My two cervix and how I lost my virginity twice.

Imagine the surprise you would feel losing your virginity for the first time again! Well that's exactly what happened to Michaela. 

Join us as we discuss Michaela's not so rare experience (1 in 2000) with having two cervix's and uterus'; and how it affected her relationships, fertility and mental health. 

She shares some incredible insight and advice that she would give to her younger self, and some we should all take.

If you have any questions that you would love to ask Michaela you can reach us @uncommonex on insta!

Don't forget to like & follow.

Shea xx

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to the Uncommon Exposé, where it's my mission to connect, empower and embolden all women through lived experience to erase shame, disconnect and judgment. If you have an open mind, then I'd love for you to join me as I share these women's stories. If you have a question for my guest, you can send me a DM on Instagram at UncommonX. Make sure you hit follow when you're there. Good morning! Welcome to my podcast. Thank you so much for coming in. I think I need to change that intro because I'm always like,

SPEAKER_00: 0:38

welcome! And it's getting a little bit repetitive, so I'm going to do something for the next session. But thank you for coming on and telling me, sharing with me your story. Your story is super interesting, I think. I'm not going to say what it is because that's your

SPEAKER_01: 0:56

place, but super interesting and I have lots and lots of questions. But I will get you to introduce yourself and then just introduce what you're here to talk about.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06

Sure. Hi, I'm Michaela. I'm 31 years old and I have a daughter, Alina. So I was diagnosed when I was 15 with a condition, I guess, called uterus didelphys. So basically I have two vaginas. Yes. The non-technical terms. Yeah. Yeah. So when I was 15, I just had really heavy periods which i thought were just really heavy periods and i had really bad cramps so i went to the doctor how old were you when you got your period your first period i was 13 okay it was the end of year eight yeah yes so that's a very typical age yeah so like i was wearing pads because obviously mom was like no you're not wearing tampons because i was a bit young um but yeah i started getting stomach pains and my cramps were pretty bad so I went to the doctors they referred me to get an ultrasound and in the ultrasound the lady's like oh you're special and I was like what tell me more please and she's like you have two uterus and I'm like how many are you supposed to have and she's like just one and I was like okay so then I obviously had follow up doctor's appointments and it was kind of just information overload in those doctor's appointments and

SPEAKER_01: 2:30

at 15 Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

Like you care, but you just don't really

SPEAKER_01: 2:34

understand the full extent

SPEAKER_00: 2:36

of anything. I knew I always wanted to be a young mum. Yeah. But I didn't know, I didn't know the journey that I was going to have.

SPEAKER_01: 2:43

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00: 2:43

And, you know, when you're 15, they obviously tell you not to worry and not to get pregnant. So use protection. And so I was on the pill for, to try and help with the cramping. Yeah. I was on the pill for like... I think six years

SPEAKER_01: 3:02

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 3:03

from then so anyway so they told me that it might be a bit harder for me to get pregnant um they didn't tell me really anything else about the anatomy I knew nothing so I just still thought that I had the heavy periods and then when I started to get a bit older and I was wearing um I started wearing tampons I still had to wear like a pad or a liner because I just thought it's just coming down the side yeah yeah it wasn't filling the tampon Yeah. But it was just coming down the side. Um, and then I, my ex and I, we, um, were having intercourse one day and I lost my virginity, which I didn't know at the time that I'd lost my second virginity.

SPEAKER_01: 3:49

Yeah. So you've lost your virginity twice then.

SPEAKER_00: 3:53

Yeah. Two, two different men or? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

Yeah. But with the first one, like how old were you the first time? Uh, I was 16 okay yeah and at that point you still just thought there was just one one cervix yeah which I wouldn't if even I didn't pay attention in like sex ed yeah so like I didn't know any I didn't know anything really and like we never I guess my parents weren't the kind to sit down and have the yeah yeah that was at school yeah um so yeah I always just thought that it was just the two uteruses

SPEAKER_01: 4:31

let's describe a normal i'm going to pull up a google image a normal i shouldn't say normal i feel like that

SPEAKER_00: 4:38

oh it is normal it's actually so uterus idelphys there's so many different types of uterus idelphys

SPEAKER_01: 4:45

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 4:46

and shapes and sizes yeah like we can get into that though yeah um but mine i know that it's approximately one in two thousand women wow not uncommon yeah Yeah, more than. But I guess you don't go up to someone and go, hi, I'm Kayla. How many do you have? So with

SPEAKER_01: 5:08

a regular vagina, normal vagina, it goes vagina like canal, I guess. And then cervix, which is like a barrier between the vaginal wall and up into the uterus. Then that's when you imagine what looks like to kind of like a T or a sheep's head. That's your cervix, which then spreads out into fallopian tubes and your ovaries.

SPEAKER_00: 5:32

So where does yours differ? So mine is normal on the outside, very normal. Three holes of urine poo-poos. The professional medical term for the poo-poos and then a vaginal hole. So basically as you go up into the vagina or the vaginal hole, as you go in there's like a main hole It's straight up, but I call it the right one. Okay. And then slightly off to the left is the second hole. The second one. So when I had lost my virginity.

