LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Having Faith to Stay with Carter Ellis & Jon Coakley (Faith to Stay Part 5 of 5) - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley

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When trials get steep and hope runs thin, what keeps you hanging on to faith?

This Sunday, our 5-part “Faith to Stay” miniseries reaches its finale with a candid round-table discussion on “Enduring to the End.” Latter-Day Lights hosts Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley welcome viral missionary Carter Ellis, and faith-forged father Jon Coakley—to unpack why staying aboard the gospel “ship” matters more than ever.

From Carter’s galvanizing testimony that ignited social-media firestorms, to Jon’s revelation on Christ always walking beside the weary, each story pulls back the curtain on what faith looks like when life won’t let up, why admitting “spiritual fatigue” isn’t failure, and how remembering our divine lineage reframes every setback.

If you’ve ever felt the jaws of doubt closing in—this conversation will remind you that enduring doesn’t mean clinging by sheer willpower; it’s learning to reach back for the Savior who never quits on you.

*** Please SHARE Carter & Jon's stories and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode, visit: https://youtu.be/KKRk5-UW1A8

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To READ Scott’s book “Faith to Stay,” visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

To WATCH Jon's episode, visit: https://youtu.be/KUpPMTF0Zxk

To READ Carter's viral post, visit: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRzNioKl8Uj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=a2ZzOXJ0NGI3OWtt


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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

Alisha Coakley:

Hi everyone, I'm Alisha Coakley.

Scott Brandley:

And I'm Scott Brandley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Alisha Coakley:

On today's episode we're going to discuss why having the faith to stay and keeping an eternal perspective will help us to endure to the end. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We are on our fifth and final episode for our launching of Scott's book, the Faith to Stay. Oh, we are so excited, guys. We have a special treat today we have Carter Ellis. Carter was actually included in Scott's book towards the very end, and so he's going to share a little bit more about his story and just kind of how that happened. And then, of course, we are welcoming back my husband, Jon, to the show to discuss a little bit more about Scott's book, and then, of course, just the faith to stay and all the things that go along with it. So we're super, super excited to welcome you guys, and I know Scott is in the passenger seat Normally he's here in this position, but welcome everyone.

Jon Coakley:

Oh hey, it's good to be here. Thank you Good to be here. Thank you Good to be here. A whole one-room way.

Alisha Coakley:

We are one-room way. That's very true.

Scott Brandley:

This is kind of fun, though, Jon, because you are our second guest on our podcast.

Alisha Coakley:

And.

Scott Brandley:

Alisha was actually the first guest, I was yeah, it's kind of all coming back around Wow.

Alisha Coakley:

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, kind of all coming back around so interesting, and then we're just gonna have to have Carter come on to be our next guest and just share a whole long hour episode. That's what I think We'll see if I do good enough. Baton over to you for a second. Why don't you kind of get us started on how you'd like this discussion to go today?

Scott Brandley:

Sure. So this is going to be kind of a unique episode, because usually we have somebody come on and share their story Carter, to give you some background there. But what I was hoping we could do in this episode is have you share your story but then also talk about having the faith to stay, because the story you're going to share has that as the topic. But that happens to also be the name of my book and it was the idea that I had behind it. So I'm thinking that you can kind of share your story, which is really cool. Then we'll just talk about faith in general and see where it goes from there. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, Carter, to start off, before we jump into your story?

Carter Ellis:

Perfect. My name is Carter into your story. Perfect, so my name is Carter, I am 23 and I got back from my mission serving in Antofagasta, chile, exactly two years ago today. I was on the drive home. It's got a funny timing with it too. Yeah, two years ago I walked in the airport and said hello to my family again, so that was kind of interesting reflecting on my drive home from St George today, just like everything that's happened in the last two years, I'm studying up at Utah State right now. I completed my exercise science degree this year and then I applied to medical school this next summer. Big, crazy things ahead for me school this next summer.

Scott Brandley:

So big, crazy things ahead for me. Yeah, I can't believe it's been two years Cause the first time I heard your story was you were on your mission. Yeah, that was like three years ago.

Carter Ellis:

Probably time flies, doesn't it? That's crazy.

Alisha Coakley:

That's cool. Yeah, Tell us what. Where do you start? Where's your story?

Carter Ellis:

start. Tell us what? Where do you start? Where's your story start? Yeah, so it's interesting. Lots of people don't know this part about it, but I actually made, like, my little post that I made. I was in the MTC the online MTC at the time. So I started my mission in, let's see, july of 2021.

Carter Ellis:

And during the time that, like I was in the online MTC, there was this kind of interesting little like ripple effect where I had a bunch of friends from high school that started making these Instagram posts of like why they were choosing to leave the church, and so there was one that did it, and then I was like, oh wow, like I've never really seen this before. And then that turned into two and three and four and it just kind of, you know, created this momentum of people being like this is my time that I can announce my decision to leave. And so during that time, we were in the MTC and they were talking about the power of sharing with your testimony on Facebook and social media, because that was starting to be a big push in the missionary department during COVID, because everything was still kind of like starting to wrap up with COVID, but in a lot of areas it was still really full force. And so I remember I, as I was in the MTC and they were talking about this, I like had this, I had this prompting that I'm like you should make a post about why you choose to stay in the church. And I'm like, okay, this is kind of different, you know, cause I didn't, I didn't want to come on too strong and be that guy, you know that was trying to like, you know, like, bash people or anything, cause I, you know, I still like, I still cared about them. You know, as like, as people that I knew and were friends with from high school. But you know, I'm like, well, if you're, if you're choosing to share why you're going to leave them, why can't I choose to share why I'm going to stay?

