Tribute Through Tango

This episode is dedicated to MsBoye and those that we have lost from "Actual Lives." After a tribute to MsBoye from Jennifer McKinney, Adam and Celia discuss Maggie Jochild's "Crip Ward Tango" and do a reenactment of it with music. Celia also reads Maggie Jochild's "Elvis Lives" piece. Celia and Adam talk about their memories of MsBoye and Mike Burns, and Celia reads Mike Burns' "Mop Boy." We end with John Beer's tribute to MsBoye.

Click here to listen with the full transcript

For more details about our programs go to Art Spark Texas, True Tales Podcast Page.

Transcript

Kristen Gooch: 0:09

Welcome to True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast. Authentic voices of people thriving with disabilities, where individuals use the art of storytelling to change the world.

John Beer: 0:22

The True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast is produced by Art Spark Texas' Speaking Advocates Program. The free virtual training is open to people of all disabilities, no matter where you live.

Kamand Alaghehband: 0:35

Keep listening to hear how life's challenges can spark a desire to speak out and advocate for yourself and others.

MsBoye: 0:50

Hello, you're listening to the True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast. Changing the world one story at a time. This is the show where advocates harness the power of storytelling to build community with their peers and develop empathy in others. Hello everyone. I'm MsBoye.

Jennifer McKinney: 1:09

I'm Jennifer McKinney.

Adam Griebel: 1:11

I'm Adam Griebel.

MsBoye: 1:12

And we are your hosts for season three.

Jennifer McKinney: 1:22

Hi, my name is Jennifer McKinney and I'm a co-host of Season 3. While all jobs are important in a podcast team, it takes a unique and extremely hardworking person to keep the team going and on the right track. Last year, we lost that vital podcast member. Her name was MsBoye. She was more than a self-taught podcaster and editor. MsBoye wore many hats at Art Spark Texas and in the Austin community. She was a thespian, poet, had a great British sense of humor, and was an advocate for all. In 2024, she asked me to join the podcast production team as co-host. I feel fortunate to have been able to work with her on the True Tales by Disability Advocates podcast. In summary, MsBoye is gone, but not forgotten. In her honor, we are going to continue the podcast episodes with the same spirit and devotion as Ms Boye might say. The show must go on.

Celia Hughes: 2:35

So Adam. So Meg Barnett was one of she wasn't the original in the original company, but she came on pretty early on. This story was

Adam Griebel: 2:43

I remember her actually in the original show.

Celia Hughes: 2:45

I don't think she was in the very first show, but because this the Elvis Lives was in uh 2002, and our first show was in in 2000. So

Adam Griebel: 2:55

Didn't we start didn't we start in '98?

Celia Hughes: 2:59

No, we started in 2000. So talk to talk to us about your memories of Meg.

Adam Griebel: 3:04

I remember her. I don't know if this is because she was positioned this way, or if this is just a role she spent into. She put herself in a leadership role in the actual lives cast, I felt.

Celia Hughes: 3:17

And what did that look like when you say she's in a leadership role?

Adam Griebel: 3:20

Well, when when we did Crip Ward Tango, that was her piece.

Celia Hughes: 3:24

Right. And she wrote a couple of other pieces, didn't she? Do the Happy Haven when people were welcomed to the nursing home?

Adam Griebel: 3:32

Yeah, I believe so.

Celia Hughes: 3:33

Okay.

Adam Griebel: 3:34

She didn't like 'cause she was involved in the poetry slams and all that great stuff back then. Yeah. So she had the skills.

Celia Hughes: 3:44

Yeah, she was uh can you describe Meg a little bit, her personality?

Adam Griebel: 3:48

Well, I don't know that being lesbian can necessarily augment your personality, but maybe it gave her a persona. She was she was funky to say the least.

Celia Hughes: 4:00

Yeah, and she was she was a rather large woman.

Adam Griebel: 4:02

Okay, she was huge.

Celia Hughes: 4:04

But she she carried that off really, really well. I don't remember, I think from the moment she started working with us though, she was not walking very well.

Adam Griebel: 4:13

No. And I remember she eventually got that little Volkswagen. It was a a scooter and she used basically a Volkswagen, for lack of a better word.

Celia Hughes: 4:28

Yeah, she was she was uh she was quite a quite a character. So do you remember this Elvis Lives piece?

Adam Griebel: 4:35

Not so much.

Celia Hughes: 4:36

Um do you remember any pieces of hers?

Adam Griebel: 4:39

I remember Crip Ward Tango.

