The unCommon Exposè
I want to change your life by sharing someone else's.
Join me & my guests as we share the raw & honest stories of everyday women.
If you'd love to be a guest please reach me at @uncommonex.
The unCommon Exposè
Lesbians, babies, induced lactation & suicide.
*trigger warning: suicide is discussed in this episode.
Ever wonder;
How lesbians conceive?
Or if it's possible to induce lactation (stimulate breastmilk production)?
Or how to come back from the point where you feel you have no other option than ending it all?
Then this podcast is perfect to expand your beliefs & knowledge about a world different, or maybe similar to your own.
Join Synta as she shares her experience with induced lactation (as the non-birthing parent), artificial insemination and suicide.
This podcast has been a beautiful experience to share; full of love, heart break and decisions.
Thank you for sharing your life.
Don't forget to follow us on Instagram @uncommonex!
Hello and welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. As always, I'll get you to introduce yourself and then we will crack on. Okay, so I am Sinta. I am an acupuncturist and naturopath at Unique U Health. I am 34 years old and my wife Amy and I have got twin 11-month-old boys, Arlo and Atreus. Yeah, they're so cute. They're so cute. So busy. So busy, so active now as well. Yes. Cool. Alrighty. So that's really what your story is about and I think it is you're the only person who I've ever heard of even like heard of you know sometimes you'll hear someone who knows someone I've never heard of anyone who's had your experience so I think that this is going to be so eye opening to so many different women who yeah just have never even known that this was an option yeah definitely well hopefully yeah it definitely will be I'm excited I've already told some people that you were coming on to and they were like what i didn't know so yes yeah let's let's continue yeah well yeah so uh we had a very interesting fertility journey obviously because we're in a same-sex relationship uh there's that barrier to begin with but we tried to conceive since 2021 uh we tried with me first yeah and um we decided that we wanted to use me because i was the older yep one and as some people might know the doctors are like oh yeah by the age of 28 your eggs are considered geriatric yeah panic there's already enough pressure thank you what's the age gap between you and amy uh two years oh yeah so it's it's minor but it's still present yes yeah so we thought oh we'll try it with me first because that way you know if i fall pregnant first then at least we've got a little bit of time and her eggs are a bit younger yeah uh but unfortunately it did not take so So we, in the beginning, we started trying with a known donor. So we had a known donor who was very kind and did some donations at home. Yeah. So we opted to do IUI. So into uterine insemination at home. Yeah. And is that, that's just between yourself and your partner and them? There's no like medical, anything involved? No medical, yeah. Yeah. They can be, but we chose not to just because of what I do for a living. Yeah. And I imagine, does that just involve like a turkey baster or is there a little bit more of a process? You get like these special type of syringes that have got a rounded edge on them. Okay. So that it's softer to go into the vaginal canal. Yep. And then you just get a specimen cup. The donor does his job. His job. His one job. His one job. One job, yep. And then we take the specimen cup, take the syringe, suck it all up and then insert it. Wow. Yes. Just know it's private isn't it yeah like yeah just you and yeah oh that's interesting yeah so we did that a few times uh with me and actually the first donation that we did we thought holy crap like i'm pregnant oh really period didn't come i was having queasiness i was having all these symptoms and i was like holy shit who knew it was so easy so easy but no it turned it turned out that I later on actually within the last year we found out that I've got PCOS yep and that was just essentially my cycle just went stress okay bye bye and it went hectic and the nausea I was feeling was actually from the prenatals oh that sucks yeah I was like when I figured out that that's what it was I spoke to my rep and I was like that's pretty shit like women trying to conceive yeah now they're being All's Hope or something. All's Hope. Yeah. So we tried with our known donor. I only had three what we think were ovulations during that first year. Wow. And he was great. He donated all three times. Did you just track your ovulation then? Yes. So we did LH strips. We did temperature tracking. All the things I make my patients do, I've been there. I've done it. Yeah. I know how much it sucks. It's good that you have that empathy there. and sympathy already and knew that it was going to be a rough road that probably helped mentally because you're like I know it sucks it's not just me now when I have patients who are like it's so hard to take my temperature it's like girl I know these are the hacks I have so we did the three tries with him and that didn't take and then we unfortunately that donor relationship didn't quite work out so after that we kind of went all right we don't want to have a known donor so close yeah yeah so we kind of branched out yep uh amy reminded me we tried a like an app which was like a essentially like a tinder for sperm donors oh wow there's everything on the internet now isn't there right um but we got some really sus things through that and like we had guys saying i'll come donate but can i watch you and your wife That's weird. And in my naivety, I was like, he wants to watch this. Like, he's like, no, no, no. That's not what he wants. Do you know what? It's like the most innocent. Yeah. That's what I would think too. I was like, where is this man being sick or is he supportive? He's supportive. He wants the babies. He might just be interested in medical procedures. Yeah. No. No. No. Just a seedy motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, yuck. Yeah. So after we had like a couple of things like that, we joined a group on Facebook called Sperm Donors Australia. Yeah. And that was pretty good. We, it's very big. and it's right