Antidepressants, Explained Clearly - Part 2

A four-hour swim through rough seas sets the tone for resilience, and we channel that grit into a clear-eyed tour of antidepressants that actually help people get their lives back. We pick up our series on depression treatment with a practical, plain-English guide to SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, and atypicals—how each class works on serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine, what side effects to expect, and why some meds also ease nerve pain or insomnia. If you’ve ever wondered why results take two to six weeks, we break down the brain science: receptors need time to recalibrate and new pathways to form, which is why steady dosing and patience pay off.

We share how we approach titration, when to hold, when to adjust, and how pharmacogenomic tools like Genesight can reduce trial-and-error by flagging side-effect risks up front. You’ll hear why bupropion can boost energy and focus with fewer sexual side effects, when mirtazapine’s sedation and appetite increase are a feature not a bug, and why TCAs and MAOIs still matter for tough, treatment-resistant cases. Most importantly, we explain why medication is a tool, not the destination: better outcomes come when meds lower symptom intensity and therapy builds lasting skills—sleep, exercise, reframing, and relationship repair.

We also get candid about the real-world mess: insurance hurdles that delay payments and care, and how clinics navigate those roadblocks to keep patients supported. It’s an unfiltered, compassionate look at what works, what to watch for, and how to advocate for the help you deserve. Press play to get smarter about your options, prepare for part three on myths and misconceptions, and take a step toward relief that lasts.

If this helped, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs clarity, and leave a quick review to help more listeners find solid mental health guidance.

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Change your thinking, change your life!
Laugh hard, run fast, be kind.  
David R. Wright MA, LPC, CHT
The Motor City Hypnotist

Transcript

Live Show Kickoff & Housekeeping

SPEAKER_02 0:00

In this episode of the Motor City Hypnotist Podcast, we are continuing our podcast on antidepressant medications. Lots. We had part one last episode, or we're doing part two today. We'll hopefully get through it. If not, we may have a part three, but that's okay. If you haven't listened to part one, you can jump back an episode and listen, and then you'll be caught up, or you can just listen to it after this one. You'll get the information either way. You'll collect it all. And as usual, we're giving away free stuff. Hang in there, folks. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

This sounds like something for the authorities in Detroit. Well, joke's on you. I'm living to 102. The men die at the city of Detroit.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Guys like this can't take over here out of Detroit.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Spawn in the hellfire's emotional. Take him to Detroit.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Detroit!

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Stationed in Drambui. It's worse than Detroit. We did not have as a unit the confidence that we felt like we needed to beat Detroit. Let's go to Detroit.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Now you're talking, brother.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

I don't think so. He plays for Detroit now. Do they have many farms in Detroit? Detroit to Michigan. I go to school, I know where Detroit is. Get ready for the motor city hypnotist David R. Wright, originating from the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. He has hypnotized thousands of people from all over the United States. David R. Wright has been featured on news outlets all across the country and is the clinical director of an outpatient mental health and hypnosis clinic located just south of Detroit, where he helps people daily using the power of hypnosis. Welcome to Motor City Hypnist, David O. Wright.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

We are here in the podcast Your Voice, Southfield Studios, the palatial studios. David, hanging out on a Monday night doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

I gotta tell you that yes, we had a small sabbatical over the holidays. We did. January was a little bit bumpy getting together. Uh-huh. But I'll tell you, Monday nights are back. Yes, Monday nights, we are here.

