LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Preserving Sacred Text with The Book of Mormon Census: Robert Messick's Story - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley

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When a simple curiosity of well-worn scripture leads to a full-fledged passion, can the pages of history strengthen our faith even more?

For family man and dedicated Book of Mormon collector, Robert Messick, the answer is a resounding YES! In this fascinating episode of Latter-day Lights, Robert takes us on a journey through centuries of rare and unique Book of Mormon editions—from early RLDS printings and first-edition 1830 copies, to a near-mythical Deseret Alphabet copy with only 500 ever produced. Robert reveals how these volumes aren’t just prized collectibles—they’re precious links to the faith, sacrifices, and testimonies of the Saints who came before us.

Building on his passion for preserving these sacred artifacts, Robert also introduces The Book of Mormon Census Project, an ambitious effort to track and protect these treasured books worldwide.

Robert’s testimony shines as a gentle reminder that the Book of Mormon remains a living, unifying force—no matter its publication date, material, or design. Whether you’re a history buff, a collector at heart, or simply seeking spiritual uplift, you’ll find inspiration in Robert’s stories of faith, family, and the timeless power of scripture.

*** Please SHARE Robert's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/g9asiuaih3k

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To FOLLOW Robert's YouTube channel, visit: https://www.youtube.com/@bookofmormoneditions

To FOLLOW The Book Of Mormon Census Project, visit: https://bookofmormoncensus.com/

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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

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Scott Brandley:

Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley:

And I'm Alisha Coakley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley:

On today's episode we're going to hear how one avid collector of the Book of Mormon has witnessed that the words written in each copy can draw a reader closer to the Lord. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today. We have a really special treat for you our special guest, robert Messick. Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert Messick:

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be with you guys. Thank you.

Alisha Coakley:

We're excited too. Scott and I's inner nerds are like I love it. We love church, we love the gospel, we love history, we love talking. It's just like a perfect combination of everything today. So this is going to be a little bit different of an interview. We love talking. It's just like a perfect combination of everything today.

Scott Brandley:

So, uh, so this is gonna be a little bit.

Alisha Coakley:

A little bit different of an interview. We're gonna be a little more interview style, asking some questions and stuff like that. But I'm sure you've got some good bits and pieces of stories to to share with us. So we're we're excited yeah, yeah.

Scott Brandley:

So, um, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, robert?

Robert Messick:

Well, my name is Robert Messick and I hail from Arizona. I'm actually a normal family man and I'm pretty normal in terms of like taking kids to school and working a normal job and things like that. But I guess the claim to fame is I am an avid collector of various copies of the Book of Mormon and so I love the physical copy of the Book of Mormon and kind of seeing some historical details of it and I'm excited to talk about that. But, like other than that, I'm a pretty normal average guy and it's been fun this journey going through being a collector and trying to juggle responsibilities of being dad and home creator and everything else Awesome.

Alisha Coakley:

And we're going to get to see some of these copies right today.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, I'm excited that I've got some show and tell for you as well.

Scott Brandley:

Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your family.

Robert Messick:

Family of four, my daughter and I. Actually interesting, my daughter and I. She graduated last year from high school and we actually participated in the Mesa Easter pageant a year ago and so if you have folks forever in Arizona or ever traveled to Arizona around Easter time the Mesa Easter pageant I'll give a huge plug for it, a great testimony builder. It really impacted my daughter. She said, yeah, dad, I want to get my patriarchal blessing and and all these things, and it was like a great light that flicked on for her. Yeah, and I've got three other boys, three younger boys as well.

Alisha Coakley:

So what are? What's the age?

Robert Messick:

ranges Eight years old to 14. And then my daughter's 18. Gotcha, so you're in it, yeah, and so it's been kind of interesting trying to juggle, you know, my projects and my various activities that I want to do, and then the things that I have to do is with my family, and I want to do my family as much, and so it's been kind of just a fun time trying to juggle the thick of being a family man.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah Well, awesome man, robert, we are super excited. I don't collect Book of Mormons, but I've got some really cool artifacts that I've collected over the years too, on this back shelf over here. But maybe I'll bring it up in your show, depending on if it makes sense. But yeah, we're super excited to hear about your stories about collecting Book of Mormons, so why don't you tell us where your story begins?

Robert Messick:

Some of it began with COVID begins, some of it began with COVID. We were all kind of twirling our thumbs in COVID and I was looking for a specific book of Mormon, a 1920 Book of Mormon, and I didn't know what I was exactly looking for as a collector, and so I went to YouTube to try to figure out is there a profile of this? And I realized that no one had actually ever done a YouTube series on various copies of the Book of Mormon, and so I looked at my bookshelf and I said, oh, my goodness, I've got them. I would love to make a kind of a video encyclopedia of this one versus that one and things like that. And so during COVID I started a YouTube channel called Book of Mormon Editions, and you folks can see on YouTube that the Book of Mormon Editions series highlights various copies of the Book of Mormon and goes through the various publication, why they were printed, what's different compared to you know which covers which.

Robert Messick:

And it kind of morphed into understanding that Salt Lake has a large lion's share of printing of the Book of Mormon. But there are other denominations from the secession of when the church history continued onward, that quite a few denominations actually print the Book of Mormon and are great advocates of reading the Book of Mormon as well, advocates of reading the Book of Mormon as well. So, yeah, and so it was a huge eye-opener that knowing that, yeah, community of Christ or, you know, the former reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you know, obviously, we know that, but there's a handful of other denominations that actually print their own copies of the Book of Mormon. And also Salt Lake has been really interesting in terms of seeing how Salt Lake, over time, has updated their text or updated their covers and various things like that. So it kind of just morphed into a YouTube series regarding all things of the printing of the Book of Mormon.

