LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Primary vs. Secondary Questions with Jerry Paskett & and Fred Dodini (Faith to Stay Part 2 of 5) - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley

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How do you keep your faith when questions feel louder than answers?

This Sunday, episode 2 of our 5-part “Faith to Stay” miniseries dives into the idea of “Primary vs. Secondary Questions”—a core principle from Latter-Day Lights host and founder Scott Brandley’s new book on weathering spiritual storms.

Joined by returning guests—near-death survivor, Jerry Paskett, and Catholic-turned-Latter-day Saint, Dr. Fred Dodini—Scott and Alisha unpack Elder Lawrence E. Corbridge’s landmark talk “Stand Forever.” Together, they explore which questions actually anchor belief, why some doubts derail discipleship, and how personal revelation outshines internet rabbit holes. Their candid stories—from bedside miracles to late-night theological wrestling—show how holding onto just one rock-solid truth can steady an entire life.

If competing voices have ever made you wonder whether the Gospel holds up, this conversation will help you tune out the noise and lean into the answers that matter most.

*** Please SHARE Jerry and Fred's stories and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode, visit: https://youtu.be/vXSMaQ8MinE

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To READ Scott’s book “Faith to Stay,” visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

To WATCH Jerry's first episode, visit: https://youtu.be/ngNslua0nM4

To WATCH Jerry's second episode, visit: https://youtu.be/NyaeMdFxEXA

To WATCH Fred's episode, visit: https://youtu.be/Hc8ZKu-xC_0

To WATCH Elder Lawrence Corbridge's talk, "Stand Forever," visit: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/lawrence-e-corbridge/stand-for-ever/

To READ Dr. Fred Dodini's book, "Shine Brighter," visit: https://www.amazon.com/Shine-Brighter-Choosing-Greater-Clarity/dp/1631953346

To LEARN MORE about Scott's beneficiary, "The Marcovia Project," visit: https://themarcoviaproject.org

To WATCH The Marcovia Project's Latter-Day Lights episode, visit: https://youtu.be/E1zdsd9vLhM

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Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaylights

Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

Scott Brandley:

Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley:

And I'm Alisha Coakley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley:

On today's episode, we're going to talk about a concept called primary and secondary questions and how it can help us when we have doubts about the gospel. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today, and this is going to be a little bit different. This isn't our normal format, and that's because throughout this month, I'm actually launching my new book called Faith to Stay, and I've invited some of our previous guests to come back onto the show and share some of their experiences with some of the things that I share in my book, and so it's really exciting. Last week, we did our first episode. We're going to do five total, so this week is our second part of the series and we're actually going to be talking about primary and secondary questions, and I'm really excited to jump into it. But before we do that, let me introduce our special guests. So we have Jerry Paskett. Hi, jerry, how's it going?

Jerry Paskett:

Hey everyone, Hi Nice to see you again.

Scott Brandley:

You too, man. So Jerry is a good friend. He's been on the podcast twice and in that time we've actually become good friends. He lives here in Ogden and we've gone and hung out and had lunch a few times and done some things together. It's been a lot of fun. But his story is back in. Was it 2020, right?

Jerry Paskett:

2021.

Scott Brandley:

Oh, 2021. So he got COVID and he almost died and had a near-death experience and he's come on the show twice and talked, talked about that. That's been really good. Um, we're actually going to post those episodes in the show notes so, if you want, you can go and watch both of those episodes and then dr fred his. His story is that he was grew up catholic and studied to be a priest and then, um, at some point you're introduced to the church, right?

Scott Brandley:

exactly and, uh, we had a great conversation with you on the podcast as well, so we'll include that down in the show notes. And then you all know Alisha, my co-host. This is weird for you, because usually you kind of kick it off right.

Alisha Coakley:

I know I'm just sitting here being quiet, just wait, it's good though.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah. So I asked Alisha to kind of be part of the guests instead of the co-host today, so that we can have more of a discussion instead of sharing a story. And I guess I am kind of sharing part of my story, so maybe that's kind of how we'll kick it off story. So maybe that's kind of how we'll kick it off. So in this book, faith to Stay the premise of the book was back in 2014,. I became a bishop and right after I got put in, I had a family come and tell me they were leaving the church and part of that experience was that they had, they were struggling with, um, the essays that the church came out with back then to try to clear up doctrinal issues and things like that, and so I went home that night. I had never heard of them and I went home and I read all of them in one shot and it was.

Scott Brandley:

There was the pressure of helping this family to find their answers, plus all of these articles that I read, and it was overwhelming at the time and I I had a faith crisis while I was a Bishop and it was hard. It was a real struggle because everything that I believed was on the line and the way I got through that was I was inspired to break my faith down into the most basic elements that I could think of at the time and I came up with five questions, and those questions were is God real? Is Jesus Christ real? Is Joseph Smith a prophet? Is the church true? And is the Book of Mormon true? And so that was on my side, that was my experience. And then I had a second family leave the church while I was serving as a bishop as well and I did everything I could to try to get both of those families to stay in the church, but they both ended up leaving and it was really hard because they were both families, were close to me and they took their kids with them, which was even harder. And I the time I feel like I did everything I could.

Scott Brandley:

But about two years later a talk came out by Elder Lawrence E Corbridge of the 70. And the talk was called Stand Forever. And when I read that talk it was incredible and that's what I wanted to discuss. In fact, it was so powerful that I put it in my book and that's kind of what I want to talk about today. So that's kind of my background story on this episode. So I guess I want to start out by seeing what you guys thought about the talk.

Alisha Coakley:

I loved it. I, I actually just listened to it like 30 minutes ago and I, first of all, for our listeners, I think we can put the link to that talk in the show notes too, so if anyone wants to go and reference it, it's really really good. Um, I did listen to it on two X speed. I was trying to get it all all in there, but um it, you know, I I love that he starts off and he talks about how, like he had other talks that he could have done, that were more entertaining, that had more stories, that were more engaging, but he just felt like this needed to be spoken about. Like he just felt like this needed to be spoken about, like he just felt like this topic was really, really good and um, and for me, just the simplicity of the whole primary versus secondary questions is genius, you know it's. It really comes down to like we get so caught up sometimes in all of the, the icing on the cake, I guess, that we forget that there's actually cake, right, and we actually forget that there's like something of substance that matters more. Um, and and I just I love that he like put it in such simple terms, such easy to understand terms. It actually made me think about how, scott, when, when I was in your ward with you and I was in young women's, you came and you taught um, well, I guess let's back up.

Alisha Coakley:

People are probably going to ask what, what do you mean? Primary and secondary questions, right, like the listeners are probably wondering what are you guys talking about? So in his talk he mentions that there are some key questions, the primary questions, the foundational questions, where, if you know the answer to those, anything else that comes later on is sub par to those primaries. Like is God real? Like what Scott was just talking about. Right, like, you've got those five core questions. He and his top only had four. Right, which one did you add? The?

Scott Brandley:

very last one yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

So he only has the first four. Scott added the fifth one, which I think is super important. And then he says some of the secondary questions might be blacks in the priesthood, might be the polygamy, might be talking about racism in the church, it might be talking about changes in the temple. It might be talking about, um, you know, um, homosexuality and and marriage and um, you know just all of these things that, like, they're definitely important and they're parts of our history, and there are things that can get really muddy sometimes when we try to talk about them, but the reality is that none of those carry as much weight as the foundational watch. So, anyway, I thought it was great.

