Ep. 130 - The Art of Money Healing: Why Financial Therapy Matters

 Money doesn't have to be cold, rigid, and intimidating. In this bold, thought-provoking episode, I sit down with financial therapist Rachel Duncan who's revolutionizing how we heal our relationship with cash through art and creativity. Ever felt like the financial industry left you behind? You're not alone. 

Rachel reveals how her background as both a numbers person AND an artist led her to create a unique approach to financial therapy that actually works for creative, neurodivergent people. You'll discover why "abundance" might be the most meaningless buzzword in finance, how credit card points are a dangerous trap, and a powerful journaling exercise that will transform your relationship with money TODAY. 

This isn't your boring financial advisor's podcast – this is real talk about the emotional side of money that the industry doesn't want you to hear. 

Welcome to the No BS Wealth Podcast with Stoy Hall, your candid guide to financial clarity. In our third year, we're spicing things up by enhancing community ties and bringing you straight, no-fluff financial insights. Connect with us on NoBSWealthPodcast.com, and follow Stoy on social media for the latest episodes and expert discussions. Tune in, join the conversation, and transform your financial journey with us—no BS!

As always we ask you to comment, DM, whatever it takes to have a conversation to help you take the next step in your journey, reach out on any platform!

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DISCLOSURE: Awards and rankings by third parties are not indicative of future performance or client investment success. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investment strategies carry profit/loss potential and cannot eliminate investment risks. Information discussed may not reflect current positions/recommendations. While believed accurate, Black Mammoth does not guarantee information accuracy. This broadcast is not a solicitation for securities transactions or personalized investment advice. Tax/estate planning information is general - consult professionals for specific situations. Full disclosures at www.blackmammoth.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Why We Keep Bringing on Therapists (and You Should Care)
• 2:12 Meet Rachel Duncan & the Birth of the Money Healing Club
• 5:02 The Art of Emotional Healing Through Money
• 6:42 Why Traditional Finance Leaves People Out (Especially Women & POC)
• 8:57 The Real Problem with "Abundance Mindset" BS
• 11:12 Why You Probably Hate Talking About Money—and How to Fix That
• 14:12 Truth Bomb: The Wealthy Have MORE Money Stress
• 16:22 Lifestyle Inflation is Killing Your Financial Freedom
• 18:42 Fund Money: The Budgeting Trick You Need
• 20:12 How to Hack Impulse Spending Without Shame
• 23:42 Budget Flexibility Greater Than Budget Rigidity
• 25:12 Credit Card Points Are a Scam (Unless You're Doing THIS)
• 27:12 Rachel’s First Money Memory & Financial Parenting Lessons
• 30:12 Write a Letter to Money: A Game-Changing Healing Exercise
• 32:12 Final Thoughts on Entrepreneurship, Emotional Wealth, and Why We’re Done Playing the Old Money Game

Transcript

Stoy: 1:12

I know, I know. Bringing on another therapist, I know, I know people. We talk about it all the time. The mindset, the money, the budget, et cetera. First of all, the ones I bring on like Ashley Quantum are amazing. So is Rachel Duncan. She's gonna have a different spin, a little bit of art. How does art heal us? That's what we're gonna go through today and. What hills she likes to die on. So without further ado, Rachel, welcome to the show and why don't you download us with one, how you got to where you're at, but also what the Money Healing Club Podcast is about and where you see that going here in the future.

Rachel Duncan: 1:47

Thanks so much for having Mesto and. I gotta say, we could all use more therapists in our lives, so, um, I, I hope I don't, uh, tip the skills too much, but thank you. So, yes, I am a financial therapist and art therapist, and I co-founded the Money Healing Club, which is@moneyhealingclub.com. And it's a, it's a. Group membership where I teach both the nuts and bolts of personal finance to folks who've been really avoiding it, as well as get into sort of using our emotions, working with our emotions to get better with money instead of compartmentalizing them or shoving them down. And one of the ways I do that is through creative exercises. So first it seems like what do art and money have to do with each other? Like, it seems like nothing but the way I do it, we can really explore the, um, sort of felt experience of money because. Money just is emotional. It's actually the first line on my website. It just is emotional. So let's work with it instead of, uh, pushing it down.

