103 | Timeless Tales From A Local Legend w/ Andrew Fulton

Red Rock Canyon is a National Conservation Area about 17 miles from the Las Vegas Strip. Its striking red and cream-colored sandstone walls hold thousands of climbs — from 20-foot sport routes to adventurous 20-pitch trad lines. Today, I’m sitting down with long-time local Andrew Fulton. Andrew has been climbing in Red Rocks since January of 1993 — back before the city even had climbing gyms, when pioneers like George and Joanne Urioste were putting up countless first ascents in the canyon. Over the last 30 years, he’s witnessed massive changes in the city, the climbing culture, and Red Rock Canyon itself. As a newer Las Vegas local myself, I was stoked to connect with Andrew — not just to hear the history of a world-class climbing area, but to get a feel for what it was like to be a climber “back in the day.”

In our conversation, we dig into the complicated history of The Original Route on Rainbow Wall, Andrew’s unique perspective on risk and how it shaped both his climbing and his guiding career. We dive into several wild stories from his past — including rockfall, a massive fire, swarms of bees, and a 100+ foot aid fall that nearly cost him his life. We close things out by going deep into the meaning of climbing, and ultimately uncover what we see as three pillars of climbing: spirituality, adventure, and performance.

Quick disclaimer: this was the first episode I filmed in-person in my new home studio. The video came out great, but the audio — especially on my end — isn’t quite up to the usual standard even after spending a large amount of time trying to save it. But, the kinks are now worked out, so all my future in-person episodes will have the professional, crispy audio you’re used to. If you’d like to watch this interview, check out the TCM YouTube channel — you can find the link in the show notes.

One more thing. I have a huge favor I need from all of you. TCM’s Youtube channel currently has 665 subscribers and I really need to get to 1000. With the number of listeners we get per episode I know that we can hit that number within the week. So even if you prefer to listen to your podcasts outside of Youtube, please head over to the channel and hit subscribe. 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 3:40 Red Rock History
• 14:44 Rainbow Wall
• 24:54 Risk
• 38:11 Story #1 | Rock Fall on D.W.O.T.
• 46:54 Story #2 | Rock Slide on Lady's Cleavage
• 53:22 Story #3 | A Multi-pitch Fireball
• 1:08:41 Climbing Philosophy
• 1:28:51 Closing Words

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:24
Kyle
Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where I capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes from around the world.

00:00:09:26 - 00:00:14:17
Kyle
Come join me as I dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00:00:16:03 - 00:00:41:23
Kyle
This episode is brought to you by lives in Designs that's lives and lives in. Is an outdoor apparel company built on the idea of owning less and living more. Their gear is designed to last functional, versatile and made responsibly. They create clothing you can live in and climb in season after season. Plus, they stand behind their work with a lifetime warranty program and a mission to minimize impact on people and our planet.

00:00:41:26 - 00:01:01:13
Kyle
Lives in has made a commitment not just to their customers, not just to its sustainability, but also to you, the climbing majority. They've taken a leap of faith in sponsoring this show, and have become the first partner to stand beside this growing community. While this will always be a passion first project for me, partnerships like this give me the time and resources to grow this show into something bigger.

00:01:01:20 - 00:01:22:08
Kyle
Every time you choose to support lives in, you're also supporting this podcast. Hit the link in the show notes to learn more about our sponsor and to make your first purchase in supporting this community. Plus, when you use code M15 at checkout, you'll get 15% off your entire order. That's TKM 15 for 15% off at checkout. All right, let's get into today's episode.

00:01:23:05 - 00:01:46:28
Kyle
Red Rock Canyon, a national conservation area about 17 miles from the Las Vegas Strip. It's striking red and cream colored sandstone walls hold thousands of climbs from 20ft sport routes to adventurous 20 pitch tread lines. Today, I'm sitting down with a longtime local, Andrew Fulton. Andrew has been climbing in Red Rock Canyon since January of 1993, back before the city even had climbing gyms.

00:01:47:01 - 00:02:08:18
Kyle
When pioneers like George and Joanna Yazdi. We're putting up countless first descents of the canyon. Over the last 30 years, he's witnessed massive changes in the city, the climbing culture and Red Rock Canyon itself. As a newer Las Vegas local myself, I was stoked to connect with Andrew, not just to hear the history of world class climbing area, but to get a feel for what it was like to be a climber back in the day.

00:02:08:21 - 00:02:28:12
Kyle
In our conversation, we dig into the complicated history of the original route on Rainbow Wall, Andrew's unique perspective on risk and how it shaped both his climbing and his guiding career. We dive into several wild stories from his past, including rockfall, a massive fire, swarms of bees and a 100 plus foot aid fall that nearly cost him his life.