Celia Hughes: 4:41

Yeah, and what was it about Crip Ward Tango?

Adam Griebel: 4:44

It was patterned after um Chicago.

Celia Hughes: 4:48

Yeah, it was the the cell block tango.

Adam Griebel: 4:50

Yeah.

Celia Hughes: 4:50

Yeah.

Adam Griebel: 4:51

I can't watch that film these days without immediately remembering back to I'm trying to remember my piece. But I had a piece in there.

Celia Hughes: 5:02

Yeah, you were, you know, when you're when you can't think, no, if when you can't talk, people think well, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it the piece. Well, what do you remember about Crip Ward Tango? Where did we perform it?

Adam Griebel: 5:16

In the Kennedy Center.

Celia Hughes: 5:17

Was it at the Kennedy Center?

Adam Griebel: 5:19

Uh eventually. We had done it a couple of times.

Celia Hughes: 5:22

Yeah, but we didn't do it at the Kennedy Center. We did it at uh Avenue.

Adam Griebel: 5:26

K Street Theater.

Celia Hughes: 5:27

Yeah, K or H, one of the

Adam Griebel: 5:29

It was K Street Theater.

Celia Hughes: 5:30

One of the alphabets. And uh yeah, and so Terry Galloway rehearsed you for that.

Adam Griebel: 5:36

Yes.

Celia Hughes: 5:36

Can you talk about that rehearsal?

Adam Griebel: 5:38

Wow.

Celia Hughes: 5:41

Well, that's all you can say is wow?

Adam Griebel: 5:44

Well, I got to work in direct association with Terry Galloway.

Celia Hughes: 5:50

And what did she do? How did she direct you? Do you remember anything about that? You guys always look like you've come out of the war zone.

Adam Griebel: 5:57

Did she smoke? No, she never smoked that I know of. Maybe she smoked during this rehearsal. I have no idea. Because working with her was like working with Jerry Lewis.

Celia Hughes: 6:08

Well, yeah, well, I don't know if she'd appreciate hearing that.

Adam Griebel: 6:12

Hopefully we won't play it for her.

Celia Hughes: 6:14

So why why Jerry why do you say that?

Adam Griebel: 6:18

Because I remember she would stick her hair with that deputy do.

Celia Hughes: 6:27

And then she would but the the the she ran that rehearsal like a drill sergeant, didn't she?

Adam Griebel: 6:32

Yeah, she was no screwing around.

Celia Hughes: 6:34

Yeah, she was she was if you were gonna perform at the you know for as part of the it was the VSA International Festival, you were gonna, you all were gonna be fabulous. There was no doubt about that. All right, well, we're gonna read the Crip Ward Tango. Crip Ward Tango, written by Meg Barnett, uh Maggie Joe Child, to the tune of Cell Block Tango. So this piece had four uh ensemble players. We had Meg, Adam, Terry Steller, and Jeff Marsh. They enter, Meg says, What's up?

Adam Griebel: 7:14

Frankenstein

Celia Hughes: 7:16

Terry Steller, past life, Jeff Amnio. What's up?

Adam Griebel: 7:21

Frankenstein

Celia Hughes: 7:23

Past life, amnio. What's up?

Adam Griebel: 7:28

Frankenstein

Celia Hughes: 7:30

Past life, amnio, what's up?

Adam Griebel: 7:32

Frankenstein

Celia Hughes: 7:34

Past life, amnio, what's up?

Adam Griebel: 7:36

Frankenstein

Celia Hughes: 7:37

Past life, amnio. Meg, you know how people always ask you, how are you? How's it going? What's up? Sometimes it's just automatic. But most people do care to some extent. They keep track of your milestones. And the unspoken expectation is that if you are sick or hurting, or god forbid, disabled, you're going to get better soon. They turn off if you aren't better yet. They make suggestions for treatment, something somebody can do. So the next time they see you, your answer will be, I'm doing better. But what if that's never gonna be true? Are any of you ready to hear that reply? The chorus.

Adam Griebel: 8:30

I won't get better, I won't get better. This is the best I'll ever be. And when I'm older, yeah, when I'm older, then it may be even worse for me. People assume that if you can't talk, then you can't think. And that if you can't remember things fast, you must be stupid. They talk to you like you're two years old. And if you get frustrated, for God's sake, don't show it. Nothing scares people more than a dummy on the rampage. Can you say, Frankenstein?

Celia Hughes: 9:16

chorus.

