LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Becoming Nephi's Apprentice: How One Father Is Revitalizing LDS Youth Programs: Josh Chapman's Story - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley

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What if your child's youth nights became adventures modeled after Book of Mormon heroes?

On today’s episode of Latter-day Lights, we’re joined by Josh Chapman, a creative father of six from Ogden, Utah, who retired from his day job to create 'Nephi’s Apprentice'.

Nephi’s Apprentice is a gospel-centered program that takes life skills like compass work, tool-making, and conflict resolution, and ties them directly to the stories and examples of Nephi and other Book of Mormon heroes.

Designed to complement and work within the guidelines of the Church’s new youth programs, it’s a  Scouting-style adventure reimagined to build both confidence and testimony for both young men and young women.

If you’re a parent or leader looking for ready-to-run activities that are fun, meaningful, and spiritually powerful, you won’t want to miss this conversation.

*** Please SHARE Josh's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/iuk_U8--OYU

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To LEARN MORE about the Nephi's Apprentice program visit: https://youthforgedinfaith.com/

To READ Scott’s new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

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Scott Brandley:

Hey there as a Latter-day Lights listener, I want to give you a very special gift today my brand new book, faith to Stay. This book is filled with inspiring stories, powerful discoveries and even fresh insights to help strengthen your faith during the storms of life. So if you're looking to be inspired, uplifted and spiritually recharged, just visit faithtostaycom. Now let's get back to the show. Hey everyone, I'm Scott Branley.

Alisha Coakley:

And I'm Alicia Copley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley:

On today's episode we're going to hear how one creative father is helping the youth to understand that God wants more than just their time he wants their hearts. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today. We're really excited to introduce our special guest, Josh Chapman, to the show. Welcome, Josh.

Josh Chapman:

Thank you, I'm glad to be here. This is exciting.

Alisha Coakley:

Well, thanks so much for reaching out to us. We're definitely excited about just what you've created, what you're going to talk about today. I think there's a need for it, for sure, but before we get into any of that, we want to hear just a little bit more about who you are. So why don't you tell us, josh, who are you? Where'd you come from? All right, what do you got going on?

Josh Chapman:

Okay, I'm Josh Chapman, I live in Ogden, utah, and I recently retired from my day job so I could pursue more interests that are more compelling to myself and my family, things that I feel more strongly about, and so I'm excited to be doing my own things now and trying to raise six kids. I have three adult children and three young children still, and my wife and we're happy to just be part of the church, and I'm trying to figure out how to get all my kids to have strong testimonies and a desire to serve Christ and be in part of God's kingdom.

Scott Brandley:

That's awesome. That's a righteous desire, man, and it's a challenge in the world today. So I think I think your your story is going to help a lot of people to get some different ideas about that and how they can help their kids to get a stronger testimony. So super excited.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, absolutely, and I it. It's funny, we sent six kids. It reminds me of, uh, this pastor that I had heard um a long time ago and he, him and his wife, they had something like nine kids or whatever. And he says it's so funny. He's like so many people come up to me they're like man, nine kids, you must really love kids. And he's's like nope, I just really love my wife. That's how, that's how the kids came along, and so when people have over three, I'm like they must really love each other.

Josh Chapman:

Oh yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Or hate money. One of the two.

Alisha Coakley:

They hate money, they hate a clean house. No, I don't know what a clean house looks like I'll tell you that they hate being able to have food but still in the fridge like oh my gosh, oh geez pretty much teenagers. My daughter's 12, but she acts like she's 16. I bought me some double stuffed oreo cookies the other day and I meant to bring them here to my venue so that I could like have something to munch on. You know, I get home and two and a half of the three sleeves are eaten.

Josh Chapman:

I don't know Did you guys eat lunch. That sounds like it.

Alisha Coakley:

Enough about those guys, josh. Why don't we go ahead and turn the time over to you? Tell us where. Where does your whole story begin?

Josh Chapman:

all right. Um, well, I I grew up in salt lake city, um, in Sugar House, and back then, as far as I knew, we were kind of, you know, a little bit out on the edges of society, but honestly, we were right in the middle of the city. I just always felt a little bit removed, but it was a good life. But my parents bought a fixer-upper home before I was born and so for 20 years the house was under construction. Uh, there was nine kids eventually, uh, and the house was. The house was finished about the time the last kid was born, so, so eight, um, in a house with one bathroom, uh, and no doors, no, uh, no walls. Most of the time, uh, when I'm saying construction, it was like hardcore, legit construction, torn down walls, torn all kinds of stuff. So I actually never had a bedroom until I was 13 years old and I, I learned how to build. I helped build the house. I ran wire and and insulating and my brothers helped with the plumbing. I didn't help with the plumbing that much as I was younger but and dad built foundations and all kinds of framing. You know he had a lot of help from people in the ward back then. There was.

Josh Chapman:

We lived on 900 East and Salt Lake city. If you ever drive by 14th South, you'll see this big white house with a funky design. That's the design that the house that my dad designed and it was quite an ambitious project. It started out as like a little tiny one or two bedroom house with barely a kitchen and a living room and ended up with five bedrooms and extra space, two or three living rooms and kitchen, nice kitchen and everything. But it took a long, long, long time.