SPEAKER_01: 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

During the intercourse. Yeah. He, I think, was going a little bit too hard and went off to the left. Yeah. Very painful. And then I was bleeding. I went and had a shower. Did some exercise. exploration just to see what was going on see if i can feel what's going on there was like yeah because a little bit

SPEAKER_01: 6:38

of i guess you've already lost your virginity once so what could be making what could be bleeding did you just think maybe at the time you got your period like unexpectedly but then i guess there's lots

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

of pain but then it didn't continue so i called my best friend i'm like you need to come over asap yeah because i need you to look inside because i obviously cannot yeah um and my My partner doesn't know what he's looking for. Men. Yeah. And their well-rounded knowledge of female anatomy. Exactly. So like there was like a little bit of like a, what would you call it? Like a flicky, like a piece of cartilage. What's that thing that's at the back of your throat? That's exactly what it felt like. I don't remember what it felt like. Or what I could only imagine that would feel like or look like. So I could feel that. And so after I got out of the shower, I was still slightly bleeding. And so I'm on the bed, legs up. She's like investigating. Good on her. What a good friend. That is the epitome. Are you still friends with her? Oh, we're still best friends. Okay, good. That's what you want. Yeah. So she's looking, having a feel to see if anything, she could feel the bit of, I guess, cartilage,

SPEAKER_02: 7:44

would you call

SPEAKER_00: 7:45

it? Well, this is what we were discussing just before. I think it was your hymen. Oh, yes. And so we were, history lesson here, years ago when women had to be virgins, the hymen was the indicator of whether you were a virgin or not and the man during intercourse would then break the hymen and the amount of blood that came out would be the fact that blood came out would be an indicator that the woman was a virgin and if you can break your hymen in all sorts of different areas like playing ball sport I fell when I was small and about 8 or 6 and broke mine so it's not an actual verifiable indicator of virginity but years ago if there wasn't enough blood or any blood on the sheets they would put

SPEAKER_01: 8:36

animal blood on the sheets hang the sheets out of the window to prove that the

SPEAKER_00: 8:39

woman was a virgin and that the marriage had been consummated so i think it was your hymen but i could have saved someone years ago yeah you could have that's right um so yeah i think i think it would have been your hymen yeah i that was dangling there for a bit yeah did that just like go away itself yeah I don't think it's there now just like absorb like you want to get your wisdom teeth out or something yeah I think it just grows grows into the normal skin maybe yeah I don't know but that happened and it was horrible and it was painful yeah and yeah so she checked it out for me and then um we my partner at the time and I we'd gotten engaged when I was very young and dumb and i think all i wanted at the time was the house the marriage and the kids so we've done the house we're getting married and then we're like okay well we want to be young parents let's get all the tests done obviously we need to look into what's to go with these two uteruses

SPEAKER_01: 9:52

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 9:53

um and see what issues that may cause yeah um so i got my AMH level assessor which is my egg count and all the hormone tests because my periods also weren't very and I think it was the pill and getting off the pill so I think it was February the year that I turned 22 which oh god that's 9 years ago now I actually got off the pill and from then my period was really it was not regular at all um and i was in a lot of pain so after we got all those tests done i went and got another ultrasound and at the very last minute of that ultrasound the sonographer is that what it's called

SPEAKER_01: 10:46

sonographer

SPEAKER_00: 10:46

yeah i think so he was like did you know you have two cervixes and i said now what's a cervix of the vagina is a cervix yeah and he's like the vaginal canal you've got got two and i'm like well i knew i had two vagina like two uteruses but i didn't know and this is like six years later yeah um and i'm like but i didn't know i had the two services so hey well i went back to the doctor he referred me to the redlands hospital the gynecology gynecology there and i was getting a pap smear and they wanted to have a look i guess and i It ended up being like 10 people looking inside of my vagina. They could not find this other cervix. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's like as you go in, I'm trying to like direct them because I found it at this point. And at the next corner, take a left. Yeah. Yeah. And like at this point, I was obviously wearing tampons. So I've had to wear two tampons, one for each hole. Yeah. So like I knew where it was and I'm trying to put their hands and their fingers. Right. Yeah. So sorry, just to backtrack, when you found the second hole yourself

SPEAKER_01: 12:04

during

SPEAKER_00: 12:06

sex, you didn't do anything about that? Like go to a doctor or did you just? Well, it was pretty close to when we were going to be looking at trying for a baby. So it kind of all was around that time. Yeah, okay, yeah. So yeah, we just, I didn't realize that I had the other hole there though. Like I just thought it was normal, you know. I probably felt that there was like no wall there. Yeah. Yeah. But I was, I think I was so hyper-focused on this little dangly bit.

UNKNOWN: 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:35

Sorry. It's fine. Oh, it's fine. So they were, back to the original story, they were

SPEAKER_01: 12:40

putting their fingers and you were trying

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

to direct them. And they couldn't find it. So I ended up having to get a sedated pap smear. Jesus. So. Did you see any female doctors in that time? Were they all men? They were all men. They were all men. They were all men. Yeah. So it's pretty confronting though, like having like, and I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say that. 10 doctors that had come in yeah um that is very i don't know male there's nothing wrong with male doctors but i prefer

SPEAKER_01: 13:07

to see a female

SPEAKER_00: 13:07

doctor yeah same and i do request that now yeah me too now that i'm a bit less naive and you know um so we did that the sedated pap smear and then i had follow-up doctor's appointments and everything um and during those doctor's appointments um They were telling me all the risks of what could happen, whether they take out the septum, which is actually the wall that cuts the uterus and the cervix in half. So basically, and they also told me that when you're a baby, nothing is developed down there. So as you get older, you develop your uterus and your cervix. So as I got older... my uterus and cervix developed with a wall going down the middle of it. And that's the only thing in your body that developed with that wall? I believe so. I hope so. The heart. I have normal amount of kidneys. Everything else seems fine. Yeah, so basically it was just that wall that was developed as I was growing. Yeah. We don't know if it's like hereditary or anything like that. I mean, I can't really ask anyone now because we don't really know what I know. has it?

SPEAKER_01: 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:30

In the family. Yeah. Um, so yeah, another one of the risks, which was quite frightening and I guess stressed me out my whole twenties was the doctor said to me, you need to have babies by your 30, by the time you're 30. Otherwise you'll have to plan for a future without babies. So growing up my whole twenties, I had this stress. So even though my relationship it was totally it was honestly doomed yeah from the start yeah um we went on to get married um we were trying to conceive my egg count results sorry were extremely low at 21 oh wow so i had like the egg count of like a 40 something year old so i had that against me as well

SPEAKER_01: 15:22

did they i'm sure that they did but they did count both

SPEAKER_00: 15:25

ovaries yes like they didn't just get confused blood test. Oh is it? Yeah. So I don't really know the science term of that. Me either.

