5.31 Women-Led Homes with Julie Barth

The United States has the highest rate of children in single-parent homes in the world, with 80% of those homes led by women. 

In many cases, women find themselves in this situation unexpectedly due to death, divorce, military deployment or other factors. 

So how do you navigate and prepare for something like this? Today's guest has the answers. 

Julie Barth is a mother to six children. She is also the the CEO and founder of the Colin James Barth Outreach, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to helping women-led households with the resources and aid necessary to find security and stability in times of crisis. Julie twice found herself in an unexpected solo-parent situation, first after the death of her first husband and secondly after leaving an abusive relationship. 

Her mission is to use her experiences as caregiver, special needs parent, and trauma survivor to encourage women in similar situations to think resourcefully and always protect themselves without stigma or feelings of selfishness. Julie is also a professional writer whose work reflects a dedication to finding joy and meaning in every experience.

You can learn more about Julie on her website, JulieBarthAuthor.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

I'm Kitty Aki. I'm a mom of three, and I'm a good mom, but I'm always learning and growing, and I bet you are too. So join me on my mission to learn from moms from all walks of life because let's be honest, momming is way more fun when we do it together. Welcome to the Den Mother Podcast. Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Den Mother Podcast. I'm your host, Kitty Aki, and today is a very interesting topic, you guys. We're talking about women-led homes, which is kind of on the rise in America. More and more homes are led by single mothers, and there's a lot that these mothers don't know, especially if they're thrown into it suddenly due to the death of a spouse or something like that. So let me read you the guest bio, and then we'll get right into the episode. Julie Barth is a mother to six children guys. She's also the CEO and founder of the Colin James Barth Outreach, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to helping women-led households with the resources and aid necessary to find security and stability in times of crisis. Her mission is to use her experiences as a caregiver, a special needs parent, and trauma survivor to encourage women in similar situations to think resourcefully and always protect themselves without stigma or feelings of selfishness. Julie is also a professional writer whose work reflects a dedication to finding joy and meaning in every experience. Hi, Julie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me. Oh, I'm doing well. Thank you for being on. This is such an interesting topic. When you brought it to my attention, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't even know how many households in the United States are women-led. Do you happen to know? I'm going to look into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I don't. I wish I did. Too many. Um and as you said, I I think it, I think it's on the mise. Um, I think there's been a new movement, um, I think among women who are finally having enough and leaving, um, which is encouraging. But um, you know, my hope is to change what they're leaving um for and what they're leaving to.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Uh so yeah, that's so good. Okay, so tell me about your story. You mentioned, or I guess I mentioned in the beginning about the trauma and all of that. So let's start with your story and then how you got into this work.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Sure. Um, so as you said, that I'm a mother of six, and um I have a special needs daughter who is now 20, she's gonna be 25 on Easter. Um Thanks. Uh, she has something called primordial dwarfism. But when I had her, I we had no idea it was 2001. So what she has was back then can it's still rare, but um, you know, in 2001, there was no Google. So it was literally like going through a book. You know, we would go to a hospital and they had those thick books, and they would say, like, oh no, she doesn't have that, you know, turn the page. Um, so after we found out what was um really, you know, going on with her, and I I think she was about 40 surgeries in, she started taking off and doing okay. Um, but then my my husband, who was my grammar school sweetheart, uh, my first kiss, um, he was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah. So we had four, four children. The youngest at the time was six months, the oldest was 10, and then Tatum, who's my special needs daughter, was kind of sandwiched in the middle of it. So he actually ended up living 16 months. Um, some of them were blessings, some not so much. Um, but after, you know, getting out of that whole situation, I unfortunately um I kind of felt like I lost, you know, two decades of my life in caregiving, whether that was Tatum or my husband Colin. And I ended up kind of, you know, just latching onto a really bad relationship. And um, that led into a a decade of emotional and um some really serious abuse. So um I'm on the other side of that now. Uh I've been divorced for about three and a half years um after fighting from the two that we share. Um, and it was a really nasty battle. Uh, I do have sole custody and he's no longer in our lives, which is you know, sad for them, um, but hopefully healthier for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah. So you had two situations where you found yourself in a position where you were the leader of your home first as a widow, and then later leaving an abusive relationship. Are there other situations in which women would find themselves in that being the leader, the sole caregiver in a home? Or are those the kind of two main ones?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

