Flawthentic ME
Flawthentic ME
075: Fat Babies, Skinny Teens: South Asian Beauty Paradox with Dr. Madhu Jawanda and Dr. Navdeep Hundal
Ever heard "don't go out in the sun" growing up? Those seemingly innocent comments about our appearance leave lasting imprints on how we see ourselves.
In this profound conversation with Dr. Madhu Jawanda and Dr. Navdeep Grewal, we dive deep into the complex relationship South Asian women have with their bodies through different life stages.
Dr. Madhu and Dr. Nav, both physicians with over 25 years of experience and founders of the Avaaz podcast, share their professional insights and personal stories about navigating cultural beauty standards.
- From wanting "chubby babies" but expecting teenage girls to be thin, to comments about skin colour and height, we unpack how these contradictory messages shape our self-perception from childhood through adulthood.
- The statistics are striking—up to 84% of women experience body dissatisfaction, with South Asian communities facing unique cultural pressures. This dissatisfaction doesn't just affect how we feel when looking in the mirror; it impacts career choices, relationships, and even whether we seek proper healthcare.
- We explore how body image issues affect men too, with up to 30% experiencing similar struggles.
- We also discuss the truth about trending practices like intermittent fasting (hint: it may not be right for women), examine the real need for supplements, and share meaningful advice for young people struggling with body image.
Your body is beautiful not because it meets arbitrary standards, but because it allows you to experience life. It deserves kindness, gratitude, and recognition for all it enables you to do. Listen in, and perhaps find a new way to view the body you've been living in all along.
You can reach out to Dr. Madhu and Dr. Nav at Avaaz Podcast.
Instagram: avaaz_voice
You Tube: AvaazPodcast
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Don't go out in the sun. Kali ho, tangi right. We've all heard that. I don't say that to my kids at all. I just say wear sunscreen.
Speaker 2:And it's surprising that by the time you hit 12, like probably a good 50% of them or more are already starting to talk about body image. They're already starting to talk about you know, I'm too fat or I'm not tall enough or I have too much acne.
Speaker 3:This is Flthentic Me, a self-love podcast for South Asian women, A place where we celebrate self-love even when we feel imperfect or flawed. A safe space where you can be raw, real and authentic. And here's your host, self-love and mindset coach, Sunny Lamba. Welcome back to Flaw Authentic Me podcast. I'm your host, Sunny Lamba, and today I have not one but two guests with me. My guests today are actually the founders of the Avaaz podcast. Avaaz helps unlock the secrets of women's health, and especially with a South Asian focus. Let me introduce both my guests.
Speaker 3:I'm super excited for this one because we have a topic that's very close to my heart. So with me I have Dr Madhu Jawanda. She is a family physician based in Surrey, BC, with over 25 years of experience In her practice. She aims to empower her patients, especially women, to live their best lives. Due to her advocacy for the South Asian community during the pandemic, she was recognized as one of Vancouver's top 50. And she continues to champion health equity and awareness in her daily life. And I also have Dr Nav. She is a medical doctor and, once again with 25 years of experience, she's the co-founder of South Asian COVID Task Force and an advocate for South Asian health issues. She has worked tirelessly to combat medical and health misinformation and to promote health equity. She's passionate about providing culturally relevant health education, especially for South Asian women, and she has appeared on mainstream and ethnic radio stations, and I'm so honored to have both of them with me here today. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2:Sunny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks so much. We're looking forward to it.
Speaker 3:I am as well. So I'm going to jump right into this, and my first question is how did Avaaz come to life?
Speaker 1:Well, I think Avaaz, for both of us, came to life when we realized we were sort of pulled in to be advocates during COVID for the South Asian community and we both did not understand the depth of what a disconnect the South Asian community seems to have with health information and communication. And so, when we saw the disconnect happening during COVID and, as you know, we were all overwhelmed the South Asian community seems to have with health information and communication. And so when we saw the disconnect happening during COVID and, as you know, we were all overwhelmed with COVID information but it really wasn't getting to our culture in a relevant way. So we decided to expand this to other health areas of concern through the podcast.
Speaker 2:Now, that's exactly it. So we just discovered that we had the ability to use our medical backgrounds and our knowledge of both the English language and English culture, as well as the South Asian cultures, and be able to bring, to be able to help, patients from the South Asian communities.
Speaker 3:And I'm so glad I was listening to your podcast and the conversations about the one that you're talking about. How much the sugar goes in cha, right, like things like that. We don't realize it. I know I talk to my friends and they're like, oh, I'm not having any sugar, and then I see them drinking cha with like three spoons of sugar, and also they would talk about endometriosis and so many things that I believe our community, we go to the doctor and they give us a prescription and we walk away. But that empowerment by knowing that information, that access to health education, is so important. So thank you for doing that.