Adam Griebel: 9:18

I'm not the R-word. I'm not the R-word, but that's an okay way to be. Why don't you listen? Shut up and listen, and find out what is the truth for me.

Celia Hughes: 9:32

Terry's Faith Healers. Now there's a freak show. We Cryps are supposed to be close to God, or at least to remind others of how God moves in mysterious ways. In the new agers, they think if you can just identify and clear out the blockages from childhood issues, or maybe it's a past life thing, the cancer will disintegrate. Your vision will return. They know somebody in Saucelito who regrew a crooked spine. Chorus.

Adam Griebel: 10:07

Mind over matter. Mind over matter. The only problem's in your head. Have you tried Jesus? Think of his suffering. Stop being hopeless. Get out of bed.

Celia Hughes: 10:20

Jeff, but the biggest tragedy of all, the worst thing that can happen to a family is when a child is born crippled, right? Was it bad genes? Was it bad choices? Is it a lesson sent from God? Why oh why would God let this happen to

Celia Hughes: 10:36

an innocent child? What kind of life can he expect to have? No wife, no children, that's for sure. Some of their friends will whisper, if they'd had amniocentesis, maybe they could have stopped the pregnancy in time. What do you say to things like that?

Adam Griebel: 10:58

I am not dead yet. I am not dead yet. My only obstacles are you. I have a body. I have a sex life. It's time to alter your point of view.

Celia Hughes: 11:11

What if I never heal?

Adam Griebel: 11:13

If you can't talk, you can't think.

Celia Hughes: 11:16

Have you tried Jesus? What kind of life?

Adam Griebel: 11:24

It's time to alter your point of view.

Celia Hughes: 11:31

So these these pieces, Crip Ward Tango and Elvis Lives, but more importantly, I think Crip Ward Tango were written twenty-one years ago, twenty-two years ago, quite a while ago. How has language in the disability community changed over those since that time?

Adam Griebel: 11:51

You know, I know that people are still using a bhorent language. I mean, people that aren't directly associated with the disability movement, aren't disabled, don't have family members that's disabled. I see those people as being oblivious to person-first language for lack of a better word.

Celia Hughes: 12:14

So you and I went through and when we were recording the Crip Ward Tango, we um purposefully re replaced a word in the song with that we replaced it with, you know, I'm not the R word.

Adam Griebel: 12:29

Sure.

Celia Hughes: 12:29

And so that's one thing that's happened in the past two decades is an awareness that's been really brought to the forefront by folks with intellectual disabilities about the use of the R word and how it is such a slur. Do you remember any kind of conversation that we had back when we were preparing Crip Ward Tango for performance? Did we have any conversation at that time? Again, we're look we're going back to two, you know, 2003 about the use of, you know, we we use the word the R word, we use the word Crip, we use the word cripple, we used all of that. What was the do you do you remember what the intention was behind that of our using those words?

Adam Griebel: 13:14

I felt like we used it because we felt like we were that pocket nation and we then gave us license to use that language. Now I don't know if if when putting it on we put a little byline, okay, uh you can hear this, but you can't say this.

Celia Hughes: 13:32

I don't think we did because back then, you know, we're we're talking uh a few decades ago. We were putting things on the stage that nobody put on the stage.

Adam Griebel: 13:42

I love that.

Celia Hughes: 13:43

And we were trying to get people to we were trying to shake people up a little bit.

Adam Griebel: 13:46

Wake up, wake the fuck up.

Celia Hughes: 13:49

Remember what what's going on here. Yeah, so I think you're exactly right when you say that we were, you know, at the forefront of the movement, which is now the folks with the in the movement there who have reclaimed the fact that they're disabled. So you talk about person first language, and now in the 21st century, we're talking about identity first language.

Adam Griebel: 14:15

Yeah, yeah, and then I didn't even think about that.

Celia Hughes: 14:18

And so what does identity first language mean to you, Adam?

Adam Griebel: 14:22

That we as as individuals have the right to identify ourselves whichever w whichever way we see fit.

Celia Hughes: 14:32

And we can reclaim words that have been over the generations come to be slurs and come to be really negative words, we can reclaim those words. I use we, even though I'm speaking about the larger disability community, can claim those words uh as their own and try to repurpose and remove the the stigma that has been associated with those words. But back in 2003, we were having those conversations about what these words meant.

Adam Griebel: 15:08

It's time for people to get comfortable.

Celia Hughes: 15:11

I remember that we had a we had a long conversation about that chorus. I don't remember what we actually said, but I remember there being discussion about that one chorus. Uh, you know, I'm not I'm not the R word, but that's an okay way to be.

