Ozempic Envy, GLP-1 Microdosing, and the Weight Loss Wars | Ep 355

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The psychology behind weight loss methods has created a moral battleground where people judge themselves and others based on whether they use traditional lifestyle approaches or pharmaceutical interventions like GLP-1 drugs.

People are losing 40 pounds on Ozempic or secretly microdosing GLP-1 drugs, while underground resentment brews between those who "did it the hard way" and those accused of taking "shortcuts."

We're keeping it real about the psychology behind the Weight Loss Wars using a (more reasonable) systems-based approach that eliminates judgment while optimizing for what actually matters: YOUR sustainable results.

Main Takeaways:

• "Ozempic envy" reveals more about our relationship with effort than with results
• Fat loss is an engineering problem, not a moral issue
• GLP-1 microdosing creates fascinating case studies in behavior modification (and still requires building lifestyle skills)
• The most successful people combine external tools with internal skill development
• Stop keeping score of who's doing it "right" and start engineering systems that work sustainably for YOU

Episode Mentioned:

• Eat More To Lose Weight? (The Iron Triangle of Fat Loss)

Timestamps:

0:00 - The Weight Loss Wars and moral superiority
3:00 - What is "Ozempic Envy"?
8:00 - GLP-1 microdosing
11:00 - Why we assign moral value to effort and struggle
15:00 - GLP-1s and/or lifestyle skills
18:00 - Designing YOUR system (ignoring distractions)
22:00 - Lifelines vs. shortcuts
24:00 - How to stop the weight loss wars

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Transcript

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Introducing the Weight Loss Wars

Philip Pape 0:02

your co-worker drops 40 pounds in six months on ozempic and suddenly everyone's questioning whether your two years of lifting and tracking macros really counts . Meanwhile , people are secretly microdosing glp-1 drugs , trying to hack their appetite without admitting they're using medication . And then there's the underground resentment brewing between those who did it the hard way and those taking what some see as pharmaceutical shortcuts . Today we're discussing the psychology behind what I call the weight loss wars , why fat loss has become a battleground of moral superiority and how a systems thinking approach can help you navigate this mess without losing your sanity or your gains . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency .

Philip Pape 0:57

I'm your host certified nutrition coach , philip Pape , and today we're going to tackle one of these emotionally charged topics in fitness at the moment , and that is the social and psychological warfare happening around the GLP-1 drugs . You know them Ozempic , manjaro , all of them . This isn't about the medications , though . This is about how we assign moral value to different paths toward the same goal , and why understanding the systems behind our judgments can free us from both the envy and the guilt . So , if you're considering these drugs , if you're avoiding them on principle , if you're secretly resenting someone who uses them . I think today's episode will give you a framework for thinking clearly about tools , outcomes and what drives sustainable change . And before we get into it , if you've been nodding along already and thinking , yeah , I need to stop second guessing myself , focus on myself and just build a system that works for me , crowd out the noise , forget about all the nonsense and the distractions . I don't want you to just listen and binge my content . I want you to take action inside wits and weights . Physique university is where you can do that . You'll get the tools to train more intelligently , to eat more flexibly and with clarity , to stop getting caught up in other people's methods and hopping around and getting overwhelmed with all the craziness in social

Get a Free Nutrition Plan When You Join Physique University

Philip Pape 2:18

media .

Philip Pape 2:18

And we've worked with many , many people who are on these drugs and , again , you may not be taking them . You may not wanna take them . Today's episode , I think , covers a lot of areas of the psychology around this , but we've definitely worked on people , with people on drugs like terzepatide , helping them build the foundation they need to eventually transition off of them while maintaining the results . Not that you have to do that , but a lot of people want to do that . So if you want a framework for this we just relaunched at a much lower price , more accessible to so many more people . Used to be 87 a month , now it's 27 a month and I still have my exclusive link in the show notes . If you use it , I'm also going to throw in a custom nutrition plan that I build for you . The link is in the show notes . I'll see you there .

Philip Pape 3:00

But let's talk about today's topic , what we're actually dealing with , because the conversation is already happening . It's happening everywhere . It's on social media , it's in the office , it's in person , it's everywhere . But I think most people don't have the language for what's really going on because it's so new and we're so emotionally charged

The Psychology of Ozempic Envy

Philip Pape 3:19

with this stuff .

