Key trends in Influencer Marketing in 2024 with Lindsey Gamble from Mavrck

The Business of Creators is a podcast for content creators and everyone interested in the creator economy. On this show Ian Shepherd speaks with the pioneers shaping the industry and digs deeper to get the scoop on new ways to create, distribute and monetize content.

Ian is co-founder of Electrify Video Partners,  a company investing $m in established creators to accelerate their growth. Check out electrify.video.

In the first episode of 2024 Ian speaks with Lindsey Gamble, Associate Director of Influencer Innovation at Mavrck. In this podcast Lindsey explains his thoughts on: 

• The most important trends in influencer marketing right now
• The opportunities for influencers on LinkedIn
• How to build campaigns with micro and nano creators

Please go check it out and subscribe to the show for more interviews from industry leaders shaping the Creator Economy. 

Transcript

Lindsey Gamble  0:00  
Seeing brands and marketers and creators themselves be more creative with how they partner together, bringing them into their corporate boardroom, bringing them in as consultants, really looking at them as not only creators, but also consumers.

Ian Shepherd  0:14  
Hello and welcome to the business of creators. Podcast, your essential guide to the heartbeat of the creative economy. I'm your host, Ian shepherd, and I'm thrilled to take you behind the scenes into the world of individuals and businesses who play a crucial role in supporting creators with their products and services. In each episode, we'll unravel the stories of innovative entrepreneurs and service providers who have dedicated themselves to empowering creators, whether it's offering cutting edge tools, strategic insights or invaluable services. These Trailblazers are instrumental in shaping the landscape of the Creator economy. In this first episode of 2024 I'm speaking with Lindsay gamble, associate director of influencer innovation at Maverick. We discuss all things influencer marketing, including the latest trends, regulations and AI tools. Lindsay has been doing influencer marketing for a long time as a creator and marketeer, and he shares some wise words of wisdom before we jump into the show. Let me tell you about electrified video partners, a business I co founded three years ago that invests millions of dollars into creative businesses. We offer large, established creators a business partner to help scale, step back or exit their business altogether. Check us out at electrified dot video, or drop me a DM to find out more. And so on. To today's show, and I'm joined by influencer marketing veteran Lindsay gamble. Welcome to the show.

Lindsey Gamble  1:34  
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be in and talk to you for a little bit. Lindsay, you're

Ian Shepherd  1:38  
always on top of the key trends. Can you tell us? What are you looking at for 2024 of

Lindsey Gamble  1:43  
course, of course, I wrote a piece about some of the biggest trends and predictions. So there's a couple. The ones that come top to mind is this idea of platforms like Tiktok and YouTube really trying to expand to bigger screens. So when we think about social media, it's mobile devices. But over the last year or two, we've seen a lot of social media platforms try to expand their presence to these bigger screens. And what I mean by bigger screens is everything from the television screen to, you know, connected devices, to even billboards. And YouTube is probably the best case, right? They've been investing a lot in YouTube TV, acquiring the rights for the NFL Sunday Ticket and integrating the standard YouTube experience with some of its streaming services. But we're also seeing Tiktok do this in everything from just building a Tiktok experience that's built for television through like the Tiktok television app. But more recently, it launched this new solution called out of phone, which is basically the ability for Tiktok to work with advertisers and brands to bring some of that great, engaging, short form video content to screens throughout our everyday life. So now you can take Tiktok content, amplify it on a billboard, if you go to certain movie theaters, you'll see curated Tiktok content rolling before you see the movie. And advertisers can run ads along with that, and then also just Tiktok content everywhere, you know, I went to the gas to pump some gas few weeks ago. In certain gas stations, there's the ability to, you know, see curated Tiktok videos. And so social media is really moving off our mobile devices and becoming integrated throughout our everyday experiences.

