Menopause, Metabolism & Muscle: What Every Woman Needs to Know with Dr Stacy Sims

If you’ve ever felt like your body changed overnight after 40…
If abdominal fat appeared even though you “didn’t change anything”…
If you’ve been told it’s just about eating less and moving more…

This episode will change the way you see your body forever.

In this powerful conversation, we unpack why the traditional weight-loss narrative fails women in midlife — and what actually works instead.

You’ll discover:

• Why focusing on the scale is misleading — and why body composition is what truly matters
• How heavy lifting and power training protect your brain, metabolism, and independence as you age
• The difference between HIIT and sprint training — and why intensity (done properly) transforms fat loss and longevity
• Why eating in the morning regulates cortisol, protects muscle, and prevents the afternoon crash
• How to train hard without burning out — and why recovery is just as strategic as effort

This isn’t about dieting harder.
It’s about understanding your physiology.
It’s about building strength instead of chasing thinness.
It’s about becoming powerful, resilient, and metabolically healthy for decades to come.

If you’re ready to stop fighting your body and start working with it — press play.

Connect with Dr Stacy Sims

IG: https://www.instagram.com/drstacysims/ 

Dr Sims Programs: https://www.drstacysims.com/product_guide 

Weight Lifting Programs with Hailey Happens: https://www.haileyhappensfitness.com/workout-plans/power-happens 

Other social media:

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPD55VPa1ZWx1a_nzWC2VJA

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drstacysims

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacy-t-sims-phd/ 

Watch Stop Dieting Start Thriving: https://www.drorlena.com/stop-dieting 

Sign up for the Stop Dieting and Start Thriving Video: 

https://www.drorlena.com/stop-dieting

Looking for support? Book a free call with Dr Orlena: 

https://www.drorlena.com/book-a-call-dr-o 

Transcript

Dr Orlena: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fit and Fabulous with me, Dr. Orlena. Oh my goodness. Today my hero is here. Dr. Stacy Sims. Welcome. Welcome. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Thank you. I feel like it's weird that I'm on the other side of the world, but we are in the same day, which is great. 

Dr Orlena: We are in the same day. This is amazing, and I know that in my mind you need no introduction, and so many of my clients have been saying, when are you doing the interview with Dr. Sims? But could you just introduce yourself for people who don't know who you are, please? 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yes, I am a exercise physiologist, a nutrition scientist that specializes in sex differences, but really focusing on what has and has not been done in women. And then how to maximize our bodies as they change across lifespan with exercise, nutrition, and reducing stress.

Dr Orlena: Fabulous. What we would basically say how we lead our lives. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. How we want to lead our lives. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. And I am somebody who really loves [00:01:00] making little changes that have a really big impact. And so for me, finding your work was. Really beneficial. I think I found you a couple of years ago, and from a personal point of view, it's really helped me understand exercise and the impact it has.

Now today I have so many things I want to talk about, but I wanted to start off. Actually talking about weight loss in that I know that your message and my message is actually forget about the weight loss and focus on getting healthy and strong. And then if you do that weight loss actually follows.

But I also know that so many people find themselves in menopause and things have happened. And they find themselves with extra, particularly abdominal fat and they just don't know how to shift this. And the big narrative that people give them is, oh, it's so easy. It's all about calories in, calories out.

That's all you have to do. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: And I find this heartbreaking partly 'cause I think people. Like the human body is just not that simple. No, 

Dr Stacy Sims: it is [00:02:00] not an algorithm. Yeah. The human body's not an algorithm. And so when you're thinking conceptually of energy and energy out that works in something like an automobile where you know exactly what process needs X amount of gasoline, but the human body, we.

Cellular processes that are the smallest, all the way to whole body systems that require energy. So when we start looking at energy in energy out, we have to think about when you're not getting enough, your body starts downturn some of these cellular processes just to keep really vibrant ones alive like the brain.

So when people start talking about calories in calories out, and then you and I probably both say you need to eat more to lose weight. People freak out. They're like, what do you mean I need to eat more to lose weight? It's but we want an abundance to change body composition because if we're working on building lean mass, I want people to focus on not what you are trying to lose, but what you stand to gain.

And I think your message is very similar to that too, when you're thinking about, let's build lean mass, [00:03:00] let's. Build muscle. It's a complete glucose sink. It helps with some of our other aspects of lipid metabolism. We see it helps with bone mineral density. So if we think about all the things that building lean mass has to do to help us, then if we ship that narrative.

Like you said, body composition follows, weight loss happens because the body's finally going great. I don't have to be inflamed. I'm getting enough nutrient dense foods and I can build the tissue that I want to and need to, and I can get rid of this extra fat that I don't necessarily need. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah, and I think the reality is for a lot of people, it happens really slowly and people have this expectation that it's gonna be like, oh, one to two pounds.

It like when I was in my twenties and now it's a much slower process. And the problem with that is people can't see it so clearly and then they think, oh, this isn't working. I'm gonna give up. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. And they'll do like a weigh in every other day or hopefully just once a week if they're really focused on it.

But that isn't really true representation [00:04:00] either, because we know muscle weigh more than fat, fluid comes with some muscle. So then people will say, wait, I'm starting to gain weight. What's going on? I'm not losing weight. So there's a big disconnect in what body composition is and what weight on the scale is, and it's really hard to tease it out if we're constantly bombarded by social media messaging from influencers or from mass media that's saying it's calories in, calories out, or maybe we try a GLP one.

