What Really Happened to Frederick G. Williams? : Sherrie Dunford's Story - Latter-Day Lights

What happens when a forgotten piece of Church history becomes a personal calling?

In this episode of Latter-Day Lights, Sherrie Dunford shares the story of her ancestor, Dr. Frederick G. Williams—early Church leader, counselor to Joseph Smith, physician, and one of the most misunderstood figures of the Restoration.

Through spiritual promptings and years of research, Sherrie felt compelled to finally tell the story of a man whose faith endured hardship, loss, and public misconception with her book, “Whatever Happened to Frederick G.?”

As she retraces Frederick G. Williams’ life, Sherrie reflects on the sacrifices of the early Saints, the realities of Kirtland and Missouri, and the quiet humility that defined her ancestor’s legacy. This conversation is a moving look at perseverance, loyalty, and the power of remembering the stories that shaped the founding of the Church.

*** Please SHARE Sherrie's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/LfhGN2l5Wfg

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To READ Sherrie’s book, “Whatever Happened to Frederick G.?” visit: https://a.co/d/043THKOu

To LEARN MORE about Sherrie’s work, visit: https://www.sherriefarrdunford.com

To READ “The Life of Frederick G. Williams: Counselor to the Prophet Joseph Smith” by Frederick Williams, visit: https://a.co/d/0fLOqgMC

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To READ Scott’s new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

Transcript

Intro

Scott Brandley 0:00

Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Darla Brandley 0:02

And I'm Darla Brandley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite hope, and inspire others.

Scott Brandley 0:10

On today's episode, we're going to hear about a descendant of Dr. Frederick G. Williams, counselor to Joseph Smith, and how she uncovered the story of her ancestors and found a story that needed to be told. One of faith, hardship, disappointment, and ultimately of triumph in love. Welcome to Latter Day Lights.

Welcoming Sherrie Dunford to the show

Scott Brandley 0:47

Welcome, Sherry.

Sherrie Dunford 0:48

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Scott Brandley 0:50

Yeah, we're glad you're here. I was talking a little bit before the show. I'm excited to hear your story. Um, I know you're going to talk about your ancestor, Frederick G. Williams, which a lot of people have probably heard the name, but they don't really know much about him and church history. But uh so there's a lot of fun things that I that I'm excited to hear about today. But before we jump in, why

Sherrie in a nutshell

Scott Brandley 1:15

don't you tell people a little bit about yourself?

Sherrie Dunford 1:17

All right. I would love to. I was born and raised in Provo, Utah. I was I went to Provo High, Go Bulldogs, but that was a long, long time ago. I actually met my husband there, Craig. And we have seven children, uh, five natural children and two adopted children. And so we have a great family of sort of an assortment, but they're all pretty fabulous. We love them all. Um, I went to BYU. I have two degrees from there, a bachelor's and a master's degree in music. I'm a musician. I taught music in the public schools for 32 years and am now retired, which is nice, although I still run a music studio where I teach private lessons. I play the harp, the piano, and the violin mostly, because I taught strings in school, and uh so I had to learn those, but harp is my main instrument. I just finished a run of playing for um Lamb of God in Payson, which was a wonderful experience. I loved doing that. I work in the Paysin Temple every week, and what a privilege it is to be there. I love being in the temple, and some of those people have become my best friends who really enjoy it. I never thought I'd write a book, but I did, and that's what I've come to tell you about. That's awesome.

Scott Brandley 2:49

Sounds like you're more busy after retiring than you were when you were working.

Sherrie Dunford 2:53

I don't know how I ever found time to go to work. I do stay busy.

Darla Brandley 3:00

That's good.

Scott Brandley 3:01

That's awesome. Well, um, thanks for sharing uh sharing a little bit about yourself, and we're really excited to hear about your ancestry today. So we're gonna turn the time over to you and and you can tell us where your story begins.

Sherrie Dunford 3:17

Very good. Thank you so much. I love

Sherrie introduces her book, “Whatever Happened to Frederick G.?”

Sherrie Dunford 3:20

to tell this story, and when I ask people if they know who Frederick G. Williams is, they have the same reaction that you gave me. Uh I yeah, I recognize that name, but I don't know who he was. Or no, have no idea who he is. I get one of those two responses almost always. Um, I didn't really write the book so that people would know who he is, but rather know what he did, because there is a lot of misconception about him. Um, most people that know anything about him think maybe he was an apostate or even one of those who tried to kill Joseph, and neither of those is true. So I'm trying to tell the true story, but my basic reason is to tell the lessons of his life. Um the book is called Whatever Happened to Frederick G? As a child, uh, our family knew him. We all knew him as Frederick G, and we talked a lot about him. But I didn't know his story until I was married and read a book called After 100 Years by a lady by the name of Nancy Clement Williams, and she was the daughter-in-law of Frederick's son Ezra. She started out writing a story about Frederick's wife Rebecca, but then it got so interesting to her about Frederick's life that it became about both of them. And when I read that story, I was excited to know more, but I didn't know much more until several years later when I met Nancy's grandson, Frederick G. Williams III, as he is known. And Fred is so he is my cousin. He is a brilliant man who speaks, I don't know how many languages, but certainly Spanish and Portuguese very fluently, like a native. He's been a mission president, he's been all over the world, recently returned from Brazil where he helped to celebrate 150 years of missionaries in South America. He spent many years dedicating himself to finding every scrap of info he could on Frederick G. Williams. Uh, Frederick Dr. Williams, I will call him that most of the time, or President Williams. He wrote a lot of stuff. He was a scribe for Joseph for many years, and he wrote tons of stuff, but only scraps of things about himself. So what we know about him, we have to find it from other people, other people's journals. Um, the main source, to me at least, was his son Ezra's journal, which he talked about his father a lot in there. And so we have that. Um, so the question is,

Why did Sherrie decide to write the book?

