PTSD & Complex PTSD: The Trauma We Carry

Welcome to Tell Me How You Really Feel with Ashley and Steph, where we dive headfirst into life’s messiest, funniest, and most meaningful moments.

In this episode, we kick things off with some lighthearted chaos—think Bumble date mishaps, sleepwalking disasters, and why Fribbles after sex might just be the ultimate post-game snack. But don’t get too comfortable, because we’re also tackling a topic that deserves real attention: PTSD and Complex PTSD.

Ashley and Steph get personal, sharing their own experiences with PTSD and the ways it has shaped their lives. We break down the differences between PTSD and Complex PTSD, their symptoms, and how trauma can show up in unexpected ways. Plus, we offer practical tips and resources for anyone navigating their own healing journey or supporting someone who is.

Join us for an insightful, raw, and surprisingly relatable conversation on trauma, healing, and everything in between. Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review for more real-life conversations that matter.

 Tell us how you really feel on Instagram: @tellmehowyoureallyfeelpodcast

Transcript

PTSD and Complex PTSD

Sal, what's going on with you? How are you? Well, I just wanna say this is our first time recording remotely, so let's hope all goes well. Can't get worse, . I mean, it could, it could, it could, it could definitely. Do you realize what sticker is on that microphone arm thing That's right by your face? Yep, yep, yep.

The second I saw the camera turn on and I saw iHeart anal fisting, I was like, she's gonna fucking point that out away. . All right. So guys, I had to borrow someone's studio because of all of the mishaps that I've had earlier. So I am not recording from my home. I'm in someone else's basement and I'm using their microphone that has iHeart anal fisting on it.

So I don't heart anal fisting, for the record. , are you sure? Pretty positive. So what's going on with you? Welcome to 2023. I know. Happy New Year. It's been a while. It has been a while. When's the last time we recorded? I think like July. No. Yeah. Didn't we do one in like, August? Not Aug, like October? No.

Hmm. No, we, I think, I think it came out in like October probably because of all the editing. We never had to, we never finished, like we had two kind of like close together, but I'm pretty sure it was still hot out. Because yeah, it was like July. But I will say I'm so glad we recorded that episode on the Psycho what were they called?

This ? The Psychosocial development. Psycho Psychosocial Development. Because that was on my L C S W exam and I thought back to our episode, all of the stuff that we had talked about on the on the episode, and I was like, I know the answer. Uhuh, I swear, God, that helped you pass. It helped me pass. I was thinking back to that and this is that topic specifically and I think I said it on that episode that I don't know it and it's always the one that I have the hardest time with and that episode actually helped me really learn a lot about it.

well look at you. Yeah, look at me. Go. Yeah. Congrats to Ashley for getting her L C S W. Yay. Cheers. . You don't sound happy, . It's just more things to pay for each year, you know, more things to more license licensers to upgrade. And once I get more money, then I'll feel better about it. But. Yeah, I was a little surprised at how much the ccs is gonna be ridiculous.

Little bit. So what's going on with you? How have you been since July? I mean, we've obviously seen each other, but maybe you guys are that interested in our lives. Is it bad that like I have to really think about the last six months of my life. I just wanna say that I got new windows and doors in my house and it's like the happiest I have been in a very long time.

that's adulting, , adulting at its finest. Like I'm done with like the bougie bags and shoes and everything else, like brand new windows and doors. Like I've just been sitting at home staring at them. . That's probably my favorite thing to hear. . Yeah, like I didn't even wanna put curtains up the first few days cause I just wanted to look at them.

Understood. Does it feel less drafty? It's very less drafty. I felt heat in my upstairs for the first time since I've moved in last year. Okay. My windows are so bad. Last year when it snowed, I had snow on the inside of my windowsill. Like it came like in from the bottom. And I was like, eh, maybe this needs to be a priority.

It probably looked very decorative. The snow? Yeah. . No bitch. It was snow in my house. That was then like semi melting ? No. Oh, good times. There's been so much happening. I mean, we got, well, I was obliterated the other night with you, so I don't That's a, that's a start. I don't even wanna know what I did. I don't know what happened because I was fine when we got there and I would say like maybe two hours later I did the emergency phone call to get picked up and go home , because I was like, if I don't leave right now, I don't know what's gonna happen.

I'm so glad you did . I ended up at my mother's and apparently I fell asleep on the toilet , and she said my phone was ringing so much that she just shut it off. She just shut my phone off. . Who was calling you? I don't know. My phone was off

so I don't know what happened. But yeah. Yeah, I've, I've definitely like blacked out a little bit. I remember getting into your aunt's car and I was like, hi, aunt Nancy , and then you passed out and then you, you fell over and you passed out. , that's why I don't remember. . You pulled the typical you, because then when you pulled up to your house,

And I was like, all right, Ash, get out. You started that. Me, me, me, me, me. Where like, you're not making sense, but you're saying something. So I had to get out of the front seat and pull you out of the back seat. , Nancy is cracking up and I'm at the point where I'm pissed off at you and I'm like trying to pull you out.

And then you took the longest way possible across your front yard to get to your front door. And Nancy's like, wait for you get in. And I'm like, she's home. Go

And my front yard's so small. . It's very small. Oh, I just know. I was like, I don't remember getting home. And I just woke up naked. I was like, how did I get home? I was like, I think Steph drove me home, but I also don't feel like she drove me home. , like, I don't think you were behind the wheel. I didn't even have my car.

I had to figure out how I was getting home in the morning. Oh my God. Good times. That. I mean, falling asleep on the toilet. I've done that before, unfortunately. But , no. I mean, like I wasn't going to the bathroom like I was like laying on the toilet. Oh, well, like squatting on the floor, like holding the toilet like a pillow.

Hugging the porcelain express. The porcelain teddy bear. Yeah. So what else is happening?

I kind of feel like I'm in an autopilot the last few months. Heard that? I got through the holidays with like the skin of my teeth emotionally. I got violently ill on the last day of 2023. I missed the entire New Year's Eve weekend and I'm just going to say that that was my body rejecting all of 2020 twos energy and it was purging from the inside. 2022 was fucking bullshit.

Ugh. That was a terrible year. We have been non-stop sick between the two of us. Like you had covid one month and then like, we're like, all right, we're gonna record again. And then I had covid and the effects from that like just did not go away. I'm still super nasally. I don't know if you can hear it too much on this, but we've just been nonstop sick back then.

I feel like that's your new norm. Yeah, I'm kind of just accepted fate that I'm never gonna feel not sick again. Like it's just what it is. But we are hoping to not be, not experience things like that in 2023 and we can record a lot more. Plus we. Eventually got this remote setup going which helps us a lot.

So we're hoping to give you guys the more content. We got plenty of ideas. So I did a Instagram poll and 78% would like more personal stories. I've got plenty for you. 89% would like more laughter. . And then this one was close, 60% want a live q and a and 40% want 30 minute unedited content episodes. Oh my God.

Could you imagine the stuff that comes out? No. I would lose my job probably if like we did unedited content But good poll. I'm glad you took that. If you guys don't follow it already, make sure you follow. Tell me how you really feel on Instagram. Because Stephanie is much better than me at thinking of much better polls and posts them all pretty frequently and we can get more of your feedback.

 So what was the, what's the first one you said they want more personal stories? Oh, well we got plenty. For today we're actually, our topic is gonna be PTs, D and c, PTs D. So we'll use that as like a perfect leadway if, are you ready to get into it or, I'm ready. Okay. So that'll start as like, kind of like a perfect leadway, like right back into it.

 So I actually recently found out not found out. I kind of had a suspicion that I was diagnosed with ptsd, T S D, but I told my therapist, I refused to actually hear what my diagnosis is, , and I didn't want her to tell me because I didn't wanna obsess on it being somebody that is in the field and has worked with everything.

Like I didn't wanna overanalyze it. So once I felt ready after a year , she said something. She was like, , you know, something along the lines of like, well, that's the, the trauma. And I was like, am do I have ptsd? Is that my diagnosis? And she was like, yeah, that's your diagnosis. So I've actually had kind of a struggle in accepting it and understanding it myself as someone in the field.

So I just think back to like how other people who don't have this extensive educational and field training must feel when they get a diagnosis like that. Because in my mind, and, and I know this is false, but it's just what my brain automatically jumps to that. Like there's stigma and there's feelings, and like, I should be stronger and I should have known this and I should have done this, and I should have done that.

And I have tens of thousands of dollars dedicated into this field in student loan debt. And I still couldn't comprehend and understand things and things started to just kind of click along the way and I was like, oh. , that's why I have these nightmares. Like, it's not so much a nightmare in my mind I thought it was gonna be the reliving of the event type nightmare, but it's related to the event type nightmare, if that makes sense.

Whether it's a, a nightmare of a person or like just the feelings and the events. Like once I started to like not pigeonhole it so much, I started to notice like, oh, that's why I don't sleep at night . That's why I'm always awake. I'm avoiding a lot of things or why I avoid being like home alone in certain times of the day.

