Eating for Strength, Energy & Longevity After 40 – with Dr Matthew Nagra

Feeling confused about plant-based eating, protein, meat, and all the noise online? You’re not alone.

In this episode, Dr Orlena is joined by naturopathic doctor and nutrition myth-buster Dr Matthew Nagra for a calm, science-led conversation that cuts through the confusion around vegan, plant-based, and meat-heavy diets.

Together, they explore what the research actually tells us — not influencer opinions, diet trends, or fear-based headlines.

You’ll hear:

• Why the strongest evidence consistently points to plants as the foundation of long-term health
• How much protein you really need — and how to get it on a plant-based diet without stress or extremes
• Why controversial diets (like carnivore) gain attention despite weak evidence
• What to make of eggs, dairy, soy, ultra-processed foods, omega-3s, and supplements
• How to stop chasing “perfect nutrition” and focus on what genuinely improves health and longevity

If you want clarity, flexibility, and confidence in how you eat — without dogma or overwhelm — this episode will help you see nutrition through a much calmer, evidence-based lens.

Connect with Dr Matthew Nagra

IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.matthewnagra/

Website: https://drmatthewnagra.com/ 

Watch Stop Dieting Start Thriving: https://go.drorlena.com/video 

Sign up for the Stop Dieting and Start Thriving Video:

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Looking for support? Book a free call with Dr Orlena:

https://go.drorlena.com/book-a-call/

Transcript

Dr Orlena : [00:00:00] fit and fabulous with me, Dr. Orlena. I'm super excited today 'cause we are gonna talk all about the vegan diet, plant-based, based, so many exciting things to talk about. Welcome, welcome, Dr. Matthew Nagra. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Hi. Thanks for having me. 

Dr Orlena : Do you wanna just start by introducing yourself? 'cause I know that you have an amazing following on Instagram, but I also know that not everybody knows who you are.

So do you wanna just start by telling people a little bit about yourself please? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. I'm a naturopathic doctor, practicing in Vancouver Canada, here. I focus a lot on nutrition and cardiometabolic health, so things like heart disease, diabetes and so on. And I have a big interest in just, correcting the record on all of the nutrition myths and misinformation out there.

And so I spend a lot of time on social media really focusing on that. People send me all sorts of clips saying that they're confused about something that somebody said or unsure about it. And so I try to put out some content just responding to those. 

Dr Orlena : Yeah, you have an amazing Instagram account and number one, kudos to you because I just cannot get [00:01:00] into those like debates with people.

But you know your stuff really well, which I think is why you are a really good resource for people because you just seem to be able to go, yeah, there's this study and there's this study and understand things. And to be honest, I know that there are some things that are controversial. I dunno about you, but when I was at medical school, people always had this idea that when everybody says the same thing, aspirin is good for, if you've had a heart disease, then there's really strong evidence for it.

But when everybody's saying something different, it means that it's not as clear cut. And I think that's where people get really confused, fused. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. And there's this idea of, it's a fallacy called like false balance where. Even if the consensus, the over all scientific consensus says one thing.

If there's enough loud voices on the other side online anyway, and even if they're the minority in the general scheme of things, it can make it seem like it's confusing. Like we actually don't have the answers here, when in reality the science actually supports one side a lot better than the [00:02:00] other. But we get this sort of idea that, oh, maybe it's not clear cut.

Dr Orlena : Yeah, so I think the carnival diet comes into that correct me if I'm wrong, but like I have been promoting plant-based for a long period of time and I am a bit confused as to why people think that the Carnival diet is a good idea. So perhaps you can put both or just tell us straight. No, there's no good news there.

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, for one, there's no good evidence supporting it. The limited research we have on a carnivore diet so far doesn't look very promising. We saw in the, famed carnivore study by researchers outta Harvard that's often cited by that camp. We actually saw coronary artery calcium scores go up in the people that had them before and after, but they tend to focus instead.

And this is where some of the like cherry picking comes in. People promoting the diet will focus on Oh, but people said that they felt better or people stop taking their medications and it's it's not clear did they stop taking their medications 'cause they were getting better or did they stop taking their medications?

'cause some carnivore influencer told them they don't need it, yeah. There, there's a lot of. [00:03:00] A lot of stuff gets skewed in a very favorable way towards that diet camp. When in reality if we look at the more objective markers that we have, it's not good news at all at this point. 

Dr Orlena : Yeah. So that's definitely one that isn't confusing.