Josh Chapman:

So there were people in the ward that just were the most amazing men. A lot of them were my scout leaders over the years that I was there and I just have so much love and respect for those men because I didn't know then. What I know now is that my dad didn't really know what he was doing to build that house. But some of those men did, and my dad was was working a lot, you know kind of struggling along through it and getting there. It was working. But but I don't know if it would have worked out if it hadn't been for some of those people that lived just down the up and down the street from me, that lived just up and down the street from me. So I'm really grateful for that. And my father passed away a little over a year, maybe a year and a half ago or so, and that was really sad and hard time for my family.

Josh Chapman:

But the and a lot of people, if they even knew what kind of circumstances we were living in, I mean, you'd get DCFS called on you today. It just you couldn't do that anymore. But back then it was a different. You know, it was the 80s. Nobody cared.

Josh Chapman:

And so we, you know we got through it, though. We learned to work. We worked really hard. We built things, we bottled peaches. You know we had a it though we, we, we learned to work. We worked really hard. We, we built things, we bottled peaches. You know we bought, we had a garden forever and and bottled all kinds of things from the garden. It was just we worked and worked and worked and I think that that in in some ways is kind of a. Most of our kids just don't see, have that kind of experience anymore. Most of our kids just don't have that kind of experience anymore, all the work out of necessity that we did.

Josh Chapman:

When I was growing up, there was a time when my dad was the branch president for a nursing home that was in our ward, and so he had keys to the church and he had an office at the ward building and that old building had a bathroom with the shower.

Josh Chapman:

The men's bathroom had a shower in it and there was a time when we had no shower. So we would go to the church late at night after dark and sneak in and I'll take showers, kind of hang out in the office while we're taking care of that, because that was the only option we really had, and it was showers at the church for a good while when we had no shower at home. It was kind of an interesting event. And then, on top of all that, we were also homeschooled. I went to second and third grade at public school and then after that we were homeschooled, and so I pretty much had to learn how to learn on my own. I'm not an academic person, I'm much more of a creative person, um, so I have siblings who are academic and they they've done some really amazing things in their lives. Um, I'm just not academic like that. So if I know how to do any math, it was it. It took me a minute to learn how to do it.

Scott Brandley:

Right.

Josh Chapman:

And uh, um. So but bless my mom, she worked really hard and taught us what she could and she had a deep love for learning and study, and she really one of the main things that she wanted us to learn was about the Constitution of the United States and have a deep respect and understanding of the founding fathers and the making of America. And that was something we went through a lot and I'm really glad about that because I think it's highly important for the more people that understand where we came from, the less likely we are of digressing and getting ourselves back into some of the problems that the founding fathers made true that we were not in anymore. And then you know, I loved church. I participated in church all the time. I loved church. I participated in church all the time. In fact, I went on a mission to Brazil in 1999.

Josh Chapman:

And in the MTC the missionaries were like well, how do you know you have a testimony, when did you get your testimony? And some of them had their various know. Something happened that was really meaningful to them. And I thought, well, I have always gone to church and I've always believed in Christ and that's it. And they're like, huh, I don't understand that they couldn't comprehend that I didn't have some sort of lightning bolt moment where I gained a testimony. It's just no. It's line upon line, precept upon precept. And here I am. So I never had a rebellious streak when I quit going to church. I never had some point when I just didn't know if I had a testimony or anything. I just always did, and so that was an interesting experience for associating with people that didn't really understand. It was foreign to them to comprehend that kind of experience.

Josh Chapman:

So I came home from my mission and I wanted to get to work. I wanted to try to build a life. Right when I got home, my sister got married while I was gone and my other two older siblings, my two brothers, got married right after I got home from my mission. So I kind of felt some pressure to get married. I didn't want to be the one that was at home, adult kid, without any future going for me. So I tried really hard to find a wife and I did. In less than a year I met my wife on an early lds dating website. So it's like way before tinder and and what are the e-harmony and whatever those are nowadays.

Josh Chapman:

This was a really old one and we met on there and hit it off really quickly. Um, or it's a fun story, I she lived in Layton and I lived in Salt Lake City, and so we went on a date and I came up to see her in Layton and we just kind of hung out at kind of a park there and I never, ever, kissed a girl on our first date ever. But I did on that one. I was like whoa, what happened there? That was weird. And then we both had dates the next day with some other people. So we both went on our dates. We broke it off for the day, went on our other dates, and then the next day was sunday, we got back together and, uh, picked a date and a week after our first date I had a ring and I and I had written a song, I played on the guitar and asked her to marry me and she said yes, yeah yeah, and we got.

Josh Chapman:

We got married two and a half months later. So it was I was, I was, I was. I told you I felt the pressure, I was trying to get it done, I had to get it done. So that was it. That was kind of an exciting moment there obviously worked out.

Josh Chapman:

You got six kids yeah so far, so good yeah, she's a good person and I love her a lot yeah and and you know, and marriage is hard and and there there's certainly been many times over. I think we've been married 24 years Actually. I think this, whatever it is, yeah, but there's certainly been many times when when we're like, oh my gosh, did I do the right thing?