Speaker 3:Okay, so we decided among the three of us that we're going to talk about something that kind of goes hand on hand with my podcast Flaw-auth. The idea is to dismantle the beliefs that the world projects onto us, and when I say beliefs, most of us look at those beliefs as flaws. So, for example, oh, I am short, so I am not beautiful. Or I am 40, so I am not beautiful, you know, and not just that, there's so many like that whole idea of beauty, the messages that the world gives us. Women are not supposed to do this, the gender roles. So my idea is to tell people that these are really not flaws. These are the things that make you authentic and that's why Flaw Authentic that's the name. So I thought let's talk about body image, because I'm sure in your 25 years of experience, you've had tons of experiences where people are struggling with body image. What are some of the unspoken messages that South Asian girls or women receive about their bodies? And I know many that I have received, but I want to hear from you.
Speaker 2:I can from the experience of having daughters myself that are of an age where they are. They are very much receptive of body image through society and social media and we'll get into that in a bit. But things like I tell my daughter you shouldn't eat that for breakfast, it it's not healthy, you should have that, have this, and that may come across to her as well. You're. You're telling me what is me, what is how it is not. But that means you're judging me, you're judging my body. Or if I tell her with friends to this party during the daytime and they have a pool, so maybe don't wear a bikini because they're South Asians, or say she would be like, well, why shouldn't I wear a bikini? Because are you judging me for my body? So that's my personal experience with it.
Speaker 1:I think for me, just I'll talk about myself. You know we let's start with me. I think that when you're growing up, there's a lot of body image issues and they start and evolve as you age. There are different body image issues. So I start and evolve as you age. They're different body image issues.
Speaker 1:So I grew up in Edmonton, alberta, where everyone was Caucasian, so no one talked about upper lip hair and my mother's generation miraculously had no hair. So that was the first body image issue I remember is just the upper lip hair, okay. And then, moving forward, just um, when I grew up, uh, skin color, that's a body image issue. So I remember being in grade three and this is, uh, those core memories and this, uh, this uh girl. She was Filipino and I remember this because her father later on, when I was in medical school in Edmonton, was actually a physician there. So she said to me why are you so dark? And I had no clue that I was dark compared to all of the Caucasian people and her, and I just said I think the sun just likes me better, like that was my answer.
Speaker 1:I had no clue and I just I just thought oh, when you go out in the sun because that's the other thing you hear from your mother don't go out in the sun, right? We've all heard that. I don't say that to my kids at all. I just say wear sunscreen. I could care less what your skin color is yeah so those were two things.
Speaker 1:that another thing for me personally, then, when you start getting older uh, when you're 16 onwards is fitting the beauty image and as a person who was straddling two cultures of the Canadian Alberta culture versus the South Asian Punjabi, bollywood kind of culture it was very difficult to manifest and be that perfect thing and also keep your reputation intact, get good grades, get into medical. It was. When you reflect on it, it's actually ridiculous. So I think body image issues continue then when, as we evolve as women postpartum to look good, being menopausal and maintaining your weight and everything and being a working woman, having kids and still having it all together and looking wonderful I think body image issue affects everybody at different stages in their lives.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And I'm going through that phase of graying hair. And that's another one, because now I'm like I'm getting to that point where I'm almost convinced that I don't want to color my hair anymore. But two weeks in and I'm like I think I need to color now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And everything you said, madhu, like, I grew up in India, so I can't even imagine here growing up with other cultures who are probably fairer and fairer skin, but I grew up in India. My sister is very fair, my sister is tall and I'm this 5'1". My skin color is way lighter now, but growing up I was out in the sun and I was dark, and the one thing I kept hearing over time is Right, dark. And the one thing I kept hearing over time is Right. So and I grew up and I struggled with the self-worth for a long time Because I felt that I am dark, I'm short, no one wants to get married to me, no one's going to love me, like that's how deep it goes. So, bringing that into your experience as doctors, what have you seen? How has this impacted girls or women, and how does it show up then in the medical world, in their health, maybe also?
Speaker 2:perception when body image occurs. And by body image I mean how do we think that other people perceive us? How does the world see us? And when we look in the mirror, how do we see ourselves compared to how other people see us? And that starts so young.
Speaker 2:We've learned that children often have internalized stereotypes about their body size at a young age, and it's surprising that by the time you hit 12, like probably a good 50% of them or more are already starting to talk about body image.
Speaker 2:They're already starting to talk about, you know, I'm too fat, or I'm not tall enough, or I have too much acne, you know. So they're already looking at their body image from that area. And that comes across as spilling over into our medical world when we see them at their certain ages, because they're not content with their weight, or they're not content with their skin type, or they're not content with the type of hair, whether it's curly or straight, they want what they don't have. So I feel not necessarily outright eating disorders, but even sort of the subtle ways in which we see patients where image is a very distinct reason for their coming to see us. On top of that, you have actual eating disorders like anorexia, bulimia and risk food intake and all that kind of stuff. So that's more sort of commonly what we're determining to see as physicians, as healthcare providers, but it's more subtle than that.