So do you wanna start by telling us why plant forwards? I know we can go from plants to vegan, but let's just start with plants. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. So the, there was a large review out of, I believe it was 2020 at the time, the largest review of studies on nutrition and mortality ever done, and might still actually hold that title where one of, or some of the members of the dietary guidelines advisory committee did this massive review and found that across the board, across populations.

The foundations of a healthy diet were predominantly plants. It was things like whole grains, fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds, legumes, and if including animal products. It was specific kinds like low fat and fermented dairy products or fish versus like the red and processed meats, [00:04:00] which were best limited.

And those led, those were the sort of the foundational aspects that led to a reduction in overall mortality risks. So a lower risk of dying earlier. Now. Within that, there's a lot of different variations that you can have. You can have that plant, exclusive vegan, diet, or you could have a more Mediterranean diet and still fit that mold.

There is flexibility there when it comes to the health outcomes. Now people will choose to be vegan for ethical reasons, and that's a completely valid reason. It's why I'm vegan. But the, when it comes to the health, there are certain foundational aspects that we know quite well, and then there's a little wiggle room around the edges.

Dr Orlena : Okay. So in terms of plant to vegan, you are actually vegan for health, for ethical reasons rather than health re reasons. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, I would say I initially made the change for health reasons, in part because for me, drawing a hard line is easier than giving myself wiggle room. I find that if I allow X amount of something, then it's gonna turn into two times that, three times that over time.

Whereas if I [00:05:00] draw a hard line, it's just easier for me to stick to that. Now at the same time, I also understand that if I were to have, a little bit of fish or a little bit of, low fat yogurt or something that's going to be fine. That's not gonna harm me. But I choose not to for the ethical reasons.

Dr Orlena : Perfect. And also environmental reasons if we're 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. 

Dr Orlena : Thinking of good reasons. So in terms of plant-based, I think in my mind we are definitely sure that plants are good, fiber is good for us. They've got antioxidants, they've got VIN vitamins and minerals. There's no doubt that plants are healthy for us, but I think where some people struggle is okay.

Do I have to be totally vegetarian or is there some room for a little bit of meat in there? I say this as a mother of four children who like to eat meat. They don't, we don't eat, actually eat very much meat, but there's this sort of balance of them constantly wanting to have meat and me going, yeah, meat's not good for you.

How much? How [00:06:00] much is, where's that balance? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. It comes down to the dose and then also risk tolerance. Now if we're looking at, say meats, there's also different kinds, like lean meat would be better than a fatty cut of meat just because the fatty cut's gonna have a lot more saturated fat, which isn't good for heart health.

But even lean meat tends to be worse than plant proteins based on the data that we have. If you're having that meat, let's say even lean. Once or twice a week, is that really gonna be problematic? From a health perspective, probably not. I don't see any good evidence to really support that.

But if it becomes, say, an average of a hundred gram serving a day, which is, really. It's 

Dr Orlena : a small 

Dr Matthew Nagra: amount. Yeah. Around a, yeah, it's around a deck of cards, size maybe a little more. If you're having around that on average every day, so maybe it's twice that amount, but every second day, that is where risk is very clear when it comes to colorectal cancer, when it comes to cardiovascular disease, and especially if you would otherwise be eating plant proteins and in its place because there's that loss of the benefit that you could otherwise be having.

And it if the risk [00:07:00] tolerance is really high, hey, maybe, but I would say for most people, if you're looking to minimize risk, keeping it to under a couple servings a week is probably a much safer bet. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. And in terms of why do we know why meat is so bad for us? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: So there's a number of of reasons that it may be one is the saturated, if that content, as I already mentioned, that can raise LDL cholesterol levels and increase cardiovascular risk.

But like I said, we still see risk in when using lean meats or adjusting for fat content of the meat. And that is possibly for a few reasons. For one, the dietary cholesterol in there. So animal products pretty much across the board with the exception of a few things like honey contain cholesterol.

And the cholesterol can impact your cholesterol levels. A bit, not as much as the saturated fat. And there are genetic differences between individuals as far as how they respond, but it has an impact and that can contribute to risk. And then there's other compounds in meat that can contribute to risk.

Things like he iron, for example. That is pro-inflammatory. It's [00:08:00] oxidated. It has been shown to promote. Cancer progression has been shown to promote atherosclerosis, at least in mechanistic studies. And so that may explain a part of the risk that we're seeing there. There's also other compounds, things like new five gc, which is a sort of carbohydrate like compound in meats that can actually increase risk potentially based on the mechanisms that we understand as well.