Robert Messick:

So I'll make a pitch to say, look at Book of Mormon editions on YouTube to kind of see the various ones. Say, look at Book of Mormon editions on YouTube to kind of see the various ones. But I'm going to give you a little teaser, if you will. For example, like this one is the current Salt Lake edition of the Book of Mormon, and what's interesting is this copy has been in print since 2013. In 2013, they did a copyright change or a copyright renewal, and what happened is this was the previous one, and I'm not sure if you can see it on the cover, but if you look, there's two titles and the subtitle has another testament of Jesus Christ. What happened is this one changed the word of to the top and you have just Jesus Christ on the bottom.

Robert Messick:

So this is the 2013 copy and the one previously had another testament of Jesus Christ.

Alisha Coakley:

It's so interesting it's like a little thing, but as an editor because I do some book editing and stuff on the side that would have driven me nuts to have of in front of Jesus Christ Like I would have done the same change that they did. But I didn't notice it just now when you flashed it too, until you said it I was like oh, and I think it was deliberate.

Robert Messick:

You know, to isolate the words Jesus Christ makes it more important, and rightfully so. If you really focus on Jesus Christ as a savior and the true factor for the Book of Mormon, it makes sense to isolate those words regarding and that happened in 2013. So if you look on your bookshelves, if you have one or the other, you can see which ones there is. So this small one was in 1999.

Alisha Coakley:

And prior to that was a thicker volume.

Robert Messick:

You guys remember this one and it's look basically the same kind of almost similar titling. The font is a little smaller on this one, but this was from 1982 through 1999. What was interesting is they just changed the paper and the paper made all of the difference in terms of the thickness of the volume, and it is the same text of the Book of Mormon, same page layout, same verses per page, same footnotes, from 1982 through 1999. And then in 1999, the smaller volume, and so, as a missionary, I carry this larger volume.

Robert Messick:

And then I'm kind of jealous because the smaller missionaries now carry the smaller volumes of the Book of Mormon Wow. Now carry the smaller volumes of the Book of Mormon Wow. But what's also interesting is not many people realize this, but there's actually two copies of these thicker volumes. The two copies of the thicker volumes actually have something different.

Robert Messick:

Oh yeah, and in 1991, this book, excuse me, 1981, this book came out and it was a new format for the Book of Mormon New verses per page, new chapter layout, I'm sure, a new page layout. And then, one year later, the Quorum of the Twelfth Apostle says, hey, we need a subtitle, and they put the Another Testament of Jesus Christ in 1982 and onward, jesus Christ in 1982 and onward. So, as a book collector, these single volume or these volumes with the single title of 1981, is kind of a collector's item because it was only one year printed for these. So within what 50 years?

Robert Messick:

well, good God, 1981 through 2025 is 40 plus years 44 years, um, you've had four kind of major more four major covers of the Book of Mormon. Um, or kind of size changes because of the paper change, things like that, and everyone says, oh yeah, that that's been there forever, but no slight variances, slight changes have have been made for been made for the covers, even in Salt Lake time.

Alisha Coakley:

Nice, okay. So I have to ask you where did this start? Where did this love for collecting unique Book Mormons start?

Robert Messick:

When I was out of college I was by myself and I had a brand new apartment and I got a bookshelf and the bookshelf one bookshelf was bare and I decided to put a couple of copies of the Book of Mormon on it and I was like, oh, I need to fill this up. So I went to Desert Industries and we found that there's other volumes and I kind of started collecting it. And then when I got married in 2004, President Hinckley announced that the church was going to give the text of the Book of Mormon to an outside printer called Doubleday Printing and they did kind of a gold and white book and it was called the Doubleday Edition of a gold, golden, white book and it was called the Doubleday Edition. And that was kind of the first time that it was a new cover of the Book of Mormon that they were going to give to print for like Barnes and Noble and bookstores, so that it would be less intrusive for people to get a copy of the Book of Mormon without a missionary copy of the Book of Mormon.

Robert Messick:

And so that one actually kind of just woke me up and opened my eyes saying, oh, interesting, a new cover of the Book of Mormon. And so that one actually kind of just woke me up and opened my eyes saying, oh interesting, a new cover of the Book of Mormon or a new edition or a new printing, what's unique about that? And so it kind of morphed into collecting various copies of the Book of Mormon. And then, as soon as I told my friends and family, oh yeah, I'm collecting or I love various copies of the Book of Mormon, you get gifted or you find various copies.

Alisha Coakley:

I should start telling my family that I'm collecting $100 bills, me.

Robert Messick:

version of $100 bills, but one of the ones that was hugely significant is. We all kind of know this cover. In 1961, they printed One of the ones that was hugely significant is we all kind of know this cover yeah.

Robert Messick:

In 1961, they printed this copy of the Book of Mormon and this copy, from 1961 through 1980, was the missionary copy for the Book of Mormon. And what's interesting is, whenever I talk about this, everyone's eyes light up. It says, oh yeah, my parents or my grandma has this copy on my bookshelf and I think you can see right here is a whole bunch of them. And what's really been fun is hearing testimony stories about this copy in various hands and people just light up saying I gained my testimony on this blue cover with Angel Moroni and so, Alisha Scott, have you seen this in your parents' libraries or in your bookshelves ever?

Alisha Coakley:

I recall seeing it somewhere, but it wasn't in my home. But I grew up. My parents weren't really active in church for the majority of my well, for all my childhood, but it does look familiar. Does that version have?

