Roundtable Ep. 1 Pt. 2 | Guilt vs Shame Money Talk

The world keeps throwing haymakers. Tariffs, wars, student loans, businesses folding, another headline you did not ask for. And what do most of us do? We freeze. This is financial anxiety, and it is quietly wrecking your money and your mental health.

In Part 2 of this roundtable, I sat down with four people who actually understand what is happening in your nervous system when the noise gets loud. Kristina Hall, Ashley Quamme, Tessa Santarpia, and Rachel Duncan get real about why you feel paralyzed, why it is not a willpower problem, and what to actually do about it.

We get into the stuff nobody puts in a budgeting article. Treating chaos like a season instead of a life sentence. Shrinking your time horizon so your brain stops projecting five years of doom. Keeping a have-done list, not just a to-do list. Why hobbies are not a nice-to-have, they are a got-to-have. And why the dad with a broken guitar and a six-pack might be doing more for your finances than your spreadsheet.

Then I gave you the practical move I put in every single budget: joy money. Call it fun money, call it whatever you want. It is a line item you are allowed to burn. Because when you already told yourself yes, you stop stealing from other buckets and drowning in guilt over a massage or a dance class that keeps you human.

Also, yes, we spend a full intermission arguing about sweet tea and barbecue, and Ashley reveals which states she refuses to live in. You are welcome.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Hqjui5CtS-8
 

Guests:
Kristina Hall: https://hallsocialmedia.com/
Ashley Quamme: https://www.beyondthefp.com/
Tessa Santarpia: https://santaia.health/
Rachel Duncan: https://www.rachelduncantherapy.com/

If this hit home, drop a comment. Tell me where you're feeling it most. I read every single one.

New episodes every week on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Subscribe so you never miss a real conversation.

Transcript

The World's On Fire And You're Freezing

Kristina Hall 0:21

Well then, it's time

Stoy Hall 0:28

We all know this, it's 2026. We've had political crap, we've had tariffs, we've had wars, we've had... Now we have a whole student loan thing coming out July 1st. We've had, uh, you know, the most student loans and mortgages and everything delinquent. Uh, businesses are failing. People's businesses aren't doing great. Some are doing fantastic. We've got a stupid IPO launch for SpaceX, and everyone thinks it's gonna be the next savior. Like, we have so many things going on from the financial perspective, let alone, like, the personal and, you know, there's always school shootings, there's always something, right? It causes a lot of us to, like, take that in and just not do anything. Like, I'm not gonna go out in the world. I'm gonna Uber Eats everything. Um, I, I just don't wanna be around people. And I feel like that paral- being paralyzed like that obviously isn't a great thing. I'm not the expert, but I do know it's not a great thing in business for us when we're trying to move forward. When, when we have all this external things happening, and we do start to freeze and, and just, like, lock down, 'cause we all have done that, w- what do we do? Like, where, where, where does that go for all of you of, like, all this stuff coming on? And I know we all take it on because it's part of our... When we do content, it's part of our research so we can help others. Like, but that's a lot, and what do regular people who don't have the experience or the abilities to overcome some of that, like, what do they do?