Ian Shepherd  3:29  
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing to see that at electrify, we have been watching with our YouTube channels, the evolution with the TV screen and some of our channels have gone from 20% to 40% of viewing on the TV, and with that, you see longer average view durations. You see higher RPMs. And I think that that's set to continue for 24 what other things you seeing? Tell me a bit about AI and how you think that would evolve. Yeah,

Lindsey Gamble  3:53  
AI, I feel like the topic for the last year. We're probably gonna be the topic for the next couple of years. AI is playing a big role in the Creator economy, I think from the platforms themselves, I think every major social media platform integrated AI in some capacity, everything from tools to, you know, create new content, to some of the advertising tools themselves. I think it's going to continue to play a big role for creators as well as brands, to kind of streamline those processes. You know, one of the big announcements that YouTube made last year during its made on YouTube event was a handful of new AI tools, and one of the big ones was aI dubbing. And if we think about creators today, today, you really have to be across every platform. You typically have to repurpose content to really build audiences elsewhere. But with like a tool like that, it becomes a little easier for creative special on YouTube to reach new audiences, as opposed to having to repost content on every platform and create new content every day. Now, with tools like aI dubbing, they can actually reach new audiences the same content you know. We think about English as the main language, but that's just a very smart that's very just, we think about English as, you know, the main language, but that's just a very small part of the world. And so if I'm an English speaking creator, I can now use, you know, YouTube's tool or any other AI power dubbing tool out there to reach new audiences across the world that you weren't able to reach before because of the language barrier. On that same note, we're seeing more people become creators because of AI you know, you don't necessarily have to know how to take a great photo today, or, you know, cut up a video. There's AI tools out there, you know, all these different text to video or text to photo generators now open the opportunity for people that have imagination to be able to create content, and depending on who you talk to, maybe it's not the same thing as being a creator, but it ultimately unlocks a new pool of creators that weren't able to do it before because maybe they didn't have that physical skill to take A photo or know how to use editing software. Another thing is where I think there's going to be some friction is really between brands and creators. One of the things I've been paying attention a lot to is just how creators have become a really key source for creative content, for paid media. And so in my line of work, we'll work with brands and help them connect with creators to produce, you know, content assets that they then repurpose on their social channels, but also use that for paid media. And so if we think about where AI is going, and the AI tools we have today across meta and some of the other platforms, you can create a net new piece of content that can be used as your paid media asset, but you also could take existing content and be able to update that or edit that so that, say, if we I took a photo today during winter time here in Boston, and say it has a winter background, I can take that same photo integrated into some of these social media platform tools or other tools, and be able to strip out the background and turn that into a photo That's really aligned with, you know, seasonal content for the summer or the holidays, and so we're just seeing a lot of disruption.

Ian Shepherd  7:07  
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing to see how quickly these tools were evolving, and we're certainly testing some of that dubbing tools like paper, carp and ditto. What do you think about regulation and how that may evolve with influencer marketing as we look forward to 2024, and beyond, that's

Lindsey Gamble  7:23  
another key area that I've been really focused on. And as a person that works in influencer marketing, it's not the most interesting, right? We want to, we want to focus on working with creators and, you know, creating great campaigns that drive results. But as I move throughout my career, and as I, you know, try to make sure I have the skills to continue to progress, looking at the regulations is really important understanding how, you know, regulatory bodies in the US and the UK and other other places are updating their rules and guidelines for creators and recognizing that creators have just as much, or maybe even more, power than your traditional media outlets. And so we're seeing pretty much regulatory bodies across the world start to really align their rules and guidelines, along with the industry. You know, back in the summer, the FTC updated some of its guidelines for the first time, I think, in, you know, over a decade, probably even longer, where it started to really address some of these nuanced scenarios. For example, you know, the idea of de influencing, which was a big topic last year, where creators go out in, you know, instead of recommending the product they they show you products that you shouldn't buy under the new FTC guidelines, if you're a creator that works with, say, a food and beverage company, and you create a Organic video where you're putting down a food and beverage company that is a competitor of a company that you have a partnership with, in that case, you're supposed to disclose because what you're seeing could have an impact on the audience, and that's something that's so nuanced that you know you wouldn't necessarily think about but we're seeing the regulatory bodies really adapt to that. And so I think, as a creator, as a marketer, or as as anyone that's working in the industry, it's really important to try to stay up with those guidelines, because they're evolving, and we're seeing creators and brands themselves get in trouble for violating them. And so it's a really important part, if you do play in this industry and work between creators and brands, yeah,

Ian Shepherd  9:19  
I mean, it makes absolute sense, and as you say, they're constantly changing for creators, how would you advise that they stay on top of those?

