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The unCommon Exposè
Self Worth & Love
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TRIGGER WARNING: This episode discusses childhood trauma, domestic violence & mental illnesses.
Join Tammin as we explore her experience with self worth, love and sabotaging behaviours that stem from childhood beliefs.
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Welcome to the Uncommon Expose, where I want to change your life by sharing someone else's. If you've got an open mind, then please join me and my guests as we share their incredible, inspiring, true stories. Trigger warning. This episode discusses childhood trauma, domestic violence and mental illnesses. If you might find any of these things triggering, please do not listen. If you do listen, please be sure to follow us on social media at UncommonX. Perfect. You ready? No. No, you will be. This will be good. This will be good. All right. Welcome to the Uncommon Exposé. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story. This is probably, I think, the first episode or you're the first guest that I've had on who's going to discuss something that I also experienced. So this will be, I think, interesting for us both anyway. Look, I'm getting warm already. So I'll get you to introduce yourself, what your story is about, and then we'll just crack straight on in.
SPEAKER_01Yep. My name's Tamin. I am 24, and I'm going to talk about my separation anxiety as a child and I guess how that's sort of affected me going into adulthood as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. Let's do this. All right. So let's start with when you were young. What's your family dynamic?
SPEAKER_01So mum had me when she was 16. That's
SPEAKER_00young.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That is young. Can you imagine yourself with a 16-year-old?
SPEAKER_01No way. Not at all. No, she fell pregnant when she was 15. I can't imagine myself at 15 having a child. So props to mum. But it was just us two for a long time until I was about six. She We met my sister's dad. We moved to Brisbane. We're originally from up north. It first started happening when I was in year two, so I was seven. Mornings just became really difficult. Yeah. Yeah, just a lot of screaming, crying, not wanting to go to school, things like that. Yeah, and it just kind of skyrocketed. Yeah, wow. Yeah. I guess, yeah, looking back, like I was an only child until I was seven as well. So it was just me and mum. And then we've got this new person in. We've just moved five hours away from where we were
SPEAKER_00living. Do you have family where you're from originally, grandparents? Yeah,
SPEAKER_01cousins, everything. They're all up
SPEAKER_00there.
SPEAKER_01So
SPEAKER_00that's a huge loss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I actually can remember I was in year one. My nan came to pick me up from school and she just said, yeah, like pick me up early and that was it. We were in the car with the trailer on and we moved to Brisbane. Yeah, we had come down for like a week trip before that but it was very sudden. Lots of change very quick. I was almost at the end of year one schooling and there was a bit of depression domestic violence as well in the house with my stepdad. So that definitely, yeah, contributed to it. Towards you or just towards your mum? Both of us. Yeah, mainly mum, but I was kind of... Collateral? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, mornings were super hard. We had to put in a system in place at school, safe people, rooms to go into just to have a tantrum and lash out. Oh, wow. I think... I had a lot of emotions and I didn't really know how to process that. And being away from mum was like, I'm going to die without my mum. That's how it felt. Oh, my God. Yeah, we've always been super... We've had a pretty, I guess, unhealthy mother and daughter relationship and trauma bonding through that time as well. I
SPEAKER_00guess it's a child with a child. And that's not a reflection on anyone who has children young. Yeah. The frontal lobes not fully developed. So she probably, you would have been a little besties.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we still are. We still are. We are best friends. There was like... And yeah, there's no, I guess, mother and daughter. Like my mum is my best friend and I love her for that. But I think as a child, it's more like that super...
SPEAKER_00Codependency.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I can remember like there's a lot of stories that I could probably share today about that. But looking back, it was more so because of the situations circumstances with my stepdad as well it was more so like if mum drops me to school I might never see her again um okay being being without her um yeah it was just such an unsafe feeling being away from my mum
SPEAKER_00yeah yeah oh that breaks my heart you just you are like having children and obviously having a mum I understand and having separation anxiety mum was this a baby though so I find that it's interesting that yours developed in childhood
SPEAKER_01it's I've done so much research on it I've seen I first got diagnosed when I was seven I started to see a psychologist he was a bit he was a bit of a weirdo yeah um puppets and all sorts of stuff yeah but I think that's yeah but um yeah I like once I was I guess diagnosed with anxiety at seven years old like they talk about separation anxiety being normal from 10 to 18 months old yeah that's normal yeah um where that first development of your nurturing and you're feeling secure and anxious attachment avoiding attachment that's where all of those things are formed within that those first you know a couple of years of your life so it is I guess it is a bit odd and maybe a bit I guess circumstantial from you know the family dynamic and things going on that had a major major play in that
SPEAKER_00yeah do you remember you said that you had to have a safe room because of behaviors
SPEAKER_01yeah I would lash out, physical tantrums, hurting myself, other people. I had a teacher aide like designated for me. In the mornings, mum would drop me off to her and her name is Rachel. If Rachel wasn't at school, it was the end of the world. If we had a relief teacher, end of the world because it was something that wasn't consistent, wasn't the routine, didn't feel safe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Are your two diagnosed Well, anxiety and the byproduct separation anxiety. Did you get any other diagnoses then?