Carter Ellis:

And so I had this, this thought, and I, I kind of took it and ran with it and I, I was at dinner, um, and I I shared this, this post that I made on on Instagram, and then I shared it on Facebook and, um, I, that was that I went to dinner and I remember I actually I said a little prayer afterwards being like, please help this to go over. Well, you know, and I'm like did like let this help whoever needs to help but, at the same time, help it to not. You know what I mean. I don't want to come on in the wrong way. And so I went and ate dinner and, um, it was like like a couple hours later, all of a sudden, my phone started blowing up with notifications. I'm like what the heck is going on? And then I looked at it and, um, lots of people started liking it. And then people started sharing it on their stories on Instagram.

Carter Ellis:

Um, and then, um, that was from the Instagram side, but on the Facebook side, something a little bit different happened. Um, and this is where things really kind of get interesting. So on Facebook it actually I I don't think this happened until maybe like the next day, but it actually got shared in two of these big ex-Mormon Facebook groups. Real reason where it started to go viral, I guess you could say, is people started coming from those ex-Mormon Facebook groups to go attack me in my comment section of my Facebook post and then like, so people really started sharing it, maybe for not the best reasons that way, but then it led to tons of people seeing it, and so then, after it got shared there a bunch of like return missionaries came and saw those sections, like saw the post in my comment section like the anti post, and then they started responding to that and then it kind of became World War III in my comment section on Facebook of that. So people bashed each other of that.

Alisha Coakley:

So people bashed each other and you know I like.

Carter Ellis:

But like it's funny because heavenly father literally used all things to his good, totally so that facebook kind of exploded. And then, when facebook exploded, instagram really exploded after that too, and where the facebook one, there was kind of a lot of like, maybe like pushback from the other side on it. The the instagram one was overwhelmingly positive.

Carter Ellis:

Um, on the response for and so I kind of looked at it as like instagram kind of took off and then facebook really took off for maybe the wrong reason, which led to instagram taking off for really the right reason yeah so it's kind of cool the way that that happened.

Carter Ellis:

And yeah, I actually um. I was like three, four days into it and then I got a call from um, the director of social media for the missionary department too, and he called me and was like we just want you to know that the church is aware of um, of your like, of your post, and that, like, you have our support. That was kind of cool too, wow that's cool, yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

So, scott, do you? Do you want to read what he wrote, or do you want carter to read it?

Scott Brandley:

or I mean, I have it pulled up too, if someone else does yeah, well, I think it'd be good for him to read it, because he's the one that wrote it yeah, do you have it?

Carter Ellis:

yeah, yeah, I can I can absolutely do that. Let me pull it up quick. Yeah, um, so this is what I said. I said I've seen a lot of posts lately from people talking about their individual decisions to leave the church. I guess I feel like this is as good a time as any to share my decision to stay.

Carter Ellis:

I'm a member, member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's not a club, it's not a fraternity, it's not just some organization with crazy rules meant to restrict my freedom. It's not a buffet to pick and choose which principles you want to believe and which ones you want to throw in the trash. This is a gospel. This is a plan. This is happiness. This is the truth. It's all or nothing.

Carter Ellis:

I want to share a little bit of my perspective on the word freedom. It seems like the moment people leave the church, one of the first things everyone says is something like I've never felt more free. Interestingly, I can't think of a time in my life where I felt more free than right now, serving as a missionary for this church, Ironically with more rules placed upon me than I have ever had. But I think I feel free for some different reasons Free from sin through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Free from guilt because the rules I have for my health help me stay clean. Free from sorrow because I know that I'm going to see and I mentioned some names of my friends from high school that had passed away that year Again someday. Free from confusion because of a living prophet who gives us direction on where we need to go.

Carter Ellis:

This gospel is a gift. Our ancestors walked thousands of miles through icy rivers and snowy plains, leaving footprints of blood and many giving their lives along the way. Why? Because they knew this gospel is true. They wouldn't have given up what they did if it wasn't. I also know that it's true that Joseph Smith really saw what he said. He saw that the Book of Mormon is true, that God lives, that he loves each and every one of us, that this path is true. It's the only way. It's for everyone Stay wow, so good.

Alisha Coakley:

I really love that your story your background story adds actually quite a bit of context to the story that I didn't even know yeah, and I think, especially with social media, like I, like I too, I had a lot of friends who, um, they, they really did feel like it had to be all or nothing, you know. So if they had any doubts or they had any disagreements or whatever else, they were just like, well, that's it, I'm just throwing the baby out with the bathwater and they would leave. And then they got really um, active on social media about, like, if they leave, they leave loudly and they don't stop talking, like they talk more about the church after they leave than they did when they were actually like ingrained in it and stuff like that. And it's like what is going on here. So I feel like, around that same time, it just became really popular, right, like it became very trendy to be like, ooh, we're not in the church anymore and and and I mean it's one of Satan's many tools right To to make everything look greener on the other side or whatever else Um, and with social media, people can be really really loud.

