Men, Money & Mental Health: The Silence Hurting Fathers | Ashley Quamme

Father's Day is over. The weight isn't. Every father you know just spent the weekend smiling for photos, opening cards, flipping burgers, and quietly carrying the same loop in his head. Am I doing enough? Am I providing enough? Is the business gonna make it through the summer? Are my kids gonna grow up and resent me? That static doesn't turn off because we put on a clean shirt and called it a holiday. Watch the full episode on YouTube here: [YouTube link]

This week I sat down with financial therapist Ashley Quamme to talk about something the financial industry has spent decades pretending wasn't a problem. The intersection of masculinity, money, and mental health is not three separate conversations. It's one. And the bullshit story we got handed about what a "real man" looks like when the money gets tight is breaking fathers in ways nobody's clocking.

Here's a stat that should stop you cold. Men experiencing economic insecurity are 16.3 times more likely to report suicidal ideation than women. That is not biology. That is shame. That is the silence we trained into men since they were boys. Ashley breaks down why it has never been a harder time to be a father, why men inherently won't ask for help (especially with money), why financial therapy isn't just for people in crisis, and why your financial decisions are 80% emotional whether you want to admit it or not.

We also get into the awkward middle ground of first generation wealth, why showing up to the family reunion in a nicer car suddenly feels weird, how to actually open this conversation with the man in your life without making him shut down harder, and what financial advisors need to start doing differently. I close it out with the bluntest call to action I have ever put on this show. Men, cut the shit. Find someone. Open up. Stop letting pride run your finances and your mental health into the ground.

If this hit home, drop a comment. Tell me where you're feeling it most. I read every single one.

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Transcript

Father's Day Is Over. The Weight Isn't.

Ashley Quamme 0:21

Well, then, it's time.

Stoy Hall 0:29

All right, we're just a few days removed from Father's Day, right, folks? Come on now. It is Father's Day. However, I want you guys to, to, to think through the men in your life, specifically the fathers obviously, that are going through stuff that they don't talk about, right? Being a father myself, being a man myself, and dealing with money, not only my experience personally, but just dealing with clients and everyone else, we go through a lot that we don't talk about, right? We, we probably went through Father's Day highlighted with, you know, fun family stuff, toys, gifts, grilling, who knows? But in the background, there's always that feeling of, "Am I doing enough? Am, am I providing enough? Are we gonna have enough money to get even through the summer? Is my business failing? Am I not failing? Are my kids gonna grow up to be like me, not be like me, be like my father?" Somewhere in those realms. All those things are coming into play, and then you throw what's going on in society. How do I protect them? How do we know what's gonna happen down the road? And every one of those things are hitting every father that I've ever known. Now, there's outliers. There's shitty fathers out there, don't get me wrong. But there are those ones that are holding that, and that's very heavy to them, and they don't know what to do, who to talk to, or where to go. Now I'm, I'm very lucky personally, everyone, that I have a lot of connections with either my friends or family members or colleagues, so that way we can talk about something like that, and I'm a little more outgoing than others. But those that are, are not, they're in your lives right now. They're not the ones listening to this podcast right now. You are. And we wanna be able to take today to kinda kind of get you into their mindset of where they're at, what they're going through, and why it's such an important time around Father's Day, because it's really the only time that it's highlighted around men and around fathers of what's going on around them. So I brought on Ashley, not because she's a man, 'cause she is not. Obviously, you all know this. I got her. Uh, because she deals with couples, she deals with the situation from the background, from, from her therapist background- I'm sorry and I got her background

Masculinity, Money, And Mental Health Are The Same Story

Stoy Hall 2:30

I was not- And I'm so glad I did not

Ashley Quamme 2:31

expecting you to say that. Um,

Stoy Hall 2:34

so we definitely wanted to bring her on and get her background, um, also with what I'm going to say. So as we dive into this topic, um, everybody, the intersection between masculinity, money, and mental health In my opinion, are one and the same sadly. Whether it's because we were raised in our generation, as we were joking off-camera, of being so old at 40, uh, is, you know, um, dust it off, just work harder, and it'll all work out for yourself, right? Don't, don't talk about your emotions. Don't do any of that as, as a man in the masculinity side of things. Then we've also been preached our entire careers and lives that remove your emotions from money decisions. Well, that's funny. We're humans. That's really tough to do. And then it leads us to the mental health. All of those things are intertwined, and my first question I pose to you, Ashley, after that long, long intro of course, um, is how often

The Hardest Time In History To Be A Father

Stoy Hall 3:30

have you seen this come through without a man or father, someone actually saying something to you?

