds of weaning weight a bull's daughters will contribute to their calves through milk production. So you can see how as weaning weight increases, this probably means that milk production is going to increase to be able to give that calf the extra pounds that it needs for weaning. The problem with this is, as we've seen milk production increase, it can be really hard on that cow because she's producing more milk, she needs more energy. So increased milk production leads to increased speed requirements and increased speed costs. Along with that, because the body is more metabolically active producing milk and its focus is on producing milk, we see it really drop off or have some potential for fertility issues. The body is so focused on that milk production that it kind of puts cycling on the back burner. And so we can see some of these really high producing milk cows or high milk EPD cows have issues getting rebred when they're lactating.

Kara Mastel (16:15):

And what about, like you mentioned that it can, obviously, it can really take a toll on the cow too. What about when they're in really rugged environments, they're in extreme temperatures or extreme situations, should you avoid excessive milk production there too?

Carling Matejka (16:32):

Yeah, absolutely. So there's such a balance for this, and I wish I had a really simple answer for everything, but it's always everything's give take. So when a cow is put in a more rugged environment, which cows should be able to survive in a rugged environment, if they don't have the energy requirements in that environment, they're still going to, their body is still designed to focus on milk production, so they're really going to deplete their resources and that's going to make it even harder for them to get pregnant in the future. If the resources are really, really slim, then you're going to also see her decrease in milk production, and that's going to eventually correlate to a decreased overall weaning weight in your crop of calves. So now you have a cow with higher milk production that's not able to maintain her resources at the end of her lactating period. You have a skinny cow and a below average calf crop, and I know for sure that's not something that we want.

Kara Mastel (17:42):

No, absolutely. Now, I don't want to get too sidetracked here, but are there comparisons in the dairy industry when we look at milk production in beef cattle, and are there any lessons we can learn from that?

Carling Matejka (17:58):

Yeah. Oh man, there definitely is. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the dairy industry, but I think that when it comes to some of the genetic problems that we've seen, we can definitely extrapolate information from over there. So as we know, dairy cows have exceptional milk production, and it really shows that if you maximize one trait you're going to lose in others. So whether that's fertility, mammary support, feed efficiency, if we focus on milk or one trait, there's other things that are going to fall off the cliff. So I'm sure lots of us know that the dairy industry's conception rates aren't perfect. So they've definitely increased over the last couple of years as they've put a less of an emphasis on milk production as being their only primary, but it's still not unheard of IA conception rates, sorry, AI conception rates to be sitting around 40 to 50%, and that's because they're putting such a metabolic demand for milk that the body is tired and just can't put that emphasis on fertility.

Kara Mastel (19:16):

So in the long term, how do you make that balance? I guess like you said, there's no direct answer there, but how do you choose, okay, do I want really high fertility, do I want really high milk production? Where do I do that? Give and take?

Carling Matejka (19:34):

Yeah, tough. I think that focusing on moderation is probably going to be key. So not focusing on a maximization of any particular trait, but finding the bowls that are a moderate number across the board. So I kind of mentioned you're not going to find a bowl that maximizes everything, but finding something that's pretty good or average across the board is something that you're going to be really happy with because whether those cows are put in really tough conditions, or maybe we have a really great year and have lots of feed, they're going to be able to thrive no matter what with that, it still also really depends on your goals. So if you are always selling all of your calves at weaning, still putting a little bit more emphasis on that weaning weight is going to be okay, but looking towards that milk production just to make sure it's still in a moderate range. If you're keeping things till yearlings, then obviously you're going to want to look a little bit more at that yearling weight. And if you're only retaining females, then you're going to look at those traits a little bit more. But I think moral of the story is that comes back to that optimization versus maximization. So finding something, finding a bull that's balanced across all the numbers and not just focusing on one of those traits

Kara Mastel (21:03):

And really deciding, like you said, what you as an operation are looking for and what your goals are.

Carling Matejka (21:10):

Oh, absolutely. And I think that's where it gets really confusing is if you don't have a goal, it's going to be really difficult to find a bowl that meets your needs, but if you have a goal and can pick out a bowl that matches that, it's going to be much better in the long run.

Kara Mastel (21:29):

So of course we have to talk about it scrotal circumference. It's an important trait to consider. Like you said, sometimes we pay too much attention to it, but do you want to talk about why it is important to look at the scrotal circumference as well?