I think there's all different kinds of reasons. Um, you know, military wives or um, you know, I think it's hard as a homemaker, um, as a mother, you, you know, you have the best of intentions for life to go in a specific direction. Unfortunately, uh, you know, things don't always end up the way that you plan. I think that's really the crux of why I do what I do. Um, you know, I was very fortunate. My very my first marriage was I I was married to the most fantastic man that could ever live. Um, but unfortunately, even if you know things are going right, there's always the potential that they won't be going that um, you know. So um our our mission really, you know, we tell sports athletes, like, if they want to, you know, throw their whole heart into being a sports athlete, a professional, you know, like make sure you have a backup plan. But unfortunately, we don't tell women that. And a lot of us put our um, I wouldn't say it's a sacrifice because I never felt it was a sacrifice to be a stay-at-home mom, but we do put our own safety at um at risk when you know we, you know, of course, when you get married, you want that to last. And I think sometimes women feel as if to plan for anything that's not a happily ever after, is almost in some way not committing to the marriage or not. Or jinxing it.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah. Or jinxing it.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Or yeah. Um, you know, it's supposed to be the two of you forever. And that's great. And I hope everyone in this world gets their dream. But if you don't have a backup plan, unfortunately, systematically, um, women run households, just you know, we brunt the the worst of all of it. Um usually, typically women are not the the first birdwinner. And even if they are, they have someone helping them. But you know, when I when I was no longer in the um married, um I I think it was about two weeks after my my husband passed away. And they sent me um, they called me, I think. They called me and said, you need to rip up all your credit cards, they're not yours anymore, because I didn't have income. And and you don't know that these things happen until they happen to you. So um, yeah, it was like, and and then I tried to get a job, and everyone was like, Well, where's your work experience? As if being a stay-at-home mom for 10 years, you know, like as if I was sitting in a bubble doing nothing.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

And I find that that situation's even becoming worse because now AI is going through everyone's resume. So you're not even gonna get in front of someone if you have been a stay-at-home mom. You know, I I have a master's degree, I have a psychology degree. And it it didn't matter what I had because their first question was, well, where's your work experience? And then of course they get nervous. Oh, you're, you know, your mom to four, you know, and this is the first time, your mom to four kids. Like, how am I gonna guarantee that you're gonna be here? Who's gonna take care of your kids if, you know, if you can't be here? So you're taken less seriously in the workplace as well. Um, and as we know, you know, a minimum wage job is not going to cut it ever. Um, so it just leads to a really, you know, hard path for for women who, you know, through no fault of their own, somehow society feels as if you're, you know, a single mom that you somehow deserved it or you weren't smart enough, or you put yourself in that position, or you married the wrong guy. And um, I don't think that people look at men in the same light when something happens and they get divorced. No one says, like, oh, well, that was dumb.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

You know, like how did you let that happen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think more and more I'm hearing men who go through divert divorce look at it as that, you know, like it wasn't, I don't know, it's more of like a a moral failing, like, how did how did I let that happen? Which is in some ways good that it's like, okay, we we both failed in a in a way or it didn't work out. Um, but you're right, it's like, it's never the same, right? When it's men versus women, it's never equal playing ground. But I think the one thing, I mean, I am in a happily, happy marriage, but anytime my husband is late or he's, you know, taking a flight and I don't hear from him, I'm like, okay, what do I do? This is it, or it's go time. And I, and obviously we have life insurance for him and for me. So I know how to do that. I don't, I also handle most of our um finances. So I know all of our accounts, all of that type of stuff. But I'm not sure that a lot of women do. Like they don't know the passwords, they don't know, you know, all of that stuff. Is that one of the things you teach them?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Um yeah. I mean, that that's probably not where our organizations, you know, target it, I guess. Um we're more trying to just instead of, you know, I guess in that mindset, it's like um picking up where someone leaves off. Um, our true mindset is like just be your be yourself, you know, yeah. Create for yourself. You should have your own account, you know, and that that's not to say that you shouldn't have password as a married couple. Um, and this is something I got into in my second relationship because he was his narcissist and he was a sociopath and he was he was lying and he was, you know, covering things up. And unfortunately, I I glossed over it and I thought, oh, well, everything will be fine, you know. Um, but I didn't build build a life that made me feel secure. And so I think that, you know, obviously those are great tools that, you know, uh need to be spoken about because you're right, um, I still my first husband had um an Apple ID account, you know, back in 2009, and nobody planned for it. So, you know, all of my iTunes are gone. Now that seems very insignificant, um, especially now that there's streaming services, but you know, I had like a thousand songs, and of course that's not what I was worried about, right? Um, but I do um plan ahead, and I think that's kind of every everyone's because you know, if a husband loses a wife, I I'm sure that they are completely lost. And don't get me wrong in that one, but he was picking the kids up in school. How do I shop for groceries? Yeah, all the way.

