Revisiting the Via Dolorosa - Christ's Final Steps To The Cross: Dr. Trina Boyce - Latter-Day Lights

What if the path Jesus walked to the cross was something you could actually walk today — and what would it teach you about Him?

On this week's special Easter episode, we bring back Dr. Trina Boyce to share more about the Via Dolorosa — an ancient 2,000-foot path winding through the Old City of Jerusalem that traces the final hours of Christ's life, from His condemnation by Pontius Pilate to His burial in the tomb. Christians around the world have been making this sacred pilgrimage for centuries, yet most Latter-day Saints have never heard of it.

Trina walks us through all 14 stations of this powerful journey, uncovering stunning parallels between the sacrifice of Isaac and the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and diving into the rich symbolism hidden inside the Jewish Passover Seder. She also shares what it was actually like to be there — walking ancient stones, hearing hymns sung in dozens of languages, and feeling the Spirit in one of the most spiritually charged places on earth.

Whether or not you ever make it to Jerusalem, this episode will bring the Savior's final hours to life in a way that's both deeply moving and surprisingly accessible — a perfect listen for the Easter season.

*** Please SHARE Trina's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/6c6zl-uDKr8

-----

To LEARN MORE about Trina, visit: https://www.TrinaBoice.com

To LEARN MORE about Trina's author coaching services, visit: https://www.frombook2business.com/

To READ Trina's book, "Via Dolorosa," visit: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/via-dolorosa-christs-path-to-the-cross?srsltid=AfmBOoriQlGGDu7ngEuLrfu0GN38cg1FUe-z7ovPv7bYXO6i-NCc9pD6

To READ Trina's book, "The Language of Heaven," visit: https://a.co/d/4j5b4kX

To LISTEN to Dr. Trina's podcast, "Daily Inspirational Quote," visit: https://open.spotify.com/show/17RPUlzByZQVu4zmqktoZ0?si=86c6033495a048f1

-----

To READ Scott’s new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

-----

Keep updated with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latter.day.lights/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaylights

Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

#LDSPodcast #ChristianStories #LatterDayLights

Transcript

A Book Gift And Quick Sponsor

Scott Brandley 0:00

Hey there, as a Latter Day Lights listener, I want to give you a very special gift today. My brand new book, Faith to Stay. This book is filled with inspiring stories, powerful discoveries, and even fresh insights to help strengthen your faith during the storms of life. So if you're looking to be inspired, uplifted, and spiritually recharged, just visit faith2.com. Now, let's get back to the show. Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Speaker 1 0:31

And I'm Darla Brandley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite hope, and inspire others.

Scott Brandley 0:39

On today's episode, we're going to learn about the famous Via Dolorosa, the path where Jesus walked from condemnation to crucifixion and ultimately resurrection. Welcome to Latter Day Lights! Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latterday Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today, and we have a really special treat for Easter. We actually invited Dr. Trina Boyce back onto the show to talk to us more about her book about Via Dolorosa and Christ's path to the cross and ultimately to his resurrection. So, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 1:29

Thank you for inviting me back. You guys were so sweet to me last time. And so this time we're talking about Easter stuff.

Scott Brandley 1:38

Yeah. And this is actually really good timing because Darla and I and my family were watching The Chosen. And we just finished season four and we're going into five when Christ goes into Jerusalem. So this will be actually really cool to have this episode and then watch some of those um shows on The Chosen to see kind of where he's at and where he walks on the path.

Speaker 2 2:05

So it's such a fantastic show. They do such a great job. I've been so touched. Every episode gets me teary-eyed. They just really nail it.

Meet Dr. Trina Boyce

Speaker 1 2:18

I think they do that. They do it really well. Yeah.

Scott Brandley 2:22

Well, you've been there, so we can't wait to hear some of your experiences. But before we jump in, tell us a little bit about yourself again, real quick.

Speaker 2 2:31

Uh so I'm Trina. I am a uh university professor at BYU Idaho online. I've been with them for almost 15 years. And in the course of moving to Utah, we just moved. I used to teach full-time at another university. So now I'm teaching as an adjunct part-time at BYUI and at another college in Tennessee. And I am an author of 35 nonfiction books on a variety of topics because I love variety. And I'm also a professional author coach. So I help writers, uh, sometimes writers who are just brand new and trying to figure out the whole publishing world. And so I can help them from developmental ideas, getting the book out there, launch it to the world. And then I have a lot of clients who already have written their books, but they come back and maybe the books aren't selling. And so I look at what they've done with their marketing strategy, and then we move forward from there. And then I'm a film critic. I love, love movies. And I uh had just moved to Utah, and so I joined our little book club, and I find that I don't have that much time to read a lot of books, so I end up watching the movie version of the books, if they have one, in order to talk about them. And then I'm a mother of four sons, and my big claim to fame is my oldest son and I wrote a dating book together, and then it just kind of spiraled into the idea. My son created the LDS app called Mutual. Uh, it's an LDS dating app. And it's yes, I'm so proud of him. And in fact, that app has obviously done so well that they kind of rinsed and repeated the formula and turned it into another app, which is for more mainstream Christian. So my brother uh was the angel investor, and he's not a member of our church, and so, but he recognized it would be a great business app, I mean, an app, an opportunity, which of course it was. And so he said, now let's do one for like mainstream, you know, Christians, evangelicals, protestants, even Catholics. And so they call that one ARC. And I thought, what a cute name, you know, pairing off two by two. Uh-huh. So that the one book that we wrote spun off into two dating apps. So you you never know what life is gonna do. You know, if you I call it fishing poles, I throw out a fishing pole and for an opportunity that I want in my life, and then sometimes nothing happens. I pull in seaweed, you know. Sometimes I pull or throw out a fishing pole and then it turns into something amazing. So, and that's what I tell my clients, my author clients, is don't look at it as just writing a book. You could turn it into online courses or or apps or who knows what else. Anyway, so I'm really proud of him. And I'm actually writing another book right now with my youngest son. And so I'll have to come back and tell you all about that when that one comes out. It should come out this spring, and it's about Rome, and it's called the Seven Hills of Rome and Christ's unique connection to the eternal city, because Rome is called the Eternal City. So we'll talk about Jesus. Now he never went there, as far as we know, but he definitely had Rome influence his life and death. But then Paul and Peter traveled to Rome and were imprisoned and martyred in Rome. And um, have you guys been to Rome?

Speaker 1 6:26

No, no, uh-huh, unfortunately, I would love to, but no, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 6:34

I'm so obsessed with Italy. I served my mission next door in Spain, which so of course I love Spain, but Italy is really special. Which mission in Spain? It was the Spain-Madrid mission.

Speaker 1 6:48

Okay. Uh-huh. So at the time I went to Barcelona, so I was just questioning. Sorry.