So then that adds even more complexity into this narrative that women have of, I wanna look a certain way, but my body's in a different state. My life and how am I gonna get back to what I look like there and what I'm seeing and like at the Grammys and that kind of stuff. And so it's this constant rhetoric and we have to take a step back and really explain what it means to lose weight versus what it means to gain lean mass.

Dr Orlena: Yeah, I think when I did your program, so I did your program on menopause and that was really eyeopening for me. I trained as a pediatrician, so like none [00:05:00] of this was really included, but I think. You highlighted all of those pathways that happen. So our insulin goes up, inflammation goes up, changes in ghrelin and leptin, and all of these things happen.

And particularly how we gain muscle. And actually the way I think about it is we need to reverse some of those. If you've got a story of. I'm just going along doing the same things and suddenly menopause happens. But I was doing the same thing and I've put on abdominal weight, it's a sure sign that some of those pathways are a little bit out of line and in order to lose the weight, you actually have to reverse those pathways first.

Dr Stacy Sims: Exactly. Exactly. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. I do recommend your menopause program for people who want understand more. Of fact. Thank you. As I say, it was really eyeopening and like I didn't understand those mechanisms before. So thank you. 

Dr Stacy Sims: You're welcome. 

Dr Orlena: I'd like to get onto heavy lifting, and I know that you talk about heavy lifting and personally, I have been following your advice now for over a year, and I [00:06:00] find that number one, it's much more enjoyable in terms of.

I didn't know when I did the eight to 12 reps that everybody taught me. By the end of it I was like, oh my goodness, this really hurts. Whereas now when I do the three to five, I get to the stage where my arms or whatever it's, I'm doing go, I can't move anymore. And I'm just like, okay. So I have to stop now 'cause I physically can't do this.

Can you explain why it's so important that we do heavy lifting? And also my other question about heavy lifting is are you saying that this is the only way that we can get stronger or the most efficient way? Because I've heard controversial things about this, right? I've heard other people say, if you get to fatigue, it doesn't matter what weight you are lifting.

And I know it's difficult when we have conflicting advice like, what do we believe? 

Dr Stacy Sims: So it's really teasing apart. Strength versus muscle mass. So if we're looking at optimizing the woman's body, especially as we age, it's not necessarily about the lean mass. Accumulation 'cause [00:07:00] it's really hard to build lean mass.

What it is about is maintaining those type two fibers, the power base, the strength, because we see with longitudinal data that as you lose power and strength, mortality increases. So if we're looking at lifting heavy and really pushing the strength parameters and the type two fibers. It inherently helps the brain health.

We see that with the heavier lifting in the neuroplasticity that occurs, it helps reduce some of the early signs of Alzheimer's and dementia. We also see that lactate production from being able to produce that from our type two fibers. Also becomes a preferred fuel in the brain. And we see that there is a change in brain metabolism, late perimenopause into post menopause because there's a disconnect in, estrogen going down and how the brain is looking to fuel itself.

So if we can provide lactate, it helps with that brain metabolism and reduces the occurrence of some of the dysregulation of the neurons and the development of plex. So that's a [00:08:00] long kind of are we optimizing with lifting? Yeah, we are optimizing, but how, what are we trying to do if we are looking to optimize longevity, optimize brain health?

We want to be down on the power end of things because this is how we are able to live independently for a very long period of time. If we're looking at doing the hypertrophy type work to failure. Yes, you'll build muscle, but you won't necessarily get the cumulative strength and power You have to train specifically for power.

You have to train specifically in that neural pathway, the heavier loads to get those neural developments. If you have never strength trained before. Then yes, you wanna start with the lighter loads and the more reps and going to failure, but it's a diminishing return. 'cause the longer you do that, the less impact it's gonna have on total body.

So it is a strength training journey. And when I first started talking about heavy lifting, all of it was new to so many women in our age group. They're like, what do you mean heavy lifting? [00:09:00] I remember presenting in an endurance co conference saying, not long, slow distance, but LHS meaning lift heavy shit.

And as people started tuning into that, they're like, but I don't wanna get injured. I'm like, I'm not telling you that if you have never, ever done any kind of strength training, or the only thing you've been doing is body weight or light dumbbells to drop that and go immediately into heavy lifting. It's a right to lift heavy and it's a journey to lift heavy.

But as you start thinking about periodizing your program, we want to not so much look at going to eight to 15 reps or to failure because that's not gonna impact where women really need to impact, to preserve our muscle quality, to preserve our strength and our power together, and our type two fibers.

Dr Orlena: Perfect. So what. Would be your ideal. Regime for somebody who is active doing other things, but also wants to include [00:10:00] weightlifting in their life. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Oh gosh, that's a really hard one because it depends on what kinds of other things that they're doing and what kind of training history they have, if they've done any kind of strength training or not.

If they don't mind going to the gym or they hate the gym. So there's so many different variables. That we need to talk about. Ideally, as we start getting into peri and post menopause, we start really downturning the long slow volume type work and really focus on the quality of work. So that is the quality of cardio work.

So we're doing more high intensity work. We're doing some sprint work, and we're devoting more time in the gym for mobility and strength development. Because if we want to move well, we also have to be able to support the strength that we're building with really robust range of motion in our joints that are now inflamed and sore.

It's like one of the first things that people come to me and they're like, I can't do this because my hips hurt, my knees hurt and I can't move the ways to, it's let's use some distraction and let's use some a little bit [00:11:00] of blood flow restriction to get getting into that, that joint capsule.