Speaker 1:It's more like a body dysmorphia. It's like you see yourself as something else in your mind and what you really are is is not that at all. And what I'm finding is is, um, it's affecting boys as well. So we predominantly in girls, for sure, like in women, right, but I definitely am seeing it more and more in young men and I wasn't seeing that before and I know we'll touch on this later on, but I would give credit or discredit to social media, tiktok, filters, all these things. I think it creates a very unrealistic expectation of what you should look like. I think when we look at even Bollywood, hollywood actors and we see the access as they have to chefs, to personal training, to plastic surgery, to Botox, it's very unrealistic and I don't I personally don't think it's a healthy way to live life. I think eating healthy, exercising sure, you can use whatever moisturizers, sunscreen, all that stuff but taking it to an extreme and trying to tell people this is normal is ridiculous.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, I totally agree, and I have a boy, I have a 13 year old, so I really this interests me so much. My son was very skinny when he was born. He was very small and like six months old and they're like, oh, you need to feed him more. He's so skinny, he's so skinny, you got to feed him more. And as he started growing one year, two years old, every time I would meet family, these were the things You're not feeding him enough, he's not eating, and I never allowed that to affect me. I said, hey, look at him, he doesn't sit, he's so active, he's jumping around the whole day. He's okay, he's fine, don't worry about it. But sometimes I feel that, okay, he was two or three or four, but did he? Is he listening to these messages? And then, as you said, now it's affecting men too, thanks to social media and all these unrealistic standards. Now he's 13. And I feel sometimes that how is he taking that?
Speaker 1:Well, you raise a really interesting point, because I see this as a family doctor all the time and I think Nav will agree with this in her own experiences with patients and even family and the South Asian community. When babies are born in our culture, we want chubby, fat babies, right yeah if they're not and hi, the nipalani kandani, this is whatever, right?
Speaker 1:and you just listen, and I hear this all the time because I do well, baby checks constantly and I will tell them no, this is normal. So now, because I've been working for 30 years, I now am very comfortable saying to my South Asian population when their kids come in and they're older and they're and I go, no, our culture, the norm is being fat. I go they're overweight, you are healthy, it's okay to be weak, you're actually normal. The other thing that infuriates me is that you want this chubby, chubby baby. They have cookies for breakfast whatever.
Speaker 1:And kyo is good, don't get me wrong. But then at 16, they miraculously want these girls to look like, you know, really skinny. It's too much Dis. Yeah, disconnective messages.
Speaker 2:Just be healthy, that's it yeah, and there's certainly a role of how cultural you know relatives, how much of a role they play, like you know well-meaning aunties saying, oh, you know they like poking at you and saying, oh right, like there's no right for them to be able to say that I remember having acne when I was a teenager 16, 17.
Speaker 1:I can't remember. And I had this aunt and she would just stare at me like that and it was the most unnerving stare and you just knew. And she goes oh, and you just feel like total garbage. You're already the brown kid in Alberta and then your aunt's telling you you look basically ugly. And so then you're just like what? Like what do you do? It was devastating.
Speaker 3:And this shows up so much for me now as a coach. I have clients who have now taken this body image and connected that to their self-worth and then to their success. I had a client the other day who literally told me I cannot reach out to new businesses. She's a digital marketer. I cannot go reach out to new clients or prospective clients because I'm ugly. That's horrible and I had to really like made her realize that, number one, you're not ugly and number two, your looks have nothing to do with your skill set as a digital marketing consultant. And then there's another client who says wants to grow her business but she's like I can't post on social media because I'm big, I have my body. That's how deep it goes, right, like it's not just health, it affects your mental health and everything. So I know, nav, you love statistics and I'm not expecting you to like just throw numbers out of thin air, but do you have some idea of how eating disorder show up in our culture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did do a little bit of Okay so I learned that. So, first of all, you said how does it show up in our culture? So that's the important thing first of all is that it does show up in our culture, so it's not just something that you see represented on TV or in the media as young white women. No, it's also a lot of South Asians that 69 to 84% of women experience body dissatisfaction. That much percentage of women are unsatisfied with the way their bodies appear to them, so they want to be a lower weight, they want to have lighter skin. They want to have straight hair instead of hair. They don't want to have straight hair and hair instead of hair. They don't want to have hair on their bodies. And, in fact, 10 to 30% of men also experience body dissatisfaction and in their cases, it's mostly that they want to be more muscular.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Teenage and as young adults. So in the US, males make up a third of those with bulimia and a quarter of those with anorexia. So it's not just an affliction that hits women and young girls, it hits males as well. Up until now most of the research that's been done on disordered eating has been with Western countries, but it was thought initially that, you know, maybe Asians were less vulnerable. But of course now we're finding that the world is so globally linked that of course is spilling over into Eastern cultures with as much rates high rates as we find in Western cultures. So certainly it's becoming comparable in South Asia as it is in Europe and North America, and also it's affecting older men as well. So it's not just young women. About 13% of women over the age 50 also suffer from eating disorder symptoms and even though the peak age for anorexia is age 26, for other eating disorders like bulimia and binge eating, ages are more like 47 to 70.