unknown 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Um, how do I do laundry? No.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, the basics.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah. So I again, that is a very valid thing um to be concerned about. And unfortunately, I, you know, my my husband, um, he did have life insurance, thank God. But um yeah, we were very young. And I think the key really that we're trying to impress upon women is that it's not selfish to, you know, make plans for just you. You know, you are a human being. You don't need to always put yourself subservient to everything else. And again, that's not to say, you know, my kids get 100% of everything and I will always put them in front in front of me. But when by not protecting myself in these scenarios, I really didn't have the resources to protect them. Because when we were going through this nasty divorce, you know, you have to write the lawyer a check for like$2,500 just to get them to represent you. Well, where do you get that money from? And so you put it on a credit card. Well, then you're already in debt, even going into the whole thing. Um, you know, uh there's statistics out there that say the the average man's standard of living goes down 10% after a divorce. The average woman's goes down 44%, and that's average. Yeah. So you've got, you know, all these ranges. And it also takes the average woman 10 years to work her way back after a divorce. Um, again, I'm I'm targeting divorce because I don't know that there's that kind of statistics on widow. Um but anytime you find yourself in a situation that you're unprepared for, uh, you know, I think the first thing you hit is, I don't even know what to do. Um, so that that is really what we're trying to do is give people the roadmap so that, you know, when you hit crisis, the last thing that you have time to do is to plan for anything, you know, find services. You're just in go mode and survival mode. And unfortunately, the children are really the ones that get the brunt of it because you're no longer, you're vacant, you're not there, you're not present, you're worried about money. Um so we're trying to tackle all of those things that really are systematic in the way that, you know, um, in America, we see women in their role in house and um marriages. And again, I'm not here to, I I I'm a traditionalist. I I loved being a wife, I loved being a mother, I loved being a stay-at-home mom. I don't think there's any better um way to to you know spend your time than to, you know, raise the children that will be productive in society. Unfortunately, you know, n that's not available for everyone. And um recognizing that there might come a time that you need a backup plan is really key to, you know, just making sure you're prepared.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, I love that you said you said something to the effect of making sure that you feel secure yourself. Um, because I I do feel like the same. I'm very traditional. I love being married. I actually love having joint bank accounts and kind of merging as one and you know, 13 years into marriage. I think we're okay. But I I also am like, I want to feel secure that I know what's going on if something ever happens to my husband. And in my case, it would be knowing how to contact the life insurance, knowing, you know, how to pay off the mortgage, doing all that kind of stuff. So I've made sure in that regard that I know what to do if anything happens. However, the thing that you were talking about before with the work experience and trying to find a job if you need to when you've previously not worked, um, my mind initially goes to like we women are scrappy. I mean, we can find ways, take in kids, you know, clean houses, we can figure out a way to make money, Uber, whatever it is. Um, but would you say, so if a mom is a stay-at-home mom and doesn't necessarily want to have a job, how can she kind of prepare as far as like creating a plan or working on skills that would give her a leg up if something were to happen?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

I I think that it's just important to not always be fully into married to any one idea of yourself, literally. Um, I I don't know what the answer is, to be honest with you. And and you're right, women are we're very crafty. You know, I I don't know where I would be. And people say, like, I don't know how you did it. To be honest, I don't know how I did it. But somehow when kids are involved, you just get it done. Yeah. Um, I think, you know, it's it's important to always recognize what your skill strengths are and to keep in contact with people. Um, you know, I think as moms, sometimes we get stuck in in the mom playgroups and I and I don't mean stuck. I enjoyed every minute of those things. But we tend to, you know, kind of shy away from people who are in the business world, as if, you know, we don't have a lot in common. Um, I think it's very important for everyone to feel as if they have a place in the world, whatever that is, outside of, you know, just being mom or um, you know, I I wrote and um I I wasn't a writer, I am now, but you know, I sold things on eBay. So I I I don't know if if you're in a you know, maybe the talk that I'm having with you, um, if you're in a you know marriage where you are set up and you have, you know, life insurance and all those things and you are planning ahead, um, I would consider that a plan. Um you know, I'm I'm not saying that you have to do it on your own. Uh basically what I'm saying is that you should have these discussions with your husband. And, you know, if you if you do have a joint account, fantastic, then you know exactly what's coming in, what's going out, you know. But uh a lot of women don't, you know, um, a lot of women get allowances, a lot of women don't take care of the finances. Oh, yeah, yeah, they do. Um yeah, and they don't call it allowance, you know, it's more like um I'll give you a thousand dollars, you know, this month to do A, B, and C. Uh, and the problem comes in that obviously you're doing way more than$1,000 worth. And it's not as if you can, you know, take more than$1,000. But I think it's just important to always be aware of what's going on in your own life. Because I think sometimes you can feel secure, but you're not really secure. And again, I I hate being the doom screen, you know, because that's not what this is about. You know, in in fact, I think that there's nothing more positive than knowing where you stand. Like you said, I know that my husband has life insurance. I know, you know, but not a lot of people engage in those things. Um talking about death is really uncomfortable for a lot of people. And talking about losing a spouse makes you feel very vulnerable and scared. And um, you know, my husband uh side story. Um, my first husband was a board, a traded on the board of trade, and I was doing the bills. And Tatum was sick, and we had four little kids, and he was he was sick before we knew he was sick, and he was just wasn't acting like himself. So we had one of those, like, you know, I Colin, I can't do it all anymore. Yeah, I am gonna turn the bills over to you. So this is about six months before we found out. And um the day that we found out that he had cancer, we were driving away. They told us he had two weeks to live, and he was sitting in the passenger seat, and he said to me, I forgot to pay the life insurance bill. And it was like a five million dollar policy.