Stoy: 2:41

What got you into that game? Like what, I know you weren't a little kid going, you know, a financial therapist is the way to go. Right. Although it's never a thing for us back then either. So how did you get into this world?

Rachel Duncan: 2:52

Oh, well, it's, it's the tale of two passions. Um, I always loved like counting my pennies and getting odd jobs, and there was a joke in my family that, you know, at age 11 I had more of my savings account than most members of my family. Like, I just really liked watching my money grow. I liked working. Um, I really liked. You know, like, uh, making the roles of coins to take into the bank account, memorizing my bank account number. I just was interested in all that stuff. However, I also was always super into the arts, music, visual art, all of that. So I had like, I was one of those like well-rounded kids. I sort of was, was good at many things. It was really hard for me to pick actually anything. So it's like in science, I was super into math and science and then, or sorry, in high school I was really into math and science. And then in college I actually majored in religion'cause I was kind of going through a spiritual thing. So, you know, it's just sort of been all of these things I've been like a bookkeeper and then an art teacher and a preschool teacher. And then I went to grad school and therapy. So, or in art therapy specifically, but I'm. I dunno. I was just always that, that weirdo, that weirdo artist who was like really comfortable with money and like understood insurance and like I did a lot of HR work. Like I understand, like I can, I can write in legalese very easily and then switch into like poetry. So in a lot of ways it kind of tormented me. Because I real like what? What's the thing? It would actually be easier if there was just like one thing, but I sort of loved all of it. And in the pandemic I had to close my private practice in art therapy and there had been a couple of high profile articles about financial therapy. I think it was in the New York Times and NPR maybe. And so some friends forwarded said to me, like, two friends sent me the same article, like I think this is you. So this is like kind of deep into 2020. And I was like, what? I didn't know I'd be allowed to do that.'cause I was always the weird therapist who like, enjoyed talking about billing rates and insurance reimbursement and career counseling and stuff like that. Um, but I was pretty much dissuaded, you know, from that there was like no pathway. So when I heard that financial therapy was a thing, I was like, maybe I don't have to juggle all of this or choose nothing. You know, maybe I could actually combine it. So I got trained up. It was super easy. It was like, well, this is obviously it. And ever since I said I'm a financial therapist, everything has clicked together and I don't feel like. I feel like I am in a niche instead of being all spread out. So, kind of a long answer, uh, to your question, but, um, bringing in like the financial sort of coaching part came really easily to me'cause it's like what I've been doing personally and my personal finance. Um, but then like, oh wow, how can I bring in my therapy and my art therapy training into the topic of money? And it's been such an exciting and creative and very healing experience for both me and my clients.

Stoy: 5:32

It's amazing and I, I love your one, your passion. Honestly, I'm a money guy. I love money. People have passion about money, but more along the lines of using like what you know, your experience, what you're comfortable with, who you are. Yeah. To help teach others. And I really truly believe our industry has done a really, really. Really, really, really, really, really, really shitty job since the creation of it, um, of meeting people where they're at and connecting their passions, their joys, their experiences to how they can learn money, the money game, and become and get ahead, right? It's always been about, Hey, give us your money. We'll put this in this investment. We'll get you a hundred thousand percent return, whatever the hell it is. Right? It's always been about like. Getting money, return of money, getting money, return of money. This is what you're supposed to do at this age, supposed to have this much money at retirement and blah, blah, blah.