Speaker 3:I didn't expect them to be that big, to be honest, but I get it, because you're talking about body dissatisfaction and then my mind is going OK. So I'm looking at my friend's circle. Almost every single one of them has body dissatisfaction, including me. So it makes sense. Those numbers make sense, OK. So let's talk about growing up. I only heard anorexia and bulimia.
Speaker 2:And because you said those terms now for those who don't know what they are, can you just quickly describe? Tell us what it is. You basically are starving your body into what we call a ketotic state, so that you're using up all your muscle mass. Anything that you're eating immediately is being burned by. You're just doing regular activities. You might be exercising a lot more, but essentially what you're putting into your body is much less than what you're actually exerting, so that you lose weight that way and in a non-healthy way.
Speaker 1:With bulimia it's interesting you actually may not lose weight. It's it's a more an emotional disorder and you just I don't see bulimia as much as I see anorexia, but with bulimia you're you're feeling very guilty. You can binge, eat, then you can throw up and then it's just you're cycling up and down. With anorexia there's more of a calorie restriction. With bulimia there's not really a calorie restriction. You can just binge and then eat and then throw up. You don't see the weight loss as much. But it's a very distressful and emotional sort of situation with food and it can cause a lot of serious consequences as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and especially from that throwing up, I'm sure it causes many more health issues and health challenges. I want to talk about intermittent fasting. I don't know why we have our friends whatsapp group and literally the conversations are going about constantly from last two months about intermittent fasting. I have done it as well. Did it help me? I think it depends on what's your goal. My goal was not weight loss, so did it help me? I don't know I had. Did it help me? I think it depends on what's your goal.
Speaker 3:My goal was not weight loss, so did it help me? I don't know. I had heard about it so much and there's all these health benefits, so I tried it. I felt I was way more bloated when I was trying intermittent fasting, so I stopped, and that could be to do with my menopause and all that. But let's talk about a little more, because right now all my friends are doing intermittent fasting. Some are saying it's amazing, some are saying it doesn't work for me, some are struggling. They're like I can't do more than 10 hours or 12 hours, so I want to been successful at it.
Speaker 1:I ran into someone who actually runs a weight loss clinic, a medical doctor in Ontario, and I didn't get into a full length discussion with her because we were attending a dinner party. But she had told me that intermittent fasting actually, for South Asian women is not effective. They do not. If losing weight is your goal, it does not work well for South Asian women. For men it works, for South Asian women not so much. At that point we couldn't get into the scientific reasons behind what she was telling me. So I don't have that information and I don't have any studies or anything that's based on. This is just what she had told me. I think personally I like eating and I like food. I will only intermittently fast. I've done it by de facto if I've had a heavy dinner the night before and a late dinner and I just not hungry the next morning and then it ends up being 12 or 16 hours before I can eat again. But I don't know if it's that effective. What do you think now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also I think part of the thing is that we don't really know't know if it's that effective. What do you think now? Yeah, and also I think, um, part of the thing is that we don't really know what the definition of intermittent fasting is like is like is it 10 hours? Is it 14 hours? Is it every day of the week? Is it three to five days of the week? So so it's random how people do it, that there's really no concise way to know whether it's helpful. But what I, but what I did cross was that for women, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's the right thing to do for many reasons. One is that it affects our bone health more so if we're not taking in the right taking in the right ways, and we're not getting our calcium and vitamin d, we're going to be prone to osteoporosis a lot in our lives than we think, because we start to lose bone by the time we hit 30. So that's one thing. Another thing is even reproductive health. So the few studies that I did come across were a little bit worrying.
Speaker 2:I mean they were done in rodents and rats, but they did show that intermittent fasting for women affected estrogen levels. So does that affect your ability to get pregnant? Does it affect your feelings around the time of menopause? It's really hard to say, unless we were to do some really you know well-controlled studies where some women many women were fasting and others were not, and then put them side by side. But it's not really clear that there is much benefit unless we look at a few sort of specific examples. Like it's thought that maybe in PCOM or polycystic ovarian syndrome, there may be a role for intermittent fasting. But again, studies are limited so it wouldn't be something that we would recommend at this time for all women.