across Australia and people kind of post up like almost like a resume of themselves and say these are their areas and then both either like people who are trying to conceive or donors can post up onto there. Do you get to see pictures? Yes. Because through the general or the traditional IVF right you don't get to see photos of people do you? Exactly. We actually I'll get to that later but we did go down that track as well. Okay. Sorry. I'm just excited. Yeah. give me all the information at one time one time don't space it out or anything yeah that's it we yeah so you just kind of put it up they can put up pictures of themselves yes they can put up pictures of like themselves as babies and then essentially people just message each other yeah yeah we found a guy through there that we clicked with quite well and he again came over to our house went into a separate room did his thing and then would go but again my cycle just wasn't working yeah okay um at this time we had seen a gynecologist uh rachel green yep i saw her yeah she's pretty good she put in my um ad yes that was fucking horrific i will never do that again yeah oh it was before i'd had children so it was years ago never never again yep yes so yeah we saw her um she is lovely she's lovely yeah it's lovely just the procedure that was not fun yes she's lovely and and her husband is amazing as well and what's he what's his field i think he's the ob yeah okay with her practice oh that's cool yeah and um she put me on letrozole to try and encourage um egg production to happen and then i would go so i'd go on letrozole try and encourage the follicles to form and then i would go on progesterone um to kind of like boost my progesterone levels up stop the progesterone so the hormone plummets and then it would trigger a cycle oh okay so it's essentially creating a bit of a cycle to happen yeah yeah um now you might cover this already did she know that you were doing i can't remember but like the private insemination and did she try and steer you away from that or no she was actually pretty supportive she was like yeah that's fine um let's do the medical side stuff this way yep and then if you still aren't falling pregnant then we'll look at the other side of stuff yeah okay but the letrozole for any woman who's been on letrozole it can be pretty nasty lots of bloating hormone things up and down cramping pain it's not fun and then I got to the point we'd done three rounds with this like the letrozole cycle three rounds with the donor and I was like I'm out I cannot mentally do this anymore so I've been taking and boosting fertility stuff for a year and a half and my body just would not respond yeah it was just shutting it down any way it could and I was like come on man yeah yeah yes and so try to be your own hype girl right yeah and it got to the point where I said to him I was like I cannot do this I cannot go through another cycle of the hope the waiting and then the crash yeah and so at the same time we also had a sleep study done so I did a sleep study and it showed that had quite severe sleep apnea oh okay and my doctor was like you it would be in your best interest not to fall pregnant because of the level of your sleep apnea if you fall pregnant because like you might know being pregnant everything kind of like swells snoring gets worse yeah she was like your chances of stopping breathing while you're sleeping and you're pregnant escalates oh okay and i was like great thank you amazing after like 18 months of ups and downs already yes oh and then that yes that was heartbreaking it was so heartbreaking and i felt like such a failure because i was like i'm the practitioner like i'm taking all the stuff i'm doing the things and it just didn't work and did you feel like it had helped with so many other women yes like what it yeah i don't want to put thoughts into your head like what why is this not working for me i 100 like i said to amy i was like i can get so many people pregnant yeah but i couldn't get myself pregnant yeah and that just between 2021 and in 2022, I got like, that sounds really weird, but like multiple people pregnant through the same thing. Impregnated, less of women. Interesting, sorry about that later. So yeah, that was really heartbreaking and incredibly defeating. And we kind of went, we re-evaluated and went, okay, do we still want kids? And we were both yes at that time. By this point, I was like, now it feels like a a personal thing i'm like i don't want kids like yeah i'm gonna get me some babies yeah um so yeah then we just swapped over to amy yeah she had regular cycles um she was clearly ovulating so we could track it a lot better with her
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:um because of where we'd stopped with me and where she was in her cycle it was like almost like speeding through the fertility stuff because she hadn't been taking anything. Yeah. Because we hadn't been doing any fertility boosting stuff with her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so it was like, all right, these are all your supplements. Take them all at once. These are all the herbs are doing all the things. Um, but she was great. She was incredibly compliant. Um, she's so well, I see it from an outside perspective, easy going. She is just like, yeah. Okay. That's what you want me to do. I'll do it. Whatever you say. I'm happy. Yeah. She's a look. She's like that. But also when she started taking the herb, I don't know if you've ever had herbs before. No. Let's specify herbs. It's like a really dirty shot that you do. So if you think of like back in clubbing days, like the nastiest shot you could do, it's kind of like that. I'm thinking Sambuca, but I enjoyed that. No, these you don't enjoy. It's like grass shit that you take. Wheatgrass? Wheatgrass. Is it like that? Oh, look, it's like that, but with a burn behind it. Oh, fun. fun and amy equates it to um dirty flower water that's what she says flower like baking flower or yeah okay yeah yeah but she was she was good she took it all yay um and she probably had seen and had been through this journey with you yeah that she was like right i'll do whatever i need to and like to help you and to help your relationship to achieve the goal exactly yeah i mean she