Alisha Coakley:

So I think it's cool that you were able to you know, lovingly, but also in you know a loud way, proclaim your opinion and your faith and you didn't you didn't like attack anyone else for their decision to leave. You were just simply stating you know why you're staying, so yeah, I, I also.

Carter Ellis:

I I'll add a little bit of clarification on it too. One of the things that I've I've gotten a lot of since then, um, is people kind of think that when I said it's all or nothing, but I'm saying it's all or nothing as far as you have to have a testimony of every single part in order to be a member, and that is not at all what I meant by that. The all or nothing part of my post was 100%, that the truth of the church is all or nothing. That it's either 100% true as far as the doctrine of our church and that joseph really did see this, or it's 100, a lie, and there's no, there's no room for.

Carter Ellis:

This is just a good church that, you know like, may or may not be. Some parts of it true, some parts, not. That the part of our church that makes it so powerful is the fact that our claim of the truthfulness of the gospel and being Jesus Christ church is so bold. Um and but I think that sometimes people use the term all or nothing to be like well, yeah, like, I can be in the church and still struggle with, you know like, having temptations and I can. I can stay in the church and still, you know, struggle with not understanding certain parts of it. And, of course, you can like none of us have a hundred percent like knowledge of everything, or else there would be no need for faith. Right, that's what it says in the book of Mormon. But as far as the church being true in itself, I think that is the thing that people need to remember that, regardless of the individual challenges that each and every one of us have, the church itself and the doctrine of it is still 100% true, if that makes sense, yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

So, Jon, what did you think hearing? I mean cause you hadn't had a chance to read that post or anything. What did you think of of Carter's post?

Jon Coakley:

Yeah, I think it's a really good way to put it out there and just basically say like the same, as you know, like in the New Testament, you know people wouldn't have died in you know crazy ways for Jesus if it wasn't true. You know, the same way that the saints, you know, like you said, they left the bloody footprints, like they had the faith, like they knew for sure, like this is a real thing, this is a real prophet that we're following, and they, they gave their blood for it and their lives and their property. You know they, they gave everything. So, yeah, I think that was a really good way to put it.

Scott Brandley:

So the way I heard about it, it as it went viral. Not only did it go viral on social media, but I heard about it from somebody quoting your post in a sacrament meeting talk in my ward and I was I was writing my book at the time and it just rang true to me and it fits so well into my book that I actually reached out to you and asked you if I could include your post in my book. And I actually included it in the final chapter of my book because it's such a good summary of faith and and my book title is faith to stay, and the last thing you said in your, in your thing, was to stay, and so it was really cool to to be able to hear your story and and include it in my book. So what's kind of what's been the aftermath of that post? What has happened since then?

Carter Ellis:

Yeah, it's, it's been kind of kind of crazy, like the like how, how far it has stretched.

Carter Ellis:

Some of I've had some super cool experiences of people from all around the world.

Carter Ellis:

I'm reaching out to me and and sharing how, you know, it helped them feel the spirit, um, and I I love I love putting it that way and the things that they shared with me too, cause I I don't believe that there's anything like particularly special about what I said, but I think it was really cool how, like I guess, heavenly Father was able to use the words that I said to be able to touch people in different ways, and so I've had people from all around the world.

Carter Ellis:

I had one person reach out to me that said that they were, you know, a former MTC teacher and that they had stopped going to church and had been like six years and that, like, reading my post was the first time that they felt the spirit since then and that they were going to go, you know, like, go back to the church that next week. And so it's just super cool, like to hear the stories of different people and you know, there's always a little bit of backlash that happens, you know, from different people, but overwhelmingly like the thing that kept me going with all of it and making me feel so, so happy that I decided to to click the post button was hearing all those stories of people and how they were able to fill the spirit with it.

Alisha Coakley:

That's cool, that's really cool. Thank you, by the way, carter, for for sharing that backstory and everything with us and and for creating the post, for following the spirit. And you know, you, just you really don't know how far reaching that is. And, in the same light, scott, you, you have no idea how far reaching your book is going to going to be either. You know, like we just launched it I say we, like I did something, I was moral support thing no, you launched it with an opportunity for everybody to get it for free. They can get the. The um downloadable version for free is audio version. Two, I can't remember Yep Audio and downloadable version for free.

Alisha Coakley:

And if you order the book online at faithstostaycom or on Amazon, uh, the proceeds actually go to the Markovia project. So you quite literally, are giving everything away. And on top of it, the artwork, like so beautiful, I just I love your, your image on your cover of your book. Um, you're giving that away for free, like the downloadable version of that too, so people can just print it off and use it wherever they need to or however they need to. Um, so I'm really excited to kind of start seeing the, the effects of where your book is going. But let's talk about, let's talk about that faith to say cause that it feels like such a simple thing to say. Because that it feels like such a simple thing to say, right, but what do you? I guess, what would you say to someone who is really in the deepest depths of they don't know how they're going to stay?