Rachel Duncan: 6:23

The thing is, well, and I'll add, and it's just for these people. Yes, right? These people who look like us, which tends to be the white guys who you know, and the boomers. And so it's like a lot of us have just simply felt left out. Also, like I was told when I had, like I was so proud, I'd saved a thousand dollars. I was like 24. I walked into a bank, what do I do with my money? And I was told I don't have enough money to do anything with my money. And it was such, I think back on that time, what a missed opportunity for that person to have a conversation with me. So I shut up about it for the next eight years. Like, well, clearly I don't have enough money to get any help with this. You know? And I mean, it's such a disservice, like we're so many folks are just left out. I feel like, oh, that's not my thing. Especially, I work with a lot of folks who are creative, neurodivergent all this stuff. Like, oh, I, I'm the one in my family who's quote irresponsible with money. And then that like badge stays with you. And then how are. We all have to interact with money. So it's so unfair to say, well that's not for me. This is one of these topics. We, we just don't have that luxury of saying, that's not for me.'cause we all have to do something with our money.

Stoy: 7:25

We do. And we've been so misappropriated misled because we haven't had the diversity in industry. We just haven't, I wrote an article for an inves or investment news, sorry about DEI, and it's been blown up and in my community I've gotten attacked. The old white advisors, of course, right? I mean, who, who else was gonna come at me? And their whole thing is like, well, di really doesn't do anything, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this is the simple fact. And, and they, there's like four or five of'em have responded publicly that had said, I only want to hire someone based upon their performance, their merit, and all that stuff. And I said in my article and subsequently. Yes, I'm a, I'm a former college athlete, right? I played football. I understand performance, competitiveness, and merit. We all need to have merit. You can't just go off willy-nilly and do this, however, you can't get into the game to even show your merit. Right now, there is advisors and people in other industries and et cetera that are not even allowed to get into the game, let alone the training or the practice for the game to show that they have the merit and they can perform. And that's the problem. And people with money only usually truly, really wanna work with people that are like them. Whether that's, you know, they physically look, look like them, sound like them, or believe in the things they believe in. Tell me if this is true, but I'm pretty sure like the 80% of the old white dudes that are advisors don't make up 80% of this country.

Rachel Duncan: 8:55

Absolutely not. So

Stoy: 8:56

what are we really doing?

Rachel Duncan: 8:58

And I've had so many clients tell me when I've asked them like, oh, why did you use me like. You seemed nice. You seemed like a warm person. Not like just nice, but like you actually seemed like someone who I could have a kind conversation with about money. You looked non-judgmental. I had recently had a member who's a person of color say, you look like you're not racist. And, and this person said, I had been looking for someone in finance who was a woman of color and actually couldn't find them. And then I saw I am a white person and said like, well, she'll do. But I really appreciated that like my branding and it showed and my. Authenticity and who I am and my character in there is that like I'm gonna pre be a person who can have tough conversations. I'm a person who has a wide and accepting personality also, that I'm just kind, I bring a lot of humor into my work. It's very light. It's. Fun as well as deep and emotional. And there's a lot of folks who need that, where the idea of sitting down and talking to someone about money is like, I'd rather put pins in my eyes and I try to, I do my best to, to make the vibes good. So like that's a lot of the feedback I get is like, your vibes seem good.

Stoy: 10:01

Well, and I've um, I've done a bunch of studying and data on this both from just. Out there and asking people, because it comes down to two, there's two types of people in this world I have found, and only one type of person I allow on this podcast anyway. But it is, there's two types of people. You either care about people or you care about money. That's, it is as simple as that. And some people are like, well, I, I do both. You can, you can care about people and still make good money. Yeah. However, if you only focus on money, you're not taking care of people. There is no overlap to that is literally truly one or the other, and that's what people see out of you. That's what I felt. That's what I see, right, is because you care about people. You're not sitting here going, man, I, you know, I just wanna make a million dollars this year, or whatever number may be off of people. No, I wanna help as many people as I can with what I'm good at. Yes, they have to pay for that. But it's not because that's what I'm wanting to do. And so that's one of the hills that I will die on as well, is that there's only two people in this world and there's no, in my opinion, there's no room for people that only care about money, and that's one of my hills. So what is one of your hills that you will die on?