Speaker 2 6:55

Yeah, I was just in Barcelona last spring. My husband had never been, so we went back there and so fun. I I love Spain, but I love Italy too, and Rome is just amazing. So, anyway, we're working on that book, my youngest son and I.

Scott Brandley 7:11

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 7:12

I love that book.

Scott Brandley 7:13

So you're you're indirectly responsible for our daughter getting married, which is pretty cool. So thanks for that.

Speaker 2 7:19

Oh, that's amazing. Maybe you might have told me that before. I can't remember, but that's we so amazing. We love hearing stories about that, and people send in thousands of stare uh stories of engagements and weddings, and then when they have their first baby, you know, and uh you know, I write books, but my son is literally building eternal families through his app, and that's just so incredible.

Speaker 1 7:50

That's so fun, so amazing.

Scott Brandley 7:53

Well, um, that we could even talk about that for probably an hour, but let's jump in with I know that's really awesome. Um let actually I'd love to have you and your son on on another episode and talk about mutual because I think that'd be a really fun topic.

Speaker 2 8:12

That would be fun.

Scott Brandley 8:13

Um let's let's put let's put a pin in that one, okay. And let's do that sometime.

Speaker 2 8:19

He's currently deployed, so we wouldn't be able to have him for a little while anyway. The guy is Captain Moroni, he's the modern day Captain Moroni, literally, he's amazing. I mean, because he's in the military, but he's also this you know spiritual giant and leader. He's he's just amazing. Uh from an unbiased perspective, of course.

Scott Brandley 8:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1 8:44

If we can't brag about our kids, what are the what is it for, right?

Scott Brandley 8:49

All right, so let's jump into the the Via Dola Rosa. Talk to us about like from the you know, let's well, let's let's tell tell us where your story begins, I guess. That's what we usually do.

How The Stations Developed

Speaker 2 9:01

Yeah, what is the Via Dola Rosa? Here, I'll hold this up so you guys can see this. Um, and when the publisher first gave me the design, it was all red, you know, because the crucifixion was pretty doggone brutal. And I said, Oh, can we soften that just a tiny bit so it's kind of orange red? Um, so it's not like a happy Easter bunny rabbits and eggs kind of a book. This is the journey that Jesus Christ took in the last hours of his life. So the Via Dolorosa is a literal path in the old city of Jerusalem that tradition holds is the actual path as he wound through the city as it was at the time from condemnation to crucifixion. And when I say condemnation, I mean, you know, when Pontius Pilate was in his praetorium and he washed his hands of Jesus after the crowd said, crucify him. That was the moment, game on. And so that begins the official journey. And so this path, well, via dolorosa in Latin means the painful path or the sorrowing way. Um, because it is that literal route, and it's not a happy, you know, skipping down the streets of Jerusalem kind of a path, as you know. But so it came to be, it started originally back in the 330s AD, when the Roman Emperor Constantine became a Christian and was baptized. And his sweet mother Helena, bless her heart, was also baptized and fell so much in love with Christianity and Jesus Christ, of course, that she wanted to go to Jerusalem and find the exact spots where things happened in the Bible, all of the events of the Bible, or the New Testament, I should say. But specifically, she wanted to find out where did Jesus or where was Jesus crucified. She wanted to build a church and honor him. And so she went to Jerusalem and without the internet or AI to help her, she was able to talk to the people and listen to the oral traditions that had been passed down for 300 years and was able to identify certain locations. And I just think that that's amazing that she did that. And so a few centuries later, there were people, uh, Christian pilgrims going to Jerusalem and visiting these sites. And in the Byzantine era, the route was kind of backwards. They started from the cross and then worked their way up to the Mount of Olives. And then people were like, well, that's confusing. So then they changed it. And then the Roman Catholic Church became very involved, and they really are still very involved, as well as the Armenian Christian Church. And when you go to Jerusalem, there are four quarters: there's the Christian quarter, the Jewish quarter, the Muslim quarter, and the Armenian quarter. And you might be thinking, Armenian, why Armenians? And the answer is simply that they were the first country to officially declare themselves a Christian country. And so between the Armenians and the Catholics, predominantly, give or take, some of these sites, um, they have maintained and built chapels and gardens and uh even monuments, things that that help identify certain things that happened along this way. And then over the centuries, they developed a path of 14, what they call stations or stops along the route. And so what people do today is they start at station number one and then they walk this path. And it's about a 2,000-foot path. It takes two to four hours to walk and wind through the city as you stop and you visit each of these stations. And so in the book, obviously, I walk you through these stations and help you find them. You could literally take my book as a guidebook because I say things like turn left at this street and by the way, buy some of their bread at this store because it's amazing, and then keep walking and say hi to you know, Ahmed or whatever I said, you know. Um, but because it's pretty scary over in Israel these days, uh, you will still get that feeling like you're there because the book is filled with pictures that I took. And I didn't even know the first time I went to Israel that I was gonna write this book. I just happened to take pictures of everything. And when I got home and started thinking about how amazing it all was, I just thought I need to tell people about this because Christians know about the Via Dolorosa, but not very many Latter-day Saints know about this. And it's such a lovely tradition, it's such an amazing experience to go on this path. You see, again, Christians from all over the world singing hymns in all of these different languages and beautiful music I've never heard that we don't have in our church, for example, but you can feel the spirit so strongly, you know they're singing about the savior. It's so touching. You see um monks and friars, and they're often carrying the a wooden cross. You'll see nurses pushing guests and wheelchairs, you'll see Christian groups, churches gathering and traveling together. And um, sometimes they'll stop at each station and talk about what happened at that station. Sometimes they walk in silence. It's so very respectful and just dripping with the spirit. And I love seeing all of these Christians gather to honor and respect and remember the atoning sacrifice that our Savior made for us. It's it's it's just astounding. It's truly amazing. So then over the centuries, there were Europeans first were the ones that started going through this route. And then it became even more popular, and then Americans and of course everybody else around the world, but some Protestant and evangelical groups said, Well, hold on, not all of these stations are actually written about in the Bible. And so they said, How about a list of stations that are truly biblical based? And so the Pope at the time said, You're right, you're right. So he came up with another route of nine stations. But honestly, everybody goes to all 14 because you have to pass through them all to get to the end anyway. So, like I said, nine of them are directly from the scriptures. We know for sure this thing happened, for example. And then they built a church over that site, or they have artwork or sculptures or something on the wall or something about that. And then the other few stations are just handed down from Christian tradition, and they might be true or they might not be, but they all testify of the divinity of the Savior Jesus Christ. And that's not a bad thing, right? And I I just I love it all. And so in the book, I like I said, I walk you through all of them and how to find them and what happened, the scriptures that are related, or the legends that are related to that particular station. And then there is a little bit of culture and some Jewish fun facts. And then every chapter also has a challenge for the readers or the families who might be reading it together on how can you apply those principles in your life and how can you integrate what happened at this station in your Easter celebrations? So um remember in April 2023, President Russell M. Nelson said, Easter is a big deal. Members of the church should make it a big deal, you know. I mean, we we crush it in Christmas, right? But the only reason we celebrate Christmas is because Easter happened. Now it's fun to celebrate Easter because we're talking about a baby uh being born, you know, and how miraculous all that was. And I think maybe we're uncomfortable with this whole uh crucifixion because it's awful. But there were so many beautiful lessons that the savior taught us as he walked this path. You his character is revealed at every single station. The kindness that he showed, the love that he showed, and the forgiveness that he showed to the people all around him, including the Roman soldiers who put that crown of thorns on his head and were whipping him and being so cruel to him, he still showed love and kindness, which is mind-boggling.