00:02:28:15 - 00:02:48:04
Kyle
We close things out by going deep into the meaning of climbing, and ultimately uncover what we see as the three pillars of climbing spirituality, adventure, and performance. Quick disclaimer this was the first episode I filmed in person in my new home studio. While the video came out great. The audio, especially on my end, just isn't quite up to the usual standard.

00:02:48:04 - 00:03:05:22
Kyle
Even after spending a large amount of time trying to save it. But the kinks are now worked out, so all my future in-person episodes will have the same professional, crispy audio that you're used to. If you'd like to watch this interview. Check out the TCM YouTube channel. You can find the link in our show notes. One more thing I have a huge favor to ask you guys.

00:03:05:24 - 00:03:23:05
Kyle
Tcm's YouTube channel is currently at 665 subscribers. I really need to get that to a thousand with the number of listeners we get per episode. I know we can hit that number within the week. So even if you prefer to listen to your podcasts outside of YouTube, please head to the channel and hit the subscribe button.

00:03:23:05 - 00:03:23:13
Kyle
All right.

00:03:23:13 - 00:03:27:16
Kyle
Enough. Housekeeping. Let's get into my conversation with Andrew Fulton.

00:03:40:14 - 00:03:42:23
Kyle
You had talked a little bit about the development of climbing in

00:03:42:23 - 00:04:01:08
Kyle
Vegas. And I'm very interested in that because you're at least the first person I've had the opportunity to talk to who has been here for a large majority of the kind of boom that we've experienced here in Vegas as, as climbers. And obviously the curiosities have had a huge role in kind of the development there.

00:04:01:15 - 00:04:24:17
Kyle
So when you showed up in we was 91, right, 91, 82, 92, you said there's like 30 people climbing that are locals. You get people that come out here like, what was the scene like like how much had the realities? Developed at this point? Like, and then talk to me a little bit about, like, the progression that you've seen over the last 30 years.

00:04:24:29 - 00:04:42:24
Andrew
Okay. The scene. So there was no climbing gym here. So the scene was at Craft Rocks and Willow Springs. That's where people went. And that's where they were cracking and that's where they were bouldering. So after work, you know, you could go you could park right at the

00:04:42:24 - 00:04:43:03
Kyle
boulders.

00:04:43:07 - 00:04:45:28
Kyle
Well, where there were, there were housing developments out there.

00:04:45:28 - 00:04:48:17
Kyle
Yeah. Right there. That road that dead

00:04:48:17 - 00:05:10:25
Andrew
ends into craft rock, we could park right there. Okay. And it was incredible. And you'd go out there and Richard Harrison would be there, Danny Rider would be. Wendell would be there. Paul Van Beton might be there, the skis might be there. There was just this little scene of people, and that's where plans were kind of hatched from, like, oh, yeah, we're climbing this weekend.

00:05:10:25 - 00:05:27:13
Andrew
This is where we're going. You know, I was like, okay, cool. You know, on these guys, I Richard Harrison, I never roped up with him. Like went climbing. Climbing with him by a boulder with him around him a lot. You know, Richard had a fuzed hip. He had a hip thing. And so he would do these traverses and stuff.

00:05:27:13 - 00:05:46:02
Andrew
But, I mean, it was like when I found out that, like, what the Stone Masters were and this was a stone master, like one of the stone masters, it was like, couldn't get enough of hanging out with this guy. My friend Kevin did many, many climbing trips with Richard. So. And then Willow Springs, same thing. You'd go there on the weekend, and that's where people were cracking, you know?

00:05:46:02 - 00:06:12:22
Andrew
And if somebody wasn't there, you know, you're like, oh, well, they're probably out doing something mega. The Euro cities. George and Joanne, I met them, I probably met him at maybe at desert Rock sports, or there was another shop back then called Adventure Outfitters, and then there was Highland Outfitting, which closed down shortly shortly after I moved here.

00:06:12:28 - 00:06:37:26
Andrew
But George and Joanne had a pretty tight little scene. And like Joanne, you know, she left climbing for for a few years, and she got into running and she was an extreme trail runner. She did all those hundred miles. She's an incredible athlete. And, you know, so I didn't the first time I went over to their house had to have been in, in, 97.

00:06:37:26 - 00:06:59:10
Andrew
And when I wanted to put up, I was wondering why there was a line on the rainbow wall that wasn't done, and, and and, so somebody says, oh, I think George and Joanne have a root there. They didn't publish it. And so I think Mike Ward gave me their number. I called them and they invited me into their house.

00:06:59:12 - 00:07:21:15
Andrew
They said, well, come look at our our book. And they have this huge book with all these photos blown up of all the walls. And I was really cool, like their personal guidebook. Right. And, and, I mean, these people, you know, I'm just like, wow. It's like legends, you know, but a different style of legend than, like, the Richard Legend.