Ashley Quamme 1:55

I-- well, first, I-- so all of the things that you named there externally, I think are, are hap- are absolutely, they're happening. Um, you're not lying. Uh, that's not what I'm meaning to say, is that you're just making things up. Uh, but I guess when I was listening to you say that and the, uh, what was also coming up for me is just the busyness of life pending where, you know, families are, like right now. So, you know, Story, you and I share just that travel sport commonality. I've got two middle schoolers. Like, we are in the throes of travel sports. We are in the throes of, you know, all just kind of like the things. Um, and, you know, Uber Eats, um, you know, Chick-fil-A. Like, there are just things sometimes where I find that myself, friends, and other clients, like what they tend to reach for is convenience, um, things that make, make life a little bit easier, um, because decision fatigue is real. Uh, a-and so what do or what can, like, people do? I think taking some, taking a few moments, uh, to just really thoughtfully consider, like, what do I need in this period of time right now that would be helpful, uh, for me? So for example, it's summertime right now and I work from home full-time. Uh, my 12 and 13-year-old are also home right now and, uh, this is just 10 weeks where life, my day-to-day, like my like quote unquote like 8:00 to 3:00 is a little bit more disrupted. It's a little bit more chaotic. Um, I'm not able to have the same rhythms and things that I do during the school year, uh, that I do now. And, you know, I think the tendency for some people, uh, myself included, is to be very like frustrated to maybe, maybe there is some like guilt and shame that comes up. Uh, maybe there's, there's a lot of stuff there, but we, we, we fight it, right? We don't take time. We just kind of like put our head down. Maybe we freeze, uh, and just don't do anything, but we might also just fight it, um, internally, like with how we speak to ourself or about the situation. And so I do think taking some time to thoughtfully think through like, "Hey, what do I need like kind of in this season?" For me, what that looks like If we're talking about just some practical strategies, um, you know, I have changed when I go for walks, um, to, like, first thing in the morning. So I've kept my wake-up time, like, the same, even though my kids aren't getting up and going to school, and I'm choosing to go and get my walks, like, in during that time. Also, I live in Georgia, and it-- here in a few weeks, it's gonna be hotter than Hades for about, like, 60 to 90 days. So

Seasons End. Shrink The Time Horizon

Ashley Quamme 5:00

there's some advantage there from a physical exercise. Uh, but I've-- we've also thought about, like, convenience, like, too. Like, what does that look like during this time? Things that maybe we might pay for that are, uh, a little bit more convenient. Um, s- you know, and, and that's okay, and accepting that this is temporary. Uh, I think that is the key for seasons, seasons of life, um, whether, you know, even, like, political climate, um, you know, market volatility, like all... Like, these are seasons. They are generally, knock on wood I will say temporary states. And if we can remind ourself, like, that this is temporary, and so in this temporary state, what do I need? What will help me, uh, to be able to get through? Uh, thoughtfully thinking through and considering that, um, it, at least, you know, it might be helpful. It may not solve everything, but it might just be helpful enough to give you just a little bit more, you know, mental, emotional, uh, or even physical bandwidth.

Tessa Santarpia 5:58

Totally agree with that, and I think, um, it's really important to also shrink the time horizon in your mind because the, the mind has a tendency to just project everything that we need to do within the next year, five years. You know, we're thinking not only about these on an immediate scale, but how is the world gonna be for my kids and next generations? And that's just something naturally that the mind does. Um, so recognizing that and really starting to just focus on, what is one thing I can do in the next 30 minutes or in this day to push me one step forward of training my nervous system to be able to hold and receive more? Um, so I think it helps to really separate the thinking mind from the doing mind. Um, when we can give ourselves proof and evidence of what we're doing, it helps rein the mind in so that it's not so concerned with those long-term things that still need to be done. Um, so I like to a- even make, like, a have-done list, not just a to-do list, because sometimes my to-do list can get so overwhelming, and I do start to feel that overwhelm where you just kinda wanna procrastinate. Um, so just keeping, like, a note in my phone of key things that I've done over the week, so when I do start to feel those lulls, I can return to it and say, "I've actually done a lot." Um, yes, nothing maybe is moving in the direction that I wanted, but I know that I'm putting the effort and the momentum out there, and as soon as I transition out of this fight or flight, I'm gonna be open to more opportunities.