Scott Brandley 19:09

I I never heard of it until I heard about your book. I don't have you heard about it before, Darla?

Speaker 2 19:15

No, no, uh-uh. Yeah, well, exactly. That's the thing is members of our church don't really know about this unless you go to Israel and then you find out about it. Uh, but this has been so such a popular pilgrimage for centuries that in modern times they've written songs about it. Um, uh, and I don't have it queued up to play or anything, but and there have been different versions of it as well. Um but it's it's really just fascinating being in Israel to begin with.

Jerusalem Where Faiths Collide

Scott Brandley 19:48

I'd like to know your experience, even going to Jerusalem, what that was like, and then maybe some of the some of the things that really, you know, struck you as you walked the Vela via Dolorosa, what like some of your impressions of some of the highlights?

Ancient Streets And A Living City

Speaker 2 20:05

Yeah, I just absolutely love Jerusalem. It is the most valuable piece of real estate on this planet, it is the most hotly debated parcel on this planet because we see several major religions all claiming it as their inheritance, of course. Uh, well, I should say the Jews, the Muslims, and the Christians, and we all can claim Father Abraham as our spiritual and even our actual ancestor, right? And yeah, and so all of these religions are trying to share this small spot on the planet and worship. And there, I had some interesting conversations with some uh Muslims, for example, it was Friday, which is this the Jewish Shabbat. So on Friday morning, a bunch of Muslims go up to the Temple Mount and they have their special worship service at the Alaska Mosque, which is at the top of the Temple Mount. And then you've seen the Dome of the Rock. It's a round building, it has a gold, shiny dome on the top. So the Dome of the Rock is kind of the big landmark that everybody recognizes when you see a landscape of uh of the city, of the old city of Jerusalem. Jerusalem sprawls much farther beyond the old walls. So when I'm talking about this route, it goes inside these walls. Um, anyway, that dome of the rock is where all three of those religions believe Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac. Oh, really? Which was in similitude of the Savior's sacrifice. There's so many symbols that both Isaac and Jesus Christ shared in that experience. It's just amazing. And right now, there's literally a giant rock inside that dome. But right now, the Muslims control the dome of the rock. And so only Muslims are allowed to go inside. On the mount, where the Alaska moxes and the uh dome of the rock is, that's kind of still all Muslim controlled. You're not allowed to read scriptures for a time. The Jews were not even allowed on the temple mount. And next to here, pretend here's the temple mount. And here's the temple wall, or what Jews believe is the last remaining wall of the second temple that Herod built on top of Solomon's temple. Um, and that temple wall that's called the Western Wall and used to be called the Wailing Wall. I didn't hear anybody wailing. We think of that in negative terms, uh, but I definitely heard the Jews praying. And for them, that is the most sacred spot on earth. And then that Alaska mosque and the Dome of the Rock for the Muslims is very sacred. So I entered in through the Damascus gate and it felt like salmon swimming upstream because thousands of Arabs, Muslims, were leaving the old city. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know who are these people and where are they going and what's happening here. And so seriously, I stood there for probably 15 minutes because all these bodies were coming at me. And finally, I kind of pulled a man to the side, hoping he could speak English. And I said, Who are all of you and where are you going? What is happening? And he looked at me really frustrated, and I felt so bad because I should have known, but I didn't. And he said, We are leaving our service so that the Jews can have their service up on the Temple Mount. And he said, he shook his head and he said, We Muslims are invisible in Jerusalem. And I said, Oh no, you're not. And then he softened and we had a really sweet conversation, but there's still that internal battle, you know. Um, but I loved that they were showing respect, knowing that the Shabbat at dusk, the Sabbath begins at dusk for the Jews, was so special they needed to get out of the city so that all the Jews could come in and they make it work. And I'm sure they have, you know, little moments where they don't get along, I mean, which include bullets and whatnot, sometimes. Um, but generally they're trying to make it work. And so anyway, I finally the rest of the group left, and then I kind of started walking. And the Muslim porter of Jerusalem is really cool. They have the best shops, the best food, the best trinkets, the most amazing stuff. But because all the Muslims were leaving on Friday, a lot of the stores were closing. And so we were trying to look and buy stuff as fast as we could. And then as you follow this route uh through the uh the Via Dolorosa, um, well, I take that back. On that particular day, we went to the Western Wall, and then the Via Dola Rosa actually doesn't go to the Western Wall, it kind of snakes around the city. So the last station on this whole route, the 14th, well, the last five stations, I should say, are all inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which is this massive, massive church, and it has been built over and over and over. And even at one point, it was raised to the ground, and Greek uh Hellenistic buildings were built, and then Christians came back and got rid of that, and they built more churches. So you see this interesting structure, and you can tell where old pieces have been added to other pieces of this building. Anyway, it's huge. And the last station is the tomb where it's believed Jesus was buried. So that's the 14 stations ends in the tomb. And I'm gonna add the 15 station because that's not the end of the story, right? He was resurrected, but inside the church, they have all kinds of little chapels, and you can go all the way down, and even in the basement, there are those who believe that the rock, that dome of the rock, that same rock, was where the Garden of Eden was. And so they claim that there's a rock that had the blood that was spilt uh when Isaac and Isaac was sacrificed or going to be sacrificed, but also where Jesus was crucified. And so you see this rock uh behind glass, and it does have a red stain, and you know, that's partly how legends are born, because honestly, we don't know how many of these sites are authentic. As I mentioned, we have historians and scripture scholars and archaeologists debating over the authenticity of each of these sites along the path. And that's totally fine. I'm fine with that. There, that's how Jerusalem is. It's layer upon layer upon layer of centuries and centuries, thousands of years, right? And I think all of that is so fascinating. When you asked, what is it like being in Jerusalem? I think it is just really fun. I love studying languages and cultures and religions, and you see everything there, all kinds of religious clothing on people, from of course, Jews to Muslims to Christians and every other religion that shows up. And I just think that that's so fun. There is something really special about being in the old city because those are people generally who are there to practice their faith and to pray and to worship in the way that they believe God is, right? And just all of that faith everywhere is so inspiring. I just loved it.