But at the end of the day, we. I couldn't break it down and tell you, Hey, this percentage of risk is due to this compound. This percentage of risk is due to that. We don't have that level of information. We just know that this package of the red meat does increase risk at a certain dose. And we know that there are a bunch of compounds in there that, based on the mechanisms we understand, are likely contributing to that risk in some way, shape, or form.

At the end of the day, you don't have to understand that level of detail in order to make a choice about it. We know that the package as a whole, which is what's important here contributes to risk 

Dr Orlena : And so what about dairy and eggs? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, so the, it gets a little more nuanced with both of those.

[00:09:00] Let's start with dairy. So dairy is a very broad category. You have milk, you have cream, you have butter, you have yogurts, you have low fat, you have high fat. And so you can't just treat them all the same. Generally speaking, I'd say butter, not the critis when it comes to heart disease risk. So I usually recommend people swap that out for a liquid plant oil, something like olive or safflower or canola or something like that.

Avocado oil's a good one. So that would be one that we can put to the side. And then when it comes to the other dairy products, generally speaking, and there may be some exceptions, the higher fat dairy products. Can increase risk, but the low fat and especially low fat fermented products do not or may even lower risk compared to certain foods.

And so if you're having dairy, I would suggest that people choose the, low fat yogurts and things like. Of that sort. Sorry, 

Dr Orlena : qua. We have quark here. Do you have quark? It's very low fat. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: I don't know what that is. 

Dr Orlena : It's it's a bit like yogurt, but it's called a cheese and 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Oh, 

Dr Orlena : Okay.

Like zero fat, but it's relative. The reason I buy it is 'cause it's okay. Reasonably high in [00:10:00] protein. Whereas everyone on the internet always talks about Greek yogurt. Greek yogurt here actually doesn't have much protein in it. So it's the same as milk basically. Anyhow. So in terms of, yeah, 

Dr Matthew Nagra: I can't say I've seen that.

It's funny enough I can't say I've ever heard that before, but

Dr Orlena : it's a German thing, so I don't know whether we have it here because it's German and we're in Spain, so perhaps that's why. But you were talking about dairy and high fat and fermented things. So thinking about I live quite close to France and France is renowned for its amazing cheeses that, have.

Mold and off, all of those kind of things. But they're also quite high in fat. So is that like 1.4 and one point against? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: So cheese is like how I mentioned there was, or I alluded to there being possibly some exceptions, even with the higher fat cheese is more in the middle. So it is higher in the fat content, even the saturated fat, but it doesn't seem to impact cholesterol levels or LDL cholesterol levels as much as other high fat dairy products like cream or butter.[00:11:00] 

The exact reason why I aren't fully understood, a part of it might be the calcium content, which binds some of that fat so you don't absorb it. Like there, there's all sorts of mechanisms that have been discussed and we actually don't fully understand it at this point. But it depends again, on what you're replacing it with.

If you're replacing it with, nuts or tofu those are gonna lower cholesterol compared to the cheese. But cheese is not gonna raise your cholesterol nearly as much as like fatty meats or butter. So it is closer to the sort of the middle as to where I would put it. 

Dr Orlena : And Greek yogurt, so here our Greek yogurt is about 10% fat, which is reasonably I guess that's not super, that's not like cream or butter, but yeah.

Where does that come? Middle? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah I'd probably put that around the middle as well. Versus say the non fab stuff. Okay. Or which would be much, much lower. 

Dr Orlena : And then moving on to eggs. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. So eggs is always a hot topic. Eggs. It's very much the same as sort of discussion with meat in a lot of ways because it comes down to the dose and the replacement.

So if you're looking at studies that, and the American Egg Board loves the site to study outta China, where [00:12:00] the high intake of eggs was if I recall, like if. A few a week or something like it was a small amount. And then the low intake was basically nothing. And so you're looking at, I think the difference, and again, I might be a little off on these numbers, but the difference between high and low was like a few eggs a week.

And in that case, yeah, you don't see that it's gonna increase risk. Now if you look at studies where they have a bigger contrast in intakes, where low intake is basically zero or close to zero and high intake is say one a day or more. At that point you do tend to see that there is an increase in risk.

But then we can go further and look at studies where there are substitutions done. If you substitute, say, red meat for eggs actually lower risk. But if you substitute plant proteins for eggs actually increase risk. So it again, always comes back to what are you replacing or eating it in place of?