saw like everything that we did because like i would be tensing my ovaries i'd be doing the heat pack things i drank all these lovely soups and brews and everything to boost it yeah and um so she was yeah she was on board with doing all of that and she did and the donor that we so it was still the same donor that we had with me yeah he agreed to kind of change over and donate to her did you have to sign a contract between that in situation not with him yeah with the first owner we did and then later on we did as well with the person who did end up being our donor okay yeah yes so this donor um after we talked over to amy he ended up having to do a lot of work interstate and so we just missed a lot of ovulations oh yeah so i think he only donated twice to her and by the end of it the donations were looking a bit funky so yeah and i think it's just all the travel yeah okay this poor guy the pressure the pressure pressure he'd been donating for like eight year so he was like wow putting his love life on the hold for a year oh
SPEAKER_01:wow
SPEAKER_00:and he we could just tell he was done and we were done and we were like just it's fine just it's all right go yeah yeah you're free yeah you're free swim like you're swimming so yeah he went and then we this was the end of 2022 we kind of went okay so we've tried the natural way do we go through a clinic yeah and we went fuck it let's let's try it so we had a little bit of savings at this point so we're like we'll put the savings towards it we'll reevaluate depending on this yep and we had all the tests done she had her tubes flushed everything like that and the doctor said she was in peak um yeah she was just perfect she was the fertility goddess oh amazing excellent so the fertility doctor we went through rainbow fertility um And they were good. We ended up choosing a sperm donor from the Seattle Sperm Bank. We were so excited for him. He was of Greek origins. Oh, wow. And we both love Greek everything. So we were like, oh, little Greek baby. Little Greek babies. Little Greek babies. Yes. And because of my job, I can read sperm results and everything like that. And so I got a copy of his sperm results before we actually used it. And I was like, holy shit. Like, I've never seen sperm results like this before. I didn't even know that this was possible. Yeah, right. Because it was just so good. You got your
SPEAKER_01:perfect
SPEAKER_00:woman and your
SPEAKER_01:perfect
SPEAKER_00:sperm. Yeah, I was like, no way this could fail, right? Yeah, okay. Yeah. So we went in to do the... Also, it was also an IUI that we did. We didn't do IVF or ICSI. We just did the clinic IUI. So essentially, same thing that I do at home, we just did in the clinic setting.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And... in saying that i was i got to be there when they did the uh injection of the sperm insemination of the sperm yeah i was like yeah injection yeah when they did the um thing with the sperm and so i was like watching intently i was like did i do something wrong yeah why were you asking for tips i was watching very i was like can i see this yeah yeah i get in there too yeah and so you know when like and you sometimes do it with children like yeah that's right you'll put your hand on their hand or vice versa and do it along with them to like feel into it that would have been so funny I'm sure that it was unprofessional but it would have been very funny yeah and Amy because I was like behind the doctor and Amy was watching my face the whole time and when the doctor left she was like you were so intently looking up my vagina I was more than normal here's all that love and attention normally exactly so yeah we did the um oh what was it called no transfusion insemination already forgot we did the insemination and um she it was unmedicated for her because she was obviously ovulating and everything like that properly but she did have a trigger shot to just make sure that she was like gonna drop an egg yeah yeah so she did the trigger shot um and it was the overdraw just the hcg trigger shot yeah um and then it was was just a waiting game so the trigger shot can take 14 days to clear out of your system within that 14 days you can still test positive but it's a fake positive because it's HCG so we didn't know that at the time or put it this way I knew that but I forgot that and so we went for a walk one day and she was more fatigued than normal she was like having shortness of breath and I was like interesting and so when we got home from the walk I said oh look let's just do a pregnancy test just in case and we were nine days post trigger and it popped up positive and we were like holy shit it's actually happening we were really excited and then as we were getting excited something in my brain clicked and I was like wait a minute and I was like wait how far are we away from the trigger shot and then I looked at it and I was like whoa you know some people do clear it really fast some people it can take that 14 days yeah so i was like we'll just we'll test it out from here and it just got lighter and lighter and lighter and then she bled and we were like holy crap we just spent six thousand dollars for you to bleed it out oh so that was so defeating yeah after your everything yeah and everything looked perfect yeah so it was that thing of like what's going on yeah so we then kind of went okay this has been like at that point two years of just hell um hopes getting dashed all the time it definitely put a big strain on our relationship as well by that point because now we didn't just have the fertility strain we had the financial strain on top of that um and we were like what do we do and we started looking into adoption so we started looking into what's involved with adoption in australia what's involved with adoption internationally and we were kind of going okay let's start putting some feelers out and the day that we kind of decided we'll put feelers out for adoption stuff we just went to a catch up with some people and we got nice and wasted and we're telling these people about what's going on and like just the how shit it is like the vial of sperm we got 0.5 mils was$1,700 oh like what And then you have to pay$1,000 for them to clean the sperm. Oh, wow. Yes. How