Alisha Coakley:

I remember you saying something. You came and you taught the young women when I was um, a young women's leader in our ward, and you told the girls and I think this is before you even heard that talk, I feel like it was before you really started working on your book and all that. Maybe, I don't know, it was a long time ago and you said to the girls you said, really, when you think about how to live your life, you can get so caught up in the details of all the things that we have to do. But it just comes down to this there's either a God or there's not a God, right? You're like, just start with that and just live your life according to the thing that has the least amount of risk.

Alisha Coakley:

And you're like, if we die and there's no God, then it literally doesn't matter how we lived, right? So okay, you can do whatever you're going to do because there's no God, there's nothing afterwards, and that's fine. But if you live your life as if there's no God and then you die and you find out there is one're gonna have a price to pay, right, like it's. It's riskier for you to live like there's no god and to hope that there's no god than it is for you to there is one and hope that there's not one, right? So, like, I just loved that and it was so again, it was so simple, it was genius, and I think that that's what other corbridge did. Corbridge or bridge, yeah, I love.

Scott Brandley:

Like it was just so simple.

Alisha Coakley:

It was genius and I was like that's what other Corbridge did Corbridge, corbridge, corbridge. Yeah, I love like it was just so simple, it was genius and I was like that's great.

Scott Brandley:

So what about you guys?

Jerry Paskett:

Jerry, yeah, I echo what Alisha said about the simplicity of it For me after I listened to it. I've listened to it a few times, but when I listened to it the first time was when you introduced me to the book when you were still in the process of completing it, and it jumped right out to me how simple it is and how easy it was. If you drill down, whatever those questions might be for you, I think that's kind of an individual thing. Whatever those questions might be for you, I think that's kind of an individual thing.

Jerry Paskett:

Like you added a question, I created my own questions, but it gives you permission to eliminate the noise and in this society that we live in there is so much background chatter and so much noise, whether it be religiously, spiritually, socially, and it just kind of gave me permission to really simplify it Awesome.

Scott Brandley:

How about you, Fred?

Fred Dodini:

Yeah, I really like the talk. It addresses something I run into. As a therapist I've worked a lot with people in and out of the church who struggle with faith in general, specifically for people in the church. Oftentimes they've been offended by people in the church. There's a long list of things people use as a reason to leave and I have a grandson who he and his wife got married in the temple but within a year, two years afterwards they basically have left the church and I think it's more over some of the social issues and stuff than it is some of the key doctrinal questions. And so it's unfortunately, it's part of it's the parable of the you know, the 10 virgins. We see people who are not prepared spiritually. They haven't really dug deep enough to get the clear answers to the primary questions so they're more vulnerable to the secondary ones if they haven't really done their due diligence there and unfortunately I see that as that's continuing and it's growing, unfortunately with the youth yeah, yeah, I like what you said about the distraction thing.

Alisha Coakley:

I know that's something that, um, all three of my kids have either had mornings like in their patriarchal blessings or they've had just like regular priest priesthood blessings that talk about how, um, regular priest priesthood blessings that talk about how, um, satan will try to destroy you, but if not, he'll try to distract you. You know, like he doesn't care which one he like destroying is great, but if he can just distract you, that's good too, and so I think you're right. I think and I don't think it's like the younger generation, I think it's everybody in this day and age now is so easily distracted. You know, and and we're looking for answers to everything Like we want everything to be perfect. I think one of the things that the talk said was something about like the. The absence of evidence is not it's in the negative, or something like that. Right?

Alisha Coakley:

like didn't he say something around along those lines? Like everyone's trying to like prove everything right or wrong with the church. They're trying to get into the nitty-gritty of all the details. Oh well, see this right here. This can't be true, so it means the whole thing has to go out the window. Yeah, it's like. Just because you don't know the answer to this completely or you don't understand the full context or whatever, it doesn't mean that you throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

Scott Brandley:

Right.

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah, isn't it interesting that that whole thought process that you just brought up, Alisha, if that were reality, that would completely remove faith.

Alisha Coakley:

Oh 100%.

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah, and then what do we have?

Scott Brandley:

Right, then where's the test? Yeah Right, yeah, yeah, I think you're, we have how. Uh, it's, even even getting a testimony of the primary questions is harder today, but those two things go together, because I think what you said, Alisha if you, if Satan, can distract us enough so that we don't even gain a strong testimony of the primary questions, then he still wins.

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah, yeah.

Scott Brandley:

And then the secondary questions are just fuel to the fire, right?

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah.

Fred Dodini:

Yeah, and it doesn't prepare us. It doesn't prepare us for whatever challenges may come in our lives. If our faith is shallow, you know, and not really founded on the rock, so to speak, we're going to be less resilient, less able to bounce back from the challenges that life will throw at us, especially in the coming years, as we anticipate more difficulties.

Scott Brandley:

All right. So the next question I had was have you ever struggled with secondary questions that pulled you away from the primary questions?

Alisha Coakley:

No, we're perfect, Scott. We never would do that. Only like 15 or 16 times in our life Like that's it.

Fred Dodini:

Oh, okay, some of those secondary questions I mean some of them not really don't have anything to do with with Joseph Smith or the book of Mormon or, you know, polygamy, all those issues. Sometimes it's just struggling with people in the church, you know, are they examples of what they believe? That was my. I had some pretty significant challenges my first year in the church. I was 20 when I got baptized. Obviously, my family was all Catholic and they really, really struggled with that decision.

Fred Dodini:

And a small town. I grew up in Gridley, california. Everybody knew everybody and the LDS community was a very large one in my hometown. My father was a pharmacist. There were only three pharmacies in my hometown. Two of them were owned by LDS people and my father owned the third.

Fred Dodini:

But I remember distinctly the first testimony meeting I think I went to after I was baptized. This older farmer guy got up in the audience to share his testimony. I knew he was a farmer because he was wearing his clean press overalls and he went on about his grandson, how great his grandson was and, as you know, I heard about his grandson and his grandson just during the Vietnam era, right. So he's you know he had gone in the army. I don't know if he's drafted or rejoined and served a tour duty in Vietnam. He came home and went to the police academy and now he was. Now he was a police officer and he's out there saving the world from all these long hair dope smoking hippies by, you know, cracking them on the head and making the world a safer place.

Fred Dodini:

And I'm thinking to myself wait a second, you just trashed some of my best friends. I thought we were supposed to love our enemies and do good to those who disagree with us and all that sort of stuff. But I remember talking to myself in that situation. I thought, you know, I can't expect everybody in this church to believe or understand it the same way I did at that time. And you know, and I was alone in it, you know, family wasn't there. New, you know, new congregation with people. And I just told myself you know, my testimony is not going to be based on the testimony, or the lack thereof, of others. Whether they live the principles fully or not is not my concern. It's whether I am and whether I'm true to the things that I already know. And, um, it was a challenge.

Fred Dodini:

Another one well, one of those lds doctors, um, had a little arrangement with the lds pharmacist across the street from his office, which is right next to the hospital in my hometown, and you know, when he would see patients he would call in their prescriptions to this other LDS pharmacy across the street.