So it was it really like opened up a lot of insight to myself, but like, we'll start with that as like a personal story is that I'm still have time struggling with like the diagnosis of having like the PTSD and understanding it in myself. But why do you struggle with being diagnosed? I think because in my mind I'm like, there's, I've seen so much worse.

Like, who am I to have this reaction? And it's like like I've seen people go through so much worse that I struggle to accept it in myself. Like, I shouldn't have PTSD from this. I shouldn't have it. Like I, I didn't have it that bad. Like someone else has it worse and I struggle with it. And like, oh, you.

you shouldn't have PTSD s over something like that. But, but like, do you struggle with it because like it's quote unquote confirm that quote unquote, something's wrong with you. I'm not agreeing with that statement, but a lot of people take stigma to diagnosis. So like, do you feel like it's like, damn, something really is wrong with me cuz she diagnosed me.

I think it was more like having to accept the trauma of it because I've avoided it for so long. So like if we think back to even some of the earlier episodes and we were talking about how you and I would have these discussions and I was always looking for like a mental, like, not that PTSD isn't a mental health diagnosis, but it, it helped me avoid the trauma to be like, maybe I have this, maybe I have this, maybe I have bipolar disorder, , maybe I have all these other things.

You were like, no, you just have trauma. And I remember you specifically saying it. We were out and you were like, or you're just traumatized. But I think just accepting it because if I accept that I'm traumatized, I have to accept the events. Does that make sense? But I think it does. But like I feel like not one single person on this earth has a perfect life.

And at some point we are all traumatized. And I believe the difference of getting a diagnosis and not getting a diagnosis is how you cope with it. And in my opinion, nine times out of 10, we're not gonna cope well. And in my opinion, four out of 10 are gonna go to therapy to try to fix it. And the other six are gonna live this lifestyle that doesn't make sense.

And wonder why everything's going wrong is because they're not addressing the effects of the trauma that have happened. , I think. I think that hits the nail on the head like it in terms of the word coping. Like I think, I don't, didn't want to admit that my brain did not cope well like that. My brain didn't know what to do despite having all the tools and everything and all the knowledge that my brain didn't cope well and at times won't cope well and I have no control over it.

It's also like I have to hand over control at some point too. Like, you know, it was always like an excuse for like why I couldn't sleep. It was an excuse for like why I was having nightmares. Like, oh, you know, it's this. It's gotta be that. It's gotta be this, and now I have to like recognize how much this does affect me subconsciously and outta my control.

Well, I think like we've had drunken conversations that when you're like on your emotional rant and like I've said to you, like stop looking for something to blame. Like stop looking for symptoms, stop looking for a reason. Like this shit has happened to you and you're gonna do one or two things of it.

You're either going to become a piece of shit, or you're going to like learn and like try to grow from it. And I don't mean grow from it in this like Hallmark movie, like blossoming effect, but like analyze yourself. Like what did it do to me? Like how did it change me? Why do I react the way that I react to like certain things.

Like what are my triggers? Like I just feel like sometimes like people are always like, well, I went through this and that's why I'm like this. Okay, well you're a terrible, terrible person. When you act like that, like get it together. Is that towards me specifically? on some shit? Yes. I'm not gonna lie on some things.

Yes. Oh, thank you. But I'm the same way. Like there are things that. , you know, like you're the more sensitive one and I'm more of the one that's just like, bottle it up and throw it in the trash and don't talk about it again and keep moving. Like neither one is healthy. Right? And then, because then there's times where six months later something will happen and then everything just comes up at once.

Yeah. Yeah. And it like, I think, I think again, like accepting like what certain things, like what certain reactions are and like being able to be like, okay, like this all plays a part of it together. Like being able to make those connections. It's definitely brought me a little bit more awareness to it and I don't feel like I've avoided sleep as much lately.

as I give you the f frowned eyebrows. It's been, yeah, you do a little better. Apparently a little bit better. But every four days I talk to you, you're like, I haven't slept in 72 hours. Have I gone, I haven't gone all night in a while. Well, that's good. Like I'll at least get like three to four hours sometimes.

Now I'm trying to think if there's been a time that I just was like, fuck this. I'm not falling asleep. I'm just gonna push it through. Why do you avoid sleeping? The nightmares probably and like the stress of it. And yeah, I mean, when I, so there was a period that I was highly stressed and I had to get put on medication for my night terrors.

I would wake up in the middle of the night completely paralyzed, but I was wide awake. And I would see ship and I would see the same thing every time out my bedroom window. But like, I couldn't move, I couldn't talk, I couldn't do anything. Like I could not, I like was trying to wake myself up and I'm already awake, but my body wouldn't move.

And I'm like seeing this figure like out my bedroom window and I'm just panicking on the inside. And every time I'm like, today's gonna be the day that I die. And it's just that, that internal true fear of like, what is going on? Like why can I not control my body? Like I would be like, legs move, arm move.

Like nothing would move. And then there was one night I woke up and at the time my partner woke up and I was like, it's there, like he's there, like it's right in the window. Like it's right there. Like, and they're like, no, like there's nothing there. He's like, there is nothing there. Like gets up, turn the lights on, opens the blinds.

Like, and like I had like a full on breakdown because I really felt nuts. Like I felt crazy. And then that's when I went and like talked to somebody to get put on meds because clearly I needed something to get through this. And it was It was, I don't wanna use the word time sensitive, but like, it only lasted when I was going through that significant period of stress.

Like since I've, you know, changed my environment and like done like different things. Like I, it hasn't happened in a really long time. Yeah. But I'm still sleeping. That's, that's no joke. It's not. And, and I, I my, it's funny cuz me and my siblings all sleepwalk when we're under stress . So my sister, my brother I really didn't start, they started sleepwalking when they were a lot younger, but I didn't really start until like college.

So college years I would sleep block, sleep, ugh, sleepwalk at least like once a year. But it really kicked up when I was like away at school because of the stress of being away at school and like a new environment and my psyche and body adjusting to a new environment. But this last year I've probably slept walk the most of my life and like, I like , I slept walk.

naked down the hallway at my brother's wedding, which was wonderful. Thankfully. Someone caught me that I am comfortable with that caught me and was able to escort me back into the room. But they said that I was just like doing circles in the hallway, like just walking in a circle and like picking stuff up off the ground that didn't exist.

completely naked. So like just showing everyone my asshole that I possibly could if they were awake, thank God they were not. And I, for whatever reason, like also tended take showers. So the most recent thing is I was already asleep in bed. I woke up and I walked and I took a shower and the person that I spent the night at their house, they were like, I, all I hear was the shower turned on.

And I was like, just so you know, that's where the shampoo is. . I was like, and then I woke up as they were talking to me and I was like I'm sorry. I think I was sleepwalking by the way. I sleepwalk, , . I slept walk as a kid. I mean, I live alone now, so I don't think I do it, but I did it a lot as a kid. I do it if I'm sleeping out more than at my house.

I haven't slept. Walk at, slept, walked, walked at my house. Really? Now that I'm back there, , but. That's another story for, but I I think when I know my environment's not the same and my ultimate panic is like being late for work or being late for class and school. Like in my mind I'm like, I have to get up and take a shower.

So I wake up when I'm sleepwalking and I take showers, which is so fucking weird and crazy that I end up like waking up in a shower. Maybe we need to do an episode about this. Yeah. I'm still like gaining insight to it. It's decreased a little, but it's still, you know, if I'm outside of my home scape, like I still run the risk of sleepwalking.

So You're welcome. So then let's go into what PTSD is, Absolut. So we touched on this a little bit during the trauma episode but P T S D is short for post-traumatic stress disorder. It's often something that's associated with sexual abuse and combat because a diagnosis the diagnosis of P T S D really came after Vietnam.

Prior to that it was called like a bunch of different names, including Shellshock, which you might remember. And you're not wrong if you had that thought process because the initial creation of PTSD was for combat. And then in the eighties they started you know, researchers started noticing it in like sexual abuse victims, domestic abuse victims, and expanding on that research.

Yeah, I think it's important to note that like p. P T S D lit, like literally came about because of the common symptoms and experiences that war veterans were having. And then like as more research and more therapy and you know, bigger things came to light, they realized that it's not just from war and that there are similar life experiences that can cause the same outcome, which we now know as ptsd.

Right. And then more recently there's been what's called C P T S D, which we're gonna touch on a little bit today as well. It's not a DSM five diagnosis yet, but it is recognized by the last revision of the International Classification of Diseases, which is the I C D. So when we are giving a diagnosis, there's actually called an I C D code.

 So it's like on its way, essentially to being a full-blown diagnosis. It's recognized by the United States veterans Affairs health Direct Australian and British National Health Services. So it's almost there, but you know, we're still working on it. So to go back to p t PTs d we're starting to recognize that it's triggered by any traumatic event, not just combat vets and sexual domestic abuse.

It's again, it like we said in the trauma episode, it's that person's interpretation of the events. Steph, I don't know if you wanna pick it up from there. . Yeah. So they categorize PTSD into four different groups. And depending on how you are as a person will kind of not determine, but like you may have the same life experience, but because of who you are, you may have a different symptom of ptsd.