SPEAKER_01Later on,
SPEAKER_00yeah. Later
SPEAKER_01on, ODD, which is oppositional defiance disorder, and then depression and all sorts of things came after that. I've never been formally diagnosed with ADHD or anything like that, but the traits are very prominent, especially with not being able to regulate emotions and the... violent outlashes from that
SPEAKER_00yeah do you remember if those things happened when you were younger before the age of seven or just it kind of all just kicked off at seven
SPEAKER_01definitely before that yeah I was pretty like as a teenager I was fine as a teenager my mum was blessed with me as a teenager but before teen years I was a terror yeah before seven yeah lots of violent outlashes it's crazy to think about but I would break out of my car seat as a three, four-year-old and strangle my mum while she was driving, throw shoes at the rearview mirror. Yeah, I was pretty, hearing stories and things about that from me as a small child is pretty confronting sometimes. Yeah. And I've met you a
SPEAKER_00few times before today. Yeah. You're very relaxed, quiet, like, I want to use the word gentle as a person, just the way that you carry yourself. Thank you. You're very, like, well, spoken but you seem to have the time to listen to other people as well so to me like you've obviously developed or changed and used a lot of tools over the last however many years to get to where you are now
SPEAKER_01I would hope so yeah there's definitely times um you know where it does become hard to to regulate emotions and I think that um stems from that anxious attachment yeah um it comes to people pleasing and all sorts of other things and pushing your own emotional needs aside because of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So you said that having that as a child has now impacted, I guess, adulthood, obviously, but relationships. Yeah, definitely. How so? I
SPEAKER_01think it's more than just clinginess, but it's definitely becoming overly attached and codependent on my partner. Yeah. So I think it's branching away more from mum being my safe person and safe person that comes into my life I'm over reliant on them I there I was reading this thing the other night that said when you like have anxiety separation anxiety and it and it forms that anxious attachment behaviors that your reactions and I guess happiness depends on the people around you's receptiveness to that so picking up on the smallest little things like oh if my partner doesn't text me when he usually texts me or things like that. It's a blow up. He doesn't love me. He doesn't care about me. And I think that stems from like inconsistencies as a child as well. Yeah. Having those outlashes, you know, no one wants to be around someone who's kicking, screaming and punching. So having that, doing that because you want to feel loved but then not being loved because of that is really hard as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. yeah I really I can understand I've had lots of made some lots of choices to be loved and then you're right it just it it has the counter effect that we double-edged sword so how I guess how have you felt what tools have you used to go from where you were to where you are now
SPEAKER_01over the years I have seen that many psychologists um i've been on medication antidepressants um i feel like it gets better for a bit um you know all the self-help books and the workbooks and trying to understand especially i guess the deep-rooted trauma as a child and why your brain works like that and um really just trying to unpack it i feel like i'm super self-aware um and i guess well informed about why my brain works the way it does um but it's still something I definitely really struggle with um trying to rethink patterns yeah identity yeah for sure um self-esteem all of that yeah
SPEAKER_00yeah I have learned this um within the last few years but it's something that I found very interesting um self-worth comes from having a father figure um did not have that having a prominent father figure and then I guess the first father figure that you knew was abusive yeah um so and I can attest that this is true for me and if someone's listening to this and they grew up without a father figure but they don't struggle with self-worth and it's also people who have a father figure but that's not involved
SPEAKER_01yeah
SPEAKER_00um you question consistently through your whole life you feel unworthy
SPEAKER_01yeah
SPEAKER_00every everything that you do is never going to feel like it's enough for someone to love you.