Tours, Gigs, And Free Hypnosis Guide

SPEAKER_02 2:28

And those of you who don't know, we broadcast live on Facebook Live on the Motor City Hypnotist Facebook page or on the podcast your voice Facebook page. Check out either of those sources. You can watch us live, join in the discussion, ask questions, be a part of the show. We'd love to have you just check in and say hello. Say hi. Yeah, say hi. If you're in, if you're watching, if you're on Facebook Live, drop a note. Let me tell you, folks, where you can find me. My website is motorcityhypnotist.com. Prom and grad season are upon us. It's only a couple months away. I'm already booked for three weekends in April. In fact, I'm going to Iowa three times in three weeks. Good luck. Saturday, Saturday, Saturday.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Well, your wife is going to love the alone time.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Typically, what I do is I leave Saturday morning. I go do my show, which is typically at midnight or 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. And then I will always just go back to my hotel, pack up, and start driving because I'm not tired at that point. I'm just done a show and I'm just kind of amped up. So I'll drive for maybe a couple, three hours and then just kind of find a place to take a nap. But you gotta give Kendra some of that alone time, dude. Oh well, she's well, our our son and his girlfriend are at the house all the time. So she's never alone now. So you need to let her go to the shows in Iowa. Yeah, she wants to do them. She can, yeah, absolutely. She can go with you. So these are booking up quickly. So if you have a post prom or a post grad party and you need entertainment, now's the time to book it. Motorcityhypnotist.com slash shows, I believe. Do it, do it, do it. Do it. My social media links, Facebook and YouTube, are both Motor City Hypnotist, and Snapchat, Instagram, and TikTok are Motor City Hypno H Y P N O.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Thank you.

Winner Of The Week: Ocean Rescue

SPEAKER_02 4:08

And as we've done every episode going back to number one, text the word hypnosis to 313-800-8510. Within a few moments, you'll get a text message with a downloadable PDF. It's a hypnosis guide that I wrote. It will give you some general information on hypnosis and how and why it works. And it will also give you a link to my Google business page where you can leave a review. All right. Review is much appreciated. It helps us out. Just take a time, you know, leave the review and whatever platform you're listening, iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever it is, leave a review on that platform too. Because that great greatly helps us, helps us get in front of more people and helps grow the show. All right. We're ready. Is it time?

SPEAKER_03 4:51

It is time.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

That's how winning it is done.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Is it who I think it is? No, it's not Lindsay Vaughn. Okay, this this story just kind of blew me away. A 13-year-old boy has been hailed a hero after swimming four hours through rough seas to rescue his family. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

He he swam four hours to rescue his family.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yes, a 13-year-old boy has been hailed a hero after swimming four hours through rough seas to rescue his family. All right, where did this happen? A family of four was enjoying a holiday in Australia's Australia's southwest coast near Quindeloop when strong winds blew their inflatable paddleboards out to sea. The boy was sorry, come on. But the boy was separated from his mom and two siblings before his canoe began to take on water. Okay. Wearing a life jacket, he began to swim against the wind towards the shore, knowing every second counted in a race to get help to save his family. Okay. Commander Paul Bresland with the volunteer organization Cape Naturalist Marine Rescue said that the boy swam for two hours with his life jacket on. And the brave fellow thought he's not going to make it with his life jacket on, so he ditched it. And he swam the next two hours without a life jacket. What the action said Breslin. I thought, mate, that is incredible. You might say it's dumb, but please go on. Once ashore, he successfully raised the alarm, and a multi-agency search and rescue operation was mobilized, including Western Australia's state water police and its rescue helicopter. The team provided detailed descriptions of the paddle boards, and within the hour, his family was rescued by boat, having drifted seven miles out into the Indian Ocean.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

In an inflatable raft?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Hold on. Paddleboards. They were on paddle boards.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

They were on paddleboards. Paddleboards. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

So not even a raft, just a you know, paddle board. When the rescuers arrived, the 47-year-old mother was struggling to keep her daughter eight and an eldest son 14 affixed to the paddle board in the choppy waters. Okay. Physically, she said, I'm struggling. I can't. But she just said they're looking her in the eye, and she just kept going and kept them together. Mr. Breslin said, adding she deserved enormous praise for her perseverance perseverance. ABC reported that the family were assessed at a local hospital and quickly discharged before taking the time to visit the rescue organization to thank them in person. Sure. Southwest police inspector James Bradley said the story highlights some important ocean safety aspects. All members of the family were wearing life jackets, a key positive. Wind speeds near shore should always be carefully monitored as well before going out on the water.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Okay, so I have questions. Yeah, we always do on these winners of the week. And the the young man who swam four hours, two hours with the life jacket, two hours without. He was 13. Yep. And the 14-year-old son stayed behind. Yep. To take care of mom and his sister. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Because mom was from from what I get, and maybe it's just reading into it, I think the 13-year-old drifted away from them and just wasn't part of the group anymore.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

On paddle boards. Yes. And uh in the uh in the Indian Ocean in the Indian Ocean near Australia. Yep. Because you used the word mate a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yes, they did say mate.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

I'm glad they're safe. I'm glad they're I'm so happy that they're alive and that they're safe. But why would you go on the Indian Ocean and paddle boards when you see the potentially the the weather that's coming in from the coast across?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

I have questions. I know, I know. And in in these situations, there are always questions. Like, how did how did you get into the situation to begin with?