 So the four are intrusive memories, avoidance, negative changes in thinking and mood and then changes in physical and emotional reactions. So you can have one of these, you can have a mix of them. It's not really like all inclusive or one or the other, but sometimes if you have a very dominant symptom, your therapist or your psychiatrist may diagnose you with one of these clusters.

That's what they're called clusters. So intrusive memories are. Reoccurrent Unwanting, unwanted, distressing memories of the tra traumatic event. Let me just start that over. So, intrusive memories are recurrent, unwanted, distressing memories of the tra traumatic event. I, why can I never say traumatic or traumatized?

Traumatic. Traumatizing, traumatic . Can we please put it on a t-shirt? . So this is kind of like the most like known thing of PTSD is the flashbacks, like when you're reliving the traumatic event, you're having that flashback. Sometimes they can be in dreams, nightmares, daydreams, triggered by something, and it causes this severe emotional distress or physical reaction to something that reminds you of the traumatic.

So I, I tend to, initially I thought of that as like, you know, a physical flashback, which I have un I have unfortunately seen someone I know that was at a a mass shooting. I actually just texted my cousin to make sure it was okay to share this, but she was at the the country concert in Las Vegas that was and is still considered the, the biggest mass shooting in America.

And she was in what they called like the kill zone. So she saw many people get shot and die and friends, and she remembers like specific victims. But when we were at the funeral for a family member and they did, that was a vet and they did the gun salute, I have, I have never seen it like that. Anything that active where.

She dropped to the ground and did like a duck and cover and eyes were bouncing back and forth. She doesn't remember any of it. And her eyes were bouncing back and forth and like she was not in that moment. She was in Vegas and she was reliving that. The second those gunshots went off and it was like, like dropped to the ground and this is just, this is our life that of course, like we were at the casket as this was happening.

Like we were putting our roses down at the casket when, so we're like just on display for everybody. I realized pretty quickly what was going on and like picked her up and at least this is my memory of it cuz it was so fast, like picked her up and got her out of there and she just booked it out of the cemetery and then called me like an hour later and was like, where is every.

and I was like, we're we're at the, the dinner after. Are you coming? And she was like, I just completely disassociated. I am at a gas station right now filling up my gas. And I started to come back and I was like, yeah, just get over here. . So it was, disassociation is a big survival symptom and personal opinion.

Like I get conflicted when they diagnose disassociation as like a mental health disorder because that shit is your body going in survival mode to protect you. Exactly. And I think it's, it was, I mean it was just so crazy to see like the way that her eyes were bouncing back and forth, her facial expressions, her body, like she went back the way she was even looking up in the sky like she was back in Vegas and at that shooting.

And just how, I mean, I, I, if I might be wrong, but I think she still even sleeps with the lights on, like still struggles with fireworks like. All of that. And I know it's, it's funny cuz we were talking about how it's your interpretation of the events, and I remember having these discussions with her and sh you know, her saying like, you know, I have friends that were there at the same time and they are not struggling the way that I'm struggling.

Like, what's wrong with me? And it really comes down to how our brain interprets those events. Like it, you know, like that horror movie that we watched and what we talked about in the trauma responses, how I was horrified by the scary movie and had nightmares that night and Stephanie slept, you know, completely sound , right?

So like, just understanding that it's not, it doesn't make you weaker. Because that's where my brain jumps to. And I talk myself out it, I think, I think society does see it as like, you're weak or you're not strong enough. Mm-hmm. or you can't handle it. And, you know, I'm very sympathetic to what your cousin went through and I followed that shooting cuz, you know, being a country fan and with the artist specifically.

 But I, I think it's also important to mention that like, it doesn't have to be that big of a scale for PTSD to happen. No. Like there, it doesn't, there are times like, I don't know, I guess I'm, I'm gonna say it, I haven't talked about this, but like, going through sexual abuse and like, if you're at the bar and like a guy touches your shoulder or like your back the wrong way, I immediately get like, chills up my spine and I'm turning around and I'm like, don't fucking touch me.

Mm-hmm. . And like, it was just somebody like trying to say, excuse me, to like squeeze through a crowded bar. Like it can be those very little like subtle things that like you get triggered and you immediately go back to that traumatic moment. Flashbacks are huge. Like I flashback to a lot of things. And I think you saying that like my lead into it is like, I had this idea that that's what a flashback was, and like it should look like what she experienced and what I saw her experience.

And it's not, it's not like it's not, and I noticed it more about myself, about the same situation. Like, and my response is like, where, where you get the chills up your side. Like my response is to go into that fawning where it's like you have to like, talk yourself out of it, you know, like you're gonna like talk your way through it.

 So I think like, you know, thank you for opening that door up because like, I don't, you know that's where my response goes to is like, I'm trying to. have a flashback, and I, and I dissociate in a different sense where I'm like, I'm gonna figure out a way to talk through it. , like, talk my way out of it.

You, you, you talk and you laugh a lot. Like I know when you're nervous versus like when you're actually laughing. Mm-hmm. . And like I know that sometimes you'll be talking about something very serious and like you try to laugh and it, it's just like, it's just something that our body does. Yeah. Like, it's not.

It's the worst. Especially because when I first start or here's, I, and I have the nervous laugh in situations like where I'm uncomfortable in general, but on top of like something where it's triggering a trauma, I really get the nervous laugh. And like example, I crashed into my ex-boyfriend's car in high school and I really didn't mean to, and they were, you know, both our parents had to show up to the scene and I started laughing uncomfortably and my mom understood it, but my dad was like, furious with me that I wasn't taking it seriously, that I wasn't.

And my mom had to be like, no, that's what she does. Like she laughs when she's uncomfortable. . Right, right. It's just those little ways to like try to get out of it. So yeah. So intrusive memories, you can relate that to flashbacks. It's probably the. Biggest known symptom of P T S D. The next one is avoidance.

So this is where you try to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic experience. So you avoid places, you avoid people, things that remind you of it. I'm probably the most guilty of this because I will just, if in my head, if I avoid something, I don't have to deal with it, right? Like, if I just stuff it down and just act like I don't have those emotions, I don't have to deal with it, right?

I mean, I, I avoided it essentially for like over 10 years and then when it was, you know, kind of triggered again and like where something had happened that it triggered me again. The it, it almost in a way like brought a lot of stuff to light. Like how much like this, I have been avoiding it and, you know, talking about it like I.

You know, typically have to be under the influence of a substance to talk about it . So and completely avoiding people, places, things colors. I remember the color of my clothing. And I avoided the color red for a long time. Not so much on a shirt or like pants, but I avoided like red bras, red underwear.

Like I very specifically avoided certain colors. Yellow, you'll never see me wear a yellow shirt. I don't wear skirts. Like I don't, Steph, you've never seen me in a skirt, right? Mm-hmm. , like, I don't, like I completely avoided. And I realized this looking back, I'm like, I avoided everything that I wore that night.

So I threw mine out and I think I gave mine away. Was doing that. No, I straight up threw mine in the trash. And then I also, it kind of like dawned on me that I believe I threw out a few outfits after significant funerals. , like I would buy an outfit specifically for that event knowing I was gonna throw it out because I wanted no memory of that.

Yeah. And like that's avoidance, like, you know, kind of thinking about it now, that's not necessarily healthy. No, it's not. But it's, but I didn't want that trigger of what happened on that day when I was wearing that. It's our automatic responses. I mean, I don't even like say the words and I don't say the person's names.

I even made up fake names for it. Like, just to purposely avoid all of it. And we might not realize like in the moment how much avoidance we've really put into it, or like we've downgraded it to ourselves like, well it wasn't really like that bad. Or we question ourselves like, well what, maybe it's not the way I interpreted it and like, I just don't wanna think about it right now.

The avoidance piece can be on like a much smaller, I don't even wanna say the word smaller level cause I feel like I'm downplaying like what you're going through. But like, it's, it's the little, I I'm just gonna say it, it's the little things that we do to protect ourselves and they seem little because it's throwing out a piece of clothing, it's avoiding going somewhere.

But they are actually like huge things that we do to try to protect ourself. So like, you avoid colors, I just throw away clothes, I throw away items. You know, you're just avoiding people, places, things. So like those emotions aren't triggered back up. Right. So, all right. Why don't you do negative changes?

That's one almost thing. I'm so neg probably cuz this is the most negative changes in thinking and mood. So symptoms of negative changes in thinking and mood can include negative thoughts about yourself and other people or the world. Hopelessness about the future. memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event.

 Difficulty maintaining close relationships, feeling detached from family and A lack of interest in activities. You once enjoyed difficulty experiencing positive emotions and feeling emotionally numb which are all things I kind of float in and out of on a daily basis. So the negative thoughts about yourself.