Lindsey Gamble  9:29  
Yeah, I would incorporate it as part of your education. Just like you would stay up to date on the latest trends around YouTube or the new tools across Instagram, also make sure that you're keeping up to date on the regulatory bodies and the changes they're making. And that's, you know, go into the sites themselves. But also, you know, some of the publications out there, and people like myself will cover them and trying to understand them, to be honest, they can be very hard and sometimes, and, you know, depending on what region it is that. Instructions and guidelines themselves aren't very clear, but I think as a creator, it's better to over disclose your content than not disclose it at all. I think one you don't want to get yourself in trouble, and we're seeing those regulatory bodies take more action and actually sue creators. In some places, I think in France, you can now go to jail. I think in China, you can be banned from using social media at all. In America, and I think in the UK, it's probably not fines, but it's not as kind of extreme. But I also think outside, like the repercussions is like, as a creative, you're working with brands, and you owe your audience, audience, that disclosure, that transparency. I think I probably, I don't mean to speak for everyone, but I think none of us like to be, you know, misled, right? And so if you come across a piece of sponsored content that it that isn't disclosed well, but it is disclosed when you see it, you're going to probably going to have a negative reaction for that piece of content, that creator, too. So it's not just from a legal standpoint, but also about keeping that trust with your community.

Ian Shepherd  11:04  
Yeah, I would definitely second that championing the over disclosure is a good thing to do now. 2023 was a pretty tough year for influencer marketing. A number of agencies went out of business. Rates were coming down. Do you think that influencer marketing has reached sort of a point of saturation, where audiences are becoming immune to sponsored content. Or do you still think there's a long way to go?

Lindsey Gamble  11:26  
I think there's still a long way to go. I would actually say it's evolving. You know, it's when I talk about this, the influence and earlier, a lot of people question and said, like, hey, does this mean that influencer marketing is dead? And one of the big points that I see about that, you know, scenario, the influences, is that it's actually shows the evolution of influencer marketing. We're seeing more people enter, you know, the creator influencer pool. We see the emergence of more B to B influencer marketing. Just what, where we are taking influencer marketing, where it's very different than what it was two or three years ago. And I think, you know, two or three years ago, you know, brands, we're just seeing creators as kind of like a way to tend to an audience. And we're seeing brands and marketers and creators themselves be more creative with how they partner together. And I think you're really only limited by your imagination today. And so we're seeing some great use cases of how brands are tapping creators beyond content, you know, bringing them into their corporate boardroom, bringing them in as consultants, really looking at them as you know, not only creators, but also consumers. You know, creators can create great content and can build audiences, but they also know the trends within the industry. And so instead of tapping a everyday consumer, why not tap a creator to, you know, for creator research, or to be a consultant, to really open up your eyes to some of the trends that they're seeing and the things that you might be missing. And then also, too, I think we're just seeing more people or more brands get involved in influencer marketing, and so we're seeing it move outside, you know, your YouTube, your Instagram, your Tiktok, and now we're seeing LinkedIn become a big channel, and some of the other, you know, channels that may have historically not been a place for influencer marketing in terms of oversaturation. No, you could say, you know, you could say the job market is oversaturated, right? How many accountants are there? How many copywriters Are they like? You know, there's always gonna be plenty. I do think that as a creator, it's harder to separate yourself from others today, because you're competing with so many more people today than maybe, you know, five years ago. And so, you know, as a creator, it should, it can be hard not to follow the trends and follow what you know the Mr. Beast of the world are doing, but you really have to kind of focus on what you do best, and trying to separate yourself from the millions and millions of creators out there. Yeah,

Ian Shepherd  13:51  
no, I would agree with that as well. And what about sort of this trend towards micro and nano influences, whether it's dispersive or real, effective authenticity and higher engagement. How do you think about that? From your perspective,