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Darwin's going watch this, and God is saying, No, that's not happening.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

But if we if if it all made sense, we'd never have these stories. So you're right. I mean, I'm glad they're alive. Yeah, I super, super.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

It's cool. And and but I I just I have to question the decisions that you made.

Pivot To Antidepressants Part Two

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I know. I mean, look at most of the people who get stuck, or I mean, you I'm not looking you in the eye for a reason. No, no, I don't know. I feel bad about my opinion. No, no, no, no. I I understand totally what you're saying. So, anyway, though, I can't I can't imagine swimming for four minutes, much less four hours.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Okay, so for him to swim for four hours, two with the life jacket, yeah, two without. So, what did that life jacket without that two hours without the life jacket? That's just like that that that's a I know it's crazy. Two hours for a 13-year-old for a 13-year-old child. Yes, yeah, I know. I'm I'm proud of him. I couldn't do it, neither could I, but I'm proud of him for sticking it out and doing the right thing for his family and saving them. Good job, but it's winner of the week. Yeah, that's how winning is done. I'll be honest with you guys. Yes, yes. Go ahead, go ahead. No, so back to it. Yeah, go ahead, do it. Oh, wait, wait. So, yeah, back to it. Sometimes I feel bad about my opinions and the decisions that are made in some of these winners of the week, and I'm so happy that you share that they're fine and that they're alive and that they're thriving. Yeah, uh maybe, yeah, but the point is, why? Why would you put yourself in that situation? I don't know.

SNRIs: What They Do And Why

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Well, I mean, I I'm but we can ask that every day. I I I mean, you walk out of the I talk to clients every day, yeah. And I'm like, why? I I I mean, just humans make humans make poor decisions in general, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

In general, that's yeah, fair. And we all make poor decisions at some point in our life, but you're on a freaking well, and these poor decisions could call could cause depression, and you know it might help with that, man.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Nice segue. Antidepressants, yeah, that's what we're talking about today. We're talking part two of antidepressant medications. Go ahead. So on the first one, we kind of described a little bit about what your brain, how it functions. We're talking about synapses and electrical impulses and neurotransmitters, and we covered the the the early days of antidepressants, which were kind of discovered on accident because they developed a drug for tuberculosis that had the side effect of improving people's mood and making them feel less sad and depressed. Right. So we talked about SSRIs. We mentioned the the free the three most popular ones, Prozac, Zoloft, and Lexapro, which were developed later on to work a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Under a lot of massive research and sure, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So the next class of medication that we're gonna start off with today is called SNRIs, SNRs, SNRIs, which stands for well, I'm gonna get there in a minute because it's not on this page. Hopefully, you know what? I don't even know what that initial stands for. I mean, I know it in my I know it in my head somewhere, but but it's not on my notes. So anyway, SNRIs work differently because they don't because SNRIs affect serotonin and norepinephrine. So whereas the SSRIs only block serotonin, the SNRIs affect serotonin and norepinephrine.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Serotonin and no epinephrine re-reptate inhibitors, re-uptake inhibitors. Re-uptake inhibitors.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

So it works the same way as an SSRI, it just works on two brain chemicals instead of one. If that makes sense, because it affects serotonin and norepinephrine. SSRIs just work on serotonin.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

The SNRIs are also around the nerve pain, chronic nerve pain.