Fred Dodini:

Well, some of those people were. They were clients of my father's, and so they reached out to my dad and said you know, we don't like this. This doctor sent us to this other pharmacy we want to come to yours and he had been doing this for a while and obviously he was getting paid kickbacks, I guess. And my father confronted him about it and said you know, this is illegal. You know that, and if you don't stop this, I'm going to have to report this to the licensing board. So that doctor hated my dad's guts for the rest of their lives and he was really rude to him any time he got the opportunity to, and after I'd gotten baptized and joined the church, this doctor you know my father would run into these guys on a regular basis, a small town, and he just insulted my father one time by saying you know, you must be a lousy father because you can't keep your own kids in your church.

Fred Dodini:

I thought that's the worst thing you could say to someone who's you know. I thought that's the worst thing you could say to someone who's you know who is and my dad was a great dad To insult him that way, to hit below the belt, so to speak. So that was a challenge. It was a challenge for my parents because my parents knew most of these people. There was another guy who was actually my first bishop. He was a butcher, had his own little butcher shop in town. First bishop, he was a butcher, had his own little butcher shop in town and about six months after I got baptized he got arrested for cattle rustling. Yeah, and everybody knew. I mean, I remember when he was released as the bishop and I remember seeing him in church the next Sunday with his whole family and you could tell everybody just looked at him like he was the lowest person on the earth.

Fred Dodini:

I felt terrible for him because um, and his family I mean I, you know, his wife and kids were great kids and good family and stuff. So I think a lot of people in the church struggle with that more than they do with some of these secondary doctrinal questions.

Fred Dodini:

It's because do I want to be in an organization where some people don't seem to you know practice what they preach and live their religion and um, you know, and unfortunately you know we can point out examples of people who don't you know the real mormon or whatever. I mean, there's just you know, and so that I think can be a bigger challenge for some people. The doctrinal issues I never had a problem with.

Scott Brandley:

And that's interesting. I love that you brought that out, because it can be more than just questions. It can be situations and it can be what other other people's actions I I mean both those examples that you just gave are total cause for for people to leave the church oh, yeah, you could totally justify leaving.

Fred Dodini:

Yeah, well you know my parents would come to me and say how can you be part of this organization? We know these people. We know they're dishonest, unscrupulous people. You know and we knew so. There were some people in our catholic you know parish there that I'd grown up with. I knew these people very well, some of the most honorable, faithful people you could meet, you know, and that was how do I explain this to my parents that you know I didn't. I don't care these other people, what they do or don't do, what they should be doing. It's not. It doesn't change my testimony, my understanding of the principles and the truthfulness of it all, but I think it made it that much more difficult for me to ever discuss the church with them and we had that understanding from that point on is we did not talk about the church.

Scott Brandley:

Wow, yeah, jerry, any thoughts yeah?

Jerry Paskett:

Well I love, lisha said at the very, very beginning. She says oh yeah, scott, we're all just perfect. You know, when you ask if we'd ever struggled with this and I don't know why, but I have never, ever struggled with the secondary questions, but it doesn't mean I haven't been tested on the primary questions many, many times. I've always been able to view the secondary questions as if people are reciting a secondary question to me. It's an excuse or a reason to justify, but fortunately I've always been able to just go back to the. Well, if that's the case, then that would make it all wrong and I've been very, very lucky that way. But I've had some pretty big struggles with primary questions I've shared some of that on this podcast with you and battles with Satan, and when he does come knocking and take up residence on one of my shoulders, he's usually embracing those things that I really hold near and dear, and that is the primary questions, particularly the priesthood Interesting.

Alisha Coakley:

So can.

Jerry Paskett:

I ask like what At?

Alisha Coakley:

the same time. I'm sorry, go ahead. What about the priesthood question? Like, what's the struggle? I guess, what's the thought process that's that makes the priesthood tough for you?

Jerry Paskett:

It wouldn't be so much a struggle as, as for some, for some reason, reasons that I don't know I've been very, very fortunate, very blessed in my life to see incredible miracles at the hands of the priesthood, both in the receiving and the giving, and I've been very, very fortunate to be able to communicate through the channels of deity, through priesthood blessings, and so when I do start having doubts and everything, then it would require me to deny what I know and what I've seen, and particularly since my near-death experience, the priesthood plays a huge, huge role in promoting what I call now a knowledge-based knowledge I've shared that with you before as opposed to a faith-based knowledge that we are indeed teaching correct doctrine when it comes to the plan of salvation.

Jerry Paskett:

I've seen it, I've been there. So it gets really kind of scary for me when I start slipping backwards based on that. Scott, I don't know if I'm answering your question or not, but I don't get lost in the little things because I think that, and to me the secondary questions are the little things because I feel like they all are answered in the primary questions.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, but it's interesting if we start to focus on secondary questions. It's a slippery slope. You can be pulled down some dark roads. In fact, the second couple that left when I was a bishop that's how they left started to do some research and things outside of church, outside of LDSorg, and that's what it was at the time. But she started looking at other sources of information and ultimately she started going down dark roads and couldn't come back.

Jerry Paskett:

She couldn't get back. She couldn't overcome it. Don't you think we're all susceptible to doing that kind of thing? And if so, if the answer to that is yes, how do we avoid it? How do you, how do you recognize? Hey, this can end up nowhere. I'm not going to gain additional knowledge or strengthen my testimony. I'm kind of sliding backwards here. How do you prevent that?

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that Elder Corbidge talked about. He said you can't learn the truth by elimination.

Scott Brandley:

I don't know if you guys remember him saying that but it was so good I copied it down onto some notes here so maybe I could read it. He said there are some who are afraid the church may not be true and who spend their time and attention slogging through the swamp of the secondary questions. They mistakenly try to learn the truth by process of elimination, by attempting to eliminate every doubt. That's always a bad idea. It will never work. That approach only works in the game of Clue. Remember saying that.

Fred Dodini:

Yeah, in the library with the candlestick or what? Yeah, go ahead, fred.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah.

Fred Dodini:

Go ahead, Fred. That's that kind of rational approach that I think a lot of people they want to prove God's existence. When I was the clinical director for the Anasazi Foundation it's a wilderness program in Arizona. There was a 17-year-old boy, Jewish kid from New Jersey, who was a really smart kid and he had a very successful business he was running for himself in high school. It was making him good amount of money and he was expecting it with it would finance his college education in the future. All right, he sold cocaine, yeah, but he told me he was an ethical cocaine dealer and he was pretty convincing about this.

Fred Dodini:

You know, I only sell good quality cocaine. I don't cut it and dilute it with whatever. I only sell to people who can afford it who are not, you know. You know pawning their parents' jewelry and stereo equipment to pay for their habit, and I can be trusted and my clients know that. My customers know that. So he was convinced. Well, long story short, how did he wind up in the wilderness of Arizona? His father was a cop, by the way.