Sherrie Dunford 6:20

why did I write a book? I'm I've always loved to write things. I've la I've written a lot of short things, but never a book. Uh my sister and I and a cousin Velma Skidmore were or had organized a Williams family organization, and we had a lot of fun putting family reunions together. And they uh Velma was a go-getter, I'm telling you, can concerning Dr. Williams, she knew so much. And so when my sister and I got on board with her, we just had so much fun. And we also always intended to tell this story, but when my sister died in 2003, it was not fun for me anymore. And I sort of gave up on it. We did a few things, Belma and I, but but it I just sort of gave up on it. But I always had this in the back of my mind that I needed to write this story. And I thought, I'll write a play. We tried that, that didn't work. I'll write something else, I'll do this, I'll do that. And the idea finally came to me that maybe I'll write a book through the eyes of the children of Kirtland. And so that rolled around in my mind for quite a while until one day I was in the celestial room at the Payson Temple, and I heard Father in Heaven say to me, You know that book? And I said, Yeah, it's time to write it. Okay. So I didn't do anything about a week later. I was back in the temple and he said, Want you to go home and write the first page of that book. I said, Okay, so I did. I came home and I typed up what I thought would be the first page. You would not find it anywhere in the book today, but it did give me a start. It gave me a jumping off place. So I went back to the temple the next week, and this is gonna sound crazy. I hope I don't sound too crazy, but this truly happened to me. As I sat in the celestial room, I could feel it full of people. And it was like they were flying around in the room. And I said, Heavenly Father, who are all these people? He said, These are your Williams ancestors who are so excited that you finally started that book. And I could feel Frederick sitting by me. And sorry, I don't mean to get emotional. I'm gonna try not to, because that ruins it. Uh, and I said to him, I don't want to leave because then you won't be here with me. And he said, I will always be with you. So I came home and I started writing and writing and writing and writing. And I thought I was doing a great job, man. I was just doing putting all this stuff together. And of course, Fred, my lovely cousin, who had worked so hard on the history, I'm gonna show you his book. It's a big fat book on Frederick G. Williams that took him years to write, and hit every every single uh fact in here had to be fact-checked because it was uh printed by BYU Studies, and they don't just print any old thing, they check out everything. And so when it finally came out, we all rejoiced. And so now I had a book of all the things about that anybody knew that we were aware of. Of course, we're all hoping that someday we'll find his journal, but I don't think now it's gonna happen. But I put this book by my side and I used it as I wrote this story, and I just went through it and I thought, oh yeah, I want to include that. Oh yeah, I want to include that. And so I turned this factual book into a story, and that's how my book came to be.

Darla Brandley 9:58

That's awesome.

Sherrie meets Richard Paul Evans to help write her book

Sherrie Dunford 10:00

After I'd been writing for about, oh, I'm gonna say eight or nine months, I went to a funeral of my cousin's wife in Salt Lake. And after the funeral, as we members of the church are wont to do, we had a luncheon. And I was sitting there with another cousin, and my cousin, whose wife had died, came over with this couple and they said, Sit right here. I want you to sit right here. He was adamant that they sit right there next to me. And he said, I'll be right back. Sit right here. And I went, Okay. And this man started talking about all the books he'd written and all the movies that they're making of his books and the actors that are in it. And I turned to him and I said, Are you Richard Paul Evans? And he said, Yes, I am. And I said, I'm writing a book. And he said, Okay, I'll help you. And so he gave me his info, and I came home and joined immediately his uh organization that he helps authors, and he's awesome. And now he and I have become good friends, and he and his staff have helped me every step of the way. But I said to Heavenly Father that night, I said, Did you set this up for me? And he said, Do you really need to ask? He knows my sense of humor. I'm sorry, he is the cutest person, the cutest god I know. That's stupid. I don't know why I said that. Anyway. But I understand, I do. Anyway, you know, he talks to each of us the way we understand, and that's the way I understood. And I've been so grateful because those people, not only Rick Evans, but his editor, whose name is Deborah Eyler Rasmussen, has become one of my dearest and best friends. And that book that I thought I was doing so well on, I had to change just about everything as she edited. She said, No, you can't do this, and and you better do that, and let's take out all of these things. And then I send it to the next editor who checked the you know, the grammar and the punctuation and all of that. And I thought, uh, she's probably gonna make about a hundred corrections. And she did about a hundred corrections in every chapter or more, you know. I just I thought I'm better than this, but they helped me and they nourished me and they pulled me along until I had a book that was worth printing, and so we got it printed, and now it is out there, and I'm so happy about it. And so that's how we did this. Um, my book is through

The perspective of Ezra in Sherrie’s book

Sherrie Dunford 12:45

the eyes of President Williams' son Ezra. He had four children. He had a daughter named Lavina, a son named Joseph Swain, who they called Swain, that's his mother's maiden name, and another daughter named Lucy, and then Ezra, who was the youngest of the four. By the time the the church came west, Ezra was the only living child. And so he is the one who tells this story. And he lived to be 81, and he lived in Ogden, Utah. Oh, how fun. I know. That's awesome. Yeah, he lived on Washington Boulevard in the north part of town, and uh, and so he is the one who tells this story, and this truly happened. He his son, Frederick G. Williams II, who was the grandson of President Williams then, uh, was living in Mexico because of polygamy. He had two wives, and so he and he took his family and went to Mexico. And when Ezra knew that he was dying, he called his son Fred up from Mexico because he wanted to tell him his story. That truly happened, and that's what I've got is Ezra telling his story to his son, and also his grandson, whose name is Joseph Frederick Williams. So we have a lot of Freds and a lot of Joseph

The story of Sherrie’s ancestors

Sherrie Dunford 14:15

in this family. But uh it is a really interesting story. So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about it.

Darla Brandley 14:22

Okay.