Open that up, and then we have better range of motion. Then we can tax the tissue with. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. So in terms of weightlifting, what I'm hearing you say is everybody needs to be at their level. So if you're starting off and you're just lifting lightweights to start off, or perhaps because you've got arthritis and you are a bit scared of lifting those weights, then that's fabulous.

It's better than nothing, but really where we want to be, if we can get there, is lifting those heavy weights. And actually it gives you more benefits than just lifting the lightweights. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Exactly. 

Dr Orlena: Okay, perfect. And then in terms of high intensity and sprint interval training, can we talk a little bit about that?

And I think. What in my mind, I'm a swimmer when I go Mars, 

Dr Stacy Sims: I got GLE Mars. I was swimming this morning. 

Dr Orlena: Oh, hooray. Look at you. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Ocean Swim tomorrow. You wanna come over? 

Dr Orlena: Oh, it's cold here at [00:12:00] the moment, so you've got your lovely summer. But for me, an ocean swim at the moment is 20 minutes in a wetsuit, 20, 30 minutes in a wetsuit.

That's about. And the sun has to be shining. If the sun's not shining, it's

Dr Stacy Sims: I feel that way here because the water temperature is like 21 and I'm still like wetsuit, which is really hot for New Zealand, but 

Dr Orlena: 21 Centigrade. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah, 

Dr Orlena: but you, I can swim 21 without wetsuit. 

Dr Stacy Sims: I can't. I'm too cold.

Dr Orlena: Really? 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: Wow. 

Dr Stacy Sims: I'm like the 28 kind of swimmer with no wetsuit. 

Dr Orlena: Okay. Our water doesn't get to 28 in the summer. 

Dr Stacy Sims: It doesn't get that 20 here either. 21 is about the max. Sorry. I diverted swimming. Go back. Swimming. You're swimming. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah. So I think I understand my, in my brain, the difference between hit and sit.

But I find it difficult to tease out, particularly in terms of swimming, am I doing hiit? Am I doing sit because I'm doing swimming training? So for people who aren't doing like a 20 minute, like this is hiit, this is sit. I think, and I cycle as [00:13:00] well. So cycling up those hills, I think it can be really difficult to think.

Am I doing HIIT or am I doing sit? And what's the difference and does it matter? So can we talk a little bit about all of that, please? Sure. 

Dr Stacy Sims: So if we're talking structurally about high intensity interval training, sit, sprint interval training is a subset. So when we're talking about high intensity interval training, this could be the Norwegian four by four, meaning four minutes on, four minutes off, and the four minutes is about 80% or an eight out of 10, and then the off is a four or five on a rating, perceived exertion, or about 40 to 50%.

When we're talking about sprint interval training, this is very short, 30 seconds or less, as hard as you possibly can. So it could be a rolling sprint in the pool. So you start off really trying to pick it up till halfway down the lane, and then you go as hard as you can, right? Or you could do the reverse, explode off and then cruise into the wall.

So it's really short focused really hard with lots of recovery between, so this could be two minutes, maybe three minutes, enough for [00:14:00] everything to come back down to baseline. The reason why we have the two different scopes is if we're looking at. The four by four, the Norwegian concept, this is where it's more of a metabolic stress, where we're really starting to get some epigenetic changes to allow mitochondria to become more robust, to allow glucose to come into the muscle without using insulin.

We're also looking at improving our VO two max and a lot of the things that we read about in the longevity. When we talk about sprint interval training, this is such a really super strong stress to the body. One, it invokes changes in the brain neuroplasticity, so we're getting faster neuron conductivity, which again helps with any kind of cognitive decline.

But the other thing is it releases a lot of what we call myokine. So these are signals from the skeletal muscle that is telling all the other systems in the body, Hey wait. This is a really super strong stress. We have to be able to overcome [00:15:00] it. So one of the things that happens is now the liver understands it's not supposed to take free fatty acids and convert them into a visceral fat.

It's supposed to allow those free fatty acids to stay as free fatty acids so the body can use that at rest. More free fatty acid use at rest means that you can serve your liver and your muscle glycogen, and you're able to tap more into body fat and other fat storage that you're just using as your daily.

Kind of fuel for your body. The other thing that sprint interval training does is it really affects our gut microbiome. And we know that gut microbiome decreases in diversity significantly in the three to four years before that one point time menopause. And we see this because our sex hormones are dropping.

So the gut bugs that are responsible for some of the sex hormone metabolism. No longer there, but because the body's already highly sympathetically driven or stressed from all the changes that are happening, it creates an environment [00:16:00] where more of the obesogenic type gut bugs grow. So those kinds of bugs that are really good at pulling out all the energy from all the food that you eat.

So if we're looking at decreasing that abdominal deep, abdominal fat, the visceral fat. And we're concerned about the body, overall, body composition, fueling, and brain health. We wanna go with the sprayable training. If we're looking more for overall metabolic health, focusing more on blood glucose control, improving lean mass and mitochondria uptake, then we go with the high intensity interval stuff.

If we're thinking about the swimming pool, if you're going to a typical squad session where you're doing twos and threes and fours, you count that as a high intensity interval session. Sometimes when I'm in squad I'm like, I need a little bit more recovery in order to do the next 200 really well. So instead of a 200, I'll do a 1 33.

'cause we have a 33 meter pool. 