Jon Coakley:

Yeah, somebody who's like in the worst moments, like down in the ditches, yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

Because it seems I mean, it seems easy to just be like well, just stay. And they're like, but I'm drowning here. You know, I'm interested to hear what y'all have to say on that.

Scott Brandley:

I think the most important thing you can do is just take one more step, and without giving up Right. One of the stories that I share in the book is when Joseph Smith was in Liberty jail and I did a lot of research into that time when he was in that in that prison, and the temperatures during the those times were pretty much 40 or below. For the whole time they were in there it was it was freezing cold every day and they were in the basement of this prison.

Scott Brandley:

it must have been a horrible, miserable experience, especially when you consider that the saints were. They had just um, put in the execution order for all the saints and they didn't know what was happening with their families. Everything was just crazy and um, I remember researching that and just putting myself in in their position. They're, they were in a prison, everything was falling apart around them. They didn't know what was happening to their family and loved ones, and it could have been a make or break moment for them. And but rather than give up, you know, joseph Smith took one more little step in the dark and he prayed to Heavenly Father, asking for help, and he got an answer from Christ saying that everything would be okay. And I think that was a good example. That's why I use it in the book.

Scott Brandley:

But we all have those moments in our lives where we just think it can't get any worse and it's easy to blame God. It's easy to. Well, you're kind of going through that, Alisha, right now with your mom right, like she's not doing good, and or with your brother when your brother passed away in that car accident. Yeah, you could have easily blamed God and cursed god and and left the church and you know like. But you have to take that one more step and just not give up, and you'll find that he's there in that, in that darkness, waiting to, to light your way to the next step yeah and that's just how it works, unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like that, right?

Scott Brandley:

Yep, yeah, and that's just how it works.

Carter Ellis:

Unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like that. There's a. I'm trying to remember where this is in the new Testament, but I remember like there's this moment where, like Christ is he kind of asked his his apostles, apostles, will you now also go away, um?

Alisha Coakley:

and then peter says um to who where would you go?

Carter Ellis:

where would we go? That has the words of eternal life, and I think of that. I think I that's what really comes to my mind when I think of this is there's a lot of verbiage in the church that we use that I think we have to be careful about when we talk about, like, maybe, when someone that like we have, like Alisha, that is close to us, passes away. I think lots of times we use this phrase of God took this person, and people use that as a way of trying to comfort someone else. But I also think that when we talk like that, it can also make people feel like God is doing this thing to you, and so the way to retaliate is to leave God, when in reality, that's not really how it works at all.

Carter Ellis:

It's life itself isn't fair and we are put through this life to be tempted and to be tried and to go through all these hard things in the process of trying to become more like the Savior right, and so when those things happen and they would happen whether we're in the church or we're not in the church, because that is the whole purpose of this life the ultimate source of comfort is God.

Carter Ellis:

So retaliating against God by leaving the church is leaving the very person that is most able to give you comfort in that moment. I think people look at the church as like this restrictive wall, and I look at the church more as like a boat, and this boat is led by Jesus Christ at the steering wheel and it's on its way to the celestial kingdom the steering wheel and it's on its way to the celestial kingdom. And not everything on the boat is easy. But choosing to leave the church is like jumping off the boat, thinking you're going to get to shore more easily, swimming in the ocean and staying on the boat that's going towards the celestial kingdom, you know. So that's kind of how I look at it.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit of uh, there's a, there's a part where Scott talks about, like sometimes we forget that this life is meant to be a struggle, Like it's a test it's. It's meant to be hard in some, in some way, shape or form, you know, and it doesn't mean that it's bad just because it's hard or because there's a struggle, it just means that it's something that that has to happen, you know. Um, Jon, what do you think?

Jon Coakley:

Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you know, scott, you're talking about, you know, just having to take that one last step and, um, you know, at one point I was having a pretty bad day and I'd say probably one of the worst, one of the worst days like of my life. Right, and I, you know, just a few few days later, you know, when I could pull myself together, you know, I was just sitting in the car and just trying to talk to God and to listen and I I felt I felt alone and I felt like, you know, god was ignoring me, but like I know that's, I know that's not true, but and, uh, you know, I finally, you know, was able to get out of the car and I had to go to Walmart and I had to, you know, get some stuff and it was really dusty out, winds blowing, bad weather, like couldn't see very far, like a literal storm right and, um, like I just am walking and I kind of like I'm just feeling so down and feeling like God is like left me, right, and then he's just like just letting me run through this and I feel like to my back right and my shoulder like a, like a presence Right, and so, like you know, I look and of course there's there's nothing there, you know. And um, as I'm walking, like I'm like what is this presence that I'm feeling? Like right behind me, like on my right shoulder, like, you know, just just behind me, and um, you know, I realized, like I'm like, is this the Holy Spirit? Like you know what, what is this? Like it doesn't feel evil, doesn't feel bad, but I realized that like it's Christ walking with me, like almost like in the you know, the poem, the footprints like you know, in the worst times I cared them, the footprints. Like you know, in the worst times I cared.