Scott Brandley:

footnotes in it.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, so interesting thing about this 1961, the church was preparing for the World's Fair and the World's Fair was coming into New York City for about two, three years and they did a New York pavilion inside the World's Fair and the church did a staffed. As long as the World's Fair was there they did a staffed pavilion and it was a really amazing building and it had actually the face cover of the Salt Lake Temple was their face of the pavilion and everyone had a chance to. The World's Fair was kind of the who's who of business and society. So like new computers were there, new cars were showcasing their new cars and things like that, and so the church decided to have a pavilion and hundreds of thousands or millions, hundreds of thousands of people went to this World's Fair and so they did a commemorative book and it was so successful that they actually continued it onward for printing in the 1970s, which is also the first time that you have illustrations, and these are the Arnold Freiberg illustrations and the Arnold Freiberg illustrations.

Robert Messick:

There were eight pictures illustrations and these are the arnold freiburg illustrations and the arnold freiburg illustrations. There were eight pictures and arnold freiburg actually did 12, but only eight of them came into the this, this book, and it was the first time that you had illustrations of what book mormon stories might look like. And these arnold freiburg pictures are so amazing or so significant that I had one friend, he went to BYU art school and he said, yeah, these Arnold Freiburg permit pictures are so significant that if you're doing Book of Mormon iconography or like cartoons or imagery, you have to have nephi with headband and a side sash and a bulk, bulk up guy um lehi has to be an old man with a beard and you know kind of various uh pegs and tags of of icons, um, even like living scriptures with the living scripture book of mormon, you know, patterned after the ar Freiberg pictures. And so how interesting the ghost of Arnold Freiberg is still living through imagery of Nephi having to have a headband, things like that.

Scott Brandley:

Well, and they still have those pictures in the current versions, don't they?

Robert Messick:

So yeah, they have changed it a little bit. The current Salt Lake edition has pictures in the front and they've got about three or four or five pictures in the very front of it and then no pictures laced in, if you will.

Scott Brandley:

Right.

Robert Messick:

So we've got a couple of pictures in the front and it's only in the front of the copy.

Scott Brandley:

But is there still some Freiburg pictures in there? Yeah, yeah.

Robert Messick:

So they added this is interesting, the picture of Moroni praying on the golden plates with the forest in the background. That actually wasn't an honorable Freiburg picture, it was a Tom Lovell Tom Lovell picture. It was a tom level tom level um. And interesting that there's there's other pictures than freiburg um in the in the new volume as well. Right um picture of jesus in the americas is a non-freiburg picture as well.

Robert Messick:

So that's all, yeah, so um with that. It's kind of interesting because, going backwards when we mentioned this one, this one was a softcover printing, and what was interesting is I never knew this but soft hard cover and you had hard stitching and and binding of a hard cover of a Book of Mormon, and prior to that or after that, then you had soft cover printing. And what would soft cover do is you'd actually cut the pages prior and glue the cover on, and so your soft cover would be actually a glue strip on the spine and then, um, then cut around so that you'd create your book of mormon and you'd have a softer cover, and so no more stitching on the spine or no more stitching on the collating, um with that.

Alisha Coakley:

so is that like? I mean, I'm assuming it was probably just more cost efficient, right like they could produce more for less. Yeah, it was new technology, um cost efficient, right Like they could produce more for less.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, it was new technology. They didn't have to take time to stitch. What you'd do is you'd have large pieces of paper and you'd fold it and fold it, and fold it and you'd have like a pamphlet, and you'd have multiple pamphlets. Then you'd stick together and stitch them together and then put the cover around it and you didn't have to do that anymore other and then put the cover around it and you didn't have to do that anymore. And so really, after the 1950s and onward, you had a mass explosion of printing of the Book of Mormon. And so by the 1970s, this blue one was printed in the millions because new technology was faster and Salt Lake did a wonderful job in terms of flooding the earth with the Book of Mormon of that time. And Salt Lake did a wonderful job in terms of flooding the earth with the Book of Mormon of that time.

Robert Messick:

So prior to that, what's interesting is this volume of the Book of Mormon was actually formatted in 1920.

Robert Messick:

And so from 1920 and onward, what's interesting is, prior to 1920, the verses were in single columns and 1920 was the first time it was actually in double columns. So we've only had double column verses since 1920. And interesting church history-wise is that 1878 to 1879, orson Pratt in Utah changed the versification of the Book of Mormon. The original Book of Mormon really was in large chapters and large paragraphs and the paragraphs would be numbered in the 1850s and Orson Pratt knew that if you wanted to have reference ability or as well ability to quote things, you needed smaller phrases. And so in 1879, the versification was changed into what we have now. So Salt Lake text has been since 1879. What's also interesting is if you pull up a reorganized, an RLDS version of the Book of Mormon, they didn't copy the Salt Lake versing and so they actually versified based upon every sentence and so your chapter and versing is different on a Salt Lake book versus a Community of Christ Book of Mormon.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, Wow, I never thought about that before. I guess I just always imagined the way that it was written was the way that we read it. But that wouldn't be normal. I mean, that's not normal, right, like that's. Obviously people had to put it into smaller chunks.

Scott Brandley:

Have you collected some of these books, bookmarks from other churches?

Robert Messick:

of these books book mormons from other churches. Yeah, I don't have it actually at my fingertips right now, but you can see on my back and um on the youtube channel. We actually do, um do reviews of various printings of the book of mormon. Um, significantly, the rlds, or community of christ, they've updated their printings or their formats a couple of times night. Oh, church history wise, it was interesting.

Robert Messick:

Um, the original book of mormon was um handwritten onto what was called the original manuscript and then the original manuscript was then handwritten again to a printer's manuscript, was given and was given to the printer. The printer's manuscript was given to the printer. The printer's manuscript was given and kept with Oliver Cowdery when he left the church, and the printer's manuscript was with the Whitmer family for a long time and it was not in Salt Lake, and the RLDS Church obtained it in 1903. And so, from 1903, the RLDS Church had the printer's manuscript and used that as a base for their printing of the Book of Mormon from about 1908 and onward. And then recently, in 2017, there was news that the Salt Lake Church had acquired the printer's manuscript from the Community of Christ I think $35 million for the manuscript.