Rachel Duncan 7:33

Oh, I'd love to tag on that, 'cause I wanna go on the fight or flight experience for sure, you know. And in the scenario you were painting, Stoy, I feel like, oh, the emotional experience of like getting inundated with the bad news and stuff is, is a feeling of helplessness. That's one of the most painful things for us to feel is, is to feel ineffective, especially if we're the kind of person who likes to do things or likes to fix things, but then we hear the news, it's like there's no way little old me can do anything. And so

Hobbies Aren't Extra, They're Survival

Rachel Duncan 8:00

I think there's a, a couple things with that. First is kind of like the Fred Rogers, like look for the helpers. Like I look for the glimmers. There is good news out there, everybody. Like, there's good news. You do have to look for it, but there's totally good news. You know? Like-

Ashley Quamme 8:14

Actually, there's an Instagram account called like Good Good News or something like... I forget the handle. Exactly. There's literally an Instagram account that is dedicated like just to good news, to that point, Rachel. I love

Rachel Duncan 8:24

that. Yeah. Let's find that, and we do have to look for it because the bad news dominates because our brains are wired like safety, safety, where are all the threats? So I think number one, just like look for the good news, look for the good news in your present community, your friends, your neighbors, your... I don't know, like this whole bond release just happened in Denver, and all of our parks are getting redone. Like, okay, there's good news out there. And so I think that's number one. And then, but number two, following that line, so I come from an art therapy background. You know what feels really good when you feel ineffective? Is to make something with your hands. And I'm a huge fan of rekindling hobbies, and that's like no joke. I don't... Hobbies just aren't an extra. I really think they're core, and it got to have something that is non-monetized, not part of your career, something that's totally different. And a lot of my clients, their financial healing journey often includes rekindling an old hobby or committing to a hobby that they had been interested in and had put off. Like, these are not nice-to-haves, they are got-to-haves to like how do you feel like a person? And often our hobbies are social. Not always, but often it is about bringing people together you wouldn't otherwise, um, be with. And to make something, to do something that is outside of the commercialism, productivity trap, like you said, Tess. I really love that. Like, I, I, I play music with, um, with other parents once a month, and these are parents that never come to school functions, aren't involved in the PTA. It's like a dad with a broken guitar and a six-pack of beer, and I wouldn't know him any other way, but we rock out to '90s songs every third Wednesday, and it is everything for me. And then I can weather some of the bad news, right? 'Cause like my cup is filled. So, um, find the glimmers, get into your hobbies.

Tessa Santarpia 10:14

I love that. It's not nice to have- Yeah it's gotta have. Right. Yes. Because we take so much of these and just consider them like, oh, it's nice to, you know, do these things. It's nice to do wellness. You know, they're all feel-good kinda habits, but it's really- Self-care like rewiring. Yeah. Rewiring the nervous system from the inside out. Yeah. So gotta have.

Kristina Hall 10:33

Yeah. I agree. I

Rachel Duncan 10:34

feel triggered

Kristina Hall 10:35

by this whole conversation. Oh, no. No, it's a good thing, though. I think it's good. I think I, I, as a storyteller, I like to feel triggered, like, it, it means good content.

Rachel Duncan 10:47

It means I'm alive.

Kristina Hall 10:49

Yeah. And that, you know, it's, it's something that I struggle with, that's why. It's, like, something I struggle with personally. Um, the last three years, but really two years of my life, I've been in a full-time caregiving role. And so, like, that brought, like, a whole other side of emotional stress to me, but also showed me how important it is for me to stay into my routine and do these things that I need to do. And al- like, you know, you just saying, Rachel, like, you fill your cup by, you know, playing music. Like, I love that. I went and took a dance class last month and I was like, "I need to do this stuff." Right? And so that's why I say it's triggering, 'cause I'm like, I know I gotta be better about this, but it's, it's something, and for anybody who's listening who's like me, who really struggles with it, like, you kinda do have to force yourself in the beginning. You gotta force yourself. You gotta force yourself to do it. And, um, I know that every time I do, right? Even if it's like, I live in Florida, so I'm right there with you, Ashley. It's already hot here. And so it's like, you know, even if it means- You guys just come up to Denver. Come to Denver. I love

Rachel Duncan 11:50

Denver. Like- I used to live in Denver.