Rachel Duncan: 11:11

Okay, my pet peeve is the word abundance. I like that. God, it is thrown around in my audiences so much. And my pet peeve is that it's not that I, I don't agree with abundance. It's great. But what are we saying? What are you saying when I just wanna manifest abundance? So, you know, I tend to work with a lot of women, millennials. That's very much like the lingo that we use. And I, there's a couple things. I feel it's just not specific enough. Right. Are you talking about having more income? What income level? Like I kind of push folks to a little more specificity and, and I think the word, you know, relates to kind of like, Hey, I need to shift my mindset to be more open to things. I'm all about that. That's great. The, the thing that, the layer of the word abundance that I don't love is I hear, I wanna have so much money, I don't have to think about money anymore. It was like, are we talking about having your safety and basic needs met first and being able to have like a, a, a lifestyle that you really enjoy? So then we need to get a lot more specific about what that means and from both the numbers and what that lifestyle looks like. And also, guess what, the more money you have actually, the more time you have to spend with it. Now, granted, yes. You might be at a point where I, I'd love to not worry about where my rent check is coming from. Absolutely. I want you to not have to worry about that anymore. But what's interesting is the more wealth we gain, actually the more time you have to spend with it. It, it's not less. So I kind of feel like there's a little bit of like, I'd love to have so much money, I can really avoid it. And that's just not, that's not real. So I, I just feel like I, I love the intention of it and the mindset, and I wanna accept money. Especially for folks who've been maybe chronically underearning or folks who've been marginalized have never received much money. Totally. But abundance just doesn't say enough. It feels too magical to me. And money's not magical. It's just not magical. So I don't know. What do you think that that's, that's, that's my hill.

Stoy: 13:12

I could not agree more really. One, I loathe money. I really wish we didn't have a money system. The whole wealth, I, I wish it wasn't here. Really do.'cause it just creates just more issues, terrible people, et cetera. When people say, you know, I don't wanna outlive in the scarcity mindset versus abundance mindset, those types of things. I mean, I've used them myself too. But to the, the credit of what you are talking about, majority of people don't know. What living with money is like because of two reasons. One, they, their family has have never had it. They've never learned it, it's never been taught. It's not in social media. Two, because those that are truly wealthy and they, they don't worry about it. And yes, those listening air quotes, those are air quotes. Air quotes, is they show that they don't care and they don't worry about it and they don't have to think about it. Right. That's what they show. But inherently, every ultra wealthy person I know has more anxiety and more troublesome with their money than someone who's living paycheck to paycheck because those people are working hard and they know exactly what's going on, and they try to relax the ones that have the most money. Are always doing something. There's always this next thing. There is this, there is that, there is this, and then it starts growing and growing and growing and now you have 50 different things in 50 different places. And yeah, you might have a team that you hire and stuff to deal with it, but you have so much more going on because. You have to have so much more going on that it creates this whole different lifestyle that those that are living paycheck to paycheck, wish they just had enough to get there. Truly don't understand that, and I think there's a happy medium. I really do that. We need to get people too, but we need them to be real about what that is. We need them to be real with what they want. How they perceive it, income level, the things that you just talked about, but also we need the, the others to be more transparent about actually how life is going and how, you know, unorganized they feel and all those things too. Because ultimately across the board, we all feel very much the same. It's just a different set of issues in circumstances. And I know a lot of people are gonna be like, yeah, well I wish I had those circumstances in a hundred million dollars. Yes, this is true. We all do, but, but you don't. And how realistic is you getting a hundred million dollars based upon where you're born, what your degree is, where you're at? It isn't. So what is for you? And I think that goes back to what you're talking about of what income level, what are your goals, what are your, what are your things you want? Because there's only a truly realistic number that you can get to. Without it fundamentally changing who you are and going to the, I care more about money and less about people type situation.

