472. How to Recruit and Retain Insurance CSRs and Account Managers

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: HERE

What's in this episode:
Finding and keeping strong CSRs and account managers has become one of the biggest challenges agency owners face today. In this episode, Michael and Courtney Weaver sit down with Tony Cañas of Top Hat Recruiting to break down why the account management talent pool has shrunk, what agencies get wrong about the role, and how outdated processes are driving good people away.
Tony shares what experienced CSRs and account managers should be earning right now, why remote and hybrid flexibility has become the number one factor in retention, and how agencies can turn a clerical job into a real career path. He also breaks down the exact characteristics that separate top performing account managers from the rest, and what agency teams will likely look like a year from now.

[00:00] Introducing Tony Cañas of Top Hat Recruiting
[01:00] Why agencies can't find good people right now
[03:00] Making the CSR and account manager role attractive
[05:00] The pay gap between producers and account managers
[07:00] Remote work and the return to office debate
[10:00] Turning the role into a real career path
[12:00] Outsourcing with VAs and building solid SOPs
[13:00] Licensed vs. non licensed hiring decisions
[14:00] Why compensation squeezes skipped service roles
[16:00] The real reasons experienced talent is leaving
[17:00] Why employer brand and culture matter so much
[19:00] What CSRs and account managers should be paid
[20:00] The real day to day of a $90K account manager
[23:00] Traits of the best account managers Tony sees
[24:00] What everyone is talking about at conferences
[26:00] The truth about AI ROI in insurance agencies
[27:00] Tony's prediction for insurance a year from now
[29:00] What agency teams will look like next year

Connect with Tony Cañas:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tonycanas
Podcast: Profiles In Risk

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

When you're recruiting for the account executives, the CSRs, the account managers, what are the things that you're like, okay, they need to do this very, very well. Are they pivoting? Are they selling? Are they customer relations? Like let's get granular of like what their day-to-day responsibilities are recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Today we brought on Tony Kanas with Top Hat Recruiting, and we're talking about just that specifically around the CSR and account manager role. What are they looking for? What characteristics do they portray? How do you position the position at hand as just not a role, but a career for the future? And what does this role look like in the future? Speaking of, with that being said, let's start the show. Hey, welcome to the insurance buzz. We are your host, Michael and Courtney Weaver. And today we have a very special guest on the show, Tony Kanas. Tony, welcome to the insurance buzz. Thank you for having me. How's it going? It's good, man. We uh look, I'm personally super excited, and I don't want to speak for both of us, but I believe we're both very excited to have you on. So we were on your podcast about a year ago. We had a ton of fun on it, got to know you a little bit, and you are in the recruiting space. You run top hat recruiting. Uh, you specialize in helping agency owners and brokerages bring on account managers and CSRs, which is completely opposite from most recruiting firms out there. Most recruiting firms are all about sales producers. Um, and so I'm very excited to have you on the buzz today to talk about what you're seeing in the marketplace right now, um, the the success you're having with CSRs and account managers, maybe even hopefully we'll dive into like a little bit around what that position looks like in the future. But um, I'd love to just kind of start it off with what are you seeing right now in the recruiting space? Because if there is one constant message I hear from agency owners across the board, is we just can't find good people. We just can't find good people, Michael. Where are all the good people at? So, Tony, what would you tell the agency owners are like, man, I just don't know where all the good people are, bro?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Uh the retirements we've been talking about for a long time, and that I wrote a book about back in 2017 have definitely hit. Uh and and on on the account management side, especially, um that that role, the account management and CSR role for a long time was was staffed by by a lot of high school educated women who came and would stay forever. Uh, and and that demographic uh has disappeared. Uh right, women have been out-educated themselves compared to men for a distance I got out of college in in 2006. Um and we need to figure out how to make the role attractive, how to how to how to make the role a real career, basically. Because the the old demographic that that was going for it is is just not there anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Okay, this is fascinating to me because I've never actually I don't think we've ever jammed on this about like kind of that out out-educating that role. So when you talk about making that CSR or that account manager more attractive, tell me a little bit more about what that would look like.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