SPEAKER_01: 15:37

If

SPEAKER_00: 15:37

you know feel free to send me a message. That would be good. But I think so they say that it can't increase but over the years mine had increased a little bit. Oh interesting. So like when I I'll get there soon but when I got it a couple of years ago before Alina was born it was up a little bit higher. Oh

SPEAKER_01: 15:56

positive.

SPEAKER_00: 15:57

So that was really good. Yeah. So another couple um

SPEAKER_01: 16:03

why sorry is it just because of the egg count that's why you had to have well you were told that you needed to have babies in your 20s because your egg count was low or is there a risk to do with

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

the cervix so there's a risk with the uterus i dealt first one it's cut in half so depending on how big it can stretch like i guess where the implant where the embryo or egg and sperm implant yeah which i found out later um that's why i had some miscarriages it was when where the egg actually implanted

SPEAKER_01: 16:42

right

SPEAKER_00: 16:43

so you managed to fall pregnant when you were trying but they just not with my ex okay so my periods were all over the place

SPEAKER_01: 16:52

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 16:52

so we were seeing i was seeing fertility specialists

SPEAKER_01: 16:55

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 16:56

um and they all said that you have a higher risk of mis with the uterus didelphys. Yeah. You have a higher rate of stillbirth and just to not get pregnant.

SPEAKER_01: 17:12

Yeah. And were your periods all over the place because you were having two periods?

SPEAKER_00: 17:18

Well, it was also my hormones were out. So I had nothing on my side. Yeah. So my thyroid at one point was too high. My prolactin started to increase like skyrocket to the point where i was leaking uh when you weren't pregnant yeah oh wow yeah yeah so we had all like those tests done i didn't realize at the time at that point that my prolactin had increased it was mainly my thyroid i was seeing gynecologists and fertility specialists so i did like the whole temperature tracking uh i was doing like vitamin I was getting scans back then to see if I had eggs in which side. And this was all with your eggs? Yeah, with my eggs. Eggs, sorry. Oh, with my eggs. My eggs and my eggs. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 18:22

okay good your eggs and your

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

eggs yes and his sperm yeah okay good to know so after a while of trying he told me it was my fault which i already felt like i was a complete failure and my body wasn't doing what it what most women are made to do yeah right so that relationship was completely breaking down it was probably just short of two years after we got married and I was like well I can't keep trying with you that was that's a whole story in itself but I left and then two weeks later I met Dean oh yeah after I'd left and so that's your current partner yeah he was meant to just be a fling yeah so we were never gonna amount to anything but then obviously he was he's a really good egg yeah so I couldn't let him go

SPEAKER_01: 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:23

And we just got along so well. And, like, he knew a lot, I guess, of what was going on because I worked with his brother.

SPEAKER_01: 19:31

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

So, you know, I would vent to his brother on the phone, in the car on the way home, and Dean would be there with him. Yeah, right. So he knew, like, a lot, I guess, of my life because I'm an open book. Yeah. Which we love. Yeah. And so he and I started seeing each other and then obviously we made it official. Yeah. And I told him that if we're going to want a baby, we're going to have to, I guess, start trying. Like this is like a year down the track. Well, that's still a decent amount of time. Start trying but not. Just stop not trying. Stop not trying. So then, like, again, I don't know if it was just because of stress, but my hormones were out of whack. And this one night we were doing some things and he saw milk on his hand oh wow yeah and he's like what the fuck like are you okay and i was just like yeah and i was just and and he could taste it oh wow yeah yeah yeah no that's fair yep we will we will get the picture you're painting yep and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry where did that come from surprise to me too and then it was i was like not drunk wrench but I was like had milk all loaded me and I was like what so I obviously that's not the first time that had happened just the first time this is a time that I was milking yes the very first time yes so I was shocked he was shocked you were you were okay yeah and so we um obviously booked in a doctor's appointment yeah and so how long had you been together at this point 12 months maybe just shorter 12 months okay that's a decent amount of time yeah yeah so I booked in the doctor's room and saw the doctor got all the tests done prolactin's high uh which is uh i think cinta explained it really well last week on the podcast

SPEAKER_01: 21:36

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 21:37

so when your prolactin is high i believe she said your dopamine is low yeah um but it thinks that you're basically a breastfeeding mother

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 21:47

so when you're breastfeeding your prolactin skyrockets

SPEAKER_01: 21:50

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 21:51

uh so mine was quite high enough for me to be leaking

SPEAKER_01: 21:55

that's and just hormones like I mean like you

SPEAKER_00: 22:00

yeah so it's a pregnant it's one of the main pregnancy hormones I believe yes but you weren't pregnant at all no no and I'd never fallen pregnant

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

and you don't know what the trigger was for

SPEAKER_00: 22:13

your

SPEAKER_01: 22:13

body to think

SPEAKER_00: 22:14

I got referred to a endocrinologist and they deal with all the pregnancy hormones um And she said that I had a benign microadenoma tumor on my pituitary gland. Oh, shit. So it wasn't like a big one. It was micro. But that can stop your periods and make you milk. Yeah. So I had to get like MRI scans to get that all checked out. And then I had to go on this medication called Dostinex, which they give Dostinex to mums that don't want to breastfeed anymore or if you just have a baby and you want to stop your milk coming in they'll give them that medication

SPEAKER_01: 23:00

so

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

I was on that and yeah we were we were like starting to go okay well let's really try now we'll start to you know start tracking like ovulation temperature we got referred from the doctor to a sorry the trim is still in there uh i yeah it was just before i felt pregnant there was a little one in there yeah okay yeah yeah so no no you don't have to get it removed all that they were looking out for was that it doesn't grow because it can affect your eyes