TCAs: Older Meds, Bigger Side Effects

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yep, I yep, I'm gonna get there. Okay, yep. So examples of SNRIs, and these are our these are fairly newer medications over the past 20, 30 years, effects or symbolta. Those those are two major ones because nor epine norepinephrine is involved in these medications, uh it involves alertness and activity. So, what happens with SNRIs? It can sometimes help with motivation and can relieve certain chronic pain conditions. So there's another use for these, other than being just strictly an antidepressant, but they can also be used for pain management. Interesting. Yes, another class, uh TCAs. Now, these are older class, tricyclic, and we talked about that in in the last episode. We mentioned that, so you can go back and kind of get a review on that. But these are older classes of antidepressants, and and examples of these include amatriptyline and nortriptaline. So these affect multiple neurotransmitters, but they also interact with other receptors in the brain, which leads to more side effects like dry mouth, constipation, weight gain, and possibly cardiac concerns. Holy crap. So they're used, but typically they're not widely used because of the side effects. So they're really not the first choice in most cases.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

What I find really interesting is the commercials that we see today, whether it be about antidepressants, whether it be about your heart health, whether it be about you know, anything, they they list out the side effects. Yep. And they read them out. Yep. They have to now.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yes, yes. It I I I mean, it's like any other medication. You you get a whole list, you get the pamphlet, you get the the paper thing with your with your prescriptions when you get them. You get that on the but on television, yeah. Oh no, all of these commercials will state that.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Yeah, it's just it's amazing to me that people will put themselves through these side effects to feel better.

unknown 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Here's the thing, and and I do understand be and again, I I'll give you anecdotal information because because I can't point to a study per se, although I could look one up probably. But with a lot of my clients that are severely depressed, and and when you're severely depressed, often you're suicidal, often you self-harm. Yeah, often you you can't hold a job or relationships, or you can't interact with your family. So compare that to gaining 10 or 20 pounds. Yes, neither one is ideal, but one is much preferable outcome than the other one.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

And we touched on that in the last episode. What is more important? Yes. And and and I totally understand, and I and I appreciate that opinion.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Well, and the way I kind of counter that with clients who may have these concerns, because they'll say to I've even had clients say, Well, I I don't want to take this medication, it'll make me gain weight, it'll, it'll, you know, I'm worried about the side effects. I'm like, but listen, over time we we can work on the side effects. But if if you're feeling less depressed, you're going to be more motivated. That that enables us to start working on these other things that could come up as side effects.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

So let me ask you a question. Yeah. You put somebody on a medication and they may have to wean off a different medication, which can take two to four weeks, and they're taking a new medication that could take two to four weeks for it to actually start working. Yes. Why isn't there something that helps now? It's it's Is it the brain chemistry?

Side Effects Vs. Severe Depression Risks

SPEAKER_02 16:58

It's the brain chemistry. And with antidepressants, that there that it builds up in your bloodstream over time until you get to that full dosage. But Dave, I'm depressed now. Right. But here's the problem. So so let's take an uh let's take uh just random medication. Say the starting dose is 25 milligrams. Doctors start with that. We want to make sure there are no side effects. We want to make sure that this is something that's going to work. Then that that initial dose is typically about a month or so, give or take, uh, to get into your system and build up in your bloodstream. At that point, we we come back and we revisit it and say, Yeah, is there any effect from this? Do you see any difference? Or if there is, then we can up that dose.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

We're gonna slowly get you hooked on a drug. That's why they start you with such a low dose. Right. And then if it's not working, they'll up the dose.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

So so here's the things, and and and this is a thing a lot of clients kind of struggle with, and but but that's why I'm honest.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

As as someone on the outside looking in who doesn't take medication, I'll be totally honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

No, that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

I I find it really difficult to understand the increase, the the starting dose, but then the increase to get you more hooked on said, well, it always depends because you're only going to increase it if the symptoms are not fully managed, subsiding, managed, or correct.