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Speaker 3:I have also heard a few people do one meal a day, which I think is a form of intermittent fasting, and the moment I hear that, my heart goes. I love food way too much to do one meal a day, which I think is a form of intermittent fasting, and the moment I hear that my heart goes. I love food way too much to do one meal a day. I am the most cranky, hangry person ever. If I'm hungry, I need food. Don't tell me to fast. I am hungry, I'm going to eat. I eat very healthy in general. Yes, I love parathas, but do I eat them all the time? No, maybe once a month. And I'm not asking about here whether there's research or study and all, but when we look at it from the mental health perspective or from the conditioning or that whole messages that you receive from the world. From that perspective, if someone comes to you as a client, as a patient, and they're eating one meal a day, how do you like what do you tell them?
Speaker 1:I think you have to echo what Nav said it's really about your health. It's not, and I think there's two aspects to it. One is just the physical health, and that is just taking care of your bone health, your reproductive health, just your blood sugar levels, just how your body is metabolizing and sustaining itself so that you can think clearly, you can function clearly, right. The other aspect is your mental health, like if you have to restrict yourself to that extent, it has to be mentally stressful, and my philosophy is life is to live. So you know, have that ice cream, have that glass of wine, have whatever you want in moderation.
Speaker 3:Okay, I love you, Madhu, and I love your philosophy.
Speaker 1:Because anything we do in extreme is not, it's not healthy, right, like extreme dieting, extreme exercising none of this is good for you. But we want to eat and exercise so that we can sustain a healthy body, so that we don't get illnesses and diseases like diabetes, like heart disease, all these kinds of things that can be associated with a poor diet and poor physical exercise. So it's not just about how we look, it's about how we're going to age. We want to have strong bones, so you want to do weight training as women and, as Nav said, you start losing your bone density by 30, 35., so we want to start, you know, building up our bone and our muscles. So restricting yourself to one meal a day, I think, is no way to live. I mean honestly, mentally and physically. I think that's a horrible idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's impossible to have all your nutritional needs in that one meal. How are you going to get all the vitamins and the minerals and the protein and everything that your body needs in just one meal, unless it's a huge meal, but even then it's not healthy.
Speaker 1:And really cooking is like art, art like it is something to enjoy in the senses, to enjoy the heat of the food, the spice of the food, the texture of the food.
Speaker 2:So I think it's part of just the living experience it's a you know, it's a good uh term that I've heard a long time ago, that I love, that I love is like I don't uh eat to live, I live to eat. So, yes, I mean, I enjoy, right, why? Why deny yourself the pleasure of a good meal and only do it once, and just like what I was saying, if you do everything in moderation, you will get the intake of all the of all the vitamin, minerals that you require in your diet without having to resort to supplements, but you'll still be able to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and say, yeah, I am content with my body because I know I am doing everything right.
Speaker 3:So you said supplements. Let's talk about that, and the reason I am interested is because lately I have stopped taking a lot of my supplements that I did in the past and this it's my whole. This idea or approach you can say, is that I'm eating everything. I'm eating healthy. I should get everything from my, from my food, and of course, I've added, like, some nuts in there, so I'm getting magnesium, all that, but what, what's? What do you say about that? I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start in the napkin ad. I would say the one vitamin that I will, that I personally take every day is vitamin D, because there's not enough sun here and, um, anyone you test in vitamin D, I would say 99%, the vitamin D is low. Um, if you are a vegetarian, then I would suggest, or if you have heavy periods, I would suggest, that you getting your B12 or your uh, your iron iron checked. So this would be the other two, but now do you have any other suggestions?
Speaker 2:oh no, we actually just did this episode on our myth busting episode. We talked about vitamins and supplements, and the only and the only other thing we had added in that was that if you are of childbearing age and you're planning to get pregnant, or pregnant or you want, folic acid yeah, has been shown to increase the risk of neural tube defects that is a must. But everything else, if you aren't deficient, or if you're deficient by just the nature of the color of your skin, as in vitamin D or the nature of their you know iron through bleeding, then there really is no role for supplements.
Speaker 3:So you would suggest go get your tests done, get your blood test and everything and all, and if there is a deficiency, then yes also look at your diet.
Speaker 1:Like if you know that you're not going to get enough based on your diet, then I would probably take a low dose, maintenance dose of iron. You can get um and get it checked. So, yes, you can get it checked. But if you already sort of know, yeah, I'm probably behind the eight ball, there's, no, no harm in taking maintenance level supplements in those areas. But vitamin D and, yes, folic acid for women who are considering having children.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, that's good, okay. So, coming back to our whole body image and we mentioned that we'll talk about men a little bit more what have you seen and how is you said? Media is playing a role, so how is that playing a role?