Kristina Hall 11:51

I lived in Denver, actually. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I'll be like-

Ashley Quamme 11:55

I'll come if they have sweet tea. When they start making sweet tea- I love me some sweet tea. Like, if that's what they have- Can you teach

Kristina Hall 11:59

us? Teach us how then I will move there. I even make- But until then... Hmm.

Ashley Quamme 12:01

Okay, teach us how.

Kristina Hall 12:04

I love, I love Denver. It's amazing. But yeah, I just think that, like, you know, really tapping into your routine, making sure that you're doing these things, um, surrounding yourself by the right people. That's something else that I really noticed, um, how much my personal energy gets drained by people. And so, like, refilling my own cup is, is huge, um, whether that's with people or more often than not, without. And once you can... I think that plays a role, too. Like, understanding your own energetic levels and stuff, and what you can take on. Tapping in... Sorry, I don't wanna go all spiritual on everybody, but it does. It, it helps. It helps. So yeah, I... Everything you guys are saying, I'm like, I need to, I need to listen to this a little deeper. 'Cause I think a lot of us know what we need to do, right? And it's like, we know what we have to do. We know what's gonna make us feel better. But it's the actual doing part. So it's like, we can have the intention behind it, but until we're actually doing it, I think, I think

Joy Money Is A Budget Line You're Allowed To Burn

Kristina Hall 13:00

that's where I sit. And I'm gonna assume I'm not alone in that.

Rachel Duncan 13:03

Can I also... I feel like I wanna close the loop also, uh, y- uh, that I think, uh, things like, yeah, your dance class, you know, music, or getting with community or whatever, and if there is, like, a cost involved or a financial component, that's often, like, a really helpful thing for my clients. "Oh, would I rather DoorDash tonight, or do I wanna pay for that guitar lesson," right? And now I have something I'm going towards, and, like, what is filling your cup? What's feeling really good, and, like, helping me feel like a person? And if there is a financial component, then now we're working towards something, and that thing that is regulating for you, when you're more regulated, you'll be less inclined to impulse spend. You'll interface with your money more often. Like, that's how it all, I think, feeds into itself, because, um, you know, willpower is just a really finite resource, but if you can start the flywheel of signing up for the class, right? Pre-pay- prepaying for it, going with some friends who will remind you or be like, "We missed you in class," it w- ha- I think it's... I think we're so driven in this society that, like, I have to, you know, bootstrap it. I have to. And, and it, sometimes we t- need that little spark to get going, but, you know, w- with our relationships, with maybe putting a little skin in the game financially, these things actually can help us find that motivation to stay in it. And then it's, it's a flywheel, and it fulfills itself.

Stoy Hall 14:19

From a practical step, this is what we do for everyone's budget. It's a line item. We call it fun money or joy money. Larry Sprung, another CFP of mine, terms the toy joy, but, um, either joy or fun money. You have to have this allocation in your budget. I don't care if it's 25, 50, 100, whatever the number is for your budget, but this is money that you literally could set on fire if you want to. Just don't, please do it, you know, something that does bring you joy, but using that for yourself allows you to already know it's not coming from another bucket. Because a lot of us do get stuck and frozen of, "Well, I'm maxed out on my budget, right? I, I have everything allocated. I can't go do that for myself. I cannot go do the Pilates class, or I cannot go buy steak and cook it for myself. Like, I can't do those things that bring me joy because it's not in my budget." And that's why we need to have that fun or, or joy money budget line item for these specific reasons to already tell yourself, "Yeah, go do it." Like, you are allowed to, you need to, you have to, you get to, whatever word you need to use, it's already put into the budget, and it allows that freedom, um, of choice, in my opinion.