Adam Griebel: 15:26

But we didn't we we we we didn't stammer, we just said

Celia Hughes: 15:30

Yeah, we we were we were out there well we also had the good cripple's oath, if you remember that, which we opened every show with, which I loved, for the same reason. Because it was just in your face. It w you know?

Adam Griebel: 15:45

You know, I think that that were were we ever to do this show again, I don't know.

Celia Hughes: 15:52

I don't think it would have the same impact if we did it now, because people are much more uh aware of language.

Adam Griebel: 15:59

Mhmm especially in our circles.

Celia Hughes: 16:02

Yeah, yeah. And but also young people of today they don't have a whole lot of tolerance for language that can be construed as uh demeaning or insulting or or hurtful. Yeah, absolutely. So I think I think actual lives was certainly certain.

Adam Griebel: 16:23

We We wanted to hurt people.

Celia Hughes: 16:24

Well, I don't think we wanted to hurt people.

Adam Griebel: 16:26

But we we didn't we we we we minced no words.

Celia Hughes: 16:30

Well, we minced we minced no words, but I we didn't want people we didn't want to hurt people, but if people were hurt by their own reactions to things, then we didn't take responsibility for that. We wanted people to to actually see disability on the stage and to to confront their own misconceptions and their own biases and their own prejudice in a way that was safe for them because they were in an audience and they could laugh and they could be shocked, but we weren't pointing the finger at them and saying,

Adam Griebel: 17:09

You're this.

Celia Hughes: 17:10

You're this. Yeah. We were like, here's us, and this is what we think. And if you can relate to this in some way, maybe you should go home and think about it.

Adam Griebel: 17:19

You can identify however you want to.

Celia Hughes: 17:21

Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And I think that's what what made the the Crip Ward Tango we when we performed it as part of the VSA International Festival. I remember people, there were some people in the audience, there were a lot of people with disabilities in the audience, and they just roared when w you sang the the lines, I am not dead yet. Because that was what that was really beginning, though that was the rallying cry at that time of people living in nursing homes was I am not dead yet, and they just roared when we started singing that. I remember that brought me to tears. Elvis Lives by Meg Barnett, Maggie Joe Child. Last year I flew on a plane for the first time since my knee replacement surgery. It was just a few months after 9-11, and I flew into a cold, gray, paranoid Logan Airport, the airport that launched United Flight 175 and American Flight 11. My flight also happened to be on the same day that a lunatic tried to set off explosives in his tennis shoes, and the plane made an emergency landing at Logan. I would have to be in a wheelchair because I can't walk that far, which meant like Blanche Dubois, relying on the kindness of strangers. Strangers wearing dark blue American Airlines blazers and stony faces. I kept telling everybody that I needed an extra wide wheelchair. Apparently Logan couldn't find such a thing. So I was crammed into what I think of as the California Surfer Girl model. My luck turned when a tall young man with a full beard stepped forward from the clutter of the blazers to be my official escort. Enter Ahmad. Ahmad was from Saudi Arabia, from a city that was home to two of the hijackers. His looks, his accent, his absolute being made all of the passengers in the airport freeze up around him. He was sick of it. And there I was, a huge crippled dike. If we were dumped out of a car into the town square of an average small white bird, I don't know which one of us would get stoned to death first. We bonded instantly. Turns out in his off hours, Ahmed entertains as an Elvis impersonator. I don't know how he gets around the obstacle of his beard, but he really has the dialogue down. My little brother Bill was also an Elvis impersonator, so Ahmed finds In me the perfect foil. I feed him a line like Mele Kalikimaka and he starts singing I'll be a boo Christmas without you. I ask him which part of Boston he lives in and he breaks into Since my baby left me I found a new place to dwell. It's down at the end of Lonely Street in Heartbreak Hotel. Ahmed as Elvis is charming and clearly disconcerting to his fellow American Airlines employees. He doesn't seem to give a rat's ass. He keeps trying to find ways for me to get through the long lines and bottlenecks faster. Even though the wheelchair I'm in is clearly their property, I have to get up and walk through the checkpoints while they remove this chair and replace it with another. Looking around at the humorless men in camouflage holding assault rifles, I tried to imagine what I could pull off in a wheelchair that would make anything as deadly as those automatic weapons. I'm not a Crip MacGyver. They stopped people randomly and asked them to remove their shoes for inspection. I didn't know about the sneaker bomber yet, so this strikes me and Ahmad as especially hilarious. I can get my shoes off by myself, but not back on. If they pick me, I figure Ahmad can use the occasion to kneel before me and do the proposal scene from Viva Las Vegas. My Latino friend Danny, who uses a wheelchair and had to fly somewhere this holiday season. When they searched his shoes, he said he felt honored that he could still be perceived as a possible terrorist, even though he was an obvious cripple. Then he added it was probably the spic factor that pushed him over the edge from pity into menace. I tell the guys running the metal detector that my left knee is titanium and that it absolutely will set off the alarm. Even so, when I emerge on the other side, every blue blazer in the vicinity is standing around me. Ahmed waves at me over the shoulder of one official. I empty all of my pockets, but I'm still setting off red rockets of alarms. Logan is running short on the little wands they use to wave over people's bodies. I have to be patted down by a security expert. Now here's the thing. I'm a lesbian Chandler Bing. I make jokes when I am nervous. So I had some tension to let off. I managed to keep it together until the skinny, white, straight girl security expert reaches a certain region that my mother refers to as Munchkinland. As in Did you wash good in Munchkinland? Which made watching the Wizard of Oz a truly bizarre experience as a child. But I digress. When her pale, well manicured hands began searching Munchkinland for box cutters or plastic explosives, I could not help myself. I said with complete tupelo charm, thank you. Thank you very much.