Sherrie Dunford 14:23

First of all, it is sad, but it is also funny. There are parts in it that really, to me, are hysterically funny and parts that are very sad. It had to be because the story of all of our ancestors, whether or not you've been in the church since 1830, like this family has, or whether you're a new member, you're still a part of this family that had to go through all of these trials that the early church went through. And and they're painful. Some of these stories are very painful. But Ezra told them anyway. He tried to spare some of the worst parts, but he told the story. And uh I'll tell you just uh parts of it. In fact, I what I tried to do is look up some of the things that I wanted to put in the book but didn't because of space, so that you'll still want to read the book because it's oh I will anyway. I'm so glad. Uh people always say, Well, what did happen to him? In fact, Rick Evans asked me that. Well, what did happen to him? And I said, You have to read the book. I'm not telling you. But this is basically the story. So, President Williams' family, his father's name was William Wheeler Williams, and he went by Wheeler. He lived, they lived in Connecticut, he and his wife Ruth. And when Connecticut got the Connecticut Land Grant, which came to be called the Western Reserve, they came west, clear all the way to Ohio, which to us doesn't seem very far west, but to them seemed like the end of the earth.

Darla Brandley 16:07

Yeah.

Sherrie Dunford 16:08

And he was able to buy, get this 11,000 acres in Kirtland or in Cleveland, Ohio. For some he bought it for a song because he promised he would build a mill, find a creek and build a mill, and that's what he did. In fact, he bought he uh built two mills, a grist mill and a sawmill on this little creek called oh, I have to think if I can remember the name of the creek. It's something like Mill Creek, that's it. You know, obvious name, Mill Creek. And that's where they settled there in what became Cleveland. There was only one other house there when they came to Cleveland. I don't even think it was called Cleveland at the time. But right on Lake Erie, and that's where they lived, and that's where Frederick and his

Frederick becomes a physician

Sherrie Dunford 17:00

two brothers and two sisters grew up. Uh sad thing happened when Frederick was about 12. His mother started to go blind. And so Frederick being the oldest uh took a lot of her responsibilities upon himself, and it it uh taught him how to be gentle and caring and kind, which served him well when he became a physician later on in life. And he was a very successful physician, and he was always open to new ideas. What he didn't do was treat his patients with bloodletting, which was really popular at the time, and something called calomel, which was basically mercury, a poison. And as some doctors were treating their patients with that, Frederick opted for more of an herbal doctor. The Thomsonian method is what it was called. And so he learned that system of being a doctor. He apprenticed himself to a doctor near where they lived in Warren'sville, Ohio, which is really near where Kirtland is. And his name was Ezra Graves. And so when their last son was born, they named him Ezra Graves Williams. But Ezra was so what? His father was so his hero that he begged him to change his name to Frederick Granger Williams. And he he said, son, I owe Dr. Graves so much. I can't change your name, but I'll tell you what I'll do. We'll change Graves to Granger. That's almost that's close, and you'll be Ezra Granger Williams. And so that's who he became was Ezra Granger Williams. And he was his dad's shadow for the rest of his life. He loved to be with his dad more than any other

4 missionaries come to Ohio and travel together

Sherrie Dunford 19:00

thing. So in 1830, four missionaries came to Ohio. You probably know this. They were Oliver Cowdry, Parley P. Pratt, Ziba Peterson, and Peter Whitmer. You know, just sort of famous names in church history, right? Names that everyone knows. And they taught the gospel. They especially wanted to meet Sidney Rigdon because he had a congregation of people. And most of them joined the church. I don't know how many people they converted at that time. It was already October when they got to Kirtland. And uh Frederick's wife, Rebecca, went to hear these preachers, and she came home absolutely on air, saying, Oh, Fred, you've got to come hear this. This is the neatest thing ever. I can't believe what they're telling me. He was very skeptical, skeptical. Rebecca read the Book of Mormon and instantly believed it, had a testimony grow in her, and their two girls, Lucy and Levina, likewise. Uh Swain, the other boy, was physically handicapped. We don't know exactly what it was, but I chose to represent him as a dance kid, full of love of Christ. And so Swain represents that in my book. And so uh Rebecca and the two girls were baptized really soon, but Frederick was still equivocating, he just couldn't quite make up his mind. But finally, one day he got the answer to his prayer and he joined the church. As they were leaving the river where they were all baptized. Can you imagine being baptized in November in a river in Ohio? But that's what they did. And uh Oliver Cowdery said, Frederick, I need to talk to you. And so Frederick, still wrapped in a blanket, talked to Oliver, and Oliver called him on the mission with them. So what many people don't know is that those four missionaries became five, and Frederick went with them all the way to Missouri, to Kansas City, which was the end of any kind of civilization. And after that, it was Indian territory. And they actually went with the idea of preaching to the Indians. But now it's November and it's cold and then colder and then snowy and then snowier. And as they left Kirtland, they left wagon tracks in the snow. And the further they got, the harder the journey was. They ended up selling the wagon and the two horses and walking the rest of the way with snow up to Their knees and on their backs, Book of Mormons, and a little bit of frozen cornbread and raw pork, if you can imagine that's what they ate. But it was so frozen, really, that all they could eat sometimes was the crust off the bread. And Parley, bless his heart, Parley Pratt kept a wonderful journal, or maybe we wouldn't really know the details. Fred certainly didn't leave any us any info, but Parley Pratt did. And they, I don't know. Every time I think of them walking 300 miles, they walked, they got, you know, a ways into the trek, and then they walked for at least 300, maybe more miles, with the houses far and few in between, not really a good road, maybe a bit of a trail, not where knowing where they would stay that night or what they would eat, but they just had faith in the Lord. And Frederick, being young in the church, he was older than the rest of them, almost double their age. He was in his 40s, everybody else were in their early 20s. So he was the old man of the group, and yet he was the least schooled in the gospel. But can you imagine spending all that time with Oliver Cowdry and Pardley Pete Pratt? They said, Don't worry, Frederick, we'll teach you on the way. And that's what they did. And so every day he learned the gospel from these men who knew Joseph. And of course, Oliver had had many of the same miraculous experiences that Joseph had had. And he later said, I didn't suffer. I was on fire with learning what I was from these wonderful