Dr Orlena: Oh wow. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. So it's just knowing when to pause to take the extra bit of break so that you can hit the [00:17:00] next one at the intensity you need to. If we're doing sprints too, right? So sometimes we'll do four by 30 threes or maybe even six by 33. And if the recovery isn't enough for me personally to go, okay, I can hit that next 33 with full gas, then I'll take a step out.

Like I'll just wait at the side of the pool until the next one. You have to have that confidence. Say, wait a second, I need a little bit more recovery. Or you can play around if it's four by 30 threes and you don't want to be at the end of the pool waiting 'cause it seems a bit suspect 'cause your coach is gonna yell at you, then you do half a length, really easy and then explode into it.

So then the recovery is also coming in that second half a. And explode into it. So there are ways of modifying what you're doing in the pool to really get that top end or to say this is more of a high intensity interval session. 

Dr Orlena: And in terms of high intensity, you talked about the Norwegian four, but I've also seen in your book [00:18:00] you talk about, there's a study, it was quite a small study, but it was women.

Who were on a bicycle, a static bicycle, and I think they were doing like eight 15. So eight seconds pedaling hard. I don't remember exactly, but it was a really short period of time. So is there a difference between doing a short period and the four minutes? 

Dr Stacy Sims: So the short period of time is an example of the sprint interval training.

That's not quite optimal, but we are looking at some of the body composition changes. So it was 15 seconds as hard as possible with a little bit of recovery in between. And that's more my. Mistake of not putting in a clear example of what spreadable training was. If we're also talking about high intensity, it doesn't have to be four minutes total.

We can look at one minute at 80%, one minute off, one minute on, one minute off. It's the variation of recovery to rest that makes it high intensity versus sprint. So Sprint. 

Dr Orlena: Okay. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Having lots and lots of recovery. 'cause the goal is to go as hard as you possibly can for [00:19:00] each 20 or 30 seconds or less. And you might only make three of those 'cause your body's not really that used to going that hard.

Whereas if you're looking at high intensity interval training, you're hitting about that 80, maybe 85 mark for a minute, and then a minute recovery. So the next minute you're like, yeah, I can hit 80, 85 again, no problem. So you might be able to do eight of one minute on one minute off. 

Dr Orlena: And I think the important thing to talk about the sit is that what is intense for one person is not intense for another person.

So it's very individual. Exactly. And so when people are just getting started out. They're not jumping on a treadmill and running, they're perhaps walking up a hill. And as they get fitter, that intensity changes. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. It doesn't ever get easier. It just gets faster. That's a problem. Like one of the things, if like I'm.

I can't run at the moment. I've been injured for a year. I just had surgery in December, so I'm starting a return to run program and sprinting, running. Used to be my sprint interval stuff, but now I'm like, okay, salt bike [00:20:00] or kettlebell swings, battle ropes, any of those things. It's the intent of going as hard as possible.

So if you're first starting out, maybe it is like picking your pace up and going up a hill, or maybe you are, really doing quick steps upstairs. So it really is what's your mode of comfort to remain in control as you're pushing your body to its limits 

Dr Orlena: and taking the other side. What about walking?

Does like just gentle walking, does that have any benefit for us? I personally love to have a walk every day, but I'm doing that on top of all my swimming and cycling and weights. So is there benefits for walking or is it just relaxation? 

Dr Stacy Sims: It's relaxation. We call it the soul food. Being out in nature is so important.

We see so much research about being out in nature and how beneficial it is for parasympathetic, for sleep, for mood changes, for everything. Which is why when people are stuck inside in winter, even if they're training, they still get. Depressed, they don't feel as [00:21:00] good. They feel like their workout wasn't working for them because there is a difference between walking inside and outside or running inside and outside, cycling inside and outside.

So if we're talking about going for a walk every day, it's your soul food and your way to connect. You're not being competitive about it. You're not on the watch per se. You're not trying to hit a certain intensity, that's fine. It's when it starts to become overwhelming. You're trying to fit all the other stuff in, and your key workouts are.

Fledgling, so you're not able to hit the intensities. That's when you have to draw back and go, wait a second. I'm peppering all these things in because I one love one side of thing, but two think I have to do these other things. It's take a step back and say, what can I drop? To be able to focus on these three key things in a week.

So like for me, I used to love going for long rides, but I know that I can't do that and all the other things that my life has in it, as well as the lifting and the sprint stuff that I wanna do. So now I ride once a week outside. [00:22:00] Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: And going understand going back to running. 

I'm not a runner by nature, but I used to run more in the winter when I wasn't going to the swimming pool and I would just do half an hour of running.

Now for a swimmer, that really felt like my heart rate was getting up quite a lot. But what you're saying is actually a half hour run isn't as beneficial as doing. The sprints. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Correct. So we see in the research that if you are taking 10 to 15 minutes focused high intensity, it does more for cardiovascular metabolic health and overall like systemic health than a 30 minute steady state run.

And it's because the intensity of a 30 minute run is not the same as when you're focused on trying to do the intensity. And they are different. So if someone's I wanna go for a run, and I have 30 minutes okay, in that 30 minutes, let's do some tempo work in there. Let's mix it up. Not a steady state.

Dr Orlena: Okay. And in terms of heart rate. I know you talk about relative [00:23:00] perceived 

Dr Stacy Sims: exertion. 

Dr Orlena: Exertion, 

Dr Stacy Sims: yeah. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah. And I think this is one of the things that I really struggle with in terms of like when I'm swimming and as a swimmer, I suspect you know this, but it's almost like you can be going max out and your speed doesn't really change hugely.