And also how much are you consuming? So having a couple eggs a week, not really gonna do much one way or another. But if you're having them every day, it depends on what you're eating it in place of. 

Dr Orlena : That totally makes sense. So whilst we're on the topic of [00:13:00] protein, I think now is a good time to think about how much protein do we need?

And particularly like the cohort of people I who are listening to the podcast are women over 40. And we've got to that stage where everyone's telling us you need to eat more protein. And it's a bit like, how do I eat so much protein? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. And I've seen some crazy numbers thrown out there as far as how much protein to consume.

I would say the, one of the most evidence-based answers that I can give as far as what's a good target and this I think, extends to other demographics as well, not just that particular demographic is about 1.2 grams of protein. Per kilogram of body weight per day, so your weight in kilograms multiplied by 1.2.

That's roughly how many grams of protein to aim for as a minimum. You can go above that and I don't see any harm there now that is. Actually I don't know about where you are, but in America, that's the average protein intake actually. So a lot of people are hitting around that, although it does decline with age typically.

So maybe over, over a [00:14:00] certain age that people are falling short. That said, it's not overly difficult to hit those kinds of numbers in most cases, provided that you're centering your meals around a protein-rich food rather than say, counting the amount of protein. If you're having if you're having a.

Sandwich. Don't just make it a plain veggie sandwich. Throw some tofu or something on there. I love making sandwiches with smoked tofu. If you're having a bowl or perhaps a pasta, use a lentil pasta versus a regular wheat pasta that really jacks up the protein content. And perhaps this is something that I do as well and I really is if I'm having oatmeal, I'll actually throw a scoop of protein powder right in there.

And I think it helps it, flavor it and and also add that protein boost and makes it a little bit more filling as well. I don't think people need to necessarily hyper focus on the exact amount of protein, but if you're centering your meals around protein rich foods, like some of the ones I mentioned, it's gonna be pretty easy to hit that sort of target.

Dr Orlena : Yeah, I think the issue comes when people say I'm gonna be more healthy. I'm gonna be more plant-based. And then they cut out meat and then they don't know what to [00:15:00] replace the protein with. And so now they're just focusing on vegetables and they haven't got in their mind, yes, I need to make sure that I'm getting protein.

I'm eating vegetables. One of the questions I had for you, 'cause I saw that you actually shared what you were eating. Yeah. And you mentioned lentil pasta. So for me, my kids love pasta and I will often cook like some vegetable pasta, which has already got some beans and things in it. I will just often have lentils instead of lentil pasta.

Is there any benefit to lentil pasta or if you're just gonna eat the lentils, does it make any difference? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah I don't see that making a big difference. I just think that lentil pass is an easy way for somebody to get it in, provided they like the, texture and all that. Yeah. It's obviously a little bit different than wheat.

But another thing that people could do and I like to do is actually put lentils right in the sauce. That's a good one to make it, a little bit meatier and texture or even some of the veggie ground products out there. So where they have the say Satan based, veggie meats or whatever.

A lot of the veggie ground products tend to be very low in saturated fat relatively low in sodium as far as the plant-based meats go, some of the best ones out [00:16:00] there. So that's another option as well. 

Dr Orlena : Yeah, and I think people also, with the things like the texturized vegetable protein, people get a little bit, like I've heard people say, oh, that's highly processed, and it's where do we draw the line?

We need to eat something. So is that good because it's. A vegetable protein or is it bad because it's highly processed? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. Whether or not something's processed doesn't determine whether or not it's healthy. So if you look at ultra processed foods, for example, we have sodas, we have sausages, we have whole wheat breads and cereals.

We've got donuts and pastries in between and, pizzas and everything else. Or at least packaged pizzas. And they're obviously very different foods and they're gonna affect our health in very different ways. And when you break it down into their individual categories, you find that most of the risk from ultra processed foods is driven by the animal-based meats, like the processed meats and the sugary beverages.

Others like whole grain breads and cereals, actually lower risk of a lot of these cardiometabolic outcomes. They're actually healthy, yet they're all through process. And we can't just determine that something's unhealthy by virtue of it being [00:17:00] processed. In fact, they published a review in the summer of 2024 on plant-based meats versus the animal-based meats and the comparisons nutritionally and in the clinical trials that we have.