Jon Coakley:

But you know, I was having even a hard time walking into the store just to do something basic every day. You know that I was struggling with and, um, I just felt him just walking with me and it felt like it was just. It tied me back to the garden of Gethsemane where he was suffering, and he was just there with me and I felt almost like I went through time with him. Where he's in the garden. He's literally walking right behind me as he's in the garden and I'm going through this awful, awful time.

Jon Coakley:

I feel like he's abandoned me but then again, like he's right there with me, walking, can feel his presence, I feel him right behind me, and so I feel that, like, just taking those next steps, and you know, like eventually, like you know, god will come, like you know god will come back around, christ will come back around, and um, yeah, I honestly have to say like it was, it was comforting, but you know, I was still in the midst of it, I was still still in in such a hard place and such a hard time just trying to go to a grocery store. You know, like, um, so, yeah, just taking those next steps, like, even if it's the baby step, just getting out of the car, just moving, um and I, I felt like he was there, just standing by me, just saying I'm going to go through this with you, like I'm not going to go through this for you, but I'm going to go through this with you. I'm right here, right in your right shoulder, supporting you.

Alisha Coakley:

Thanks for sharing that. Thanks for sharing that. I remember when I was 13,. That was the first time that I ever read the scripture that was given to Joseph Smith when, but, um, I'll just read one of the verses it's it's verse seven, and this was the one that had such an impact on me when I was just a teenager and I was going through a lot of stuff. I had a lot of um just family drama and at the time I was, I was um dealing with sexual abuse that had been happening to me and, uh, there was just a lot of a lot of darkness and heaviness in my life. And I had uh been challenged by a young woman leader, sister white. I love her, she's like my favorite um to really to really read the doctrine and covenants and to like learn more about the history of the saints in the early church and stuff like that. And most of it was kind of boring to me, Granted, as a teenager I was like I didn't understand everything, but I got to this and I was so proud because I was already in section 122.

Alisha Coakley:

And, and I wasn't looking for anything in particular and I hadn't necessarily felt anything overpowering through all the other sections, but I got here and I read this verse and it says it's it's one 22, verse seven. It says and if thou should speak, cast into the pit or into the hands of murderers and the sentence of death passed upon me. If thou be cast into the deep, if the billowing surge conspire against the, if fierce winds become thine enemy, if the heavens gather blackness and all the elements combined to hedge up the way, and, above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give the experience and be for thy good. And in that moment I that's how I felt I felt like the very jaws of hell were just gaping their mouth open after me. I was like what am I supposed to do with my life with all of this kind of stuff? And I felt like I had no control over things. And in the last little bit, just in our family, we've had, aside from my mom, we've had some other things going on.

Alisha Coakley:

That definitely I think I can talk to the, to the, to Jon too, where both of us are feeling like the jaws of hell are gaping wide open, you know, after us again, and it's like holy cow, what do we do? You know? Like, how do we, how do we stay? I don't want to say we're in a faith crisis, cause I we've talked about this a lot. It's not that our testimonies have changed at all, it's that our um I don't even know how to explain it I I feel like it's this extreme fatigue has fallen over us in trying to keep going, you know.

Alisha Coakley:

And so there are, there are many Sundays where we're like we have to be adults and we have to set a good example for our kids. So we're going to church and that is it, like we're not getting anything out of it, because we're just so in our hole at the moment you know what I mean Like we're so in our dark spots at the moment. But I hold on to this scripture still to this day, from the time I was 13 to now that I'm 23, maybe a little older than 23. I don't know. Anyway, I still hold on to this and I think it's okay. This is going to give me experience. It's going to be for my good. Heavenly father has promised us time and time and time and time again everything can be worked out for our good, so I just have to hold onto that and for me, if I can't hold onto anything else, I'm going to hold onto that promise because so far he has made everything work out to my good the death of my brother, me getting leukemia, being sexually abused, losing my mom, now watching my mom go through her own battle with alcoholism and you know just the drama that happened in my family and stuff like one of the things that was a huge strain in our life and our family's life was my older sister.

Alisha Coakley:

My older sister ran away when she was 15, got pregnant, had, you know, kid after kid with different guys and got really bad into meth and just had this life where got pregnant, had, you know, kid after kid with different guys and got really bad into meth and just had this life where I mean, she literally died a few times and had to be brought back because of overdosing and um, and she so proud of her. Two weeks ago, um, she just got rebaptized, you know, and she had been excommunicated for almost 30 years and for my dad to be able to baptize her was like this crazy experience, because he had been out of the church for such a long time too and had had his own struggles For my mom being able to be there before she passes and to witness that. You know, it was just like it was just one of those things where it's just one more thing that heavenly father has said hey, look, now she's got a story. Now her testimony is going to be more solid than it ever has been, you know. And it's crazy to me to think that my sister of all people is more spiritually in tune right now than anyone else in our family. You know what I mean. Like she loves church and she's doing Relief Society and she was so excited because she got to go to Young Women's Camp as a leader and she'd never been. She'd never been to Young Women's Camp as a teenager because she ran away so early.