So it can be a little bit difficult to think am I doing 80%? Am I doing a hundred percent? And one of the things I really notice is my heart rate. So I saw a video from Dr. Vonda Wright and she says, I think she's older than me. I jump on my. Treadmill and I'm doing my sprints in 30 seconds. My heart rate has gone up to 180 and I'm like, what?

Like I need to swim, like all out four lengths and I get my heart rate up to 172, and that's me pushing really hard. Now is that just one of those things that doesn't matter or is that something that I need to work on? 

Dr Stacy Sims: The only thing about the mode. Because running is such a hard exercise. You're trying to push your body against gravity up and through air, right?

And you're not supported. Whereas when you're in the pool, you have help from the flow of the water for [00:24:00] blood return, so you can't physically get your heart rate up as high in the pool as you can. So when we're looking at what are the intensity differences, this is where I really like people like to try to key in and say, how do I feel?

We're not paying attention to speed. We're not paying attention necessarily to what our heart rate is. There's also lag time in the pool because of the water dynamics that help with the blood flow return. So we're seeing a little bit of a lag with our heart rate. So if we're looking at really what are we doing in the pool?

When you're in the pool, I like people to really focus on trying to maintain a certain effort for a 200 or 400. I want to feel like I'm a seven out 10 by the time I hit 200 of the 400 or by 100 and a 200.

So we're trying to maintain a certain relative intensity because if we're trying to do that. And looking at our heart rate, we're gonna see this significant lag. So like you said, it takes you for really [00:25:00] pushing hard laps to get your heart rate up to 172, whereas if you're running, you would get that within the first 25 meters.

So there is that lag time we have to take into account. 

Dr Orlena: Okay, I need to try running. I find the same on my bike actually, that if I'm pushing up a hill, I'm looking at my watch going tip over to a little bit. Like apparently my level is 161 and often I get to 160 and I'm like, I'm pushing as hard as I can.

This hill is this hill and it's. Still not getting over. So perhaps cycling is the same 

Dr Stacy Sims: a little bit. And we also see that there's a lag in our heart rate monitors as well. We also have to remember that the algorithms and the heart rate monitors, they don't account for female physiology, especially if you're a lifetime exerciser.

So we see that the heart remodels differently in women versus men. Primarily women's hearts become roomier. So our ventricles and atria, they expand and the muscle around it becomes strong. So we're not getting any kind of dysfunction. Whereas men, they [00:26:00] get really strong heart muscle and the actual chambers of the heart don't.

Large. So when we're looking at the differences in what our heart rate monitors are reading, our QRS or some of our intervals of our electrical signaling is different. And so we miss beats. We end up with a lower heart rate, but it's not because of our effort, it's because the algorithms aren't reading our heart rate appropriately.

Dr Orlena: Okay. And what about combining weights with high intensity afterwards? And I've heard conflicting advice on this. I've heard some people say. You just annihilate all your gains and other people saying, oh, it's a really good opportunity for fat burning. So does it matter if we do some weights? Personally, I do a, what I call a 10 minute hit workout, and I personally find like one of the apple fitness plus ones.

I do it more for jumping actually, because I think it helps me jump around. Rather than really, some of the things will get my heart rate up, like tuck jumps will get my heart rate up, but most of them. [00:27:00] It's just a little bit of fun, but is that a good thing to do or just forget about it? 

Dr Stacy Sims: No, it depends on your goal.

If your goal is to build strength and lean mass, then do that first, and then you can do a sprint finisher. If your goal is more visceral, fat loss and metabolic control, then do your high intensity first and then do a lifting session separate from it or a very short lifting session at the end. It really comes down to the individual goal.

What I usually try to scope for women is. Like a mobility and, oh, a longer warmup. So really get into joint distraction. And then we do a focus 20 minute heavy compound move where maybe we get into a little bit of french contrast. And then when we have a sprint finish, so the sprint finish could be on a treadmill, it could be on a rowing, or it could be kettlebells.

But if you're doing a very short sprint finisher, that isn't going to be a metabolic cost that's going to eat into your lean map. It's when you're looking at doing an hour run after you've done a lifting session, that's when we start seeing issues. So if we're [00:28:00] thinking about keeping it short and concise and the focus on building the strength and the sprint finisher, not a problem.

If you're warming up with apply O work and then into your lifting, great. There's not gonna be any kind of real. Contraindication for building lean mass that way, or compromising your plyo. So it depends on what your goal is and how long each of those sections are. 

Dr Orlena: Okay. Fabulous. It's not as easy as we thought.

They're all like little bits and pieces that we do really need to pay attention to. One of the other things you talk about is phasing. So this idea of stressful hard days and then relaxing days. I guess my first question is about recovery. 'cause I understand that recovery is really important.

So we are thinking about sleep, nutrition, hydration, ideally reducing stress. And then on top of that I see myself doing the same things every single day or pretty much, but I wonder if that's because I'm not pushing [00:29:00] myself to the high intensity and therefore the high intensity, low intensity doesn't really matter if you are not really pushing yourself.

High or whether I'm just not noticing, but I do get a good night's sleep. I give myself the opportunity to get a good night's every single night. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. So 

Dr Orlena: what are the important, yeah, sorry, go 

Dr Stacy Sims: on. Yeah, so it's like if we're looking at really trying to optimize the woman's body as she's in perimenopause and beyond, we really do have to look at that polarization where we're going super hard, and then the next day we're like, I could not do that again.