Speaker 1:What's your experience going to start, because I just want to present a different lens to this discussion as well. The other lens would be what media and expectations of today does to men's expectations of how women should look. So it's not only about how the men are perceiving themselves, as Nav has said that they want to be more muscular. Every kid who comes to me wants their testosterone checked and their cortisol levels, and I just want to say there's no need because there isn't in most cases. But what frightens me or concerns me is what is social media doing to young men's minds as to how women should look? That's a huge concern for me. Yeah, their expectations, the implications yeah, yeah, their expectations.
Speaker 3:yeah, I never thought of that that way, because now, when they are young men out in that world of relationships, what are they expecting? Are they expecting these ideal bodies, the so-called ideal bodies, and flawless skin, and then how does that impact the relationship?
Speaker 1:so nav and I are very lucky because we have boys and girls and so they have a brother sister relationship that soon they realize what reality is when their sisters or brothers are around. So I think having the healthy discussion and reality in the family and talking about it is probably important. What do you think?
Speaker 2:you first mentioned, sunny, about um, the role of body image in men and in South Asian men. Who are their role models Like if they're on media, if they're looking at like, say, films. So, for example, you take someone like Shah Rukh Khan who in his late 50s ripped personal chef. He's got trainer. That's his livelihood for a living. He has to look like that. So most men obviously are not going to be like that and so I think it's an impossible standard that hopefully they're not setting for themselves. Certainly, as women, we already do it when we look at, you know, women in Bollywood, but hopefully our men aren't doing the same thing. But it is that that constant comparison like that person looks better than me and I want to look like that person.
Speaker 3:And how do I achieve that goal, and it's an often impossible goal. Yeah, I also want to say, like talking about Shah Rukh Khan, it's not just that they have a personal trainer, a chef and all, it's also the amount of editing that goes in In his latest movie. What Was the Name editing that goes in In his latest movie? What was the name? You can literally see the abs are painted.
Speaker 1:There is like that dark brown color. You can see that. Yeah, they are contoured.
Speaker 3:It's contouring and it's the lighting, so all those things right, it's not just that. Okay, maybe he does look like that, but maybe he doesn't look like that and he's made to look like that. And it's so good that we are having that conversation, because I think with women it took us so long to come to this point where now we're having those conversations that this is not realistic. And now even the movie stars not just Bollywood, hollywood, they're talking about, you know, removing their makeup. There's reels where they're removing their makeup and saying this is what the reality looks like. But with men this is not happening. With them, it's just starting. That's a very good idea, yeah, so it's good that we have that. I hope men listen also right now. I know my husband is listening. He never misses a single podcast episode and I hope that message is passed on to my son through him as well, that it's good if they start this conversation early on so they don't have to suffer like we women did for decades.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:What culturally sensitive advice do you give to a woman or a young girl who is struggling with this body shaming and body imaging? Like, how do you, what's, what's your advice to them, Especially being a medical doctor? Maybe there's something, and let's say it's someone who walks into your office or anyone who's listening right now.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't know if it's this is where I do think this is more cross-cultural, but what I? I think women should really support women. So I think Nav's uh comments about, you know, emoti hoge or all these things we need to stop doing. We need to stop body shaming. However, we do that in our, in our culture, and there's very subtle I guess there's culturally subtle ways that body shaming happens like Like I don't, like you know it's a rankala ho gaya yaa e madri hai yaa e murti hai. Like. Just those judgments need to just stop.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Or even you talked about mixed messages like you want a chubby baby, but the moment you hit 15, 16, you got to be skinny. And similarly, you got to be skinny. But then when you're pregnant, if you don't gain that much weight, if you don't look that big, then they're like, oh, your baby's probably not healthy. You got to gain more. But the moment the baby's out, okay, why are you not back to your pre pregnancy weight right away? So there's like all these messages like as if it's an elastic body and I can just like stretch it and bring it back. It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1:One one one, sorry. Now one culturally thing I just remembered is panjiti. So postpartum it's very common culturally that we eat panjiti. Someone usually makes it I remember I had received it. I can't remember my mother and mother-in-law, but I would just have literally one teaspoon with my sugar-free tea.
Speaker 1:And so when I pass on culturally to my postpartum women who are from India but have now come here, as I say, okay, let's look at the history of bindidi. Bindidi was probably made for women who were actually physically active, who actually needed the nutrition because they were in the villages, working, taking care of a huge extended family. What are we doing now? We're chilling and watching Netflix. Do not eat that, forget it. It's not important. I go have one little teaspoon for tradition and respect. Leave it. There's my culturally relevant input.
Speaker 3:I love it and I probably ate like bowl fulls of that.
Speaker 2:I did too. It was like Indian granola, yeah it was.
