12 Days of Giving Day 11: The Life-Changing Power of Shutting Up and Actually Listening

Ever feel like everyone's talking, but no one's really listening? In Day 11 of our "12 Days of Giving" series, we sit down with Matt Halloran, a former therapist turned financial services marketing expert who conducted over 3,000 interviews and discovered a game-changing truth: the power of authentic listening.

From his early days as a 13-year-old radio host to becoming a therapist and eventually revolutionizing how financial advisors connect with clients, Matt shares the surprising secret that transformed his practice – and it's not what you think. His journey led to writing "Shut the F Up and Listen" (available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DPJ88545), a brutally honest guide that's changing how professionals build lasting relationships.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• Why traditional "active listening" might actually be hurting your relationships
• The counterintuitive 5-second rule that deepens every conversation
• How listening transformed a 90-minute client meeting into something unexpectedly beautiful
• The simple technique that helped an advisor close more business by saying less

Whether you're a financial advisor looking to deepen client relationships or someone seeking to forge stronger personal connections, this episode offers practical tools you can use immediately. Visit https://proudmouth.com/ to learn more about Matt's work in transforming financial service professionals into influential voices in their communities.

As always we ask you to comment, DM, whatever it takes to have a conversation to help you take the next step in your journey, reach out on any platform!

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DISCLOSURE: Awards and rankings by third parties are not indicative of future performance or client investment success. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investment strategies carry profit/loss potential and cannot eliminate investment risks. Information discussed may not reflect current positions/recommendations. While believed accurate, Black Mammoth does not guarantee information accuracy. This broadcast is not a solicitation for securities transactions or personalized investment advice. Tax/estate planning information is general - consult professionals for specific situations. Full disclosures at www.blackmammoth.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 The Importance of Listening in Financial Conversations
• 3:06 Transforming Relationships Through Active Listening
• 5:57 The Art of Listening to Understand
• 9:12 Listening as a Tool for Business Success
• 12:09 The Five Second Rule: Enhancing Listening Skills
• 15:07 Valuing Human Connection in Financial Advisory
• 17:52 Practical Steps to Improve Listening Skills

Transcript

Stoy Hall, CFP® (00:00.749)
Another day during the holidays, another 12 days of giving series episode. And today we have Matt Holleran on and he's very unique for all of us. One, he's a badass in our financial industry because he's pushing everyone to do podcasts. He's a good friend and I connect with him on levels. I didn't think so. And we've only literally met in person once, which is phenomenal. And as we're going through the series, like everyone and everyone who's on here, we're going to pick this and talk about something. So when you're listening, you go,

shit, that's me in my situation. Or I know someone in that situation. And here's a tool or an idea to get them to take that next step in life in finances. Taking that next step is the most important thing to do because you have to keep going to be successful to reach your goals. have to just keep going. And so without further ado, we're going to talk about Matt and specifically his book and how it's going to help others by shutting that up and just listening. So

Why don't we dive into that map?

.. (01:02.092)
Yeah, so what I found, so I've done about 3,000 interviews. So, yeah, yeah, I know. So I started doing radio when I was 13 years old, and then I became a news director in college, where that's really where my interview journey started. And then I was a therapist. so interviewing people is pretty much, and I was a coach, a life coach, and most of what you do in those situations is interview. And I remember one of my first,

Stoy Hall, CFP® (01:08.126)
that's it. Just 3000.