SPEAKER_01: 23:44

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 23:45

and give you blurry vision

SPEAKER_01: 23:47

yeah sorry you were

SPEAKER_00: 23:48

that's okay tracking yeah we're tracking ovulation We got referred to our fertility specialist. So we started off with Dr. Neil Astle. He's in Sunnybank and he was really good. We didn't want to go down the IVF or IUI route straight away. So basically I would just go in monthly for scans to see which ovary I was releasing an egg from so i had like normal two ovaries

SPEAKER_01: 24:25

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:25

yeah that link to the uterus each one each yeah so i would go in monthly for the scans to see which side it wasn't a lot

SPEAKER_01: 24:35

of work isn't it

SPEAKER_00: 24:36

already and money like yeah i wasn't on any medication at that point yeah i was just trying to get all my hormones right see if i was actually ovulating

SPEAKER_01: 24:46

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:47

and i had eggs there to drop

SPEAKER_01: 24:49

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:49

but they just weren't taking

SPEAKER_01: 24:51

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:51

Dean had gotten tested in all of this time. Cinta had looked over his sperm results. His were mostly fine. There was no, again, I'm feeling like a failure. But he never made me feel like that, which is really nice. So I guess, yeah, we just kind of worked together. He did everything that he needed to do. I did everything that I needed to do. And it just wasn't taking. Like I'd even tried... the anti-inflammatory diets. I was getting the acupuncture with Cinta. And that I found mentally helpful. But then obviously the financial costs of everything, I couldn't maintain it doing it weekly. And that was really tough. And yeah, so he then started me on letrozole, which is... it's meant to help like boost your eggs and quality like quantity and quality and that the side effects of the letrozole it's like I was probably quite grumpy your libido majorly plummets well I mean mine did mine did yeah there was just a lot of really shitty shitty side effects on that but I was on that for like months and then he'd be like take a break from it but because I wanted a baby so much and i had tablets there i didn't take a break from it because i obsessed over it

SPEAKER_01: 26:27

yeah and is that your personality generally or do you yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 26:31

yes yeah i definitely am having an obsession yeah obsessive personality

SPEAKER_01: 26:37

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

okay yeah so then we decided that we would do ibf and that was i think three years ago now so basically we've been trying to conceive what's that yeah mean

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

with

SPEAKER_00: 26:50

the

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

cough this time.

SPEAKER_00: 26:51

No that's okay. We were trying to conceive for I think four and a half years. Wow. So we then reached out to First Step Fertility here in Springfield. Yep. And they were really good like they allowed us to go with Dr. Astle. So then he did all my like retrievals, transfers and he knew my anatomy.

SPEAKER_01: 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:14

So basically yeah we tried I think two rounds with them of retrievals and maybe three transfers yeah and nothing or i fell pregnant once with one of those eggs and we lost it at six

SPEAKER_01: 27:30

weeks

SPEAKER_00: 27:32

yeah okay but i will rewind i do apologize so you're

SPEAKER_01: 27:34

going

SPEAKER_00: 27:35

to cover your mouth in like a secret now i will rewind the i can't remember when we started that round of ibf but the january of the year that we started a couple years ago i actually fell pregnant naturally oh

SPEAKER_01: 27:53

wow

SPEAKER_00: 27:54

yeah and i believe that was a letrozole cycle

SPEAKER_01: 27:57

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 27:57

but we lost that after yeah six weeks so they were all very very early

SPEAKER_01: 28:03

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 28:04

so that's why we decided okay well i can i seem to be able to fall pregnant let's do the ibf and when you think of ibf you think i'm gonna fall pregnant

SPEAKER_01: 28:15

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 28:15

like you you think it you can't fail

SPEAKER_01: 28:18

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 28:18

because you're paying all this money and they're literally putting it and implanting it in you

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

how much do you think at that point whether the IVF pregnancy took how much do you think that that would have cost you financially for everything

SPEAKER_00: 28:33

for

SPEAKER_01: 28:33

everything so

SPEAKER_00: 28:33

far if you can off the top of the head like including the acupuncture gosh I should have thought about this beforehand oh it was thousands yeah like five thousand seven thousand ten thousand I mean thank god for medicare oh yeah yeah probably up to 20 plus wow I

SPEAKER_01: 28:52

ask only because people know that it's a lot of money but yeah well we sometimes obviously IVF is lump sums or like a big amount that you see but when you add in all of those other little things that

SPEAKER_00: 29:05

you're trying the medications alone when you're doing IVF is almost 500 to a thousand depending what medications are on the PBS

SPEAKER_01: 29:14

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 29:14

okay of that month or

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 29:16

yeah so yeah we decided to do IVF yeah so first at fertility in springfield their bog bill yeah okay but you're still forking out a few grand yeah um and then yeah we did quite a few rounds we did a few rounds with them didn't work or didn't take or we lost a cup we lost one and then we decided to go privately with dr astle

SPEAKER_01: 29:42

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 29:43

and we just in the end like i lost another two babies I've had another two miscarriages. About six

SPEAKER_01: 29:51

weeks as well?

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

Yeah. Yeah, one was maybe five weeks, one was six weeks. But, you know, you get that positive test. That's all you've been longing for basically my whole 20s.

SPEAKER_01: 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:03

And you just feel like– and you're approaching 30. Yeah. Like you just feel like the biggest failure. So I got to a point where probably after the third miscarriage, and this is over a few years. Yeah. and I was like I may have to make the decision to leave Dean because I can't do this to him and then I had like mum and my friend and Dean all telling me don't take that decision away from Dean because if he wants to be with you like he knows that what's going on he knows everything why would you take that away from him when he wants to be with you and he always said if we can't I wanted be with you yeah so I was just like I can't take that away from him can I can I so yeah that was really I just felt like I was never gonna give him and we couldn't continue to go through the same cycle

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 31:05

like it'd been what four and a half years coming up to the end of it like I got to a point where so after we got had our last miscarriage and we were like one more round of IVF Yeah. One more. And leading up, sorry, leading up to that, I actually, this is kind of hard to talk about, but I became really depressed. So I was seeing a lady at the Rosie room. Yeah. And I didn't want to get out of bed. Like it was just same shit, same day, same routine. I was hating life. And I knew that I had to contact someone because I rang... Who was it? One, three, Lifeline. Oh,

SPEAKER_02: 31:54

okay.