Fred Dodini:

Forgot to tell you that, yeah, yeah, and his dad knows he's doing this but he's not going to throw him under the bus. But he kept warning him and one night the boy was driving through some neighborhood in a sketchy part of Hoboken or wherever he lived in New Jersey, and he got pulled over by a cop because his taillight was out and the officer looked at his license and registration and all that stuff and then told him to fix the light and send him on his way. The next day he mentioned that to his father at breakfast and his dad said you're toast. And the kid said what are you talking about? I didn't have anything in the car. They didn't search, nothing happened. He said yeah, it did. They know who you are, they know your car and they looked at your license. They know you don't live in that town or that part of town. So they know you're there for one of two reasons You're either there to sell drugs or to buy them. They'll be looking for you the next time. It's just a matter of time. He said he didn't believe it. Sure enough, six months later, boom, he got popped and his father, I think, talked to the judge and said I'm going to send him to this wilderness program That'll straighten him out. So we used to have these great talks.

Fred Dodini:

As far as religion goes, his parents were active, you know, devout Jews and he was an agnostic. He couldn't believe in God if his presence couldn't be empirically proven. So we had these great intellectual conversations about all this stuff. And I remember it was about his third week on the trail, you know we had not proven empirically that God existed and I told him I said the only way I know for people to know if God really exists is to seek some kind of interaction with him, reach out and see if he reaches back. Well, the next week, when I came back on the trail to see him, he ran up to me. He was so excited.

Fred Dodini:

We walked down the creek bed and he jumped on top of this big rock and proclaimed, like Moses of old, that he knew that God existed. I said really what happened? This seems like a sudden change of mind here. He said it was only like three days before they were hiking through the wilderness and they were climbing. He was climbing up a very steep cliff face and he got about halfway up. He said it was probably a good 20, 25 feet off the ground and the ledge he was standing on began to crumble and he could feel himself starting to fall. He did everything he could to try and dig his hands and feet into the cliff side, but nothing he knew. He got to that point where he knew I'm going to fall and I could die. You know, he would have fallen 25 feet onto these big rocks below him, he said. At that moment, as he was in the process of falling, he said something caught him in midair, he described like a giant hand and lifted him up and put him on a safe place on the ledge.

Alisha Coakley:

Oh my gosh.

Fred Dodini:

I said sounds like God to me, what do you think? And so he was convinced that God existed, right, okay, but he wasn't convinced about changing his ways because he still went home to New Jersey and continued to restart his successful business. Well, about six months after that now he's 18, right he got busted again. Now this is potentially his second felony drug conviction for possession and with intent to distribute. So I never saw him after that. But I did. I did call him when I was cause. I his stories in my book.

Fred Dodini:

And so I call him and said you know what happened after that experience? Do you, do you think about what you shared with me out on the trail, about your experience with God? And you see, I think about it from time to time, but it really didn't change his behavior. And so I thought there are people you can give them all kinds of signs and they can say God exists, but does that change their mind, their heart, their disposition, their behavior? Do they really commit themselves to that relationship? Because in his case it didn't. It wasn't enough for him.

Fred Dodini:

And we've been told that miracles don't convert people Because we forget them after a while, or in the days of Samuel the Lamanite. All these amazing things happened and after a while people just came up with other excuses, other explanations for why these things happened that had nothing to do with God. So unless people are willing to take a deep dive into the doctrines and reach out and establish that relationship with God on a very personal level where they will continue to seek revelation and answers to those questions, god is the first person we should go to with our doubts If we know he's there. Why go to the Internet when the source of all knowledge is right over our heads? And I think for people in the church who understand that, that's the first place they go with their doubts, because they trust that God will help them find the answers. It may not come right away and it may not come in the way that they expect it but I'm convinced it always comes yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Well and a lot of the questions that we do. Well, I think people look online because one, it's fast and easy.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, right.

Scott Brandley:

But the problem is that we don't know who is behind the answer to that question online, right, you know the answer to that question online, right, you know, and I would say most of the time, it's probably not someone that you can trust. And so you're being, you're putting your eternal salvation in the hands of a stranger who might have nefarious purposes to pull you away.

Alisha Coakley:

And not only that, people might just honestly be mistaken, like like I don't. Like my parents. They grew up in the time where, like, everyone glorified the Mormon doctrine by Bruce Armaconkey, right, like that. They felt like that was total scripture from God and like some of it was really in line with the gospel. But there were some of it that the church literally came out and was like this is not doctrine, like it's not. Yes, the title is mormon doctrine but it's not. It's not canonized scripture or anything like that. It's not something that the church doesn't his personal opinion on things.

Alisha Coakley:

And so my parents grew up having this information that they like just adamantly, like agreed with and then they just spewed it everywhere you know what I mean and they did so with even more limited information because they were very um inactive from church and so they weren't getting all of the things and they were doing the things that were keeping them from being able to like fully hear and understand the spirit. You know just they're making choices that just didn't keep them close to the Lord. So so misinformation and I think your own personal experience sometimes can can offer even worse information than someone who's trying to maliciously give wrong information, right Like sometimes that can be worse, um so you know I didn't expect this conversation to go this direction.

Jerry Paskett:

Maybe this isn't applicable or not, and this is where you guys have the power of the edit, so but you know I love what Fred said about you know we should be going to God, and it reminded me. I just had an aha moment when Scott asked me in the second podcast if my prayers were different. Scott, you and I have talked about this privately and I've really reflected on that question a lot. And when Fred says we should be going directly to the source, it has been my experience and probably one of the most powerful experiences in my life.

Jerry Paskett:

If I go to the source and I will just be patient, but more than patient, I have to know that that answer is going to come and it's going to come on his time, when it's convenient for him and not convenient for me or when I am prepared for it. But the most important part is I have to be able to recognize it when that answer comes. Is I have to be able to recognize it when that answer comes and whether that be I don't push it to the side or I choose not to hear it or I just openly ignore it, I have to be able to know and become familiar enough that that can be answered and I think, a lot of these secondary questions if we're going to go down that road need to be approached that way that he will answer those questions, but we have to be willing to listen and hear it.

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Well, and even Elder Corbidge says there are answers to the secondary questions.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, when we get those answers, we don't know.

Scott Brandley:

Or when we get the complete answer.

Alisha Coakley:

we don't know, because sometimes it's, you know, sometimes on the surface it just looks really bad. I mean, yeah, oh, go ahead, Brad.

Fred Dodini:

No, I was just thinking of, you know, the whole issue with blacks in the priesthood. Right when I joined the church, you know, I became aware that my feelings were I don't agree with this. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't seem to be in harmony with the gospel. If there's been a mistake made, the Lord will correct it in time, and so I didn't give it much thought after that. And that's exactly what happened, you know, and that was. Should it have taken 150 something years?

Alisha Coakley:

or whatever.

Fred Dodini:

No, it shouldn't have, but it was. You know, even within the leadership of the church. If you've read, you know about Hubie Brown's experience and Duff Hanks' book. Mary D Hanks, his son, wrote a book about his struggles with that question and how there was conflict within you know the leadership of the church in the Forum of the Twelve over that issue. But you know, because they have to make the decision unanimously, everybody has to be in the same frame of mind to be able to invite the Spirit and be in a place when they're ready to hear it and apply it and let their own personal biases, you know, put them aside and unfortunately sometimes that takes a while for some people to come to that point where they really are humble and submissive enough to rely on the Lord 100% for those answers and unfortunately that's true of even people at the highest levels in the church sometimes that they have their own biases they have to deal with.