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Um now again, that's just that timing. Um yeah, but you know, I guess just to always um be be aware of what's going on in your own life because that was going on, and you know, he he had the best of intentions. Um, I knew Bills were not as strong, so it I probably should have never I thought he would like figure out how much I'm doing, which I I found out really quick. Um but you know, between the first and my second marriage, just I I didn't have a plan. My plan was to figure it out if something should happen. And um yeah, so again, I'm not saying that, you know, if you are joint with somebody and you know, you you have a a good relationship and you communicate and you talk about these things because they are important to talk about, even though they're uncomfortable to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah. It's interesting too, because I often think the opposite. Okay, if I were to be gone, what would he do? And um, but I've never talked to him about that. Like, what would your plan be if if I wasn't here? Um, so that's really interesting. The other thing, too, is I'm wondering. So women who leave because of abuse, and you know this because you've been in this situation, have an extra layer of, I mean, of course, a widow is going through grief and having to figure this stuff out. But going through abuse, there's also fear and trauma and all of these things. So, how does that complicate a woman-led house when you're also kind of inundated with all of this extra trauma and fear and emotions?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Well, that's really where um obviously, you know, my passion lies. Um, you know, a lot of women, they stay in these relationships. And I think that, you know, everyone on the outside, it looks so easy. We'll just leave, you know. Um, I've heard a lot of people talk about women staying as if it's all in their head, you know, like um, well, they're just too scared to leave, you know, if that everyone can leave. But the problem is that there are real factors out there, and those are the ones that we're trying to tackle. You know, when I stayed in my marriage long enough because I knew that my children was too little to hand over to him. So everyone stays for whatever reason. Sometimes you don't even know until you get out of it. But in emotional abuse relationships, you know that um, because you've been in it, you know that if you leave, it's not going to get better right away. In fact, it will probably get worse before it gets better. And in the midst of the trauma and, you know, being beaten down, you literally can't imagine doing anything but what you're doing right now because it feels manageable and maintainable, even if it's not. So I do think that there's this um attitude like if you don't leave, you're weak, or you're just not seeing that you need to leave, or you know, that it's easy to leave. When you leave, things do get harder. You know, you you have to find Fight in court. And unfortunately, emotional abuse is still not recognized. Thank God coercive control is finally starting to be a thing. But, you know, you go and you're a victim. And then the courts further victimize you. You know, I had something called a guardian at Litem. And, you know, it was not fair. She was pulling people in from his side. And, you know, he had saved all these text methods. He had set me up. And, you know, so yeah, there's this extra layer. And it is difficult to get out. And that's what we're trying to change. Because I think if the conversation turned and people really saw that, you know, it's not a failure. You know, again, nobody says to a guy, like, oh, that was really stupid. Everyone says, Oh, I'm sorry it didn't work. Um, and there's this I've heard it before too, that women choose, you know, uh toxic mate, you know, traits and people. And they say they just keep making the same poor choices. Well, I see it differently. I see it that the people who they're in a relationship with chose them for their characteristics of being kind, of being, you know, submissive very caregiving, submissive, wanting things to work. And they don't come to you and say, like, I'm going to abuse your children, I'm going to call you names. I'm going to A, B, and C. They don't give you the playbook of what they're going to do. They treat you like any other man would. In fact, they're charming, they're nice. There's no reason to believe that anyone would do that. Your brain doesn't work that way. Um, so I just think that's, and on top of it, when you do leave, they are so hell-bent on making you pay for whatever they feel their grievance is that they will do anything to get back at you. There are there are no stops or standards on what they will how how far they will dig. Um, I will say the positive thing is that the truth always comes out. I don't care. You know, these people can only keep that side of themselves hidden for so long until they feel that they're not winning and then it all blows apart. Um, so you, you know, it's not just an option to get out. You really do have to get out. We're just trying to create an easier pathway for these women who who are in this relationship. They know it's no good, they know it's unhealthy, but they feel like there's no other choice. And quite honestly, for some of them, until things change, there isn't any other choice. Um, so we want to try and bridge that and change some of the stigmas that are out there so that women, you know, everyone says, like, oh, women typically get the house. Yeah, but they also get the mortgage. Um so it's it's a whole way of looking at things.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