.. (01:30.46)
epiphanies about listening was I was on a call, it was a 50 minute call, and I think, Stoy, I said three things. The whole time. This person just blah, you bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, And we get close to the end of the call, and you know, I like to make sure I'm doing a good job, and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, dude, I didn't say anything at all. And I said,

how did you think today's call went? Those like the standard close of all of my coaching calls. And he's like, Matt, this was one of the best calls I've ever had. And I was like, what just happened? So I listened, this is the foundation of the book. It's the foundation of who I am as a human being. Everybody is like screaming into the void, expecting people to listen, but nobody's listening to just listen. Everybody's listening to respond. And the other thing that everybody does with listening,

is they think active listening is the key to great listening. And it's really a very, very small part. In fact, active listening is an incredibly selfish act in my opinion. So what I ended up doing is I expanded what I've learned into seven different types of listening. But yeah, it's just one of those things, man, where everybody wants to be heard, but it's a principle of reciprocity. You need to listen before people will listen to you.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (02:50.325)
And on the big topic of listening, how does that or how have you seen that affect people, both business owners, advisors and individuals since you have that experience, when they've transitioned to, hey, you know what, I'm going to actually listen, and I'm going to be a part of this.

.. (03:06.316)
Well, the unintended consequence, honestly, well, there's two, right? So I'll do a personal one and I'll do a business one because I want to make people understand that this isn't just, this isn't woo, right? This isn't just, you there's like practical applications to what I'm talking about. So personally, it changes the relationship. So Stoy, let's talk about the first time you and I met. It's actually on a podcast. We wasn't even in person and I interviewed you.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (03:33.147)
Correct. Yep.

.. (03:34.808)
And after interviewing, when we saw each other in person, our relationship was totally different. And that's, by the way, one of the types of listening is actually, I call it listening to amplify others, right? And so I interviewed you that changed our relationship, fundamentally changed it for, I've known you for years now, right? And it really fundamentally changed that. So I really do believe that when you listen to actually listen and wait to see what you need to respond to changes the entire thing.

But listen, let's go professional here, man. I close more business by not saying anything at all. I basically let my prospects sell themselves. Now, I'm not just not saying anything. I want to be very, very clear because there's other things. Like one of the chapters in the book is listening to persuade, right? There are absolutely ways so that you can listen.

to drive people, I was a therapist, to drive people to the self-realization that they need to change or that they need to take action. But it's very, very passive. We're in financial services and I don't know if you ever read Chet Holmes, The Ultimate Sales Machine or any of the Zig Ziglar sales books or even, this goes back way before I started, The Cold Call Cowboy.

Right. And I remember when I first met my first insurance agent when I was a consultant and he said, Matt, you never ask a question to anybody you don't already know the answer to. And I was like, how boring is that, man? Like, I want to ask a question that's so open ended that they go, I don't really even know how to answer that. Like, yeah, all right. Now we're going somewhere. Right. But listen, listening is the key to closing more business, to winning more business, to deepening relationships, not only personally, but also professionally.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (05:04.981)
you

Stoy Hall, CFP® (05:23.797)
But before we listen, don't you have to care? Right? Like you can't just say I'm gonna listen. There has to be some part of you that's like, I truly care, or I'm going to care for this person, and listen enough to get somewhere. Now, obviously, in our services, that's what we do. But even in your real, you know, in real life in the real world, that I want everyone to take from is like, you also need to listen there and you have to care. So how do you help, I guess, help think through or help people think through how to just care about people?

.. (05:54.636)
Well, going back to how you were raised on that, my friend. So I'm going to quote a television show here. And I'm going to quote Ted Lasso. There's a great scene where he's the bad guy in the thing is this guy named Rupert. And they're playing darts for a kind of a pretty big bat. Right. And what Ted ends up saying is, you know, the people always underestimate him his whole life because.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (05:57.786)
Ha ha.

.. (06:20.374)
they weren't curious, they were judgmental. And I really do think that that foundation, that world perspective, when I ask somebody a question, and it could just be that I'm weird, and I lean into that, I'm okay with that, I actually wanna know the answer. I'm not asking you that question so you'll ask me that question, because a lot of times I don't wanna answer the question, right?