SPEAKER_01um i always i'm always constantly reading on these things and um on that note um you know one person that's supposed to love you unconditionally can't can't do that so it definitely makes you makes you question everything and it just it sort of might not be made aware of at first but it's definitely underlying in in a lot of factors of how we behave and how we develop as we're growing up yeah
SPEAKER_00have you reached out? Do you have a relationship with your biological donor?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. We say sperm donor, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Have you had any interaction with them ever?
SPEAKER_01No, no. I've seen him once at my uncle's funeral 11 years ago, but I wasn't allowed to look at him due to my stepfather. Yeah, so he was actually really good friends with my uncle that passed away. That's how my mum met him. And I wasn't allowed to look at him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, yuck. Yuck because of like, oh, yuck, I'm in. Yeah. Sorry, that's like off topic but not off brand here. So do you see your stepfather?
SPEAKER_01No, not anymore. We got out of that situation when I was in year 12. Jesus, that's a long time. So 10 years of that and it started off just little stuff and then it escalated, you know, emotional, financial, physical, all that stuff. Yeah, I guess for me as well, I'm not too sure if other people with separation anxiety as a child also experience the violent, I guess, you know, when you can't express yourself and you want something really bad, like your mum or your safe person, and the only way you know to get rid of these emotions is to jump around and scream and kick and cry, like, but I don't know. You know, watching that as the way that adults communicate as well growing up, I don't know. Well, it definitely does play a part in it. But, you know, if I'm watching an adult who's supposed to know how to regulate their emotions, kick and scream and carry on, of course I'm going to do it as a child and then trying to break that now, even with my partner now. You know, if I'm getting super overwhelmed in a situation, I 100% have kicked and screamed and, yeah, So it's about breaking the cycle as well.
SPEAKER_00How's your partner now? What's that relationship like? It's all right. I know that you have other things going on outside of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a lot more other things. And that definitely does contribute to the anxiety as well. I almost, I guess, now have that separation anxiety from him instead of my mum. I fret without him.
SPEAKER_00Have you had a serious relationship before this partner?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I did. um for about three years um and things were okay but this is my first relationship where I've been living full-time with my partner um and I guess early on in our relationship we've experienced a lot more than I think some couples experience in their lifetime um my partner was diagnosed with leukemia six months into our relationship um so yeah that's been a bit full-on um He has now gone back to full-time work, which is amazing. I'm so, so, so proud of him. But it's definitely affected us because I'm so used to... being the carer, doing things for him. And not that he expects any of that. He didn't expect or want any of that, but that was just what I felt. You know, that's my duty as a partner, to care for my partner. And now he's at work and he does night shift. So being at home by myself, it's creating this... And also, like, is he safe? Is something going to happen to him? I guess the same sort of what I experienced with mum when I was at school. Going back to the school days, though, you know, it was usually just that first hour in the morning after the cry, the tantrum. I was fine at school. I had a great time at school. I loved being at school, safe. School was also my safe place to escape what was going on at home. So it's kind of weird for me to look at that, that I didn't want to go to school, but it was more so I just didn't want to be away from mum. As I got older, it then stemmed to, you know, when you get a little bit more responsibilities, mum says, hey, here's five bucks. Can you go to the IGA and get a bottle of milk for me? That was like the end of the world. I can't go anywhere by myself. I need my mum with me. Yeah, I guess I didn't really have any independence or anything like that. I always just wanted to be with my mum. My mum was my safe person. Any separation from her felt... Life-threatening, I guess, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I can imagine. What about when she picked you up from school?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it wasn't like a, oh, my God, I missed you so much moment. It was just kind of like, okay, cool, you picked me up. You're here. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did you have anxiety about going back to the house, though?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes, yeah. He did work away quite a lot, so I found that when he was working away, you know, two weeks, sometimes a month at a time, Things were pretty good and then when he got home, I guess that's when it flared up again. There was one stage, I was in year six, I was 11 years old and... He had just come back from overseas working. Things were pretty intense at home. And I was having one of my little moments in the morning, went to this little – it was the green room at school. No one really used it. It was just full of big cushions and it was just go in, scream into the pillow until you're ready to come out. And I actually had a teacher aide that was – I guess like bitching about me you know I'm 11 I'm going through a lot and she was like oh my gosh how ridiculous sort of thing and then it just flipped a switch I wasn't upset about mum anymore this woman I had it out for her yeah they took me up to the office and I broke blinds in the office I bent metal door frames like this one in the library here bent the metal door frames they ended up calling the police on me and I got police escort as an 11-year-old in an ambulance to the mental health unit at the hospital where they determined everything's fine. She's just full of anxiety. She's just, yeah. So it's kind of ridiculous looking back that it stemmed to that point, but I can remember it's like a blackout. I can remember getting really upset and then all of a sudden I'm on the way to calming And, you know, my teacher, Rachel, that I spoke about before, she had a broken watch, you know, because I had clawed onto her and broken her watch clasp and things like that. And I would just get this immense guilt afterwards as well. I don't... Like, I don't remember it happening, but I do, but it seems like a blur. My mum's now a teacher aide and she's now a safe person for children with separation anxiety at her school that she works out. And I guess her being on the opposite side of it, she knows how hard it is for the mums to leave them at school. And she used to sit in the car park and cry for an hour because she didn't want to leave me at school also, especially while so distraught, you know, having your baby upset. You don't want to... Leave them when you know you can comfort them. But now she gets to be that safe person and help other children make that transition into school when they've also got other things going on in their life as well.