Alisha Coakley:

And it's just crazy, you know. And so in those moments for me and what I would tell people who are going through it, who are in that pit of despair and that mouth of hell is gaped open wide after them, just trust that Heavenly Father will work it to your good, trust it and also don't put so much pressure on yourself to be perfect through it. Like you can be ugly in front of the Savior. You know you can be sloppy. You can be a big old hot mess. You can do things really, really poorly. Who was it that? Um, was it an apostle or a prophet? Said something about like if you can't stay on the straight and narrow, at least cross it a few times you know conference yeah right, Exactly so.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, well, I mean, I think faith is a good thing, it's what keeps us going, but our faith, it is meant to be tested, and we don't get witnesses without our faith. We don't see the miracles without exercising our faith, like we. It's something beautiful that we get to keep and grow, but it's also something that pushes us to our limits sometimes. Yes, very much so, so that it can increase.

Scott Brandley:

And it's kind of this back and forth battle our whole lives. I think one of the reasons why I wrote this book is just to help people get a different perspective on it, because I don't think that I'm going to all of a sudden somebody's going to read the book and be like, oh, you've solved the faith problem. I don't think that's the thing, but I do feel like it's good to have some different perspectives on faith and I feel like God's given me quite a few of those unique perspectives that I was able to put together in a certain way that could give people perspective on faith.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, scott, will you share a little bit and I don't want to give too many teasers and all that kind of stuff, but I know one of the things that I really loved was when you talked about your father-in-law. You talked about, you know, when he was passing away and everything like that and just sort of what, the like why is it so important for us to endure to the end? And you know, can you kind of just share a little bit about that story and about, like, why you, you feel like it's it's so important for each of us to just keep, keep going?

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, he, he was an amazing guy, um, and he was always helping people. He, he was the salt of the earth. Ever since I had ever met him, he was just always serving other people and he, he would serve them physically, like he was a builder and and a teacher, so he was a principal of a high school and then and um, but then he also, like, would renovate people's homes and things. Ever since the time I, ever since I knew him, and years before that, he would just go and help people. And what I realized in writing after, like, reflecting on his life, was he was.

Scott Brandley:

He wasn't just helping people to to fix their homes or renovate their homes, he was. He was there for God. He was. He was there teaching people what Christlike love truly was through his actions and just the type of person that he was, and he influenced so many people. The day of his funeral, the chapel was packed and he was just from a tiny little town in Alberta, Canada. He was just from a tiny little town in Alberta, canada, but you, just everyone there you just knew in your heart that he had impacted them in a way that was on a deep spiritual level, even if he never talked to them about the church.

Jon Coakley:

Yeah.

Scott Brandley:

And it was through the type of life that he lived.

Scott Brandley:

He, you know, he just he lived that Christlike life and he just impacted so many people's lives just because of who he was as a person.

Scott Brandley:

And so, as we try to to live our lives in a Christlike way, we don't know who, who we're impacting. You know, the people that we see at work, the we know we're having an impact sometimes because, like, they won't swear around us and stuff. But I think it goes way deeper than that. I think that's like surface level. We're having some type of an impact for a positive, you know, for good. But really I think at the end of life, all the time, that we were a good influence around those people, they could feel our spirit, they could see us serving others. All those things add up slowly over time and they do impact those around us on a deep spiritual level, even if we never talk to them about the church. And I think my father-in-law was somebody that showed that and showed that to me, and that's why I put it in the book, because I wanted other people to recognize that, that we can impact people in small ways just by how we live.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of times it's like I kind of think of it like, like, getting in shape right, like if you want to lose weight, you want to build muscle, you want to get in shape right, you can do it on your own. I mean, it's totally possible to be a Christ-like person and to figure out all the things on your own, like how to do that on your own. But those who go to the gym, hire a personal trainer, have a group together that you know is always going to be checking in on them, have it, you know, have someone who's going to come and pick them up every morning at 5am and and then who have all of the tools at the gym necessary. You know what I mean. Like it's a lot easier than trying to lift cans of beans to get your workout in, uh, while you've got kids running around being crazy and the TV's on distracting you and you're kind of only half working out right, like that's sort of the way that that staying in the gospel, staying centered in the gospel, is helping us to develop that Christ-like character in our life. And maybe I can't develop all that other stuff right now, but that's okay, cause I can develop this, and so let me keep developing this and it.

Alisha Coakley:

It helps you to become that person, just like my brother too, when he passed standing room only in the chapel that we had his funeral home. We had people who had gotten stuck outside of Elko it was a three-hour drive through the desert to get to their town and we had people who were stuck in Salt Lake, who had flown in, who wanted to go to his funeral and they couldn't get there. So it was like even the people who were there most of them didn't even live in or near Elko. They lived in Florida and Michigan and like all over the country, and they came to him.