Speaker 3:It was so good.
Speaker 2:I also think that you know, for South Asians, we have such a complex relationship with food. Like you know, someone puts a plate of food in front of you and it's rude not to eat it, it's rude to like not finish everything on your plate. You know it goes back to those days when your kids, you're like you better eat, that there's starving children in Africa. You know like that's, of course, cross cultural, but for us even more so, you know. You know you didn't have the rest of your. You know whatever is on your plate and that, uh, you know you tell you you go home to visit your parents, they're like, okay, let me feed you this, let me do this. It's like, you know, it's polite, it's not nice to refuse food that is made for you with love, and so that's that relationship with food and also our socialization of south indians is very food centered.
Speaker 1:it's not like, oh, let's go for a hike, or you know let's go for a walk, or you know let's go for a walk. It's like you invite someone over. There's always some sort of food involved, because it is considered so disrespectful and you're just considered a rude host if you don't offer something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's so funny that you said that Even when we do, at summertime, those outdoor picnics, I see people are like playing and hiking and there's the South Asian families sitting with their paratha and cha and everything and we're like sitting around and eating because and I love my, I love South Asian food, but yes, we are. Everything is around food, whether it's festivals, it's Diwali, it's this that everything revolves around food. So we definitely have to educate ourselves more on cutting those ties slowly with food. Yes, you eat food, yes, you enjoy it, but you don't like. And I think I think even other cultures I mean Thanksgiving is all about food also, right? So I think other cultures too. So there's that there.
Speaker 3:I thought of something, because you were talking Nav. You were talking about how you know it's considered rude if you say no to food. When we got married and my husband would visit my side of the family, he would eat one roti and he'd be like I'm done. And they're like no, no, no, have more, have more. So one day I asked him I'm like, you usually eat at least three, so how come, after one, you're done? He's like because I know they're going to force me two more. I'm like that is very smart. So at one he'd be like oh, I'm so full, I'm done, I'm done, but because he knew this, at least going to force him to eat at least one more, so then it'll be fine. So that was very smart of him. But it's true, right, like we get offended if someone doesn't eat food, or I made it with so much love, why are you not eating it? And we take it personally, okay. So at the end I love to do usually with all my uh guests, a rapid fire round.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, now I feel like we're on coffee with Guttan Okay.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what it feels like, right, and that's what it's gonna be. Are you ready?
Speaker 1:I think so. I don't think so, but go ahead.
Speaker 3:Okay, so we'll go with Nav because she's more ready Looks like she's more ready. We'll start with something easy. One health tip you think should be retired for good.
Speaker 2:Intermittent fasting is for everybody.
Speaker 3:Okay, paratha or protein smoothie, oh me now.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely a protein smoothie.
Speaker 3:Okay, nav, your favorite way to unwind after a long workday.
Speaker 2:Netflix and a glass of wine.
Speaker 3:I like that. Yes, absolutely. That's my Friday nights, madhu. One word to describe your relationship with your body today Love, yeah, self. Body today, love, yeah, self-love. Yes, okay, nav One health, no, this one. I already asked you, so I'm going to ask this to Madhu. First thing that comes to mind when you hear the word diet so who are you asking this question to you, nav?
Speaker 2:Okay you. So who are you asking this question to you now? Okay, you. The first thing that I think of when I hear the word diet uh, it gives me anxiety.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, me too yeah, yeah, madhu, mountain or beach can't I do both.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to pick one. Okay, right now I'm in a mountain mood, so I'll go with mountain.
Speaker 3:Okay, I always struggle with that one. I'm like can I pick a beach where there's a mountain nearby? Okay, nav, what's one guilty pleasure snack you'll never give up? Chocolate, dark chocolate, 85%, ooh yum, oh my gosh. Yes, for me it's a dark chocolate with orange, that's the best. Uh, madhu, one health myth that drives you crazy, oh my god there's so many.
Speaker 1:Um, I think one health that that really is I'm just going crazy with now is that how the youth now need to get their cortisol levels checked. That is a myth. You do not need to get your cortisol levels checked as a health.
Speaker 3:And I've never even heard about that. Is that a thing For the young?
Speaker 1:people. It is a thing. Testosterone and cortisol levels, oh yeah, so they don't need to For healthy young people that is a thing.
Speaker 3:Testosterone and cortisol levels oh yeah, so they don't need to for healthy young people? That is a myth. Yes, okay. Now if your body could send you a thank you note, what would it say?
Speaker 2:thank you for recognizing fairly early in life that you needed to take care of me madhu heels or sneakers this is a very opportune time that you're asking me this.
Speaker 1:I just went and bought a pair of hokas the other day and I turned to my daughter, who's 25. And I said wear all the heels you can possibly wear at this age anywhere possible. So right now, I am trying to fall in love with different types of sneakers. I do like sneakers, but I used to love heels. But we're not on a good, we're not on good terms right now with heels.