Fred Dodini:

But that's part of our moral agency, it's part of what we have been given the freedom to listen and learn and decide for ourselves. And I think people, if they're really committed to finding the truth, that they will find it. But it takes some humility sometimes and not everybody is ready for that.

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Interesting. Okay, this question is a little bit unique. I don't know how it's going to go down, but you both have very different.

Jerry Paskett:

What I love that?

Scott Brandley:

yeah. So jerry and fred, you both have very unique stories, um, and I think they both apply to the idea of primary and secondary questions in different ways. Fred, you were obviously coming from the Catholic faith. The ideas and the doctrines that are taught in the church were unique to you, and you had to do a lot of research, and I'm sure you had both types of questions in your mind coming in. So I'd like to get some of your thoughts on how those affected your decision to join the church. And then from Jerry, having a near-death experience and having a different perspective right from most people in the church, how has that impacted your ideas around questions in the gospel?

Fred Dodini:

So different same kind of question different perspective.

Fred Dodini:

Yeah, well, you know, I left the seminary about two years before I joined the church and the reason I left it was because I knew that there were doctrinal errors within Catholicism. It became apparent to me, you know, we're studying the doctrines, we're studying the history of the church and Augustine and Thomas Aquinas and some of the great theologians, and it just, you know, maybe it was just the spirit warming me up and preparing me for something more, but I started with questioning my own faith and realizing that there were errors here and that I had to rely on God to answer those questions. And I think I shared with you the experience I had in prayer. It was just a month or so after I'd left the seminary, where I was just kneeling by my bed saying my evening prayer and I said, heavenly Father, if there is truth to be found on the earth, please lead me to it. And I got a powerful response and an answer that my prayer had been heard and would be answered in a specific time frame. It would be in two years and would be answered in a specific time frame. It would be in two years. Now, why two years? Maybe because I wasn't quite ready at that point to hear the answer that it would come at a time in my life when I was prepared to act on it, which I was.

Fred Dodini:

But I had always struggled with those questions and when I read the Book of Mormon for the first time, the answers just flew off the pages. You know a lot of the stuff that was incomplete in, certainly, the Catholic Vulgate version of the Bible. The Book of Mormon began to fill in those blank spaces and then, after taking the missionary discussions and praying and getting the testimony, the other stuff didn't matter, it was irrelevant testimony. The other stuff didn't matter, it was irrelevant because those primary questions were already answered. The other things would fall into place in time, even if I didn't fully understand the policies. Why the Lord brought back polygamy, I don't know. Was it the Abrahamic test, which some people think it was? I don't know. The whole issue of the priesthood I had studied. I'd read accounts by black members of the church and the early black families that Joseph had ordained and all that stuff, and I knew the context of the Dred Scott case, which was about the same time, and I thought, well, maybe there's some historical precedence here, maybe there's a reason for this, but it didn't challenge my understanding of the doctrines. So for me at least, since I'd already struggled with my original faith, my original doctrinal upbringing and stuff like that, I felt prepared.

Fred Dodini:

When questions came up about you know, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and all those things, it was so easy to dismiss those questions and concerns because the primary questions had already been answered. And I never had that experience growing up in the Catholic Church. It was always cloaked in mysticism and you know and that sort of thing. You didn't get clear, decisive answers. And when the Spirit speaks to you and gives you that answer, you never forget that experience.

Fred Dodini:

And so I think back to those primary experiences when my testimony first began to take shape. Those experiences will never, ever change Worlds without end. I'll never come to a point in time when I redefine those experiences as the effects of a frenzied mind. That's not going to happen, right, because they are too vivid, too real and they have been reinforced so many times over the years, the same strong spiritual impressions. So again that my experiences uh, changing churches, I think is partially what prepared me to deal with whatever opposition I would face when I made that decision and there was some opposition. Yeah, wow, whatever opposition I would face when I made that decision and there was some opposition.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, wow, jerry.

Jerry Paskett:

Scott asked me the question again.

Scott Brandley:

I remember what you asked, but I want to hear it again. So how has having had a near-death experience changed your perspective when it comes to questions of the gospel?

Jerry Paskett:

Okay. Well, if you remember, as we've talked about this, it took me several months to put the pieces of this puzzle together. I think I described it as a thousand-piece puzzle thrown on a table and somebody says put this together, and they take the box top away. I had no idea what it looked like, I didn't know what I was putting together, but I did realize very quickly on having been a member of the church. A lifelong member of the church had good parents that brought me up in the gospel. I that brought me up in the gospel.

Jerry Paskett:

I realized pretty quickly after my near-death experience that spirituality is one thing and my religious beliefs are quite another. And within my spirituality is where I find the primary questions. I can't have one without the other. I understand that the ordinances and such that are required to be a member of the church to participate in those they all link together. But since my near-death experience, the spirituality has been my primary focus point and within those lies my questions about God, the Father, and lies my questions about my Savior as a brother and the Holy Ghost as my friend and my compass.

Jerry Paskett:

Within those primary questions is when I ask myself about my priesthood and could I deny that I asked myself about the Book of Mormon. Could I deny that? Would I deny it? And as a result of that, I find it pretty easy not to, as Fred, and I love what Fred says. Yeah, I don't understand polygamy, but that's okay. I don't understand the blacks and the priesthood thing, but you know what, I'm great with it. I don't get caught up in that noise, and it's been even more so since I had that experience at the veil and all of the miracles that accompanied all that that I went through and those conversations with deity that I've been able to be blessed with. So did that answer your question?

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, I mean, there's no right or wrong answer. I just wanted to get your thoughts on it. Yeah, I appreciate it, Alisha, do you have any thoughts?

Alisha Coakley:

You know, I was thinking about it and I mean, I don't have as cool of an experience as either of these gentlemen here, but I think my perspective is a little bit more of like someone who either of these gentlemen here, but I think my perspective is a little bit more of like someone who was raised in the church, who, like I, never had to relearn something and I also didn't have a big experience like like Jerry did, where I was pretty to like more spiritual knowledge and in that sense, right, like something that was like so big and grand and and so for me it's been kind of like, yeah, it's like a different type of investigation, right.

Alisha Coakley:

It's like like, how do you take something that you believed your whole life and pick it apart to see is it really real, you know, is it really true, is it really complete? Like that is is scary, to say the least. It's really really scary, you know, because now, all of a sudden, it it deals with, like who you are as a person, and I think that's something that, um, just even in the last year and a half, like I'm currently, I hope, at the bottom of like I don't think, I hope, I hope I don't have to drop even further down from like all of the personal stuff that I'm dealing with in my life, like I hope that I'm at like the worst of the worst and then we're just going to go up from here because I have had to. You know that puzzle analogy, jerry, that you're talking about, it's like for me it's like I'm taking, I'm taking a glass puzzle, right and I'm shattering it myself.

Alisha Coakley:

That's what I feel like. I created this whole glass puzzle. I'm shattering it and now I have to be like what do I need to recreate? What are the most important pieces for me to put back together, to create a whole new puzzle, but that still is really transparent and really honest and really real and solid and that can be like like just a barrier for me. You know, um, I've had and I think maybe this is like something that that we can discuss for a minute too is um?