I'm, I, you know, that's something I very much struggle with and I have to work really hard to talk myself out of. And including like the hopelessness, like once that starts, that it's just a spiral into all the other things. But there's a lot of times that like, I do feel detached and I feel like, you know, I am, I am not worthy for family and friends and I will detach myself and like disappear for days at a time.

like, not physically, but like, I won't answer texts for a few days or I won't. Like, I just detach from it in a sense. I don't know how to explain it. I think that's probably the biggest part of like, doing this, this episode is like, I, I am kind of struggling and like putting things into words. Memory problems, not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event.

Like definitely blocking things out that again, have resurfaced in the last year. It's definitely resurfaced again, and I'm kind of going back to that place. But the lack of interest in activities you know, all of that like definitely comes back up. And this, this isn't like you're experiencing all at once.

Like it's a spectrum. Like you might wave in and out of these symptoms, you might be avoiding one minute and then back to negative changes in thinking and mood and like, you're kind of, it's fluid. It's not. , this is the first one. This is the second. Not like, it's not a step by step process of like, you're gonna feel this symptom, then this one, then this one.

 It, it moves fluidly. I think all of those at any given point in the day, exactly. Like, there's, like, in the morning I wake up and I'm like, oh, fuck this Monday. And then I'm like, this day is never gonna get over. And then I don't remember what I did yesterday and then like, I don't wanna talk to people.

And you know, like it's just, I feel like they can, they can be very well missed, especially if this is something that you do a lot and constantly. Not saying we all have P T S D, but like I could see how this is like overlooked. Yeah. Because they kind of are common things. I have memory problems a lot.

Like, I don't remember. a lot of the details around things, and there's a lot of, like my childhood that I don't remember in like high school, and I always question like, am I just an idiot or did I block it out? Right? And there's I think it's not so much like when we say like the little things, like it's more like it's just not that black and white.

Like there's that the, some of these things that we experience is that gray area in between. Like it doesn't have to be this like black and white event of like, this is what that looks like. And that's what our brains go to is like the most, I guess like I don't wanna call something simplistic, but the most like, comprehensive for our brains.

 So like we might think, okay, like someone that's detached from family and friends, like they're. , you know, they're isolated, they stay alone. And someone that's as social as I can be like, but that doesn't mean that I don't have those moments where I just completely don't answer text messages for like a day to two days, or I just don't feel like I relate.

Like I can socialize still with a group of people and I can socialize, but I still don't feel that attachment to everybody, if that makes sense. So looking at my text messages right now, I have 155 unread text messages. I mean, I at least click on it and then I'm like, I can't function to answer . Like, there are times that I will just sit and go through my whole text messaging thread because I don't know what I've answered and haven't answered or said like, or like I've read it when I like popped up on my phone, but I was like, oh, I'll text them later and then never do.

Mm-hmm. , I'm terrible with that. . And I think sometimes we, and I don't know if you feel the same way, but like, it's like, well, we do have good days, and I think people would mostly describe me as a social person, an outgoing person, like, you know, can walk into a room. But a lot of that is also like kind of my cover, if that makes sense.

Like I can, you know, kind of force myself to cover it with a lot of that. And at the same time, like that's another reason I start to doubt myself. Like, while I am social, I do do this, I do, you know, I have a, you know, a decent amount of friends. I do have, you know, a decent amount of family. Like it's, but then I start to like guilt myself and, and I'm not it's hard to like put it into words.

 It's like you start to think like, well, I'm not all the time in a negative change of thinking and mood. It's just some of the times it's just a bad day and you don't. Time to think back of like, let me analyze that bad day and what was it that possibly triggered it, right? Like, what part of it was bad, right?

I don't know if any of that makes sense, but we don't ever make sense. No. And you guys still keep listening and this is a, this is a serious one. Like I know you guys want some more laughs and it is hard to like laugh when someone talking about something that's dramatic. But, you know we'll get there.

Hopefully if you don't laugh, you'll cry. Or no? Yeah. Right. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. Yeah. That's a good thing, right? Yeah, maybe. All right. All right. So changes in physical and emotional reactions. So this is just easily being startled or frightened. You might be jumpy. You're kind of always on guard for danger.

You have self-destructive behavior, drinking too much, driving too fast, nail biting, skin picking, trouble sleeping, or constantly tired, trouble concentrating, or you're daydreaming, irritability, overwhelming guilt or shame within yourself. Tremors, kind of like shaky hands, always moving your feet, bouncing knees.

 And then you might have some physical symptoms from the tension in your body, like tmj, neck and back. I carry my stress in my shoulders and my neck, so like I know I need to do something for myself when there are days that like my shoulders, I feel like can't even hold my head up and I like really need to do something.

I'm literally every single one of those. Like, it sounds insane, but I walk into a room, I walk into a movie theater, I walk into anywhere and I'm looking for the exits at all times and like, what's my escape route? I've even done it in grocery stores and that's probably why I haven't act like I don't really go to grocery stores in person anymore.

Like cuz ever since c and deliveries systems like Instacart, like I, I do not go into stores anymore. But I also feel like we grew up in that generation where like we were doing like mass shooter drills. Mm-hmm. . Oh yeah. So like, we're trained to like constantly duck for safety and like find the exit. And I think also too, as trained therapists, we're always trained to keep you in between the client and the door to have no harmful objects on your desk.

If you're doing in-home session, always have an escape route. Like you're tr we are literally trained. To prepare for something to happen. And I, it, it's very hard for me to sep separate my social work brain from my, my own brain because like, it's just so engraved in me from school. And then how many years of experience do we have in the field now?

Like, I'm constantly, like, I don't, I don't like sitting with my back to the door, like at a restaurant, like at a bar, like at somebody's house. Like, I'm always like, I need to see everything. I, I am the same way. And now that you've mentioned it, like I realize how particular I am. And I always said is like, well, I want a people watch and like, I wanna have the view of the rest.

And now that you say that, that's actually clicking in the moment. Like, I always wanna sit where I can have the biggest view of everybody in the room because I wanna know when, where I'm sitting, what's going on. Right? Yep. And Like it, that's just so crazy that that just finally clicked. I love when we have these moments.

It's so fun. It's so fun. It's so fun recognizing my trauma for everyone to listen to, including Bumble dates, . Oh my God. So I mean, I dunno how you do it. I, I don't wanna do it, but what I mean I do. I don't fucking know. Fuck me. So, so how many guys that have listened to your podcast before meeting with you actually met up with you?

I tried to tell them don't. Listen to it. . But why do you bring it up? It's on my profile. I take it off. I think it's great. It's funny. My profile is not like meet with you anymore. But they love it. . . That's the, that's the side. I didn't expect That's bubble to get the followers. Yeah. I'm just here to promote myself on Bumble.

Y'all haven't played . Just kidding. No. It was like, write a witty thing about yourself and I was like, oh, typical millennial with a podcast, an obsession with their dog and spending too much money on tattoos. And I was like, that's pretty much sums it up. And so we've actually gotten. A decent amount of listeners that like, guys were like, what's the name of your podcast?

And I give it to them and I've gotten text messages and they were like, I fucking love this . And well, I have to laugh because we're joint on the podcast account, . And like, it'll be like, this one's following you, this one requested to follow you. And I was like, oh, must be Ashley's new friend. Ashley's new friend,

And then I go and scope their page. . I didn't even think about that. , I know who you're dating before you tell me. Yeah, I forgot that you have access to that. Well, the one time, it was a a while ago, but like The one person like you know, meet them at a bar just chatting in the smoking section.

And it was right when like one of our videos went like kind of viral on reels and we got like 11,000 views. I don't even know how, I don't know how either and I don't get it, but I did. And like something because none of them, none of the rested. And I don't think it's our best reel like at all. I'm laying in bed with my dog I think.

Yeah, you're lying in your dog bed. And we're just editing the last episode and it was the point where we're listening to where we said that like living with a man is like finding out that Santa's not real or like just living with your partner in general is like finding out Santa Claus is not real.

Like you imagine living with your partner as like this magical event and you're like, holy shit, living with another person is disgusting. Yep. Like they are . They are not on my level. They do not clean the way that I clean. They leave shit all over the place. They eat food in the most random places and.

Somehow that got viral. And the , the guy, the person followed me on they, you know, flirting and was like, oh, I'm in a band, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, cool. Well, you follow your, you follow us, we'll follow you. You know, mutual . Mutual Mutual exchange. In mutual exchange. And while we have that mutual exchange, by the way, like he, I think, messaged something on the podcast episode to the podcast page.

And you thought it was one of the people spamming us because that video went viral. And you're like, . I went into defense mode. Fucking, I like deleted them, blocked them, reported them. And Ashley is like, no, no, . Yeah, you like going outta your way to delete block report. And then it's like, oh, I forgot about that.

Oh, by the way, I do actually know, I kind of know, I don't know them, but , I met them . I forgot about that. Yeah, that was funny. So now I just accept everybody yolo. That was, that was really weird that, that went viral, by the way. But no, like, it's very honest, it's upfront. Although the frie after sex comment, like, I think I was talking to you and you're like, what are you doing?