So so a lot of the industrials are very clerical, uh, and they end up wasting a lot of time on bad processes, bad technology, uh kind of kind of thing, manually quoting on a bunch of the different carrier uh websites, etc. Uh, and now there's so much technology that that that basically my advice is is work on your processes, bring somebody like Kelly Don and Hupiero at Agency uh Performance Partners or something, you know, or someone like that to make sure that your processes are as efficient and as up to date as possible. Outsource all the stuff that that doesn't require a license. And and then the stuff that does require a license and where there's a true value add, then that's where that's where you really need a CSR or account manager. And and by doing that, you also become a more attract attractive employer, number number one. And number two, with your process and your technologies leveling up, you're more likely to be able to let people be remote or hybrid, which is the number one thing that the talent is is is looking for. And that that's fine, selling is hard, but how do we level up the the the account managers? Well, uh Kelly, who I mentioned a little bit ago, I don't know, eight years ago on the podcast or six, seven years ago on the podcast, talk talked about the way you do that is you get rid of the bad processes, you level up the technologies so that so that they so that your crowd managers can spend their time on high value activities, which allows you to to pay them better. You might need less people, but but um they'll be doing a more interesting job that has a true career, not just a job.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Okay, you said a few things here on a breakdown. So again, just to reiterate, what is the number one thing people are looking for in a in an opportunity? Can you just repeat that for me, please? Remote by far.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Okay, I just I just want to make sure I heard that correctly. No, hybrid might be okay, depending on your local area. Uh but if if you think high hybrid is is uh one day you know it's Friday from home, uh that then you're doing it wrong. And and again, your local area plays a lot into it. For example, here here in Atlanta in Atlanta, Georgia, where where I live, where the traffic is horrific, it is a huge advantage to be as remote friendly as possible.

unknown 6:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, and in our area, we're in Greenwood, Missouri. So it's also a huge benefit to be remote because of talent, like trying to find out.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Not enough people with the right experience nearby.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

That's right. That's right. Okay. So I just wanted to reiterate that because for some reason there's still a question mark out there around should I consider remote.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Well, okay, no, let's have let's have this, let's have this debate though, because this is going on, and there's a lot of companies that are having like the return to work mandates, and they're starting to bring that back. So, Tony, when you're seeing this, are you getting better talent with remote and hybrid work? Is that by far?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

But but by far. Uh yes, the the the RTO fight is is real and and and it's real in our industry. Uh and and before before COVID, I I made a video where I said if you're not remote friendly, you either have bad technology or bad management. And and well, post-COVID, the technology piece was solved because you didn't survive COVID otherwise, right? So you have the right technology. So only one option left. Um I it it's funny to me because in the in the I I'm originally from Costa Rica, I've been here for 23 years. Uh, in the States, we we talk about everything as a market, except for white-collar talent. Right? And and in insurance is obsessed with with with uh experienced people that have done this exact job before, uh, and that is a market. A market where where the talent is retiring, uh and we're we're not doing a great job in keeping the the younger generation and helping them grow, right? So there's a limited amount of talent with the right experience out there, and the the role 95% of roles in insurance and in the agency, like 99%. Okay, if if you've got a lot of people who come in to pay their bill in person, right, or if you depend a lot on walking traffic, you probably do need a person or two in the office. But the great majority of the services and and even the selling isn't not happening that way. Yep. So if it if the great majority of of all the interactions with the clients and prospects are is not happening in person, why are you forcing them to come in person?

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yep. I hey, I I was just asking the question, just to reiterate a point that I've said a few times on the podcast. So uh, but you're an expert, you see it every day. Um and and actually let me let me add something.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Uh I the R RTO, my opinion is is it it'll go industry by industry. So if if if you're Apple, if you're Google, if you're Morgan Stanley, yeah, you you can force people back into into the office because you have a line of kids going to school specifically to work for you. That's right. Nobody in insurance has that. Nobody on the carrier side, nobody on the agency side. Uh so full so it'll go industry by industry in insurance. There's no way that that the return to office will work in the long term.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

I would agree with that because if yeah, you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. I mean, you can for a certain amount of time until they just find another job. And so, but that leads me into and let are you okay with transitioning off this topic? Okay, so you did bring up a good point that I really want to spend some time talking about because I'm I'm curious as to what you see, what your opinion is on this, how to make a role a career. So I I would be very, very um interested in what you see some of the best agents do that you recruit for around, because a lot of times it is just a role, it is just a job, and that's how they treat this, versus how can you make this position a career? A career that somebody looks forward to. Um, I know one thing we constantly hear in our recruiting efforts is what does the growth uh look like in this position? And so, Tony, I'd love for you to hit on this in that CSR account management position when we think about the future of insurance, because it's changing rapidly, specifically this position, is what do you view this position as of now and in the future? And how should an agency or agency owner position this as a career versus just a role or job in the workplace? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Uh, if if you're a large enough agency, can can we create a supervisor role? Can we create a manager role? Uh on the commercial line side, how can we help them level up to a true account executive where the producer sold it, but but then they handle the A2C? Uh can we get them involved in training, mentoring, that that that kind of kind of thing? And and again, as I was saying at the very beginning, get getting rid of the non-valued activities, outsource all of that or automate all of that, leaving only the more value the more value-add activities.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