00:07:21:17 - 00:07:34:11
Andrew
You know, it was like there was kind of like this poo poo thing going on between both groups. Like one group put up roots for the adventure, one put up roots for other people. You know, that was the of cities theory put up beautiful roots for people to come and

00:07:34:11 - 00:07:36:29
Kyle
And they've done, you know.

00:07:37:02 - 00:07:42:15
Kyle
So I mean, yeah, you could pull up, pull up a guidebook here and flip to a page and you're going to find their name. Yeah.

00:07:42:15 - 00:07:43:26
Kyle
So

00:07:43:26 - 00:08:05:09
Andrew
I went over, they invited me to their house. George is a big beer drinker. I love drinking beer, too. And and, and and we, we went through this, this, book. And, the route that I was interested on was the the right shoulder of the rainbow wall. They called the bird hunter buttress. And, they said, oh, here's our route on it.

00:08:05:11 - 00:08:27:22
Andrew
I was like, well, why didn't you publish it? Oh, it's a very special route to us. And and, they got on the route, you know, they went up to the base of the wall and they traversed out onto the shoulder. And, on the second pitch or what they call a second pitch of a ledge, George got up there and found a perfectly intact Indian arrow with the arrowhead and the Fletchers and everything.

00:08:27:22 - 00:08:45:07
Andrew
So they were up there shooting it like a grouse. And we started our route way down low, right out a juniper canyon, almost. You, you, you climb the initial crack or where they have the fixed rope to get up to the rainbow while in the traverse to the right, getting this crack system that just goes up. And it was really, really cool.

00:08:45:09 - 00:09:05:24
Andrew
But, you know, it was cool being involved with both groups, you know, I had the opportunity to put up a route on Mount Wilson, the Blue Diamond Ridge, and Paul Van Benton, and it was like, you know, this was a guy that used to guide El Capitan, take the Navy Seals up it with Jay Smith. I mean, this guy has done so much stuff.

00:09:05:24 - 00:09:29:21
Andrew
I couldn't believe that, like, I, I met him at the boulders and I was like an obvious guy. And I said, I have this route that I want to do. It's not done yet. And he's like, when I told him about his like he lived in Blue Diamond, you know, he's like, oh, I know that route. And I said, you know, he's like, well, I don't think it's very good rock up there.

00:09:29:24 - 00:09:31:15
Andrew
And I said, but, but you can see.

00:09:31:15 - 00:09:33:03
Andrew
This from town.

00:09:33:05 - 00:09:53:28
Andrew
You know, you can see this line. And I'm really into routes that, you know, are that you can see from a long ways away. It's my favorite type of climb, whether it's Chaucer or Good Rock and the blue diamond ridge from the loading dock from most of the loading docks in Las Vegas. On the strip, when you look west, you can see that line in the morning on Wilson's beautiful.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:12:03
Andrew
So I got to go do that thing with him. And we didn't place in bolts and just had an amazing time and just, you know, he's like, he was stoked because, you know he's like the first grade five put up on Wilson was was the Woodrow by John Long and Richard Harrison. And he considered that route a grade five.

00:10:12:03 - 00:10:30:17
Andrew
I don't know if it's still considered that today, but it's like it's a second grade five. And I was just like, whoa, I can't believe we did this, you know? Amazing. You know, I wasn't even 30 years old yet. And, so, yeah, you know, I had the opportunity. It was a small scene. I got connected with the the core people pretty quick.

00:10:30:19 - 00:10:51:19
Andrew
And, you know, this this place just kept growing and growing, and it got on the radar is. This is a wonderful place to live if you want to be a climber. It's so accessible. We have Mount Charleston for summertime. We've got red rock, which is all season, you know, on the other side of town, you've got granite that you can go climb on.

00:10:51:26 - 00:10:58:00
Andrew
It's close to Zion, it's close to the Sierra, it's close to Joshua Tree. Like this became known as.

00:10:58:02 - 00:10:58:11
Andrew
A place

00:10:58:11 - 00:10:58:27
Kyle
place to be.

00:10:59:00 - 00:11:20:19
Kyle
Yeah. It seems like back in the day it was very much a free for all for first descents out here. And almost like that's what people were doing. You climbed and you did first descents out in Red Rock Canyon. Was there a lot of repeating routes going on? Okay, so there had already been like a, a number of routes that had been established that were classics that people were already repeating at this point.

00:11:20:21 - 00:11:43:26
Kyle
You know for sure, because now it seems like I don't know if I'm ignorant in this way, but like, there's definitely some people still putting up efforts in Red Rock Canyon. But to me, I guess I'm like glorifying the old days in a way where it's like this untouched landscape where there's just like, I mean, all these classics have yet to be done, and people are just putting up these roots like, it seems like such a such a different time than it is now.