Scott Brandley 28:45

Was there a lot of ancient, like, did it feel ancient still or was it had it been modernized?

Speaker 2 28:52

Oh no, it's very, very ancient. I mean, on this path, the Via Dolorosa, you're you're walking on second century stones, not throughout the entire path, but there are sections where they have tested and they say this is a second century stone, and it's kind of, you know, the browns, lighter brown sandstone, not sandstone, but you know, it it looks so ancient, and that's at the street level. And then when you go down, there's this one place along the path, and they say, This for sure is second century, and it's really close to the Pontius Pilate praetorium. And so they say Jesus had to have walked right here, and their discussion is very compelling and convincing. So whether or not Jesus actually walked on those stones, I don't know. The tour guide let us take our shoes off and stand on our bare feet on those stones, and they look ancient, they feel ancient. Everything feels ancient in the old city. Once you leave the gates, then you've got more modern Jerusalem, you know, with hotels and coffee shops and McDonald's and all of that, which seems so bizarre. But within the walls of the ancient city, no cars are allowed. You are walking. Every now and then I would see like little golf carts that were delivering things to stores and whatnot. But otherwise, everybody is walking on these very narrow streets. There are a few places like in the Muslim quarter where they open up, but then even in the Muslim quarter, some of this the streets with the shops are very narrow. Uh, and it's just dripping with history. It's it really does look like Jesus could turn around the corner and be there, I thought, which makes it so fun.

Speaker 1 30:52

I love that. I love that. And I don't think sometimes it's not important if it's actually, but if it's making you think about Jesus and you're making you think and having that connection with them, that's the important part, right? Whether it's actually actually true or not is is beside the point. I mean, it could be, and so that's awesome. But if even if it isn't, it still connected you, right?

Speaker 2 31:16

Exactly. I agree 100%. I mean, I would love to imagine that I stood exactly where Jesus stood, but we don't have to physically walk in his footsteps to be able to follow in his footsteps in our daily lives, right? That we can follow his example and do what he did.

Scriptures Come Alive In Israel

Scott Brandley 31:36

As you went through um to these different places, and maybe even if it wasn't on the Via Dolorosa itself, what were give us like one or two of the most spiritual experiences, places that you went?

Speaker 1 31:53

That's gonna be hard.

The Stations And Isaac Parallels

Speaker 2 31:56

Well, it's very hard because I was just blubbering every day, like ugly crying every day. You know, people said, Oh, going to Israel is life changing. And I thought, well, I'm not a murderer, like how much is my life gonna change? But it really just here's an example, and so this isn't on the Via Dolorosa, this is just in Israel. So we were going to places where Jesus was preaching and taking his disciples, and we're in an air-conditioned bus. We had left one area, and we drove about 40 minutes, and as we're comfortably driving this distance, I'm thinking Jesus walked with his disciples, and he took them to this very specific place to make a point. Jesus loved object lessons, right? I do too. I love symbolism and I love a good prop when I teach. Uh, and so he took them to this very specific place, and this was a place that was kind of up along the wall of a mountain. And you'll recognize the scripture. The scripture where he's with his disciples, he gets there, and this particular place was a pagan worship place. There were idols and statues, actually, there were shelves built into the mountain where they would put their idols, and uh they had goats and unterrible things they did with goats there, and on and on and on. And so he he's looking at this, and all these people who are engaged in idolatry and all other kinds of things that were not good, and he asked his disciples, Whom say ye that I am? So he's trying to compare and contrast, right? Look at that. Is are is that the true God, or am I Jesus Christ, the Son of God? Like, do you know the difference? Yeah, like, yeah, we know, we get it. You are Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, you know, and all of that. And do you remember the scriptures where he's the same experience, same, they're still there, and he talks about how the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. That phrase. Do you remember that scripture? I should have pulled up my scriptures to read you the whole scripture. So, right next to this mountain where there's idols and sculptures and pagans doing crazy things with goats, there's this creepy dark cave that was literally called by the locals the gates of hell. It's got like black, dripping, gooey, icky stuff. I mean, it looks like it really could be the gates of hell. It's that creepy. And so I never knew that when I read that scripture, that he was standing at that place and referencing real locations in the Holy Land. And so I was just like, oh, wow, okay. Um to me, that's kind of an example of what Israel does is you've read the scriptures, but it brings certain passages to life that you were like, oh, I didn't know. Or for example, when you read, oh, he traveled from this distance to that distance, you know, if you haven't been there, you don't really appreciate these long distances where he was walking with his disciples. And that is so touching. And you just referenced the um the chosen TV series, and they I think they do a really good job illustrating how Jesus and his disciples walked everywhere, and washing of the feet took on this new connotation, right? Because they're dusty. Yeah, they're dusty, they're dirty, they're in pain. And I think that also gives us a new insight into walking in Jesus's footsteps. We should be tired every day doing good like Jesus did, physically tired, you know. Um anyway, so much symbolism. Um, maybe let me tell you what the 14 stations are and what they represent. And uh, just in case you're curious. So, like I said, it starts off at Pontius Pilate's praetorium, and that was kind of like he was the governor at the time. He had some political power, obviously, but it was also under Roman control. So they had Jewish leaders, they had Roman leaders, there was a clash. Obviously, it was very, very politically charged. I mean, it still is pretty politically charged. Um, but there's also debate on where exactly this praetorium was. And there are two really good sites that are very probable, and there are great arguments for either one. So, right now, the the official route begins at this one. You go through the Damascus Gate or the Lion's Gate, and these are gates, and some of them are sealed today. Um, there's one where Jesus is going to come from the east and go through that door, and it has been sealed for centuries. But I saw some YouTube videos recently, and they're starting to kind of crack open, and people are freaking out. Like, what's happening? You know, getting that door, that gate ready. Anyway, so we start off at the praetorium, and that's where the number one station is Jesus is condemned to death by crucifixion, by Pontius Pilate, really by the crowd. And at that site, there's a beautiful church, and then all of these churches, and they're old churches too, beautiful artwork and mosaics and tiles, and they're just done so respectfully, and people are praying or quieting, being quiet, or lighting candles, sometimes singing. Um, so sweet. And sometimes when we would sing our hymns, if other Christians came and spoke English, they would sing with us. And so pretty soon our little group became a lot a really large group, especially when we went up to Shepherd's Field in Bethlehem. So many people know um English Christian carols, right? Christmas carols. And so we it was just our little group inside the small little cathedral, or not cathedral, little chapel. And then by the time we were done, uh, we were like, okay, let's just keep singing. And all these people came out of nowhere and just packed that little chapel and sang together. I mean, that's just so cool. Uh, so station number two is Jesus is scourged, given the crown of thorns, and begins to carry the cross. So again, these are not pretty moments, but it's important to reflect on what happened and to consider. For example, I mentioned um in Abraham when he was getting ready to sacrifice Isaac. There are so many similarities. They both had a journey to take. Jesus literally is walking the Via Dolorosa. Isaac and Abraham traveled three days to get to Mount Moriah, where the sacrifice was going to take place. Three is a number of divinity. It's kind of like God's stamp of approval to say this is a divinely appointed thing. So that number three is significant too. Um, both of them had questions for their fathers, you know, what is happening here? And then Isaac was like, Where's the lamb? Which, of course, is similitude of Jesus, the lamb. There are sheep involved, obviously. Where is that lamb? But there's also that ram in the thicket, when Isaac asks, Where's the lamb? And Abraham says, The Lord will provide. And then they see the ram kind of caught in a thorny bush in a thicket. And that thorn is reminiscent of the crown of thorns that Jesus wore during his procession, you know, you could say as well. Um, let's see, what else? Um, the third station is Jesus falls under the weight of the cross for the first time. There are debates on exactly what the cross looked like. Some say it was the full cross, you know, with the like that. Some say it really was just the cross part because when he got to where he would be crucified, they already had the vertical beam ready and they just needed to nail him to the horizontal piece. I don't know for sure, but he was definitely carrying a very heavy piece of wood. And remember, this is after hours of being scourged and beaten and up all night since the evening before, during the um in the Garden of Gethsemane. Now he's told to carry this cross. And when we think of carrying our cross, how could our burdens ever measure up to what the savior did? And he did so voluntarily, and so did Isaac. At some point, when Abraham said the lamb would be provided, at some point Isaac knew what he was getting into. And it was important that we all know that because both the savior and Isaac had their free agency. They could have said, Nope, I'm not doing that, but they both understood the importance of covenant. So we know that Jesus Christ was crucified when he was about 33 years old, right?