UNKNOWNYeah.
SPEAKER_00That's really nice though, full circle.
SPEAKER_01Very full circle. A lot of the kids that she's working with, she looks and she goes, wow, it's exactly how you were when you were younger and I can understand now why you – were the way that you were. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Does that feel validating?
SPEAKER_01For sure, yeah. I can remember being in high school and I wrote a note and went into all the ladies in the office that had been at the school that I went to for, you know, since opening year and I've apologised to all of them because I just felt like, and they didn't hold that against me. But it just felt like it was something I had to do, yeah.
SPEAKER_00How old were you when you did that?
SPEAKER_01Probably
SPEAKER_00about 15. Oh, sweet girl. Oh, my heartbreak. Breaks for you. Oh, I'm going to cry. Of course I didn't hold it against you. Oh, sweet angel. I
SPEAKER_01guess it's still hard. Now, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing, you know, being that kid that's always crying, being that kid that had a – not that it's embarrassing to have a support person at school but – When you're different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah,
SPEAKER_01definitely.
SPEAKER_00We want to be the same when we're children.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. You know, up until like a few years ago and I'd still meet up with people that I went to primary school and things with and they're like, oh, like, were you okay? I just remember you always outside the classroom crying you were always with you know teacher aides and it got to the point even specialist lessons like music PE I would freak out because it wasn't you know you're not doing that every day it's like a once a week thing so it just felt out of routine and I didn't like it at all then I clung to my classroom teacher and that was I was a little teacher's pet sort of thing because that was my safe person at school and it was consistent yeah but definitely carry a lot of guilt I shouldn't but guilt and shame I think is a lot a lot to do with it as well especially looking back trying to I guess understand why why I felt like that um how I can overcome that and so that also doesn't affect me um as an adult yeah
SPEAKER_00guilt and shame I think that like you just nailed it yeah just those those two emotions I feel like they're so soul-destroying over things. Like you tell me these stories and I just feel for you. Yeah. And I don't judge you and I don't, like, even when you tell me those stories, I'm like, that's really sad for you, I'm sorry, like, that you felt that way. But when you're internalising the shame and the judgement and...