Philip Pape 3:20

So I came up with a phrase called Ozempic Envy . I haven't even Googled it . Maybe it's trademarked , I don't know . It just came to my head one day , and ozempic envy is what I'm calling the emotional and the social tension between people who lose weight using these drugs the GLP-1 receptor agonists , right and those who do it through what we traditionally think of as lifestyle changes . What I'm all about on wits and weights well before these drugs came around , but I think it's more complex , it's more nuanced . It's not just the jealousy we're talking about here , because on one side , you have people who've spent years trying to do the quote unquote right thing , the lifestyle changes , mastering their nutrition , grinding through all the roadblocks along the way , learning to to love vegetables , like I did , building the discipline from following a process to hit the gym consistently , to train consistently , to , to do all the behavioral changes involved , and they see that their identity is at least partly built on that effort . Right , that that's like a transformation story . Many of you are going through that right now . Many of you have in fact said , hey , I'm not , I want to do this , naturally , I don't want to go on drugs , right , and it's that mentality and I'm not judging anyone on any side of this equation . Please stick with me . You're going to see where this comes out the other side .

Philip Pape 4:39

So that's , on one side , people who've been trying to make the lifestyle changes , and then on the other side , you have people taking the medications inject themselves with some aglutide or trisepatide or one of these , and they might drop 15 to 20% of their body weight in a year with what the outside sees as minimal effort . Right , and we know about the research . The data is there . This is quite a miracle drug . At this point the STEP trials are referenced all the time , step that show an average weight loss of about 15% with semaglutide versus maybe 2% with placebo right . So it helps a lot of people who have been struggling , even when they're trying to lose weight , lose fat , get healthy . And it's obvious why people might need , want , be prescribed , desire whatever adjective or is that an adjective verb you want to use for these drugs .

Philip Pape 5:31

Where I think it gets interesting about this whole Ozempic envy thing is I don't think the envy right and envy comes from different groups here . It's not about the weight loss , but the story that comes with the weight loss . About the weight loss , but the story that comes with the weight loss . When someone loses weight through what we'll call the traditional methods , right , they're not just doing the thing they're , they're gaining some sort of narrative and identity shift . Like I'm the type of person who can make choices and stick to hard things , I've overcome my impulses . Let's say I've , I've earned this , I've earned this body , and then that becomes part of their identity . Now I'm not saying there aren't equally as many unhealthy identities that have come along when someone has lost weight , I'll say the through through behavioral methods , but not necessarily the right way .

Philip Pape 6:18

And that's where it gets really complicated . And I'm not even talking about the drugs when I say that . I'm talking about crash dieting . Right , crash dieting detoxes all the things that are not sustainable that we talk about , and then when someone gets results of weight loss and they've done the medication , it can feel like that story gets devalued for them , even if they are in parallel doing the lifestyle changes . And honestly , I believe it's a crime for a doctor to prescribe the medication and not give any guidance or advice or direction on the weight training or the lifting weights to hold on to muscle , to eating protein , to making sure you don't eat too little , because I've seen this problem where you just don't have an appetite and you really under eat and it doesn't help you . You crash diet , you lose weight fast , but then it's not sustainable unless you stay on the drug .

Philip Pape 7:10

And so I want to help everybody through this message . And yet somebody who's used the medication , whether or not they've done it the quote unquote right way supporting themselves with lifestyle , they can feel like their story gets devalued and that their effort doesn't matter as much as someone else . And that's where all this friction comes from . It's like jealousy all over the place . The envy is everywhere , on all sides , right ?

Philip Pape 7:28

So I want to start there as the premise and then I want to touch on some side topics related to this that I see in the industry right now and a big one right now

Microdosing GLP-1 Drugs

Philip Pape 7:36

is microdosing . Okay , microdosing and it gets fascinating here because I see a lot of rationalization going on and when you think of behavioral engineering , this is a good story . Some people are microdosing these drugs and all that means is you're taking a lower than prescribed dose of the medications and it's not because you can't afford the full dose , right , it's because you , you're deliberately doing that to help with your appetite , your appetite awareness . Maybe you are the type of person who feels like I I want to split the difference , I don't want to go all out , all into the drug , but I want to try it and see if it helps my appetite and get that nudge toward better eating habits while improving the lifestyle . Okay , again , no judgment on that , but I'm but . So the but .