Speaker 3 42:37

Right.

Speaker 2 42:38

And when you look at historical art of Abraham and the sacrifice of Isaac, you know, from centuries, from Byzantine and Renaissance ages and all of that, and beyond even Coptic from Egypt artwork, oftentimes we see a young child being sacrificed by Isaac. But there are actually two words in Hebrew to identify a child. One means actually a young child, but the Hebrew word that's actually used in Genesis is the other one that identifies a youth or a young adult. And because there are so many symbols, I'm gonna venture a guess and say he could have been, Isaac could have also been 33. And the math works out because he was about 37 when Sarah died, which was obviously a few years before this whole sacrifice. So I think that that's super interesting. They both carried wood, right? Jesus carried the cross, and Isaac carried the bundle of wood. Um, so we get him following on this path. Number four is Jesus encounters his mother, Mary, along the way. As a mother, I cannot even imagine. What she was feeling. Right, Darla?

Speaker 1 44:03

Oh my goodness sakes, no, I couldn't. I don't know how I would do that.

Scott Brandley 44:08

Um, yeah, we just in the the the chosen episode we watched today was Christ got went and got the they went and got the donkey. Yes, and he had a moment with his mom, he had a moment with his mom, and and he yelled, he always almost like, maybe you should go back because you don't want to see this. And she's like, No, I'm going with you.

Speaker 2 44:30

You know, we know when he was born, the scriptures tell us that she hid things in her heart, you know, and I often wonder, was she told the whole story? And she knew this was coming. You know, I'm sure she did. I I don't know if she saw, but I love that you pointed out the donkey because there is a donkey in both stories. Isaac and Abraham had a donkey that traveled with them, right? As they were carrying the wood and all of that kind of stuff. And with Jesus' journey to the cross, he rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday on a donkey. And the donkey is significant. Do you guys know what the symbolism is of a donkey?

Scott Brandley 45:15

Um, well, I know that um they used to ride horses when they would win like a battle or something, and that so they always assumed that Christ was gonna come in on a horse, but he came in on a donkey.