SPEAKER_00: 31:54

I rang Lifeline and I said, I can't keep living anymore because I don't know how to. I don't want to live without a child. I can't break up with my partner because he wants to be with me and I want to be with him, but I can't give him that. So I don't want to be here. I don't want to wake up in the morning. And

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

now hormones and things like that are going to change your mindset. you never considered not having a baby. Like you just said, then you can't live without a baby.

SPEAKER_00: 32:24

Well, that's the, that's the mindset that I was in. That was like, that's how I was feeling. And I was, um, yeah, I'd be driving and I'd go and I'd think if I run into that guardrail and don't take my foot off the brake, like,

SPEAKER_01: 32:43

yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

I, I would be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01: 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:46

And then I'd be like, okay, but I have family. Like, and Dean and our dog. Yeah, yeah. And, like, yeah, I didn't want to be there. So then I contacted the Rosie room because I was like, me calling Lifeline, like, that is obviously serious and I don't know what's going to happen because I just saw black. I just saw black. I couldn't see a future. And I said to Dean, I'm like, why can't I see a future? Is that because I'm not going to be here? Like, am I going to die? Yeah. So I was just like, yeah, okay. that's I can't live like that because it's not gonna I won't be living at all

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

yeah yeah

SPEAKER_00: 33:25

so I rang the rosy room booked an appointment um she was really good I had I think five or six sessions with her and in the last session she says I think well judging from all of our sessions I didn't want to just diagnose you or get you to go on medication but you are depressed

SPEAKER_01: 33:48

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 33:49

and I I think you should go on medication there are medications that you can take while you're pregnant or while you're trying to conceive and so I was like okay that was a bit of a shock even though I knew like I had a feeling like you know it's depression that runs in the family on my dad's side yeah and I knew but I was in denial I think

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 34:11

um so I went to the doctor and was there relief or just shock a bit of both yeah okay feel was relief in the sense of okay this is it's okay yeah like there's re like it's okay yeah like i had just me yeah something else going on like chemically yeah inside yeah and i think it's because it's all i had been doing in my 20s my whole 20s was trying to conceive trying to get my hormones right there was just one roadblock after another yeah just constant shit yeah and So I booked in a doctor's appointment and saw the doctor and he said, I can't give you anything. And I said, what do you mean? I'm here because I need help. Yeah, yeah. I'm reaching out because I don't want to be alive. Yeah. What do you mean you can't help me? And he says, I think you need to see your normal doctor because she was away. And I said, and so then she could give you a mental health review you and give you that medication I said but I'm here what if I walk out of this room or this and I don't want to be here anymore like what so I said can you just give me a script for a antidepressant that I can take while I'm trying to conceive or pregnant and he's like okay what was his rationale because he didn't know me because I'd seen the other doctor like she was my normal doctor yeah

SPEAKER_01: 35:49

okay

SPEAKER_00: 35:50

and i'm like i just need to so he ended up giving me the referral for the antidepressants yeah and so i got it and we're going to a wedding that day so i was like well i'll take it after and then i started taking i only took a half a dose because i don't usually take full doses of things unless i have to yeah because i hate being on any medications yeah and slowly but surely i started to feel i would say a little bit happier but a little bit emotionless

SPEAKER_01: 36:19

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 36:20

so like I was content I guess but I didn't feel sad but it's a really weird feeling yeah like really yeah yeah but I was more I could be happy I could get into a happier mindset but yeah I was feeling very numb and then so Dan and I had the discussion and this was only last year yeah before we conceived Alina and and we had the discussion i said honey we need to start looking at life without a baby

SPEAKER_01: 36:57

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 36:58

because i cannot i was just about to turn 30 and i was like i can't do this anymore i cannot go into my 30s yeah trying to conceive the up and the down like you're so hopeful at the start of the month you're you know you're doing something to try and get to that end result and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. for ibm like all the stimulants the injections and i hate needles so all the like all this time i've been having to get needles and i absolutely hate needles and so i know this one this one just felt i think i just didn't care as much to be honest with you i was just like whatever it's just we're doing it

SPEAKER_01: 38:08

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 38:08

and whatever i i have to plan my life without a baby yeah and so and then i could start seeing life without a baby yeah okay it wasn't black anymore yeah Yeah. And so we started... Maybe acceptance? Yeah, I think so. Like, mentally? Yeah, and I think with the energy presence, they helped me see, like, I guess, I don't know. Just find something positive to focus on, maybe? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We were, just before that round of IVF, actually, we had submitted an adoption paperwork.

SPEAKER_02: 38:43

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 38:44

So we did discuss that.

SPEAKER_02: 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:46

But we never followed through on... In the end, I just said, no, like, it's too... I can't, like I said, going into my 30s. Yeah. That's just another thing to stress about and get disappointed about. So... Yeah. I, yeah, started doing all the stimulations and, you know, we did the ultrasound to see how many eggs I had in my ovaries and we had three. And so... which is like, fuck all. But I never got too many. Like I'd always had like eight or six or, but something that we could work with, right? So I had three. And he's like, okay, that's not what we were hoping for. Go home, discuss it. If you want to go ahead with it, we can. Chances of us saving all three, very slim. But if you want to cancel So I was like, in the car, we were discussing it. And I just said, what are you thinking? I knew what I was thinking. Like, I knew in my mind. Dean knew in his mind. But he's like, what are you thinking? And I was like, I think we're thinking the same thing. But you have to say it first because I can't. And he's like, I don't want to upset you, but I think we need to cancel it. And I was like, I agree with you. Yeah. let's cancel it so rang him and he's like no that's fine if like do you want to ring city fertility rang them because he worked with them yeah rang them and they said to me on the phone because you've got three follicles don't have sex because you might fall pregnant and have a chance of having three oh three babies yeah and i was just like no worries thank you very much whatever yeah and And so I was like, yeah. And I was like to Dean, let's just take matters into our own hands this round. Like we'll cancel it. I rang my doctor and I said, hey, so hypothetically, if one were to take matters into their own hands, this is a hypothetical. When do they take the trigger shot? And he's like, well, on a hypothetical level, they would take it. 48 hours or whatever it was and then they would have intercourse at this time and so i was like thank you um so then i quickly jumped onto ebay and i ordered like sperm syringes and because i have like this special end on them