Adam Griebel: 23:16

My name is Adam. Adam Griebel. I am an actor with Art Spark Texas. And regretfully we lost Ms Boye Nagle earlier this year. I recall my association with her whenever I would come to the office here in Art Spark. She was here oftentimes on the on the patios having a cigarette. And we did a play called Waiting for the Bus by Mike Mike Burns.

Celia Hughes: 23:52

James Burnside.

Adam Griebel: 23:53

James Burnside, pardon me. Burns Burnside similar. And we worked together on that a good deal. She was very in integral in getting the actors together. And what was she's production manager?

Celia Hughes: 24:14

She was basically what you would call the company manager. She took care of all of the actors' needs and accessibility.

Adam Griebel: 24:22

And I had I had a part in the play. A little one. Okay, I was Dana the lead. Very exciting, very exciting indeed. I haven't had an experience like the one I was allowed to participate in ever. And it was exciting. Ms Boye. She was Dorthea Dix. One of the members of the script. And I worked with her. And I loved it. I loved every minute of it that she was there as well. Was bonus. But just me being in the play was great. And working with MsBoye was an added bonus.

Celia Hughes: 25:11

So the next person that we want to talk about, uh who we that that I miss a lot, uh is Mike Burns.

Adam Griebel: 25:19

Toast!

Celia Hughes: 25:22

So what do you remember about Mike Burns?

Adam Griebel: 25:25

I remember he drove and I was I I was pretty envious of that.

Celia Hughes: 25:30

Did you not drive?

Adam Griebel: 25:32

I I I I I did, but I think I drove and I didn't drive and I drove and I didn't drive. I shouldn't have been driving.

Celia Hughes: 25:41

You're not driving now, we'll say to the great the Well, you know, you had a number of accidents. Uh Mike never I don't think Mike never had an accident after his terrific accident that he had that gave him his uh his traumatic brain injury. Yeah. So what do you remember about Toast?

Adam Griebel: 26:00

I remember he was on airflight, an airplane, and I don't know if it was because his speech was hard to understand, but he couldn't get his order across to the stewardess for lack of a better word. And finally they were trying to figure out what he wanted, and he all ran into them toast. He wanted toast.

Celia Hughes: 26:26

Yeah, someone from the back of the plane shouted out, toast, he wants toast. Because he was trying to say toast. Yeah, that was at right after his traumatic brain injury when he was finally released from the hospital and he was flying to be with his father, I think, who was uh alive at the time. But yeah, Mike, you you talked about Mike driving. He had a truck. And you know, and so the the the worst thing about being a person that owns a truck is that all of your friends who don't own trucks always ask you for favors. And I my favor I had two favorite uh Mike Burns stories. One was I I wanted to get a couch, so I went to this place called Four Hands Home, which I think is still around, but it it got used furniture and it got a lot of furniture from uh developers who were buying furniture for demonstration homes and things like that in offices. And so it would get new furniture and it would get not not so new furniture. So there was a couch and it only had it was part of a sectional, so it only had an arm on one side of the couch and not on the other side of the couch. So I decided that that was the couch I was gonna have. So I could it was the only couch I could afford. And um, so I called up Mike and I asked him if he'd come come and help me bring the couch to my house. So ever, ever the gentleman, and always, you know, he was de he was the mild-mannered mop boy.