Philip Pape 8:19

Here is what I think people are doing in some cases . Not everyone is maybe trying to hack their own psychology just a bit , right , it's kind of that building that safety net of reduced hunger , but then they don't want to override their natural signals . So I understand that . I understand the trade-off and compromise they're trying to make . They're trying to engineer this middle ground between pharmaceutical intervention and , I hate to say , willpower , because we all know we can develop healthy eating habits without willpower . That's what we do here when we talk about the tools to change your behavior .

Philip Pape 8:53

But I feel like some people you know they're frustrated . They feel like it does take willpower and , I'll be honest , it takes action . There is action that is required , like getting the cookies off of your counter into your drawer that takes action . There is action that is required Like getting the cookies off of your counter into your drawer that takes an action to change your environment right . Those little things , those are all actions . That is true . And whether you want to argue that's willpower or not , I'm talking about the white knuckling like in the moment . Stress is high , emotion's high and then I'm going to all of a sudden , just for the first time ever , choose not to eat the cookies , right ? We know that . That's not how it works , so it's understandable .

Philip Pape 9:27

People want that little bit of a nudge and from a like , a systems design perspective , thinking like an engineer , with data and tools . It makes perfect sense , like , if your goal is long-term behavior change , you want the minimum effective , the most efficient intervention that still allows you to build skills and habits . If you have too much of that intervention , like the full dose of the drugs , you're probably thinking okay , I'm going to become dependent and I'm not really going to learn the thing because I'm getting miswired signals to my brain , right , just by virtue , by definition of how it works . But if I have too little like or none at all , I don't get the results . I need to build momentum .

Philip Pape 9:55

So I want a little bit of a kick in the pants for my brain related genes , my appetite , and I guess I guess the challenge here is , right now we don't have clinical data on the microdosing you know to , to know how effective it is really , although we could extrapolate and we could use basic math and like okay , well , if I take half the dose , I might have to have the result , but we can't oversimplify , right ? So people are essentially running experiments on themselves and then we have anecdotal reports , we have Instagram posts , we have podcasters , we have whole programs built around micro dosing and again , I don't want to sound judgmental toward that , I haven't tried it myself . Heck , if I did it today , if I started it , would I find that , oh , this is actually an amazing tool . Now , when I do a fat loss phase , maybe I can micro dose . It takes away the appetite and I can more easily control myself , and I can more easily control myself . But then the other side of me says no , I really want to inherently build it in to my system , right , not through willpower , but hey , I plan my meals out to have more fibrous foods , knowing that fiber gives me more volume , knowing that that's gonna help with my hunger signals , and then it allows me to eat in a way that I wanna eat for the long term . Right , and can you do that while microdosing on GLP-1s ? Yes , and I also help people do that while they're on there so that they could transition off of them is kind of the point .

Philip Pape 11:10

But , but , but and I'm going to keep saying but , because I want to hedge myself here and there when it comes to psychology and when it comes to judging people , because I want to zoom out and look at why this creates the emotional reactions that we have A lot of . It is about us . A lot of it's about us as individuals , not about you , not about others . By you I mean the other right At its core . It's not about Ozempic , it's how we assign moral value to different types of effort , because we have a deeply ingrained belief we're all human beings that the human struggle , the

Struggle vs. Efficiency: Moral Value

Philip Pape 11:40

struggle , equals virtue . Right Sisyphus , pushing the rock up the mountain from Greek mythology struggle equals virtue , that the harder path is the more noble path .