Titration: Why Relief Takes Weeks

SPEAKER_02 18:26

And and here's the other thing I say to people that psychotropic medication is a little bit of a crapshoot because you we're you see we're we're hitting on all these different classes of antidepressants that work different ways. Yes, yes, so and everybody's physiology is different. So there is something within the last 10 years that has become super helpful. And this is not even in my show notes, but I want to divert to this because I think it's very important. There's a test, it's a blood test called gene site testing. That's that's the name of this test. And what it does, it will they analyze your blood and they determine which medications you're more likely to have side effects from rather than other medications. I'm I'm happy that they're that those exists. For example, gene site testing, you'll get the results back, and it may say Zoloft and Prozac are in the green, but Symbolta and effects are in the red. So automatically we know these are these might be more problematic than these based on that blood test.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Finally, so that has that has helped kind of narrow down at least the class of medication we should be using with the amount of technology enhancements that we've had over the past 15 years. I'm I'm I'm I'm glad that we can now determine which medications are going to work right potentially better.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

It it it's it's more so which medications are not going to interfere as far as side effects go.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Okay, side you say side effects, yes, but but when I say when when I'm looking at it, I don't want the side effects. No, yeah, well, absolutely. I want the medication I'm taking to do what it's supposed to do without the side effects, without the side effects, exactly. And that's what I'm that's what I'm happy about. We have the technology to know what that is. Now, do I want to see the technology grow to say this is exactly the medication that will treat such a city? That would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

That's what I'm looking at. And I I don't I don't believe that's ever gonna happen. I I just think the physiology is so different and and everybody's and processing of this medication is different as well.

Genesight Testing And Personalization

SPEAKER_03 20:33

And I'm very naive about this. And I'll I'll admit it from the hunt from from day one, but yes, I would love to have a medication that will tell me this will help from day one, right? Because that's what everyone knows wants to know. Well, sure wants something to that's gonna fix me.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Well, and that and that is the challenge, and and and again, I I want to be totally honest up front.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Again, when psychotropic medication is is not an exact science, it's just not, it's not because everyone's brain chemistry is different, right? We all have our synapses fire on different levels in many different ways, whether you're awake or asleep.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

And you could have depends on your gender, it depends on your weight, it depends on on your diet, it depends on uh your ancestor medication, your ancestors, your hereditary. I I mean there's so many factors driving this. Right. And is there a perfect world out there?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Probably in a different universe. Maybe I believe that would be great if it if we could do that for sure. But I but we we have to deal with the hand that's dealt to us.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

So we're gonna back up a little bit and talk about the next class, which which are the first antidepressants developed, the MAOIs. So the way these work is they block the enzyme monoamine oxidase. This enzyme breaks down neurotransmitters in the brain, which could cause depression. Like the blocking of neurotransmitters. That this breaks it down like it, like it dilutes it.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

If that makes sense. It does. That might be not scientifically accurate, but but for the description, that fits. Dilute works. Yes. But here are the here here are the kind of the downfall of MAOIs is that there are definite dietary restrictions when you're taking this medication because there's dangerous interactions with foods that contain tyramine.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Like like grape grapefruit and pineapple and those types of okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

And and typically MAOIs are usually reserved for people with treatment-resistant depression, which means we've tried other medications or we've tried other approaches. Well, there comes the T well yeah, but the MAOI is better than the ECT. I mean, if we're getting to it. You're right, you're right. So there's another class called the atypical antidepressants. These really don't fit into the other categories because they work a little bit differently. And there are a couple of examples of an atypical antidepressant. One is well butrin, it's a very common medication. Many people are taking this. This works more on dopamine and norepinephrine, and it tends to have few fewer sexual side effects. And the good thing on well butrin, it could increase your energy. Okay. So there are positives for that. There might be some weight loss involved there.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Remaron. I've never heard that's the brand name. It's mertazepine. I've is the scientific name. I've never heard that term. Yep. So remoran can is a is an antidepressant that can be sedating, which means it could cause you drought drowsiness. But what it also does is it is it remoran is used a lot for people who who have I'm I'm I can't think of a general thing, people who need to gain weight. Like so Remaron is sedating, but it increases appetite. So people that take Remeron end up being more hungry in case they have like you mean like supermodels? I mean, could be. Yeah, because you're just saying from the ballimia or whatever. Okay. So so Remaron can be sedating and increase appetite, and it can be helpful. Those things can be helpful in certain situations. So don't take a GLP one with it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

All right.