I I love that you bring that up because that was something actually when we were going back, we read Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell, and then we were looking at like our agency, and we went back to like the very beginning, which would have been 2013-2014. The first person that we when we're looking at that, that we should have hired was a VA, was somebody to do like basic admin tasks. And I don't think in that kind of world and the insurance space, that wasn't something that was really talked about. It was like hire your sales team, hire your service team. But it's like, wait a minute, who's doing like basic support? So I love that you're saying outsource everything that doesn't require a license. Would you recommend an agent do that like right off the bat? Like this is the first person you okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

And and and uh in order for a VA to to work well, you need good processes, right? So so have SOPs for everything, well well documented, uh, and then that allows you to to to start outsourcing that. And there's plenty of VA companies that that that uh that that that specializing insurance.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. And they'll create their own SOPs. That was something that I'm not really good at. And so when we hired our VAs, we had some, but they went in and they're like, this is actually how we would create this whole thing. Um, so there's a lot of great services that that really can take it to the next level. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about license, non-license. When you're recruiting, are we focused on licensed people or are we focused on non-licensed people? And do you have a preference?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Um, so we we only recruit uh with insurance experience.

unknown 12:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Um so so basically everybody for the agency side is licensed. On the carrier side, we do underwriters, claims, people, leadership, stuff like that doesn't require a license. But every everything, everything we work requires insurance experience.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

All right. So I want to get into this because I asked that question because there has been a shift in the captive and independent space. Um, and the captive carriers, there's a lot of compensation changes. There's a lot of people that are questioning, I don't even know if I want to be an insurance anymore. You deal with a ton of in independent insurance agents. I know you do with captives as well, but you kind of had the pulse on that. So tell me a little bit, have you seen any shifting in the insurance space when the carriers started shifting the compensation?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

No question that everybody's getting squeezed. Um it it does not seem to to have uh rolled down to to to the service roles. Uh we we have not seen a decrease in salary for the service roles because there's just not enough people with the experience. Um so so so basically uh agents are are investing heavily in being more efficient than they ever were before. And and there's so much technology out there to to make that happen. So, all right.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Since you are recruiting individuals that have been in these space, they have the license, they have the tenure, they have their experts at what they do. I'd be very curious why are they leaving their current position and looking for a new one?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Generally, they're seeking growth. So, so they're there's they're see they're seeking an agency that that that offers them better work-life balance or that offers them a better role, or is that paying them better? Uh, meaning the number one predictor of of somebody being underpaid compared to the market is how long they've been in a particular agency. Or or this same thing on the carrier side. So if they if they've been there for five, ten years, chances are that they're underpaid compared to what the market's paying today. Yep. Uh and a big one is is more opportunity to be remote.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

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SPEAKER_01 15:34

I I I think that your employ your your employer brand is is huge, right? Every agency uh has the whole like we we have a great culture thing. Well, what what exactly does that mean? In most cases, it it it means we we support the the local football team kind of thing. Well, how is that different from every other agency ever, right? Uh so so a a real differentiator in in how you guys do business, how you guys treat your people, uh helps a ton in selling us an employer.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I I just got really fired up. I leaned back in my chair because you're like, it's your brand. I've been dying on that hill for a long time. Um okay, and I love this because you actually do this so well. I follow you on LinkedIn. It's so fun to follow you because you're doing magic, you're at all these conferences, you're also recruiting for insurance agents. You're fun to watch, but you have built this whole brand. You're very easily identifiable. Like if there is an image or anything, I know it's Tony. Like I know the hat, I know the glasses, you have your brand down. But I actually got an email about this last week about culture. And I said that culture is not something that you say, cultural is something that you show. Like you show your culture, you exemplify your culture. It's not a mission statement or it's not like a quote on the wall. But I would be curious when you're seeing like the personal brands, talk a little bit more because you said it's not just getting involved in the community with the football team. What are you seeing brands that are like, okay, this is who people want to work for? What are they doing differently?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I'll give you an example. Uh, I I was a sales manager uh with uh American Modern Open Northern California. Uh what one of my agencies, uh Barber Insurance, uh lots of mobile home business. Uh and and so that's that that is a very in-person they walk in to pay their bill uh type of environment. Um they have this this big uh fish tank, the saltwater fish tank. They have an office dog, they'll they allow uh their employees to bring their dog into into the into the office. It's a it's a very, very fun environment, very different from any other insurance agency. They don't have trouble recruiting the right type of people that that that that that that that are that are a good fit for for for their agency.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah. They're having fun. It's a place that people will work.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Exactly. And uh you've got to really treat your employees well.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Agreed. Okay, so you said a few things um earlier on why are they leaving. So growth opportunities, better work-life balance, which you then went on to reiterate, probably more remote work, um, your brand slash culture, and your pay. I'd be curious what you're seeing the average CSR slash amount can't account manager across the board should be getting paid or is being paid right now in your experience.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