Kristina Hall 15:27

Can I just add one thing because you just said that? That is, like, my-- probably my favorite thing about working with you besides the, our relationship, my cousin, brother, not. But I like that I don't feel guilty about those things that I need. Like, I get monthly massages. That shit's not going anywhere. Like, I need that for, like, my... And my massage therapist, like, she's like a healer. I'm like, "This woman resets me every single month." Like, I-- Like, yes, is it an expense? Yeah. Is it an expense I probably don't need? Sure, but no. Like, mentally, it makes all the difference for me. And not having guilt from you around having... like, to be-- needing to do that for me. It's like, oh, man, it's huge. Like, I mean, I remember when you told me I can only get my nails done once a month. Cool. I'm okay with that as long as I can get them done because it's part... Like, that kind of stuff does make me feel more like myself. And I think that if people understood that or had the right financial people in their corner that would... That really lessened the lap-- That made me feel a lot better. It, it might all out to me.

Tessa Santarpia 16:30

Yeah. And Christina, I always like to think of it as like you're throwing more money in the economy, you're supporting all these other businesses like nails, massage. Like, these are people's livelihoods. This is what makes econ- You know, it's reciprocity is how we get more and grow more. So when we're in that scarcity mindset, we tend not to be as giving because we start to hoard and we start, you know, out of fear. Um, so recognizing and just changing your perception in the moment of, "I've-- I have no guilt about this 'cause I'm supporting

The Sweet Tea Intermission Nobody Asked For

Tessa Santarpia 17:00

this other business or I'm supporting these industries," um, can go a long way.

Kristina Hall 17:08

I like that

Stoy Hall 17:08

Let's take a quick intermission before the third topic. This intermission is brought to you and sponsored by Ashley and her recipe for her sweet tea. So Ashley, go ahead, tell us your recipe for sweet tea.

Ashley Quamme 17:19

Um, whoa, okay. What if that's, like, proprietary? Like um, we did not go over this at the beginning. Um, s- are we talk- we're talking, like, Southern sweet tea, AKA, like, diabetes in a cup, right? Like- Well,

Stoy Hall 17:34

I mean, allegedly, we can't get you out, um, of, of the state of Georgia unless we have this recipe,

Ashley Quamme 17:40

right? Well, it's not even, it's not the state of Georgia. Like, the Southeast. Like, let's be clear- Southeast I am a North Carolina girl, like, at my heart and core. Like, born and raised, um, and hopefully will die a North Carolina girl. Um, I'm just forced to live in Georgia right now. Right. But where-

Rachel Duncan 17:57

Ashley, the people, the people wanna know The- The people need to know

Ashley Quamme 17:59

where my boundaries lie are states that serve sweet tea in their restaurants. Like, you know. So I mean, the recipe is simple. It's black tea, uh, and sugar. Now, there are some- there are some key, like, you know, strategies here. Like, there's, like, the sugar, water, tea, like, ratio, like, how strong, like, the tea. There are, like, some, you know, individual preferences here. Lipton is not sweet tea. Like, Lipton s- in a bottle, like, that is not Southern, like, sweet tea. Um, it needs to be, like, just enough, like, you know, kinda sweet, like, thickness to where, you know, it is, it's sa- sh- like it's satiating, like, feels good. Like, with a lot of ice. Oh, that's the other thing too, is that you have to have the right ice. Um, because you need... You can't have big ice cubes, because they're just terrible. You need almost, like, the, um, like, the pellet ice. Um- Like the Sonic ice? Kinda, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and listen, there might be some people that have different thoughts and feelings about this, and they're wrong. But like, the, you know, the ice can also be, like, a deal breaker here. Um, I could talk about sweet tea for a long time, probably than what this intermission allows. But I am just here to say on record, states that do not offer sweet tea as, like, a this is a, you know, staple in our restaurant, you won't find me moving there. I'm not moving to those states. So, and I'm pretty sure Colorado's one of them. So I will visit. For sure. Do

Rachel Duncan 19:33

you do- For sure we have some, like, agave nectar hippie-dippie

Ashley Quamme 19:37

thing. That's not, no. Okay. Like, that might be healthy, and that is great. But I'm talking, like, like, the white, like, sugar, like-

Kristina Hall 19:46

Diabetes

Ashley Quamme 19:46

that, that, yes. Like, I, like, I need diabetes in a cup. Like, uh-

Kristina Hall 19:51

Do you do Sonic as a health issue? Like, my

Ashley Quamme 19:53

teeth need to hurt when I drink it. Ooh.