Alisha Coakley:

Scott, you have five primary questions in your book. Elder Corbidge had four in his talk, jerry mentioned the priesthood, which is not one of the four or the five that we discussed. For me, one of my primary questions was when my brother died, and it was is there really life after death? Like, is there more afterwards?

Alisha Coakley:

And so I think we all kind of have there's some core primary questions, and then there's some primary questions that are individual, right, does heavenly father love me? Could be someone's primary question where it's just knowledge to everybody else, right? And so I think sometimes there's there's additional primary questions that are super, super important to the individual um, and where am I going with this? So I I just I think that, um, when you're, when you're having to ask those and I believe I can't remember which one of you guys said you were talking about needing to be ready to hear the answer from Heavenly Father and to act on the answer, it puts you in a really vulnerable state, and I know one of the questions that I have received answers on it is an answer that I really don't like at all. My answer is basically Heavenly Father saying I trust you figured it out. I'm like what?

Scott Brandley:

That's the answer.

Alisha Coakley:

a lot of times Like I don't like that one at all, because these are like big deals for me, like the things that I'm having struggles with are like really big deals for me for the first time in my life and I'm like all right, well, I hope you're not mad at me when I mess this up. You know what I mean and and I know that, just like you're, you know the 17 year olds that you met at the foundation there are definitely things that I could be doing better, like. There are habits that I could be changing. You know things that I could be doing differently or not doing at all or vice versa, um, that I don't know why it's not changing your behavior.

Alisha Coakley:

For example, we know the word of wisdom is true, right, like. We know the word it's like, meant for our health. Why do we keep gorging ourselves on popcorn and candy and and sodas? And you know what I mean Like, like and don't we feel bad sometimes? I know for me, like, sometimes I I would feel bad going to the temple knowing that I had extra weight on me, especially when I was at my heaviest. You know, knowing that I wasn't really, I mean, I was doing the knots of the word of wisdom Like I wasn't smoking and I wasn't drinking, and yay me, but I wasn't doing the dues, and so was I actually good to go to the temple, you know like that's such a personal thing and and so, anyway, I just think we get all caught up. This is my point, and maybe this goes into, like your last question, that, um, that you had like written down for us, scott, but, um, do you want to, do you want to ask it?

Scott Brandley:

scott, but um, do you want to? Do you want to ask it, or you just want me to skip right? Okay, what would be your advice to those who may be struggling?

Alisha Coakley:

with secondary questions. Yeah, so I mentioned this in another podcast before. There was this talk given a long time ago called all in. They made a podcast out of it. It was this great, everybody was on fire with this talk, right, and? And the preface of it is a family that loses their child and they show up to church the next day or whatever it was Right, you know, and um, and they're all there and they're grieving and it's like how could you do? Like, how could you do this? How can you show up? And the family's reply is because we're all in. We're all in when it comes to the gospel, right, and I have loved that talk forever.

Alisha Coakley:

It has been such a core piece of of my own testimony and I'm growing and doing and serving and I'm at a stage in my life now where I'm starting to see things a little differently and it's almost like I think it's this podcast, I think it's our podcast. Thank you, scott, I think it's this podcast, I think it's our podcast. Thank you, scott, for introducing so many members of the church who are just everyday members of the church, who some of them are not all in yet because that's not where they're at in their journey, but dang it if they aren't trying to be at least halfway in. You know what I mean. Like they're trying and I don't. I don't think that with the gospel it has to be all or nothing. I don't think that's. That's what Heavenly Father expects from us 100% of this life. It's great If we can get that way, because the blessings are immense, you know, like, for us, for posterity, for the world, the blessings are just going to be humongous If we can just be all in a hundred percent of the time.

Alisha Coakley:

But does that mean that we can't still do good if we don't have those secondary answers for our questions? Like, does it mean that even if we don't have all the primary questions answered, that we can't be used by heavenly father? No, of course, it's not what it means. So if you can't answer all of them, answer one, just find one Right and like, stick to it. Like once you know it I think Elder Corbidge talked about that you know like, like, live the testimony that you know, right, don't, don't worry if you don't know all of it, it's okay, just live what you do know. And I feel like everybody, if they truly seek for at least one answer, one primary answer, and it could be. Does heavenly father love me? You know? Do I have a purpose in this life? Is there really a God? Did the savior really atone for my sins?

Scott Brandley:

If you can, answer at least one of them.

Alisha Coakley:

It's okay If you're a hot mess in the 99 other, you know, don't stay there. By any means. Don't stay there. You're going to want to grow and develop and you're going to want to have more questions answered, but don't feel like you have nothing to give just because you don't have all to give. You know, and so that would be my advice is just find the one question you know, just just find the one piece of your testimony and hold on to that.

Alisha Coakley:

And if life gets in the way and agency gets in the way and mistakes get in the way and situations get in the way, like, just hold on to what you know.

Alisha Coakley:

Don't try to don't try to, you know, tear that down and rebuild it when it's already good and functioning and you know. Whatever else, and if it does get torn down, if you do have to pick it apart, don't throw away everything you know. Just because it's shattered doesn't mean it's useless, so don't throw it all away. Go through those pieces, find the ones that are the most important, hold onto them and make sure that you're gluing them back together in something that is going to is going to keep you connected to your heavenly father, cause I think that that, above all, is what I'm learning is I just have to believe and I have to keep communicating with my heavenly father. If nothing else, I can lay out a laundry list of all the things I'm doing wrong and all the things that I have questions on, and all the things that I, you know, like I'm angry about or whatever else, but I still need to talk to him. I still, you know, I still just need to be there and just trust what I already know. So that's my advice.

Scott Brandley:

Don't Well, and I think, I think, if, if and when the world falls around you, which it will multiple times in your life, if you can hold to even one, like you said, even one of those primary questions that you know, that you just know in your heart and soul you can keep going.

Scott Brandley:

Absolutely and the other thing I think that you mentioned that I liked is God wants us to ask questions, so it's okay to have questions that might not be primary questions and, like Elder Corbett says, there are answers to those questions, but they're not as significant as the primary questions and we shouldn't dwell on them or spend a lot of time trying to answer those questions. We should focus our time on answering the main questions, because those are what are going to pull us through, like fred mentioned. So I'd like to get, uh, your guys's thoughts. Um, what would be your advice to those who may be struggling with questions?

Fred Dodini:

Go ahead, fred. Well, as I said before, I guess you know, go to the source. We expect to find answers in books or, you know, in a conference, talk or thing. Those are great resources but ultimately, personal prayer, personal revelation. You know, as Peter was told, when the Savior asked the apostles whom the people thought he was, and they said well, some think you're John the Baptist back to you know, come back to life.

Fred Dodini:

Or Isaiah, or Jeremiah, one of the prophets, and he says who do you say I am Peter's, the one who says thou art the Christ, the son of the living God. And the Savior said flesh and blood has not revealed this to you. Don't rely on flesh and blood for an answer. This can only come from the Spirit. And that's when he changed his name to Peter, which is a reminder that the rock upon which the gospel is built is personal revelation.