Speaker 3:And I am with you on that one. I'm also in that phase where I'm falling in love with sneakers, and my cousin just got married last August and I bought these glittery sneakers that I wore at the reception because I wanted to dance, so I wore heels, but then I changed into these sneakers with all these snow. They were so pretty and I danced the night away.
Speaker 1:It is getting more and more common. I was just at a wedding reception and my friend had a long gown on and she said don't tell anyone, and she lifted her gown and she had sneakers on underneath and then my cousin got married a year and a half ago and she had special sneakers designed in LA that they do these Indian designs on sneakers and she wore those for every single event.
Speaker 2:Amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, this is not looking like a rapid fire anymore.
Speaker 1:I feel rapid again.
Speaker 3:But this also kind of ties into that whole body image thing, because the height and you have to wear heels and all that and it kind of ties into that as well, like you know that so many times we wear heels, even when we're uncomfortable, yeah, and even, like you know, if we're extending that body image to you know, our age and up, perimenopausal and older, like you talked about gray hair, about wrinkle.
Speaker 2:We talked about, you know, skin marks, like all that stuff that never bothered us, bothered us when we were young. That's part of our body image dysmorphia, or how we see ourselves now.
Speaker 3:So it affects different women at different ages in different ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want to say something here to all my listeners. If you have not listened to podcast episode about my relation with my body, from shame to love, you got to go back and find that and listen to that. So just wanted to put that plug in there and we're going to wrap up our rapid fire with my last question, which will go to both of you one by one, and it's my favorite question. We'll start with Madhu. This time the name of the podcast is Flawthentic Me. I want you to fill in the blanks.
Speaker 1:I am a flaw-thentic because I think I am flaw-thentic, because all the flaws make who I am. Just be me, and that's good enough.
Speaker 2:Yes and Nav.
Speaker 3:I am flaw-thentic because I've learned to recognize and embrace my flaws in order to embrace who I am and love myself. I love both of those. This was so, so, so beautiful At the end. If you had to give one message to a young girl who's struggling with body image or who's looking in the mirror and seeing only flaws, what would you say? And whoever wants to go first, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Nath, say that you are still at a time where you are not, are not accept of who you are, internally as well as externally. But that day will come. Just stay strong. Don't buy into external sources, people or images telling you who you should be and what you should be Strong and stay true to who you are.
Speaker 3:And you will one day be at comfort and at peace and in love with your own self. I love that, Madhu. Do you have anything to add to?
Speaker 1:that I think that we all go through this and I think, as young girls, you definitely have body image and body dysmorphia and just self confidence issues, right, and I think that I would really say that in this life, you're not at a constant. You are like that caterpillar who will evolve into that butterfly, and I think allow yourself to evolve and really be who you're meant to be. Spread your wings and don't be contained by society's definitions and expectations and really take a look around. The people who are successful are the ones who were always marching to their own beat, so continue to do that.
Speaker 3:So continue to march on your own beat. So continue to do that. So continue to march on your own beat. Love it? Where can well? I want to tell everyone if you're listening to this please, please, please, go listen to Ava's podcast. It is so amazing. There's a wealth of information, but also that whole context of how it applies to our culture being a South Asian. So just please go find them. Listen to them now. Where can they find you?
Speaker 2:yeah, instagram at avaz underscore voice and we're also on TikTok Facebook and we're on Twitter and we're on Blue Sky and Spotify and Apple, obviously yeah, so you are everywhere, everywhere, and it is Avaz with a V, so it's A-V-A-A-Z.
Speaker 3:I will put all that in the show notes. So please, please, please, go, follow them. Listen to the podcast. At the end, all I want to say is your body is beautiful. Be grateful for this body because it gave you the opportunity to experience this beautiful world. This body has created life, so be nice to this body because it gave you the opportunity to experience this beautiful world. This body has created life, so be nice to this body. Be compassionate. Thank your body for letting you to live this beautiful life. Experience it through your eyes, through your nose, through your ears, your legs that allow you to walk, this beautiful stomach, this uterus that held a baby one day and gave birth. So stop being critical of your bodies and just love it and embrace it just the way it is.
Speaker 2:Great work.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much Thank you so much for both of you for being here. I am so grateful for all the information and just for being a part of Fluffantic. Thank you, Sunny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for having us. You're so welcome. Yeah, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 3:You're so welcome. Thank you for listening to the Flauthentic Me podcast. Did you relate to something or had an aha moment? I would love to hear your thoughts. Connect with me on Instagram at Sunny underscore Lamba. You can also sign up for our newsletter so that you can get weekly tips and tools. Until next time, keep loving yourself and stay Flauthentic.