Josh Chapman:

And uh, you know, it's, that's part of life. And and especially, you know, early on in our marriage, um, I just was like, man, I barely know this woman. I, just I, I, we got married so fast, we didn't have time to date or anything, um, but uh, it worked out and there was a time when I said, you know, probably like three or four years into the marriage I'd be like, yeah, we've been married for two short years and three long ones, something like that. But yeah, we had our first kid within just a little less than a year after we got married. So it was for a long time there. I have known you pregnant longer than I've known you not pregnant.

Scott Brandley:

Wow, yeah, you're really jumping in quick.

Josh Chapman:

Yeah, it was. Yeah, just for the record. I don't recommend that as a dating approach. I'm not telling people they should do that, but in our case it did work out. Um, yeah.

Josh Chapman:

And then you know, after we, we, uh, we pretty soon we bought a house and right away I got called as a scout master and I loved that. I was super excited about that Growing up. I had done all the scouting, I got my Eagle Scout and I got lots of merit badges, only to be outdone by my brother but he's an overachiever, so it's okay. But I really enjoyed scouting growing up and it was really important to me. And then, as a young married man single or young married father wasn't a father yet and I became the scout master. Maybe I was a father by then, I don't know, but I was a scout master and I just really enjoyed that and it was, it was fulfilling for me.

Josh Chapman:

And I I you know took the kids on their scout camps and, uh, we, we had a lot of really good activities. And then, just out of the blue, uh, the someone from the bishopric came over and he's like uh, we're gonna release you. I'm like what, what, why? And it hadn't been that long and he's like, well, there's just some personality thing and and we just we're just going to release you and he's. And he told me he didn't feel right about it, but he did it anyway and I just felt so torn up and broken down from that. I'm like what, what did I do? I was doing a good job and I felt bad and in fact I think that was a lot of the reason why I moved from that war. We moved pretty soon after that and soon as we moved I got called right back into scouts and I'm like, see, god did want me to be in scouts, and so um had another great group of boys and I think I was. We were there for probably about two and a half years and and man, those boys are just amazing and you know, they're all grown up now and and I think most of them have just done really well with their lives and so I'm really proud of them.

Josh Chapman:

But so time came that we, it was time to move again and we moved again, and then it was like crickets, nothing. I think we worked a little bit in the primary and did a little bit of um. We, I, for a little bit, I, I was like a 11 year old scout leader for like maybe a year and then a few years later I was like the Weeblos scout leader for a little short time, but it was just like nothing and and and I guess for me I thought that I had a calling to be a young men's leader or scout leader or something like that, and it just apparently not, because for 20 years I haven't had any, hardly any interaction with the youth and I mostly felt really bad about that. And so there was kind of this, this sadness and and uh, um, kind of like like did I do something wrong or did what did where? Did I miss the boat? Like what, what, what went wrong? And I just felt really weird about that forever and ever and ever. So that was kind of kind of devastating in a lot of ways.

Josh Chapman:

Well, let me kind of back up a little bit here as we started to have kids. So I was homeschooled growing up and I told my wife when we were dating for those whole two months or whatever, like I think we should probably homeschool our kids, and she's like, yeah, not happening, no way. And uh, and that, and I you know I was fine with that I'm like, okay, well, you know it's if I wasn't gonna like fight it, um, and then she worked in an elementary school for a little while and as she saw some of the things that happened in the school and I don't know specifically what those were but she came around pretty soon and said, yeah, I think we should probably homeschool, probably homeschool. And so we have homeschooled our kids. Uh, except for a couple of them did do a little bit of time in school, like I did, but most of our big kids have, um, uh, or most of our kids have been almost completely homeschooled.

Josh Chapman:

And and that's a a challenge or that's not for everybody and there's different ways of doing that.

Josh Chapman:

But it's another part of life where it feels like people that don't understand it, can't understand it and they don't know what to make of it.

Josh Chapman:

And I feel a lot of times like people just don't know what to do with it when they hear that and they're like, why do you do that? And most of the time they are saying things like well, what about their social lives? And we always laugh about that, because our kids actually are capable and competent in social situations. I have a 16-year-old daughter that often will go to church dances wherever she can find them, by herself and just show up and dance, and she doesn't need a crowd of people to keep her company necessarily, and she's just brave and not worried about it. And my kids can talk to adults and they can talk to kids that are older than them and kids that are younger than them, and they are really comfortable and confident in in social situations. So I think it's it's ironic that people worry about that Um lot of times their peers, I'm not sure if they know how to talk to people that aren't their friends.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah.

Josh Chapman:

But I've felt a lot of times like I'm kind of invisible and and almost sometimes like does god even need me for anything? And I thought about the song. You know, you know it may not be at a mountain high or over a stormy sea that the lord will have need of me.

Josh Chapman:

And I'm like well certainly not on a mountain high, certainly not on a stormy sea. But I'm not sure where he needs me right now because I'm not very needed for anything. So I don't know. Maybe my calling now has been to be a father, to be a husband and to take care of these six amazing kids, and hopefully I've done a decent enough job of that. And you know, time will tell. I suppose We'll see.