Lindsey Gamble  14:09  
I've always been a big fan of micro influencers. Actually, the company I work for Maverick, now, called later, really started based on the micro influencer. And the micro influencer is great because they can do a little bit of everything. They typically can create great content. They usually have higher engagement rates because they're a little more relatable. You know, they might they're not usually full time creators. So they're creating content. They're creating they're building up these communities, but they're not solely relying on content creation as a, you know, money engine. Also you can work with micro creators in different components, you know, ratings or reviews. So in addition to having them create content, they can lead, you know, they can review your product on your website. They can share referral codes. They can do a little bit of everything. And it's funny because, like, I see a lot of. Addictions where, like, micro creators are going to be the big thing in 2024 and they've been big for, you know, the last couple of years. You know, using myself as example, I, you know, also worked with brands on Instagram and the lifestyle and outdoor space. And, you know, I have under 2000 followers on Instagram, but I've been able to work with, you know, some of the biggest brands in the world as a micro creator, you know, like the LL beans alley, gas brewing, harpoon brewery, everyman, Jack Express, and you know, many times paid in a paid capacity. And so for someone like myself and the other micros, it's a great opportunity to work with your favorite brands and monetize, and it's a great opportunity to partner with those brands to elevate yourself as well. Yeah,

Ian Shepherd  15:42  
I love that. And then, you know, one of the things we touched on, a bit, a bit, is AI. But how do you think influencer marketing is going to evolve with virtual influencers and AI generated content? Yeah, influencer

Lindsey Gamble  15:54  
marketing is going to evolve in a few different ways. I think from Ai generated content for the creators themselves. As I talked about earlier, we have more creators in the pool thanks to AI. And so I think those creators will leverage AI to build up the audience and then be able to use the audience to get brand deals with, you know, brands and companies. So that's one way where AI will open up more opportunities for those creators and more opportunities for those creators, and more opportunities for those brands to partner with AI first graders. I think on the virtual influencer standpoint, we're seeing that today with, you know, a handful of virtual influencers that have, you know, 1000s, maybe even millions of followers, that essentially are doing the same thing as a human creator. And the benefit of that is that you know, on the brand side, you know, one of the biggest areas of friction between brands and creators is compensation, right? You know, what a virtual creator? You know, if you're a brand that creates your own virtual creator, or you partner with an agency that has one, you're probably going to get a little better, better deals, right? Because they because it's not essentially a person. There is a person behind it, but it's not essentially a human being that's, you know, deciding whether they're going to take this offer or not. And so for the agencies and the people that create these virtual influencers, so it's not actually done be in being in content, they probably are going to, you know, be a little more flexible with pricing. And for that, along the same lines, I think we're going to see brands create their own influences too, where, essentially they just have virtual influences that you know, have the same power and impact of creators that they typically would have to pay, you know, to do content. Then with virtual influencers, you know, you don't really have to worry about PR issues or anyone you know being in the news for a negative thing. And so we, you know, if you worked with brands before, you know that that's the biggest, you know, kind of red flag, or the biggest concern they have at working with influence, especially such a bigger ones where, like, they work with that influencer, that influencer does something, they get arrested, or they say something controversial, then they have to figure out, you know, how do they react to that. But virtual influencers, there's less scenarios where you have to, you know, do a whole PR crisis management program. Yeah, I

Ian Shepherd  18:08  
think it's gonna be fascinating if we see brands coming out with their own virtual influencers. Time will tell, I guess. Yeah.

Lindsey Gamble  18:15  
And I also think for creators themselves, you can create a, you know, Avatar yourself or a virtual version of yourself. We see creators all the time, you know, deal with burnout, right? And go instead of having to create content and be on camera all the time, they can create a virtual version themselves based on the existing video or text or audio content. That's an opportunity for them to still build their community and build their their content, or that's that's that's an opportunity for them to build a community and continue to be a creator without having to actually put all that same effort in, day in, day out, by having this virtual version of themselves that can still interact with the community and put out content and still kind of be a touch point with the people that love them. Yeah, yeah.