do they clean from it? I don't know. That's what I was like. I was like, why are you taking it out? Can I clean it? Yeah. I've got a scrubby brush. I've got a scrub day. That's it. Yeah, right. So, yeah, so we were just, we were essentially bitching about it. And we had told these people we were catching up with, we're like, we think we're done. Like, we're going to look into adoption. If that doesn't take, we're going to live our perfect dink lives. Yeah. And just travel. And we've got two fur babies. Yeah. Sorry, I forget about the cat all the time. Yeah, the cat. Yeah. and we'll just love up on them and then we went home and later on one of the people that was at the catch up messaged us and was like why don't we just do this together and we were like hmm we were very hesitant to begin with because of our history with the previous, uh, known donor. Yeah. So we were like, we don't want this to impact a relationship that, yeah, it was just complicated. And we were like, we don't know. And then Amy and I spoke about it. We're like, fuck it. Like, what have we got to lose? Um, these guys, these people were great. They helped set up like a proper donor agreement and NDA and everything like that, which is why I'm very vague with how we're mentioning things. that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, of course. There's privacy involved in all of these things. Exactly, yeah. And, yeah, it was great. And we just went kind of, yeah, fuck it. Amy was due to ovulate two weeks later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we went, okay, we'll just try. the donor brought the stuff over yeah we did the insemination a little bit different this time so we also got like a little cup thing yep to insert afterwards and we also like a pessary like a disc it was like a like you know like a moon cup yeah or a period yeah yeah yeah yeah but like a flat one oh yes so it's meant to kind of like help like keep the sperm in yeah okay yeah that makes sense though yeah you want it in there for as long as it can yes coming out yes yeah so and i mean with all of the transfusion sorry inseminations transfusions with all the inseminations we did we did acupuncture and everything like that but i'd never done it straight away
SPEAKER_01:right okay
SPEAKER_00:whereas this time we were like okay we did like the pelvis tilt we did the insemination we did the disc in i did acupuncture straight away like while she was lying there and we had Macca's chips delivered because we bred the Macca's chips like help with implantation and all that stuff I don't know it worked clearly yeah it's the Macca's chips not the other stuff just those chippies did you have Macca's chips at any time of course I did that yeah so we did that and she we also used wild yam cream with her which is a natural progesterone boost out and where do you rub that on your belly yeah so yeah you can rub it on your belly on your thighs any fatty parts that you have anywhere that so your fat helps to produce estrogen um and it also helps with the other hormones and things like that so we just put it anywhere that there was little fat bits for her yeah So she did the, we did the insemination, we did the acupuncture and then just went about our life normally. That following weekend, we were going away for Amy's work conference thing and she was like, do you think I'm pregnant? And I was like, I don't know. And I was so defeated at this point. I was like, probably not. Yeah. Like, let's be honest. Fate has not been in our favor. Yeah. So yeah, we just kind of like took it easy she had one or two drinks and then about a week and a half later she was like my period's late and i was like it could just be stress yeah she just started a new job yeah i was like probably just stress yeah life yeah life and um she was like she did a pregnancy test and it i couldn't see it like it was like it looked like an indentation lab yeah yeah and she was like that could be a like that could be a positive and I was like I don't think so yeah that's just a bend in the stick no my husband I showed him our like first pregnancy test and he's like I'm sorry there's nothing there and I was like fuck you I went and got another pregnancy test that's pretty much what she did okay good she went to work bought a digital pregnancy test that's what I did yeah did it in a service station bathroom good on her and then she sent me a photo and I'm in clinic treating a patient and she first tried to call me and she knows I'm with patients and I was like you don't call me unless it's like an emergency and so the patient's talking to me and I'm like what the fuck's going on and I'm like okay and I'm like alright cool cool cool let's get you up on the table I'll put some needles in And then the patient's on the table. I open up my phone. I'm like, what's happening? And she sends me a photo. And it's like two to three weeks pregnant. And I was like, bullshit. Oh, my God. Yeah. So that's how we felt pregnant. How distracting for you in work. I'm just pulling my needles out. Get off. Go home. Wow. Yeah. So that was our pregnancy journey. Yeah. She was a trooper. We made an appointment with our doctor probably about two weeks later first thing I did though was I sent her to go get a HCG test because I can refer for blood tests yeah right so I was like I don't fully fully believe it yeah I'll send you for blood tests she did the blood test and then I made her do another HCG test two days later because I was like all the tests damn yeah and yeah it kept increasing but at no point did it look like twin levels yeah okay yeah so that just goes to show if your hdd isn't through the roof it could still be multiples and if it is through the roof it could still be a singleton yeah yeah yeah so yeah we then just made a point just a regular thing made a point with the doctor got referrals for the scans got referrals for like the further blood tests and things um and as we pulled up for the scan We were like, wouldn't it be hilarious if it's twins? Yeah. And she was like, it would be that week though. She'd had a dream that it was twins. Yeah. Yes. Now when she dreams things, we take them very seriously. I would be the same. Maybe she'll have a dream about me. Um, so yeah, she had a dream that it