That's interesting. So, how does your organization go in and help women who are in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

We're we're fashioning ourselves almost like a concierge service. Um, and that's why we we do talk about women-led households because that's who we're targeting. Um, we also we, you know, I I think our verbiage was originally women in crisis. Um, we are trying to kind of turn that a little bit more to be women in struggle. There are, you know, there are so many organizations out there that will take you if, you know, if you're fleeing your home, if you're in danger, if you, you know, your children are in danger. But you shouldn't have to get to that point. You shouldn't have to flee your home. You shouldn't, you know, and that's what we're really looking at here is, you know, you go to the government and they're like, um, oh, you have savings. Okay, well, come back when it's all gone. We don't think you should have to lose everything to get something. Um, and we also recognize, as I mentioned earlier, that sometimes the hardest thing is just knowing what you need to do. You're so blown into a, you know, a whirlwind, you don't even know what the first step is. All you know is that so much is happening and it's so overwhelming. So what we try and do is we just, we're not like your regular, you know, ordinary charity where we just focus on giving you mortgage or we give you, you know, when you come to us, what we do is we look at where you're at, what your situation is, we give you actionable steps and we're building databases. Um, currently in the state of South Carolina, there are 34,000 charities. Now, if you sit and take that in 34,000 charities, um ironically, when I was falling on hard times, I could not find a charity that I fit into that I was eligible for. So that's where we are starting is we are starting to categorize and building databases of who these people are, what they can provide. Um, because we know realistically, unless you are fleeing your home, uh, you're really not eligible for that many things, or for what I call the full ride. Now, my daughter, who's now a sophomore in college, every this is where I got the idea from because every one of her classmates was going for the full ride. You know, they wanted a well, what she did was she said, like, I'll take$2,000 here, I'll take$1,500 here. And that's where I got the idea is like, okay, I I might not be able to find a charity who will solve all my problems, but I might be able to find five of them. One will pay the utilities for a month, one will give me a down payment on a house. And by just taking some of that pressure off, you know, it's like you can breathe again, you can think, you can plan. And if we give you steps, you just go do them, you know, instead of trying to figure out how to get to where you need to be.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Oh, that's very interesting. So when somebody is creating a plan, and I do like that's great to know that you can kind of piece it together. Um, and obviously you may need to, but I'm curious, and I'm not quite sure how to ask this, but when somebody is creating a plan for themselves, how much time do they need? Like if they decide, oh my gosh, I need to get out and I don't have a plan, can they create that plan in a week and be out? Or does it take time to like build some wealth, come up with skills? Like, should they have this years in advance, or is it just case by case?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I would say it really depends on the individual. And the reason I say that is because there's all the levels of emotional abuse. There are things that, you know, you can maybe put up with that is not very harming to you or your children. There are some situations where you need to get out today and you might not even see it. And that's the problem. I'm I my advice is if you're feeling like something is not healthy for you, um, my first thing is always talk to a third party, you know, stop talking to your friends about it, stop talking to your family about it. That first of all, they've already heard you. Second of all, in most of these situations, it's been like back and forth. We're together, we're not together. He's a bad guy, he's a great guy, because you're constantly trying to fit back in and make things work. Um, so by the time it really is time to leave, your friends have turned you off, or they've they've figured out that if they say the wrong thing, you're going to cut them out. So they're not going to tell you the truth. Um, a lot of times in emotional abuse situations, you don't know what's being said behind your back. Um, my ex-husband was telling everyone I was crazy. Um, I didn't know what anybody knew. I knew that there were things that people were talking about, but I didn't know what it was. Um so going to a third party, expressing your concerns. And when I say a third party, that can be anyone from a financial planner, you know, meet with a financial planner, tell them I might be single soon. What do how much do I need to get out? Help me do this. And we do provide things like a financial planner so that someone will come in and say, you need this amount of money. Um, so it really is a situational thing. And for some people, they don't understand that it could be dangerous really, really quickly. Um, my ex-husband used to say things when we were in the heat of an argument like, this is getting really dangerous. Well, on my end, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. This isn't getting dangerous. It wasn't until I got outside of it and saw seriously all the things that were happening behind the scenes that I recognized that he really wanted to kill me. So, you know, I think emotional abuse, people are like, well, he doesn't hit me. He doesn't, I will tell you that there is never a situation where emotional abuse will not turn physical if you stay long enough. Because once the emotional side of keeping you in line, once you become so numb to it, you start turning it off. You can't, they can't get a reaction out of you. They have to necessarily keep ramping it up and ramping it up. And it will become physical. I don't I there is, you know, if there's given enough time, it will. And usually that line comes when you take a stand, you say you're leaving, is when it really does get dangerous. So although you think that you might not be in danger, I really would suggest that if you feel as if you know you're you're slightly afraid of your situation or you know that your husband's not being um truthful with you. It it is important to seek out somebody who you can trust, who it won't get back to anybody, who won't try to convince you of you know something then you already know who likes your husband and is like, oh, well, he's not that bad of a guy. Um, to somebody else he might not be.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Wow, that's so interesting. I we've had, and as you're talking, I'm thinking about all these women we've had on the show. One woman who was like squirreling away clothes. She would do laundry and pack it away and pack it away. And her husband thought, okay, she's just packing for our trip, whatever. And then in the middle of the night, she took the kids and left. And another woman who was in an emotional situation, and she said her husband would only he was not super physically violent, but would grab her face and little things like that. And she said it was actually her doctor who saved her from that marriage because he said he was like, I can't find anything physically wrong with you, but your heart is out of control, all these things. And he said, Let me ask you, how's your marriage? And that's when it clicked for her. So I love that you said an unbiased because it she had the same where everybody was like, He's a great guy. He's so generous, he's this, he's that. And she was like, But I feel like something is off. And it was somebody outside the situation who opened her eyes to it. So that's a great tip is to look outside your circle. Um, now this is a little bit lighter, but I know you mentioned the iTunes. Is there any other small day-to-day lifestyle things we don't think about that are affected when you're suddenly found in a single mom situation?