Passover Symbols And The Crucifixion

Speaker 2 45:32

Yes. So if he really were going to start a battle and fight against Rome and you know, the Sanhedrin or, you know, the Pharisees or whatever, he could have come in on a war, I mean on a horse, and that would have mean game on, we're ready for the battle. But the donkey is a symbol of royalty. So, for example, King Solomon rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, and I don't think that symbolism was lost on the Jews, they understood he came through the royal line, the Davidic line, right? Um, so I think that's significant. There are also other people involved. For example, before Jesus begins the Via Dolorosa, he and his disciples were up on the Mount of Olives. And then, you know, the soldiers came and Mahem began, and the disciples fled. And so then Jesus was taken alone to Pontius Pilate's praetorium with Abraham and Isaac. Um, they had servants that were helping carry food. Remember, this is a three-day journey. So food and water and provisions. And then at some point, they stayed behind. And then Abraham and Isaac finished climbing up to the Mount of Moriah, where this was going to take place. So the fifth station is when Simon of Cyrene is told by the Roman soldiers to help Jesus carry the cross. You know, he is fainting and tripping and bleeding and struggling. And so they get this random guy who was just kind of on the street with his son, probably walking home or something, or going to the market. And they're like, you help this guy. And I love the one of the lessons we can learn from that is that he he didn't say, Well, wait, it depends on who this guy is and how much am I gonna get paid. He saw somebody in need and he just helped. And I I love that simple lesson that we can learn from Simon the Sirene. I and of course there are more lessons, but you know, I don't have time to go through all of them. But um, the sixth station is now these so far, what we've read or what we've talked about, they're all biblically based. So the sixth one is the first one where we're like, ah, it's not really in the scriptures. And so there's this story about a girl named Veronica, and she sees Jesus. And again, he's bloody and sweaty and dirty and beaten, and she has a handkerchief and she gives it to him to wipe his brow and his face, and then he goes, he keeps going along the path, and then she looks at the cloth, and the imprint of his face is in the fabric. Now, I don't know if that's a true story. I would imagine that there were many tender-hearted girls and women, men even, standing along these roads, these paths, you know, maybe trying to help. Certainly, some followers of Jesus were there. Um, but the Romans were not letting them help a whole lot. Um, but there's another angle with this Veronica. In Latin, the word truth is based, or the I should say the name Veronica um uses the same root for like veracidade, which is truth and virtue. And so did the legend just come to be, or did they not know the girl's name? And they're just saying this is the true son of God. I don't know. And there's more discussion to be had about this particular station, but I think it's interesting. Um, and at that particular station, it's not I I should have mentioned some of these other ones are churches and beautiful thing, places and things that you can see, and even interspersed between the official stations. There are other things you can see. For example, between the first two stations, there's or no, I think it's station two and three, there's a prison under the ground with second century stone, and it has kind of like a stockade that they claim Jesus was in. And he very well could have been, where his um his feet were kind of like in a stockade. He couldn't move and he had to sit in that position with his arms and his feet in these stockades for hours and in this like dungeon that's dark and dank and just beyond our comprehension. The seventh station is Jesus falls a second time, and we do read that in the scriptures. We don't know the exact location, but you know, throughout the centuries they think it is at this particular spot. Uh, and in fact, at this particular spot, all of the walls in the city are made out of stone, and the ground is made out of stone. And in this stone, there's this indentation, and they say that Jesus started to fall, and he put his hand up against the wall and his forehead to kind of catch his balance. And so some believers believe that that imprint uh in the stone is from that place where he stumbled and fell. Is it? I don't know, but it causes me a chance to pause and reflect on how difficult that would have been. Uh, the eighth station represents when Jesus speaks to the women of uh Jerusalem who are weeping for them. Now that is scriptural. We know that happened. And so we see an area. Um, and every time I walk by, I've seen other church groups, Christians reading the scripture and the things that Jesus said to the woman. Well, so he's basically saying, you know, if you knew what was coming, you'd really cry hard. I mean, he said it in a much nicer way than that. But just like, you know, Israel, I've been trying to help you this whole time and on and on. Anyway, and there are some sweet things that he says in there as well. So then we get to where number nine, the ninth station. Let's see if I'm missing any. Jesus falls a third time. Now, this third time is really significant. So I mentioned there are gates around the old city. And so when you cross over a gate, oftentimes there's a threshold. It could have been made out of stone or wood or something. There could have been uh metal gates, they could have been wooden gates, you know. Some of them are stone gates, like I said, the one that's still sealed. And so the the one that he walked through is called sheep's gate, because that was the gate where how do I describe that? Everything inside the gate is the city at the time. And so walking out has you exiting the city, and right outside there was the sheep's field, where they were gathering all the sheep and selling them, because that was the gate people would enter to offer sacrifices. So they would buy a sheep and they would come in through that gate and then go up onto the temple mount and sacrifice the sheep. That is so symbolic, of course, because that sheep that field would have been packed full of sheep because Jesus was crucified during Passover. And that's another similarity between Isaac and Jesus. So, according to Jewish tradition, Isaac was born on the first day of Passover. Now, if you look at the Hebrew calendar, you can calculate and see, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we know that Jesus was born in the springtime. It was lambing season, April 6th. And so there are Jews and Christians who believe that Jesus was also crucified on the first day of Passover. Now it's tricky because he was actually in the upper room having his Passover meal with his disciples. Remember? The night, the first night of Passover, and then all of these events happen kind of that next day in the morning hours and then into the afternoon as he's traveling through this path. Um, but I think the timing is really symbolic because he is the Lamb of God, of course. Let's see, so then um, number 10, Jesus is stripped of his clothes at Golgotha. So now, as you've wound around, um, it takes you to this church of the Holy Sepulchre, that big church I was telling you guys about. And so there are several locations, but when you walk into the courtyard of the church, there are some big Roman columns. And so there are historians and scripture scholars that believe that he would have been tied to maybe one of these rolls, these big big columns made out of stone. Everything's made out of stone, pretty much. Um, and then that's where they would have beaten him. This is where he's beaten with the whips that have glass and shards and shells and bones just ripping his back. And I mean, they did some scourging way back at the very beginning, too, but now they strip him, and all he has really is mostly a loincloth because they've stripped his robe that he would have worn. And the clothing of a servant is generally that that kind of loincloth. You guys can picture that, right? Um, yeah, and when we read about um the last supper when he was celebrating Passover, ironically, which is all about Jesus, uh, when he did that with them in the upper room, before or part of that evening with the disciples, it says in scriptures, he took off his robe and was dressed like a servant. Because back then only servants would wash your feet. But do you remember what he did? He washed all of the disciples' feet, every one of them. Yeah, as a servant. And so there he is again, being stripped of that, whatever beat-up cloth he had as a robe at that point. They've now taken that off, and he looks like a servant, and he's being beaten like a servant, and he's getting those stripes on his back through this whip. Have you ever seen matzah bread, Jewish matzah bread that they eat during Passover?

Scott Brandley 57:05

I don't know if I have.

Speaker 1 57:06

It's got stripes on it.

Speaker 2 57:09

Yes, yes. So the Jewish Passover is uh a tradition back thousands of years, going back to when Moses rescued the Israelites from being slaves in Egypt, right? And because they had been trying to get the Pharaoh to just release them so they could leave. And of course, then we had got the 10, you know, all the plagues and all of that. Finally, Pharaoh, after his firstborn son, symbolic, of course, was killed as one of the plagues. Pharaoh was just like, get out of here. I don't want to see any of you again. And so the people didn't have time to have the leaven in their bread rice. So they they had their their bread dough, and they just quickly baked it on a grill, making those marks. And so today, Jews, of course, Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They generally don't talk about Jesus, they're focused on Old Testament prophets and commandments, and they are extremely faithful. And I admire them so much for that. But all of the food that's eaten during the Passover absolutely is symbolic of Jesus Christ. That that bread, that masa bread being just one of the many foods. Darna, have you gone to a Passover meal before? It's called a Seder.

Speaker 1 58:37

No, no, I have never. That would be so interesting.

Speaker 2 58:40

It is very interesting. There are various parts uh on the planner. It's very ceremonial, and they even have a special booklet that they read through that includes prayers and songs, and they go through this whole ceremony, almost like a play. And um, and the food isn't great. I mean, it's all symbolic. They will supplement it with better food because it is a meal, modern-day meal. But for example, they have a lamb shank, the shank bone of a lamb, which is all about Jesus Christ. They've got the matza bread, and what they do is they get a napkin and they'll put, they'll have a big matza bread, and generally they're round. You can buy them in a in a Jewish store, and they're square crackers, you know. But back then they would have been round. Um, think of like a pizza pie kind of you know, thing, but flatter. Um, but anyway, they'll break it uh in, they'll take the larger piece and the smaller piece, and they have um fabric like a napkin, and they will hide one of the pieces inside the napkin. What does that make you think? Think about Jesus. What is bread a symbol of? His body, his body. So it's he's in his burial clothes. Yeah, so you put that bread inside the linen representing when he was crucified and he was wrapped in the shroud and buried in the tomb, right? Um, so that's one element of it. Um, oh, there's so many more. I could spend more time. They have this thing called karoset, which is like uh apples and walnuts and celery, almost like a Waldorf salad, which that's probably one of the better tasting things. And that's supposed to represent the mortar that went in between all of the stones that the Egyptian, that the slaves, the Israelites, as they were slaves in Egypt, as they were building these monuments to the Pharaoh. So that was to remind them of how difficult it was to be a slave. And then they have bitter herbs. Sometimes they'll get something like parsley and they'll dip it in salted water, and that represents the tears that the Israelites shed while they were in captivity. Um and then they have wine, of course. And depending on what type of Jew you are, they might have four or five glasses of wine. And what does the wine represent? The blood of Christ. Yeah, the blood of Christ. Now to us, it's so obvious. And I'm a gospel doctrine teacher in my ward, and I'm all every single time I teach, I always say everything points to Jesus Christ. We can read the New Testament, we see Jesus, and we see how he fulfilled things, prophecy prophecies, promises, blessings from the Old Testament. That there were so many stories and characters and lessons to be learned in the Old Testament that taught us about Jesus. And God was trying to do that. So when Jesus did come, the Jews who'd been celebrating Passover for thousands of years would recognize Jesus Christ. Some did, some didn't. But anyway, okay, so I'm kind of went off on a tangent, didn't I?