Scott Brandley:

As I think Elder Gong says, we'll see. As I think elder gong says, we'll see. Well, we, we were talking a little bit before the show and, um, you know, sometimes we do have to take things into our own hands and you, be proactive and do what we can, what we feel that we can and what we feel personally inspired to do. That's why this podcast exists, right.

Josh Chapman:

Yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Josh Chapman:

Yeah, and that's and that's kind of the direction I started to go because, like I, I've lived here for a long time now and I it's it's been a lot like like there's great people around me and we have really good relationships with a lot of people and at the same time, there's not very many people that come and knock on my door and walk in my house and visit or there's not very many people that I can go and do something with on a regular basis. And I think maybe you're right, I'll tend to think that God's got this whole plan of something for me to do and maybe he's waiting for me to do my own thing. Maybe he's waiting for me to decide what's, what do I need to do and start doing it. Um, and so maybe that's that's, I think, what finally brought me to this, uh, this youth program that I've created, youth program that I've created.

Josh Chapman:

So I made a lot of my money over the years as a real estate investor and by doing that I was able to retire from my job almost a year ago. But it was definitely a hard road and I bought my first duplex when I was 22 years old and back then if you could fog a mirror, the bank would give you a loan, and that's pretty much what I did and over a few years, I actually ended up with a fairly significant real estate portfolio, up with a fairly significant real estate portfolio. But then the 2008 crash came along and wiped me out pretty bad, but I did keep that duplex I lost several homes in foreclosure at that point and bankruptcy and a business deal a real estate deal I'd done with some other people, in which one guy ran off with some money and I was blamed for it and I had to pay back the money the other guy ran off with and it was humiliating and it was, it was painful and it was. I mean it. It beat me down really, really bad, and I pretty much hit the bottom Like there's nothing left to do.

Josh Chapman:

Here I am and I came to the determination that if I was going to lose everything anyway, I might as well be doing something I enjoy doing. Doing something I enjoy doing because real estate is good for making money, but not particularly fun or enjoyable for fun or interest. So, and I, I come from building and you know, remodeling the house and, uh, when I was 17 or 16, 17, I built a uh, a metal lathe, which is a machine for machinists, and it's a pretty involved machine and I just built it out of aluminum castings that I made at home and just very hands-on and construction-oriented. It is pretty amazing for a 16-year-old to do that for sure.

Scott Brandley:

I think I made like a dust pan. You know, like you're making a metal lathe. I'm making a metal lathe.

Josh Chapman:

Yeah, it was a, it was quite a project and even even at the time I'm like man, this is an ambitious project and and you know I'm I, it is something I'm proud of, but but I I loved to make stuff out of metal and wood and, and you know I'm I, it is something I'm proud of, but but I I loved to make stuff out of metal and wood and and stuff.

Josh Chapman:

So I, when I, when I hit rock bottom with my investment portfolio, I went back to school and got my machining certificate, so I became a legitimate machinist and it was something I could do, that I cared about, that was interesting to me, and pretty soon I got a job in a company that manufactures rock climbing gear and I worked there for about a year and then in about that time is when I pretty much became the lead engineer on site and started doing most of the programming, the production, programming and product development and everything in association with the owner of the company and it kind of worked side by side with him and we, we built, I think we produced. Over about five years I I produced about 30 new products and yeah, it was, it was quite a few and pretty quick.

Josh Chapman:

Yeah, one of those products sold a million dollars in like a year, so it was exciting. And then I found another job in engineering doing an aircraft work and did some work for them and then I went back to the rock climbing company. So I spent about 15 years as a career um, engineer, machinist, et cetera, and uh, um, I felt pretty good about that and I I think I did a lot of good things in the time that I was doing that. But, um, I, you know, the time came. I built, I rebuilt my real estate portfolio and got to a point where I could decide that I didn't need the day job anymore and there's more important things for me to do. So I left the job market again last year and have been trying to figure out the best way for me to apply my talents in the in the real world, and I'm hoping that I'm getting there.

Josh Chapman:

So, um, and I think that's kind of the life sketch, like maybe that's more than you asked for, but I think that brings us to building stuff for a company and they pay me by the hour and it's fine, but it's not particularly meaningful. Um, and I, I have these teenage boys that are growing up and I'm. I'm looking at their lives and feeling like they're missing out on a lot of the lessons that I learned growing up. They're not. They're not actively building their house all the time they. They have helped me in real estate. I've done a lot of remodeling and things and they've helped with some of that, but not to the level that I grew up doing it and I'm just trying to figure out what is it that matters to me and what matters to God? Where do I fit in spiritually and what's the reason for all of this? And so a few years ago I started. I was a primary activities leader. This is, I think, still when it was called Activity Days, maybe.

Josh Chapman:

I don't remember it's been a few years. No, probably not. It was actually probably just after the church left the Boy Scouts and actually I like the way, I think, elder Ballard put it. He said the Boy Scouts left the church, which I think is a fitting way to say that, and so it was probably around then and I was a leader with the primary boys and we went to a Boy Scout camp day camp for the little kids and we were going around the camp and they have these little stations where you do, you know, archery or riding a BMX bike or making your crafts and you know, going on a little nature walk, and we were going through this camp throughout the day and I just thought, why isn't this, why doesn't this look like anything at all related to church? Why is there no talk of God? There's no connection to testimony building or anything.