Adam Griebel: 28:02

Yeah.

Celia Hughes: 28:02

And um he shows up and we load this couch into his truck and and

Adam Griebel: 28:08

Wasn't a big truck.

Celia Hughes: 28:09

It wasn't a big truck, it was just a little Ford, I think, and it was but a little one. So all the way home I kept telling him that the cushions were gonna fly out of the back of the truck. I don't understand how trucks work. I don't understand how people just throw things into the back of their truck and they don't fly out. I don't understand that. But so all the way home I was like, the cushions are gonna fly out. And he's like, the cushions are not gonna fly out. So we get to the house and we get the couch in, and I look at it, and I'm like, Mike, one of the arms is missing, and he's looking at it, and I'm like, oh my god, Mike, it must have flown out of the bed. And for a moment there's a moment there, he was aghast because he thought that the arm had flown off the back. Oh, I loved him so much. He was so and then he then he wouldn't forgive me for a long time after that. But uh yeah, Mike was a he was a great guy. He was a really, really great guy. We we don't know where Mike is. Mike, if you're out there listening to us, please get in touch with us. We would love to hear from you again. Uh, we lost touch with him during COVID. So we're sending out good thoughts for you, Mike. But yeah, he was uh he was in one of the with you guys, he was one of the uh folks in the company that had uh traumatic brain injury. And what I learned about traumatic brain injury is that there no two people with traumatic brain injury are the same.

Adam Griebel: 29:47

So similar similar to individuals without.

Celia Hughes: 29:51

Right.

Adam Griebel: 29:51

Nobody's the same.

Celia Hughes: 29:52

Nobody's the same, yeah. And it depends on what part of the

Adam Griebel: 29:55

I mean there are characteristics that are similar.

Celia Hughes: 29:58

Well, yeah, there are characteristics. Uh like sometimes speech.

Adam Griebel: 30:02

Impulse.

Celia Hughes: 30:02

Yeah, impulse control. Yeah, exactly. Different things.

Adam Griebel: 30:06

Taking all your clothes off and around naked in in the back.

Celia Hughes: 30:09

Well, you haven't done that in a while, okay? But yeah, so did you and Mike um develop some any kind of a of a bond?

Adam Griebel: 30:20

I don't recall. I was busy bonding with Laura.

Celia Hughes: 30:24

I know, because you were our first uh you were our first uh marriage. We had several marriages. Yeah, but you guys knew each other before, but you didn't date or anything, right? Yeah.

Adam Griebel: 30:36

No, I uh I mean we were in high school together and I don't know if I

Celia Hughes: 30:42

probably didn't even pay attention to her.

Adam Griebel: 30:43

Little short arms. I don't know if I can hang with that back then.

Celia Hughes: 30:48

Yeah, you were you were a you were a young stud, right? You were

Adam Griebel: 30:51

I was a young stoner.

Celia Hughes: 30:53

You were a b yeah, yeah, you were Mr. Bongmaster. Yeah, well we have yeah, and that you're yours and uh Laura's episode is gonna be coming up, so so stay tuned for for Laura and Adam's.

Adam Griebel: 31:05

Now if you can get her.

Celia Hughes: 31:08

Oh, you we you recorded with with Kurt.

Adam Griebel: 31:11

Oh, so it's been done. Yeah.

Celia Hughes: 31:14

Yeah, see, this is the thing of brain injury. Adam doesn't remember that he recorded.

Adam Griebel: 31:21

I resemble that remark.

Celia Hughes: 31:23

He doesn't remember how he got here an hour ago.

Adam Griebel: 31:26

Is it like some idea?

Celia Hughes: 31:31

He uh well, what do you remember about the way Mike dressed?

Adam Griebel: 31:34

I don't. Was it like Mr. Green jeans?

Celia Hughes: 31:38

No, he had he always wore uh black and white check pajama pants.

Adam Griebel: 31:42

Oh yeah, I remember that exactly.

Celia Hughes: 31:44

And uh and a bright yellow Hawaiian shirt. And he wore those until they fell off. They literally fell apart.

Adam Griebel: 31:53

He would wash it every now and then.

Celia Hughes: 31:56

I would hope. I would hope he washed them. Yes, I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did. And he lived in his little trailer and he um

Adam Griebel: 32:03

Where was his trailer?

Celia Hughes: 32:04

He was out in a in a uh uh one of the parks out near the airport. It uh has uh sadly closed and become some sort of a development.