Rachel Duncan: 15:57

And I feel it leads to a really fruitful conversation about lifestyle inflation, lifestyle creep. And you know, what I see is a lot of folks I work with are underearning. Like, yes, you do absolutely need more money, right? To get to a point where you've got some savings where you can pay for your medical, right? Like, so I do, I kind of see this graph going where, okay, we need more money. For your lifestyle. And then at a certain point though, we need to uncouple your income from your living expenses. Now, where that point is, is different for everybody and that point has gotten higher and higher over the years. And I would say that's kind of where we're talking about more of this like. This comfortable level of happiness, right? Wherever that is, and now I uncouple it where the amount of money I make has no relation to what I am spending on my life. Because that gap, the more I can increase that gap between my income and expenses, that is where true wealth happens. That can't happen till a certain point. Where you might be kind of spending what you're making as you make more to be able to afford a good life and also start to save and things like that so that that can take a while. But then there's that tough conversation because we call it lifestyle creep for a reason. It sneaks up out of nowhere about your wants becoming your needs, and it's a creepy sort of insidious thing that comes up over life. I have worked with folks who make multiple six figures and live. Paycheck to paycheck because of the lifestyle creep. So there's, you know, I do think it's like, okay, let's back up a little bit. It's, it's hard to deflate your lifestyle. I will say it's possible, but that's hard. But if you can kind of look to the look ahead. Oh, okay. At that income level, I think we're good. I wanna say that is in my head what my salary is, or my spendable my, you know, the money I can spend. And anything above that is, I have a plan, right? And I've talked to an advisor or whatever, and I'm putting money in, into that. So, you know, that's a little bit of like, let's get a little more specific because hey, if you don't watch it, all that money you're gonna make, you will spend, you just will spend if you don't have some kind of plan for that.

Stoy: 17:59

And that's really the. The hardest thing for people is if they see it, they will spend it. And there's one thing that we do within someone's budget allocation that is, is different. I, I can't wait to see one your reaction, but you get your opinion on this too. Tell me.'cause there's really two things that I do for our budget, but this one specifically is we create a new line item and we call it fund money.

Rachel Duncan: 18:22

Oh yes.

Stoy: 18:22

This line item,

Rachel Duncan: 18:23

I have a tab in my spreadsheet called fund money. Love it. Same line. Yes.

Stoy: 18:27

Love it. Um, this fund money amount, obviously don't make it three, four,$5,000, right? It should just be 20, 50, a hundred dollars. Whatever fits your budget that you literally can go burn if you want to go do whatever you want with it. I don't care if you cut it up into a million pieces. Please don't. I feel like there's better uses, but that's what it needs to be for because we are humans. We have this impulse, we have this, you know, retail therapy. We have this thing that when we buy something, it makes us feel good at that moment, and you have to be able to do so. If you build that in, then it, that has that flexibility built in. You're not gonna go try to pull it from somewhere else. And then when you do that and you go over budget somewhere else, it, then it starts to spiral. But if you have this fund money, it allows you, gives you that ability to go spend. However you want.