was twins. We rocked up, rocked up to the ultrasound. And, um, as a guy's ultrasounding, doing the ultrasound, I'm at the back, like secretly recording. Yeah. And, he goes over and so because I'm watching and I'm like that doesn't look right and I was like I don't think she had two uteruses yeah and I was like no that's that's weird and I was like and the destination's like shouldn't be that big already anyways then the guy goes okay because he'd been quite nice and chatty and then he just went quiet and I was like do I keep recording yeah of course of course like have you gone quiet for good news or bad news yeah you're gonna want to expunge from our lives yeah of course so he goes all right so not many people are ever really ready to hear this and i was like oh yeah and then he's like i can see two gestation sacs and i was like what? Yeah. And Amy's like, what does that mean? What? And he goes, um, so that means twins. And she goes, fucking called it. Yeah. You just hear me in the background going, holy shit. Oh my God. That's so cute though, that you managed to capture that point. Oh, and then, um, he's still recording and like going through, he's like, everything looks great. And then you just hear me like hyperventilate. Cause then everything sets in. I was like, shit, that's like extra things. Now it's two pots. Oh yeah. And I'm like, holy crap, holy crap, holy crap. Yeah. But yeah, so that was a big shock. But yeah, so then she had a, she had a pretty all right pregnancy. Just towards the end, she just got really bad pubic symphysis. Yeah. And had to go on mat leave early. Yeah. But besides from that, she was great. I don't know if you ever saw Amy pregnant. She didn't look like she was carrying twins. Oh, good on her. Yeah. No. I think the first time I met either of you was when you were when she but yeah um did my boot camps yeah yeah a couple weeks or months ago now yeah yeah so she didn't look like she was carrying twins you wouldn't think it and from the back she you wouldn't think she was pregnant yeah yeah it was just all like we don't know where yeah right yeah so yeah that was our little pregnancy journey and our little fertility journey yeah she carried all the way up until 40 weeks wow
SPEAKER_01:for twins
SPEAKER_00:that's excellent yeah and i mean everyone was telling us ob's everybody were telling us that it would be like 32 34 weeks max yeah um so prepare yeah and we're like yeah two and early yeah so we were doing all the prep work for that yeah but then yeah she went all the way to 40 weeks that's amazing water's broke naturally wow she she is just a pregnancy goddess isn't she um then she went into labor and um labor didn't like contractions didn't quite start properly but the waters had broken really nicely so we ended up going into the mud a little bit earlier than what we'd intended and by that point she was like I am done let's get the babies out so she opted to get the centosin drip and just to kind of help move things along but that was it she didn't have any pain relief she breathed them out both born vaginally 20 minutes apart wow first one she pushed for i think it was 45 55 minutes and he just had a huge head yeah yeah and then um the second one um he was we were really lucky they were both head down yeah that is oh my
SPEAKER_01:god
SPEAKER_00:at one point during her pregnancy one was breached and the other one was head down but we again did acupuncture and flipped them the right way just through through acupuncture or did you do baby flipping as well no we just did acupuncture wow the power of acupuncture right I because I never flipped twins before I'd flipped singletons and I was and one was in the right position yeah that's what I was thinking yeah I messaged my colleagues I was messaging my colleagues I was like how do we how do you do one do I do one side like what do I do and all of them were like we don't know but take notes and let us know how you're doing yeah so yeah we we flipped them both, uh, managed to flip them both head down. Um, the second bulb was just up a little bit high. So they went in, broke his waters and then he was out with three pushes. Jeez Louise. Yeah. So she did. She was incredible. Yeah. She's a pretty awesome woman. Yeah. Always impressed by how well she does. Yeah. That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. So that was our, that was our pregnancy and birth story and everything. Um, we, I knew that I wanted to breastfeed from the get go. Um, and so from the moment that we knew that she was pregnant i was like right i want to breastfeed yeah so but i didn't want to go through the whole medical route of doing it just because i've been on oral contraception before oh man not a nice person yeah on it yeah yes and so i was like i don't want to go down that road yeah i remember back in uni they were telling us about it is possible to do it with herbs um and then i also know with acupuncture it is but even my lecture lectures were like, it's so rare that you will get to that point. Um, and it was really interesting because one of my reps actually still has contact with one of the lectures I had in uni and she was like a big Herbie lecturer. And when we found out Amy was pregnant and I told my rep, I want to induce lactation. Um, she messaged that, uh, uh, lecturer and was like any tips, anything like that. And even the lecturer said, I've never had anyone successfully do this. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. And so, you know, the lecturer was like, tell her to keep notes and let us know how she goes. And the fact that, like, no one had ever done it that she'd known, that wasn't a deterrent for you to be like, oh, fuck it. Like, what's the point? Well... Where you're like, nah, fuck it, I'm going to do it. Yeah, I was like, I'm just going to see what happens. Like, what have I got to lose? Yeah. And there's a book written about how to induce lactation without the medical stuff, just using herbs and acupuncture and stimulation and massage stuff. Yeah. So I was like, it can be done someone's written a book so clearly yeah that's right it's not a fantasy exactly i'm not making this up yes it's like massage and dragons yeah exactly birds and fairies so i was like all right well what have i got yeah So we did all my research on the different herbs that I needed. Luckily, because of my work, I could order them all in. So I ordered them all in and I created like the herbal tinctures for myself. And, um, we started at the end, mid to end of July. So we were anticipating the boys to come November. Um, cause that was about that 32, 36 weeks. So I was like the sooner I can start the better. Um, and the whole process with inducing lactation if you're the non-birthing parent is you've got to build breast tissue up that can then make milk yeah um and it doesn't normally do that that would be also different to just having large breasts though exactly just because you have large breasts doesn't mean that you have breastfeeding tissue exactly so it's a completely different tissue and it felt so different too yeah so we started on the herbs and two weeks on the herbs i said to him it's like my boobs are so sore yeah like even just wearing a shirt hurt oh wow and i was like it can't be like it's two weeks like anyways and i went to have a massage and i was like i cannot lie face down like it's so tender it's more than just premenstrual tension
SPEAKER_01:tender yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah um and i was feeling around i was like yeah no it definitely like the tissue feels different i was like all right maybe something's happening yeah so we just two weeks up with it yeah so we kept up with it we did a month so you do a month just on the herbs and nutrition and just gentle massage. So we started on that. Then I met with a great lactation consultant, Mel Tapping. She was excellent. She came over. She was like, I've never heard of anyone doing it your way. So keep notes and let me know how you go. Everyone's along for the ride. Even me now that it's post. And she showed us how to use. So she said to me, yeah, you're doing everything right. You just need need to now introduce the stimulation
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:so then we started with the nipple stimulation and we used the spectra pump yep yeah so because i asked her i was like is there a different pump and she's like no you don't want to muck around with this because you're essentially trying to get milk out of something that should not be producing milk yeah so no it's not shouldn't be producing it's unnecessary isn't it right now yeah yeah my my breasts were like we're not really supposed to be doing this where's the baby yeah that's it yeah um so she was like so you want to go a good pump like a good quality pump that's hospital grade can pull out what it needs to pull out uh so yeah so she helped us we had a spectra that we got um she got the fittings properly and that was a big thing that i learned later on was how important it is to get the correct nipple like inserts yeah for your pump yeah because holy cow it was so uncomfortable and it wasn't as effective it If the sizing of the phalange was not correct.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. So when we did, she, at our first visit, she kind of helped me like position the pump on and everything. And we did just a quick little pump then. Yeah. And it already produced some stuff coming out. Oh, wow. Yeah. And at first I was like, Oh, is that like grease from the pump? Was it yellow then? No, it was like a greeny... I think I saw a picture somewhere. Yeah, it was like a greeny, browny text colour. Oh, right. Almost that you could think, oh, it might just be like some cream or maybe some greasy... Yeah. Yeah, right, okay. And Mel was like, I don't think that's grease. I think that's... That's yours. Yeah, okay. you made that she's like that's just your pumps like your pipes clearing out I would 100% think the same thing what a weird machine ah no that's you so she was like yeah no that's that's all you yeah fun okay okay so then we introduced the pumping side of stuff yeah that was hectic yeah so I had to pump eight times a day oh wow one of those times had to be at night time because your prolactin level like between 12 and 5am because your prolactin is the highest at that point and I am I do not like waking up like that to pump I mean that's changing now with the twins now it's just but yeah so we I did a lot of pumping and I would do pumping in between patients and before and after work multiple times and we got to end of October and and we were getting like decent amounts starting to come out enough to be collecting it
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:so i mean it wasn't like what beautiful pregnant mamas can produce like the containers full yeah um but we're talking like 10 mils 10 to 20 mils at a time which was i was i was like that's amazing from zero right yeah so we did that and then um i got covid so i got covid at the beginning beginning of november and we were so paranoid about the boys coming and me having covid that i was like i'm not risking it went to the doctor got antivirals um went on the antivirals did not realize they were going to dry up my milk supply oh my god so all the hard work i'd done i went from making about 20 meals to nothing and it was oh my i tell you like i said to him i was like what am i doing wrong like have i like am i changing the pad like have i been taking the wrong herbs like what's going on and then i went back to see my doctor because we were then essentially on a time crunch we were like okay well we have maybe two weeks until the boys are here like i wanted to be able to breastfeed them by this point and um the doctor was like it would have been the antivirals because if you took antivirals or um you know like the pseudofed yeah yeah yeah they dried up yeah i didn't i have allergies and i didn't realize that they dry up all your mucus um fluids that are released everywhere from head to toe yeah yeah so i spoke to my doctor and she was like you already have the breast tissue so the breast tissue is there yeah we just need to encourage the milk production again and i was like okay and she's like look i know you you wanted to do it all natural but how about you go on don peridone yeah she goes just to get it going once it's going you can swap back on to the herbs and maintain it that way and she said once the boys are there and the boys are feeding you'll be like