I couldn't do another hit workout. I need that recovery. Because then you know that you went as hard as you possibly could. If you're like, oh, I could probably do this again this day and I could probably do it again the next day. You're not actually polarizing. You're not getting hard enough in that effort when you're trying to do an effort.

What I try to get people to do who are used to doing something the same every day, and they think they're going hard and they're not, is I. Really try to get them to [00:30:00] either use a rating perceived exertion scale or to go with a friend. And that's gonna push you because if you're competitive with your friend, then you go a little bit harder.

This is where community comes into play, why community is so important, why we see things like high rocks and the payers in that race situation are, they sell out almost immediately because you have someone to be competitive with and to also support you at the same time. So I. Want to teach people how to push harder, and a lot of times it takes a friend and after that workout, they're like, that was so fun and so hard, but man, I can't do that tomorrow.

So the recovery part's really important from a day-to-day perspective, because if you recover well, then the next time, maybe you do a really hard workout on the Tuesday with your friend and she's oh, I could do it again on Thursday afternoon. Or maybe Friday morning you are like, oh, thank goodness, let's go Friday.

Because I don't have to do that again. I need a couple of easy days to really recover, to be able to hit it hard again. [00:31:00] 

Dr Orlena: Okay? And I don't know whether this is just me, but I find that if I swim and then do weights the next day, it feels like something totally different for my body. But perhaps. I'm not stressing myself enough when I do my weights.

I'm not sure. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. I try to explain to people who are so endurance oriented that feeling you get at the end of a race or after a really hard workout, that euphoria, tired feeling, but not that, oh, I'm so tired, I need to eat. Feeling that you, euphoria feeling is what you should have at the end of a really hard weight session where you're pushing yourself.

To the point where you're like, oh, I feel completely worked, but you don't feel smashed. And I think this is something that people don't understand, especially in our age group, because we're so used to the, like the firm workouts or the bootcamp workouts where you're doing weights, but you're getting a really big, sweaty session on.

And so many people think that's how they should feel at the end of a weight session. A lot of times, I'm not even sweating when I finish a really heavy weight session unless I'm in a un-air conditioned gym. [00:32:00] So it's like I push really hard, I'm shaking and I feel really worked, but metabolically, I don't feel taxed like I would if I was doing a session in the pool.

Dr Orlena: Okay. But so it is okay in terms of the high, low, it's okay to do high swim, high weights. I'm not gonna call it High Swim again. Perhaps I don't know my trainer, she's always pushing us, but I don't know. Perhaps I have more in me to keep going. Yeah. 

Dr Stacy Sims: It's if we're swimming Monday, Wednesday, Friday, then that's your focus what are you doing to polarize in there?

And then maybe Tuesday afternoon, not Tuesday morning, you do weights, so you have more recovery from the morning to the evening. And then you have your swim session Wednesday. And then you do weights again maybe Thursday morning because you would've had a back to back night to morning. Yeah. So then you want that extra bit of time before you do it again.

So it's like, where are we putting in these sessions to maximize recovery? Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. [00:33:00] Perfect. So I think my last question is really thinking about fueling. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: And I think this is a really important part. And you also talk about early cortisol spikes and that it's really important for women to eat something.

Now if you are exercising first thing in the morning, that becomes super easy. Yeah. Not, it's a little bit more complicated. So can we start by talking about the cortisol spike?

I think, your advice that I understand is that early in the morning our cortisol goes up, which is not great because cortisol is something that is going to help us put on abdominal fat and in order to counterbalance that we want to eat something.

But then other people say, yeah, but you don't wanna be eating first thing in the morning. 'cause that's when we are more sensitive to glucose. And a lot of other people as well say, oh, but I feel really sick in the morning. My point is if you feel really sick is that's probably your cortisol levels that are really high, because that's what happens when your cortisol levels are really high.

Dr Stacy Sims: Exactly. [00:34:00] Yeah. We have a, as natural cortisol awakening response. So if we are looking at what's happening half an hour before we naturally wake, cortisol starts to come up and then it peaks a half an hour after we're awake. So what happens with that? There's an interplay between our appetite hormones.

Primarily isolated Garlin, which is our hunger hormone and peptide YY, which is a satiation hormone, right? So if we are not eating, then we have a little bit of a dysregulation of that. So many women say, I'm not hungry first thing in the morning. I don't wanna eat first thing in the morning.

It's once you start having something small, then you are able to polarize those appetite hormones and your body's Hey, great. I'm working with my circadian rhythm. I'm awake. I need to fuel. Okay, I'm going to be able to pull fuel in. I'm more. Sensitive to glucose because I've been sleeping all night and I need it.

My insulin resistance isn't as high as it is in the afternoon, so let's have some carbohydrate, let's have a little bit of protein. Let's [00:35:00] go. What we see when people don't eat is we have a little bit of that disconnect of our peptide, YY and assate garlin, and it perturbs the hypothalamus. So we start to get into more of a kind of.

A lucid state, I guess is the best way to say, with your appetite, where you're not really hungry but you feel a bit flat. And we see this leads into the wall lean in the afternoon. In women where we tend to be really hungry for simple carbohydrates. We don't move as much during the day. We tend to lean more on things in the afternoon because we don't have as much energy to stay up and then.

In the evening when dinnertime comes, it's I'm so hungry, I'm gonna eat everything. So if we're backing it up and looking at circadian rhythm, we want to work with our circadian rhythm. And ours is different than men's where we see, we have our cortisol that comes up. We have our hormones that pulse throughout the day, including cortisol.