And experience personal lines, you should be at least 60. If you can get closer to 70, that's definitely gonna help. Experienced commercial lines 60 to 90. Uh, and we've seen plenty of senior account managers or account executives that that are breaking six figures.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

In fact, like super, super specialized, we we we play we place one uh account executive for a super specialized, like they must have there must have been like 30 people in the country that have the right experience at like 170. Uh but but uh but yeah, for personal lines, if it it if if your experienced people are not close to are not at about 60, 65, you're at risk of of losing them to a to a bigger shop that that lets them work remote. Uh and same thing for for your commercial lines people if that if they're not at somewhere between 80 and 90, you're you're at risk of uh them getting poached by somebody who's letting them work remote.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

All right, I want to dive into that too, because I'm glad you brought up pay. Um you brought you said uh the high value add things. So let's kind of like separate this because in my mind that's typically a sales role. So when you're recruiting for the accounting executives, the CSRs, the account managers, what are the things that you're like, okay, they need to do this very, very well. Are they pivoting? Are they selling? Are they customer relations? Like, let's get granular of like what their day-to-day responsibilities are at $90,000.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

They are definitely the technical expert on on the policy. They're the ones that that really understand it in depth. Uh, and they they work very closely either with with the underwriters or with the marketing team to really understand which which markets. Uh and and they really own the relationship. Uh the the producer might be taking the the owner of the or the CFO out for golf once a year or baseball game once a year, but the the the account manager or account executive is the one is the one that that really owns the relationship with with everybody that actually runs the account. Right? Everybody that actually has to touch the insurance more often than once a year.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Okay. Um and then with personal lines, same kind of deal. They're they're actually like working with the underwriters, they're working with claims, they're making sure that the policy's covered, they're suggesting anything that they're missing within their policy, going through, doing the reviews, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

And on both commercial and personal lines, lots of focus on all on on cross-selling, on or on filling in whatever lines we we don't already write.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

So the days of just answering the phone and taking a payment are dead.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yes, so that that's so easy to outsource, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Okay. Okay. All right. So one of the things that we hear um when we're interviewing a lot is that people do not want repetitive tasks. They do not want to do the same thing over and over and over again. And I think the challenge with insurance is it is pretty much this is kind of like a groundhog day. There's a a lot of different things. Who have you seen or what have you seen that have uh Really kind of made insurance sexy, I guess? Is anyone out there like making it an attractive opportunity for our Gen Z and our Gen Alphas that are coming up?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Well, if you get your processes right, if you get if you get rid of all uh if you get the best tool to to quote, if you get if you get the best tool to to to to manage the the accounts, then really the uh they're dealing with with the weirder things, right? That their their day becomes less the same.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Okay, so I want to ask what characteristics do the best like account managers that you've either placed or maybe that you've interviewed, um, what characteristics do these people have that help them excel in this position?

SPEAKER_01 23:35

They're they're very detail-oriented. That that that's a big one, uh, especially because they they they have to to become experts in the technical aspects of of each policy. Um they they they have a curiosity for how insurance works, right? They they want to learn or or they've taken the time to to dig into how the policy works and pursued education like CISR, CIC, that that kind of thing. And and then they're just excellent with people, right? They're they're excellent with dealing with people, and and especially if there's a problem, they they just have a calming way to themselves.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah, so could we say like with that, so probably empathy, probably communication. What else with people skills? I know those are two important ones. Anything else I'm missing between those two?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, good listening skills.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Warm listening, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

All right, I want to jump because you've been out and about, you've been in the world. You've been very people lately that I have seen on the interwebs. Um, what's everyone talking about at conventions right now?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

It seems that that AI is all anybody talks about anywhere in any insurance conference. Um but but it it ha it has evolved. Uh two years ago, it it was it was all generative AI. Um, and and now uh a lot more uh what I what I'm hearing, especially uh yeah, what what I'm hearing a lot is orchestration. So so basically how how do we get all the different technologies to to play together, make sure that the things that the different systems are talking to each other properly, and there's there's several companies doing that. Uh that that's kind of the the new buzzword is is orchestration. Right? So five years ago it was it was it was uh or six years ago it was just before COVID, it it was uh blockchain, then the last two to three uh gen AI, uh and now orchestration is kind of the new thing that everybody's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Okay, okay. Anything else aside from AI? Because I I as AI people we understand that this is this is what we're hearing. Anything else that we need to be on the lookout for?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