MAOIs And Tough Food Interactions

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yeah. So here's the thing. And and again, here's here's the thing that everybody asks do they work, or is this just a bunch of horse shit? You know what I mean? Because clients will say this, this is just a pill.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

What's it gonna do? I don't know. And so that that is a as a as a individual, my opinion. I have a problem with people that who just prescribe medications to prescribe medications to treat one symptom. It happens, unfortunately, a lot, right? It happens a lot, and and next thing you know, you're on another medication, and then you're on another medication. Next thing you know, you're on 14 different medications.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Well, and I do have clients that I've seen that come in and they say, I'm on this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and they'll count out like eight or nine medications. That and that's and I'm like, we we need to take a step back and reevaluate for sure. I I mean there's there's Matt, I I'm agreeing with you. There's a lot of doctors that over-prescribe there are pill mills all over this area.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Those those exist. I wouldn't say over-prescribe, I would say treat and street, right? Because they just want to get to get the person treated and see them out the door, sure, and then get paid by said insurance company. And that's the that's a big problem.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

And and that and that can be a problem not just in psychotropic medications with anything. I I don't know if you you've you've had that read that story about that doctor who was who is which one they're doing cancer treatments on people who didn't have cancer.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yes, I did see that. It's ridiculous. Yes, it's it but it pulls at my heart strings, I know, and it makes me very sick.

Atypicals: Wellbutrin And Remeron

SPEAKER_02 26:01

And and in in unfortunately, just I mean, you're you're gonna in any profession, you're gonna have these one-offs who are just unethical and you know. But here's the thing: back to the question do they work? Yes, they do work for moderate to severe depression, and research has been done, a lot of research, and and and I can I can reference some studies maybe in a later podcast, but they show that antidepressants far exceed placebos in study groups. Oh, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

So so we know they work. The the the medical treatment is sound, it's there. Yes, it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

And who's prescribing it, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

That too.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

So here's the thing, and and we we talked about this, we mentioned this just a little bit early. For mild depression, Matt, therapy alone can be effective without the medication. And I always say to my clients, medication is not a solution, medication is a tool.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Medication is a tool that can help us get to a point where you can more effectively utilize therapy, and that's why I appreciate what you do, what you do, because you get to the point where okay, I see where you are, I see you. Yep, I hear you. Yep. Why don't we walk down this aisle to find out base roots and then treat those base roots from ground up? Right. I mean, that that would be my preference for every client.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

And that should be everybody, but again, let me just let me put my therapist hat on for a minute. The challenge with that is that when somebody's severely depressed, they're not able to work on anything, we're not able to talk. That I get that it it prevents them from processing the feelings they need to process.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

And and I appreciate that and I get that. But if they want to get better, they want to get better. Yep. And if they're in front of you for a reason, if they're seeing somebody for a reason, they're there to get better. And they and it takes a very big person to accept. Right. Acceptance is a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

So I will say again, and and just to re-emphasize this if you're seeing a doctor and they're prescribing you psychotropic medications and you're not in therapy, consider doing that because you got to do one in our clinic, hand in hand, in our clinic, we have a psychiatrist, Dr. Singh. He prescribes psychotropic medications. But our policy at our facility is that if you see Dr. Singh for medication, you have to see a therapist. Yeah, that's because medication's not the answer, it's simply a tool to help you get the most out of therapy.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

So let me open up a Pandora box Pandora's box. All right. So do insurance company insurance companies do they recognize that? As far as if you're being diagnosed or if you're if you are being prescribed a psychotropic medication, therapy has to be in the insurance companies.

Do Antidepressants Actually Work

SPEAKER_02 29:04

They'd rather you not do it because they don't have to pay for it. For no, no, no, that's insurance companies. See now, let me tell you something, and I'm gonna call this out online publicly. Molina Healthcare, it's a Medicaid sponsored plan. Uh-huh. Starting in the mid middle of middle to the end of November, I noticed our revenue of 2025. Just this past year. Of 2025.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