Ashley Quamme 3:38

All the time. I mean, sometimes it's just a matter of you can... You know, when I'm sitting across, uh... Well, let me... So I used to be physically in an office, now it's, it's, it's virtual. So when I say sitting across from them, uh, albeit virtually or when it was in person, sitting acr- sometimes you can just tell, um, that they're carrying something, uh, that they, that they... Maybe it's not entirely, you know, conscious to them, but you can just tell. And I wanna name something, I wanna name something too that, uh, I think is important, uh, and I hope I don't get too much flack for it. Um, I hope the haters don't come after me for saying this. But never has there ever been a harder time to be a father. A- a- and I say that because everything that you just talked about in terms of what is masculinity, like what does that mean? What does that mean to me? What does that mean, you know, um, from a societal y- you know, kind of place? Like, we're- I think I see a lot of men struggling just with, with that to some varying degree. But then there's also this other side of, you know, "Okay, I'm called to be a leader. I'm called to provide for the family. I have to be, quote-unquote, strong. But I also need to be a good dad, and I need to be loving and caring and nur- like, and nurturing." And so I, I think it's really hard on being a father, um, you know, I'll say a good father, because they're balancing, like, how do I show up and lead and be a strong, you know, man and what that, what that means and what's asked of me, but then how do I also be loving and caring and nurturing and, you know, show up for my kids and kiss their boo-boos, uh, you know, and try to help them cultivate their own feelings? So there's this pendulum swing- Mm-hmm right, that we see a lot of fathers,

The Sprints Story And Lessons Moms Won't Sign Off On

Ashley Quamme 5:30

you know, that are, that are going through. And so, uh, which is why I say never has there ever been a harder time to be a dad, uh, than where we are right now.

Stoy Hall 5:39

And I feel that a lot, like, personally. So- Yeah obviously, I, I, I played collegiate football, and I have this higher standard always across the board, and I reflect on it sometimes, like, "Am I being too hard on them?" But then, like, I'm there at every practice, I'm at every game. We, we, you know, we camp every weekend together. Like, I'm always there. And I still feel that pull of the, the, uh, what's, what's the term everyone's talking about nowadays? But, um, anyways, like, I feel the pull of, like, am I supposed to be the man and lead them and not show emotion, or am I supposed to show them how to feel and talk about their emotions? And it's always this, like, back and forth and back and forth, and I think it's because society's figuring out that it's both, right? Right. There are clear times that you as a father need to do things that the mother won't want to do, right? Right. And my, my wife Michelle and I go through this all the time. Um, last summer, our oldest was going through this, and it's probably emotional change, but was going through this thing of, like, he couldn't push past a certain degree of intensity when it came to his sports or his career or whatever he was trying to work on, right? And I was raised in a way of you have to push through that. The only way to push through that is to get all the way to that point and then keep going.

Ashley Quamme 6:58

Right.

Stoy Hall 6:58

And so one weekend I, I said, I said, "Babe, I'm taking the boys over to the field. We are going to run sprints and stairs and all of that, and I'm going to break them. Like, I'm f- I'm going to break them down. They are going to cry, and we're gonna get through it." She's like, "I can't do that. Like, I can't be involved. I don't wanna see my babies cry. I don't wanna be doing that." I didn't have that feeling. My feeling was I have this duty to make sure that I can get them to a degree of which they can perform themselves, right? Ipso facto, they ran, they cried, and a week later they asked, "Dad, are we gonna do that again?" Because it broke them to a level that they didn't know they could get through, and that's all that mental side. So I say that because, like, I go through it still myself of there are things that we need to be doing as men and fathers. It's just ingrained in us. But also the, the flip side, the emotional side, and it's just so difficult to do, say, talk, move, because you get flak one way or another, and I'm sure we'll get flak for this conversation too. I just did a Threads post about how I don't think you should baby kids when they fall down at practice or in training or in games. They need to get back up and not become quitters or complainers. And man, you should you should see the comments out of the woodworks about, "That's that male masculinity. That's all that." And I'm like- Oh, like- that's just my mindset, and that's where I'm at. So- Yeah I definitely understand and hear you on it's gotta be the hardest time to be a father at this time.