And we found that the plant-based meats tend to actually improve cardiovascular risk factors compared to the animal-based meats. Now, the animal based meats in a lot of cases are unprocessed. Yeah, but the processed plant-based meat tended to be better. And another thing that a lot of people point to is like protein powders.

Those are ultra process, yet nobody really bats an eye. And it's very interesting how that's the case, right? It's something that sort of has this health halo around it. And I think they are healthy and totally fine things to consume, but nobody brings up the processed argument when it comes to those and a lot of people are using them.

Dr Orlena : Yeah, absolutely. I do. I think actually people do, in terms of the protein bars, I think a lot of people are saying, oh, those bars, you have to be careful. 'cause they're, it's not just protein, they put so much other stuff into it. But the protein powder is normally, it depends by itself. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. Yeah. But even so the protein powder on its own is ultra 

Dr Orlena : process is 

Dr Matthew Nagra: processed, right? [00:18:00] That's the whole thing. Very processed. And yet that tends to get a pass. And so it's just something to think about. 

Dr Orlena : And so if you're getting a vegan protein powder, which I presume you are eating a vegan protein powder, I have tried hemp powder.

It tastes

Dr Matthew Nagra: yeah, I don't think it's 

Dr Orlena : very candy grass. I bought one by mistake and then I realized and I said, can I send this back? And they said no. And I slowly making my way through it. But there are better vegan protein powders. So yeah. Previously I've had a P one. Are there any that you recommend, like a mixture or does it make any difference?

Dr Matthew Nagra: So I'd say most of the ones that I tend to like, and I don't know if this is because of the protein source or other things that are done as far as texturizing and all that are generally P based. But I also find that P based proteins are some of the more common ones. So maybe that's why, pea based ones are good, soy based ones are good. There's a, there's brown rice proteins, there's a lot of 'em. I find that the hemp ones, all the hemp ones I've tried have been chalky and gross. But again, 

Dr Orlena : all type seeds are actually fine. I'm happy eating hemp seeds, but not when it's turned [00:19:00] into a powder.

I don't know when they turn it into a powder. It's just really not great. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, no, I would agree. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. So I think we have covered protein. A few things I wanted to ask about, thinking particularly about a vegan diet is Omega-3. So my understanding of Omega-3 is that, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's very good because it helps us.

It's anti-inflammatory, basically. It stops the inflammatory process and ideally we should get it from food. We are looking at oily fish. So what do we do? Number one, is that correct? And number two, what do you do if you're not eating oily fish? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: For one I don't know. I don't know why it would be ideal to get it from fish over, say a supplement other than maybe cost reasons.

Like from a health perspective, I don't see that provided that it is the component that is beneficial. Yeah. Now the EPA in there does have some anti-inflammatory properties. That's one of the fats. The DHA as far as I'm aware, not so much. But that's more for say, cognitive health.

However, I would say that the research isn't super strong in support [00:20:00] of their use as supplements in otherwise healthy people. So in people with like high blood pressure, high triglycerides, there might be some benefit. There's actually prescription grade like highly purified EPA in certain cases that is prescribed for treatment of high triglycerides.

And that has shown some good promise, but, and then for the cognitive function, when you start to see early signs of like cognitive decline and if supplements are started around then you might see some benefit as well as far as cognitive outcomes. But in otherwise healthy people, honestly, the research hasn't really shown much benefit.

And I would say it's not clear that there is, there's also some evidence that vegans up regulate their conversion of the Omega-3 a LA that's founded like blacks, g hemp and soy into the EPA and DHA. It's still debatable whether that's optimal or not. I would say this is an area where we just don't have all the answers yet.

And so I treat Omega-3 supplementation. If somebody did wanna say supplement from a vegan source, like an algae-based supplement as a precautionary measure, I stop short of prescribing it. Saying [00:21:00] that, Hey, this is something we need to do. Because I just don't think the evidence is super clear that there is benefit in otherwise healthy people.

With the exception of pregnancy. In pregnancy, we actually do see benefit for outcomes. 

Dr Orlena : That's really interesting actually. And I think that the world has now turned on inflammation as this, like when I went to medical school, we didn't really talk about inflammation in terms of heart disease and stuff.

Like obviously we talked about inflammation in terms of wounds, but it wasn't this do you know what inflammation is basically driving everything. Yeah. And now it is like inflammation is driving everything and everybody is I have to eat blueberries. I tell you what, I really wish I had shares in a blueberry farm because everybody has blueberries now.