Rachel Duncan: 19:15

Because we have, think about like we're sort of this vessel with all of this stress, and it's like the more you tell yourself, no, no, no, no, no, then you're gonna break out of that and do something potentially really destructive. So having a fun money set aside, it's like a little pressure valve to release. So impulse spending is the number one issue. My clients, my club members come to me with, they really feel like, they feel out of control with it. Um, they dunno where their money's going. It is, I see it, I buy it. And they really have a ton of shame around it. They often have, a lot of my folks are millennials, so they've got these boomer parents who, oh, it's because of all your lattes. And so there's also like inter-family, you know, fighting and things like that. But I, I'm all about that because if we just restrict, restrict, restrict, guess what? It stimulates the addiction cycle. And it mimics the diet cycle, the addiction cycle, all of this stuff. So this is a framework I I teach a lot is that the, I'm putting in air quotes, relapse, you know the fuck it moment that everyone describes it the same way, the fuck it moment. I'm less interested in the fuck it moment. I'm more interested what was going on before that. Right. Oh, I was like real, I had a fight with my parents or I was like, I spent all week in getting this whole thing organized, or I really told myself I wasn't gonna eat out this month. Right. This like super restrictive, unrealistic, like denial and restriction. And then guess what? I blinked out and apparently I bought a ticket to Paris, right? And, and so. Actually, the more we are aware of this cycle, how human it is, the cycle gets less and less dramatic every time we go around it. Actually, one little hack I love, you can share this with your clients. I love pre-purchasing a gift card. So it's like, okay, this is my fun money. It's a, you know, target or Sephora or whatever it is. Buy yourself a gift card. You've spent it already, and then it's really fun. Then you make a plan for it. So I say plan for the impulse, which kind of seems like, uh, you know, a contradiction in terms, but like, and you enjoy it so much more. I got a hundred bucks on this thing, I'm just gonna. Go for it, right? It's already spent. You have that great time, right there is kind of a ceiling on it, and then people end up gamifying it, which is really fun. And for folks, I mean, I think this is true for a lot of folks, but especially those with A DHD, the gamification really works. What's the best stuff I can get for under this threshold? That's the dopamine working, that's the thrill of the hunt. And it's a much more satisfying experience than like, oh, just little impulse. Spending here and there, and then I feel shitty afterwards. Like if you plan for that impulse, if you prepurchase it, it can actually feel so much better and it starts calming the desire

Stoy: 21:48

and then it puts everything else into line. It really does. Like I, it really does. Once we implement it, I. People actually, like we are able to reduce overall budgets because of it. And I'm not talking about the overage of the budget, like I'm talking about our budget line that we set. Even though they go over, we're able to reduce that because of that. Right? Um, it takes a lot of those, I don't wanna say impulses from everything else, but it takes away that like, I really needed that, or I really want that, or. I, I deserve that. Right? Even within that budget, it just takes kind of all of that away and allows them to be free. And ultimately that's what what I really want from clients, and I know you do too, is the, I call it cashflow, flexibility, the ability to have movement and flexibility within your money to adapt to those cycles because those are real. This is, no one on this planet that I know anyways is so rigid with their budget that every month is exact same thing. They feel the same. You know the weather's the same. Everything's the same. Those

Rachel Duncan: 22:47

people don't come to

Stoy: 22:48

us Doy, I think they're out there and they don't seek help. Exactly. It's just not out there. So you have to have that flexibility and I really believe that that's a key point too. So,

Rachel Duncan: 22:56

yeah. And because it dispels shame, I think that's the big thing. Right? Especially if a lot of my folks have never talked with any adult about their money. Like, maybe other than some fights with their parents, I'm like the first one. So to, to give that kind of allowance, like, of course you need some fun money. Oh my God, now I can breathe. I can be a person. I could like go spend a hundred dollars on yarn if I want to. Yeah. Like, yeah. Do you, do you, man, like I am more concerned about how you feel about you than what I feel about you, you know?

Stoy: 23:25

Yeah, absolutely. Alright. What's another hill?

Rachel Duncan: 23:29

Well, this's the more practical side, not less therapy side. It's just that people gotta get off the whole points thing. Credit card points just aren't worth it unless you are in the pay it off in full every month club. The points are a gamification again, but towards really negative habits. You know, I've, I've got some clients who really didn't understand how like little value the points were that they had. And, um, keeping credit cards open with annual fees that they couldn't swing because of the points. And, you know, it's, it's real, it's gambling in action. And, uh, I would say I think points should be a lovely little celebration for paying off your credit card in full. It's, it's not worth it otherwise to be accruing points, you know, unless you're really on top of your cashflow game. So, yeah, I try to get back from that. And I know debit cards are problematic. I know they're insecure, but. I do offer to my clients, have a couple months of debit card spending months to get used to what their actual cashflow can afford, and then get back into the credit card use. That's a more responsible credit card use, so just don't be attached to the points, y'all, it's, it's not worth it until you're really got your arms around your cash flow.