Robert Messick:

And so so real, interesting story that it's been preserved and um that the community of christ had the printer's manuscript for that long um the other talking point is um, with church history we talk about when joseph smith was was martyred, a lot of people came up and said, hey, we'd like to you know who's going to lead the church.

Robert Messick:

And a great movie that came out a couple of months ago was Six Days in August, which was the story of Brigham Young coming back when Joseph Smith passed away and the meeting of the saints with Brigham Young versus Sidney Rigdon, and it kind of put it to light in terms of there was a conundrum on who was going to lead the church and Brigham's claim said that the Quorum of the Twelve now holds all of the keys as compared to just one person, and Sidney Rigdon was not happy about that one person.

Robert Messick:

And Sidney Rigdon was not happy about that and he claimed that he wanted to be the protector of the church and create the legacy for the church going forward, and they had a falling out. Several of the congregations actually did follow Sidney Rigdon and there's quite a few congregations in Pennsylvania that continued onward with Sidney Rigdon's leadership and they've morphed now into what's called the Church of Jesus Christ and they're active and they're fully active in their faith and a lot of the times you'll see that the Church of Jesus Christ is very influential in the restoration, and they have a copy of their book of Mormon as well.

Alisha Coakley:

So I had no idea.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, there's also a lot of splinter organizations or kind of, let's say, break off, because everyone claims their own authority or their own kind of lineage in terms of how they claim autonomy compared to salt lake, and so I I'm not a I'm not a critic of who's who. Obviously I'm a salt lake member, but I certainly respect and acknowledge and so, um, the other another group is, um, there's a group that owned the property in independence missouri that the temple was dedicated on and it's called the Temple Lot and it's just the size of a football field and they have a congregation there and they call themselves the Church of Christ Temple Lot and they have a printing of the Book of Mormon. So it's kind of interesting.

Robert Messick:

One of the takeaways that I have on this is that, even if I'm a Salt Lake member of the church, I can still admire those people who read the Book of Mormon that are not part of Salt Lake. Yeah, or denominations or thought processes where you had a book that created a church, as compared to a church by a leader who writes his stuff and then it's recorded and the book comes later, and so the book actually is just as important as the church itself. And so hearing and seeing that people love reading the Book of Mormon that are outside of Salt Lake is actually very welcoming. That says that the book stands strong even if you're not part of Salt Lake. But there's value and there's spirit to reading the Book of Mormon, no matter where you're from as well.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, I think oftentimes I mean and even remember as a kid thinking, well, if anybody knows the book of mormon's true, then they have to know the whole church is true too. Like it just made sense to me then. But as an adult I'm seeing, like, no, like our testimonies are, it's like lego blocks, right, like we, we each have a little block of a different part of our testimony and they can build together. But sometimes we don't make the connection. And that's okay, you know.

Alisha Coakley:

Know, like if you have a testimony of the book of Mormon but you don't have a testimony of temple work or something like great, hang on to your testimony of the book of Mormon, keep reading that, keep drawing closer to Christ through that. Let that be something that you continually keep in your life for good. And don't worry, heavenly fathers, got you Like he'll, he'll, he'll put things in your path, he'll. And don't worry, heavenly fathers, got you like he'll, he'll, he'll put things in your path. He'll bring you around when you need to be around and whatever else. But that's I just. I never. I mean, I assumed the the rlds would have it. You know, I assumed that. But just hearing that there's, there's even more um, you know. Readers and lovers of the book of mormon who are not associated with mainstream church is really happy. It warms my heart.

Scott Brandley:

Along those lines. I saw a Baptist minister speak at a conference and he was a huge advocate of the Book of Mormon. Yeah, yeah, you just never know.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, a gentleman by the name of Thomas and I forget his last name I'm so embarrassed that I forgot his last name. But good friend of mine, um, and I think his book called is a Baptist preacher, reads the book of Mormon and uh, his presentation is amazing. And yeah, he's like, yeah, I'm, I'm outside of the church but uh, the, the, the book of Mormon, the teaching of the book of Mormon still still applies. So I'll give you another one. What was also interesting, and we're talking about Come Follow Me and we're doing kind of church history, doctrine, covenants, details, and we're talking a lot about the witnesses of the Book of Mormon.

Robert Messick:

We talked about Oliver Cowdery, but the other one that was significant was David Whitmer. And David Whitmer was a wonderful gentleman of the community and very well-liked and, as I mentioned, they had a falling out and stayed in Missouri while the saints moved around and moved to Nauvoo and westward. But David Whitmer always kept his testimony of the Book of Mormon. So much so that, as mentioned, the Whitmer family had the of the Book of Mormon. So much so that, as mentioned, the Whitmer family had the printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon and they had an organization called the Church of Christ and they called themselves the Whitmerites, and the Whitmerites was a congregation of family members of the Whitmers for the late 1800s. And in 1899, they printed one called.

Robert Messick:

It's called the nephite records oh my gosh, and so this printing actually is 1899, so this book is 1899 and they call themselves the nephite records. And what's interesting is they're in richmond missouri, which is outside of independence missouri and in central missouri area, so 1899. They print this and instead of calling it the Book of Mormon they call it the Nephite records. But, as mentioned, we talked that Orson Pratt did the new versification and this versification was Salt Lake versing and so they said well, if you can't beat them, join them. But the Whitmer family was hugely supportive and a big advocate for the Book of Mormon. Their family, most of them in the 1900s, moved to the Temple Lot Church and the Reorganized Church as well. And so interesting, like you have a book called the Nephite Records. Not too many people know about that, but it's really interesting in terms of church history that the Whitmers were very supportive of the Book of Mormon to even print their own copy of the book.