Josh Chapman:

And I started thinking about what we're doing compared to what Nephi did in the first book of Nephi and I thought, oh well, nephi had to do some, shoot some arrows. He had to make a bow and arrows to go feed his family. Nephi had to go on a nature walk that took forever and he went through this, you know, the wilderness and he had to navigate, and I mean he had the liahona, of course, but but, um, he had all the these experiences. He made tools. I mean how, how cool is that? Here I am growing up making a metal lathe, and here's nephi blacksmithing his own tools to build a ship, and I just I'm really connecting with him like that. And uh, and I just thought, wouldn't it be cool if this was like camp Nephi and we were here learning things under the under the uh premise of of you know, here's Nephi and he did this. He learned how to shoot an arrow. So let's go over here and let's shoot some arrows. And and then Nephi had to do this walk. He had to follow the lean at Leah Hona. Let's go over here and learn how to follow a compass. And and we could tie all of these physical and worldly experiences and skills right into the book of Mormon, right into what we already believe. And I, and I thought about that. I'm like that is a cool idea. I like that idea, but I didn't know what to do with it at first and I kind of sat on it for a while and it kind of evolved.

Josh Chapman:

My wife and I ended up, a few years ago, becoming church camp missionaries. So for the last five years we've spent a few weeks a year as camp missionaries and seen some of the the camps, the girl camps and things like that, and some of what they do and some and some of where they are, their weaknesses and their strengths, and so as I've kind of become more and more exposed to that, I started thinking, okay, I've got to do something with this Nephites thing, what am I going to do with it? And so after I retired last year, I really started working hard on it and I started writing. I do some writing and so I started writing and coming up with what I thought I could do with it and this is where Nephi's Apprentice is born and children and youth activity structure. So the church, when scouting left the church, the church had to come up with something for the youth, and what they came up with is called the, it's called children and youth activities, and then for the strength of youth is somehow is also there, and I don't know if I don't remember, if they're like the same. I think it seems like they're two different things. Um, and so they, uh, but but the, the goal, and I sat in the original meeting with elder Gong, I think uh, the not with him, but the broadcast of that and listened to him describe it, and it was basically you're going to, the kids need to create goals and start working towards those goals, and that is what you're going to do for your youth program nights, and that's great, except that some of us aren't creative like me.

Josh Chapman:

Some people don't have the time and a lot of like, if you're a bishop or a bishop's counselor and you have a day job still and you're trying to, tuesday night comes along and how many people are going? Oh man, what am I going to do tonight? I don't even know. And then you're like it's the kid's job, they're supposed to do it. I'm not supposed to. I'm the adult leader. The kids are supposed to figure this out, but the kids aren't doing it either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many of the kids really and truly get it? Now, if they do, excellent, great, let them do it, let them roll, let them run. But if they don't, what are you supposed to do?

Josh Chapman:

Right, create a Nephi's program based on Nephi, that gives the kids some guidelines to follow that they can use to. They can have these activities. They don't have to work really hard at figuring out what the activity is. They just follow the list, do the activity. They might have to do some work to figure out how to do it, cause I didn't include that in the world of information. I thought it's really easy for them to get a YouTube video on how to use a compass or whatever it might be. I don't think I need to fill that in, at least not now. I mean, I have to start somewhere. So I I have created a list of uh of 20 activities that they can do, and when they complete that list of 20 activities that they can do, and when they complete that list of 20 activities, they become Nephi's apprentice and we've created a lapel pin that they can use or they can earn, and we'll sell those on our website and they can have that, wear it on their suit or something like that.

Josh Chapman:

And this program is designed so it's not specific to the boys. The girls can do it too, although, to be honest, I think the girls usually have it figured out pretty well. I feel like it's usually the boys that struggle the most. But girls, you're welcome to come along too. You can be Nephi's apprentice also. So we're not trying to segregate them at all, but part of this idea is to have that.

Josh Chapman:

Not only are we doing an interesting activity, it's also educational. It's teaching them something, a skill of some kind of value, and there's scriptures involved with it where they can dive into scriptures and find out what God has to say about this stuff. And then there's some things like one of the activity is conflict resolution. This is not something most people talk about, but it's important that we learn how to resolve conflicts and I thought that is something that would really be valuable to dive into so that kids can have a better grasp on where to go to handle their conflict.

Josh Chapman:

A lot of life skills, things like using a compass or hiking or building a shelter. And I definitely had Boy Scouts in mind as I worked on this, and I wanted to create something that would kind of replace what Boy Scouts used to be, but do it in a gospel-centered and Christ-centered way so that those who use it can really build and gain their testimony. So the main points that I wanted to hit while I built the Nephites Apprentice Program was I wanted to teach kids and youth the different skills, because there are certain things that some people will never learn if they, if they don't have to, and these are, a lot of times, things that they really don't cover in school. This is my homeschool background coming out, where I I have to find these educational opportunities in life, cause that's how homeschool works most of the time.