Kristina Hall 19:57

Do you do sun tea? Have you done sun tea?

Ashley Quamme 19:59

Sun tea?

Kristina Hall 20:00

I have a... Yeah, I have a Georgia boy and he makes sun tea. Is that

Ashley Quamme 20:05

lemonade- Like, le- sweet tea? Lemonade sweet tea

Kristina Hall 20:07

kind of thing? No. It's like- You put it in a

Rachel Duncan 20:08

jar out in the

Kristina Hall 20:09

sun and you put it outside. He's like, yeah. Like, he- he's from Georgia. He's from... He's such a Georgia boy. Does he

Ashley Quamme 20:16

also

Kristina Hall 20:16

eat- Literally red

Ashley Quamme 20:17

clay? Like, because-

Kristina Hall 20:18

I

Ashley Quamme 20:18

don't know I

Kristina Hall 20:19

don't... The sun tea threw me, man. I was like, I was like, "So this is baking outside to, like, steep?" And he's like, "Yeah." He left it out there for like eight hours. Man, it was so good.

Ashley Quamme 20:33

Maybe. Like, this is- I don't know

Kristina Hall 20:35

rainy

Ashley Quamme 20:35

day. That sounds, that sounds, what do they call it? Mm-hmm. That sounds sus. Um- Yeah. I'm

Kristina Hall 20:41

fine. But it's sweet tea, it's just another way of making it.

Ashley Quamme 20:44

I'll try it. But, uh- I... Listen- You should I will try it, but I'm pretty bougie and opinionated about it. And maybe it just, maybe- Of course if he has the right ice, like, it's, it's fine, it's great. I don't know.

Kristina Hall 20:53

I agree with you on the ice. Ice very... So you started this. Oh, shit. Just saying. Yeah,

Stoy Hall 20:58

I forgot I did. That, that was hilarious. Um, it was the... When Ashley went into a different realm, by the way, she, she, she, like, looked here and did this. I knew she was envisioning, like, it's not watery, it's not syrup, but there is this, like, there's this. It is. And that's what she was getting at, and I, internally, I could not. Like, I, I felt- I feel like we

Kristina Hall 21:18

need to, like, zoom on Ashley's face for the, for the edit and, like, have it side by side. I have way too

Ashley Quamme 21:24

strong... I have way too many opinions- I'm here for it about this. Way too many

Kristina Hall 21:25

opinions. When

Rachel Duncan 21:27

you left, like, therapy land. Like, you are no longer a therapist at

Ashley Quamme 21:32

all. I'm so sorry. I'm... All I gotta say is sweet tea and barbecue, if... I will talk for, like, ad nauseam, uh, and, and share my opinion. I'm not ashamed. I will die... Those are hills I'll die on, talking about what's right and wrong when it comes to sweet tea and barbecue, so yeah.

Stoy Hall 21:49

Oh. Well, this intermission was brought to you by Ashley- and her, uh, fascination with sweet tea. Sweet tea is delicious. On our next intermission, next one, will be about barbecue. So folks, stay tuned- Ready uh, for that

NoBS Wealth 22:15

The preceding program was sponsored by Black Mammoth. Any awards, rankings, or recognition by unaffiliated third parties or publications are in no way indicative of the advisors, future performance, or any individual client's investment success. No award, ranking, or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of Black Mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www.blackmammoth.com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to effect or attempt to effect transactions and securities, or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors, including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy, and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and estate planning information discussed is general in nature and is provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.