It's always amazing to me that after I listen to somebody for an extended period of time, whether it's through multiple phone calls or being in person, that one of the things that they'll say to me is, man, I feel like I know you. I didn't say anything about myself, right? But it's just that intention. And I do believe that you have to have an intention going into listening. In fact, that's the opening of the book.

is you have to have the right mindset. Because these seven different types of listening are all focused on making sure you're going in with focus. A lot of people will go in and they'll be like, from a sales perspective, well, I'm just gonna close business. Well, I'll smell, you do too, my friend. I smell that a mile away. I know what you're doing and I don't wanna do that. But if I go in because I'm genuinely curious, like here's another very quick example. I'm not gonna give you too many, because this is a tight podcast, but.

I'll, my wife and I'll go shopping, okay? And we'll get to the cash register and if I feel since at all that that cash register's having a rough day, I'll ask them the question. How are you doing? And again, just how I asked that question, I didn't say, hey, how are you? I said, how are you doing? That minor voice inflection changed. They turn and look at me.

and they will answer the question. And the worst thing, it drives my wife crazy. Cause she's like, I just want to get out of the store. Right? But, but Matt's, my radar went on, right? And so, and I'll listen. Like I've stood in line five, 10 minutes, you know, and they're like, my God. And then it was, my God, can't believe, you know, I'm so sorry. I taken up snow. Listen, I'm still, I'm still here because you needed that. And that's just a gift, right? Listening is a gift and it's so easy to do.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (08:11.739)
you

.. (08:34.668)
because it doesn't really take a lot of effort. It takes self-control, but it doesn't take a lot of effort because it's very passive.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (08:42.117)
super passive, but I think one of the most fulfilling things possible, I really do. And it's the deepest connection that you can eventually get with somebody right, like the example you did with us, for our business owners out there and advisors out there. And I don't I'm speaking from my experience, what I see in the world, I'm seeing in a world where we're getting a lot away from that, that's the old school sales tactics. And we are getting to a world where we really just care about humans, right, community and

all of those feelings. Are you seeing that? And how much of that do you think is from people listening or just we're all fed up with it?

.. (09:21.336)
a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. So I really, really think that people are just so tired of, we're tired of being sold to, so therefore we don't want to continue that in our business relationships. But I also think the advent of real financial planning that has become much more ubiquitous in financial services has made a world of difference because you can't be a good financial planner, man, unless you listen, right? But I definitely think that it does take

practice. I think it takes patience. But one of the things that I think is really funny is the controlling of the conversation, which I think a lot of us still feel like we, my God, I've got to talk about this. I've got to talk about this. I've got to talk about this. If you don't talk about it, those things naturally come up. So I was working with an advisor a little while ago using some of the techniques that are in my book. And it was actually from a podcasting perspective, then

Surprisingly enough, he brought this into his client meetings and he said after we went through the training, he was like, my client meetings are shorter. It's like, yeah, because you're not talking so much. And he said, meetings were 90 minutes. I was like, okay, well, there are lot of advisors who have 90 minute meetings, Portfolio reviews and market performance and asset, okay, all of the things that you want to talk about. He's like, Matt, I didn't really talk about any of that stuff. I was like, what did you talk about? He's like, well, I didn't really say very much.

I asked, how are you feeling about retirement? And then he just stopped talking. And he's like, Matt, they said the most beautiful things and all I did was write some stuff down and I smiled, which is non-verbals is a huge component of listening, not the active listening component, but there's some other things that you can do. he's like, and when they got done, I did what you told me to do, which was how did you feel this meeting went? And they're like, this was one of the best meetings we've had. I cannot stress enough.

If there's any holiday gift that you can give yourself, your friends, your family, your business, your coworkers, your employees, your clients, you give them the gift of that time of letting them talk to you without you wanting to talk back. And that's the core of real listening.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (11:37.659)
Yeah, but man, I'm not a therapist. That's therapy, right? Like, I'm just a listener.