They make it to Kansas to teach the Indians

Sherrie Dunford 23:50

men of God. And they eventually made it to independence into Kansas City, and they started teaching the Indians, but there was a um a government man over the Indians, and he said, No, you can't do that. Because they were out of the U.S. territory. And for some reason, I don't know why he had the say, but he said, No, you can't go over there and teach the Indians. So they came back into Kansas and then to independence. And there were uh there was a tribe there, the Kaw, K-A-W Indians were there. And I know there were other names of Indians, that's the one I remember the most. Uh and sometimes they were called the Kansas, K-A-N-S-A, which became Kansas, and that's how the state and the city was named. So he taught those Indians with these other missionaries, and some of them had to get a job from time to time to support them. But but Frederick, by the standards of most people in Kirtland, was quite wealthy. He was a doctor, he had a lot of land. He had 210 acres right in the heart of Kirtland, Ohio. And so he he was able to fund a good part of that mission himself and was happy to

Frederick meets Joseph Smith

Sherrie Dunford 25:10

do it. That summer, now they've been there several months, and that summer Joseph came. This was the first time he had met Joseph Smith. He came to dedicate the temple site in Independence, Missouri. And that's when Frederick met him, and he stood, he was one of eight people standing with Joseph as that property was dedicated. He and Joseph hit it off right away, and they became dearest of friends. And in September they went home, and they all all went home sort of together. And of course, his family was pretty happy to see him because Frederick had left his wife and four children, one of whom was handicapped. And not knowing how they were going to be cared for, but the neighbors said, Don't worry, we'll take care of her. Frederick had a brother who lived neck nearby. His name was William Wheeler, which was the father's name as well. And so Uncle Wheeler came to help out when he could, too. Ezra missed his dad, I'll tell you that. And so when he came home finally in September, after being gone for 10 months, they were all very happy to see him. And he told them of all of the wonderful experiences that he'd had while he was away.

Frederick is called to be a counselor to Joseph

Sherrie Dunford 26:30

So that's how it all started out. And then he was called to be a counselor to Joseph Smith. He actually acted as his counselor for a year before he was called. The first person to be called that counselor was a man named Jesse Gows. And you can read that in the heading to the section of the DNC that calls Frederick and Sidney to be Joseph's counselors. Whatever happened to Jesse Gows, I'll tell you, nobody knows. He just more or less disappeared.

Darla Brandley 27:04

Okay.

Sherrie Dunford 27:05

And so uh I've heard people say there was a reason that he was called, uh, but he never really served. And Frederick was handy, and so he took those duties over and was later officially called as counselor to Joseph. And one of his in and before he was became a counselor, he Joseph called him to be his scribe. And so he wrote everything. He wrote uh the revelations as they came to Joseph, as they fell from his lips. He helped with the translation of the New Testament, which they had already been into a bit, and then the Old Testament, which he wrote most of the retranslation of the Old Testament as Joseph did that. He wrote in the letterbook, he would write down the letters that Joseph received, copy them into that letter book, and then copy Joseph's response and help him write his letters. And that's what he did even after he was called to be in the first presidency. In the meantime, he was still a doctor. He still had a practice to take care of and patients to treat. Plus, he had a farm. And so he was trying to do all of these things and do it to the best of his ability. And when one day he came home sad and said to Rebecca, I can't do it. I'm trying so hard to do everything I'm supposed to do, but something's wrong. And the next day, when he went to work, I'll say, you know, his work was going to the what the Whitney store at the time where they had the school of the prophets. And Joseph started dictating a revelation, and he was scribing to him. And all of a sudden, the words are, and my servant Frederick G. Williams, I'm displeased with you. You have not taught your children truth and light. And Frederick goes, I have not taught my children truth and light. I have not taught my truth. And Joseph could see that his mind was no longer on what he was saying, even though he kept writing. And he said, Frederick, what's wrong? And he said, I have not taught my children truth and light. And Frederick, or Joseph goes, I thought you'd be sad about this. And he said, No, it answered my question. It answered my question, and he was happy to learn what was wrong. And things changed at the Williams household after that. Because they all, well, I won't say that. They didn't all come west because only Ezra was left. But Ezra brought his mother and came west to Ogden, Utah.

Scott Brandley 29:49

See, that's a cool insight because you don't, you don't, you wouldn't know that if you just read that in the doctor.

Sherrie Dunford 29:55

Oh, Frederick, you bad guy, because the Lord had to castigate you, and that's really not what happened at all. He was looking for an answer. And then and then the Lord goes on and said, Joseph, the same with you. Uh Sidney, same with you. And they all go, I knew something was wrong. And because of that question, the church started putting a greater emphasis on the importance of family and how important family is to the Lord and in his whole scheme of things. And that all came about because of a question. What am I doing wrong?