A couple months ago. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So right near the end of November, I'm like, huh, our revenue seems to be a little bit down this month. Uh-huh. We get into December. A couple weeks in, I'm like, hey, our revenue's down even more. We're not getting consistent payments from Melina. And we would get checks every day from them. Come to find out, long, very long story short, they changed their billing codes as far as just the way the billing needed to be done. So is that on you or the biller? Well, we were never notified. That's the whole thing. There was never any we never received notification. There was never anything sent. There was nothing in my Facebook groups that I'm a part of that that that that a lot of clinic owners are part of. So, no, this came out of the blue, and we didn't realize it till like a month in when we realized what is going on with these payments. We get the statement last month. Do you know how much they owe us right now? I can only right now.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I don't want to put a I don't want to put a dollar I'm gonna tell you. I just$58,000. Okay, so you put a dollar amount on there. Yes, it's exorbitant. Yes, and they change their rules without notifying their practitioners.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

So we have hundreds of claims that have been denied and just sitting out there to now that we have to correct and rebuild. Well, correcting is easy. Rebuilding well, because again, we have to wait for another billing cycle. We submit it, it could take weeks to get it to get it paid. So, so that's the chance the and it and again when I talk about insurance companies, and and I'm I'm gonna say this right out, they don't give a rat's ass about people.

Medication As A Tool With Therapy

SPEAKER_03 31:03

They only care about not paying. If you're gonna say that out loud, I appreciate you for that. And and I appreciate and I appreciate the position that you're in. Yep, there's a there's a gray area, they should have done X, you're doing A. There has to be an M N L O P in there somewhere for everyone to come together. You would think, and it's just not happening. Nope.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

So who's at fault? They are okay. The insurance company is. We've stopped taking a couple of insurance companies specifically because they meridian, and I'm gonna say them out loud. Meridian insurance is a Medicaid plan and Aetna Better Health, which is also a Medicaid plan. Those are big names. We Meridian audited, and now it's it's not unusual. I've talked about this on the podcast before. It's not unusual for insurance companies to do a random audit of cases. It's fine. Meridian, we Matt, I'm not kidding. The stack of paper was over a foot high. I believe it. Thousands of pages, and then they asked me to mail them to them. All right, you're these records, these client, these these privileged medical records, they wanted me to mail them in the mail. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, so you are one practitioner out of hundreds of thousands that are out there. Yeah, they change their internal policies. That that happens. That is the corporate world. So so take 58,000 times up by hundreds, right? And who's covered, who's not, who hasn't paid their premiums, who hasn't done this. There it's just a absolute what is that a card castle? Yeah, house of cards. House of cards, yeah. It it breaks down at the end of the day. The responsibility falls on the insurance company. And at the end of the day, who is absolutely responsible for the people they're treating? You you cannot stop doing what you're doing because you care about your patients, your your clients, the people that come and see you on a day-to-day, week to week, month to month basis. You want to make sure that they are treated properly. Yeah, absolutely. And if you have to go into the red, you will. Will there be people out there that don't agree with that? Absolutely.

Insurance Friction And Access To Care

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Because well, because honestly, we could have said to all our Molina clients, hey, they're not paying us. Sorry, can't see you anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

And that's why I appreciate your practice more than anything else, is because you do the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Well, and it's tough to do the right thing because we we have been super tight financially because of this. I mean, think about that. You you're you take 60 grand of revenue away in a couple of months. Yeah, yeah, we're we're feeling it.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

We're in for sure. We're in February. I know. This happened over the holidays, yes. Okay, yes, see, that's a big problem. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I know it's the it's the end of the year, they change their billing cycle. We could do a whole sidebar on just insurance companies, and and it would be, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

I know, I know we're talking about antidepressants, and we have to get back to that. But you people that are that are going through depression, they have to think and look take the blinders off. It's not just about you, this is about everybody that's involved with anyone that has a doctor. They are suffering, they are they need assistance, they need help, they need medication. It's it is the most convo convoluted industry I've ever been a part of.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

This this Matt, this is the only industrialized nation that has health care for profit. That's a fact. That's a fact. It is. And and and and and believe me, I and I'm not I want to be very careful when I say this. I do not condone violence of any type. Absolutely. I do not condone terminating anyone's life. But you can see why this United Healthcare CEO was was killed. Yeah. Because people are just fed up. They're they're just they're they're exhausted, they're they're just tired of things just being there. Again, that this we could we could I could rant on this for hours, but we could.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yes, we could. And and the fact that the person who was allegedly responsible for said act of CEO of United Healthcare, he has mental issues. Yes, and were they treated and were they treated appropriately? That's a great question. And it could and any defense attorney is going to just lick their chops and just go after said insurance company, and it's because this this individual was probably on some medication at some point in time.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