Ashley Quamme 8:23

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I think that I would also say for those that are, excuse me, wanting to get on and be the keyboard warriors right now that are listening, like, I would also say the same thing about being a mother. But we're not talking about mothers today. We're talking about fathers. Uh, and so I just wanted to be clear that being a parent in general, it is incredibly difficult. Uh, but we're talking about dads today, and dads, you know, fathers, they need their own time. They need their own dedicated airspace. Uh, and so being a father is hard, balancing what, you know, we think we should be, what our, mm, previous parents, you know, generations have told us what we should be, what society tells us, what our spouse tells us we should be. Uh, you know, I give Clayton a lot of feedback. Uh, I give him a lot of feedback. Uh, I'm not saying that it's all good feedback, but there's a lot of feedback that's given. A- and it's hard to take all of that in, synthesize it, and then figure out, okay, but who do I wanna be as a dad? Uh, how do I wanna show up in this world and with my family?

Stoy Hall 9:28

And I'll say this for, probably for both of us, though. Fathers, you do need to be present. You do need to be involved. You do need to be giving your effort, 'cause at the end of the day, the effort, whether you th- you're doing it right, wrong, or indifferent, your effort of just being there is doing way more than not being there. My father wasn't around. I luckily enough had my grandfather and other, I guess, my, my friends' dads around to, like, get some of that. But not having you around is worse than having you around and trying to figure it out, 'cause we're all trying to figure it out.

Ashley Quamme 9:59

Yeah, I would agree.

The Shame Of Not Knowing And Refusing To Ask

Stoy Hall 10:01

When it comes to the, the money conversations, right, that you sit down with a, with couples, um, I would assume probably the man feels, like, more dominant in the conversations and talks about the money the most and feels like wants to be the most organized, quote, unquote, right? But can you see through that? I- is it, is it more of a facade, or do they really feel like they have their shit together?

Ashley Quamme 10:24

You know, here's what I would say. I actually see where, um- By and large, men, if we're talking about a heterosexual couple here, men are, have more opinions, better, have better information, they're more knowledgeable around more of like the long-term, bigger picture, um, uh, aspect of a couple's financial life. Um, women tend to do more of the day-to-day. They know more about what do kids' clothes cost, what are we spending on back to school shopping, like groceries, things like that. So it's not a matter of seeing through it. I think when we're talking, at least from a couples standpoint, men are going to chime in and be more knowledgeable and assert more, like, opinions when we're talking about, like, longer term or bigger picture, um, you know, type of financial decision-making. Uh, and so, you know, uh, that is great. That is fantastic. Um, uh, but sometimes it, uh, comes at a cost of creating conflict, uh, in, in the couple system, and we don't have to get into all of that. I, I do see, though, where maybe a little bit, a little bit more to your point where I think that there is a I think it's outwardly spoken, I think it's explicitly spoken, but, uh, you know, spoken, unspoken message that men should know about money management and how to take care of the family, not just from earning income and providing that way, but also how to manage it. And so there are men where maybe they don't have that level of knowledge, financial literacy, experience, like practice. There is a little bit more of a, um, sometimes outward, like, putting on. Um, and I, you know, imagine that for many of them, some of them I actually know because we'll go there in conversation, there can be shame associated with not knowing. Uh, and so I think that for, you know, certain groups of couples where the male is more of that longer term CFO type of, uh, like, partner, like, there's, there's an expectation, and maybe they've been taught, maybe they're just interested in it, and they've been able to fill that role or gap. But then there is also another group of men where they still feel that expectation. They still feel that sense of duty, like responsibility, but maybe they just don't have the knowledge or care. Maybe they don't give any flying flips about, like, knowing all of this, but they feel like they should, and then there's shame associated with not knowing.