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's actually why I really like what you're doing with your podcast as well is you're allowing a safe space for people to talk about these things and talking about it relieves some of that guilt and shame. Yeah, absolutely. Especially when you hear people that have had similar experiences and absolutely yeah you're oh
SPEAKER_00you sweet sweet girl just on my heart for you um Okay, we just took a little break, but let's talk about what you were just saying then. As a child, well, sorry, I should say as a teenager, you said that you were, I'm going to use the word regulated, but then you've just gone to express it far better. Thank you. I
SPEAKER_01think as I went into adolescence, it was more so withdrawing. I had all of that anxiety and a lot of home stuff that the domestic violence got worse and things as I got older. And I would just isolate. I would just be in my room all the time. Didn't want to come out, things like that. School was easier. I loved going to school. Didn't have that. Sometimes I'd cry in the morning, but it was like, you know, suck up the tears and keep going. Yeah, it wasn't so much as... Because you could escape the house? Yeah, for sure. I think, I don't know, that fear of... I'm going to go to school. Mum's not going to pick me up. Kind of got less and less. Even though the abuse at home got worse, it was just more so I'm just going to detach and I'm just going to withdraw from the whole situation. Yeah. Did your friends at school? Yeah. Yeah. I had like a good couple of friends, but then I kind of floated. Like I was kind of okay with like heaps of different groups at school. I flew under the radar, had really good grades. Teachers didn't pick up on it. I actually did a – we were doing like a TED Talk segment in year 10 English. I had the same English teacher from year 8 all the way through to year 12. He pretty much, I guess, saved me in that sense. He was a really good – shout out, Mr Maynard. You can tag him. Yeah. He was a really good positive. male role model in my life. And he saw who I was apart from this front. I think masking is super – I don't even know what the word is, but I feel like masking your emotions and you put on this happy face. Yeah, I feel like he saw straight through me. In a good way though. Yeah, in a good way. He, you know, like – A lot of kids that have separation anxiety or trauma and things at home, if their grades are good, they just go under the radar because your cognitive development is usually the first thing that goes. Your grades start slipping. You don't have any social cues and things like that. But I was socially apt. I was fine. I had friends. My grades were good. I had no reason for teachers to flag me an ask if anything was wrong at home or if I was okay um year 10 we you know speeches in front of the class were like everyone's looking at me I'm so vulnerable I think everyone can relate to that um but I would do my um speeches um in the office at lunchtime um with like one or two friends yeah um but this TED talk I was determined I'm going to talk about my struggle with anxiety um in general um and yeah I did a little TED talk on it I got up in front of the class. My class was pretty much all the same kids from year eight onwards. We were in like an excellence program. So it was just all the smart kids basically in one class. So we moved up all together as well. I got up, I got to the first slideshow, didn't even finish my introduction, walked out of the classroom crying. Everyone carried on. Everyone was really good, but they just carried on with speeches. And then I looked at my teacher, said, yeah, I'm going to do it. So I I pushed it into the next person and did my speech. I cried the whole time. My classmates were crying because I feel like a lot of them understood as well. You know, sometimes the smart kids are most of the time riddled with the most anxiety. They're not the most confident. They're not the most, I guess, secure in that sense. Probably being bullied quite a lot as well. My teacher was crying. Everyone came up to me afterwards and said wow like you're amazing basically you're so brave for speaking about that um there's this one um poem that I reread I have it tattooed on me as well um I reread it in my in my speech my psychologist when I was 11 um showed it to me it's an old Cherokee tale I can never say it right um but it's this it's It's this old Native American folktale, I guess, of this grandpa talking to his grandson saying, there's a battle between us, between two wolves. One wolf is good, it's love, it's hope, and the other wolf is greed, it's shame, it's guilt, it's everything, I guess, the good and evil. And the grandson says to him, you know, but which wolf will win? And he says, the wolf you feed. I think that's a pretty common one that a few people have heard of but that really stuck with me um and I reread some of that and had it up on the screen as well and um I think that really stuck with a lot of my classmates too um but yeah this teacher he just took a he took a special I guess interest in me to you know help me on my way he helped me graduate I wouldn't have graduated high school if it wasn't for him yeah especially during that transition um from leaving that abusive in the midst of year 12 exams and things. Going to formal school helped me go to formal and things because we couldn't afford much when we left. It was just pack your bags and go sort of thing. But yeah, I definitely had those few... I don't even know where this is going, where the story was coming to an end, but I had a really good positive male figure during school that helped me through and I think that's why going to school wasn't as...
UNKNOWNyou
SPEAKER_01big of a deal anymore. It was such a safe place for me to go to because I knew I had all the support I could possibly need there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the other thing that you mentioned just before was insecure attachment style. Is that the one that you've been reading about? Yeah,
SPEAKER_01anxious attachment.