I was like, drinking a frie. You're like, what did you just do? And like, just so you know, guys, I don't just like have sex and have a frie every fucking time. , what the fuck is a frizzle? It's the strawberry milkshake from Friendly's. Oh my God. It's essentially a milkshake. Or No, it wasn't you, it was someone else.

And I was like, they're like, that was not me. It wasn't you. I thought it was you, but it's not. And I said you know, and they were like, oh, what did you just do? And I forgot about the comment I even made because God forbid, Had sex one time in my life and had a frie after and thought it was the greatest thing.

and I said it on air. Now everyone thinks that if I'm drinking a frie or a strawberry milkshake of some sort, that means that I just got fucked, but I didn't. Okay. Sorry. To my siblings that now listen to the podcast also because you're welcome. Am I? You could make it your after sex thing. I mean, it's no, that's a once a month, if anything.

Type deal. I can't have that much calories. I will, I was gonna say getting fucked or eating the milkshake. . . What? Say that again. . You said that's a once a month thing and I say getting fucked or having the milkshake. the milkshake.

You ain't get fucked on like, at least a daily basis. , oh god. A daily, no. A weak minimum. Joking. No you're not. Back to trauma. . Add to the trauma. Let's go back to the avoidance and go back to tr I've never wanted to avoid a, a topic of conversation to go back to talking about my trauma. , it was a new form of avoidance.

 Oh, also I got like the vo Your voice is so sexy again, like at least four to five times since our last recording. When you're drunk, your voice annoys me. I, I, my own voice annoys me. So like, I completely understand my own voice annoys me on a daily basis. I'm like, so I'm just spreading the love. Well all write then anyway.

 Changes in physical and emotional, I just, it's just a weird thing to hear, like, anyway. Well, because everybody hates their own voice. Everybody hates the sound of their own voice. So every time I listen to it, I'm like, I don't feel like I sound like the same person in person versus recorded. Mm-hmm.

Well, I'm just like, is that how I really sound? Right? But anyway so yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm many of those trouble sleeping. Easily fatigued, trouble concentrating. I bounce all over the place. I'm, I definitely dissociate. Like there's plenty of times that I hear you, but I also say, huh, because it didn't register because of either like daydreaming or dissociating, I tend to blame that on being a Pisces.

 But there's definitely some drama there. Irritability, angers, aggressive behavior. Like, I wouldn't consider myself aggressive, but I can get very irritable and I can tend to like, unload all at once and then bring it back. But definitely like, there's times that I just feel like overstimulated, I think, and I just can't, I can't control it anymore.

 Tremors. My hands always shake. I do have tmj, back pain, neck pain. My chiropractor said I have the back of geriatrics, so like, that's fun. Yeah, I mean, I, I pretty much hit every single one of those fucking symptoms. I don't know about you. I don't think I'm that bad. , thank you. No problem. I mean, I have a lot of it, but like I, going back to the avoidance, I don't let myself feed into it because my mentality is if it's not there or if I don't pay attention to it, it's not happening.

Well, cheers to that. I'm literally telling Bumble dates to like fucking listen to my , my podcast and my drama. Cheers. Yeah. So that also like XM out of my, my pool. Thanks . And I found out my ex-husband tried to started to listen to the podcast. Like I think he thought I was gonna like talk shit and I don't.

Right? So like, there's that now. And another thing too, like side note, side rant, like every person I've ever met is like, oh, are you gonna talk about me on the podcast? Like, no, I don't talk about you. I don't talk about people unless I get permission now. Like , I don't wanna talk about any situation or any person unless I have that permission ahead of time.

And like, what makes you think your dick's that important . I'm sorry, but like, what makes you think your dick's that important? That I'm gonna like come on air, talk about it. Like it's just said inflated. Right? Cause like it's not about them, it's about us and like our experience, right? Like I'm literally talking about like psychological issues and trauma with my best friend and also a therapist.

I am not that concerned with your fucking dick and like how you, how you are in bed . Right? That's not what it's all about. No. As much as you might wanna think it is anyway. So there's when it comes to C P T S D, which is what really inspired me to kind of get into this as the topic is so C P T S D is again that thing that's kind of like evolving and in order for CPTs D, which is complex PTs, Post-traumatic stress disorder is that you're gonna have these symptoms already of P T S D.

And then so these are the common symptoms, and that includes avoiding situations that remind a person of the trauma, dizziness, or nausea when remembering the trauma. Hyper arousal, which means, you know, being in a continual state of high alert, the belief that the world is a dangerous place. A loss of trust in self or others, and difficulty sleeping and concentrating.

So those are like that, if you ever remember those like circle diagrams when we were kids. Like that's the thing in the middle between the two. So people with PTSD or complex ptsd d may also experience again in that middle circle a negative self view. Complex p s D can cause a person to view themselves negatively and feel helpless, guilty, or ashamed.

They often consider themselves to be different from other people. Changes in beliefs and worldview. People with, well, hold on, hold on, go ahead. So, negative self-view, like. The guilty and the ashamed part. Like how many times do we do that to ourselves daily? Like we just do something and then we're like, oh fuck.

Daily about the dumbest shit. Right? And like that's also why I like, there's so many times that I talk to you and like the people that I confide in and you're like, that's nothing to be fucking ashamed of. Like, we're fucking human beings. And it's constant. It is a constant state of always feeling like guilt or ashamed for just talking.

for just being human. But like, do you feel guilty to yourself or do you feel like guilty or ashamed because of like what other people think? Like what causes that? It's a mix of both. Like I feel like in my mind I need to uphold some kind of standard of like, this is how I should act, this is how I should respond.

But like, who the fuck determines that standard? And then it's very, it's very conflicting if we're gonna really get into it. But because at the same time there's a part of me that wishes I could be fully myself in a situation, and then when I talk too much, I'm like guilting and shaming myself for talking too much, for being too much of a human.

I mean, how many times when we edit the podcast, I'm like, I cannot fucking leave that in there. And you and Tim are like, no, no, no, it's not that bad. It's not that bad that you wanted to like punk kick a fucking five year old for like hitting the drums out of beat, like whatever it was. Like it, it's just, it's human behavior and it's nature and at the end of the day, it's me.

So you're gonna find it out left, you know, if you, you really wanted to get to know me, you're gonna find it out at some point. Right. But I just feel like the guilty and the, the shame piece, like I think a lot of that is because of what other people bring to the table. Yeah. Like the guilt piece I think is internal because it's like you feel guilty for doing something like, you know that it was wrong, ashamed.

I think it's like something you don't wanna admit that you did because of society and like friends and family's views. I mean, I get that both definitely. And I definitely, and I've said this before, like it's a struggle for me to talk myself out of caring what other people think. But that is a constant thought in my mind, is caring what other people think and that we'll get in.

 That's actually something that comes around a little bit more for C P T S D is like that constant. And it's a lot of work for me just to think on a day-to-day basis because I'm constantly thinking about like other people and their perception. So I was, I got like drunk off of two martinis the other night at dinner with my mom and my aunt.

I don't know how. And we were at the house and I'm like cracking up in my head and they're just like looking at me and I'm like, I'm slightly embarrassed to like tell you this, this story, but I'm going to. So like I had, you know, somebody sleep over and in the morning he was like, yo, your dog punched me last night.

Letty? No, Rocky . And I'm like, what do you mean he punched you? And he's like, he straight up like punched me last night. And I just start laughing because like he will paw at you if he wants you to lift up the blanket to go under cuz he wants to like cuddle. But this person was like very like, take him back that my dog punched him

And for me it's just normal. Like yeah, just lift the blanket, like let 'em under . And you just felt like ashamed of it the next day? ? No, like I felt embarrassed like telling my mom this story, but I was cracking up about it.

I mean, meanwhile, . I, that was just my most recent experience with shame. It, it's hard and it's difficult. I don't even know how to come back from that Stephanie . But if you think about it, like you just slept at a bitch's house and like her dog punches you, , I've done so much worse that I'm replaying in my mind right now that I can't even say it out loud.

I'm so ashamed. . I mean, I can name a few. Hmm. Yeah. I'm none of yours, . I Exactly. I'm staring at one right now. I'm, I said we weren't gonna talk about it . We didn't have to talk about it, but we have to say what it was. No, we don't . We'll bring that up during our sleepwalking podcast. Hmm. Changes and beliefs in worldview.

People with either condition may hold a negative view of the world and the people in it, or lose faith in previously held beliefs. I've definitely had that. I have jumped religions multiple fucking times in terms of. Beliefs. And I have definitely like had those moments where I've lost faith in those around me.

Not not in the, I don't know, I don't know how to word this. You just kind of like developed a sense of apathy it seems like, where it's just like, this is what it is. Like there's just no hope in the world. It, it's just a negative view and it's, well, this is a screening question on one of the depression tests.

Yeah. Bitch about it. . Are you, yeah. And you're still smoking vape,

and not as much . Well, there you go. No, like, this is, this is a big, I bring it up because this is a big one. Like when, when your therapist or your doctor, whatever, there are screening questions that specifically asked like, , have you lost faith in your religion? Do you feel like your religion has failed you?