Stoy Hall 13:04

And I think I would say on top of that shame is not knowing but also not wanting to ask, right? Yeah. Apparently men don't like to ask for instructions. We'll just figure it out.

Ashley Quamme 13:14

I'm not gonna go there. I'm not gonna go there. Right. Um, I'm a little triggered, um, w- with my own personal stuff. I'm not gonna go there, but yes. Yes.

Stoy Hall 13:24

But it's true. I, I... It's just true, okay? You know the whole stereotypical thing? No, it's a fact. Like, it's a fact. Men in- inherently we don't wanna ask, and this is where I believe the, the, the good old boys club thing comes into the financial industry in itself. I, I truly believe historically men don't ask, so if their friend's involved or someone else's friend's involved, it kind of just naturally happens, right? And they just say, "Oh, they're taking care of me," and I don't really know 'cause they don't wanna ask questions. Which is in, in my opinion, very dangerous because you've got one demographic, right, the, the, the white males who are this is what they are. They're gonna continue to rise and cream to the crop type situation. That's where a lot of our money is in the country. So be it. But then you've got the others who aren't that, who aren't the alpha male, who don't have those, those networks. You've got anyone who is of color also doesn't have those networks, but now they don't ask the question. M- majority of them. They're not gonna go ask and figure it out. They're just gonna try to figure it out, and there's one thing I know that the money game, this money financial services industry, you can't just figure out. It is something that you have to take time to research, learn, and ask questions because there's too much movement. So for those listening that haven't asked the question or you are, your spouse or someone you know is a father that doesn't ask questions, have them reach out or at least start to research a little bit because there's so much detrimental things that happen, um, when you aren't and you're afraid and you feel shameful of asking. But we get into this next, uh, segment before we get down to your

Noise vs Truth: The Lies About Men And Feelings

Stoy Hall 15:00

expert lens and how, um, you believe someone can help and, and get out a, get out of their situation is we get to this noise verse truth. So I'm gonna say some noi- noises and some truths, and I just want your, your off-the-cuff response to them. Okay? Okay. Uh, first one, men are naturally less open about feelings. It's just how they're wired.

Ashley Quamme 15:23

Um, that is one of my favorites, and favorite in a way that it is, like, just kind of a pet peeve. Um, I, I will, uh, yeah, I will say that. So let's talk... So I hear some version of that, um, you know, men are less, uh, open about feelings or men don't talk about feelings or men don't feel. I can't tell you how many men that I've heard that will say, like, "Yo, I don't really have feelings," like, you know, or that doesn't happen. And, um, they're actually not wired that way. Um, actually, it's, it's really the opposite. Um, but they've been preconditioned from, you know, culturally, uh, but also, like, from an evolutionary standpoint too. Like, I get it. Like, it has evolved in such a way that h- how men deal with feelings- Is different. Um, and some of that has served them very well from a survival standpoint, but we're in modern day history now. Like, we don't need you to go out and hunt, um, and bring back, you know, a mammoth, uh, so that we can survive the winter. Like, we don't need, we don't need that. Um, but we do need connection, and men need it just as much as, as women do. We need that from a human survival standpoint. Uh, and so men are wired, uh, to be able to engage with their feelings, but they just, they, they don't. There's a lot of roadblocks is what I would say, a lot of brakes, a lot of roadblocks there. Um, so that's definitely noise. Uh, I'm hoping for those that are listening, maybe there's some permission

The 16.3x Stat Every Father Needs To Hear

Ashley Quamme 17:01

given to engage a little bit more on that emotional side.

Stoy Hall 17:04

Yeah. In, in some research that, this is the truth part, a little facts of it, um, research that we, uh, saw from Equimundo, Equi- Equimundo, geez, good Lord, research topics, can't talk, not a scientist, uh, shows that men experiencing economic insecurity are 16.3 times more likely to report suicidal ideology than women, flat out. So it's not necessarily based upon biology, but when the economy shifts and there's this economic pressure, men don't feel the, the pressure per se. They, they feel the, the personal failure. Mm-hmm. And I think that's comes back to the shame, that comes back to going out on a hunt and not coming back with a mammoth, and it's that, it's now translated to, to modern day a little bit. Um, next one, financial therapy, which obviously this is gonna l- light up to you. Financial therapy is for people with serious problems, not normal stress.