Speaker 1 1:02:18

Interesting tangent, though.

Speaker 2 1:02:22

I think all this stuff is fascinating, obviously. It's so fascinating. I actually do have in this particular chapter where I'm talking about this station, I go into all of the details and the symbols, you know, of all of these things and this gate as well. Um, here's something that's kind of fun. This uh golden gate is the one that's sealed. And Christians and Jews and Muslims have all heard the prophecy that the Messiah, when he comes, will go through that gate, right? Um, another interesting thing that's happening on that gate wall is, and I've seen pictures and videos of it. It's kind of mind-boggling. There are stains appearing on the wall. Guess what they say in Hebrew? Take a while. Jehovah? I don't know. Yes, yes, that's crazy. So if if I had a picture, I would show you that the um the gate has this arch, you know, like that, right? It is to the exact measurement in scale of the new logo or symbol of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You know what the logo is I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 1:03:49

The arch over Christ.

Easter Traditions And Tenebrae Service

Speaker 2 1:03:52

And Jesus is standing there in that arch at the golden gate, and it just love that, right? Because you can look at all kinds of arch gates and compare them to gates and arches all around the world, and they don't line up. This one is the exact. Okay. I know it's crazy. Uh, all right, so where are we? We are okay. So Jesus is stripped of his clothes, he's beaten again. Um, and then Jesus is nailed to the cross. Um, I'm trying to think of some of the other similarities between Isaac and uh Jesus that I wanted to share, but now I'm drawing a blank. But there are even more. Um there and in this particular chapter, I talk about crucifixion and the actual nails. And this is not going to be news to you, but when someone was crucified, they could be tied to the wood with rope. If they were, if the Romans were being really mean or they thought their prisoner was a horrible criminal, then they would put a nail in the hand, and so they would be that way. There are illustrations from history that show that, you know, we see a lot of artwork where Jesus' feet are like that, or even like that on the cross, right? As he's hanging on the cross. But there have been other documents found where uh the prisoner or the criminal was straddling the being that went like this. So there were several different ways of crucifying. They were all extremely brutal, of course. But I go into more depth. Um, so this isn't like a fun, family friendly story to share with little children, but certainly to introduce them to some of these general ideas. And as you maybe include some of these stories or Chapters in your family's Easter celebration this year. You know, you take into account their age and their interest because I go into a lot of detail on each of these stations. But anyway, he's on the cross. And then the 12th station is he dies on the cross. And inside this church, there are just incredibly ornate uh decorations and paintings and sculptures. Inside the church, it's very dark. There's incense because there are different churches that are having uh worship services, like Catholics, Armenians, where very, very Orthodox uh type of rituals. And I know there are some members of our church who might go in and say, Oh, I don't feel the spirit here. It this is not like our beautiful, light, bright, airy temples, you know. And yet I absolutely felt the spirit there because so many people were there to worship, and and it caused me to reflect. And the ceilings are high. And anytime you see vaulted ceilings and flying buttresses or you know, gothic arches or Roman arches and gothic uh windows or whatever, it causes your eyes to gaze upward. And I love that personally, but it is different than our Sunday chapels and certainly our temples. But God is everywhere if you can hear him and see him. Well, see him, we wish, but but to feel him certainly. So He died on the cross, and this is upstairs. As you've walked up, these stairs are really cool, they're made out of stone and they wind up to an upper floor. And these stairs, like I said, have were constructed over centuries, and you see the grooves of millions of Christian pilgrims who have followed up that set of staircase, that stairs, uh, which to me warmed my heart so much to thank all of these people who have come for centuries to thank our Savior for what he did. It's so touching. So then you have to go back down the stairs, and there is the stone of function, it's called. It's a big stone where they would have laid Jesus' body, and the women would have uh taken care of his body, dressed it, put ointments on it, um, wrapped it to prepare it for burial. And so they're down there, they're beautiful murals that show um Mary, his mother, looking on, and then the women coming to take care of his body. And it that also is so touching. And they have um other things right in that area, and you see pilgrims kissing the stones and praying over the stones, you know, and some may look at that and say, well, that's just sort of silly. I don't know. But I thought it was sweet. It's from the the pureness of their heart to show in the way that they know how to express gratitude. Yeah. So then the last station is this tomb. Now they're not saying this is the exact tomb, they're saying this is what a second century tomb would have looked like, and and you can go inside it, which is fascinating. And um, and then just I mean, on and on and on. There are so many layers and levels of this whole church, you can spend hours there. It's amazing. But like I said, that 14th station is the tomb, and so what I like to do is after being there, is to go over to the garden tomb area, which is closer to where the Pontius Pilate Praetorium is. It's just one site that could be where Jesus was buried, uh, because he was out, he was buried outside the city walls in a borrowed tomb, remember? And and again, nobody there says this is the tomb, but this is the area. And even President Kimball, back in the 80s, I think it was, said this is probably could be the area. Um, and if it's not right here, it's close by because it just is a logical place. So there are those who really believe that Jesus was wrecked resurrected at the site of the church at the Holy Sepulchre, and then there are those who believe it was the garden tomb. Both sites have pros and cons, you know, that you could say, yeah, that you could debate both of them. And again, it doesn't matter where he was resurrected. What matters is that he was resurrected. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. Of course, I go into a lot more detail in the book, but I wanted to hear from you two. What are some sweet traditions that your family has as you try to prepare for and celebrate Easter?

Scott Brandley 1:11:32

Um, I well, like most probably members of the church, we haven't really had a ton of spiritual traditions. Like I think I think that's something that was inspired for President Nelson to to bring up. But um because yeah, like my whole life I grew up thinking that it was just a day to get candy from the Easter bunny.

Speaker 2 1:12:03

Yeah, bunny rabbits, egg, hopping races, yeah. You know, you go to church in the morning, but then it's a lot of fun nonsense. I agree too. I think that that was super inspired. And like I said, uh as members of the church, we crush Christmas. We're so great at creating these live nativities and nativity collections. Have you probably seen those at your church or your stake sponsor or you know, special events, choirs, shows, all of pageants, all of that stuff. And so, because now I just moved to Utah, I'm really curious to see. So far, I've seen an invitation for a special pageant of music and the spoken word in my stake. So I'm super excited to go and see what that's all about. That always so fun.