Philip Pape 11:50

And admittedly , I talk about doing hard things all the time . But I'm also talking about being efficient and minimum effective dose . So do these reconcile with each other ? And so if I'm an engineer and I said let's go with this more complicated solution because it's going to be automatically better than a simple one , because it's harder , that's nonsense . That's not how optimization works . So it's always tricky when I use language on this show we talk about like smarter , not harder . Well , maybe , maybe not more efficient , maybe it might be hard . It might be hard in a different way than something else . Is hard like hard beating yourself against the wall , cracking your skull , not getting a result , is worse than a hard that moves you forward by leaps and bounds . And so when someone says , like I did it the hard way . What they're really saying is I want credit for the difficulty of my method , not just the outcome . Right , and that makes sense psychologically , because effort justification that's a cognitive bias . We value things more when we worked harder for them . Yes , but we've got method and we've got outcome . And what are we actually trying to optimize for ? So I'm going to go back to the whole engineering thing about optimization .

Philip Pape 12:59

If the goal is sustainable fat loss and improved health , the quote unquote best method is the one that achieves that goal most reliably for the individual , with the fewest negative side effects , at the lowest cost . Not just financial costs , time costs , stress costs , opportunity costs , all of it . And if you're not sure what I mean by opportunity costs , that's the cost of not making a choice , that's the cost of having chosen something different . So for some people that might be GLP-1 medications this is my point . For others it might be structured nutrition and training and for many people guess what ? It might be a combination of both , at different levels of both , including microdosing . And so the judgment comes in when we start conflating the method with our character , with our identity , when we start thinking about how the way you lose weight says something about who you are as a person . So they're all tools , is my point .

Philip Pape 13:47

If I'm going to give you the TLDR here Now again I mentioned , if you're on a medication like this GLP-1 , or you're considering it long term , you're going to need more than the drug to create lasting change . I mean you could be on the drug for the rest of your life . I suppose That'd get pretty darn expensive and I don't think anybody wants to depend on anything like that the rest of their life period . I take a what do you call it ? Biologic for a condition I have and I technically have to be on that the rest of my life because there's not really a way to deal with it Otherwise . I don't want to do that , but I kind of have to , barring some extreme or some new cure that comes along .

Join us in Physique University

Philip Pape 14:22

But when it comes to this stuff , we can work with you . You can listen to the show . You can put in basic principles of food planning , meal planning , meal prep , tracking , food volume right and be successful . But sometimes you need others to help you do that and you need ideas from people and you need to crowd out the noise . We do this in Physique University . I just want to mention that one more time . We've helped a lot of folks in there do this exact thing . I can hook you up with some individuals who are on , for example , teresapatide and have come off , and there's a strategic way we do that . By the way , that's not just hey , come off and you're done . It's how do we align that with the calories you're eating and the phases of training and physique development ? So , physique university 27 a month used to be 87 . Now it's 27 .

Philip Pape 15:07

I've got an exclusive link in the show notes where if you use that link , I'll get triggered , not triggered , I'll get notified and then I'll know to give you a custom nutrition plan for free , instead of the add on . Like , if you go through the public link you have to pay for it . So it'd be free and I don't want you to just say , like , throw up your hands and say I need to rely on these meds forever If you want to come off , if you want to build your system alongside it for your lifestyle , but still stay on it for a while , or microdose or whatever , we can help you do that . So use the link in the show notes for that . So how do we think about this more clearly . Well , I want to propose a framework that focuses on your system , on designing your system , rather than moral judgment . And I first need to be clear about something . Okay , if I haven't been already I absolutely support people who choose to use , or need to use , glp-1 drugs .

Philip Pape 15:55

If you have significant weight to lose for your health , if you've spent a lifetime struggling with appetite regulation , emotional eating , which can be genetic , brain-related genes I had Stephan Guine on the show quite a while back talking about that it can also be the result of years of I hate to say , damage , but years of suppressed metabolism and fat gain due to yo-yo dieting and restriction . For that type of person , these medications can be life-changing tools . There's no shame in using every tool available to improve your health and quality of life , but and this is crucial the medication is one component of a larger system . You still need the lifestyle foundation to make the results sustainable . Even individuals like Dr Spencer Nadalsky , who praises these drugs , says it's the drugs and the lifestyle . It's not just the drug . Could it be just the lifestyle ? For sure , but some people benefit from having the added tool of the drug , and so , if you think of the whole compendium of fat loss tools , right , your whole toolbox .