Ashley Quamme 18:00

Um, normal is just a setting on the dryer. Uh, you know, we all experience, uh... You know, stress is stress. Um, and so how we define that, I think, i- is, is important. And if you are defining your stress, if you're dismissing it, um, then, well, we should pay attention to that. And I would say financial therapy is not just for people with serious problems. Like, there is, and we've talked about this before on different episodes, like, uh, financial therapy is great for people to, if they're wanting to be proactive about things, um, as a way, if something is going good, and they wanna be, you know, a business is going well. We've reached a certain level because of, you know, the business success, and, like, our family has never been in this position before. Neither have each of our parents. So now we're starting to generate, you know, some, some cash, some, you know, liquidity here. And, like, what do we do? Like, this is a good stress. Let's reach

First Gen Wealth And The Weird Family Reunion

Ashley Quamme 19:00

out. Let's, as you were saying, like, let's talk to somebody, like, about this. Like, is that a s- would you define, like, your business doing well as a serious problem? Probably not. Uh, like, probably not. You know, but that is a reason to reach out and talk about what is that like to be, you know, maybe that first generation that is, you know, now moving into, like, middle, upper middle class. Like, that's gonna have some f- you're gonna have some feelings. Might be weird at family gatherings, you know? Like, when you've got, you've got a nice house, excuse me, you know, you've got these things, and, like, now it's weird showing up at the family reunion. You know? You're pulling up in the Lincoln Navigator, uh, and, you know, I don't know, I'm just making things up here. Uh, may- or maybe a lux- you know, another luxury like car. Like, it could be weird. Like, that's important to talk about, um, as a couple. So it doesn't have to be, like, a serious problem, like, where, you know, there's gambling addiction, um, or, like, just overspending, compulsive, like, spending, uh, or we're on the brink of divorce. Uh, like, here, like, we can go and talk about normal stresses, uh, and that can be equally as helpful and productive.

Stoy Hall 20:11

Well, I'm gonna go a different direction, because you just ran right over to the next one- My bad without even knowing what the next topic was, and that was- My bad first gen wealth builders. Oh, it's like, it's like a sixth sense of yours. I'm so rude. Wow. I'm

Ashley Quamme 20:22

so rude. I'm so sorry. No, no, you're good. I'm so rude.

Stoy Hall 20:24

Uh, I wanna hit back upon what you had said of, of, of going to therapy not just because you need it, but, like, get ahead and those types of things. I th- I wanna ask this What is the biggest misnomer now between financial therapy and then, like, me going in for just regular therapy? Because I, I feel as if there's a disconnect going on where people think it's only gonna be, like, the lay down on the couch type- as opposed to, like, the financial therapy side. And I f- and, and if people understood, I think there would be a lot more for the financial therapy side because there are things that they need to just speak about and get off their chest. It might lead to the, you know, to more of the personal therapy side of things, but I think that other side happens. So what's the biggest misnomer and connection difference between those?

Ashley Quamme 21:14

Yeah. Well, it's not whether you lay on a couch or not and talk, so let me just be clear. Like, at least for when I'm meeting with people, you can always lay on your own couch, or I would actually tell clients that. Like, "Hey, if you feel like you need to lay on the couch to have this conversation, like, by all means, please do so." So, like, when we talk about just, you know, kind of financial therapy, I think, like, the important thing to understand here is the... when we're making financial decisions, um, when we are engaging with money, like our relationship with money, like, there is an element here, like, there is an aspect, um, that it is part technical, like part numbers, but also part emotional as well. You know, our- there's, you know, plenty of research out there. The late great Dr. Daniel Kahneman, you know, that emotional decisions, like financial... I'm sorry, financial decisions are 80% emotional. Like, you know, that's not the... 20% is numbers, right? So, like, going in, talking, like, just understanding that, like, when I go to make a financial decision, that there are emotions or other psychological, like, factors at play here. Like, knowing that and going, "Hmm," like, that might be worth talking about. You know, that is different than just the, "I need, like, traditional therapy." Like, we think about traditional therapy as, "I need healing. Um, I need, you know, s- I need to be healed or find some kind of healing, uh, from something that's, like, maladaptive," you know? Um, a- and that's not, that doesn't have to, that's not really the case, like, with financial therapy. It's really the awareness and recognition that the way in which I've come to think, feel, and do money, it is part numbers, and it is als- also part