Stoy: 24:37

It really isn't because of the interest rates. Exactly. Like truly

Rachel Duncan: 24:40

it's gonna blow everything. Like points is just like they're pennies, pennies, pennies on the dollar. Um, you compare that to 28% interest rate. Like they just don't.

Stoy: 24:50

Right. Like why, why do you think credit cards incentivize you people for points? Right. It costs them nothing. Yeah. And they earn so much more money on it because you like to hold onto the interest rates and we got interest rates 17 to 25%. Yeah. That's where they get you. Now back to your point, unless you really understand how to utilize it and set it up, like for example, a lot of business owners or those others that you could have automatic bills on and you're just using as points, perfect. Then set up to auto pay with it that way. It's just, it's just money and money out. You're just using the account for protection and points. That's it. Literally nothing else that you have to do. The caveat to that is you need to look at the transaction fees because a lot of places now pass that on to you. Three, three and a half percent. I'm sure it's getting higher as we speak, but they pass that on. It's not worth it. For the points.'cause the points don't equate to three, three and a half percent.

Rachel Duncan: 25:44

Never. They

Stoy: 25:44

just don't, they never will. Um, it'll never happen. So just be really, really smart people out there because you're gonna get into that credit card hole. And then we're, now we're talking about a whole different game, right? Gamification. Now we have to play a different game and now we gotta get you out of debt. And we, we have to figure out that, that situation. So I like that.

Rachel Duncan: 26:02

Yeah. And plus the points are often what you can use'em for is so restrictive and like, we actually don't travel much in our family and if we do like, we want a lot of control over how we travel. So we only do cash back. And so when we like cash that out a few times a year, that's then, then maybe we'll put that in a travel fund and we just cash it out. So yeah, we're going on a huge trip this summer and I'd said, oh, do you have points like. No, we've just been collecting cash for the last few years and that has paid for it. So then we can decide exactly what flights we want with the carrier. So, you know, I mean, it depends. That's, that's our thing.'cause we're not big travelers. So I also think like, know, know yourself, like, you know, um, I think there can be a lot of restrictions with these points that might not suit your life. And I'm a big proponent of just that straight up cash,

Stoy: 26:47

that cash flow. Flexibility. Yes. Having ability to be flexible. It's, it's a massive thing.

Rachel Duncan: 26:51

Yeah.

Stoy: 26:53

Alright, so we've been through what we've done on our hill, we've been through your club, all those great things. Now we get to like my special two questions.

Rachel Duncan: 27:01

Ooh.

Stoy: 27:01

Okay. And these are always fun, although you kind of hit upon the first one, so we'll see where this goes. But what is your first money memory?

Rachel Duncan: 27:08

Such a classic. This is a classic therapist. Questions. Doy. I love it. Well, I have many,'cause I've thought about this a lot'cause I've asked many people this question too. Um, I, one of my first ones was my dad always. Did taxes, and this is back in the eighties, so it was all paper and pencil. And he had, you know, one of those great old calculators with the paper tape, and it was like, really clicky clackity and it would like really be noisy when it printed out. And, um, and he'd be sitting down and, and, uh, and he'd invite me over and I got to run the calculator. And so he would tell me, you know, add this and then add this and subtract. This and you know, percentages me such great, like basic math and um, so I think just like the sensory experience, I mean, I was just obsessed with office supplies, so like, just the calculators, so Great. That's great. But you know what I realized, I really do appreciate, my parents know they were not great with money in all respects, but they really involved me in like. In the process and we went, it was very lean times, like very lean times and you know, they would say, Hey, we've got$50 to spend at the store today. Can you help me keep track? Right. They would involve me in it or they would say, ah, that's just not something we can do this month. Because we had, you know, we had to replace the brakes in the car, but also just including me in the taxes, like making it a really enjoyable experience for me and I was gonna maybe 10 or something, and that it was something that I could do and wasn't scary. I think just on this subtle level. I can see how that paved the way for my work now because it was like, Hey, just sit down with a calculator. Like you pretend you're a grownup and you just kind of make it a nice time and it's something you get through and it's maybe not the best thing ever, but it's not the worst. And my dad just made it really sweet and fun as well as serious, you know? Yeah. Um, so that's an early memory