They build a temple in Kirtland

Sherrie Dunford 30:30

Wow. I just think it's so cool. So now they're called to build a temple in Kirtland. And they did. They built a temple in Kirtland. And I'm sure you've probably been there. A lot of members of the church have been there, and especially this last year or so, since we have owned the temple again. And my heart broke, to tell you the truth, my heart broke for the members of the community of Christ when they had to give up that temple because they loved it. But the truth is we had to give it up first, and we cried. Our people cried. He had already deeded it over to Joseph. But the church does not claim that it once belonged to Frederick because Frederick bought it from two men, one of whom was a guy named Peter French. The other was Isaac Moore. Isaac wanted just to get out of Kirtland. He didn't like these Mormons. He wanted out of there and he sold his land to Joseph and all, or to Frederick, and all was well. But Peter was kind of a shifty guy, and he never recorded his half of the deed. And therefore, even though Frederick thought it was his and he'd paid for it and he was paying taxes on the land, it didn't show that he owned it. But it was his land. And the temple is built there as well as so many houses for members of the church, including Joseph, including Joseph Sr., including so many others that you can read that it was built on that land. And in the DNC, the Lord tells Joseph, I want you to have Frederick keep his land for the next five years, which he did. And in five years' time, everything had collapsed in Kirtland and they were moving to Missouri. So the Lord knew what he was doing when he brought Frederick to Kirtland to buy that land and trade it from Isaac Moore and Peter French. Yeah. The Kirtland Temple cost about $40,000 of then money, of 1836 money. That was an expensive, expensive building. A lot of the money was donated, but a lot of it was had to be raised. And I've got you've got to realize that the people coming into Kirtland by the scores were mostly poor people. And they'd just come across the ocean a lot of them, many of them from England, as you probably know, and Denmark and other European countries, and saving their every scrap of money they could save so that they could come across the ocean, so that they could walk for miles and miles, or another conveyance if they were lucky, like a train if they were a little later on, and come to Kirtland, expecting to be taken care of. They expected that everything, this was the Church of Jesus Christ, that everything was going to be perfect. And of course it wasn't. And they were poor and they had no place to stay. And so they did the best they could to house these per people and help them find jobs and help them find a way to survive. Some of them went on to Missouri by then, and same, but it was the same story there. And of course, then they were run out of Jackson County early on. But they came up

They open a bank to raise money

Sherrie Dunford 34:15

with this idea of raising money, and that was to open a bank. And the bank was called the Kirtland Safety Society and Anti-Banking Company. They had gone to uh the church the state capital, which was, oh boy. Cincinnati, no. Anyway, one of the cities in Ohio, whatever it was, and tried to get a charter and they would not give it to them. They said, You're crazy to open a bank at this time because banks are closing all over the country. You are going to fail. But they said, No, no, the Lord's on our side. We'll open this, we'll call it anti-banking. So it's not really a bank. Well, they opened it, and you might know that it did fail. And a lot of people had invested a lot of money into that bank and then lost it all. So I want to read you a little bit, if I can find it really fast, of what happened to the Kirtland Safety Society. When things

Sherrie reads an excerpt from Frederick and Joseph’s writing

Sherrie Dunford 35:25

got really bad, Frederick was serving as secretary for the society for six months, beginning in early January. I'm reading from Fred's book, the comprehensive book on President Williams. The prophet records his disassociation with the bank and comments on the general downturn of the banking system in the United States and England due in large measure to speculation and wickedness. And he had told them, don't you speculate, you're going to lose all your money. But these people started to think they were rich. They could borrow money from the Kirtland Safety Society and they had money. They borrowed as much enough, some of them, to open a store or build a house, or as little as to buy a pair of pants. They just used it to death. And then the enemies to the church went around and bought up all of the uh Kirtland Safety Society certificates. You've probably seen them, the checks that they could draw on the bank for the face value. They went around and bought up all of those that they could buy up. Then they took them to the bank and said, We want our money. And they're going, we can't give you that much. There's not enough in here. You can't pull it out all at once. And they said, Yeah, we can give it to us. So, long story short, and I tell you, I don't truly understand everything about what happened, but I do understand this. It was a big miss. It was a huge miss. And they failed. And but before it failed, Joseph left. And um, this is what Joseph wrote. Sometime previous to this, I resigned my office in the Kirtland Safety Society, disposed of my interest therein, went and withdrew from the institution, being fully aware after so long an experience that no institution of the kind established upon just and righteous principles for a blessing not only to the church, but the whole nation would be suffered to continue its operation in such an age of darkness, speculation, and wickedness. Almost all the banks throughout the country, one after the other, have suspended specie payment, and gold and silver have risen in value in direct ratio with the depreciation of paper currency. And so there you go. Joseph left, and guess who took his place? Frederick G. Williams. He said, He said to his son, if I could take the pressure off of Joseph, I would. You have no idea what kind of pressure is on that man right now. We have this expensive temple to build, we have all these people coming into Kirtland that need a house. We have people wanting to borrow money, and our enemies outside of the church are destroying us. He said, if I could take that, I would. And he ended up taking it. And he ended up being in that position when the bank failed. And people would come to him demanding their money, and all he could say is there is no money. He was accused of taking money for himself. And other, another man, I believe it was W. W. Phelps, was accused of stealing, outright stealing money from the banking society. But Frederick said, Hey, I lost everything too. And side note, later, many years later, they had an auditor go in and audit all of the paperwork from the Kirtland Safety Society, and it was proven that there was no wrongdoing. So even the guy who they thought was the bad guy and he'd taken all the money did not. None of them did. It was everything was done the way it should be, but everybody lost. So now they really didn't know what to do. By that time, the pressure in Kirtland was so bad that they all left to go to Missouri. Jackson County was now out of bounds. They

They go to Davies’ County

Sherrie Dunford 39:30

couldn't go there. So they went to Davies County, which is up north and uh in the other county. And uh it was sparsely populated, and the Missouri said, Hey, yeah, come on up here. We're fine with you building here. And so they did, and and they went and built a city called Far West. Some of you may have been there. Right now it's nothing but miles and miles in every direction of a field.

Darla Brandley 39:57

Yeah, there's nothing there anymore.

Sherrie Dunford 39:59

That's right. But at the time it was a thriving city, that and Adam on Diamen, which they called Diamond, which is where Adam will gather in the last days, we know that. And it was a fairly big city. So those two places were fairly big, and the rest were little outlying areas. But as the saints became more and more prosperous and raised beautiful crops and had lots of kids and all of these things, the Missourians were pretty upset. Not only that, but the saints were against slavery, and Missouri was trying to become a slave state. And so the hatred started. And it wasn't only from without the church this time, it was also from within. And people started leaving. Half of the quorum of the 12 left. Oliver Cowdry left. And I can't even imagine how Joseph must have felt when Oliver left. It was a sad day for him. But Oliver just said, You can't tell me how to live my life. He never, ever reneged on his testimony, and neither did either of the other two of the three witnesses, or the eight, none of them ever took back their testimony of the Book of Mormon. But they did leave the church. And most of them never came back. Oliver did, but it wasn't long after that that he died. And he only had one child, a daughter, who also died young. And Martin Harris left. He did come back, and he is buried in northern Utah, but he was quite a bit older when he came back.