Ian Shepherd  18:58  
I actually interviewed cop um last year, one of the pioneers in YouTubers and virtual YouTubers about his journey, um, creating blue, which was a character that he created a Virtual YouTuber. Um, I want to touch on some of the platforms in a minute. But before I do, what do you think is going to be sort of or the relationship between creators and platforms, particularly in light of some of the recent layoffs from YouTube and the other networks, particularly in the kind of the Creator support team. And you know, on one hand, they're championing creators and they want them to be producing more content. On the other hand, they're removing, you know, all of the staff supporting these creators. How do you expect to see that evolve over time? It's just kind

Lindsey Gamble  19:39  
of a reflection of where we are today, the job market. I mean, everyone's doing layoffs, everyone's trying to, you know, be more productive with, you know, less talent, less resources. I think, for the you know, the creators that you know, were managed by those people or had touch points, those people you know, that's definitely going to impact them, because they're probably gonna have less insight or less support than they had before. Sure, but it's also kind of an opportunity to readjust and realign for those platforms, to understand, you know, we need creators, but what is the way that we support them? How do we go about, you know, keeping our business going, but also be able to provide creators with those resources. And I imagine we'll hear more about, you know, especially on the YouTube front, and the impacts of that, you going forward. But I think, as a creator, you know, platforms are here to support you, but also, you know, they have their own goals and objectives. And I think sometimes creators in, you know, I'm a creator too, right? So I feel like I can speak from that POV where, you know, we think we the platforms, oh, or something, right? And so, yeah, we're creating content that's keeping people engaged. But ultimately, you know, just like the platforms, we're business, we're trying to do what's best for us. And you know, if a creator and the platforms can come together and find a way that drives value on both sides, that's great, but also know that it's a business, it's not a nonprofit, and so platforms are continuing to make changes, whether it's, you know, staffing or tools or features or monetization. And as a creator, you just have to kind of be prepared for that. And I think what's great about, you know, most creators today is that they used to that adversity. They used to changes. And I think we'll see more creators kind of, you know, change their mind set going forward. And yes, we'll leverage the support from the platforms themselves, but also know that that support can be, you know, here today and gone the next day.

Ian Shepherd  21:25  
Yeah, yeah, there definitely used to change, that's for sure. And you mentioned earlier about LinkedIn, and I'm really curious to kind of hear your thoughts on LinkedIn. Obviously, we connected on LinkedIn. A lot of people that listen to this podcast are in the industry. They're on LinkedIn. How do you imagine that brands are going to start using B to B creators on LinkedIn?

Lindsey Gamble  21:51  
Yeah, great question. Just to back up a little bit, you know, going to our previous question around, you know, devolution between creators and platforms like LinkedIn is one that could be included in that. So, you know, LinkedIn has always been a place for job searching and networking, but over the last couple of years, we've seen them really lean on creators and use creators in all the messaging. They built out creator mode. They built out a creative management team that I believe has become much smaller today than what it was. And then, you know, most recently, they sunset a lot of their kind of newsletters and editorial that was geared towards creators to make them more broad. So while they kind of put a lot of efforts and catering to the Creator Community, now they're trying to they're pulling back and catering to a bigger demographic of LinkedIn users. You think about creators today on LinkedIn, not everyone can visit themselves a creator. You know, they might be a co founder that's creating content like a creator, but at the end of the day, they're running a company, and so that's something else I just want to kind of bring up in the context of the evolution between creators and their platforms. But going forward, I think LinkedIn is a awesome platform, and it's one of the platforms that is I spend a lot of time on, and the platform that I'm most active on, and there's a great opportunity on LinkedIn, because B to B marketing, or B to B influencer marketing, is I feel like a little behind compared to your typical consumer influencer marketing. And now that everyone on LinkedIn is able to build up these big audiences thanks to LinkedIn investment and creators and adjacent roles, there's a lot more people creating content on LinkedIn and building up audiences and really building these strong communities. And if we think about brands, they always go to the platforms. They always go to the experiences where creators are because creators are bringing those audiences there. And so what I've been seeing in both my role and as a creator is more brands looking to partner with people on LinkedIn, something that you probably wouldn't necessarily think was possible, if you think about maybe before the pandemic. But you know, I've been able to partner with some brands on sponsored LinkedIn content, for in feed content, but also my newsletter, and I see a lot of other people out there. So when I go on LinkedIn, I see, you know, sponsored content, which, you know, was rare, but now it's pretty common now. And B to B marketing, you know, the great thing about is that a lot of those brands, you know, have good budgets, and they have budgets they want to use, and it can be hard to cut through the noise, especially if you're a SaaS company or, you know, you're a company that's based on technology that maybe isn't as sexy or as you know, has a great personality, like some of the consumer products. And so there's a great opportunity for those companies to partner with people on LinkedIn, whether they're creators, thought leaders, you know, entrepreneurs or consultants or podcasters that you know, double as entrepreneurs. It's a great opportunity for them to work with those people on LinkedIn and create content across the different formats. That could be a standard short form post, that could be an article, that could be newsletters, which I think is a great opportunity, that could be a live stream, and really get in front of their audience. Everyone's on LinkedIn. If you're on LinkedIn, you want to do some type of business, whether you're the person that's looking for a, you know, a software. Service or the person that's trying to drive business, you know, through sales or consulting business or whatever it is. And I'm really excited about that this year, because I think we're gonna see a lot more of it. I'm excited to work with brands, you know, during my nine to five to help onboard them on LinkedIn. But also excited to work with brands as a creative too.