Carling Matejka (21:46):

Yeah, so scrotal circumference is very highly hearable, so it's easy to see this trait influence through selection. The other really good thing about larger scrotal circumferences, it is correlated with higher fertility. So typically we do see bulls that are a larger size, they're able to service more cows. This does kind of have a maximum point, and I don't know if what that number exactly is, but as long as they're above average, they have the ability to service the number of cows that you need. The other thing with that is it also correlates larger. Scrotal size also correlates to earlier puberty and offspring, so that's also going to translate into your female herd. So you will see your heifer cycling a little bit sooner than what you would see with a bull that has a smaller scrotal size

Kara Mastel (22:50):

Body condition score. How can it be used as a proxy for scrotal fat and overhaul bull health?

Carling Matejka (22:56):

The scrotum likes to keep fat in it. So when a bull is over conditioned, you will see scrotal size to increase. The problem with this is that the fat in the scrotum actually acts as an insulator, and that can damage sperm quality. So the reason the testicles are on out the outside of the body is so that they stay cooler because they can't be the exact body temperature that protects the sperm, but if we shove a bunch of extra fat in there, that can actually damage the sperm so it can decrease fertility. When we're looking at bulls, we want them to be a body condition score of about three to three and a half out of five at their breeding soundness, and that's going to tell us that there probably isn't a lot of scrotal fat in that scrotum and that their scrotal circumference is truly the size that it's measured to beat, because what we can see is over conditioned bulls, so maybe bulls that are a five out of five, they got a lot of extra feet, then someone buys them, they go on into pasture, they lose a bunch of weight, and a comic complaint is that their scrotal size has decreased.

(24:16):

And it's not that the actual testicles have decreased in size, it's just that they lost that fat that was artificially inflating their scrotal circumference.

Kara Mastel (24:25):

So how do you differentiate between that? How do you look at the scrotal size and go, okay, yeah, this is true genetic, or this is the true potential of it versus this is obviously

Carling Matejka (24:41):

Artificially inflated. So looking at their body condition score. So there's lots of different templates online where it shows you how to evaluate a body condition score, what to look for. So when you're out there selecting a both, see if you think that he's a five out of five versus a three out of five, because five out of five bulls are going to have larger scrotal circumference scores just based off of fat alone. The other thing that you can look towards is their breeding soundness evaluations. So veterinarians, when they examine the bulls, they'll have a body condition score on there. And then finally, I think the other thing to ask or question about would be ask the seller what the conditions were like the bull was raised in. If he was raised on a higher forage diet, then yeah, it's probably more likely to be true genetic potential. But if he was raised in a feedlot on a high energy diet, then that could definitely be an artificially inflated measurement.

Kara Mastel (25:46):

And you mentioned veterinarians giving scores as well. Can you call up a veterinarian and say, Hey, I would like an evaluation on this bull?

Carling Matejka (25:57):

Yeah, that's like most of our springtime calls is we're semen testing a lot of bulls. So things that we look for when we're semen testing, we're making sure that bull is sound, that there's no abnormalities and feet, legs that use a good body condition score. We're able to palpate the testicles or feel them to see if there's any sort of change in size between the two testicles, change in firmness between them. We're able to evaluate their sex glands to make sure that there's no signs of infection, and then we're able to actually look at that bull semen and sperm to make sure that there is an adequate amount, they're moving correctly, and that there's not abnormalities in that sperm that's going to make it difficult for the sperm to penetrate the egg.

Kara Mastel (26:56):

So do you typically recommend palpating testicles and resting bulls before you get into breeding season?

Carling Matejka (27:02):

Yeah, absolutely. So palpating testicles can give us a lot of information not only in palpating them to see if there's been some shrinkage of one testicle or change in texture, which could give us some indication. Is there an infection or was there trauma? But then also measuring the scrotal circumference to see if there's been change in size. Changes in size can also tell us that there probably was some trauma or infection at some point, or some still going on with a breeding sound. This exam and palpating the testicles, it's going to help us identify sperm quality issues that can arise at any time in a bull's life. What we have to remember though is that when a bull ejaculates that sperm was made 60 days ago, even though he looks just fine now to send out, did he have something happen 60 days ago that isn't going to actually make him fine to breed cows?

Kara Mastel (28:05):

Yeah, very good point. Looking back, not just looking what's right in front of you.

Carling Matejka (28:11):

Exactly.

Kara Mastel (28:13):

So do you have any examples of when over conditioning has maybe negatively impacted bull performance or I guess longevity too? It's great for a year, but maybe not for five.