Ashley's Framework For Fathers And Those Who Love Them

Ashley Quamme 23:00

emotional or psychological. And if I can understand where and how that intersects with how I make decisions, guess what? My decisions are ultimately gonna be better.

Stoy Hall 23:11

Absolutely. Next segment, your expert lens. This is all you and how you, how you're gonna tell us how to be better in our lives, basically. Um, that being said What, let's kick this off with what, what are some steps or some avenues for either those, um, fathers that are listening going, "Oh, sh- I need, I need to improve," or, and/or those that are listening that they want to broach that conversation with that father in their life?

Ashley Quamme 23:40

Okay, so let's talk about just if you're listening and you are a father first, because I think it's different. Um, that is definitely a little different. Like, f- first and foremost, like, awareness, recognition, you know, coming off of autopilot, being aware of like, huh, like, I might have some stuff here around, like, what it means to be a man in my family, what it means from a place of masculinity, how I need to be the breadwinner, um, how I need to run the family, like, household from a financial management. Like, huh, like, I might have some stuff there. So, like, there's an awareness piece of, like, maybe, maybe I've got some thoughts and feelings that are not serving me well. Um, and so, like, first and foremost, can we just name that? Can we just, like, come off of autopilot? Uh, can we bring in some awareness and just name, like, maybe there's something there. That's step one, and that's step one of any, like, really, like, behavior change is, is when we talk about awareness. Um, you know, from, from there, then it's, you know, I talked a little bit about is this serving me well? So, like, is this way in which I'm thinking, feeling, or doing, is it serving me well? Is it helpful or is it harmful? Can we put a, you know, if we do the flowchart, my famous flowchart of do you need new shoes, mine always goes to yes, but sometimes other people's is no. No, I don't need new shoes. Like, is this a financial, um, behavior that is helping me or is it hurting me? And, you know, 51% of the time here. Uh, and if it's, hey, it's actually, like, not helping me, okay, then what do I need to do about it? What are my options for then being able to navigate that, to work through it, to process it? Um, and so this is where, like, hey- Some research is involved. Call your financial planner. Call Stoy, right? Or maybe I need to talk to a financial therapist about this. But I think if we can, you know, kind of break this down into, like, almost, like, a flowchart, I find that that's really helpful from a decision-making, um, you know, framework place for a lot of men. Um, so that's, so that's for, for, for them. If you have... If you're a listener, and you're like, "Ooh, like, this sounds, this sounds really helpful," please do not employ that framework with the male in your life, um, and go, "Huh, okay, are you aware? Yes or no?" Like, "No, you're not aware. Yes, you are aware. Here's how you're gonna do this." Like, please don't approach the conversation like that. It's likely not gonna go well. Um, it's likely not gonna go well. Um, uh, but if there is, you know, if there is a desire to understand, come at, come at the conversation from a place of curiosity. Don't come at it from a place of, like, "You know, babe, I'm really concerned about you, and, like, you just seem to be, like, kinda struggling. And here, let me tell you all of the things that I think that you should do." Um, uh, that approach, while it might be, you know, the intention is to be helpful, like, again, it's not gonna get you the result that you want. And not that this is about getting the result that you want, but if you approach the conversation from a place of, "I wanna learn more and understand more," like, "Hey, babe, like, you're the breadwinner in our family. What is that like for you? Do you ever feel like there's a lot of pressure, um, there? Like, do you have friends that talk about this?" So sometimes, um, what's really helpful is if you, if you have a, a male in your life, and I'm, I'm talking mostly here, you know, within couples, so I'm just using that as an example. But it can be applied to, like, if you have a brother, if you have a, you know, a father or close friend. But asking them if, "Do you have friends or other guys in your life that feel pressure to be a breadwinner?" It's gonna give you some insight, and it's gonna be easier because then they can talk about other people, not necessarily themselves. However, more than likely, if they're giving you and kind of going down that, like, path of like, "Oh, yeah, like, Stoy, like, man, he tells me all the time that he feels, like, so much pressure to, like, keep things afloat and, like, keep the business running. Like, he's just under so much stress," and like, "Man," like, you know, that's gonna tell you that he's paying attention, but also then it gives you a really natural, um, entry to, like, "Well, do you ever feel that way? Is that something that you ever feel?" Um, so you get them to kind of identify with other people first, and then you can come and say, like, "Hey, is that something that you also struggle with?" But again, it's gotta be from a place of, like, just genuine curiosity, not trying to, "Hey, let me learn all about this," and then tell you that you should go and fix it. Uh, that can come, that can come later. Just try to learn, uh, about your partner or this person, this father in your life.