Josh Chapman:

And so I, at least for us. Um, so I I wanted to teach the those those kind of boy Scouts kind of skills sharpen a knife and things like that. So there's there's an activity in here where they can. They can make a tool with wood or metal and you know they're going to have to get somebody they know to help them figure out how to do that, and there's some simple ways of doing that or it can get really complex, but it's left open for a youth or their leaders to interpret how they want to do that. But it does give kind of this guidelines overview. It gives some scriptures to follow and some follow-up on some activities. There are some activities that are meant to help you start new habits, like scripture reading and praying, and there's follow-ups for those, and all of it is based on Christ, becoming a follower of Christ and becoming a better person.

Josh Chapman:

And I think, alicia, as you said in the beginning, that we're trying to become more like Christ and that's what Heavenly Father really wants. He's not as concerned with what I do for a living or what I do for fun he's not, as he's not really hung up on on those kinds of things, and but he is concerned with what I become and who I become, and that is, I think, the the most important part of the the that's the whole reason of this life is to see what we will become. And in participating in church and in trying to be Christ-like and trying to learn how to forgive people and be kind and compassionate and empathetic to people, that's us learning how to be more like God. And the more that we become, or the more we learn those things, the closer we are to being like God, which is the whole goal in the first place, and that was that's kind of my. My goal here is to provide something that people can use to really launch themselves to be closer to God and more like God. That was the whole goal and I hope I've done it.

Josh Chapman:

And I do have specifically in the program. I have an email address for people to give that kind of feedback. People to give that kind of feedback If there's something that they want to see in the next program or something that they feel strongly about. There's a feedback email for that, so that we can kind of hear from the community of church members of what is it that they need and what do they want. A lot of this is kind of based on what I think they need, and I may be wrong in certain areas, but we're trying to create something that will benefit people in whatever small way we can. So right now, we have a downloadable PDF available. I have some free versions available on our website. So, right now, we have a downloadable PDF available. I have some free versions available on our website, as well as a paid version, and we're really wanting to get the homeschool community involved. We want the not homeschool community involved.

Josh Chapman:

Quorums and families Um, we I'd I'd love to have more bishops and state presidents look at it and see if it's something that would would work in their um jurisdictions. Uh, I don't expect everybody to use it, but I think that those who do use it will find, uh, uh, some value in it. That, um, I hope to. I hope the value will be far more than what they pay for it. I've priced it low, so it's not an expensive tool, but it's something that I think can matter and, honestly, the only reason there's a price tag on it at all is is because I don't want to spend my life doing it if it doesn't matter to people, and I feel like that's one way that I can test if people care about it and if it does matter to people and I hope that people will look at it and try it and see how it can benefit them.

Josh Chapman:

And if your ward doesn't want to use it, you can use it with your kids at home. It doesn't have to be for Tuesday or Wednesday night activities, it could be just for your own family. Maybe you could use it for your family home evening type of situation. And then, yeah, the plan is to make modules for different age groups. I started with Nephi's Apprentice, which I feel like is pretty good for that 12 to 14 year old range, um, but older kids would still get a lot out of it. But I want to make uh modules for the older kids that cover, you know, like car repair or something like that for the when they have a car. Uh, yeah.

Josh Chapman:

And then, and I want to make some that are for the younger kids, like the primary kids. I'm a primary activity leader right now because I have an eight year old and so I get to be his activity leader. Sometimes I share that with some other people and I think we've done some really cool activities, as I've been trying to do activities in this style. So a little while back we went all full mad scientist. I brought electronic stuff. I brought a voltmeter and some LEDs and batteries and wires and we started learning how to build circuits and how to connect a battery and how to put a switch in the circuit so you could turn it on and off, and had a little motor we could generate power with by hand cranking it, and we talked about power and all of this stuff. And then we started talking about spiritual power, and you know spiritual connection and how your connection with God is. You can't see electricity and you can't see your connection with God, but you can observe it, you can test it, and we went into all that. So not only were we teaching the kids some real physical lessons that are valuable, that they won't learn in school, we were also teaching them spiritual lessons, and my little boy keeps coming back from those kind of activities and he remembers them and he doesn't necessarily talk about it a lot. But another activity we did like that he came back. He mentioned it several times over the next few weeks. It stuck in his head because it wasn't just fun, it was also meaningful, and to me it matters to be meaningful.

Josh Chapman:

When I was a kid I had three sisters and I would go to scout camp in the summer and they'd go to girls camp and I'd come home from camp and they'd come home from camp and they'd talk about what they did and I'd compare that to what we did and I thought, man, I want to be going to girls camp. That sounds way better. That sounds way better. And it was because it was spiritual, not just because it was fun. But they did so many cool things and I always felt like Scouts just didn't quite hit it, it didn't quite meet that. I mean, we did some fun stuff but mostly came home with sunburns and mosquito bites and not, not uh and and meaningful understanding of the gospel.

Josh Chapman:

So I feel like I feel like I'm I'm trying to offer something to the the membership of the church that I hope will matter. I hope it will, uh, create a, a vision where people can see a path to discipleship, and I hope that having a little emblem will be exciting and that the 12-year-old kids will be like, oh yeah, I want that emblem on my suit lapel. That'll be so cool. And then they work for it and they do it and they don't.