Fred Dodini:

It's not Peter, it's not Peter's position in the church, it was his experience. That's what we should all be seeking is that same revelatory experience, because we really can't trust anything else. And when you've had that experience, you never forget it. It leaves an indelible mark of sorts. Bruce Armour Conkey once wrote that he believed the body is the book of life because everything is recorded here on the cells of our body. The concept of cellular memory I'm familiar with it through, you know, as a therapist. People have been through real traumatic experience and stuff. It leaves a mark, it leaves a memory chemically that's recorded in the cells of our body and it's even passed down to the next generation.

Fred Dodini:

Those experiences can change our genetics and we can pass them good or bad, we can pass that on to future generations. So and I thought you know, that's perfect justice. When we stand before the bar of God, we don't need anybody else to testify against us. Our body will. All that information that's stored there will be made manifest. We won't have any excuses. We won't be able to justify anything. Yeah, manifest. We won't have any excuses. We won't be able to justify anything. Yeah, I just think it's.

Fred Dodini:

If we don't rely on personal revelation, if we don't believe that that's possible, you know God's not going to speak to me. I've heard people tell me that. Why do I pray? God's not going to talk to me, I'm not worthy, or whatever else it is. I thought, what makes you different than anybody else? The promise is the same for everyone, even for those who may not be worthy at the moment. If they offer a sincere prayer, they're worthy at that moment and maybe they're prepared to hear and listen. Finally, because they've been humbled because of their sins, because of their weaknesses, and that's what it takes for a lot of us. As the Savior said, I give men weaknesses, so they'll be humble and they'll come unto me. I can turn those weaknesses into strengths, and that's the biggest challenge, I think, for some people is believing that they can receive answers and direction and then have the confidence and the courage to apply them in their lives.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, I think that is a big challenge, especially with the Internet. People are just they're not willing to put trust in God. They're putting trust in the Internet In a false God really Awesome. Thanks, Fred, Jerry. Any thoughts, thoughts, any advice?

Jerry Paskett:

well, and rather than me sharing advice, I would rather share an experience, and that is when you introduced me to the book, when it was in a draft form. Um, I took it to heart and I sat down and I made my own list and, rather than, you know, give advice. I would encourage everybody to sit down and I made my own list and, rather than, you know, give advice. I would encourage everybody to sit down and, as Felicia said, it might be one thing, it might be five I sure wouldn't throw out a whole shopping list but four or five, six, whatever, whatever it means to you, create your list and then have that really deep, honest conversation with just you and with God and say do I really believe in this? And if you do, you will be prepared and you'll be braced when those secondary questions come and, as we've talked about, they won't really matter. Yes, they all have answers and they're all important, but it won't be something that's faith-shaking.

Jerry Paskett:

Scott, I can't tell you how powerful it was and how many times I have seen it since I created my own list, where people get lost in the noise and I start thinking what about the basic questions? What about those principal questions that you ask, you know, is the atonement real? Is God the Father, truly our spiritual Father In my case? What about the priesthood? What about Joseph Smith and the translation of the Book of Mormon? And I think, why are you getting lost in the weeds here? Get back in your lane, answer those questions. So it's not advice, but I would sure encourage people to look at it from that perspective. It can be very very powerful.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, I'll tell you this. There's a book called Jonathan James and the What-If Monster. I love it, it's so cute. It's an Asporn book, look it up, adorable Kid's book. And in the what if monster, I love it, it's so cute, so Asporn book, look it up, adorable kids book. And it's this little kid. He has this what if monster.

Alisha Coakley:

And this little monster is, is next to him all day long, right, and he goes over and he wants to climb a tree. In the what if monster says but wait, what if you fall? And then he wants to go and he wants to, um, maybe go roller skating. And I said, oh, but what if you skin your knee? Or he wants to go say hello to a friend on the playground, but what if they don't like you? And so throughout the first half of this book, you know, jonathan James wants to do these things. But then his little what if monster is so scared he just keeps saying, well, what if this and what if? And it's all negative. And about halfway through Jonathan James looks at the monster and he says you know, halfway through Jonathan James looks at the monster and he says you know well, for example, what if I go over and I I, you know say hi to this guy, and what if monsters? Oh what if he hates you and he's like? What if he's my very best friend? You know what if I climb the street? What if it's the most amazing experience ever? What if I get a view of the whole town up there? You know what if I end up saving this kitten's life and then it comes home and I have a pet forever? What if it? You know, the food that I just tasted is so delicious and you know it just makes me super happier. And so he kind of counteracts the negative what ifs with the positive. You know, like, well, what if it's something good? I think sometimes when we don't have the answers to questions, we get so caught in the negative what ifs or the negative answers that we forget there could be a whole different perspective. That's good.

Alisha Coakley:

Um, I loved that Molly Bonner when he made the movie great, uh, green flake, uh, which is amazing. It's go watch it. It's, um, about the first enslaved, um, black Elliot, like one of the first black, uh, members of the church that like went across. So how did we do this? Anyway, my name is green flick, that's the name of the movie and it's really good and it's about, um, like slave LDS members who were black and it was like early parts of the church and it's super controversial. And he talks about, um, the statement.

Alisha Coakley:

There's a quote by Joseph Smith that makes Joseph Smith sound really racist, right, even though, like, he loved the people that were employed with him, you know whatever else. And, uh, and Joseph Smith makes a comment to was it Abram? I can't remember his name now, but anyway, he makes a comment to another black member of the church and, um, and he doesn't want to say this thing, he's writing up a draft or something like that. He doesn't want to say this quote because this, this draft, is going to go out to predominantly a white population, um, and he's trying to get like freedom, like he's trying to like help, like make slaves free, essentially give, to give them some rights. And Joseph Smith doesn't want to write this.

Alisha Coakley:

But the black member of the church says to him um, something about you need to put it in a language that they're going to agree with. So it's something like you want to keep them together, like keep their own people together, so they're not mingling with us. So it sounds super racist, but the perspective that he is anyway is so different. It's almost like if the goal is freedom, maybe you need to put your words into a way that makes the audience that you're listening to be on your side, like they're doing it for the wrong reasons, but you're getting the right result you know type of thing and it's just it was interesting because I heard that in that movie and I was like he does it so much more eloquently than I did and and um, and it was just one of those moments where, like what, if there's perspective?

Alisha Coakley:

And then I thought of the story of um, like when, uh guys, this is the most common story ever. Who denied Christ three times? Peter, yes, peter, uh. So they're sitting at the last supper right and Christ says before the, he says to Peter, he says, before the cock crows three times, you're going to deny me Right. And everyone in Peter says, okay, I would never do. You know, whatever, I'm not going to do that. The next thing, you know, the cock crows three times and Peter's like, oh my gosh, I just did it. You always look at it like, oh, maybe Peter was really scared and he didn't want to get caught, and you know he was just wimping out and whatever else.

Alisha Coakley:

What if, when Christ told Peter before the cock crows are going to deny me three times? What if that was a commandment and not a premonition or a forecasting right? What if he said I need you to deny me three times for the plan to move forward? Now, what would your perspective be of Peter? I don't want to do that, but I was given a commandment to do that. Now, I don't know if that's what happened.