Alisha Coakley:

I have to say I'm like watching you hold this book that's 126 years old in your hand and I'm just thinking, oh my goodness, I would be so scared to touch it. I'm just thinking, oh my goodness, like I would be so scared to touch it. So kind of off of that. Do some of these copies that you have, some of these older copies, do they have to be cared for in a particular way, stored a certain way? How do you make sure that they don't fall apart?

Robert Messick:

That's a super good question, and most of the books in the 1800s are leather bound, and so leather actually does deteriorate, and so you do have to worry and be careful that books are taken care of. What's interesting is that some people say, well, white gloves, you got to do white gloves, and the other people say, no, you don't do white gloves for a couple of reasons. One, the oils in your hand actually is good for leather because it actually absorbs some moisture back into the leather as well. As some people have said, I've seen more accidents with white gloves because they're cumbersome and like page turning and ripping pages and things like that. And so we usually say, if you're keeping a book, just hold it, open it to just the V, like this, and that's just about as long. That's about as open as you want. You never put it flat on the table or, you know, drop it on the table flat. You kind of just cradle it and just you know, little by little, open it just in a V shape, and as long as you do that, it'll last for a long, long time. Just in a V shape, and as long as you do that, it'll last for a long, long time.

Robert Messick:

There are when we talk about really old books and we'll talk about the 1830 as well there is some train of thought that says we want to keep the book as is. And then there's some people that says, well, the book is deteriorating, we want to stop it from deteriorating and we want to preserve it so that actually lasts another hundred, you know, 200 years or 100 years or so, and so it depends on which camp you do. I kind of think of it like if you go to your grandpa's farm and you find an old corvette in his barn. Do you keep the corvette as is or do you kind of, you know, put polish on the leather and try to put oil change and clean up the car? And it just depends on what you want to do. But in general, I think I'm leaning towards cleaning as well as restoring a book as best as you can so that it actually does get preserved. But you're right, don't drop a book and be careful with it when you do.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, I'm in that camp too. I'm all about restoration, preservation, like in the, in the best way possible, where you're still keeping the spirit of it alive, right like the, the feel of it or the look or whatever else. So what about you, scott? Are you would you leave it alone or would you want to restore?

Scott Brandley:

no, I think. I think I would try to restore it, yeah, or would you?

Alisha Coakley:

want to restore it.

Scott Brandley:

No, I think I would try to restore it, yeah, or preserve it as much as I could, I agree, still want to be able to enjoy it.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, exactly.

Robert Messick:

Right, one other one. So we're talking about old ones, and if you see this, 2007, there was a series of book printers that says what would it take to make the 1830 Book of Mormon by hand? And so, if you look at the historical details, they had a press that was a large, kind of put the paper down, press it one at a time, flip it over, press it and then let it dry, create all of that, create 5,000 of these. Now think of it this way in the 1830s, um, 5,000 copies was completely huge, uh, undertaking for a small town book printer. And so, for 5,000 copies, it's a lot of storage to to store all of this. And here's the deal you have to print all of the pages and then you have to collate them, because you can't make a book until all of the pages are printed. And so you print them.

Robert Messick:

And so in 2007, they asked what would it take to take the leather hand, stitch it, make the paper, hand, make the paper and hand press it to make copies. And so this is actually what's called the letter press edition, and the letter press is as close to an 1830 book of mormon. Knew that you could get, and you can see, the 1830 book of mormon had just marbling. It was just beautiful in terms of marbling. Um, it was a lower um quality leather and they did it quickly to make sure that it was done um. And so they don't. The 1830s has challenges surviving, but this 18, this 2007 copy, you can kind of see what an 1830 Book of Mormon would look like, kind of brand new yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

I was going to say it looks in great condition, I mean even for being 2007,. That's, I don't think I have anything that's 20 years old that looks that good.

Robert Messick:

And so, yeah, this thing, you take care of it real nicely, things like that. You can see, one paper is different. What was interesting is to spice up the selling of these particular copies. There's a couple of people that had various loose pages of an 1830 Book of Mormon and they said, well, let's put it in where it would be, or the appropriate page, and they inserted an 1830 page of a Book of Mormon.

Scott Brandley:

So if you can, see the color discoloration.

Robert Messick:

That's the discoloration of 1836.

Alisha Coakley:

That is so awesome you got to think, like how many people read that one page? You know what I mean. Like how connected would you feel to just ancestors and other people? That's amazing. I love that idea. That's so smart. Where did you find that? What's this like? How did you acquire that one? Were you looking?

Robert Messick:

for it specifically. Or, yeah, the book printer did it in 2007 and they only actually printed 750 of them, so that actually is numbered and they're in private hands. There was a an individual that bought quite a few of them and then gave them to his family and then it kind of passed on and trickled out. But in general, sometimes they're on eBay, sometimes they're in rare book. Rare book dealers in Utah will know about the letterpress edition that you can get one.

Robert Messick:

But change of subject, one that's really interesting and kind of, when we go back to faith promoting, it's kind of interesting that, like I had mentioned, church history impacts the printing of the Book of Mormon and we kind of talked about this by. You know, when Joseph Smith passed away, there was the succession crisis in terms of who's going to succeed afterwards. That then creates various denominations to print the Book of Mormon. The other factor is that the Book of Mormon actually affects church history. Obviously we can see that, as we mentioned, that the Book of Mormon was made first and then the church was organized. But even more to that, that the Book of Mormon actually impacts how people live and it was really apparent in the 1800s in Utah and not many people know about this, but what was interesting the history behind or the background is that the church leadership was having a huge challenge regarding immigrants coming into the wild west Utah in the 1800s, and most of them were Scandinavian, european of some sort, and so they actually had to learn English and move and find a place to live and survive in Wild West Utah.