SPEAKER_00Anxious, that's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's basically just, yeah, this overwhelming become of anxiety. when you're separated or the second thoughts or the quick to judge sort of thing. And I think that was formed before my separation anxiety, just being me and mum for six years of my life. And then when the abuse and things started happening, becoming more attached to mum and being in this constant anxious state, not feeling safe then that's then formed as like as soon as um I'm trying to think of an example. Like as soon as something small happens, it's automatically worst case scenario because I'm in that anxious – without being anxious, I'm already in an anxious state. I'm already heightened. So as soon as one little minuscule thing goes wrong, it's the end of the world and I think everyone's going to leave me or everyone's going to hurt me or, you know, I'm trying to think of the words to describe
SPEAKER_00it. No, I think – I think that that's really good because it's catastrophic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's something that might seem so small. For example, like my partner's the complete opposite. He's had his own hurdles and things that he's had to overcome, especially in his childhood. But he's lent more towards the avoidant attachment style. So he shuts off. Whereas I'm this anxious, the constant need for reassurance and validation. Yes, you love me. Yes, you want to be with me. Because I guess as a child, having my stepfather, he loves me so much in front of everyone else. But as soon as we're at home, I'm the problem. I'm a burden. I'm not good enough. You know, just constantly trying to one-up yourself to be better, to be loved, to be accepted. I'm still trying to do that as an adult. I think that's something that I definitely need to work on. to sit back and go oh he's busy or he's gonna text me when he gets to work or something hey sorry I didn't see you or things like that it's just it's automatically the end of the world it blows up so and it feels so sinister when it's just a it's just something or if we have an argument or a disagreement on something he's like yeah whatever like that's it it's done whereas I'm like we need to unpack this and I feel like this because X xyz um i think stemming on that though um what i was reading also with the anxious attachment like need for constant validation is over seeking validation to the point that it pushes the person that you care about that you're wanting the validation from away yeah because you're bugging them all the time asking them to remind you that they care about you and that they want to be around you but in reality they wouldn't be around you if they didn't want to um But the constant need to seek validation is pretty – it feels so important to me. Yeah. I think because of how I grew up and that anxiety. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that we just discussed this when I paused before because I don't ever want to make these recordings about me, but you and I have very similar experiences. When you have that attachment style, it doesn't matter what they say, what they do, however they show up, if they give you every single answer in the world, it's never enough until you do that internal work. Yeah, definitely. And you find that validation and that self-worth. Yeah. Yeah. In yourself. And that's hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I like... Getting a bit personal, I think, but a bit more personal. But like my partner said to me the other day, he feels like he will never be good enough to satisfy my needs. And that really hurts because I don't want him to feel like that. And I guess then the guilt and the shame with why do I need so much validation? Why am I pestering him all the time to do these little things that that might seem so miniscule. It's almost self-sabotaging my relationship. Yeah. Just because of how my brain works.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. Self-sabotaging because then self-fulfilling prophecy. If we sabotage it and they leave because I knew it. Yeah. I knew I wasn't enough. I knew you didn't love me. I knew this. I was right the whole time. It's almost preparing yourself. for the worst
SPEAKER_01case scenario, but you're making that worst case come true. Yeah. Creating problems when there never was a problem. Yeah. Just because I, yeah, I'm overthinking things and I'm triggered by the smallest things that I should not be triggered about, but I am, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I feel that. Yeah. I feel that in my heart. Yeah. I might just have a drink first. Yeah, go for it. Amazing. Thank you for just having so much emotion and being able to convey exactly how these things, even as a child, as we discussed, our children can't always convey how they feel in those moments. But you've been able to shine such a light on probably how they're feeling, what they're going through, what their thought process is, which I think is going to be so beneficial. And a child – A mother might have a child who's not exactly the same as you were, but just being able to highlight those emotions gives us that little bit of a barrier. They're not just being naughty or they're not being X, Y, Z, but take that breath for them. I love to finish these episodes with a little bit of advice. So what you would either say to younger you or teen you or even you five minutes ago or someone who might be going through a similar situation and for you it might be a parent who has a child who has these behaviours or someone else. So what advice would you like to share? I
SPEAKER_01think definitely maybe some advice for parents that have children that might just be having an outburst or crying in the morning when they're leaving for school. I think it's not so much about them being naughty and having a tantrum or just being a sook, being sooky and not wanting to leave mum. I think there's definitely... something else under there. I think some advice would be be patient, try and listen to what the child actually needs because sometimes being too overbearing as well can cause more harm than good. But just letting kids be kids and have their own independence as well, I think that's very important. formative for as they get older and nurturing but not over nurturing and just being consistent because it's it's definitely gonna have an effect as they get older and contributes to yeah your relationships as you get older as well so I think just having that being consistent yeah and just trying to trying to really just listen to what your child needs you know kids don't really understand how how to approach those emotions so when they are getting angry or things, it might not be just because they're being angry, there's something else under there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you.