So if we're working with that, we have appetite hormone control. If we have appetite, hormone [00:36:00] control through hypothalamus, then we also end up with less stress and less inflammation. And these are really critical factors for women's bodies. As we get older and lose estrogen, we need to do whatever we can to drop that systemic inflammation in order to get the signal to let's build lean mass and bone and drop body fat.

Dr Orlena: And am I right in understanding as well that if we don't eat first thing in the morning, essentially we start using our muscle as a bit of an energy source, which is really counterintuitive. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Because our body is okay, there's no fuel coming in. I'm awake, I'm ready to go. I'm gonna start using or tapping into the most energy hungry tissue.

And that's lean mass. 

Dr Orlena: And I guess for people who aren't sleeping very well, this creates a problem because your cortisol level is high at nighttime. 

But you don't really want to be getting up and having a snack in the middle of the night. No.

Dr Stacy Sims: No, you don't. So there's two things here with the poor [00:37:00] sleep.

We see a lot of women who are trying to lose weight end up with lots of hypoglycemic responses at night. And these are small awakenings through the night. So if you're someone who's i'm trying to lose weight. I am doing calorie a little bit of a calorie deficit, but I'm having really poor sleep.

Then let's go with 150 ml of non-fat Greek yogurt before bed and see if that improves your sleep. Why? Because it has protein. Both way encasing. It has potassium, it has magnesium, it has a whole bunch of things that help you sleep and it's really easy to digest so it won't interfere with that rest or digest.

If you still have lots of awakenings, even with that, then we know that it's not hypoglycemia. We have to look at sleep hygiene and how are you going to improve parasympathetic responses. So we wanna a cool room. We wanna do all the things that we're, we learn about, right? No phones in the room, no screens.

Trying to reduce blue lights, reducing stress, but also looking at using things [00:38:00] like L-theanine because this in works with the brain's GABA system to improve parasympathetic response. So there are things that we can take that's gonna help us sleep. The other thing that we see with sleep deprivation is a lot of attention span deficits in the day, the next day.

We're seeing in the literature, that's when the brain is actually doing its cleansing that it normally would do while you're sleeping. So if we're like, I'm having a lot of attention span deficits, my quality of sleep wasn't great, then we need to look at what is our sleep hygiene. Maybe it is a case where sleep is so interrupted, you're not having any kind of metabolic control.

Your quality of life is out the window. Then maybe you are going to look at using some menopause hormone therapy to help with the sleep. So there's so many things around sleep that's so important that I tell people you need to nail sleep first to get any other kind of change. Yeah. Another thing is the community involvement, right?

Because we know isolation is a killer and one of the aspects of isolationism is that you don't sleep [00:39:00] well because you haven't had the Q in or any kind of dopamine release from being with your friends or out in nature. So it's. Community and sleep so important. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. And so in terms of fueling, before we exercise, we want a little bit of protein and a little bit of carbohydrates.

Dr Stacy Sims: Correct. Not a massive meal. You don't have to worry about having a massive meal. Like I think my protein coffee thing went viral 'cause people asked what I did. Like I put in double espresso and some almond milk and good to go with some protein powder. It's my protein and carb and then I'll have real breakfast when I get home.

Some people will have half a banana 'cause it's all they can handle. Some people will have a little bit of a protein shake and then other people are like, I'm having a whole piece of toast and a boiled egg. So it depends on what you can stomach, but as long as you're having a little bit of food coming in, help drop the cortisol, help with appetite hormone regulation.

You're good to go. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. And is that the same for, so for me, I [00:40:00] do my hardcore exercise in the morning, but then I will easily go for a 30 hour walk later on in the afternoon. And I don't consider that to be exercise. And then I think, should I be fueling that? It doesn't really feel like exercise, it just feels like moving my body.

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. So when we're looking at first thing in the morning. And most of us who are time crunched will get up and do things first thing in the morning. That's the critical factor of you've been sleeping or you haven't had food all night, and you're pretty low in all your stores. You need to eat something before and after exercise, especially if it's hardcore.

And then you go through your day and you're like, okay, I had breakfast, I had morning tea, I had lunch, and now I'm gonna go for an afternoon walk. You don't have to fuel for that because you've had food throughout the day,. If you do your hardcore exercise and you only have a little bit of food afterwards, and then you have this big hole in the middle of the day, and then you go for your walk, you're gonna become hypoglycemic during your walk and it's gonna be counterintuitive. So you do wanna have something before.

So it's not necessarily [00:41:00] exercise from a training perspective, but it is using fuel. To move your body. So it's a little bit of a nuance for most people. Having that regular food after their exercise and eating normally throughout the day. Going for walking afternoon is a just a whatever. It's just let go.

If walking is your primary form of exercise, you're gonna be pushing hard and you're doing that in the afternoon, then yeah, you probably will need a snack before. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. And I think from my understanding of the literature and what you say, what we really want to be doing is having a big breakfast after exercise if that's when we've done our exercise.

Then a reasonably big lunch and then a light supper, and then ideally resting before we go to sleep, resting our gut before we go to sleep. Yeah. Unless you are not sleeping well, then you can have your low fat Greek yogurt. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yes, exactly. Because that's also how our circadian rhythm works and we're looking at.

When our body's most sensitive to carbohydrate. Yes. First thing in the morning because your body is going, I need to get some glucose into my cells. And then as the day goes [00:42:00] on, we come a little bit more insulin resistant. So we want protein at every meal. We wanna eat at regular intervals, but we do want to make sure that we're not having food two to three hours before bed unless you're having problems sleeping.