Darla Brandley 41:45

Yeah.

Sherrie Dunford 41:46

And so here they are. And the weird thing that happened then is that Frederick was dismissed from the first presidency. He didn't know he was, but he had been sent to work on the Sidney Gilbert store. Algernon Sidney Gilbert was killed during the Zion's Camp March. He died, he died from cholera. He died from cholera in at that time. And Joseph told him, Frederick, please go see what you can do with that account because we need that money desperately. So for the years that the church was in Far West, a lot of that time Frederick spent on getting that money back for them. Meanwhile, his family was there. His oldest daughter was married. She lost three babies in Far West and they're buried there. He lost a son in Far West and he is buried there. And the rest of the it came to in 1838 and 1839 that they were so mistreated by the Missourians that they were dying. As I

War + Joseph goes to Liberty Jail

Sherrie Dunford 43:10

read the histories of the church about this time, I could hardly believe that we only know the tip of the iceberg of what happened there. It was a war. It was an all-out war. And we the saints were mistreated. They were murdered, the women were raped, they were starved, their belongings were stolen, their crops were taken, they were all shoved in to Far West or Diamen. And finally, by the beginning of 1839, even the people of Diamen had to go to Far West. And Colonel Hinkle, who was in charge of the Mormon militia, became a traitor. And he's the one who gave Joseph Smith over to the Missouri Balitz. Mob. They are the ones who put him in the Richmond jail, him and those that were with him. Frederick was not with him because he was working on this uh Sidney Gilbert estate. It took him months to work on it. And he had to go back and forth here and there and to Richmond, to independence, to all over the place to see if he could figure out how he was going to get this money back. And you got to remember, he was first and foremost a doctor. And so he was preaching and doctoring all of this time. He loved it when he could take care of people who were sick because then he can preach the gospel to them. And that was his greatest delight, is to do that. So eventually Joseph ended up in Liberty jail and Frederick rushed to Far West when he found out Joseph was incarcerated. And he took his family to Quincy, where the church ended up there for several years. And um and then he had to go back. He didn't quite, he wasn't quite quite through getting that money. It was so class close. So he went back and uh he finally got it. He finally did it. And he got all that money back for the church, and he went to Liberty Jail to try to tell Joseph that it happened. And of course, the jailers would not let him talk to them on that day. Well, you know what? I'm not gonna tell you that part because I want you to read it, but it's quite dramatic what happened next. And let's just suffice it to say at this point that uh Frederick eventually came back to Quincy where Joseph had come. And I'm not gonna you might know how he got out of Liberty Jail, but a lot of people won't, and I'm not gonna tell you because it's cool. But uh they lived in Quincy and bless those people's heart, there were more saints that they took care of in Quincy coming out of Missouri than there were Quincians. But they took them in or they found them a place to stay, they gave them shelter, they gave them clothing, and they fed them, and most importantly, they found them jobs. And a lot of people did not move to Nauvoo when uh Joseph was able to buy Nauvoo in part because of the money that Frederick was able to get out of the Sidney Gilbert store. He had money in hand, and he was able to buy that land in part because of that. And so I love Quincy.

Frederick dies in Quincy

Sherrie Dunford 46:50

If you haven't been there, you need to go. It is beautiful. Now, parts of the town are getting older, and and the old parts are the most beautiful, beautiful, but the more um business, industrial end of things aren't so beautiful anymore. But Quincy is a fabulous place, and I love it there. And I honor those people for what they did for our ancestors, taking them and literally saving their lives.

Darla Brandley 47:20

Yeah.

Sherrie Dunford 47:21

So Frederick died in Quincy, and uh Ezra, who was now the only surviving child a child, took and he was 18 or 19 years old, took his mother and went to St. Louis because of course he now wanted to be a doctor as well. And so they went to St. Louis. He there were some good doctors down there to whom he apprenticed himself, and he they left for uh the West from St. Louis, as many people did. But they were able, he and his mother were able to go back up to Nau and have Frederick sealed to Rebecca and get their endowments before they came west. So it's neat to be one of the few people who can say, I have an ancestor, I have ancestors who received their endowments in the Nau temple because literally it only operated for a few months. They left in February of 1846, and it wasn't fully dedicated until May of 1846. I don't know whether you knew that. It was they dedicated a little of the temple at a time so they could use it, and but they really did the last endowment in February of 1846 before it was even fully dedicated. Then they dedicated it and came west and left it there. Yeah, oh, but it was so sad. Heartbreaking story. Heartbreaking story. So that's mostly the story that I want to tell you. And I've just skimmed over the top of it. There's still a really good reason to read the book because there's a lot of stuff still in there that I would like you to hear. But there are some