SPEAKER_01: 41:42

yeah that's what since i imagine turkey bay star but

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

yeah it's not as exciting i said

SPEAKER_01: 41:47

it

SPEAKER_00: 41:48

was a bit more rounded and gentle yes yes yeah and i text i actually texted cinta and i said to her hey hey girl hey talk to your wife yeah because we've all got to be on the same page but will you inseminate me

SPEAKER_01: 42:05

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

and i'm like please like no obligation yeah we do it we're all in it together we've all got to be on board so and that was as a friend not as like an acupuncturist business So I'm like, you did it for your wife. So you've got a pretty good, um, like understanding of the procedure. Yeah. And her wife got pregnant with twins. Yeah. And so she got back to me and she's like, yeah, like, that's fine. I'm happy to do that. So she told us what we needed to do.

SPEAKER_01: 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:42

And I think it was on the Friday. So like the syringes came the next day. And then the next day after that was insemination day. Whoa. And so she's like, we're coming over now. Tell Dean to have a shower and do his thing. And so I'm like, Dean, get in the shower. Do your thing. I

SPEAKER_02: 43:01

can imagine you like running

SPEAKER_00: 43:02

through the house. I was. And I'm like, honey, why are you in the spare shower? And he's just like, because you'll bother me. You'll interrupt me. And I'm like, yeah, okay, makes sense. Have fun. Enjoy. And then so they came over. Yeah. When he, like, does his thing, I imagine it has to be into a sterile cup. Yeah, I bought one from the chemist that day. You did? Okay, yeah. No, no, no, that's why. I definitely bought one. I was just a bit of Tupperware or an empty Coke bottle. Who knows? I would have sterilized it, but yes. Yeah, okay. But no, I got a little cup from the chemist that day. So it was all set up. Yeah. And so.

SPEAKER_01: 43:40

Mood music.

SPEAKER_00: 43:41

Yeah, yeah. Selection magazine. So they, yeah, pretty much. They walked in. We went into the kitchen. Amy's like, oh, just sit and watch. tv and i'm like amy you're in there too yeah we're all in this together and it's not amy's first vagina i'm sure right well she was standing at the so i'll set the scene for you for everyone yeah amy was standing at the door i was laying on the bed legs propped up dean was in the corner on the dog bed holding the dog back so then she didn't jump on me and then cinta is down at my business and yeah so yeah so she was very professional and very careful um and then she did it and then I just stayed propped up for 45 minutes and then this is where the mobile acupuncturist come into play she did um acupuncture straight after wow onto yeah for the tail bit stick yay and then they left yep and we watched the backup plan yep it's got JLo in it yep and she did the IUI so we needed all the baby juju yeah okay good and then I just stayed like that for like 45 minutes an hour and then I had a shower and went to bed and I think it was 10 days later so the trigger shot would have already been out of my system because that can last up to about 2 weeks but in my system I got rid of it about 10-11 days so it was out of my system and I was actually doing a workout with one of my friends at the gyms that she goes to and we went to the shops afterwards and i'm like oh just buy a pregnancy test hey let's just do it yeah it's probably not gonna work but yeah i didn't have any symptoms or anything

SPEAKER_01: 45:28

did you have hope

SPEAKER_00: 45:30

i did i had hope i think because we did the insemination and i knew that we had at least a chance of three

SPEAKER_01: 45:40

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 45:41

yeah and they hadn't been touched they hadn't been fondled yeah so this was

SPEAKER_01: 45:47

the first time out of all the other

SPEAKER_00: 45:49

trials of different routes was this the first time that you trialed IUI uh we did I did like an at home IUI ourselves I feel so guilty because Dean would be sick like this is how bad it got Dean would be really sick and I'd be like honey can in the shower can you just do it and then I'll just and then I'll just insert it yeah okay it was so bad so he he I would say committed yes yes committed to the cause But then I think he felt like there was one time where he's like, I will do whatever I have to do, but I will let you know. It's not a nice feeling being told, just go in the corner and come and give it to me.

SPEAKER_01: 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:33

Like, so I would, and then I kind of backed it, backed off the brakes a little bit then because I felt really guilty.

SPEAKER_01: 46:40

Yeah. I think I would too, but I can also understand your mindset. Yeah. And why you were doing the things that you were doing.

SPEAKER_00: 46:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was really hard when you said that. But it was a very long journey. Yeah, and

SPEAKER_01: 46:57

not to discredit how he was feeling, but it was even longer for you. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 47:01

yeah. You were getting to that end point, yeah. It was me that was... And there was a bit of a deadline. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:08

Yeah. A lot of pressure. Not to discredit, of course, his feelings of balance. No, no, no, of course. But there's more to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:15

Yeah, like, I mean, his, I guess his is more emotional, right? where he's got to emotionally be there for me like it was all about me for which i also felt very guilty for but he was so supportive

SPEAKER_01: 47:30

and men are different they're emotionally wired differently

SPEAKER_00: 47:34

yeah and they're very resilient

SPEAKER_01: 47:35

yeah and they don't really like yeah they're tougher yeah

SPEAKER_00: 47:39

yeah so i found so i did that pregnancy test that morning and yeah it was like this most faintest i'm like chrissy is it there is it positive can you see the line we're like obsessing over this like yeah in the light in the dark it was ridiculous and i'm like i swear there's a bit of a line but then i'm like is that the trigger yeah is that still in my system so then for a few days it was a bit of a spiral um but then also