Robert Messick:

And so from that point alone, I actually have a lot of grace to early church leadership. I would never want to live in Wild West Utah because of all of those struggles. It wasn't just religious challenges, it was also just life challenges If you can't get your crops in, you don't live next winter and things like that. And so the church or I guess church leaders were just as focused around survivability as they were on spiritual survivability in the wild west of Utah. So one of the church leaders proposed to say, hey, let's help people learn English better, and so they created a shorthand system of verbally learning english called the desert alphabet. And, Alisha and scott, have you ever heard of desert alphabet or has anybody talked to you about?

Alisha Coakley:

we had a guest that talked about, oh, I think, his, his great, great, something grandfather like created. Remember that, scott, who was that?

Scott Brandley:

vaguely yeah, I'm. I mean, I've heard of it?

Robert Messick:

I don't know about it so, yeah, a great experience in terms of like. How do you deal with europeans that are either speaking italian or german or scandinavian and then get assigned to various parts of utah, and then you have to have them all interact, you know, on a state or a territory level. And so they issued an alphabet called the Desert Alphabet, and it was basically a set of characters that had various vowels and consonants that you could then read and verbally speak English, but it was different lettering system, if you will. So the Desert Alphabet was created in about 1860, and it was different lettering a system, if you will. And so the desert alphabet was created in about 1860 and it was continued onward.

Robert Messick:

But what happened is the transcontinental railroad came in the 1870s and it created a lot of competition of printed material for newspapers and magazines and books from the East coast being shipped, you know, across the States into California, things like that, and so there was a huge influx of English text material that the Desert Alphabet had some challenges. Also, it was hard to get typeset in that area, but there are volumes of the Book of Mormon, there are volumes that were created in Desert Alphabet, so this desert is called the Book of Mormon. There are volumes that were created in desert alphabet, so this desert is called the Book of Mormon.

Alisha Coakley:

Wow, that is so cool.

Robert Messick:

Wow, okay, so now in 69, so this was this was done in 1869. Wow, and over here there is a key that says what consonants what vowels are. Well, it was. The fun part about it is they printed a Book of Mormon but half of them were damaged. They warehoused these copies of the Book of Mormon and either a flood or water damage drew in about half of them and so actually this is a water damaged book and you can see that mine was hugely damaged and rebound, but I've got a Deseret Alphabet Book of Mormon. The fun part about it is they only printed 500 books, so this is one or 500 copies of the Book of Mormon. They did a reader edition about 10,000 copies of First Nephi through Words of Mormon as a precursor, but the full volume of the Book of Mormon. They only printed 500 of them. So a little inspiring. That says they tried to make a good thing. They had good intentions, but it just petered out pretty fast after the Transcontinental Railroad.

Scott Brandley:

That's fascinating.

Robert Messick:

Oh my gosh, I love that.

Scott Brandley:

Have you ever tried to read it?

Robert Messick:

Yeah, if I take the time I can kind of then cross-reference and it starts to get into it. But I'm so busy I don't want to read Deseret and Alpha Men.

Robert Messick:

I can read my normal English book, just as fine, but it's kind of a claim to fame saying, yeah, you know, if you spend about 15, 20 minutes you can kind of get into it, but then you lose it really fast and I don't want to pick it up again. Yeah, that's so neat. So with what we talked about, like one of 500 printings, one of 500 printings and if you looked at the text it almost looked kind of Greek, if you will, that not too many people knew this and so if they saw this they'd say, oh well, that's a foreign language book, and a lot of them got tossed. And so when we talk about early books like this, or like the 1830s or volumes of the Book of Mormon, a lot of times I've been asked, well, how many of the desert alphabet actually still survive? And specifically when I did a review of the 1830, that was my number one question that everyone asked me, like how many copies still survive? And what's interesting is specifically the 1830. So, 1830 Book of Mormon, 5,000 copies were printed, but we know that saints were moved from one place to another and sometimes their belongings were burned or ransacked, which really so with the 1830 Book of Mormon, people have asked, well, how many survive? And the answer is we don't know, and that's such an interesting question around like how many are there?

Robert Messick:

And the idea behind it is there is a good part of them are in university libraries that over the time they've been gifted the special collections. Libraries have them behind. You know them behind their vault that you can look at them, and university libraries have been great stewards of these first edition books. Another part is Church History Library. If you go into Salt Lake and kind of go to the church museum you can see these 1830 books in display cases. The Phineas Young one is there in in display cases. Um, the Phineas Young one is there. Um, what really got to me was an 1841, um Hiram Smith's 1841 copy that was with them in Carthage jail. Um, there, that one is is there and, um, I go, a good number of them were with church archives and then a good number of them are in private hands and so no one has actually ever done a thought around getting details.

Robert Messick:

The case study that we saw was the other key study was Gutenberg. The Gutenberg Bible was in the 1400s and they printed 180 of them and in the 1950s they tried to do a census it's called a book census, where they kind of gather information saying where are the Gutenberg Bibles, what condition are they in, are they full, are they partial, things like that. And they came up with 49 Gutenberg Bibles and in 2012, they updated with four more and 45, and then there's now 49. And so, real recently we've started a project called the Book of Mormon Census Project where we are actively looking for various early copies of the Book of Mormon, to get details and get information regarding the condition details so that in a couple of years, for the 200th anniversary, we have a confidence level of how many copies actually survive. So that's a multi-year project called the Book of Mormon Census Project. The website's called bookofmormonsensuscom and we are actively looking for these copies.