About Henrietta Elizabeth Crombie Williams

Sherrie Dunford 49:10

things now that I would like to tell you. Number one is about Henrietta Elizabeth Crombie Williams. She is the gal that Ezra married. So she is now the daughter-in-law of Frederick, who she never knew, but she did know her mother-in-law. Henrietta was from Boston. She was an heiress to a fortune. Her father was an only child and inherited a lot, a lot, a lot of money. Her mother was an only child and inherited a lot of money. So between the two of them, they had a fortune. But Henrietta had two brothers, and so the mom and Henrietta joined the church. It wasn't too long after that. And one of the missionaries who who uh converted them was Ezra T. Benson. I think he was the father of Ezra Taf Benson. I'm not sure. He's either the father or grandfather, I'm not sure. But in any case, uh, he was also the one who brought them across the plains. And when he said, We're going to Nauvoo, the Lord wants us to go there, be in doubt, and then go on to the West. And they went, wait, what? Excuse me? Yeah, we're going west. You need to come. And they're going, We don't we don't even know what to do. And Henrietta's father had died. The boys were in military school. They had to call them home and convince them that this was the thing to go do was to go west. Henrietta was so pampered that she never even picked up her own clothing off the floor. She never washed a dish. She never made her own bed. She was pampered. And she had her picture taken, and you can see she has a little velvet thing around her hairs all done up. She's in this beautiful dress. You know, a lot of the pictures of people of that time, they're stern and they're like, you know, kind of weird looking, but no, this is beautiful. And um so she came west, she met Ezra in St. Louis, they left from there. She did not get to go to Nauvoo and get her endowments. It was too late. So they left for winter quarters. And with Ezra being a doctor, he he would stayed in winter quarters for about uh around a year. And Henrietta had her first baby there in a mud hut. This was again a little come down, right? A little come down. She had her first baby in a mud hut, and in her journal, she wrote at least three times, but that didn't matter. We were going to Zion, and that's all that mattered.

Darla Brandley 51:59

Yeah.

Sherrie Dunford 51:59

So she came across the plains with her little girl Lucy and her husband and her mother-in-law. Ezra was not with them. The mother-in-law drove her own wagon, Rebecca, who was President William's wife. She drove her own wagon. An adopted child of one of Ezra's sisters who had passed away, a little boy named James Goddard, came with them and he drove Henrietta's wagon. And Henrietta took care of her baby. Ezra, on the other hand, had his horse, and he was the only doctor for five wagon companies. So he rode from one company to another to take care of the sick, to deliver babies, to fix the broken bones, to just whatever comfort.

Darla Brandley 52:46

You can imagine how many medical emergencies there would have been in five caravans heading across the West, right?

Sherrie Dunford 52:52

Like crazy. And so that is the story. I want, I I think we're probably I'm getting close to the end of my story, but there are a couple of things that I want you to know.

Darla Brandley 53:06

Okay.

Sherrie Dunford 53:09

Um, this is

About B.H. Roberts

Sherrie Dunford 53:10

B. H. Roberts, and he, as you might know, was a church historian.

Darla Brandley 53:15

Okay.

Sherrie Dunford 53:16

And he said, I was careful, he said, to hand up and obtain from you a photo photograph of Frederick G. Williams once in the presidency of the church, and as I had hoped, rescued him from the oblivion into which his memory had fallen. Elder Roberts concludes with the hope that justice may secured for the veteran in the work of the Lord, adding, For I am one who believes that the little weaknesses and misfortunes that baffle men ought not to stand in the way of those who were undoubtedly chosen of the Lord to assist in bringing forth this work. And Dr. Williams was one who contributed to that cause. And his legal legal representative should be diligent in seeing that there is secured to him every blessing which of right can be claimed in his behalf. And so that's what B. H. Roberts had to say about this man that more or less disappeared into oblivion and was blamed for things that he really had no control over. Um let's see if I can read you one more thing. Okay, I'm gonna read you one, actually two. I'm gonna end with one other thing, but I'd like to read a little bit of this first. And this is the

Sherrie reads an excerpt from “The Life of Frederick G. Williams”

Sherrie Dunford 54:30

big book by Frederick uh G. Williams III. And by the way, you can get this book. You the hard copy is no longer available, but you can get it as an e-book on uh Kindle and also on Deseret Book. You can get it. It's called The Life of Dr. Frederick G. Williams, Counselor to the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Frederick G. Williams. Yeah, so um, and it is great, but it is it is very factual. Um so Joseph is writing about Sidney and Frederick, his two counselors, and this is pretty cool. He says, Brother Sidney is a man whom I love, but he is not capable of that pure and steadfast love for those who are his benefactors that should characterize a president of the Church of Christ. I don't know how much you know about him, but oh, Sidney was bombastic. He could talk for two and a half hours and did talk for two and a half hours at the Kirtland Temple dedication. Frederick, if he talked 15 minutes, that was a lot for him. He did not like to be up front. He was good to sit and scribe or do anything that he was asked to do, sort of behind the scenes, but he did not like to be up front, and that's why you don't hear anything about what he wrote. This with some other little things, such as selfishness and independence of mind, which too often manifested, destroy the confidence of those who would lay down their lives for him. These are his thoughts. But notwithstanding these things, he is a very great and good man, a man of great power of words, and can gain the friendship of his hearers very quickly. He is a man whom God will uphold if he will continue faithful to his calling. Oh, grant that he may, for the Lord's sake. Is that awesome? And then he wrote this. This is Joseph still, and he wrote this about Frederick. Um Brother Frederick G. Williams is one of those men in whom I place the greatest confidence and trust, for I have found him ever full of love and brotherly kindness. He is not a man of many words, but is ever winning because of his constant mind. He shall ever have place in my heart and is entitled to my confidence. He is perfectly honest and upright and seeks with all his heart to magnify his presidency in the Church of Christ, but fails in many instances in consequence of a want of confidence in himself. God grant that he may overcome all evil. Blessed be Brother Frederick, for he shall never want a friend, and his generation after him shall flourish. The Lord hath appointed him an inheritance upon the land of Zion. Yea, and his head shall blossom, and he shall be as an olive branch that is bowed down with fruit. Even so. Amen. Isn't that to say that about Frederick and Joe Frederick and Sidney were about as opposite as two people could be, and I think Joseph needed both of them. He needed both of their input because they were opposite. And uh it just when it well, it worked, it worked really well. I'll put it like that. Okay, so one last thing I would like to read, and this is from my cousin Fred, who wrote the big fat book, and he gave me permission to put this in the back of my book. I have to show you the cover to this, it's so cool.

Darla Brandley 58:07

Oh, yes.

Sherrie Dunford 58:10

My granddaughter who designed the cover of this book. Isn't that just the coolest thing?

Scott Brandley 58:16

Keep the question going, right?