Carling Matejka (28:28):

Yeah, over conditioning is definitely has an effect on long-term performance. So like we've mentioned, it's going to reduce the semen quality because of the excess scrotal fat. So increasing that temperature, providing extra insulation can damage the sperm. I also find that over conditioned bulls are a little bit lazy, so we can see that they, some of them, not all, don't get me wrong, not all of them, but some of them can have a decreased libido. They'll get up and breed one cow, then they're tired and they'll go lay down, and then maybe they'll go sniff another one, but they want to go back to the feed bunk. So you want something that's really going to be able to service your herd. They're also going to have an increased risk of metabolic diseases. So something like Laminitis, because they're over conditioned, there's more potential for that as well as because they're heavier, they could have a higher chance of injury because there's so much more pressure on those joints.

(29:30):

So we really don't want to see partway through our breeding season, our bull not be able to do what he was bought to do because he was just too fat to start with. The only one really positive about being over conditioned is that good condition pre winter, they're going to retain energy reserves better for breeding. So maybe once you pull them out from the breeding herd, getting them a little bit a bit of extra condition for winter is just fine. But then we really want them in tip top, perfect body condition score to head into that breeding season.

Kara Mastel (30:10):

We all needed a little extra weight on us to get us through the winter.

Carling Matejka (30:14):

Yeah, we need that extra warmth and insulation.

Kara Mastel (30:17):

That's what I tell myself anyways.

Carling Matejka (30:19):

Yeah, same.

Kara Mastel (30:21):

So is there any advice you would give to ranchers? They're out and about and they're perusing these bowls on sale day and they want to ensure they make informed decisions.

Carling Matejka (30:33):

Yeah.

Kara Mastel (30:34):

What should they be keeping in the back of their mind? I mean, there's obviously all these things we said, but is there anything else you would kind of like to add there?

Carling Matejka (30:42):

I mean, there's so many things to keep in mind. I think that having be prepared, I think that that's what I can send away with them. Have a goal before you're going to that sale. Know what you're trying to optimize in your herd and what you're looking for. Two second would be go through that bull catalog, watch those videos online, investigate and explore through the breed association website, see if you can get more information. Then just what's in the catalog. And three, when you're there, ask questions. Find out what those bulls were fed, find out how the conditions they were raised in. Find out as much information as you can have, just because that's going to help you make a more informed decision. And if you need to, don't be afraid to reach out to other professionals in the industry. I know that at our vet clinic, at Veterinary Agri Health Services, we do help a lot of our clients sift through full catalogs to help them just understand what they should be looking for based on their goals.

Kara Mastel (31:55):

Absolutely. Okay. That is terrific advice. Can producers get ahold of VAHS too if they're looking for more information here, or can they get ahold of you personally?

Carling Matejka (32:09):

Yeah, absolutely. So we're based out of Crossfield Alberta, but we do work all over Western Canada. We are online. You can find us on our website at wwwdot VAHS.net or give us a call 9 4 8 2 2 5 3. We're more than happy to help if you need it.

Kara Mastel (32:38):

Great. Okay. Well, thank you very much for your time today, Carlin. I look forward to talking more with you on the show as we progress through the season.

Carling Matejka (32:46):

Yeah, this was great. I love talking about what I love. Awesome. Thank you.

Kara Mastel (32:55):

Thanks everyone for tuning into another episode of The Bovine. I hope you found my discussion with Carling as insightful as I did. I know I certainly learned something today, and I hope you did as well. As we navigate the challenges and opportunities of rebuilding herds and selecting the right herd bowls, it's clear that in informed decisions can make a significant impact on our operations. And like Carling said, by golly, have a plan for your operation because it makes selecting so much easier. Remember, optimization over maximization. Understand the role of milk production and evaluating overhaul bull health are key factors in achieving a balanced and productive herd. Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll continue to bring you valuable tips, strategies, and expert advice to help you thrive in the world of cattle. Stay tuned to a BP Daily and your favorite podcast apps for more. Are you facing certain struggles on your operation right now that you'd like to hear an expert speak on? Get in touch on social by tagging Alberta Beef Producers and using the hashtag ABPs The Bovine. And if you don't do social media, which hey, some days I can hardly blame you, you can personally catch me on my email, KaraM@albertbeef.org. Until next time, stay safe and stay warm, everyone, and just remember in four months, it's going to be ridiculously hot again.

(34:29):

Okay, bye for now.