Stoy Hall 28:32

And now for the advisors that are listening, right? You work with a lot of advisors.

Ashley Quamme 28:36

Yeah.

Stoy Hall 28:36

How the hell do they broach this conversation? And, and let me, let me probably preface this. There are different types of advisors out there. There are ones that, like me, who this is how we operate, but there's probably, you know, 60, 70 other percent that aren't like this. How are they now taking these new conversations? Um, because this is kind of newer in our industry to, to, to talk about these things. Yeah. What are some steps that they need to take when they can recognize some of these issues or patterns in their own clients?

Ashley Quamme 29:07

Yeah. I think there's a few different thoughts that come, that come to mind here. Like, one is I might use a similar approach to what I just shared. Come at it from a place of curiosity. Ask them if they... Are there other people, like, in their lives? Um, advisors could also talk about maybe ex- other experiences of their clients, obviously keeping names, you know, confidentiality. But like, yeah, you know, like, "I've got another client, he's a business owner, and man, he just feels all this, like, stress and, like, pressure." Sometimes, um, sometimes talking about, like, another client and what they're going through will land on the client in front of you just in a way that they might feel like, "Oh, yeah, like, this resonates for me." Like, we are... We're really geared towards story, um, and connecting through story, and when we can share other people's story, uh, or our own story, um, sometimes I

Cut The Shit, Dads. The Closing Truth.

Ashley Quamme 30:00

will see that clients are like, "Oh. Oh, yeah, you know what? I actually, like... Yeah, that's actually true for me, too." Right? Like, it, it just helps bring, you know, thoughts, feelings, experiences, emotions, like, kind of to the surface there, uh, through story. So, you know, use story through other clients, become curious, share your own if any of that resonates with you. Like, sometimes a little bit of self-disclosure, uh, can be helpful.

Stoy Hall 30:25

Absolutely. Well, as we wrap this up, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the step of calling out the men. Men, listen, okay? Just listen up real quick. The most dangerous financial decisions and, and issues in your life are not because you are ignorant, or you don't know what you're doing, or any of that. It comes from that, that feeling of, of being too proud, that, that shamefulness, that, "Hey, I'm not gonna ask anybody" situation. I want you to cut that shit out now. I need you to go find that friend, that advisor, your wife, someone, and start the process of opening up. You don't have to give every emotion possible under the sun, but you can at least start with a story of someone that you know and at least say, "Hey, I, I feel somewhere along those lines." Be present. Be okay with opening up a little bit, and I will promise you that will lead to greater whatever success definition you have in your life, will lead you down that path, okay? I know it, it's blunt. I know it's a hard truth, and it, and it's coming at you hard. But you need to listen. You need to take those steps forward to better yourself, not only for yourself, but for your kids and everything in the future. Ashley, I appreciate your time. Always appreciate your time. I'm glad that you were able to come on and talk to our men from a different perspective, and we could go back and forth with that. So without further ado, until next time, everybody, listen up. Listen to Ashley. Follow what she's doing. And if you're afraid to talk to anyone, I'm here for you as well.

NoBS Wealth 32:12

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