Adam Griebel: 32:14

Yeah. My dad lived ou t right across from the airport.

Celia Hughes: 32:17

Yeah. I think the favorite thing that Mike ever did was when we decided that we were gonna change the entrance to his mild-mannered mop boy, and we had him come out like he was doing a strip tease. Do you remember that?

Adam Griebel: 32:36

No, no. He would take off his

Celia Hughes: 32:39

No, he would come out and he would, I think he he would just come out and do uh well he had he would have his pants on, but he wouldn't have his shirt on.

Adam Griebel: 32:47

Yeah, I remember.

Celia Hughes: 32:47

And then he would wiggle his hips and dance around the stage, and uh, and then he would uh and then he would begin, I'm just a mild mannered mop boy. And it you know, his background uh to that, he uh he worked for a couple of different organizations uh as a janitor. And he actually, when he we hired him and he started working for us years ago, and he would come in and vacuum. So he was he uh then was elevated to vacuum man. So and that's what that was his identity, and uh he was proud of it, and he really maintained his vacuum very well.

Adam Griebel: 33:28

I I did some janitorial work and I wonder if that is stereotypical of brain injured people.

Celia Hughes: 33:35

Well, it could be, it could be.

Adam Griebel: 33:37

I sucked.

Celia Hughes: 33:38

Well, you you couldn't keep the plants alive if I recall.

Adam Griebel: 33:42

Nah, I I remember I was uh I was a janitor from Ru Maya when they were down on Forth and Colorado.

Celia Hughes: 33:50

Okay.

Adam Griebel: 33:50

And we w we had a freezer in the back and we would make these. Oh, we had a big tub of of Amy's chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream or something with a little specs of cookies or whatever it was. And um it was back there. And I would would go back and take a little bite, take an and before I knew it the whole thing was gone.

Celia Hughes: 34:18

Oh dear.

Adam Griebel: 34:19

And then my boss got got got mad.

Celia Hughes: 34:24

Well you so you didn't lose your job because you weren't good at the mop. You were

Adam Griebel: 34:28

Because I ate all the ice cream

Celia Hughes: 34:28

your your impulse control was not not not doing very well back then. Well, you know, the thing about about Mike is that he was loyal, loyal, loyal to actual lives. But always about a week before the show, he would want to quit. He would get upset with somebody or he would you know and I

Adam Griebel: 34:53

Sandy Massey.

Celia Hughes: 34:55

It was well, there was that, but there was also just he would just get upset and it was nerves. It was always nerves, you know. And then we would uh we would convince him that he that he was uh important to the show.

Adam Griebel: 35:07

Worthy

Celia Hughes: 35:08

and he would show up Mike Burns Mop Boy Life is a real roller coaster. Some days I'm an artist and performer, other days I'm the mop boy. As a young man, I had a serious car accident. I was in a coma for a month and a half. Upon awakening, I could do nothing. Thirty years later, I walk, I talk, I paint, I mop. I graduated from UT with a BA in psychology. I worked there for 17 years and had to retire because of brain complications. I took up painting and performing. June of 2004, I went with the actual lives to Washington, DC to perform at the VSA Arts International Festival. We really rocked that crowd. When I got back home, I went back to my job as a mop boy. In July of 2004, I went with Imagine Arts to New Orleans for an art show. I sold three of my paintings right off the bat. We had a great time on Bourbon Street, dancing to the music and the gumbo. When I got back home, I resumed the mild mannered mop boy. On february ninth, two thousand five, my birthday, I was performing in front of eight hundred people, cooking on all cylinders. A fifty-four year old man brain injured, wearing these same clothes, dancing to striptease music, just bringing down the house. The next day, I'm cleaning bathrooms, emptying trash, and of course, mopping. Back at the shack, a self-help advocacy center. In October of 2005, the city of Austin chose one of my paintings to publish in a tourism book. Now there's 10,000 copies of my man with a pipe. I'm kind of famous, but I'm still a mop boy. Life's a real roller coaster. And I'm on it. And God says, hang on. So that was that was Mike, you know?

Adam Griebel: 37:14

I remember I remember that that that panting.

Celia Hughes: 37:17

Yeah. Can you describe the painting? Do you remember what it looks like?

Adam Griebel: 37:21

There's orange. Orange pants, orange shirt. I don't recall that.

Celia Hughes: 37:25

Okay. Well, I remember blue. I remember it being a blue sailor with a with a pipe, a white pipe.