00:11:44:05 - 00:12:00:18
Andrew
Yeah. I mean, it's unreal. I mean, on Mount Wilson, just. You just take that chunk of rock. I mean, it's a massive expanse of rock. I mean, in the 90s, you know? I mean, I mean, they're still putting

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:02:12
Kyle
that, you know,

00:12:02:12 - 00:12:03:14
Andrew
roots. And I'm talking about the

00:12:03:14 - 00:12:04:07
Kyle
Yeah.

00:12:04:07 - 00:12:06:25
Andrew
They you know, they had done gift to the Wind Gods.

00:12:06:25 - 00:12:11:22
Kyle
yeah. Wow. So they had already established a ton of roots by the time you even showed up.

00:12:11:25 - 00:12:12:17
Kyle
Oh.

00:12:12:19 - 00:12:15:04
Kyle
Yeah. How old were they when you showed up?

00:12:15:06 - 00:12:15:16
Kyle
Well,

00:12:15:16 - 00:12:21:26
Andrew
George had to have been in his.

00:12:21:29 - 00:12:23:08
Andrew
Mid 60s.

00:12:23:08 - 00:12:30:18
Andrew
I mean, Joanne is 20 years younger than George. I think, or at.

00:12:30:18 - 00:12:32:14
Andrew
Least 50.

00:12:32:14 - 00:12:35:10
Kyle
So like late 40s.

00:12:35:12 - 00:12:41:21
Kyle
Wow. So there had already been so much time passed by the time you showed up of them. Like putting up roots and climbing in that canyon.

00:12:41:29 - 00:12:43:07
Kyle
Wow. Oh yeah.

00:12:43:07 - 00:13:05:00
Andrew
I mean, you know, I mean, like I said, her book came out, I think it was like an 86. The next book after that was Todd's Wayne's Book. Todd Swain's guide book came out, you know, in Joanne's book, you know, this little book that's about like this thick, you know, and Todd Swain's just was

00:13:05:00 - 00:13:06:27
Kyle
included all this.

00:13:06:27 - 00:13:07:28
Kyle
Yeah.

00:13:08:00 - 00:13:08:22
Kyle
You know,

00:13:08:22 - 00:13:11:00
Kyle
interesting. Okay. That

00:13:11:00 - 00:13:17:28
Andrew
after Todd Roxanna did her book, you know, and then, of course, Jerry did his book and blew them all the way.

00:13:17:28 - 00:13:19:24
Andrew
And what's the point of doing a guide

00:13:19:24 - 00:13:22:15
Kyle
after Jerry had.

00:13:22:18 - 00:13:34:22
Kyle
Yeah. Okay. So the time frame in my mind was a bit diluted. I it's cool reframing there that there was already so much done by the time you showed up. Which is crazy because, yeah, I know that we're just sitting now where it's like the it's just so saturated, but

00:13:34:22 - 00:13:37:19
Kyle
it's been like that for so long. Yeah, it's interesting.

00:13:37:24 - 00:13:40:02
Andrew
what's great is there's still some plums to be picked out

00:13:40:07 - 00:13:58:18
Kyle
Oh for sure. There's plenty of people I know that are just crushing first descents out here. Still, the definitely it seems like they keep it to themselves. I mean, good for you because it's like it's for now. I, we talked to people like this before. It's like if you're developing in an area, you get to keep it to yourself as long as you want, and then you move on and then you release it to the public and then you, you know, it's like the cycle of a first develop.

00:13:58:18 - 00:14:06:14
Kyle
I'd be do the same thing as like it's my craving for a little bit. You guys, you know, I'm going to bring my friends and then when I'm done with it, I'll put a guidebook out or I'll put it on my own project or whatever.

00:14:06:14 - 00:14:29:09
Andrew
yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I still have some things that I've looked at on Mountain Project. I'm like, I cannot believe this haven't been done yet, this line. But, I just know that one day I'll look on there just like, just, you know, scrolling, like, oh, yeah, somebody did this, you know, I have some, some gear still hanging out there on some roots that I had to bail off of because of.

00:14:29:11 - 00:14:44:17
Andrew
Really probably needed a bolt, you know, and it was just like, oh, just hang in this out way too far here. Yeah. But, you know, it was it was really great. I feel grateful that I came here at that time, you know, and,

00:14:45:05 - 00:15:04:02
Kyle
For so I'm interested and on this note of history of Americana and I think, you know, you had mentioned the rainbow wall removal. Such an iconic piece of rock. If you're driving through the loop, it's all at least it's all I can look at. This is like, positioned up way behind Rainbow Mountain. It's just like this amphitheater 1000ft tall, just an iconic, iconic piece of rock.

00:15:04:02 - 00:15:25:20
Kyle
And, the obvious line that goes up, it is the original route. And, I have my own story with this route. But I've been on it. I've climbed it a couple times, but, you know, you know, our conversation we talked about kind of the history of the route itself, how it was originally an aid climb and someone came and basically sport bolted the whole wall.