Ian Shepherd  25:18  
That's amazing. And tell us about your newsletter. I know you've been sharing a newsletter on LinkedIn for quite a while now. How's that been? And what's your what's your experience of it,

Lindsey Gamble  25:27  
writing the newsletter has been an awesome experience. I've been doing it for a little over two years. It's something I want to do for a while, and then I finally, kind of just took the dive. And what's been awesome about is, like the, kind of the evolution of the newsletter, but also, you know, I think back before the pandemic, I saw newsletters really having kind of a popping back up with the sub stacks and some of the other platforms out there, and to me, with some of the social media algorithm changes, a newsletter felt to me as felt to me as the best way to cut through the noise and be able to kind of own your audience. I think that's why a lot of people invested more in blogs and newsletters, and so that was kind of one of the reasons why I want to do a newsletter, but also to share my perspective about the Creator economy, and having that perspective of working, you know, on the marketing side, but also being a creator, and kind of blend to both the best of both worlds, where I can share kind of the news that's going on in the industry, but also share my experiences on both ends and help people you know, do better in their role, whether a creator or marketer, and really provide that actionable insights. And you know, going back to conversation about LinkedIn, the LinkedIn newsletter product gets a lot of, you know, backlash because you don't have access to the subscribers, which is something that you know, I hate to, but if we think about some of the benefits or some of the challenges with social media platform is, is the algorithms right? Typically, you have to make content that feeds into the algorithm and make sure and to optimize it to get surface to someone that's scrolling through their feed with a LinkedIn newsletter, it's essentially as a in app. You know notification when you send out your newsletter. You know people that subscribe get that notification, and so they usually click into it. And so I think, you know, product like that is something great for myself, but also people that, you know, want to cut through the noise, but also people that have these really unique POVs. Everything's kind of short form video, but there's still a place for long form video, whether it's, you know, blog posts or newsletters or video content itself.

Ian Shepherd  27:24  
Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. And where did it all start for you? I think you had a hip hop blog. Is that right? Yeah,

Lindsey Gamble  27:30  
yeah. So my, my kind of foundation of where I am today is I ran a hip hop blog shortly after college, I think 2011 and did that for six or seven years. I probably should figure out the specific time period, but it was longer than the job I'm in today. So it was a good part of, you know, my kind of working experience. And so I covered the local hip hop scene here in Boston. It was a way for me to create an internship and teach myself social media. At that time, I was working for Dana Farber, which is a cancer hospital in clinical research, but always, always been really passionate about social media, and so this was a way for me to really dive in and try to teach myself skills and really kind of expand my writing capabilities and skills. And so evolved from being a blog to working with artists and helping them get PR to managing them and helping them book shows to interviewing national talent, to hosting shows, and also working with some brands like converse, Skype, uh, Down East sider, and some other brands on kind of these partnerships. And at that time, I wasn't thinking myself as a creator, but that's essentially what I was doing. And and I think a lot about what I do today from both the marketer and creator economy side. I talk a lot about the experience, I look back on experience because it played a pivotal role in kind of how I think about social media and, you know, the learnings, but also how you can use the internet and dive into your passions and really build something, and over time, you can build an audience and be able to monetize it, or, you know, create new opportunities for yourself, which I Think is a beautiful thing about social media today and other adjacent platforms. Yeah,

Ian Shepherd  29:05  
it is a beautiful thing. And what about your latest role and the rebrand at Maverick? Can you tell us about that? I know it's fresh off the press. Yeah.