And everyone is doing everything to reduce. Inflammation, but we can forget about Omega-3 is what I hear you saying, basically. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. I like I would just say we don't know, and anyone making really strong recommendations around them probably isn't basing that on good evidence at this point.

Okay. I would say it's a personal choice whether or not to supplement, of course. But I wouldn't write home about [00:22:00] the benefits until we have better data. It's more of a precautionary measure if people want to, and obviously you weigh the costs and everything against, the potential for benefit, potential for no benefit.

Dr Orlena : Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think one of the things comes down to how do we. How do I explain this? How do we like know what impact something has in terms of anti-inflammatory? Look, we can't really measure inflammation in our body all the time, and we can't really measure this thing will give you, three points of less inflammation and this thing will give you something else.

So I guess it's difficult to equate all of that. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, and I don't know that I don't suspect that the primary mechanisms, if there are benefits are driven by anti-inflammatory effects anyway, with Omega-3 I think there are much better other, like characterized mechanisms that they could be playing by.

So I don't even understand where that honestly comes from. Like what sort of evidence would be cited by people promoting it for that purpose. 

Dr Orlena : That's interesting. Here, before I wanted to ask you about magnesium, because I see everybody is talking about magnesium now, and apparently if we don't take magnesium supplements, we are really going [00:23:00] to just caulk over next week according to some influencers.

What's your view on magnesium? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: So there are some clinical use of magnesium, but especially on a plant-based diet, you're just very unlikely to be deficient or low in magnesium. It's extremely unlikely. A lot of plant foods, nuts and seeds and so on are loaded with magnesium and I don't see there being a lot of benefit to additional supplementation. Now there's, some evidence of using it in combination with other things for say, like migraine treatment or I know there's like some evidence, although it's mixed and not that strong around sleep quality. There might be specific reasons to consider supplementation, but most of the benefits from supplementation come because your magnesium status is low or intake is low.

And which is just isn't gonna be the case on most plant-based diets. So I don't know that it's something that I would blanket recommend, but there might be specific indications for it. 

Dr Orlena : I have to confess, the people that I've seen recommending it are also selling it. So I think that's a, and I'm glad that you mentioned nuts because I think nuts is something that a lot of people have fear over.

I [00:24:00] personally live off nuts. I eat so many nuts every single day. There is a big fear about how many calories, nuts have. Is that something people should be worried about? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: It's funny, they are very calorie dense, but we have multiple meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials now actually showing that they don't lead to weight gain.

And so while they are calorie dense, it seems to be that they're also filling enough that you don't end up overeating all of 'em. Now, they don't promote weight loss, so it's not like they're gonna help with that aspect. 

Dr Orlena : Yeah. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: But they don't seem to lead the weight gain because perhaps just people get too full on them too quickly and then don't end up overeating too much.

Dr Orlena : I don't know. I could definitely be a one person study because I, we have almonds here and I love almonds, and I think they're full of fiber. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. They're 

Dr Orlena : eat them lots. So switching it around a little bit, if I were to say to you, okay, we want to be as healthy as possible, what would be your top recommendations and I guess thinking about reducing our inflammation as well?

Dr Matthew Nagra: I would bring it back to the foundations of a [00:25:00] healthy diet like I talked about earlier. So I would look at. And we can get even more into the weeds talking about specific servings and all of that. But generally speaking, I like to make sure there are five things in the diet.

Fruits, veggies, whole grains, legumes, and nuts and seeds. Like those are the five sort of groups of foods that I like to get into the diet. Now, if you're talking about servings, yeah, you're probably three or more servings of whole grains, at least one or two of fruits. About three of veggies, at least one of the nuts and seeds and at least one of the legumes.

And that seems to be associated with some of the best long-term outcomes. Forget about markers of inflammation or even any other intermediate markers. I'm talking at the end of the day, lower risk of dying earlier. You know that, that's the bottom line here. Tho those seem to be really good targets to hit as 

Dr Orlena : far as those outcomes.

So I have to confess, I don't think I eat that many whole grains. I do eat oats for breakfast. What is included in whole grains and what do they give us? Because my understanding is, okay, they're high in fiber, but if we're getting our fiber from say, other vegetables, does it [00:26:00] matter? Do we also have to have whole grains?

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, so whole grains include oats as you mentioned, but whole wheat products, a whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, quinoa, millet, sorghum, buckwheat. You go on and on. And there may be some unique benefits to like cereal fibers or grain fibers. It's not clear, but that's where we see some of the strongest associations with the health outcomes.