Alisha Coakley:

I don't think any of us do. All we have is what was said by Christ and what was done by Peter, but we don't have the context behind that. And so when I think about that, I think about how many other things do we not have all the story for? And is there a way that I can look at something that I don't know and I say there's a perspective out there that can still make this true and good. There's something out there that I don't know yet. Is there something out there there has to be? I don't know anything about the universe, you know there's so much stuff. I don't know what makes me think that I'm going to have all this figured out.

Alisha Coakley:

Right, you can use that for good or evil, but that's just my second advice. It's just remember that there's a perspective. Ask yourself. Second advice is just remember that there's a perspective. Ask yourself what if? What if there's something good here? What if you know what I mean? What if there's a perspective that I've never considered before, that changed the whole meaning to the story or the question, or the scripture, or the experience you know?

Scott Brandley:

yeah, well, that's good and especially with everything that's online today, there's a lot of perspectives we don and we don't know what we can trust, but we can trust the prophet, we can trust the scriptures and we can trust that God's going to give us answers to our prayers. Like you guys said, if we stick to that and stick to these primary questions, the most important questions of the gospel, we're going to be okay and I don't think Satan's going to be able to pull us away. Fred.

Fred Dodini:

Have any of you had questions that you have been praying about for decades and you never felt like you've really gotten a clear answer to yet?

Jerry Paskett:

Yeah.

Fred Dodini:

Do you, would you mind sharing?

Alisha Coakley:

I don't know Well yeah, I don't know decades. I'm only like 20 something years old, ongoing yeah.

Fred Dodini:

You're 20 something again you're 20 something again, I know because I think there are a lot of those kinds of questions that are relevant to us, very personal questions often times, and the Lord doesn't always give us the answers.

Fred Dodini:

You know, I've had a few of those questions and it's been 50 something years that I've been waiting for the answer and it still hasn't really clearly come yet. And you know, I just got to a point where I said, well, okay, in time, maybe on the other side of the veil I'll get the explanation, but for now I can live with not knowing. Yeah, and sometimes we have to be able to tolerate that ambiguity of not knowing, but hold on to the things that we do.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, yeah, I should say I think a lot of those questions, fred, are like why did this happen to me? Or to them, right, it's? It's more of like well, if God's a loving God, why would this happen? You know, I think that's the ones that are the most difficult. It's usually not like about, you know, the, the political topics in the church, although those are hot topics and people can get heated from it. I think it's more of like the when bad things happen to good people, like how, why? You know those are hard.

Scott Brandley:

And those usually don't get answered in this life. I was going to say something similar. Yeah, Well, cool you guys. This has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming on and hanging out with me and Alisha. Well, Alisha, thanks for coming in.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, so um really appreciate all of you guys' thoughts and and input and inspiration and your friendship. It's awesome to be able to hang out with you again and and get to know you a little bit better and to have you be able to share with us. Before I wrap things up, go check out Dr Dodini's book shine brighter right, that's the name of the book. Yeah and Jerry, you don't have a book, do you?

Jerry Paskett:

No, no, no, no, just lots of stories. I actually have been thinking, as it's all developed, um, as everything's unfolding, I've actually been thinking about putting it all together, but I don't know how to do that. But I'm trying to figure that out.

Fred Dodini:

Okay, I would like to hear about your near-death experience sometime. I've interviewed several people who have had near-death experiences and read a lot of books about them. I'm always interested in hearing other people's experiences along that line.

Jerry Paskett:

I'm happy to talk about it there you go.

Scott Brandley:

Before you close Scott, I'm happy to talk about it.

Jerry Paskett:

Well, there you go. Before you close, scott, I'm going to give you a shameless plug for your book. The first time I read it was as a favor to you. I wanted to read it, but then I turned around and I read it a second time, and just for all of your listeners as this unfolds. It's an amazing work. It's written on a very, very grassroots level to where, you know, simple-minded people such as myself understand it and grasp it easily. I never, ever, felt like I was being preached to. I was just being talked to and you were just sharing and the insight that you gave so to to the listeners. It's well worth. I think it ought to be in every home possible. I agree. Basic and pure.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, it can be in every home possible because Scott with his big, huge Canadian American heart, is giving it away for free.

Alisha Coakley:

So you guys, he, just he has been nine years putting this book together, mind you, nine years, right Longer than I have been legally allowed to drive a car now, and he is 20 ish something carno and he is a 20-ish something and he has put so much time and energy and money into it and when he told me that he was giving away for free, I'm like there you go again, scott being amazing, so I we will have links to how you can do all that kind of stuff in the show notes there's so many links in the show notes, you're just going to spend all day going in the show notes, that's okay, yeah, they'll have fun doing it.

Scott Brandley:

I'll read it.

Alisha Coakley:

It's an awesome book, Scott. You did such a great job putting it together.

Jerry Paskett:

You did yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

It took me way longer to read because there were so many things in there. I was like, wait, what? Okay, let's stop and think about this. You know like, wow, you know like, just wrapping my mind around the whole concept, I know a lot of serious.

Jerry Paskett:

How'd you figure that out? And there it is, right there in front of you. Scott's got it figured out. I'm like wow.

Alisha Coakley:

Like I don't have to do nothing, I just have to let Scott go.

Scott Brandley:

I spent a lot of time pondering and researching and thinking and praying. You can tell it's been a hard process to put it all together, but I'm just glad it's done.

Alisha Coakley:

I'll put a plug in for Clarissa too. She designed the book cover Right, and so I know there was like a picture that you guys kind of liked and she kind of like took inspiration from that, and Clarissa is just an amazing artist, which is Scott's daughter, his oldest daughter, and it's just beautiful. I keep telling her she just needs to. She just needs to like create prints that could be sold and give them that cover, because it's a great cover to the books too. So tell her she's awesome.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah. So for those of you that are listening, you can go to faithtostaycom, which is the name of the book, and you can get the free digital version, which is a full version. It's got lots of pictures and things in there, and you can also get the free audio version of the book. And I'm also giving away as a gift the actual digital art. So the picture on the front. It's called Take my Hand and I'll put a picture on the front. It's called take my hand and I'll put a picture on here, but essentially it's Christ reaching out in a storm to grab your hand, to, to bring you in in and save you, and it's very striking, it's, it's an amazing picture, and so I'm giving that away. It's for free as well, and that's the high resolution version. So you can make 16 by 20 prints if you want to, or as small as five by seven, and you can make those for your kids, for your grandkids.

Scott Brandley:

The whole reason I wrote this book is because I felt inspired by God to write it, and so I'm not trying to make money on it, I'm just trying to help people, because that's what I feel like I was meant to write it for, and I do have it on Amazon if somebody wants a print copy, but I basically put it pretty much at cost Any profits that are made from the book on Amazon. I'm donating to the Markovia project, which anybody that's followed the podcast knows that background of that story it's. It's another couple that we had on the podcast and they started a nonprofit in Markovia, honduras, and they're helping kids go to school, get an education, and they started micro loans to help families to support their kids. So it's just a fun organization. But anyway, yeah, go check it out.

Scott Brandley:

Faith to saycom. It's awesome and thanks again for you guys coming on the show and thanks, jerry for the kind words I really appreciate it and Alisha and we will be back with part three next week, so tune into that and we will talk to you then. Until then, take care bye.

People on this episode

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Scott Brandley

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Alisha Coakley

Co-host