Alisha Coakley:

He had just moved to that town a few months prior and for that amount of impact to have been made, just because he was living the gospel, he was, he was in and he wasn't perfect but he was in it, he kept trying. You know it. Um, it really did leave a lasting impact on just countless amounts of people and and I know, generations to come too. So well, let's, let's chat for just a second here about, um, kind of the final piece to your book, which is enduring to the end. How do you think enduring to the end can really help you to stay and stay well, if that makes sense that Brad Wilcox has ever said and he's my favorite.

Carter Ellis:

He said we are not earning heaven.

Carter Ellis:

We are learning heaven, and I think so much of what enduring to the end is all about is learning how to not only live a celestial life but be comfortable in, like being a celestial being once we're able to once we're able to be a celestial being, if that makes sense, like at the end of the day, every single one of us will return to meet our maker right, and this is another thing that he says is that what's left to be determined is how comfortable we are in his presence and what kind of body we want to have when we're there, and what kind of body we want to have when we're there, and part of what the gospel is about is learning to be the kind of, is realizing that you know, at the end of the day, we are going to be in the same room as the pioneers.

Carter Ellis:

We're going to be in the same room as all the people that have suffered so much that we read about in church and we hear about in our Sunday school lessons. And how can we expect to be there with them and be there with Jesus Christ if we haven't experienced hard things in our life? Jesus Christ never became who he was, just walking through a cakewalk right. He became who he was because of what he suffered for us. And so I try to keep that perspective as I go through my trials and I'm sure that I will have much more in my life, because my life experience to this point is not much but I know in my trials here and the ones that I will have later, that's the thing that kind of keeps me going is realizing that he suffered and he became who he was because he suffered. So I can choose to keep that perspective when I suffer that it's not just that everything is the worst, but that it is a, it is a way that I can become more like the savior.

Jon Coakley:

Yeah, so I think, for me, for enduring to the end, I look at it as this is. You know, this is a classroom, it's not a courtroom. You know, like we're here to learn, we're here to experience everything. And enduring to the end, I think for me is um, you know, I always tell my wife and kids, like you know, um, god gave me broad shoulders for a reason. Like you know, I can take the weight of it. Like you know, we're out hiking whatever else, like I'm literally carrying all of their backs. Like you know, like god gave us all abilities and you know god gave me, you know, the ability, and I mean everybody else's ability, to endure to the end and to push through hard things. And you know, even when, like you said, like when Christ was enduring all of those things in the end, you know, like, physically, you know he endured to the end and he gave up his life willingly at the end, you know, after he endured through absolutely everything, through more than you know any one of us is ever going to go through.

Jon Coakley:

Um, and I think that enduring to the end for me is being there for my family, it's putting my shoulder to the wheel, it's pushing hard, pushing through. You know it's like the, like the Superbowl. You know they didn't play hard at the end there and get that last point in there. Like, you know, like did they really play their heart out. You know, did you really do everything you could to the end? I think it's enduring to the end is about also sharing the gospel and like enduring that to the end, making sure that you know, on your deathbed that you're, you know, still preaching the gospel and you're still telling people like Jesus is real, he's here and in your hardest times he will walk behind you, he'll walk beside you. You know he went through it in Gethsemane. He was there, he saw you go through this. You know we're all tied back to that.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, Well, Scott, what do you think? Do you have any other topics you'd like to bring up or thoughts you want to share?

Scott Brandley:

I'd like to share one on enduring to the end. I think for me it's important to remember who we are and sometimes in life, when we go through trials, we forget, because life gets hard and we forget that we are eternal beings, that we're children of a God. And when we lose that perspective, that's when we can get lost and we have to remember that we are eternal beings having a brief mortal experience on this life. And if we can just keep that in mind, if we can remember who we truly are when times get hard, we can overcome those things. And having that eternal perspective gives us strength and gives us hope, gives us courage and helps us to to take that one more step when we, when we don't think we have the the energy to do it.

Alisha Coakley:

So that'd be my thought I love and I think, uh, I guess my final thought on it is just that there's it is hard, right and during to the end, but I also think that, um, it's not all on us, right, like we not only have the savior, which sometimes is really hard to remember or to feel or to believe even in the moment, but that the Lord will use so many people in our life to help us get through to the next step. You know, uh, he puts friends and family and church leaders and even strangers in our path, and I think that when we start looking for those people I can't remember if it was like one of our last podcasts that we did or whatever, but someone talked about about how, um, a great thing to do is to keep people who are spiritually minded in your life, you know, in, in staying, stay and surround yourself with people who are staying, of all levels of testimony. You know, look, look for the ones who have struggled to stay and who are still there, look for the ones who left and came back, because that's going to give you a perspective. I think that that maybe you haven't been able to experience because you have stayed the whole time, and they can kind of share with you how it's really not as green as you think it's going to be, um, and, and just be open to that. You know, I, I, I swear I think I've said this every other episode but Satan strives, or Satan thrives, in secrecy.

Alisha Coakley:

He loves separating us right from the flock.

Alisha Coakley:

That is how he gets his, his hooks into us is by keeping things secret, by making us feel like we're all alone, by taking away support, and a lot of times the way he takes it away is by us pushing it away right, by us being like we can't, we can't have this person in our life because they're too good, or this person's going to judge me, or that, you know, like convincing you that you need to be by yourself.