Robert Messick:

The university libraries have been wonderful because the librarians know the value of a census. Their leadership has been kind of interested in it in time and my promise to private collectors have been that if you give us information, we will keep ownership anonymous and we'll keep details confidential.

Robert Messick:

But we just want to know the condition where it's at, as well as the copy count and add to the records, and so over time we're expecting to have some success regarding the Book of Armin census. That's cool, that's really cool, yeah. And so with that it's been real interesting. And for your viewers, I could geek out on printing techniques and history and a lot of times snore fast on a lot of people. But what's been interesting is learning about where and how these books survived has been amazing. Survived has been amazing.

Robert Messick:

And each record in the Book of Mormon census kind of goes through provenance or history around where they were, who had them, why they were kept, things like that. For example, we found one of Emma Smith's copies and really interesting, in 1844, about a month before the martyrdom, john Adams' nephew and grandson did a tour of America and wanted to see this Mormon prophet and spent an afternoon with Joseph Smith and Emma Smith and they had a meal with Emma and Joseph Smith and Emma gave her personal copy of the Book of Mormon to the Adams family, president Adams' family and it's actually now in the Adams Presidential Library on the East Coast and what's interesting is there's lots of members that actually do a pilgrimage to see Emma Smith's personal copy of the Book of Mormon that's in a presidential library. And what I found fascinating is think of it this way Emma and Joseph were hosting dignitaries coming through the home and they wanted to kind of see this great Mormon experiment of Nabu and for them to house and for them to host these people. Enough for Emma to gift her copy of the Book of Mormon to these two gentlemen was interesting, because she was involved with missionary work and she was involved in the work and obviously she had quite a few copies and this was Brigham Young's gift to her because the 1841 copy was made in Great Britain.

Robert Messick:

Brigham came back and gave a copy, a few copies out, and I think she gave this copy to the Adams sons. But this copy was in the presidential library and it's just inspiring to say, wow, how amazing it is. And when I contacted the presidential library they said yeah, we've got quite a few youth groups that come see this copy and this has been the most asked for book in the presidential library. They said, yeah, we've got quite a few youth groups that come see this copy and this has been the most asked for book in the presidential library. That's amazing, that's good for them.

Alisha Coakley:

Right.

Robert Messick:

We'll see. What else was it? Oh yeah, one that was in Deseret News and it's showcased often is one that had Hiram Smith's inscription saying this was Hiram's book given to Reynolds Cahoon. And Reynolds Cahoon had quite a few family members and he gave it to his son and the son remained in Missouri and didn't go to out west and he actually was a slave owner in Missouri and when the emancipation proclamation came out he gave a copy of the book of mormon to a family of his freed slaves and they moved to illinois area and the the reynolds cajun.

Robert Messick:

Um, hiram smith copy is showcased on the book mormon census. That was interesting. Like these, uh, these african-american family had that copy of the book mormon, they called it the Mormon Bible for a long, long time and right around the turn of the century year, two thousands or so, they, they, uh, um passed it on to other people. But just interesting, like seeing who had these original copies and why has been really interesting.

Robert Messick:

Um, on the flip side there's been others. For example, alexander Campbell was a Protestant minister and he wrote quite a few things, not say against but in critique of the Mormon movement, and Alexander Campbell's copy has been there. There's quite a few annotations in the margins of it and seeing Alexander Campbell's copy and it was interesting kind of seeing how contemporaries of each other like Joseph Smith and Campbell was in the same time frame, how Alexander Campbell would kind of research the Mormons from a distance and kind of create his own opinions. But interesting that his copy of the Book of Mormon he had a copy of the 1830 Book of Mormon that would influence his direction of where he wanted to do, you know, would influence his opinions.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah. So, robert, what's the oldest version that you currently?

Robert Messick:

have. So, being a family man, I can't afford the early, early ones.

Scott Brandley:

Oh yeah, they're up there.

Robert Messick:

Yeah, five, six figures in terms of women. I'm just oh geez. And this has been. The benefit for me is, when I started this, I recognized that I would never probably be an owner of an early copy of the Book of Mormon, and so the next best thing I can do is take a bunch of pictures. And so there's quite a few pictures, and I feel like I'm in the boat with a bunch of pictures. And so, um, there's quite a few pictures and and I feel like I'm I'm in the boat with a lot of just normal people that says there's no way I will ever own a book of mormon of the of this magnitude. So because of it, it's nice to see, um, where they're either on display or or things like that. So my early one is the 1869 Desert Alphabet. That's kind of my claim to fame that I have one of those. I'm excited about it.

Scott Brandley:

Well, that's pretty dang cool.

Robert Messick:

The other benefit is for the census project is quite a few universities are submitting their copies and most, like every other university I've connected with, have said yeah, we actually have youth groups that will schedule some time to go in. And I was really fascinated that even in today's society you've got young men, young women's programs that schedule some time to go into university and see an 1830 Book of Mormon and I'll tell you, folks, when you actually are in a presence of one and have an ability to hold it and I kind of like to say, ooh, this is my replica. And when you feel it, if you will, there's some electricity to it and we call it the spirit. There really is a spirit that says there's something special about this. We call it sacred and for a reason because it means so much to us and so because of it, for youth groups to come in and say, hey, look at this, you know, take a look at this and flip through the pages. And librarians have been really nice to say, you know, be gentle with it, but look.

Robert Messick:

And for young people to experience it and to have their testimonies built because they actually say this was real. You know, somebody owned this in 1830, and maybe Joseph Smith or Hiram or Samuel Smith. A great missionary work would pass through their hands and have an ability to be touched by these people. And now I get to touch it as well. Yeah that's so cool.