Philip Pape 16:58

They're all different components in a system . You have the behavioral components habit formation , meal planning . You've got physiological components , like the strength training , like eating your protein . You have the psychological components , like managing your stress , like eating your protein . You have the psychological components , like managing your stress or how you perceive your stress , like sleep , optimizing your sleep , but from a psychological perspective . And you've got and I don't , that's a whole separate episode and now you've got the pharmacological components . So behavioral , physiological , psychological , pharmacological and each component has trade-offs . That's what it comes down to . The behavioral components require your time , they require developing skills , but they do build long-term resilience and capability . Pharmacological components are going to work faster but may create dependency if you don't pair them with skill building . So I want to help you build your skills , whether or not using these other tools at the same time .

Fat Loss as an Engineering Problem

Philip Pape 17:54

And the question isn't which component is morally superior ? Right , that's like there's no good or bad foods . We talk about that . The question is what combination of components creates for you the most robust and sustainable system .

Philip Pape 18:08

So if you've been dieting for decades yo-yo dieting and you've developed a dysfunctional relationship with your hunger cues , a GLP-1 drug might provide stability , to learn proper portion control and food selection so that the hunger cues aren't so utterly distracting that it prevents you from doing that . It's not a crutch , it's more like scaffolding right , when you see scaffolding on a building it's going to go away , but you can build everything and support everything while you build the building . But you still have to build the building . You still have to build the skills . The medication is not going to teach you how to eat for satiety . In fact it overrides those signals , which makes it a little bit more challenging . But it gives you the time , the space , to build that skill .

Philip Pape 18:53

In fact , I mentioned microdosing Many clients I have . They've reduced the dose as they've increased the food volume and their hunger starts to go up slowly , while their ability to naturally manage hunger signals also goes up at the same time . So the skill is going up , up , up up , the dosage coming down , down , down , down . Eventually the dose is gone and the skill is at its max . That make sense . Hopefully you can visualize that right . And so there's your training , there's your sleep and stress , there's all the lifestyle things right , and the medication is not going to create those habits for you .

Philip Pape 19:28

So yeah , I get the envy or the jealousy for people who've just taken the drug , lost a bunch of weight . They don't do anything else and they're walking around like look at me , I get the envy for that . I also think who cares Like don't worry about them , it's not going to work out for them in the longterm unless they also do the skills . And if you're one of those people listening to me , no moral judgment to you . If you've never built the skills and weren't even sure you had to , or didn't know where to go , come talk to us , join us at Physique University . This is the positive lens that I'm trying to share here is I'm not going to judge you , I'm going to help you . So the reframe for this episode is fat loss is not a moral issue , it's just an engineering problem . It's a an engineering problem . It's a biological engineering problem .

Philip Pape 20:12

You have inputs like food , activity , training , stress , sleep , genetics , hormones , medication yes , medication , that's an input , right ? Because guess what ? We're all on all sorts of medications beyond GLP-1 drugs . You might be on a statin , you might be on HRT , whatever . Those are the inputs . It's data . You have the outputs your energy level , your body composition , your health markers , your performance , your training , progress , et cetera . Your job or our job with you , if you want . The help is to design that system that reliably converts the inputs you can control into the outputs you want .

Philip Pape 20:43

And some people need more tools or different tools than others . Period . Some people need more scaffolding . Some people need more intervention and more support . It doesn't make them weaker . It doesn't make them weaker . It doesn't make them less disciplined , it just makes them different . That's it . That's it okay .

Philip Pape 20:58

So when you see someone losing weight on Ozempic , instead of thinking that's cheating , try thinking that's an interesting solution to a complex problem . I wonder what are the components that they are using to make it sustainable ? That's an objective way to frame this Kind of maybe clumsy way to say it too . For those of you who are more concise writers than me , feel free to rephrase . So when you see someone who's putting in a lot of effort over , say , a two year period to transform themselves , with tracking their macros , with using fat loss and muscle building phases , going to the gym four days a week , you know , instead of thinking , okay , that's the only way to do it , just say , look , that's impressive dedication , you know . I wonder what internal and external support systems made that possible . Yeah , okay . So

Sustainable Systems for Long-Term Success

Philip Pape 21:49

I want to . I want to .