Alisha Coakley:

There really are strength in numbers, and I, I, you know. I think that one of the best things that we can do in order to endure to the end is to really surround ourselves to to have that. I call it my Jesus posse. Right, like Jesus had a posse, he had his disciples around him all the time. You know what I mean. There's a reason for it. We are no better than him if he needed disciples to hang out with him all the dang time we probably need our own little group of disciples too, so um you know, it's funny find friends and and if you've jumped off the ship, don't feel at all like coming back to it.

Carter Ellis:

You're coming to a captain who's angry at you for leaving. You're coming back to a captain who is his very first thing he's gonna do is reach out your hand, just like, just like on this, this cover. That is that is how he will be that there is. There is nothing. I'm sure that he loves more than being able to welcome someone back who has left and that maybe doesn't feel like they deserve to be welcomed back. I think that's probably some of his favorite moments. Are those moments?

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, I agree.

Scott Brandley:

I'm glad you brought that picture up because that's why that picture. I tell a story about how that cover came to be at the very end of the book, but I pictured that in my head of Christ reaching out through a storm to try to save the person that was reading the book. And he's doing that for all of us, right, his hand is constantly reaching out in our storms of life, desperately asking him to. You know, to take his hand. All we have to do is reach out and he'll be there, and I think that's really important.

Alisha Coakley:

Well, do we touch on everything, Scott? You think we're? Are we ready to wrap up our fifth and final session?

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, I guess I would just say you know, this book will give you perspective, whether you you know you haven't been to church in years, whether you went last week, whether you went today, it will give you perspective on faith, on faith, and it will hopefully strengthen your testimony, strengthen your faith in some way, and if it doesn't help you, it can help those around you. One of the reasons why I made it free is because I want people to be able to share it when they need to share it and not feel like they have to go buy it to share it.

Alisha Coakley:

Right.

Scott Brandley:

And because we all know people we all probably know a dozen people that are struggling and if they can get a different perspective and they can recognize the importance of the gospel in their life, it might just be enough, a little bit of a enough of a spark to get them to start coming back or to, you know, to change their, their thinking or, you know, help them overcome a struggle that they're dealing with, Even if it's like doctrine, if it's some type of a doctrine that they can't get over, or you know, something that someone they can't forgive, something they did, a sin that they committed and they just can't figure out how to overcome it. There's ways that you can deal with those things, that you can change your perspective, change your mindset and hopefully overcome them and and strengthen your faith. So go get the book it's free faith to staycom and, you know, if you like it, leave a comment, let me know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Alisha Coakley:

Awesome. Well, thank you, scott, for writing this book, for putting it together, putting together the podcast for, you know, putting together all of these episodes that we've had. I just love that I can call you friend and I think that what you've done is amazing and I'm really excited to to, in some small way, be a part of spreading the light, the way that that you've been doing. So definitely, listeners, guys, go to faith this daycom and, uh, grab your your free download of the book or head over to Amazon or sorry, yes, amazon or the website, and you can always order too. Like we said, when you do order one of the books, a hundred percent of the proceeds goes to the Markovia project with the Hemmerts, which is just such a great, great organization that's doing amazing things. Carter, Jon, thank you guys for jumping on today and for having this discussion and making me cry. Can't ever get through an episode without crying, guys.

Scott Brandley:

Thanks, guys, for being on, and thanks Alisha for joining me in this crazy ride We've been doing this for three years and thank you, Jon, for supporting her. And thanks Carter for writing that post, man, that was awesome, very inspiring. So I just really appreciate all you guys for being here.

Alisha Coakley:

And Carter. Yeah, you made the cut, sir, so we'll have you on and you can share your own story, the whole episode. So think about an hour's worth of content.

Carter Ellis:

I will get on it Awesome.

Alisha Coakley:

All right, guys. Well, that's all we have for you today. Make sure that you share this episode by doing your five second missionary work and leave us a comment. Let us know if you, if you got Scott's book and you've been reading through it, or you you've already read through it. Let us know your thoughts. What's your favorite part? We know. Share it with others. Let people know that this is something that everyone can benefit from. It really really is he. He just has this great. It's a very simple to read and understand book, which is great, like. I feel like it's just written in such a way that, uh, you, everyone's going to get something from it, I promise you.

Jon Coakley:

So you should have. You should have titled it faith for dummies.

Scott Brandley:

That'll be my next one. That's the sequel, exactly, oh goodness alright.

Alisha Coakley:

Well, that's all we have for you today. Remember, if you guys have a story that you'd like to share, or you know someone who would be a great guest on the show, we want to hear from you. So go ahead and email us at latterdaylights at gmailcom, or head over to our website, latterdaylightscom, and you can fill out the contact form at the bottom of the page and we will have someone get in touch with you so that we can get some more information and get you scheduled. But until then, we hope you guys have a wonderful week, make sure you go get Scott's book and share it with others, and we will talk to you soon.

Scott Brandley:

Bye guys, bye everybody.

Jon Coakley:

Bye, bye, see ya.

People on this episode

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Scott Brandley

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Alisha Coakley

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