 It's a very, very common one.

I mean, it's definitely important and I think I oops. And I definitely had like a moment that I, I lost it in everything and I was like, well, what's the point of any organized fucking religion? And I still feel that way. But in terms of organizations, it was like, well, why join this? Why join that everyone's.

Everyone's just a piece of shit anyway. And I mean that in a very loving and endearing way. I still love you if you're a piece of shit. But like what's the point in joining? Like you're not invested in me anyway, is like my worldview is like, well you're not really gonna be that invested in me anyway, because we're all self-centered beings and that's where my brain starts to go.

All right, so emotional regulation difficulty. So these are conditions that can cause people to lose control over their emotions. They may experience intense anger or sadness or have thoughts of suicide. Yep. I mean, I definitely struggle with emotional regulation, but that could be for a number of things too, because like between d h, ADHD and emotional regulation and like just seasonal depression and, and P T S D and or in general, like, it just, I don't know how to explain it.

 Like when I hear this, like I always think about like, When something not so serious happens to somebody and they have this huge blow up reaction. Oh, you mean like earlier today when I couldn't get my microphone to work and I was running late and I was freaking out and you had to text me, just breathe

Yeah. Cuz you looked like you were on the verge of a mental breakdown and I was about to reschedule. Yeah. For no reason, for no reason. And that's, I just, I mean, I've just come to the point that like, and I think this has been the best, best path for me, is just accepting that this is gonna happen. I'm recognizing when it's happening, like, okay, like I'm recognizing it and I'm just gonna sit and breathe for a couple minutes and like, this is just how I operate.

This is just my emotional response is that I'm going to emotionally respond with dysregulation and I need to take a step back and think about it. If that makes sense. Yeah. That's what we should all be doing. Yeah. . And we don't, as a society, we do not. I did a good job today. I mean, it took me a couple minutes, but I did it.

I'm proud of you. Anything else you wanna add or no? Mm-hmm. . So relationship issues is another symptom. So relationships may, that's a common symptom between C P T S D and PTs, and we will like, kind of like narrow down C P T S D in a little bit. Relationships may suffer due to difficulties trusting, interacting, and because of a negative self view, a person with either condition may tend to develop unhealthy relationships if they are what the person has known in the past.

 Welcome to my life. Welcome to my, I was gonna say, I feel like that's everybody. Yeah. Like that is uncomfortable with everybody. We tend to go with what we feel is comfortable and sometimes trauma and P T S D and, and chaos is our comfortability. Well, they always say the hardest relationship is a healthy one after a toxic one.

 Absolutely 110%. I can agree with that. I mean, I have yet to find the healthy one after the toxic , but

Well, cricket

it, it's, it's hard because it's like the first red flag and like, I'm out and usually like I collect those, but it's like, lately, anymore, I'm just like, Nope, not doing this. I remember the first time that like, I had a fight with somebody and I had like my whole like, flashback meltdown, and they were like, no, no, no.

I understand. Like, just go to bed, you know, we'll talk in the morning. It's okay. I love, and you're like, what? I had no idea how to react. I'm used to like, I was literally like crawling up the steps, like crying and I was like like waiting for like the holes in the wall. Like the massive blow up. Yes. The like, let's fight until we fall asleep at 2:00 AM I was.

Probably I, in my mind, and I don't think I was, but in my mind I was on all fours crawling up the steps, which I wasn't. But in my mind I think I was, because I just always feel like a caged possum when I coach a caged possum. Yes. Like I feel like a, a, a like feral, caged possum when I start to get in that like mode and I'm just like ready to bite at anything that comes my way.

So even if you're right, and even if I'm wrong, like it doesn't matter, like you've already triggered that response in me because of the fight or flight and like the, like having to physically kick a body off of me. Like I go back to that moment and I start to become feral in, in verbally and in other senses.

I'm just thinking about you and your Poo Bear costume. . Oh god. Well,

No, but like that's the thing, it's like that probably had a play in it because shout, like, shout out to anybody that has had 100% healthy relationships. But for the rest of us where like there was always something in every relationship and like you always go back to the same type because like that's where you're comfortable.

And I think it's because like you know what to expect and it's like when somebody's just genuine and nice and like follows through with what they're going to say, you're like, what do I do with this? Right. And you don't know how to handle it. And then to me it's like, what's your ulterior motive? Like what is, what is your, what are you gonna expect from me tomorrow?

Because in my mind that's how all of humanity is. And like I, I, it's funny cuz I had this conversation with a couple coworkers the other day and I said, I don't know if like healthy parental relationships exist. Like, does anybody ever grow up with parents in a healthy marriage? and. And like, I thought about it and I was like, no, I do have friends that have openly kind of said like, I didn't have to deal with that.

And it's like, okay. Like, it, it, but to me, I question the entire world that like, it, does that exist? Like Right. Does a healthy marriage exist? Does a healthy relationship exist? I think there's a difference between a healthy marriage and two married people making a happy home and family for the kids.

Because as a kid you don't know what always happens behind closed doors.

 They didn't, they never closed those doors. , right? Like, so, like right for you. Like they never closed those doors for mine. A lot of those doors were closed. Or like, like, you know what I mean? Learning about different things. As you get older, you're just like, damn, I never knew that. Or maybe I did and I blocked it out because my trauma was trying to save me.

 Some survivors will report complete amnesia of the trauma. I think this relates to those that disassociate mm-hmm. because your mind is protecting you by just completely blocking out that memory so you don't have to deal with it again. I just like when these things happen, like I just seriously think of how like amazing our brains are that it, it's just so motivated to protect us and bring us like equilibrium all the time.

Like it just blows my mind when you really sit down and think about it, and on a cellular level, how much our brains are releasing certain hormones at certain times. To constantly protect us and we have no fucking clue that that's what it's doing. Sorry, side rant. No, it's true because our body does so many things that I don't even think that we are aware of.

 And meanwhile I just sit and talk shit on it all day, right, . And it's, it's amazing. Like it really is amazing that it releases this chemical at this time. It does this at this all to protect us, to protect our mental health. . It does all of these things and it just, it really does blow my mind. So the next is preoccupation with the abuser.

And it's not uncommon to fixate on the abuser and the relationship with the abuser or getting revenge for the abuse. I feel like this is like the ex-boyfriend that cheated. I'm not saying it's that for every case with P ts D, but I feel like. If you have a significant breakup and something very serious happens, some of these symptoms can become a reality.

Definitely. And the more we get into like that C P T S D, it's probably gonna sound a little bit more familiar. I think even for both of us knowing like both of our history. So loss of systems meaning is another symptom. So systems of meaning refer to your religion or beliefs about the world.

 For example, you might lose faith in some long held beliefs you had or develop a strong sense of despair and hopelessness about the world, which we kind of already touched on in regards to another one. But again, this is all pretty fluid. It, it flows into the other thing and that's what can sometimes make it hard to determine those symptoms because we just want black and white.

Like we don't recognize the fluidity. No, there is no black and white. so at all, and black is my favorite color. , I know you don't believe me, but same . So symptoms of complex ptsd s d can vary and they may change over time. People with that condition may also experience symptoms other than what we listed above.

So people who have ptsd, T S D or complex ptsd s d, can tend to react to life situations as if they are reliving the trauma. The particular situation that triggers a person can be random and varies depending on their specific trauma history. A Go ahead. No, go ahead. go, I was just gonna finish that last sentence.

A person can be triggered by situations, images, smells, conversations with others, and more like how you mentioned earlier, Stephanie, like just a touch on the back or a certain thing, like can bring you back to that moment. I was gonna say, I feel like this trigger piece is a huge one for PTs D because you don't know.

When and where and how that trigger's gonna happen. Like you don't have like a, on Tuesday at three o'clock, your P T S D is gonna be triggered. It can happen anywhere at any moment with anything. And you don't know because it is your body's subconscious physical reaction to that experience. And that's why I say like it, like it could be the stupidest thing, not stupid, but like somebody just trying to say, excuse me, and get through the bar and I'm ready to turn around and punch them.

And it's like you, which did happen recently. , I punched somebody. You were about to fight that girl . Oh.

It was her fault. It was her fault. It was gonna be, that was not my fault. This time. second part fight on the podcast. with you. Oh, I forgot about that. Basically this girl kept bumping into Stephanie, you know, like you do at a bar. And I think they both were getting irritated with the bumping of personal space and like Yeah.

That is a trigger though. If like you are having your personal space, like repeatedly invaded . I was in a chair. I was in a, a chair. Yeah. So why is her chair bumping me? Like what did she, she like jumping on her chair room. But whose chair moves that much? Why are you moving that much in your chair? Like, bitch, sit down.

That was my problem. It's like we're sitting in chairs at the bar. Oh, there is no reason for you to keep hitting me anyway, . No, I mean I saw it happening and then A, a thing, a mozzarella sauce. Like a wait, like marinara sauce got knocked over by accident and the reaction was just completely over the top.