00:15:25:22 - 00:15:38:29
Kyle
And then there has been, like, chopping and and McQuaid came back and actually, like, re bolted it and made it to the route that it is today. What do you know about that kind of process. And walk us through kind of the history of that route specifically?

00:15:39:01 - 00:15:39:24
Kyle
Well,

00:15:39:24 - 00:15:58:07
Andrew
coming here as a young man and first time driving the loop and I mean, that is when you pull into Pine Creek and you look up at that, there it is, the Grand is Cliff. I mean, there's bigger cliffs in Red Rock, but Rainbow Wall, you know, that. You just look up at that and you're just like, whoa.

00:15:58:10 - 00:16:17:17
Andrew
And June of 93, my friend Ted Steiner, who, he's up in Whitefish, Montana right now. He's ten years older than me, too. He flew down here and he and I went up there and did the rainbow wall

00:16:17:17 - 00:16:22:24
Andrew
over the course of three days, and it was we

00:16:22:24 - 00:16:29:17
Kyle
ate, climbed 98. Right. It's like you're just a

00:16:29:17 - 00:16:30:04
Andrew
climbing mode.

00:16:30:04 - 00:16:52:17
Andrew
Like I didn't even bring rock climbing shoes. You know, I just A's and, you know, hammers and pitons and, you know, bashing our way up that thing, dude. And it was, it was really challenging. In fact, the crux pitch, which I think was pitch three for aid climbing or whatever was so challenging, took me like seven hours to do, and I rappelled down.

00:16:52:17 - 00:17:13:15
Andrew
I was out of my mind. And Richard Harrison and Michelle looked, telling Shelby Shelton had just climbed the rainbow while recently and, me and my buddy hiked down from the rainbow while we hiked across the desert to the visitor center where there was a payphone and phone book hanging on it. And I looked up Richard Harrison's number and I called him.

00:17:13:15 - 00:17:21:10
Andrew
I said, hey, Richard Harrison, it's Andrew, and I met you at the boulders. I'm up at the rainbow wall right now. I know you just climbed it. I did pitch three. It was terrifying. So

00:17:21:10 - 00:17:28:17
Kyle
scary. Does it get harder? He's like, no, get back up there. We went back up there and and, we climbed

00:17:28:17 - 00:17:30:11
Andrew
and had a great experience.

00:17:30:18 - 00:17:52:07
Andrew
Well, in August of 93, I went back to do it with my friend Kevin Renacci. I mentioned his name already. And another fellow, Tony Ventimiglia, and another guy named Ed Chaska. And we got up there at the base of the wall and there was fixed ropes hanging down the whole thing and just a line of bolts. We started jogging up and it was just bolted, bolted, bolted.

00:17:52:10 - 00:17:54:26
Andrew
Crazy dude. Crazy bolts like six feet

00:17:54:26 - 00:17:55:09
Kyle
apart.

00:17:55:14 - 00:17:57:25
Kyle
Wow, wow. You didn't need

00:17:57:25 - 00:18:27:02
Andrew
No gear. And that night, the climber, two climbers, we saw headlamps coming up, and, the. I mean, this is local knowledge. I mean, it was a fellow named Leo Hansen. Really nice guy, good climber. Leo had just decided that, you know, I mean, the whole freeing of big walls was starting to happen, like, you know, a few years earlier, Todd Skinner and Paul Piana had done the solid wall in their way that they did it.

00:18:27:05 - 00:18:54:16
Andrew
And this was kind of a thing that was happening. Things were being freed, you know, aid climbs were being freed. And so, you know, this being a no man's land and just a free for all and really no local, cohesive climbing scene to speak of. You just go do whatever you want, you know, and so we'll just like he was doing the greatest thing ever, like, during a service and, you know, he came up there and I didn't really have the clout that, you know, Bernanke did.

00:18:54:18 - 00:19:15:19
Andrew
But it, you know, but I had done the route, so I, I paid my dues earlier and like and but Leo, he he didn't understand at all like, why we were upset at this. Right. And, so anyway, we did the climb that weekend. Had a fun time. Eight climbed right. Next was bolts clipped the bolts clipped the anchors.

00:19:15:19 - 00:19:35:14
Andrew
Like, okay, you know, this is a weird thing, but it's kind of nice having these bolts. And, had the nice experience on the over the rainbow ledge. That's a nice place to spend the night. And, we got up there, in, you know, hiked back down to town, and Kevin put the word out and called all those dudes, and then other guys found out.

00:19:35:14 - 00:19:52:13
Andrew
Then some guys from Boulder City, the boulder. There was always a Boulder City crew that climbed in red Rock to, you know, the keyhole crew that would come out to come out to Red Rock Lodge. And, Dan Briley, who ended up moving to Blue Diamond. I did a lot of fun climbing. Dan Briley. Another fellow, George Smith.

00:19:52:15 - 00:19:57:19
Andrew
These could have been somebody else, too, you know, they went to the top and they they chopped it.