Scott Brandley 1:12:52

My uncle's steak is doing something like that. They're recreating the tomb.

Speaker 2 1:12:57

Yeah. There's uh, I think it was last Easter maybe. Um, I was living in Las Vegas, and there was a Catholic church that was featuring what they call a tenebrae service, and so and I wanted to see it, and I invited my whole family, and they all had different stuff. So I went by myself and I got there and you know, sat in a Catholic pew. And I've been to many, many Catholic churches over the years. I served my mission in Spain, and anyway, and I just think Catholic cathedrals are kind of amazing. But anyway, um, so I sat there and I wasn't sure exactly what to expect. But what they did was sort of reenact the crucifixion. Now that you might be conjuring up in your mind some horrible stuff, um, because sometimes Catholics can get very graphic and bloody. And I saw a lot of that in Spain. But what they do is they had up in the front, they had a bunch of candles, and so they had a choir, which was fantastic. And sometimes the whole choir would sing, sometimes it would be a duet or a single performer or whatnot. So they would have a song, some kind of a musical number, and then they would have um some kind of a person who was reading from the scriptures or reading a narrative, and then they would snuff out one of the candles, and then back to the music, back to the scriptures, snuff out a little candle. So slowly the room is getting darker and darker until finally that last candle goes out. This was like a two and a half hour service. Um, finally, the last candle goes out, and they told us at the beginning this is what was going to happen. So when the last candle goes out, the lights in the whole chapel. Uh and when I say chapel, you're probably imagining the size of maybe an LDS chapel. It wasn't a cathedral, which is quite large. So larger than a chapel, but smaller than a cathedral. Anyway, this big space, the whole thing turns dark. And then they told us bang on your wooden bench, you know, the pews that we were sitting on, bang it like this. So it would sound like thunder. So we're banging the wood benches and yelling and screaming to sound like the frightened people and the lightning, and you know, and we probably did that for two or three minutes, which felt like forever. And then we were told to be quiet. And then it was probably dark and quiet for maybe another two minutes where you could reflect on the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, his actual death. And then slowly the lights came back on, and then everybody was uh asked to leave quietly so that you wouldn't disrupt that reverent feeling and that experience would remain in your heart as you, you know, left the church and then went out your way on the on the way home. And I thought that was so interesting and kind of cool, really. I really enjoyed it. And the music was just gorgeous. These were hymns and songs I had never heard before. And yet the Catholics, you know, uh sometimes they have the audience sing along and they're singing the song, and I didn't know the the words or the uh even the melodies, you know, but it was beautiful. And again, I just thought that that was so appropriate because it was focusing on that moment of the sacrifice and how grateful I am for that sacrifice.

Speaker 1 1:16:40

Absolutely. I don't know where we would be if we didn't have him sacrifice for us. So it's it's everything.

Speaker 2 1:16:48

Yeah, exactly. It's everything.

Scott Brandley 1:16:52

Wow. Well, this has been super fun and informative again. Okay, thanks so much for coming on and and sharing some of your insights, uh, especially from you know the final moments of Christ's life. Any last thoughts you'd like to share before we kind of wrap things up?

Speaker 2 1:17:11

Um, maybe just the last message of pure love that God so loved the world, God so loved us that he was willing to do a hard thing, to watch his only begotten son die, right? And then Jesus loved us so much that he was willing to die for us. That's incomprehensible to me. Uh I I just find that amazing. Uh yeah, that just that that love was so pure and that that sacrifice was given willingly. And yeah, there are no words. How could you possibly even describe? Actually, I'll take that back. I'll tell you a Jewish Hebrew word. The word is Hesed, which is a word that we can't translate easily in English, but it means loving kindness connected to a covenant, uh, given willingly. Um, and that God wants us to be part of his covenant, he wants to bring us home as many as of as us as he possibly can. And that type of love is inspiring.

Scott Brandley 1:18:36

Yeah, I think this is just very appropriate for the season. And no, just thank you for being willing to share your thoughts and and your experiences with with us and with those that are listening, because honestly, most people won't make it to Jerusalem in their lifetime. And if they are, they're super lucky. And and but we get to live through you, through your experience, and and through your story. So it's really nice that you wrote it down so that you know we can experience a part of that um through through your experience. So we thank you for sharing that with us today.

Speaker 2 1:19:15

Thank you so much again for the invitation, for the chance to talk about Easter. It's early this year, it's April 5th. So get those crosses up. I don't know. What are we gonna how are we gonna decorate? In the book, I have lots of ideas for family. So trying to veer towards Christ and less you know, less bunny rabbit ears, which I put on my kids every year, and they're grown adults now, and they still they do it willingly because they know it makes me happy.

Scott Brandley 1:19:52

Yeah, uh, we have a tradition that ever since when I was a kid, my dad did he would make little rhyming poems and hide them around the house, and you had to go solve the riddle to get to your candy. Oh I've been I've been trying to put in a little more Christ into that rather than Easter bunny, but I love that, you know, yeah, and then also too, as I in the one chapter I explain a lot about the Passover Seder.

Speaker 2 1:20:19

That would be a really special dinner to have in honor of Easter, you know, maybe as you're on Easter Sunday or you know, the night before or something like that. That'd be very cool.

Scott Brandley 1:20:31

Yeah, well, and so where can people get your book?

Speaker 2 1:20:35

Oh, that's kind of you to ask. So uh you can find it on Amazon, which is the easiest way to go. You can find it under Via Dolorosa, Christ's Path to the Cross, or you could look for my name, Trina Boyce, and all my books will pop up, or you can find it in LDS bookstores, especially if you live in Utah. If you don't, then Amazon might be your best route. And then you can find all my other books and the other one that we talked about, the Hebrew words book, uh, that is so fun for this year that we're studying the Old Testament.

Speaker 1 1:21:10

Yeah, I'm excited. I actually want to read it so bad, so we're good. Did I, Scott, did I send you a copy of this Via Dolorosa book?

Scott Brandley 1:21:18

No, but we'll we'll get a copy.

Speaker 2 1:21:21

Darla is an avid reader, she'll well I'll send you a digital copy to get you started.

Scott Brandley 1:21:28

There you go.

Speaker 2 1:21:30

Perfect.

Scott Brandley 1:21:31

She loves reading Autor Kindle, so that'll be great. Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks again, Trina, for coming on, and thanks everyone for tuning in. Hope you got some really good information. And go ahead and hit that share button, do your five-second missionary work. Let's get this story out there, especially with Easter right now. You've got a really unique window of opportunity to really do some missionary work and talk about Christ in a way that doesn't put walls up, right? So go ahead and hit that share button, get this message out there. This is a message about Christ and and the wonderful sacrifices that he made for us. And if you have a story you'd like to share, like Trina, go to latterdaylights.com and fill out our form. Let's have you on the show. And until next week, um, have a great one, and we will talk to you soon. Thanks. Take care.