But I mean, who knows what else was going on that night with her that made her reaction over the top. She, that just might have been like the scapegoat she needed. Because she did, she did apologize. And after you bought her a beer, which is the right thing to do, you know, you bought her a beer that got knocked over and she did apologize and say, you know, I'm sorry.

I kind of feel like an asshole now. And thereby the grace of God go away. I have definitely had reactions like that for no reason. Not no reason, but it's other things. And like you were just the, the punching bag in that moment. Hell no, I ain't nobody's fucking punching bag. Oh, you made that known. Yeah.

You made that known . You made that known. I mean, you, you handled it very well. . But yeah, because I didn't punch her in the face, like I felt like it , I thought that's exactly what was gonna happen. . So where were we at? , but Oh, that, that was, she kept saying like, you didn't apologize. And I was like, I asked you if you were okay.

And she's like, no, you said that's not an apology. You said, are you good? Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what I said. I said, are you good? But we're from Jersey. That's how we ask everybody. We're like, yo, are you good ? Like, are you good? And she just went off about me not apologizing about something that was not my fault.

And I think I turned around and looked at you and was like, yo, I'm about to punch this bitch in the face. I mean, it deescalated pretty quickly. And thankfully but I just remember the, even like the people around us were like kind of on your side and they were like, why are you fighting over this

Hmm. Like, why are you fighting her over this? This is dumb. It's just always me. Everybody just wants to bother me because you're short. Shut up. That is not even true. No, I think it is. I think people wanna fuck with short people. I, they're hype supremacists, , like they . Please explain. Because I feel like every time I go to the bar, like somebody tries to fuck with me because they think you're easy targets.

So they pick on the small person and that's why they have like this idea of like short man syndrome because they have been picked on because people think they're fucking easy targets and they're not. And like there's so many times that like, I have seen it happen and for whatever we, like you are way more scrappy than I think I would be.

I mean, I don't wanna pull my shit out, but like, cuz I am, I am a trained boxer . I, you're not. I am, I swear to God. But I don't wanna, I don't, I will not put my money on you in a bar fight. I mean, you should because I, I will fucking, I have crazy strength. Like, have you met me? I'm fucking insane. Like, I will Yeah.

But I just can't see you in a bar fight because I don't want to, you would wanna talk it out. And I've had people even say to me, they're like, like, you look like you can kick someone's ass a little bit. I'm like, I don't want to, like, it doesn't need to go there. Nothing needs to go there. Nothing's that fucking, yeah.

But don't you ever just get the urge to like fight. Absolutely. But like, I think it's like a human instinct to just fight. Like sometimes I just, I don't wanna talk about it. Like, I just wanna fight. I've just had like, I think so much of my life in that fight mode that I'm over it. No, but I mean like physical fight.

Yeah. Yeah.

like, I've just, I mean, it, it tends to be with men , but. . I don't know. I just, my physical altercations end up with men and like, to me that is a trigger of going back there because like I said, I've had to kick like a huge muscular body off of me that like, it brings me back to that place and I don't wanna go there.

No, I'm not talking about, about self-defense, like, like domestic abuse. I'm talking about just like a straight up street flight. Well that's, that's what it brings me back to is like what I'm trying to say is like that flash, that's a trigger for me to go back to that place where I'm like, do or die.

Symptoms of complex PTSDs can vary and they may change over time. People with that condition may also experience symptoms other than the above, like what we've already listed. People who have PTSD or complex ptsd. Let me read that again. Symptoms of complex ptsd, T S D can vary and they may change over time, and people with that condition may also experience symptoms other than what we've already talked about.

 People with ptsd, s d or complex PTSD, T S D can react to different in life situations as if they're reliving the trauma. The particular situation that triggers a person can be random, and it varies depending on their specific trauma history. Oh, we already did that. Fuck me. was gonna say, where are you?

I fucked up. So we'll just cut that. This triggering, so that triggering that we just talked about can manifest as a fight or flight response triggered by the amygdala, which is what's responsible in our brain for processing emotions. When this happens, a person's brain can perceive that they are in danger even when they're not.

This is known as the amygdala hijack, and it can result in things like flashbacks, nightmares being easily startled. All of the things we kind of listed above. People with PTSD D or complex PTSD d may exhibit certain behaviors in an attempt to manage their symptoms. And some of those behaviors include misusing alcohol or drugs, avoiding unpleasant situations by becoming people pleasers, which is what I tend to do lashing out at minor criticisms.

Also what I can tend to do and self-harm. Also what I can tend to do. So in college, the way that I remembered what the amygdala was responsible for in all our psych classes and everything else there was a period in my life as a child that I had this alter ego, and I named her Amy. And Amy would be whoever I wanted her to be, and she would.

Funny and like popular and just like no fuck given. And just like this totally different person. I would even give out like birthday cards to my family that like, one was from me and one was from Amy. Wait, this is so innovative. . So you did this as an actual child? Oh yeah. Ask, ask my mom and aunt, aunt about it.

We bring up emails, not as a human adult, no. As a child. And this, and this is not the invisible friend that you would let out of the car, . No, those are my friends. Like I, I would be like, no, like Amy is here. Like I'm Amy today and I would be this totally different child. That's actually, I'm, I'm very impressed by your brain.

I'm nuts. This is not normal. I think that's great. I think that's an awesome thing that your brain was like, I'm going to like manifest the things that I wanna be in this person. Yeah. I couldn't do it as myself. I was too like Sasha Fierce. Yeah. Like I was too scared to do it as myself as Stephanie. So I created this whole alternate persona and I, for some reason named her Amy.

That's actually what a lot of celebrities do. Like Beyonce has Sasha Fierce. Well, Amy, I'm g a genius then. You are. I think you might be, cuz that brings people pretty far. Beyonce has always described herself as having like the Sasha Fierce and that's what she brings on stage. And her Beyonce separately is like what we remember from like Destiny's Child where she, but I think celebrities have to do that.

Absolutely. And then you have to, I am not a celebrity. I mean, you could be like, what am I gonna say? Like, Hey, do you wanna start dating? Do you want the Stephanie version or the Amy version? I think, I think they do it naturally. And you have that ability to do it naturally, is what I'm saying. Like, you have that ability.

I'm a Gemini and I'm nuts. I mean, I've always had two personalities. It's okay. I, I love both of them. . I sound like a crazy person. I want to people please both of your personalities. as a Pisces. I mean, you and Amy would get along great. Oh, . Let me meet her.

Maybe I do need to bring it back. I love Amy already.

 I'm just thinking back on like , like I would give people birthday cards sign. Amy, did you really? Yes, I, I, I feel some type of way, but I also don't

like I'm actually like really happy for you, but at the same time I'm a little concerned. But you signed birthday cards from Amy. Like I have's what smash that I'm saying, but I never signed things. Smashley and Ashley. Yeah. But I was a child pre alcohol and drugs doing this. I know. That's what makes it even more fascinating that you just had both

I mean maybe I did and I don't remember and I blocked it out and then I'll be really ashamed. But yeah, I mean those are the days. That's very insight. The fact that you would sign fucking cards like that. Can you just do that from now on? Anything that requires your signature with me? Can you put And why did you pick Amy?

I don't know. I guess cuz it was totally different from Stephanie

I don't know. Like, no one influenced you, there was not like an older sibling like pushing this to you? No. At that point in my life, my older siblings wanted nothing to do with me because they were such a big age difference. Like, they like xed me out of their life for a period bec and like, not to any fault, like, I'm nine years old, they're 18, 19, like, just totally different parts of our lives.

So like, no, I had the same thing. I get it. So like, I was kind of, I kind of grew up as like an only child with siblings. Like I didn't get to play with them like I. Kids that are a year or two or three years apart. So I had to, you know, I just made people up and made new personalities and I was content flying by myself.

I just really want to see all the videos of you from childhood and all of the, like every time you talk to me about your childhood, I am so intrigued by it. Like I'm so intrigued and in love with it because you are such a together personality in your adulthood. As long as I've known you, by the way, I realized the other day we've known each other almost 10 years.

Do you know that? No. It'll be 10 years and two years, so 10 98. So we've known each other for eight years. Isn't that fucking weird? That is wild. But didn't know that. Like you're just such a naturally put together person in my eyes that like I would love to see. These crazy alter egos and the newscaster van

Oh, I loved playing a news news broadcaster. That's my favorite. I really hope I get to see those videos. One day I'll have to text my mom. They're probably on like the VHS from when like you had the big ass camera that had to go on your shoulder. I mean, I have your mom's phone number. She's under mama Lama, so I will absolutely text her myself and request them and pay to get them put on a dvd D somewhere,

I'll post them. I'll for sure post them. I have, I have no shame in those. I was very proud of those moments. I'm proud of those moments for you, . Thank you. So back to C P T S D. Oftentimes with CBT D, which is again complex post-traumatic stress disorder they've experienced prolonged trauma. So that's the difference between C P T S D and PTs D is that it's not one singular event, it's an ongoing physical and emotional abuse of some sort or sexual abuse.