00:19:57:19 - 00:19:59:26
Kyle
go. So now.

00:19:59:28 - 00:20:01:12
Kyle
Every bolt.

00:20:01:14 - 00:20:02:19
Kyle
Every bolt

00:20:02:19 - 00:20:28:05
Andrew
except for what was still original from Joe Hurst, you know, but I am pretty sure Leo might have left those but places, new ones. Or he might have removed Joe's stuff because most of Joe's stuff up there were star drives, you know, just easy back then, right?

00:20:28:07 - 00:20:50:20
Andrew
So anyway, then, McQuade. Yeah. He took up the torch and decided that, he would free this climbing style. So he went back up there and kind of fixed the route up a little bit, how he felt like it needed to be done to do what he needed to, to do. And he did his, variation of rainbow country, you know, at the same time.

00:20:50:20 - 00:21:11:17
Andrew
And so, you know, he freed the route and then he became then he did his, his link up rainbow country. And, I was fortunate, you know, we were working. Dan and I both did the same stuff for work. We did it for Randall. And. And then we got into the union doing the rigging stuff, and and he's just one day he's like, hey, man, I'm going to go climb, climb the original route tomorrow.

00:21:11:17 - 00:21:29:01
Andrew
Do you want to do it? And I was like, no, he's like, and I think you should you could free some of these pictures up there. And I was like, okay. And so I was really, really great going up there with him and getting his encouragement and, I freed, you know, I think is in there like in a, down low, like, pitched to were pitched three.

00:21:29:01 - 00:21:30:02
Andrew
It's like an 11 a

00:21:30:02 - 00:21:34:29
Kyle
crack pitch. Three. Yeah. It's really nice, really good. It's

00:21:34:29 - 00:21:52:05
Andrew
like, you know, as you evolve as a climber, you're like, God, I wish I just would have done it like this. Like a long time ago. It was so nice. What? You know, I. And then, yeah, we topped out and had a really great time where we did the route really quick, and I was just like, wow, you know, like, free climbing is awesome.

00:21:52:07 - 00:22:13:08
Andrew
It's awesome. I mean, it's good to be able to aid climb quick inclines. Not that great. You know, it's it's fun to like, do some scary aid moves and pull it off and kind of engineer stuff, you know, but free climbing, pass all that stuff that you. Oh, God. I just did some pretty cool moves here and. Oh, I would of aid climbing that put a hook in there, you know.

00:22:13:08 - 00:22:30:18
Andrew
So that was an awesome experience. And it just, you know, Rainbow Wall is like iconic, you know, formation up there. And I think a lot of people have just turned this thing into, turned that route into something that like when you because you've done it a bunch of times.

00:22:30:18 - 00:22:31:27
Kyle
You told me. Yeah, just

00:22:31:27 - 00:22:33:03
Andrew
up there and march up this thing

00:22:34:03 - 00:22:42:21
Kyle
I wouldn't say that. It's so whooped my ass, but it is a car. A car thing. That's awesome. Yeah, I think we did it in ten hours. Card, car or something like that.

00:22:42:28 - 00:22:45:06
Kyle
It's incredible. Yeah, just what a day, you know?

00:22:45:14 - 00:23:07:27
Kyle
What a day, what a day. That was so cool. That climb is so good. I don't want to blow it out, but, I mean, people already know about it. It's just freaking fantastic. Every pitch got every good. Yeah. Really good. Really hard. Like, I've talked about this too much on the on the show, but like I had a young kid, he was like 18 and he was I reached out to him on Instagram.

00:23:07:27 - 00:23:28:21
Kyle
I didn't even live here yet. And he had done it. And I was like, that's a dream climb of mine. And he was like, dude, you got it. And I was like, all right, fuck yeah, I believe this kid, you know? And so I just followed him up the whole wall. And so I just like it was the first time I'd ever even been on like 11 plus, 12 minus or sustained like 11 climbing.

00:23:28:27 - 00:23:46:09
Kyle
And I was able to do it on unfollow. And I was like, you know, just like, mind blown. This is what's possible. This is what climbing is. Wow. And like so then I like took it upon myself to like go build my skills and then come back at it with an equal partner to go swap leads and like actually go after it.

00:23:46:12 - 00:24:04:06
Kyle
And we were able to piece it together. I haven't read any of the route yet, but we've, I've been able to free the route, up to this point. So yeah, just an incredible route. Such a cool history. And what a cool experience to have seen it from aid to sport bolted to what it is now.

00:24:04:09 - 00:24:08:10
Kyle
I just thought that it was such a really cool, transition that you got to see the route go through.