SPEAKER_01: 48:09

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 48:10

it's like shit have i just got a positive pregnancy test am i gonna lose it

SPEAKER_01: 48:15

yeah of course

SPEAKER_00: 48:16

it was just like this whole lot of emotions

SPEAKER_01: 48:20

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 48:21

and then every day it got slightly dark and I'm like just waiting for the loss and so I booked into the doctor he gave me a referral I was pregnant it was like every other miscarriage it would be like yeah your htg's up but it would never double it would never so like in a space of like three weeks I'd get like what was it like 10 blood tests like a pin cushion

SPEAKER_01: 48:45

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 48:46

every single time um but then this one was doubling so I was going every second day to get a blood test for like ages is that common practice or was that just what you wanted to do to go every second day yeah that's I chose to do that I think if I hadn't had any losses or I think because of the other losses and I knew it wasn't doubling

SPEAKER_01: 49:07

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 49:08

and I mean the doctor was amazing he was like yeah just keep using like keep using it and going

SPEAKER_01: 49:15

no that's fine

SPEAKER_00: 49:16

so then it got to a to anymore Michaela like it's it's okay and then yeah we did you cry because I want to cry right now oh yeah I can imagine the elation and I and I was I started to slowly get off my antidepressants even though the emotions the feels it was all still there but I didn't want to go through pregnancy on it

SPEAKER_01: 49:44

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 49:44

I wanted to feel everything that I needed to feel

SPEAKER_01: 49:48

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 49:48

myself in pregnancy yeah and so like all the trauma was still there it's still there now just because i had a baby yeah um but yeah it was i guess it's just buried buried low far down

SPEAKER_01: 50:05

there's someone who doesn't experience grief i've seen lots of images and spoken to people who have the grief never goes away but your world grows around it so it might not be buried but now

SPEAKER_00: 50:15

you have big things that bring you joy that are connected to that grief so it might feel a bit different yeah yeah maybe that makes sense yeah but i had like a pretty good pregnancy um unfortunately my opposite oh sorry my fertility specialist he'd stopped delivering babies so we did that was unfortunate but we found a another obstetrician and he was amazing oh good yeah he was based in bowen hills um and he was the best and he had dealt with my condition

SPEAKER_01: 50:47

yeah probably positive that's good

SPEAKER_00: 50:49

before so he delivered like 10 babies that had the uterus I dealt with

SPEAKER_01: 50:53

see and yeah like that is to me quite common yeah not common but more common than I would have expected yeah 10 baby or 10 mothers

SPEAKER_00: 51:03

yeah yeah so he was I guess you could say relatively experienced yes so but he also told me a lot taught me a lot even when I was pregnant with Alina

SPEAKER_01: 51:15

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 51:15

so basically yeah where he says I Probably the four times that we had the miscarriages. If the egg was implanted too far into the right wall, she was never going to get enough nutrition. Well, they were never going to get enough

SPEAKER_01: 51:32

nutrition. Is the right wall... When you say right wall, do you mean the... To the left, like... The divide?

SPEAKER_00: 51:41

Yeah, so the septum, like the wall down... So if they implanted near the septum, then that was... Like the baby was... never going to get enough okay um nutrition yeah so where alina was implanted was perfect he said it's probably one of the best placenta like she couldn't have been better oh my god that's so good she's meant to be here in a little trooper she is and she's not meant to be a baby either she doesn't want to be a baby no she is ready for adulthood yeah pretty much oh good on her but like we had a pretty good pregnancy yeah very tight by 32 weeks i was like you need to cut her out of me because i don't know how she's going to grow but we made it to 37 and a half and i think she was pretty comfy in there

SPEAKER_01: 52:26

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 52:27

hey we didn't want to go any further because it could have caused more complications yes and she could have gotten had like the growth defects i think could have slowed down her growth

SPEAKER_01: 52:38

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 52:39

so but she was only two and a half kilos when she was born but you said this to me

SPEAKER_01: 52:44

before she was only growing in half a uterus yeah so i i would assume that that's a huge correlation to her being a petite little baby

SPEAKER_00: 52:54

yeah and like all the doctors previously had said you will not make it to full term yeah well i reckon i could have gotten to at least 38 39 weeks yeah yeah um but yeah and then you had a cesarean birth yeah that was it there was no other option you were just having cesarean or could you have he said i could have tried for a vaginal

SPEAKER_01: 53:17

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 53:17

but he also said that the risk of tearing and pushing her out could be really really dangerous yeah okay yeah so but you know what I was fine with having a cesarean I'm as long as she's out safely I'm fine yeah whatever happens yeah so but yeah like he was actually quite knowledgeable on it but he has said to me just because of my egg um count yeah he said that if you do want to go back for another one probably do it pretty much straight away after yeah okay we're at four months postpartum and i am not ready for another one yet yeah is all of your experience in pregnancy does that affect

SPEAKER_01: 54:04

any future pregnancies that you'd want to have

SPEAKER_00: 54:07

well he said if i can do it if i can fall pregnant in my left okay so she was in the right she was in the right okay he said that if i could fall pregnant in my left it would cause no further damage like yeah right it'd be like i've only had one baby in the right yeah it would be really good if i felt pregnant in the left but i don't think i could do ivf again that was a really dark really really dark time in my life and i think it'd be too triggering and yeah i couldn't imagine doing that with the baby well with the toddler

SPEAKER_01: 54:38

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 54:38

so

SPEAKER_01: 54:39

and then the left um uterus is connected to the the side cervix and whole

SPEAKER_00: 54:47

yeah so like the left has it's left cervix the side bit and that's you said that that was painful though yes yeah extremely painful yeah have any intercourse in there but even the syrups that they use like I couldn't even imagine for IVF yeah I couldn't even imagine them going opening it because it would be very very painful

SPEAKER_01: 55:09

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 55:11

wow but even now after having a baby yeah it is so painful even to say in that in the right oh sorry so neither in the regular the regular one yeah yeah