 Other examples of trauma that can cause the complex PTs D includes experiencing human trafficking, being a prisoner of war, living in a region affected by war outside of the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that was ongoing. A 2021 study showed that of re refugees and asylum seekers, 19.4% of the participants fit the diagnosis for C P T S.

Or I'm sorry, of P T S D and 49.5. So almost 50% fit the criteria for complex PTs d And if you think about that, how many people in this world are a refugee or asylum seeker? And this shit happens way more than it makes the news. Yep. So like even all the stuff that's going on with u Ukraine right now, like just how many people leave their country, like that experience within itself could lead to the symptoms in this experience.

And like a, a l again, another side note, but like I know we've mentioned before, like generational trauma, but my family's from the Ukraine and we still have family members in the Ukraine. Not any that we've really kept in contact with over the years, but for eight you know, like my great-grandmother to be a 14 year old fucking immigrant to the United States on her own, no parents and figuring this out, like of course she's gonna be fucking traumatized and her trauma carries to her daughter, who is my grandmother, who I don't wanna go into like the family dynamics too much to offend anybody, but like there's, I think we can all agree there was trauma that was passed on to her that was passed on to her kids and passed on.

Like it just gets passed down. And like we don't realize how much this P T S D and C P T S D and these can eventually turn into generational or secondary trauma. And, and that's just a, a light example. I mean, if we really wanna go into it when we think about the African-American community and what they've been through You know, that is such a big deal in terms of generational trauma and this is kind of that starting point for us to understand like just how serious all this fucking is and how serious it is to pay attention to it when it is happening to us.

So we don't keep carrying this cycle on. Well said. I was gonna say, did I make sense ? Yeah. I think it's like, it's

like pretty much just saying that like one generation's trauma affects how they parent their kids and then their trauma affects how they parent the next kids. And that's what we mean by generational trauma. It's not that the kid is taking on exactly what the mom or dad went through, but it's like they've had an experience that's gonna change how they parent, which is gonna change how a child grows up.

Right? And a lot of times people try too hard to make up for that, and then it goes in a different direction. So since complex trauma is prolonged, it often begins in early childhood. So traumatic childhood experiences also known as adverse childhood experiences or ACEs in the therapy world, that's what it's known as can include some of the following.

So it's childhood exposure to violence, abuse or neglect, a death by suicide in the family, substance use or dependence in the family, mental health disorders, having incarcerated family members, chronic poverty or neglect, housing instability, and growing up in an unsafe or crime heavy environment. The ACEs is an actual.

Tool that most therapists and psychiatrists will use. And approximately 61% of adults have a high score on the ACEs. So surveyed in 25 US states. They reported having at least one ACEs in their childhood, and one in six have said they've experienced four or more. And I kind of wanna point out that I feel like these numbers are low because you are surveying and you're treating people that have access to help.

So the people that score high in this most likely do not have the resources or choose to access help. So having one or more of these experience these situations does not necessarily mean that a person will develop it. But the more, the higher a person scores on ACEs, the more likely they are to develop P T S D.

So like, here's a good example of something that to just put it into perspective, and I'm not saying this is my specific example, but it's pretty relatable in some senses. You might have an emotionally unavailable parent and another that struggles with their anger. And there's a lot of yelling and chaos in the household.

And it creates what's called like a hyper vigilance state, which again, we've talked about in the trauma and responses episode. But that develops in childhood because there's constant threats and your brain and your nervous system is developing at that time in childhood. So now you struggle to trust people and we develop trust issues.

Hello. Because you never felt safe and you may have a. to be super harsh or critical of yourself. You develop that idea that people don't really like you and you're a burden and you cope by disassociating. Like you're there, but you're not really there for extended periods of time. You're triggered very easily and you're overwhelmed in relationships and struggle with emotional regulation and can be impulsive at times.

So if you are one of those people that looked at my dating pro and started to listen to it, welcome to me That's pretty much what I could put on a dating profile. , for you to understand me completely to put what, listen to the podcast. Yeah well, no, I mean, just everything that was just listed, like the super harsh critical, like the dissociating, like I'm probably not gonna answer your text for like one to two days.

 Three to five business days, . But there also may be emotional flashbacks on PTs and C P T S D where there's a strong, and I know we talked earlier about like kind of those more physical type flashbacks but there might be emotional flashback, flashbacks of feeling guilt or sadness, shame and rage or disgusted and other uncontrollable emotions that overtake you outta nowhere.

 Or at least it seems like it's outta nowhere, which can make you feel paralyzed because of the intensity of that emotion and not understanding where it came from is so fucking frustrating. And it can trigger unhealthy coping skills like self-harm, substance use, et cetera. I think it's just important to no doubt that like when you have all of these things that negatively impact you, it's very easy to treat it negatively.

 It's very easy to turn to drugs, turn to sex, turn to multiple relationships, turn to things that feel good, to like kind of avoid it and make it go away. But the important part of it, and the true part of like actually healing it is like nurturing your inner child. Agreed. And I think that's where a lot of the work is not done, is that we're so focused on why did I act the way that I did today without realizing that it's something that we need to uncover the many years of our entire life because it started somewhere we don't know where and we have to figure that out.

So I think like the bigger part is figuring out. What happened when, and like, how do I fix that part of my life? And it's not necessarily that I have to fix the relationship that I'm in. I have to fix me. That got fucked up five years ago, 10 years ago. Right. And then, and to go back to your point about that, your inner child too, like how important that is to nurture that, nurture that inner child because and even when I went when you and I and some of our other friends went on that retreat, there was this one class that was about your inner child and we just played, like, we played games and we talked about it.

And that was the most emotional response that I have seen at an entire retreat dedicated, essentially to emotional wellness, unlike breakdowns. And that was when everybody in the room kind of had a breakdown when we were talking about. Just breaking down those barriers and even the person instructing it had a moment where they were like, I'm just kind of realizing this now, that like this is what my childhood was based on.

So this is why I act certain ways and nurturing the inner child and being able to love that inner child again because something is not working for you right now in your adult life doesn't mean that it's something that happened in your adult life. And if you find yourself in these same negative patterns, you have to go back in your life.

And like in therapy, we like to say peel the onion because you have to like pull the layers back to figure out where did this initially happen. And I think that's the hard part is cuz most people, the work gets hard. Like doing the work is the hard part and most people don't wanna bring it back and try to figure out like what happened when.

and a lot of those symptoms play into each other like that avoidance is gonna play into it like that. Like wanting to peel back that onion. That avoidance is gonna be a barrier. So Ashley, yeah. Tell me how you really feel. I need to process for a second. . Okay. That is the most millennial thing I think I've ever said is like, I need to process for a minute a little bit.

This is an intense episode, . It is, it's a, it's a tough topic because I feel like P T S D is more common than we acknowledge and or treat. And I feel like these symptoms occur on most people's day-to-day lives that they wouldn't even say that it's related to trauma or ptsd because it happens so naturally.

Yeah. And like you think it's just you and you think it's okay and you just think that this is how my life is. When reality, like you could maybe do some research on yourself and improve those areas of your life. You know, another example that someone has brought up to me is about the physical trauma that they endured and how their entire mind blocked out the physical trauma, like when they went through like a terrible physical trauma after childbirth and how their body just automatically blocked it out.

And that loss of control and knowing that like you don't actually control your own brain , right? You don't. So the bottom line is just self-reflect on how you respond to triggers and see if there's anywhere that you could maybe take a deep dive into yourself to improve your overall wellbeing. So is that how you really feel?

Cause I didn't ask you, tell me how you really feel, Steph. That is how I really feel. I just feel like we can always do something better. It's the hard, it's the work to be put in that you don't wanna do. Like, I know, I avoid, like, I'll be the first one to admit it. I avoid so I don't have to deal with it.

But I know that's an issue that I have. And I think in, in a way, like in acceptance of that avoidance, like cuz we tend to guilt ourselves for that avoidance. Like we overly guilt ourselves for the avoidance and we're like, we're not good enough, and then we shut it all off. Yeah. In a way. , what is that in front of the camera?

My bowl of popcorn. . I don't, this was a deep one. This is a hard one. I know. I'm kind, I'm like lost for words and I have to go feed the dogs and get ready for bowling. I'm really proud of it though.

We'll see you once it gets edited. You don't like it? No, I didn't say that. I just always like to hear it after it's edited and we're good. I mean, I think we came out like it was a lot of the pe, the people wanted personal stories. We got fucking personal, that's for sure. That is for Showa, but we're about to get kicked off of our Zoom meeting.

Oh, awesome. Because I really wanted to rerecord our intro too. Not today at some point. Okay. Everyone hates our intro . Everybody. No, I've heard it from a couple people. They're like, it's pretty annoying. Mostly my part where I'm like, we get to yell so hard. Everyone's annoy that. I told you not to put it in there.

I thought it was funny at the time, but I was probably drunk. Yeah. So this is Ashley and Stephanie with Tell me how you really feel and we get derailed so hard. Have a good night.