Lindsey Gamble  29:14  
So Maverick is now later. So about a year and a half or two years ago, we acquired later, which is a social media management company. Over the last couple of years, we've been working hand in hand together. So Maverick, the company formerly known as Maverick, is an influencer marketing platform and then social and later focuses on social media tools such as scheduling analytics and then also link and bio tool and so we recently announced a rebrand. And so the maverick brand is coming Maverick and later coming together underneath the later brand. And so the maverick platform that was for influencer marketing is now called later influence. Later social media tools are now called later social and then we have a link in bio. Tool, so a third party aviator of links that you know, creators and brands can use. So it's been really exciting where we're trying to really unite all the players across the creative economy and social media. So be a one stop shop for social media managers, influencer marketers, creators and small businesses to really provide them with all the tools they need. What's really been cool is that, you know, in my role, it's really about innovation, and so it's kind of reflecting where we're going as a company. And, you know, my role is really focused on helping our customers work with creators in new and unique ways, and that can be new platforms, but also new use cases. And so one of the a couple kind of projects I worked on over the last year have been kind of projects that have been between the two different tool sets, or the multiple different tool sets. So testing out Lincoln bio is a deliverable for customers. So we think about customers today and brands, they really want to drive clicks and conversions and link in bio tools have become like the de facto website for creators. And so in addition to having a creator post a Tiktok video or YouTube video, also having them add affiliate link or a campaign link into the, you know, the link in bio to where they can direct the audience to purchase that product. And you know, if we think about Instagram, you know, stories only last 24 hours. And so with a link of link and bio tools, such as later, you can now really expand the life of those campaign links. And a lot of our brands want to work with creatives that are going to lead to ROI. That ROI is typically around clicks and conversions. And so running some tests around that, and really kind of bringing the two products together has been kind of a exciting opportunity, but we're excited about kind of what we're going to be able to do for the greater creative economy and social media, and really help all the players, whether they are social media manager, whether a business that wants to drive revenue, whether they're creator that wants to work with brands and, you know, get sponsorships.

Ian Shepherd  31:59  
Got it where it sounds like you've got a busy year ahead with the rebrand. Thank you for joining me before we go. I've just got one final question, and I wondered, what sort of advice would you give to someone who's just starting out in the industry as a creator?

Lindsey Gamble  32:13  
I would say patience. You know, we look at Tiktok. Tiktok is creating overnight stars. And, you know, I think people say they want to be a creator, but it's hard work. I think you got to have patience. You have to understand that it's really hard to build a community and build an audience, but if you stick with it over time, you're more than likely to get to where you want to go. But it's not so much always just copying the trends. It's also thinking about what makes you special, what's your POV really lean into that, especially as we think about AI, where AI is going to be able to create a blog post based on existing data, but AI can't really create a POV looking forward. And so it's gonna be really important as a creator, is to use what what comes to you, naturally, your POV, your perspective, and also we're all looking to connect with humans. So sometimes it's not overthinking the algorithm, it's really thinking about, what value can I bring to people that see this piece of content, and how can I continue to deliver that value in a way that connects with them but also reflects what I want to get off as a creator.

Ian Shepherd  33:17  
Love it. I would definitely, definitely support you in championing patience and persistence. And of all of the creators that I ever speak to that are successful, they've definitely, they've had that patience and they've, they've, they've persisted. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. If anyone wants to connect with you or subscribe to your newsletter, how do they do so

Lindsey Gamble  33:38  
yeah, thank you so much. This was awesome. Lindsay gamble.com that's my website. I have everything linked out there. I would love for anyone to subscribe to. My newsletter comes out every Friday. You can find out there's a LinkedIn version, but there's also a email version. Lindsay gamble.be, hive.com but reach out to me if you're a brand creator. Always open to meeting new folks and open, hoping we can find a way to work together or just exchange ideas, but thanks again. I really appreciate it

Ian Shepherd  34:07  
amazing. Thanks for joining me for the first show in 2024

Lindsey Gamble  34:11  
feel lucky. Bye.