On my own podcast, it it seems that that's all anybody talks about. AI. Yes. It's it's a buzzword right now. It is absolutely and and it's it's so hard because the really insured ticks are our startups and and they they um they they they they have to claim to be AI companies in order to be able to get investment. Um and no, I would what one other thing is there's there there is an i a big thing is that there's a big um um push towards showing actual ROI, not just cool technology, but but show how it's actually been implemented and it's produced actual results. Uh there's there's some interesting research that that uh uh 22% of of of carriers last year uh had um deployed, not just not just tested, but deployed, and something like 70-75% had had uh had uh proofs of concept uh in in test. Uh so now it's it's all about deploying proof that it's actually making a difference.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Oh yeah, the use cases. We we get this one a lot. Like, show me the ROI on this. Let me actually see how this works.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

What I saw actually with um and our product's a little bit different because it's more it's it's a hands-on AI. Like you use it every single day. Obviously, you're gonna be able to see a pretty instant ROI. But like there was a research, I I don't remember the statistics, but it was in the insurance journal, and a certain large percentage of carriers that deployed AI last year actually saw an uptick in cost that they were expecting with a decrease in output that they were expecting. So it actually cost them more, and it didn't do everything that the founders promised the carrier it was gonna do, and they let go of their staff, and now they're having to bring humans back on because the AI can't do what they thought it was going to do. So it ended up costing them more, it did less. Now they have to go back out, hire people, train people to come in and do what they thought the AI was going to be able to do. So, yeah, we're at a really interesting time in the uh in the old insurance uh space for sure when it comes to AI.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Okay, Tony, so you are a magician, so I would love for you to make a prediction. You have uh I can say that, right? You you have you have all the tricks I watch you. Come on now.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

You're reading you're counting cards. I can't take you to Vegas. I know how this goes. All right, so I would love your prediction because you do. You have conversations all the time. You're out and about, you have an incredible podcast. Um, let's hear it. What do you think? Uh what do you think the insurance industry is going to look like in a year from now?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

In a year from now. We we'll we'll keep seeing MA. So we'll keep seeing a bunch of acquisition, especially on the on the agency space. Uh small agencies and even medium-sized agencies get getting acquired. Uh and on the insure tech side, we will see uh many players go out of business, just run out run out of runway. Uh and the lucky ones getting acquired by the by the usual suspects, you know, apply it, etc. And I I will do it up to hopefully distracts you a little.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

You better be watching right now if you're if you're not watching, Tony is gonna yeah, he whipped out his cards. So if you're not on Spotify, Apple or US. Spotify a little bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

We'll spring in the cards.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Okay, so uh in resort, like let's talk about people. So we we're gonna run out, and I get that, some insure techs are they're just not gonna make it, they just don't have the funding. Um, they don't have the RD for it. Like it's totally see that. And then obviously the mergers and acquisitions, we're seeing that happen right now where the big boys are going out and they're literally just you know making their books of business. And that makes sense because there are agents who they kind of reach their shelf life as well of like this isn't the thing I want to do anymore. When it comes to teams, what do teams look like a year from now? What does your agency office look like? Is everyone remote? Hybrid, what's the staff look like?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

More more more remote. Not quite everyone remote yet, it'll be a while. Uh, but as as more agents feel the pain. A remote role, we might be able to fill it in a week and a half, two weeks. A an in-person role might take us months. Uh, and you you end up paying more, you end up getting lesser talent, the more that that hurts, eventually you end up making peace with it. So, yeah, more and more remote, not fully remote, but more and more remote. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Tony, I always love you coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for changing. Oh, I we love going on yours. We love when you come on ours. It's so fun. If you're listening to us right now, make sure you check out Tony's podcast profiles in risk. Um, how else can somebody follow along with what you're doing, Tony?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Biggest thing is add me on LinkedIn. I'm very easy to find. Tony Canis, C-A-N-A-S. I'm the one with the whole bunch of designations after my name. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Find the glasses in the top hat. You will know immediately. You'll be like, oh, this is why branding is so important. You will always remember that. It's like a red Coca-Cola can. It's like, yes, you have nailed it. Tony, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah, Tony. This was awesome, man. Thank you so much. And for those of you who tuned in today, thank you so much for your time and attention because without a doubt, they are your most important assets, and we appreciate you spending your time with us. So, other than that, go out and make it great, Tony. Thank you again.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Thank you.