.. (11:40.664)
No, it's not therapy, because I'm not solving any of your problems. No, I'm challenging you there. Let's go. Come on. I'll do get out with you. Listen, I, and this, is the big difference between, so if you do bring something to me and it happens to be something that you need to deal with in your past, listen, I'm a, I actually have my master's degree as a therapist. I still don't do that. Like I'm like, wow. Okay. That's, that's something I've said this all the time. That's something you should probably get more help on than I'm willing to do or that I'm qualified to do. don't say I'm qualified to do.

But that also shows you how bad a lot of therapists are because a lot of them are just sitting around, they're not doing anything, right? That's not what talk therapy is supposed to be. Talk therapy is supposed to be you present a problem, that problem has an action plan to be able to create a solution. Now, here's one of the things that you do have to be prepared for when it comes to listening is emotions become very transparent because people keep chasing the rabbit. In fact, there's a little bit in the book that I learned from a guy named George Kinder, who's actually a follower of holistic financial planning.

And he calls it the five second rule. call it the dramatic pause, which is when somebody gets done talking, you actually slowly count to five before you say anything. This is one of the greatest tips that anybody, sales, remember, I don't know if you remember in sales training, but you're the first person who talks loses. This is the five second rule, so why it works so well. And what happens is when you give somebody that space to process what they just said and then figure out where they want to go from there and you just give them that space.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (12:57.284)
Yep.

.. (13:07.658)
where they end up going can be unbelievably beautiful. And you might start here, Stoi, and you might end up in Timbuktu, right? Because that's where they needed to go. I want people to be given the gift to say the things that they need to say in order for them to feel better and live a better life.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (13:29.497)
honestly with my clients, that's majority of what we deal with. Like it's not the X's and O's and the ones and twos and the numbers. It really isn't those things are there because we need to get them done. But we meet monthly is what we try to do at Black Mammoth. And a lot of it is just checking in, hey, how are you doing? Or we have slack and text all the time. And they're always able to say, Hey, you know, this happens, you know, my kids sick, and we just talk through things. I'm not a therapist, and I don't ever want to go down that route. But I'm a human

And guess what humans are able to do we're able to connect to each other and have conversations that doesn't take a license or a degree. I'm just here to listen. And maybe if it needs to be pointed in a direction because they're spiraling cool, I can do that. Right outside of that it's not in our industry and I know I'm going a little off kilter with this one. But you being what would be a prospective client.

.. (14:23.128)
you

Stoy Hall, CFP® (14:23.631)
How do you perceive that as value, right? Because in our industry, it's always about money and how much it costs and all those things. I think the hardest thing we do when we're building, and this is part of the modern family office for me, when we're building this is showing and providing that value where you really don't get to do it until you feel it you don't feel it until you're in it. So as a prospective client, how do you see that perceived as value and how would you want to be receptive in seeing that?

.. (14:51.052)
Well, first off, you're taking an enormous amount of boxes that I think modern financial advisors, good financial advisors are doing. So what used to happen is I would meet with my advisor annually, right? And it was really them just talking at me about crap that I really don't care about, to be honest. That's really your job. I just don't whatever, man. I look great. I'm so glad that you move from this to this and this percentage. I don't care. That's your job.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (15:07.044)
You

.. (15:20.78)
Why don't you talk to me about why I'm doing this, why I'm working so hard, or more importantly, what's incredibly valuable. And so, listen, I know you do this, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to highlight that, because I do know you well enough and understand your practice to know that that's the black man with difference. Right? I mean, it really, really is. You're doing something that I think is going to become much more prevalent in financial services, but it's not going to be until the existing older generation of financial advisors are just gone.

Right. The younger financial advisors, really Gen X advisors and lower are really embracing this philosophy. You know, and I always joke with my advisor that I'm his worst client. Right. Because all my money is tied up in my business. Right. I'm constantly reinvesting in the business. I probably work more than I should. But the cool thing about him is he's he knows my why. Why am I doing this? Right. Because here's the number one thing. And I know this is not great thing for me to do.

but I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to bet on myself. And real entrepreneurs who live and breathe and eat this, this is, you that journey is so important to them. He understands that and supports that.

because of that, he's super smart and I've really great disability insurance. I've got a really great life insurance. I've got some other things like that that are out there, but he has a subscription model, right? That's the other thing, right? So I don't have to have $8 million of investable assets in order to work with him. I am working with him at the level that I need at this point in my life so that when I do sell my business for the amount of money that I want to sell it for, I'm going to be his best client.