Sherrie Dunford 58:18

That's right. And it is endorsed by Richard Paul Evans, right here.

Darla Brandley 58:24

Nice.

Sherrie Dunford 58:24

This is my name, and it's easy to remember. The hardest part about it is Sherry. It's spelled weird, S-A-T-R-R-I-E. Far like the ice cream, Dunford like the donuts. Now you'll never forget it, right? I've got dessert covered, so we're good. Okay. So this now is from my historian, researcher, and expert on the life of Frederick G. Williams, my my cousin, Dr. Frederick G. Williams III. Prior to joining the church, Frederick Granger Williams had become a successful doctor with an established practice and bright future. He had held an elected civil office for four years before moving to Kirtland, owned land, was relatively wealthy, and highly respected. He entered the church in his mature years, forsaking all these material things, vigorously engaging in the church's activities, whatever they were. Although his testimony and love of the gospel and for Joseph Smith caused him to be persecuted and driven from his home, and in time cost him all that he owned and broke his health, it was only within the church that he rose to his greatest heights. He became a justice of the peace, the editor of a newspaper, the president of a bank, a trustee of a school, and a member of the presidency of the church. His was the privilege of being equal in holding the keys of the kingdom with Joseph and Sidney. He participated in many glorious spiritual experiences, culminating with the dedication of the Kirtland Temple, where his was the great privilege of seeing the Savior Himself. He lost his position of leadership and eventually even his membership in the church. But whatever his personal weakness, he had the strength of character to maintain his loyalty to the prophet and return humbly to the church when it would have been easy to have disagreed disintegrated into bitterness. I am grateful that he did.

Scott and Darla reflect on Sherrie’s story

Darla Brandley 1:00:25

Wow. That's amazing. I love that. What an awesome story. What a treasure to have that as your, you know, genealogy, right? Like people who did it for you, what a legacy to to look up to.

Sherrie Dunford 1:00:42

And as I told you at the start, I always knew this story had to be told.

Darla Brandley 1:00:47

Yeah.

Sherrie Dunford 1:00:48

But I didn't know it would be me who would be telling it. But I am very grateful for the privilege. I can't even tell you what a privilege it's been to tell this story.

Darla Brandley 1:00:58

Yeah.

Scott Brandley 1:00:59

Well, and we feel privileged that we got to hear it. So thank you for coming on and sharing that with us. Oh privilege. As we kind of wrap things up here, do you have any any final thoughts you'd like to share with with those that

Where to find Sherrie’s work

Scott Brandley 1:01:15

are listening?

Sherrie Dunford 1:01:17

Well, if I can put in a plug for myself, is that okay if I do that? Sure, yeah. If you'd like to go to my website, you can get the book there. It's also available on Amazon and at Barnes and Noble. Okay. But you know, I always I I always prefer that you get it from B. And I'm going to tell you what my website is, but I have to look and make sure I don't get it wrong. Oh, it's this sherryfardunford.com. So Sherry S-H-E-R-I-E, far like the ice cream, dunford like the donuts.com. And that's my website, and you can get it there. But also on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, as I said, it's also available as the ebook on Kindle. And hopefully it will soon be in Deseret Book.

Scott Brandley 1:02:04

Awesome.

Sherrie Dunford 1:02:05

That's wonderful.

Scott Brandley 1:02:07

What do you what do you hope as

Sherrie’s hopes for the book

Scott Brandley 1:02:10

far as um when people read your book and and hear the story? What do you hope that they they learn from it that they maybe didn't know?

Sherrie Dunford 1:02:19

I hope my whole reason for writing this book was was uh Frederick's reaction when he was excommunicated. His his reaction, of course, was heartbreak. He was heartbroken, he wasn't there. He was lumped in with a bunch of other men. But the only thing he could say was, When can I come back? It would have been so easy for him to say, you know what, I'm out of here. Let's go, family. I can't do this anymore. I've given everything I've got, I have nothing left to give. But instead of that, he just said, When can I come back?

Scott Brandley 1:02:56

Wow.

Darla Brandley 1:02:57

Amazing, the humbleness. That's the lesson. That's the lesson. You know, and the humbleness. I love that.

Sherrie Dunford 1:03:05

Yes.

Scott Brandley 1:03:07

Well, that's that is a good lesson for all of us.

Sherrie Dunford 1:03:10

It is. It is. And I hope people will read the book because as I said, it I it's I just gave you the the tops, the I the a little bit of it. There's much more to the story. I think it's fascinating. Yeah.

Scott Brandley 1:03:28

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing the the highlights, right? And um, yeah, I'm sure there's so much depth that's more than you can share in an hour long podcast, right?

Sherrie Dunford 1:03:43

Truly, there is. So we do this.

Scott Brandley 1:03:47

Yeah, yeah. It's it's been a treat. And we really really appreciate your willingness to come on and and give some of that insight that that Mesmember of the Church do you just don't hear.

Sherrie Dunford 1:03:59

It's

Outro

Sherrie Dunford 1:04:00

so true, isn't it? So true.

Scott Brandley 1:04:04

So thanks for for coming on sharing that. Um, we will put your links in the in the footnotes. So anyone that anyone listening, if you if you want to go uh get the book, Whatever Happened to Frederick G, um, we'll we'll put the links down there. Go check it out. Go support Sherry in her effort with all of her hard work. And um thanks again for for coming on, Sherry. Thanks everyone for tuning in to another episode of Latterday Lights. If you have a story that you'd like to share, like Sherry, go to latterdaylights.com or email us at latterdaylights at gmail.com. And don't forget to do your five-second missionary work. Go hit that share button. Let's share this story and this light out to the rest of the world so that as many people as possible can hear it.

Sherrie Dunford 1:04:55

Absolutely. Thank you.

Scott Brandley 1:04:58

Yeah. So thanks again, Sherry. Thanks again to everyone for tuning in, and we'll see you next week with another episode of Latter Day Lights. Till then, take care. Bye bye.