that will help as well and so I went okay cool we did that we went on Dom Peridone and increased the dose quite rapidly that definitely brought the milk production back but the effects on my mental health were nuts from the fact that you had to take a tablet or just the effects that the tablet were having on your mental health the effects of the tablet on my mental health yeah okay so to induce lactation you have to increase your prolactin levels and prolactin is um prolactin and dopamine are um against they work against each other so when prolactin goes up dopamine goes down dopamine's our reward hormone yeah so my reward hormone went down and that kind of carries with it that happy feeling yeah that went down and i was like it's just because i'm working a lot it's just because it's a stressful time we've passed the 36 weeks so it was like any time could be baby time um and a lot of pressure and so i just i went it's all right we'll just keep going We were really lucky in the fact that we had a fantastic midwife through midwife, uh, new life midwifery. Yep. Um, and Yanni, who was our midwife was really good. She kept a very close eye on me, which was great. I didn't realize why she was keeping a very close eye on me, uh, until the boys came. Um, and I mean, when the boys came, it was so great because after they were born, I could breastfeed them. Yeah. So did you and Amy like breastfeed for the first time? at the same time yes yeah so she got to breastfeed Arlo first I got to breastfeed Atreus first so it's really interesting because Arlo has a better bond with Amy and Atreus has a better
SPEAKER_01:bond
SPEAKER_00:with me oh wow so yeah so the first two hours of his life he got to breastfeed from me and then you just like swapped yeah then we just swapped it over and Yanni was great she helped us get the latches right and everything like that that's amazing yeah and we have a picture of us in the hospital I I'm on like the big chair thing. Amy's in the bed and we've each got a baby and a toasted cheese sandwich in the hand. Oh, that's cool. If you had had a single one baby, would you have still tried to breastfeed? Yeah. And then you would have just shared that? Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. It was always something that I wanted to do, especially because I... And I mean, now we've come to the decision not to have any more kids. So I'm all about experiencing everything in life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And so I was like, well, I won't get to experience pregnancy. So I'd love to experience breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_00:so that's why I was like, yeah, it doesn't matter if it was a singleton, quads, please. No. Yeah. Imagine like both of you, one on each breast. Yeah. Oh my God. The work and the washing. Yeah. Yeah. So we breastfed and we both breastfed for, for a month solidly during that first month and a lot of like new parents might know especially that first two weeks it's rough you're in the trenches um the cluster feeding that's what i remember like i remember saying harry something wrong with her yeah like she won't stop crying unless she's feeding yeah i messaged my friend and she was like yep cluster feeding that's it yeah that's insane yeah sane and intense yeah yeah and amy's milk didn't come in straight away oh wow yeah so her milk took three days to properly come in and i mean that's very common if you've had the centosan drip yeah um and yeah so her milk didn't come in straight away so they were getting a fair bit from me but there was the pressure on me luckily we did also have like because we've been pumping amy and like collecting colostrum yeah since week 32 yeah we're pumping
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:come on amy come on line it up yeah pump on each yeah she um which normally we don't recommend that you start pumping or anything that early because it can induce labour yes yeah theoretically but because Amy we thought bumps were coming early we're like well fuck it we gotta do it anyways yeah yeah yeah yeah so we had quite a good stock of um colostrum in the fridge that we were working through yeah um and so yeah all the pressure was on me to breastfeed
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:um which was fine it was fine it was a lot yeah and the boys were just they were rough I was very again very naive yeah who isn't though oh mate like I have often said if I had known what I know now I would have been like nope I'm out by yeah see I mean milk yourselves that's it it was yeah the first like little while was really rough and the boys were very cry yeah and it ended we found out too they had quite bad tongue and lip ties yeah okay um luckily though because we were aware of that we got them um dealt with really early yeah and so that improved their latch which then helped with the crying yeah less than crying yeah yeah but i remember because yanni was great she came and did post um partum checks at home yeah We were like day five and I said to her, is it normal for them to cry this much like all the time? And she's like, yep. Yeah. She goes, you're just in the hard points. It gets better. Just you're at the bottom now. It comes out. But I remember being like, I can't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No, no, that's okay. It was really rough. Yeah. And it got to the point where... I was taking high doses of the Domperidone as well as the herbs. And my mental health was so far down. Yeah. We can pause. It's all right. Okay. And one night I remember sitting up and I was like, I can't do this. Yeah. I was like, it's not that I can't do the babies or the relationship. I can't do life. Yeah. And I mentioned to Amy, I said, I can't do this. I could see why so many people would leave or commit suicide in this first bit because I'm there. And there's one day I could not stop crying and sobbing from the soul. And my mum came over. And at this time, my dad was really sick in hospital. But Amy called my mum because she was like, Cinta's not doing okay. And I'm scared for her. And my mum came over and I remember mum sitting on the couch. And I said to mum, because I'm Christian as well, I said to her, I don't understand why God won't come get me. Because I don't want to be here. Oh, fuck. And so, like, it got to the point where I was making plans. And we had an appointment with Yarny. And, you know, you keep everything together. And then she looked at me and she's like, how are you? And that was it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Everything came out. And Yarny was like, stop the medication. She goes, it's the medication doing this to you. Stop it. Yeah. And I was like, but I want to breastfeed. And she goes, you'll be more help for the boys and for Amy. if you were there yeah then what you are killing yourself trying to breastfeed