And he knows that, and I appreciate that flexibility. And I know a lot of you are working towards that model specifically because it allows you to help more people.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (17:10.711)
Absolutely. Absolutely. So one, I always ask one question towards the of episodes, specifically for this series. And I'll ask that after this next question is, when's the book come out? How do people get to it? Because that's a big portion of what we talked about. And nope, not all the podcasts are about selling my friends books. But this one is going to be about listening. And I love the title. But how do we get to it? How is that available?

.. (17:33.484)
Thanks, Ben. Yeah, I mean, you can go to matthalloran.com, right? So that's gonna be the best place for you to go because then I don't have to give a bunch of money to Jeff Bezos. But if you're a huge fan of Amazon, it'll be on Amazon. The book is called Shut the F Up and Listen. And that's the best place for you to find it. And thank you for allowing me to say that. I greatly appreciate that.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (17:52.975)
Yeah, no problem. All right. So the question we end up with every episode is everyone listened hopefully to this episode, right? No pun intended or sideways pun intended. What is one actionable step item idea that they can take from listening to today and implement to get them in their next step in their journey.

.. (18:14.09)
You have to practice listening. You have to. This is a skill that can be honed over time. And the five second rule slash dramatic pause that I just told you about is what you should do over the holidays. So when you're sitting down and you're at the table, you need to ask an open ended question, right? Now, it's really wonderful to do this around Thanksgiving because it's all about thanks, but great being grateful is also great around the Christmas holiday season. Ask people what they're grateful for.

and then shut up. When they get done with that first tirade, because this always happens, it's usually about three minutes, just so everybody knows. That's generally how long people will answer a question. Sometimes it's shorter, very few times is it longer. But after they get done, what you're going to do is you're going to maintain some semblance of eye contact. You're going to take a deep breath through your nose and out your mouth, not like you don't want to freak them out. But you're going to take a nice gentle breath in through your nose and out through your mouth. You're going to try to recenter yourself. Then you're going to wait.

And when you wait, what you'll notice is happening is socially, we fill the space. But I'm not gonna be filling the space. The person you ask the question is gonna be filling that space. And because of that, you're gonna end up having real conversations with people by just implementing that one skill. Now, I've got seven of them. I have practices in the book. But it's the open-ended question. What are you grateful for? Or even better,

Tell me about, and actually you and I talked about this with the show, because I know you ask a lot of people about their first money memory, right? Which by the way, you really want to open a can of worms, that's a question. Tell me your first memory of money. But if you can say, tell me a story about what you're grateful for. I mean, you can use that anywhere all the time. Bam, bam, bam, doesn't have to be holiday season. Hey, I want to get to know you a little bit better. me a story of...

why you're grateful for what you're grateful for. When you tell somebody tell me a story.

.. (20:19.906)
They're gonna tell you story and it's just beautiful.

Stoy Hall, CFP® (20:23.491)
And it's gonna drive the connection even deeper, ultimately, because you're being real. You're being real. As always, everyone, please like comment, share and all that and not because of the stupid algorithm. That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking because Matt, all of our colleagues are here for you, we want to communicate with you. And the only way we can help you is if you reach out, whether that's DMing us emailing us contacting us, hell just commenting, we're going to be there and we're going to be there to answer these questions for you. So

Matt, I appreciate everything that you do for our industry, for me, and everyone, the likes. Can't wait to get the book, can't wait to see what that does for people. Outside of that, everyone have a happy holidays and stay tuned for the next episode.