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Uh you know, everything is affected in in just a little way. You know, I I do remember I think one of the hardest days after Colin passed was I went to the doctor's office. And this is just a small thing, but I went to the doctor's office and you know, you have to fill out your health forms and fill out all the paper. And it said emergency contact. And I just remember thinking, I I don't have an emergency contact anymore. And that realization is, you know, it's such a life-altering thing when you suddenly recognize that you are on your own. It's almost as if you feel like you don't have anybody to lean on anymore. I will say that you can create illusions that you're leaning on someone when you're really not. It wasn't until I got on my second marriage that I recognized that not only was I doing everything on my own, he was sabotaging everything that I did and making it harder. But you somehow convince yourself that, oh, if I leave this marriage, I don't want to be alone. I don't want to do this all on my own. But I will say that 50% of people that do leave probably figure out not only were they doing it on their own, but it was being made harder because the person they were with was doing everything they could to sabotage and make it diff more difficult. Um and there are those people out there. And it's, you know, the more that I go out and I talk about this, um, I will say it it is shocking to me, people that I know, you know, from years back who have come out of the woodwork to tell me, like, oh, so-and-so, you know, we he was A, B, or C. And from the outside, these are the people that, you know, one of my friends who I'm very good friends with now, um, you know, when I first met her husband, I remember thinking, gosh, I wish, I wish that my husband was like this guy. He's just so in tune. And he's, you know, and it it took years for me to figure out that he was a narcissist. He was terrible to her. He was terrible to the kids. But he was very good at playing this role. And and that's what they do, you know, they just so I don't know if I got off topic, but yeah, I think unfortunately one of the hardest things that you lose is the identity that you're trying so hard to hold on to.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah, the idea of what you think you have. It's also a good reminder that you never know what somebody else is going through. And so comparison is the thief of joy. Like you can you can compare all day long, but you don't know what that experience is like. So you've had to rebuild twice. And with four kids, then six kids. What was the both of these experiences like for your kids? And I imagine, I mean, you you kind of said it in the beginning, like you were just in survival mode. So I imagine you were not healing and coping and communicating throughout the process. So are you picking up a lot of pieces still today and healing and doing that work now? Um, so yeah, talk to me about what the experience was like then and where you and your kids are now.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So when Colin passed away, um, you know, we had had 10 years of traveling with Tatum, maybe about six by then. And, you know, because Tatum was so sick and I was traveling in the United States, I was rarely home. You know, I always had the mindset um after I found out that Colin was sick all those months that I didn't want my children's childhood to be, you know, marred with uh sadness and and grief and loss and mom being gone. And so I became very, very, very good at pretending I was the queen of bouncing and everything's fine and don't look over there and let's have fun and let's not take anything serious and let's vacation and you know, and all of those things that I was compensating for not having what I considered to be all I ever wanted was a normal house. Like that's all I wanted, and I never could seem to get there. So I just became the master of disguise. And unfortunately, after my first husband died, I just kept keeping on with it. I didn't, I couldn't stop because it was almost like if I stopped and I looked around, I would surely be swallowed. So I just kept up with the facade and I decided I am just gonna put that in my past. I'm not gonna deal with it, I'm not gonna think about losing Colin. It happened, it's such, but I'm moving forward. And that I think is how I bounced into my second relationship because I just wanted for things to be what I wanted them to be, not what they were. So it wasn't until um when I got together with my second husband, he would not let me speak of my first husband. I was not allowed to put pictures up, I was not allowed to acknowledge him. Um, he became very angry, um, forced my children to call him dad, and really just tried to eliminate Colin from our world. And unfortunately, I went along with it. And I thought, well, maybe that's just healthier, you know, there's nothing we can do. We lost him and it was sad. And, you know, it was a long 16 months saying goodbye. Um, it wasn't until I got divorced the second time when I really looked around and thought, like, it's time to come to terms with all this. Stop pretending, stop pretending that everything's perfect and I live this perfect life and my children are happy and they're well adjusted. And they are, don't get me wrong. But I didn't want them to carry on the facade that I had as long as I can remember, because I never took help from anyone. I never was honest about how I was feeling. I was literally on autopilot. I was just surviving. Um, did I have joy in the midst of it? Sure. You know, like when I was with my kids, there was always joy to be had. But I think that sometimes when we the best things that we have in our arsenal protect ourselves and to get through something, if we don't recognize it's time to let them go and find a different way and just keep on keeping on, then they become very destructive to habits that that push us into things that we aren't prepared for. Um, but I also think that everybody has to come to the table at their own time. You know, everyone says, oh, don't get, you know, wait a year. I could have waited 10 years. I did. And until you are in a place where you are healed enough to deal with something, you can't. I I I can't stress that enough. There's no magic timeline. There's no magic. And I think for me, um, the fact that everyone was looking at me like, aren't you sad? Aren't you sad? And almost upset that I wasn't sad that I lost Colin. I started feeling really bad about myself. Like, did I not love him? You know, um, everybody thinks they know what they would do until they get there. And then it's a completely different ballgame.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yeah, I can only imagine. So talk to me about your book, Notes from a Blackberry. How and when did you decide to start writing your experience?