SPEAKER_01: 55:27

yeah oh okay do

SPEAKER_00: 55:31

you think that was oh i guess you had a cesarean that's unusual i don't know i think i think maybe because my body's not back to where it was like at the moment now even four months postpartum i haven't actually breastfed since she was 10 weeks and i'm still leaking so i had a blood test the other day and my prolactin was like double what it's ever been like when i've not been pregnant yeah so i'm back on that docinex medication yeah so that's but it'll be it'll take a bit of time to get back to that hormone back to normal and why did you choose not to breastfeed uh i never for the listeners there is never any judgment on breastfed bottle fed

SPEAKER_01: 56:16

any feeding i just would like to

SPEAKER_00: 56:19

hear yeah no that's okay your reasoning from before i had her i never had this big i want to breastfeed i was actually like if i can get to two weeks of breastfeeding i will be so proud of myself like i never had this whole attachment thing yeah thing yeah i was like i must breastfeed

SPEAKER_01: 56:37

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 56:37

so then i started to breastfeed i'm like if i can make four weeks yeah okay this will be good and it was like really convenient yeah but we never i don't think we ever like bonded over that

SPEAKER_01: 56:49

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 56:50

okay um i think yeah i just and then i was like if i can get to six and i ate them yeah i'll be really proud and then i just got to the point where i'm like i haven't had my body and it might be a bit selfish i don't know no not i haven't had my body

SPEAKER_01: 57:05

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 57:06

since i was 20 something

SPEAKER_01: 57:09

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 57:10

and i want to be able to do what i want with it

SPEAKER_01: 57:13

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 57:13

and i want it back

SPEAKER_01: 57:14

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 57:15

and especially if i'm I'll lose it again so if I can get my body back be healthy train which I need to be better at doing that

SPEAKER_01: 57:26

no no

SPEAKER_00: 57:28

um then I can amazing get myself to where I want to be to prepare for another baby yeah and yeah I just decided that I'd put it we'd put her on goat smoke formula which she's reacting really well too yeah and yeah that's why we decided to but I feel like we bonded like bottle feeding because she can look at me yeah she looks at me and i feed her in front of me on my legs and we just and she holds my hands and

SPEAKER_01: 57:57

dean can do it i think there's benefits to every type of feeding breastfeeding bottle feeding there's advantages

SPEAKER_00: 58:05

yeah and they have a special bond to

SPEAKER_01: 58:07

finding what works for

SPEAKER_00: 58:08

you yeah yeah so yeah i don't know i just think if i was to go back again i don't even know if i would breastfeed straight off the bat Yeah. Like, yeah, I don't know. But it was very convenient. Yeah. And it was, I guess, people do judge, though, when you're out and you pull out your boob. Like, Dean was always like, oh, here, do you want to wrap? And I'll put it over you. In the end, I was like, no, I really don't want to wrap. Yeah. I don't care who can see me because I'm feeding my baby. Yeah. Like, I'm respectful. I have my shirt there. Yeah. Don't go shirtless or braless. Yeah, and there's boobs flopping out. Yeah, and I'm sick of collars. constantly like drenching my breast pads

SPEAKER_01: 58:52

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 58:54

and i was sick of wearing them and having to when you already had like quite a bit of time with breast milk experience breast milking for a while so yeah but yeah i don't know the whole experience i look back now and i'm like you know i was like how did i cope like how was i like i was working thankfully dean allowed me to go part time at work but I was like how did I show up to work and do all of that like every month go in to get scans get on the medications like it was shit yeah

SPEAKER_01: 59:33

yeah I can imagine so

SPEAKER_00: 59:36

yeah but we're here now we have Elena but I know that like Dr. Astle he would talk at seminars he would meet with all like the board of doctors and specialists and he'd tell them about my case and why like how was i losing all these babies no one could give answers

SPEAKER_01: 59:57

yeah okay

SPEAKER_00: 59:58

no one they could only bring it down to my two uteruses

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:02

yeah and the wall

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:03

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:04

yeah amazing

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:06

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:10

um amazing thank you so much for sharing that it was just truly mind-blowing i think i just even though it's one in 2000 you're the first person that I've knowingly met but I am going to start doing this with all of my podcast guests so if you plan on coming on then you can look forward to this question what would be your biggest takeaway or lesson or if you had to go through the last 11 years

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:37

or 15 however many years again what would you tell yourself live your life do not put everything on hold because say you're trying for a baby just go out and live it go and do things like i didn't want a career because i wanted to be a stay-at-home mom

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:56

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:57

and i was so focused on trying to get there but i just wish that in my whole 20s especially

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:02

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:03

i lived my life i went and did stuff i tried harder at doing things

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:08

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:08

i didn't put everything on hold which is what i did up until last year yeah and then that's when i finally just let go yeah and that's when i happened and that's what happened and they always say when you stop stressing yeah I always thought that's such a cop-out answer but it's kind of you it's for me yeah just live my life yeah do things that you want to do yeah like I wouldn't go places because I was like oh no I've got I need to I don't know I guess not be in a good headspace because I can't go and have fun because if I have fun I'm not thinking about you don't have the mental capacity yeah the mental time to add it anything else into your life because it's 100

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:49

dedicated to making a baby

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:51

yeah it literally was yeah everything i did was oh i'm not gonna feel pregnant now

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:58

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:59

like just can't live your life don't wait for it like wait for it i guess to come to you don't chase it as hard i don't know it's really hard to say that because when you want something so much you're gonna chase after it yeah but i

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:14

i think that's really good advice but i it is i've been in not with pregnancy, but in a position where I desperately wanted something and put everything onto that. And then I would get angry and frustrated and so upset that it wasn't coming to

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:27

fruition. You wouldn't do things. Yeah. But just live your life. Yay. Do things you want to do. That is perfect. Well, thank you. And we are at the end. It's okay. Thank you for having me. You're welcome.