Dr Orlena: Perfect. Fabulous. Thank you. I think we have covered everything, although I know we will hang up and I'll be like, I didn't ask this question. 

Dr Stacy Sims: You can email it and I'll answer it and then you can read it or put it in show notes. 

Dr Orlena: I think I scared your team 'cause when I did your program, I did this long list of questions.

I'm like, I have so many questions. And they were like. Wait, that's ridiculous. She can't possibly answer all of those questions. 

Dr Stacy Sims: You can send a few. 

Dr Orlena: No, I think we've answered Mo most of them or all of them that I can remember right now. So thank you so much. It's been, honestly, such an honor to have you on the program.

Any last words and where people can find you and. Do you wanna talk about the programs that you have? 

Dr Stacy Sims: Oh, yeah. Gosh, I'm working on many different ones, but we have our education programs online. So we had the menopause course with a whole bunch of micro [00:43:00] learnings. We have the next gen one that's on puberty.

I'm working on a longevity for active women one now. 'cause I'm also, oh, I'm writing the book with Celine at the moment. So those are all the big projects. And then I'm gonna start traveling again in April and hit a lot of the conferences. Across the west and east coast of the states, maybe eco over to Europe.

If so, I'll let you know. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah. If you come to Europe, definitely let me know. I'll be there with my hand off. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: Barcelona is a really fabulous place to do conferences. 

Dr Stacy Sims: I know 

Dr Orlena: if you go to Barcelona, you must come up to the coast and we can swim together. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Okay. That sounds like a deal. Your water will be way warmer than what my water gets to 

Dr Orlena: if you come in the summer.

It is beautiful here. It is trans, it's a bit, the Mediterranean is a bit like a swimming pool. It's like a giant swimming pool in the summer and then occasionally it has waves. And all my friends go, there's waves. And I'm like, it is a sea. It 

Dr Stacy Sims: is a, I live in a surf town, so everyone like you [00:44:00] try to get stuff done and the waves are in.

You can't get anything done 'cause everyone's surfing. This stuff? 

Dr Orlena: Yeah, no. Like when we have waves, I'm like, oh, a mouse could surf on that. Like they're not big waves. But that does mean that the water is crystal clear. Nice. Because it's not, the sediment doesn't get built up. Yeah. And so it's beautiful.

Like you just swim and it's beautiful. Octopuses and stingrays and yay. 

Dr Stacy Sims: We get strays in orca. 

Dr Orlena: Oh, wow. Amazing. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. 

Dr Orlena: Do you wanna also talk about, I know that you have some programs for people who want to start. Lifting weights. Do you want to talk about those? 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yeah. So I partnered with Hailey Babcock, with Haley Happens Fitness, and we have a series called Power Happen series and we have a, like a basic learn to lift number one, and it goes all the way through to a really advanced one.

And in March we're putting in agility and more power-based stuff. So it's true like French contrast, it's an advanced program, Vonda. Dr. Vonda Wrights also partnered with Haley for Uber beginning in your house kind [00:45:00] of program. That has follow on videos too, so it's a good resource for people who are getting into lifting or have a friend wants to get into lifting with them.

Yeah. So those are cool. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah. And I think it can be difficult to, if you've never been into a gym, it can be really difficult to think, how do I start this? And even finding a personal trainer can be difficult. I think in my experience, personal trainers are very good at teaching you technique, but when you say to them, I want to do Dr.

Stacey Sims three to five, they go, okay. And then they teach you the eight to 12 and you're like, you said you were gonna do something different. And I think a lot of people haven't caught up in terms of where women are. And I hear this from so many people. Yeah. But my trainer wants me to do this. 

Dr Stacy Sims: And I always tell people, you are paying for that session with your trainer.

They might be the expert in that gym, but they're not the expert. You're the expert of your own body and you know what you wanna do. So you have to talk to your trainer and if they don't listen to you, find another one. 'cause you're paying for it. Yeah. You are paying. 

Dr Orlena: [00:46:00] It's diff but it's difficult in small towns.

So I live in a small town. Yeah. And there's just not people around here I think an online program can be really beneficial for people. 

Dr Stacy Sims: Yes, a hundred percent. Yep. 

Dr Orlena: Perfect. So I will leave a link for all of those things in the show notes and generally people find you Instagram, you've got a podcast.

Dr Stacy Sims: I don't have a personal podcast because I'm on so many, oh, 

Dr Orlena: I think you just started one. 

Dr Stacy Sims: I am with a group of others. So I am with Gabby Reese, Gabrielle Lyon, Amber Taylor, who is a digital exec for Les Mills International and Abby Smith. Ryan. So we are, we started one. It's view esque where we take different perspectives and talk about hot topics, and so that is launching at the end of the month, and then that will be the podcast that I have. There's another one in the works that we're just thinking about, but that's with a women's health platform that we're designing to have AI that's specific for women to look at women's health data to [00:47:00] be able to give the right information.

Dr Orlena: Oh, that would be amazing. I see so many people as well using AI to do their workouts. Yeah. And I'm like, you do know that AI works by predicting things. Yeah. And making it sound feasible. So it always sounds feasible. It always sounds like it's working. Whether it actually is or not is a different matter.

Dr Stacy Sims: No. 'cause it's in the bell curve and it's regenerating the echo chamber primarily of mail data. And that's the frustrating thing. 

Dr Orlena: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much once again. It's been an absolute pleasure. And thank you again. 

Dr Stacy Sims: You.