SPEAKER_00 40:02

So Notes from a Blackberry is the first in a series of three books. Um, actually, I wrote it um when Colin was first diagnosed. Um, we were coming off the throes of a Tatum, literally traveling across the United States for years, reconstructive airway surgery. And, you know, it was one of those things where she is, if I told the stories of things that I've been through with her, it's it truly is unimaginable. It was a roller coaster ride. You know, I'd take her in for a cold, and then the next thing I knew, I was reviving her. So I would take him to chemo, and I started writing her story because it was so incredulous and I was trying to process it. And while I would go to chemo, I had a BlackBerry. So I was writing her story. Well, first it started with I write our story, how we met, then flowed into Tatum, and then it flowed into him real time. And what I would do is I would piece those, you know, the sessions back to myself and I email it and you know, put it all together. So it actually sat on my laptop for 12 years. And then in the interim, I became a professional writer. And um I I always knew it was on my block on my laptop, but I didn't have, I wasn't in a place then where I could read it. It was too much for me. Um, coming out of the second situation and my in my divorce, I finally felt like it was time to rip that band age off, you know, and just and and read it and remember it and remember who I was. And so that's what I did. Um, and I got to the end of it, and I just remember thinking, gosh, you know, like as as chaotic as all of that was, the craziness in my life hadn't started yet till after he passed. And that's when really things kicked into high gear and got really bad. So um I read it and I thought, hopefully this can, you know, if you if you read the book and you give me some grace and you think, wow, she's doing the best she can, then you'll either give someone in your life who's going through something like that, you know, more grace than you're giving them now. Um, or give yourself a break because I I really, when I lost Colin, I did not like myself at all. Um, when when you're a caregiver and someone's looking to you and, you know, they really do think you can save them and you can't, you start believing it yourself. And um, it led to a lot of years of feeling, you know, like I didn't do the right thing. I didn't spend enough time with them. I didn't find them the right treatment. And and I really beat myself up. And I think that's what led me to accept somebody as a as a partner who, you know, told me I was terrible all the time and I wasn't a good person. And and I I felt like I deserved it. I I was just it almost felt cathartic. And I think that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

So wow. So tell me I know there's different situations, a military wife versus a woman in abuse situation versus a widow. What would you say is the first step for a woman who's lost her husband or a woman who's in a bad situation who's that makes the decision I need to leave, or a woman whose husband is deployed? What's step one of, okay, I gotta get, I gotta figure this out?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Again, I would say, you know, just getting verification from someone else that this is going on. Um it it's really hard for me to because even the situations that I've been in, you know, the the way that I approached losing Colin and the steps I took um were very different than, you know, escaping the marriage that I did. I think that one of the most important things for any woman out there to to really take heart and listen to is it's okay to ask for help. Like accept help, ask for help. Don't think you're burdening people. If someone says, What can I do to help? Give them something to do that they can do to help. I think as women, we're so conditioned to feel like we need to do everything, we need to stay in control. Asking someone either makes us feel indebted or it makes us feel less than, you know, uh, someone said this to me the other day. And, you know, I've heard it before, but it really rang true. It's like, don't deprive people of being able to help you either, because we all have been in a position where we feel good about being able to help someone. But somehow when you're on the other end of the coin, you feel like it's a burden. Um I will say that my road would have been a lot lighter all the way along had I let people in, had I been honest with people about how I was feeling, has had I, you know, really taken the veil off and stopped trying to be perfect because no one is perfect. Um, I think that's the first step is just acknowledging, first of all, that you have a problem because we can all dance our way through it. And I think secondly, is to lean on other people, whether that means a third party, whether that means somebody that you can confide in who's your best friend, being in it alone, I think, and and feeling like you're disingenuous or you're hiding a secret will keep you stuck because you don't want people to know that secret. But once I came out, you know, whether that was, you know, saying to people, I am so grief stricken, I can't move, although I look pretty good on the outside. Or whether that means, you know, I tell someone, you know, my husband's threatened to kill me, which nobody wants to say out loud. Yeah. But once you do those things, once you say them, once you acknowledge them, once you let them sink in, it's like the fear is gone because your worst nightmare is already out there. You know, people say that to me all the time. Like, how do you keep your, you know, your private life private and your and and to me, I don't because when I did, I wasn't me. I was a version of me that I wanted everyone to think I was. But I was constantly feeling like people are gonna find out what was really going on. People are gonna find out that I'm a pleaser, people are gonna find out that I was stupid. And all of those things really rob you of living the life you're supposed to be living.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Yeah. I agree. And I think too, just like you were saying, I mean, it's cheesy, but the truth will set you free. I think when we keep it inside, that becomes a a feeding ground for shame and guilt and all of these things that just eat us from the inside. And it's something I tell my boys all the time like, come to me, tell me. If if it deserves a consequence, then you get the consequence, you move on. But letting it fester is so much worse. And so we try to breathe that air of honesty and like you can always tell me, we'll take our lumps, but it's gonna feel so much better to get it off your chest. Um, so I think that's so good to start with that and just air it out and let it breathe. Um so we are getting to the end, but will you let my listeners know where to find more from you, how to connect with you and all of that?

SPEAKER_00 47:18

So I have um there's there's really three parts to what I do. Um the first is it in uh if you go to the website juliebarthauthor.com, um, it has all links on there. Um, there's a link for the CJB outreach. Um, it's CJB outreach.org. But again, they're all linked together. And that's our charity where you can get involved. You can read a little bit more about us. It needs to be updated, which I'm working on. Um now I'm the person that mans it. So if you reach out in any way, if you need help, please reach out if you want to get involved. You know, if you want to learn more information, if you're a company that's looking to, you know, hire women who for more gainful employment remote who's willing to do flex jobs. Um right now we're just really trying to build all sorts of networks. So um, and then thirdly, on uh at JulieBarthauthor.com, there is um a website for my daughter, the one that has special needs. Um she has primordial dwarfism and she had cancer when she was 13, but she's an artist. Um so all of her artwork is being sold and her jewelry and all the proceeds um from that website go to fund the charity. So if you want to get involved and find something that, you know, that inspires you, that tate's done too. Um so there's all different ways to get involved. And again, um I sometimes, you know, our our resources are limited right now. We're just starting out, we're just finding our way, we're we're doing the back work of it. Sometimes it just if you're looking for a third party, I I'm it. Um I do a lot of counseling, I get a lot of people, you know, just and it's amazing to me. I think it's not that misery loves company, but experience definitely helps somebody and just knowing someone else has been through it. Um, you know, just having somebody to say, I believe you. I I, you know, I counsel a lot of women and what I say to them at the end, because they typically come to me and they say, like, I couldn't have done it without you. My answer to them was always you, you could. But unfortunately, I, you know, I was just the mirror that reminded you of who you are. Because I think as moms, we forget who we were before we were moms. You know, we forget that we're crafty and smart and intelligent and that we can do things. You forget you can do things. Um, so sometimes somebody just holding up a mirror and saying, Hey, I I believe you, you don't deserve this. We can do this. I can help you get out of this, is all someone really needs.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