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:so we made the decision to stop breastfeeding so yeah that was we got a good month out of it um and it was almost immediate the change yeah um so by the next day i said to him it was like holy crap the pressure that feels like it's lifted off my brain yeah is i can feel like your relief yeah like right now even just yes saying that point in your story I can physically feel your relief yeah it was yeah it was a lot yeah um and I mean it's great that I got to experience that because now I can watch for that with my patients
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah
SPEAKER_00:and the other thing that the whole this whole ordeal taught me was everyone looks after or looks at the mum not many people look at the birthing partner yeah whether that's Be male or female. Exactly. And we don't have the hormones that the moms do to connect with the baby. And I struggled with connection with the boys. Yeah. Especially when I was in that deep state where I was like, I cannot look at them. I didn't want to touch them. Yeah. Because I was like, every time I hold them, I was like, I hate you. I hate you so much. And it's really hard now. No, it's understandable. Yeah. And then you feel guilt. So much guilt. yeah because this is what we wanted right yeah and i was like this is what you wanted this is what you asked for this is what you prayed for yeah
SPEAKER_01:why
SPEAKER_00:aren't you happy yeah and so that was really hard to work through um but it made me go for all my pregnant women who come in and postpartum i always tell them check on your partner
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:because you don't know what's going on underneath yeah because amy knew to a degree and i mean amy and i have a really close relation so I could be very open with her about all of this but she didn't know how close I was getting to it how close I was getting to ending my life and when she after I came out of it she was like that was the scariest time for me she goes because I was like I don't know if I'll have you there to help me with the boys in the future yeah so that was probably a big very big lesson
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah a very big experience that i didn't want to experience yeah but i'm grateful i got to experience as well yeah yeah and now that it's 11 months on yeah and you can look back on that experience do you feel like how do you feel about it um in this time in this 11 months i've also um been gone through a diagnosis of adhd yeah um and autism and I was like so that added to all of that
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:and I can kind of look back and go I wasn't coping because all of these factors were impacting yeah and so it was kind of like there was no hope because I didn't have the right support systems in place because I didn't know. Yeah. If I had known that I had autism, I mean, you suspect, but if I had known that properly, I've seen, um, undiagnosed, but pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I had known properly, I would have had better support systems in place. Yeah. And I'm a massive advocate for herbs, nutrition, all of that stuff. But sometimes medication plays a role.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And, And I've since gone on some medication and it's really helped. And it's made me, I've built a better bond with the boys and I can play with them now. When you say medication, is that for ADHD or is it for antidepressants? Yeah, so ADHD. So yeah, so I went on medication for ADHD and actually the way it quieted my mind and took away the anxiety, I was like, holy shit, there's only one tab open, not a thousand tabs. Yeah. God, I
SPEAKER_01:know that,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. Yeah. yeah it's um yeah it's very different to what i was used to yeah but it gives me clarity to be able to be there for amy and be there for the boys and be present yeah without resentment which was big because before i would be like there's a thousand things i need to do whereas now i can be like it's okay i can be here with you yeah and i can form these bonds i can watch as you take your first steps i can be there as you feed the dog at the dinner yeah yeah okay and do you ever have points where you like feel those feelings creeping back in or do you feel like that's a part that's moved like you've moved on from there it's in the past now oh look occasionally those moments do creep in yeah um not like what they did yeah so that was a very yeah overbearing all consuming yeah whereas now sometimes when things get a little bit overwhelming it actually hasn't been as bad since i've been on the medication yep um because before the medication when things got really overwhelming sometimes those thoughts would creep in but never to the point where planning was involved again yeah right yeah whereas now how far had you planned like all the way right okay yeah it was kind of like we'd gotten to the point where i was like if i did it on a friday at least i knew that her parents could be there for her because she'd have that they'd have the time of work shit yeah
SPEAKER_01:well
SPEAKER_00:So it was like to that degree.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, so it was a very, very dark time and I'm glad I didn't. Yeah. Because I would have missed a lot. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with me and being so vulnerable. Sorry. No, it's really beautiful. I always feel really honored when people feel comfortable enough to open up to me and share their story. Yeah. Thank you for having me. No, thank you so much.