Stoy: 28:48

when you look back on that, has that. How has that molded you and how has it represented into you today where you're at,

Rachel Duncan: 28:56

like that experience? I think I bring a lot of what my dad brought of like, Hey, let's sit down. It's all good. You're good. Check it. And also, right, he taught me to like run it three times, right? It's like, it's okay if you make a mistake, it's just fine. Like this is life and you keep redoing it and we're in this together. And I think that's very much my belief about money is that we gotta be in this together and we gotta be kind about it and really like. Forgiving of mistakes. And it's also just possible, it's just a sheet of numbers you can add up or sort of do whatever with. And yes, there's times to get help, you know, and there's also a lot you can do on your own. And I mean, like, you know, you don't have to go to an advisor for everything. And I think just like having that, really having more positive. Conversations, more positive experiences with money starts to, you know, it heals the trauma and, and it makes you believe that it's something you can do. So that's something I think I've carried from my dad. Thanks, dad. Yeah.

Stoy: 29:52

Hi, dad. All right. Last question. What is one thing you wanna leave our listeners with that they can implement today and start their journey or improve where they're at in their journey?

Rachel Duncan: 30:01

Mm-hmm. Well, I'd love to know if people wanna use that. The, uh, gift card thing. I do love that. That's, I love it. A little, little hack, but I think on a much bigger scale, um. You know, journaling has just proven to be an incredible tool for folks. And, um, I'll share my favorite journaling prompt, which is you sit down and you write dear money, and you write a letter to money and you let it out. Like all the complaints, all the four letter words, the questions, the frustrations, the admiration, whatever it is, whatever's true for you and you, and you write a letter to money. And then you take a minute and you turn the page, you open a brand new page and you write money's letter back to you and you start it with something sweet, you know, dear Lovey, dear story. And if I know, it might seem weird, it's actually pretty surprising how easy it is to get into this. And you write money's letter back to you and it's, it's quite a journey. It's quite emotional and I think y'all might be surprised, pleasantly surprised with what's, what money is like when you. When you open up a direct line of communication with it, instead of it going through somebody else, when you have a direct line of communication with money, its character tends to be really compassionate and kind and creative and forgiving. But also boundaried won't put up with your shit. Wants to be closer to you, wants to be friends, wants to work together. Like I have run this. I'm not kidding hundreds of people. I do this in workshops. I do this individually and more often than not, those are the qualities of money when we open up a direct line to it, and these are even like people who are full on traumatized about money. I. It was, it was that person or that situation that was traumatic. Now, money itself actually really wants to work with you. Uh, so it's, it's a wonderful thing that I use myself all the time and I do a lot of workshops with it, and it can start to create this like beautiful direct line. And then when you have like a financial decision coming up or you're frustrated with yourself. Write to money and have money right back to you. It will help you decide what to do. It knows and if you can slow down and ask it, there's incredible wisdom that's already all within you about maybe a direction you need to take or something you need to choose to do.

Stoy: 32:17

I love that, love that exercise. I'm about to start doing that one.

Rachel Duncan: 32:20

I wanna hear, I wanna hear your letters back. Yes.

Stoy: 32:23

I'm gonna start doing that. Well, we appreciate you and we appreciate everything that you do, both with the Money Healing Club, but also just in general

Rachel Duncan: 32:30

thank you.

Stoy: 32:31

The spirit in what you have is, is truly warming and I'm so glad that I have someone else that I can relate to and, and be a resource in this fight against. I don't know what we're fighting, but I know it's not what we need to be doing right now. Thanks. And our industry needs to improve and I, I'm just glad that you're part of that.

Rachel Duncan: 32:46

I appreciate so much being on the podcast you've given me also podcast inspiration for, for my podcast, so thank you.

Stoy: 32:52

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you.