Robert Messick:

We also have some honorable mentions and it was kind of interesting. You mentioned that a lot of people get copies of the Book of Mormon and who's who had them. In our honorable mention it was interesting that even Buzz Aldrin Buzz Aldrin's personal copy is listed. We've got one that was listed by Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was given multiple ones.

Robert Messick:

I have yet to record it, but it's been said that Elvis Presley was given quite a few. Specifically the Osmond family was influential in giving a copy to Elvis and so just interesting that you've got these presentation copies that were presented to various people now can be seen as saying oh yeah, that's so-and-so's copy of the Book of Mormon. So I send a message out that I'm trying to get the message out to private collectors that says I'm we're trying to get a proper copy counts and it's only good if everyone is respectful on it and knows that it's in good faith to record these private copies. And so my plea to private owners is that says that I'll keep ownership confidential and we'll keep this anonymous. But I'm really excited to work in the next couple of years recording various copies of the Book of Mormon and going forward Wow.

Scott Brandley:

It's really cool.

Alisha Coakley:

That's amazing. So and I know you said you know your oldest one is the one with the desert alphabet. Is that also your favorite one, or do you have another one that's kind of more your favorite?

Robert Messick:

Mine is the letterpress that I mentioned. It's the replica. And what's interesting is a lot of people look at a replica 1830 Book of Mormon and they say, well, it's novel form, there's no versing, and a lot of times you can see that there was typographical errors where the bits of letters were misplaced or things like that. And some people can be critical of an 1830 Book of Mormon and I actually am not and it's really interesting that we're in the 2020s and 2025, and we have 2020 vision, looking backwards and seeing the history in our lens, if you will.

Robert Messick:

And let's say that it's dangerous, but, as I've gone through this, I'm more forgiving of church history.

Robert Messick:

I'm more forgiving of Brigham Young's leadership, of whatever controversial topic that you kind of want to talk about. I'm glad that I'm living in my life as compared to having to deal with something previous, and so, because of it, I'm less critical and I'm more likely to understand that I don't know all of the picture and I don't know all of the stories behind it. We can see as best as we can and we kind of fill in the blanks when we don't know the details, but it's really humbling knowing that they had challenges we would never have now, and we have experiences that they would never even dream about previously. Have experiences that they would never even dream about previously, and for us to be critical of history really does disservice to us and history. So the takeaway that I've had with this has been really knowing that I'm less critical as well as I'm grateful for the path that the saints have had and the rows they've plowed, because I didn't have to, and so it's been really faith promoting for me as well.

Alisha Coakley:

I love, I love what you said about that. I'm really grateful for the roads that have been plowed so I don't have to like what a great perspective. You know, really, really great perspective, oh yeah, Well, this has been awesome, Robert.

Scott Brandley:

Thank you for having this desire to go and collect these and learn the stories and the histories behind them. I mean, that's truly a gift to all of us for you to be able to have that mission and then be able to share it, so as we kind of wrap things up. What are some final thoughts? You'd able to share it so as we, as we kind of wrap things up what are some final thoughts you'd like to share about your journey?

Robert Messick:

Um, that, uh, I'm a normal guy that's been kind of a Book of Mormon enthusiast. Um, the YouTube channel is Book of Mormon Editions. Um, the website is um, bookofmormonsensuscom, but in general the website is bookofmormonsensuscom, but in general. I'll reiterate it as well that a lot of times it's real easy to be critical of either church leadership now or, as well, church leadership of history. That something was, you know, they've wronged me or they wronged my family or they wronged these group of people.

Robert Messick:

And my daughter was interesting. She kind of mentioned that she had some struggles about a year ago with some friends and with her faith and she said you know, now that I've gone through it, I'm better off because I'm stronger and I know that God was with me stronger and I know that God was with me and in her teenage ways it's really great to see just a budding, growing testimony when hard times come or when wrongs happen, that we actually can grow from it as well. As yeah, in 1830 Book of Mormon. I love reading a replica edition. Because yeah, in 1830 Book of Mormon. I love reading a replica edition. Because yeah, they're. The typesets is the typesetting is every three pages have. It has an air, and I love seeing it because it actually means that the printers were human and was human and wanted to get this out as fast as possible because he knew the importance of it.

Alisha Coakley:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on here today. And just for any listeners out there, guys like, if you have one of these rare copies of the book of Mormon, let's definitely reach out to Robert and we'll have his information in the description. Connect with them and and let them know. I mean, I'm going to tell you too, Robert. Instead of saying I'll never own a copy of the 1830s, you should just start picturing exactly how it would feel to hold it in your hands, Because you never know If, Heavenly Father, wants you to have it you'll have it.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, wow, awesome. Well, thanks again, robert, for being on the show. We really appreciate you Awesome. Well, thanks again, robert, for being on the show. We really appreciate you, and anybody that's inspired by Robert, for having him having courage to be on the show. We hope that you'll also get on latterdaylightscom and tell us about your story so we can have you as well.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, absolutely. And don't forget guests or listeners to do your five-second missionary work. Go ahead and comment on this episode. Let us know what your favorite was that you saw today, or if you have another favorite that maybe Robert you know wasn't able to show off yet or doesn't have in his collection. Let us know what your favorite version of the Book of Mormon is. And, uh, and do that little five second missionary work. Hit that share button, get Robert's story out here. We would, we would really love to be able to reach you know far and wide. So well.

Robert Messick:

thank you for having me. I am I'm so excited to be with you.

Scott Brandley:

Well, it's been a pleasure, for sure. Yeah, definitely All right. Well, everybody, take care until next week when we share another story of Latter-day Lights. See you later, bye-bye.

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Scott Brandley

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Alisha Coakley

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