That's so beautiful. Now, Julie, I believe you believe in God. Um, so hopefully this last part doesn't freak you out, but I do something a little bit special on my show where leading up to the interview, I pray over my guest and I just ask God for any wisdom or insight or anything. And if I hear something, I share it with my guest at the end. Would you be okay? I do think I heard something for you. Is it okay if I share it with you?

unknown 50:16

Of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Okay, great. So it's so interesting. You were talking about just recently asking for help because it sounds like you have made huge strides in that area. But it's so interesting because that was kind of the whole theme of what I heard over you was I heard him say, let me do it and rest. And I don't know why this is making me emotional. I saw him wrapping you up in like this big fuzzy blanket and just telling you to rest and just like snuggling you on the couch. And he said, You don't have to do it alone. He's with you, and I think you know that. And I asked him, is this for a specific situation? And he said, no, it's a general temperament to do everything yourself. But in every situation, you can ask him how and just ask him that question, how, or you can ask him, handle it. If you're like at your limits and you just, you're like, God, I cannot answer that email. I cannot figure that thing out. You can say, can you just handle that for me? And in all those ways, just being intentional about giving it to him. Um, that's kind of the whole theme and message I heard over your life. So I hope that's encouraging and not discouraging. Um, but I'll leave you with that.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

No, it's not discouraging at all. You know, is as much as I come out here and I say this, I still have not learned my lesson. Um yeah. And I will leave you with one last right. I'll leave you with one last story that I just I think is hilarious. So I I've been um, you know, I'm in this little small town and I've been here for about nine years. And there's a a counselor that I see on and off. I haven't seen in a very long time, but she knew what was going on in my home and no one else did. And um, you know, I think after seeing her for about four years, again, on and off. And when when I went for my divorce, obviously the they were like, you, you know, go to counseling, we need it for the notes, and you need it. And so I just remember it was one of our final sessions. I said to her, You do know that I don't listen to anything you say. She said, I know, Julie. Because I was like, I listen to everything people say, and I go, mm-hmm. And then I do exactly what I want to do anyway. So I'm glad that you said that because I do, I do need that kick and reminder that like I'm not always right. Or it is easier sometimes to take advice, you know. I think people have been through a lot, you know, like Tatum and Colin. I think everyone's got this easy fix for you, and you're in a place where nothing's fixable. So you almost turn people off because you're like, you don't get it. You could never, you know, Tatum couldn't eat when she was a baby, and people used to say stuff like, Well, have you tried ice cream? And I just remember thinking, no, thank God you're here. You kiss like ice cream. Oh, thank God. And I think you start building those layers of you don't get it, you don't get it. And when you do that, you you really do build yourself into this, you know, isolation that you don't even see. So thank you for that. I appreciate it. You did give I I never cry, I teared a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

So I will keep praying for you. And I think it is a muscle, right? It's like when you come to a uh crossroads and you're like, I don't know how to do this, start asking how and then wait to see if something comes, if you get an idea, if somebody calls you. If and then as you start building that muscle, it'll become easier just to rely on him. Like I'm not asking you to rely on people because we are so flawed, but just remembering like, oh, I can ask him how, or I can ask him to handle it for me. And me learning that, because I'm thinking I'm just like you, has been a game changer. It's like before I get to the stress, I ask how, and then it immediately comes to me. And now it's getting to the repetition where it's like, okay, I don't have to do this alone. I'm getting used to not trying to do it alone. And so, but I do think it's a muscle and you know, have so much grace with yourself. But yeah, if that helps you, I hope it does.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

I hope I think it's probably helpful for everyone because you know, when you asked me, um, you know, what was hard? It really is hard in these situations to feel like you're gonna lose that person in your life. But as you said, and I say to people, but I like your take on it, is really the only person that you can ever rely on is yourself. And because you will always show up for you. You just have to, you know, be honest with yourself. So I like that you're including a higher power in that because yeah, I I I do I do know a lot of people are very religious in my world, and and it is, you know, I look at it and I think, gosh, that would be really nice to have that fullness. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Yes, you're so welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I'm I'll keep following your work. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, bye, Julie. Bye. This has been the Dead Mother Podcast. Remember, new episodes drop every Tuesday. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave a review. It really does help. Special thanks to Jose Cerna for our theme music and Katie Legou for our cover art.