It it's it's just goes back to money and power controls the narrative. Yeah, that's that's the problem. I so let's get back because that's just one section because we're going to go way off. Why do they work? Why do antidepressants work? Yes, they do. And we talked about well, and we mentioned this quickly. I don't know if it's last session matter or this one, because you said it doesn't have an effect immediately. I was this it often takes two to six weeks to notice improvement. So here's why it's not about just getting that medication into your system and having it change something. What happens in the brain is that you have to train the receptors to behave differently, and oftentimes you have to create new new neuropathways with this medication. That's why it takes time to have an effect.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

I I go back to folks that have had strokes. And when you have a stroke, certain areas of your brain, they they for lack of a better term, they die. And your brain has to rewire itself to pick up a fork, to put a ski boot on, to I I I watched an individual within eight, nine months go from a stroke to skiing in Montana. Yeah, because the brain rewired itself. It does. The brain, every medication that we talked about this set the this episode in the last episode, it's all about the brain, yeah, and how it responds and how it helps us to cope on a daily basis, right? Everyone's brain is different, yeah. And that's why this industry, that's why these medications, it's so convoluted as to what works and what doesn't. You're right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

So here's the thing, and and we met and I and I hit on this, it's in my notes, and I want to repeat this. The best outcomes often come from combination of therapy and medication. Thank you, not just one or the other. Medication can reduce the intensity of symptoms, which will allow you to better utilize therapy. That is, and that's our belief. That's that's what our again, that that that's what our our guideline is in our clinic. If you see doctors saying you have to see a therapist because you're getting medication, it's one in the it's it's one and two. Yep. So let me let me just check something here. God tell me we're gonna do no, we're gonna do a part three. Okay, because no, no, there's a lot more. We we have we have a lot more, just what's very useful for people. So so we are gonna do a part three of antidepressant medications. I want to get into like myths and misconceptions and things like that. Did you say for you? Myths, myths, m-y-t-hyths and misconceptions, myths and misconceptions. Okay, yes, absolutely. And yeah, we there's more stuff to cover, so we're gonna do a part three, all right. So, for today, that is the episode. This was before we take off, this was intense. Somebody needs a home mini was last episode. This one is mittens, mittens, mittens needs a home. Who's that? Oh mittens, look at those ears. I was trying to see the feet to see if they actually have. So I had a dog that was that was totally black and had white paws. Uh we called her socks, of course, of course, and I tried to look at the that back paws kind of telling a little bit, but I wanted to see the front paws.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Yeah, I see a little socks on the back paws. Look at oh my goodness, Mittens. She's adorable.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Mittens was born in October of 2025. She's only a few months old. Shepherd pit bull mix.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Okay, do you see that? I do. I see the shepherd, I see the pit bull in the ears.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Really?

SPEAKER_03 39:50

The shepherd face, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

The face, I don't get either one from the face.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

I get the shepherd face, but the the ears are definitely pit bull.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

She's a female, estimated to be 50 to 60 pounds, full grown. That's a beautiful dog. Dog friendly, yes, cat friendly, yes, kid friendly, yes. Did you say yes to the cat friendly? Give me that picture. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

There we go. Oh, she's adorable. Yeah, see, I would take her home in a sense. Yes, absolutely. I want every single dog that you've shown.

Why Brain Changes Take Time

SPEAKER_02 40:19

I know. So Mittens Mittens needs a home.

unknown 40:21

God bless.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

She's three months old. She wants a place to call her forever home. Please go get her. Detroit dogrescue.com slash adopt. All righty, folks. We'll be back next week, next Monday evening. Join us on Facebook Live on the Motor City Hypnotist Facebook page or the podcast Your Voice Facebook page to join in the conversation, ask questions, just be a part of the show. And we'll we'll address antidepressant medications part three.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

I love this. All right.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Go on. So that's it for today. Change your thinking, change your life, laugh hard, run fast, be kind. We'll see you next time.