Philip Pape 21:50

I want to share something , just one last thought with you here , because I think the people who are people who are most successful with these drugs long-term are often the same people who would have been successful with traditional methods if they never did the drug and they had the support earlier . I truly believe that . I truly believe that I think , having said that it might've been extremely difficult to do so , I'm believe that I think , having said that , it might've been extremely difficult to do so . I'm not saying that , I'm not saying it's not difficult , and I don't think they're using the medication to avoid doing that . I think they're using it to make building those habits easier while they address what are oftentimes very serious health concerns or years of appetite dysfunction . Come on , guys , let's have some empathy for people . I'm sick of all the moralizing and the judgment out there . Just stop it . And if you're following somebody on Instagram who's just hammering these people , unfollow them . Just unfollow them .

Philip Pape 22:51

Emotional eating since childhood , who tried every diet imaginable , and for them , the GLP-1 meds were not a shortcut . They were a lifeline that gave them just a little bit of breathing room to learn what normal hunger and satiety , feel like I can think of two or three clients right off the top of my head . One person , a woman , who never lifted in her life . She was in her 60s taking Ozempic . We got her training , we got her eating more food volume , really loving to throw in vegetables to her lunch and dinner , and it didn't take a lot , but it was enough to get her body recalibrated to where it needed to be so she could come off those drugs . It's incredible .

Philip Pape 23:19

Now the flip side that might maybe it surprises you even more is some of the people who are most vocal about doing things naturally are using their struggle as a form of identity protection . They are so invested in being the person who can do hard things that they'd rather suffer than admit a tool might help . So there's a difference between doing hard things in a productive way and doing them in a way that's just I don't wanna say stupid , but it's holding you back . And both patterns reveal the same underlying truth of the universe that sustainable change requires external tools and internal development . You can't inject new habits out of nowhere , but you also can't will away decades of biological and psychological programming and so , I think , a really robust system , which is what we're about ?

Philip Pape 24:25

Wits and weights . That's what we're about . It combines the best of both . They use whatever tools are available behavioral , pharmaceutical , technological , social that they're comfortable . They're about identity , about effort , about what we think we deserve credit for , and the fact that I use the word wars intentionally , because we don't want to be dealing with wars .

Philip Pape 24:44

Do we in this space right ? It's a systems design problem

Moving Beyond Judgment and Moralizing

Philip Pape 24:50

. It's not a moral judgment contest , and then the conversation can shift and you can hear a little bit of emotion and passion with me today , and hopefully it's not directed in a negative way , but more in a positive of think of how many more people , think of how many more people we can help if they just understood that it's okay to combine tools and process together like this to to get their result . And it's not whether somebody earns it , it's whether you build the system , you can maintain and develop the skills . That's it . It's skills . It's skills . Guys , you know , some people are gonna do that with the drugs . Some people will do it with macros and progressive overload . Many are gonna do it with a combination of a bunch of tools that we haven't even thought of yet . Right , there's more to come . Who knows ? Maybe , maybe , uh , what is it called ? Myostatin blockers are going to become a tool in the future and people everybody's going to be jacked . I don't know right . Your job isn't really to judge the tools . I think your job is to engineer the system that works for you . Forget all the noise , forget judging other people . Be supportive of people , empathize , right . If you need something , you need something . Stop keeping score of who's doing it the right way . Just do it . Just do it for you , have fun , reach out , join Physique University .

Philip Pape 25:57

And if you enjoyed this episode which I admit is a complex issue and I hope I gave it the nuance it deserved I want you to check out a different episode called Eat More to Lose Weight the triangle . Sorry , I butchered that Eat more to lose weight the iron triangle of fat loss . It's episode 204 . I'm gonna link to it in the show notes , and that episode is about how you can't optimize for everything at once and have to make smart trade-offs , which I think is really apropos for what we talked about today . So , episode 204 , eat more to lose weight the iron triangle of fat loss . Until next time , keep using your wits lifting those weights and remember the best tool is the one that gets the job done sustainably . This is Philip Pape , and you've been listening to Wits and Weights . I'll talk to you next time .