Adam Griebel: 37:32

He did a couple of different pantings, I remember.

Celia Hughes: 37:36

Yeah, he did a yeah. Well, I I have two of them at home. One he gave me, one I got for him in his classic black and white check pants and yellow Hawaiian shirt, riding on an old broken down mule, and the sign says retirement this way. So I've got that. And then I've got one of him sitting a self-portrait of him sitting outside this trailer uh in his classic clothes, uh, surrounded by uh potted plants, flowers. And I I that's a nice picture I remember of him. He was he was a good addition to the to the company.

Adam Griebel: 38:19

Yeah.

Celia Hughes: 38:20

So yeah, so we've been talking this episode about both Meg Barnett and Mike Burns and their important addition to the era, the epic decade of actual lives. Yeah, and how how I'm not so sure. I mean, I think we could do an actual lives again, um, but it would it would be different.

Adam Griebel: 38:44

I'm not talking about I I'm just talking about the script. And yeah, disabled actors would would be uh especially with this organization, would be integral.

Celia Hughes: 38:56

Right. Well, you I mean everyone on the stage had a disability for actual lives. And if they didn't, they were a caregiver. I mean, I when I was going through reading the scripts, trying to find the stories we wanted to highlight, I actually found a couple of scripts that I was in. Because I remember our rule is you couldn't be in the room. If you were in the room, you had to participate. Nobody was an observer. And and I like that rule, and I try to keep that rule uh going when there are other things because people with disabilities are always being observed. There was always somebody behind the mirror watching what they were doing, or on the other side of the glass watching what they were doing, or observing how you were walking, or observing how you're talking. And and that was part of the the the ethos of actual lives is you want to look at us? Okay, here we are. We're on stage, look at us all you want. But you all have yes, you have to hear what we have to say about it too.

Adam Griebel: 39:56

We're gonna say it loudly.

Celia Hughes: 39:58

Yep, absolutely. Well, thanks, Adam. Thanks for uh talking with me about Meg and and Mike.

Adam Griebel: 40:05

Thank you for allowing me to.

John Beer: 40:10

We here at the True Tales podcast suffered a massive blow when we lost MsBoye Nagel after a sudden illness at the end of 2024. As our den mother, cheerleader, taskmaster, coraller of cats, Buddha, mentor, and most of all, friend, she somehow shepherded us through Art Spark Texas' Speaking Advocates program, teaching us to write and tell our stories in the most effective, forceful way, and guided us again through the creation of this podcast so that we could amplify our stories even more in this blossoming medium. On her own, she was a powerful, prolific poet with a strong and awful, playful voice, and a proud longtime advocate for LGBTQ+ rights, a woman of conviction. In other words, she was qualified all day long to teach speaking advocacy and wear the many hats she did to bring this podcast into being. She was our executive producer, but was involved in all aspects. Episode producer, writer, talent, editor, and promoter. MsB oye was also an actress and would insist the show must go on. And after a hiatus, we're doing just that. Ever since we've started in, most of our efforts have been spent figuring out what MsBoye did and how to recreate it. Above all, we want to continue her level of passion for the podcast, for getting these stories out there to you. This is how we'll open minds and produce the change that we want. When we'd meet for speaking advocates early afternoons on Saturdays to help us clear our minds before each session, MsBoye would ring a bell. I'm a quadriplegic, and sometimes my morning routines run long, so that I didn't get a chance to eat. And to my ear, her bell sounded just like the one from the Taco Bell commercials. While everyone else began deep breathing, I'd have visions of burritos dancing in my head. Of course, now when I hear that bell on my TV, I think of those early afternoons I got to spend with my friend, whom I missed so much. And how she made us feel. We had stories worth telling and shouting out loud. And a Largel Fresco bean burrito with Diablo Sauz. We got you, Ms Boye.

MsBoye: 42:32

Thank you for listening to the third season of True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, oh, please share it with your friends and talk about us on social media. If you're feeling particularly adventurous, consider leaving us a review on Facebook or even on your favorite podcast platform. And of course, don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Goodbye, everybody, and have a wonderful day.

Kamand Alaghehband: 42:59

All episodes of the True Tales by Disability Advocates podcasts are free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere you get your podcasts

John Beer: 43:28

Program is funded in part by a grant from the Texas State Independent Living Council, The Administration for Community Living, and individuals like you.

Kristen Gooch: 43:29

To learn more about the speaking advocates program sign up for our newsletter at artsparktx.org That's A R T S P A R K T X dot O R G.