Josh Chapman:

Tuesday night comes along and they're like I don't really want to go tonight because, you know, last time we just kind of played dodgeball. But you know, I I see that in my own kids sometimes and I I don't want that to be the experience of the church's youth. I want the church or the youth in the church to be so excited that they would just do anything to be there. You know they'd quit soccer to be to their youth activity nights because it's so good. So I don't know if we'll get them to quit soccer, but you know, maybe one kid will, we'll get him to quit soccer, but you know, maybe one kid will.

Alisha Coakley:

We'll see well, maybe not even quit soccer, but just, you know, make it important, right and and kids know when it's important and when it's not.

Josh Chapman:

I mean, you can't pull a pull the wool over a kid's eyes, he knows. And if, if the activity was last minute or if it was underprepared, yeah, they can tell they know and uh, you know, as, as, as adults, we've got stuff we're doing, we know we're busy, we've, we've got to make a living, we've got to mow the lawn, we've got to, you know, do all the different things that we do, and sometimes preparing a youth lesson does not feel that exciting for an adult um, yeah but that's kind of what we're called to do, and I feel like we have, I don't know, like, like our generation, right, you know, those of us who have been 20 twice now and up, uh, we, uh, I feel like we knew how to be bored yeah

Alisha Coakley:

right like we. We could handle. You'd handle not being entertained and just learning something just for the sake of learning and we, uh, things move slower Right and we didn't have. I feel like when I was a teenager, I didn't have as many things calling my attention as what the teenagers.

Alisha Coakley:

Oh, not even close, right, not even close and and I just think it was, it was just a. We were just a different generation. We had different, different challenges and whatever else. And this generation, like you were saying, they, they have all new challenges that we never dealt with before, and one of those challenges is that they are constantly being entertained yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

Right, like, like it takes nothing for them to pick up their cell phones and to have entertainment, and they have so much going on that we've been doing everything faster. Think about this you can watch a video or listen to an audible or something like that, at 2x speed. Right, they can't even listen to someone talk at a regular speed anymore. They're like no, come on, hurry up, just get the information. You know you want to drive through and you want to get everything instantly at the drive-thru, right, like like you want to go to dinner and you want it to be done in two minutes, and if you have to wait more than two minutes to the drive-thru, you're like being driven crazy, right? So in all of that, we have so much more competition for their attention nowadays, and I love that. What you're doing is you're like you're still keeping it spiritual, but you understand, too, that the kids need to be entertained and the best way that someone learns a lesson is when they don't even realize they're learning because they're so engaged. Yeah, right, to me, like that's. That's like those moments where it's like man, like I love how you gave that example Thank you for that, by the way of like the electricity and conducting, and and you know, like, just like I can see how the kids would be like, oh, this is so cool and let me, oh, watch my light, light up. And then all of a sudden, bam, you hit him with a little bit of spiritual strength. You know, and didn't mean you had to have a whole long lesson where you're reading three chapters and then you're like discussing the chapters and you've lost half of the group and the other half of the group is only, you know, half contributing anyway.

Alisha Coakley:

And I like, I just I really really like that a lot. So I'm interested in seeing what else you have. And of course, to the adults too, we adults have more, more things distracting us. These days. We too are entertained very easily, which means we're, we get bored easier than we used to. And I think us adults, a lot of us, have turned into worker bees, right Like to contradict the boredom in life. We just work a whole lot. We're not as yes, we do.

Alisha Coakley:

So it's nice when we can still work in our callings and we have resources like this available to sort of help us do our callings doing well. And you know what I think too? I think that stuff like this just opens up your mind to being creative and other elements of your life, like where else can you marry two things together Like spirit and entertainment?

Scott Brandley:

right.

Alisha Coakley:

Like how else can I draw inspiration, analogies, similes, off of something that's happening in the real world, you know? And then I think it kind of puts them in a state of constantly thinking on a spiritual plane, right. So I don't know, I think it's great, I think, yeah, I.

Josh Chapman:

I, specifically, I have a suggested and year long program. Uh, there's about 20 activities. There's 52 weeks in a year and so and I, and so I figured well, you take 12 of those off, cause they're they always do a combined activity once a month usually, and then there's a few days that they need to follow up on some of the stuff they did in the past. But also, like you just said, I hope that the youth and the leaders will start going. You know what, you know what we could do, this other activity kind of on the same way, where we pull up this scripture and we do this activity and we marry it together and it becomes a meaningful thing and we'll start.

Josh Chapman:

I think if people start to practice by using a program like this, it creates a way to start doing something. Maybe that you haven't thought about doing it that way before, but then they'll start to come up with their own ideas and maybe they'll be able to start going. You know what our kids really need in this area. Like if you're in Texas, maybe the kids have a. It's a totally different thing than if you're in, you know, logan, utah, where the weather's different and the available, the type of things that are available for you to do are different. So in each location people are going to have different needs and I hope that they can start to recognize that those needs are, that there are different ways that they can fill those needs.

Scott Brandley:

One of the things I love about what you're doing is you said you mentioned it earlier I think it comes down to an 80-20 rule where you've got 20% of the wards that are probably putting in a real effort and doing something, where it is creating a spiritual experience on a regular basis and the kids are actively involved.