But that also might be because that's where most people get most of their fibers from grain. So it's hard to tease those apart. And then there are also phytochemicals in a lot of these foods that vary between food groups. They can vary within food groups as well, but. Grains might contain certain phytochemicals that you aren't really gonna get much of from vegetables or from nuts.

And so I still like to recommend that variety if possible. And getting oats in, that's one of the best ones that you can have for sure. So you're definitely doing pretty well there. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. And I do have quinoa in the cupboards, so I will just make sure that I eat some of it. So diet.

Anything else on our list of how to live the longest? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Exercise. Exercise is a obvious one. 

Dr Orlena : It [00:27:00] for exercise we do. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: So there's. There's some benefit if we look at like the nurses health study and health professionals follow up study, there is some benefit to resistance training, but it flattens out pretty quickly.

So if you go from zero resistance training to even once a week, you see a pretty big benefit there. And then as you increase beyond that, you get diminishing returns. With aerobic exercise, you actually get benefits. Up to higher levels of exercise. If you were to say be, create your perfect program, that really hits a lot of the major benefits.

I think resistance training a couple times a week, which is good enough to build some muscle and strength or at the very least, maintain, once a week you can maybe maintain as well but twice a week to build. And then resistance training, I'm sorry, aerobic training, cycling, running. Dancing, swimming, whatever you enjoy.

Yeah. A few times a week also is pretty reasonable. And putting all that together seems to lead to best outcomes 

Dr Orlena : and getting those high intensities as well, rather than just walking everywhere. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You wanna do a little bit more vigorous or at least we'll call it moderate intensity activity, which [00:28:00] walking, unless it's very brisk walking, wouldn't really qualify for.

Dr Orlena : Perfect. Perfect. Fabulous. Any other big myths that you think we should be aware of that we haven't talked about thus far? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: One that, we touched on a little bit, but we didn't really get into with soy. Like I mentioned that a few times, and I know a lot of people are concerned around soy and the, quote unquote phytoestrogens in there are the estrogenic effects.

And the, so the phytoestrogens in soy these are, these like flavonoid compounds that are in there. They do have some structural similarities to the estrogens that we produce endogenously, but they don't act the same way. They actually preferentially bind into certain types of estrogen receptors, which in breast tissue can have anti estrogenic effects, which is a good thing.

So it's the opposite of what estrogen would do but then in bone tissue have pro estrogenic effects. That's one reason that soy consumption is associated with a lower risk of osteoporosis while also being associated with a lower risk of breast cancer because it has the sort of the preferred effect in.

Specific areas of the body. And at the same time, [00:29:00] we have a number of clinical trials now showing that there's no real significant impact on like hormone levels in men or women or even measures of estrogenicity like uterine lining and thickness and so on in women. So there's really no cause for concern there, and it's incredibly nutritious.

It's a very high protein legume also rich in a lot of minerals that are important as well. 

Dr Orlena : And so easy, I'm, I have this debate with my son. My son is 17 and he likes to go to the gym and he's trying to get healthy and stronger. I'm like, just cut it up and eat it. Like you don't have to do anything with it.

He's that is disgusting. You can't do that. And I'm like, no. It's really easy. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: I do the, see I don't know if I do plain tofu like that, but I'll do like this. Smoked tofu and stuff. 

Dr Orlena : Yeah, exactly. Smoked with, we get some, which has got like a little bit of dried basil on it, so it's got some flavor.

Yeah. If it's got no flavor, I think it needs something. But I think it's really convenient because you can eat it raw. You don't have to cook it.

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, 

Dr Orlena : as I say, I'm not really a meat eater, you can't do that with chicken. You can't just eat raw chicken. You have to cook it first. Perfect.

Thank you. I think we have covered everything, unless you [00:30:00] think there's something else that we've missed. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: No, I think the soy was the last like loose thread there, but I think we, we hit it all. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. Would you like to tell people where they can find you? 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at Dr.

Matthew Nigra. Dr. Matthew Nigra. I'm also on basically all the other social media platforms, YouTube, TikTok et cetera. I just most active on Instagram as far as replying to comments and whatnot. I also have the website, dr matthew nigra.com, where I'll link podcasts, like this one that I've been on or.

Or some longer blog articles and so on. And you can find my contact there as well. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Dr Matthew Nagra: Thank you. 

Dr Orlena : Perfect. [00:31:00]