00:24:08:18 - 00:24:09:07
Kyle
Yeah, I

00:24:09:07 - 00:24:41:19
Andrew
it was legit history. Yeah. I mean, just never forget we were like, oh yeah. It just it was being seen as a service to the community, you know, turning this thing that was. It was a parade climb, you know, everybody was in. So he was trying to do something that was becoming a style. But because he was into trad climber and mostly just a sport climber, it was hard to put the vision of what the possibility could be

00:24:41:19 - 00:25:04:09
Kyle
Yeah. No I totally understand for sure. Yeah. There's no I don't think it's cool to hear that. There's no mal intent. It's just like he was kind of a sport climber and he saw vision. It's like good for him, you know? Yeah. So that's cool. We had talked about risk a little bit, and I want to kind of like ask some of these questions to preface some of your closer calls in the mountains.

00:25:04:12 - 00:25:11:01
Kyle
So it sounds like, at least from our conversation before, you found pride in risky climbing. Is that true?

00:25:11:01 - 00:25:16:28
Andrew
Absolutely. And it is still something that I find pride in

00:25:17:16 - 00:25:29:24
Kyle
What a, So is it, is it is, so the risk, is it the risk or the fear or are they tied together? Like, do you like putting yourself in a position where you're scared and then overcoming it?

00:25:29:24 - 00:25:32:24
Andrew
Yes, that's absolutely what it is. It's it's

00:25:32:24 - 00:25:44:02
Andrew
I love being able to snap into the mindset of digging deep, going outside of myself to do something that I didn't think was going to be that

00:25:44:10 - 00:26:12:09
Kyle
Now, I think there's there's two. I totally understand that. I think you can do that without being fearful. You can like channel focus and execute something you thought was impossible, or you can go into a state of panic and still come out. The other side with that lesson is like your your pride. Is it related to being like entering that panic state and then coming out of it successfully, or is it just executing something that you've done?

00:26:12:15 - 00:26:12:25
Kyle
Absolutely.

00:26:12:25 - 00:26:31:05
Andrew
executing. I really take the, you know, when you choose to go do something like risk is, is is just dependent on where your skill is at your strength, your head, you

00:26:31:05 - 00:26:31:23
Kyle
know.

00:26:31:25 - 00:26:34:27
Kyle
And the objective you choose comparable to those skill sets.

00:26:34:27 - 00:26:54:02
Andrew
it, you know, like I enjoy I enjoyed the experience of climbing without a rope and I enjoyed the experience of climbing on a rope because I could take different risk as a safer risk.

00:26:54:05 - 00:27:18:19
Andrew
All right. You know, routes. Nick Nord bloom, maybe, you know, Nick and he put up the big horn buttress. He put up Archaeopteryx, he put up, some stuff with Richard on the, rainbow wall. I think he put up. He he actually, solo, Desert solitaire was one of Nick's routes, and he did that

00:27:19:15 - 00:27:21:19
Kyle
Free solo. Oh, rope.

00:27:21:19 - 00:27:22:14
Kyle
Solo rope.

00:27:22:14 - 00:27:23:14
Kyle
So I got it.

00:27:23:14 - 00:27:24:02
Kyle
Got on the

00:27:24:02 - 00:27:40:13
Andrew
rainbow wall, Bighorn Buttress Raptor, Archaeopteryx and Archaeopteryx was always a route that I looked at when, you know, it's on the aret of Triassic sands. And you look at that on the velvet wall, it's really striking, you know, it's like, man.

00:27:40:13 - 00:27:41:27
Andrew
I'd.

00:27:42:00 - 00:27:46:21
Andrew
Like to go, you know, do that route. Nick's really.

00:27:46:21 - 00:27:47:18
Andrew
Tall.

00:27:47:20 - 00:27:57:04
Andrew
And it's really important to understand who the guys were, who established routes, because, you know, if they were drilling, a lot of times they were drilling at their

00:27:57:12 - 00:28:03:25
Kyle
Way above their head. Yeah. You're gonna need to bring a stick, Cliff, with you. Yeah.

00:28:03:25 - 00:28:06:24
Andrew
I think he put up Sandstone Samurai,

00:28:06:24 - 00:28:07:26
Kyle
Oh, wow.

00:28:07:26 - 00:28:20:21
Andrew
on, on. I think I'm pretty sure maybe him and Richard did that. I'd have to be. We'd have to look in the book. But the question was, is about risk. And

00:28:20:21 - 00:28:28:07
Andrew
there's two styles of risk for me. There's the risk where I want to go see what this other person experienced to go do this.

00:28:28:09 - 00:28:46:07
Andrew
All right. So, you know, you call me up, you're like, Andrew, I just put up this awesome route, man. It's little, you know, go do it. Like, yeah I think I'm to go do that because we want to measure ourselves against each other. And that's what climbers do. You know, that's just something I think that's in every sport.

00:28:46:10 - 00:28:58:21
Andrew
You know, they have it in basketball. I mean, Michael Jordan face that every single game. You know, guys were trying to play at that guy's level. But you know and in climbing I think it's really easy to to do that as well.