Scott Brandley:

But I think 80 of the time the adults get busy. They have good intentions but they it just gets lost in the shuffle and they miss the opportunities to really affect the kids in a positive way and teach them an experience that they're going to remember, that can help them in their life. So the thing I love about what you're doing I love the story behind it, how it brings the, brings the kids into an adventure, into a familiar story that they've been taught their whole lives about nephhi and how they can become like Nephi and do things like Nephi's doing and have it be productive, have them learn new skills, have them have a spiritual experience, bring it all together. I think not only that, but I think it can tie the group together as a whole. It can unify them behind a common purpose and a common goal where they have those things that they do every time to to reach and get the pin at the end. I love it. I do. I think it's freaking awesome.

Josh Chapman:

Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, I did want to say like I want to be really clear. I do not believe that the church accidentally left something out of the youth, the children and youth program.

Scott Brandley:

Right.

Josh Chapman:

The brethren are deliberate, they are inspired and guided by God. They did not make a mistake. But this is where my homeschooling background comes in. I see things a little differently and I was taught to self-educate. I was taught to build systems and to recognize gaps and then fill them. I did that professionally and I'm still doing that. And so as I studied this and prayed about it and tested it, I think it's really important to understand that the Lord intended for us to build. He intended for us to ask what lack I yet? And then go and work and fulfill those things that are missing in our own spheres.

Josh Chapman:

And I have a scripture to share. It's Doctrine and Covenants 5827. It says verily, I say men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause and do many things of their own free will and bring to pass much righteousness. And I've just kind of come to the realization that I'm going to have to go out and do some things on my own without bringing the whole church with me. The church I'm not in charge. I don't have any delusions that I'm here to guide the church or anything like that. I'm just trying to create something that people in the church can use to their advantage, left the space inside of the youth program blank so that you and me and Alicia and everybody else can fill it with something that's meaningful for them. And if that's not working right now, I invite you to consider, come over here and have a look and see if this might work for you, and if it doesn't, let me know why it doesn't and I'll and I'll come up with a solution for you, because I have time now, I can do that, and I also think that um, president Nelson said over and over to seek personal revelation, and that includes how we raise our families and how we serve in the church.

Josh Chapman:

For me, nephi's apprentice was born out of that wrestle. I didn't feel like I had a place anymore in the youth programs once. I just haven't had that much involvement. But maybe I wasn't supposed to wait for that calling, maybe I was meant to create something. So this is what I'm doing now.

Josh Chapman:

It's not to replace the church's plan, and I believe that the church has intentionally stepped back to trust the local leaders to figure out what's best for their area, and that's what I'm offering is a way to do that that, hopefully, is streamlined and easier to use and implement and creates, you know, skill, skilled learning, skill learning, testimony building um, discipleship training, and how we can all become a little bit more like nephi later it'll be helaman, captain marone I have so many broken mormon heroes that I can model a module after, and it's going to be. It's going to be really fantastic. I'm really excited to see how the next module comes out. I've got to start, I've got, I've got to see that people want it and and then the next module is coming forth with. So I hope people will come and view it and see what they think.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, and I don't. I don't think anybody watching this is thinking that you're trying to take over the youth program. It's just a tool to help people that don't necessarily the time or the the vision to put together something cohesive that can help their youth. So I really appreciate that. How do they find it, Josh? Where do they go so great? It's a youth forged, so I really appreciate that. How do they find it, Josh?

Josh Chapman:

Where do they go Great. It's youthforgedinfaithcom. Youthforgedinfaithcom. Big red website. You'll know it when you see it and you know, share it with your bishops or your leaders, your parents, and there's an email list you can get on to hear about the new, new things that we're doing and and just help to support us and make it. Make sure that if it matters to you, it matters to me. So and we'll.

Josh Chapman:

We will do more and more of it and, as we start to see people come in and and participate in this, so I look forward to seeing y'all there and and I hope that it'll be a great experience for everyone who participates. I'm glad that. I'm glad that you guys invited me to to share this with you guys and and I. This is a good thing that you're doing. I appreciate that you're spending the time to put this together every day, every week, and what a what a job that's. It's pretty impressive. So I appreciate that and thanks for having me on it's. It's really my pleasure.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah Well, we definitely couldn't do it without viewers like you, who, you know, take the initiative to reach out and share stories and who, like, have stories to share, you know, like, who recognize that they have experience and they have value and have, you know, a way that they can get light out there to the world. So thank you for, you know, being brave, reaching out, putting together this program and just having it be accessible to other people.

Josh Chapman:

You're welcome. Thank you, it's good to meet you guys.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, thanks for being on, josh. Thanks everyone for tuning in. If you have a story that you would like to share, go to latterdaylightscom or go to email us at latterdaylights at gmailcom, and do your five-second missionary work. Go share Josh's story. Let's get this out there so people can start using his Nephi's Apprentice program and help the youth. I mean they need help more than ever. They need help, they need direction. If you're a busy leader and you need some help and some direction in your youth program, this is an awesome way to really bring your youth together in a really cool way that's in line with the church's direction and teaching. So go do it, and thanks again, josh, for being on. Thanks everyone for tuning in and we will see you next week with another edition of Latter-day Lights. Take care.

Josh Chapman:

Thank you, have a good night, take care. Bye-bye, bye-bye, thanks guys.

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Scott Brandley

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Alisha Coakley

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