00:28:58:21 - 00:29:06:19
Andrew
I think it's easier to go do first descents than to follow in somebody else's footsteps, because you're having to match their boldness and you're in the back of your mind.

00:29:06:19 - 00:29:10:05
Andrew
You're wondering, am I qualified to get to this person's level?

00:29:10:05 - 00:29:38:03
Andrew
But, never, ever have I been into the, the mode where fear is a motivator. Okay. I have had situations happen in my life where there was a fearful circumstance that motivated

00:29:38:03 - 00:29:39:12
Kyle
the energy.

00:29:39:14 - 00:29:42:29
Kyle
But you don't put yourself in situations where you know you're going to be out of control.

00:29:42:29 - 00:29:43:23
Kyle
In a way

00:29:43:23 - 00:29:44:09
Kyle
that.

00:29:44:12 - 00:29:45:19
Kyle
You don't seek that out.

00:29:45:19 - 00:30:15:05
Andrew
never, never. When I the first time, I always knew at some point I told you that I'd done some free soloing and, you know, free soloing up. And now, for me, was a benchmark for me. And, a lot of it had to do with, people that I had in my life. That was an important milestone in my world of climbing, you know, I hung out with guys who.

00:30:15:07 - 00:30:17:03
Andrew
That's what they did. They. That was a

00:30:17:03 - 00:30:17:23
Kyle
that they.

00:30:17:25 - 00:30:19:20
Kyle
It's like a normalizing factor.

00:30:20:02 - 00:30:38:09
Andrew
And, you know, having guided it many, many, many, many times, I mean, by the time the first time I went and did that route without a rope, I'd probably climbed over 50 times, probably down the chimneys even more. And in the back of my mind, I just knew, like, someday this, this will happen. I will do this. Someday.

00:30:38:10 - 00:31:04:29
Andrew
I don't know when, but someday I will be prompted and I will act on that prompt. And, when I did act on that prompt, part of the mindset was wondering what my mental headspace will be up there. Am I going to have these moments of regret where I'm up there, you know, wondering what I'm doing with my life and why I'm here right now and why I put myself in this situation.

00:31:05:01 - 00:31:26:26
Andrew
The answer to that is no. I never had any of those types of experiences. And that's what I call being a, you know, a samurai. You you go into battle, you know, you accept what the outcome, the circumstances and what the possible outcome can be. But you're just on this one path, and that is your only path you're focusing on.

00:31:27:10 - 00:31:30:25
Kyle
You don't have room for the fear to creep in in those moments in.

00:31:30:25 - 00:31:56:04
Andrew
else. And, so I really enjoy that. I enjoy getting into that state of mind. It's kind of a flow state, you know, I find climbing the climbing flow state to be a little different than the flow state of, let's say, on a bicycle, where on a bicycle, you know, you're you literally can check out and go, oh my gosh, where have I been for 35 minutes?

00:31:56:04 - 00:32:10:19
Andrew
I haven't even been conscious of myself. I just been in this flow state. You know, the only others I've experienced that in, in in bicycling and paddling, big paddles. You know, where you're just.

00:32:10:19 - 00:32:14:02
Kyle
it's like a disassociation. But in climbing, it's the opposite.

00:32:14:02 - 00:32:15:25
Andrew
It's the opposite. Yeah.

00:32:15:25 - 00:32:17:17
Kyle
It's like fully present

00:32:17:17 - 00:32:18:23
Andrew
Fully

00:32:18:23 - 00:32:44:09
Kyle
the most. The climbing has a has allowed myself to be the most present I've ever been. It is like cellular. Yeah. It's like such a hard thing to describe to people because I think the fear and the risk is part of that. It's like your life is on the line and you have to be so internally connected to be able to like stay in balance or perform the way you need to be to stay attached to the wall.

00:32:44:11 - 00:32:47:10
Kyle
And, there's just something so beautiful about that experience.

00:32:47:13 - 00:32:47:19
Kyle
There

00:32:47:19 - 00:32:52:03
Andrew
There sure is. And you know anthropologically when you look at it,

00:32:52:03 - 00:33:20:23
Andrew
you know, it was just a few hundred years ago that every day was a survival day for our, our, our relatives and that these instincts and these abilities are, are, are slowly leaving humanity as we know it today. And that's why I believe climbing and adventure sports are really, really important because, you know, I mean, you think about it.

00:33:20:23 - 00:33:22:17
Andrew
I mean, most of our

00:33:22:17 - 00:33:27:00
Andrew
probably, you know, the most serious thing that I did today was drive

00:33:27:00 - 00:33:30:22
Andrew
in Las Vegas. You know, I had to go downtown, I had to get on the

00:33:30:22 - 00:33:32:11
Kyle
can be pretty scary.

00:33:32:13 - 00:33:32:20
Andrew
Yeah.

00:33:32:21 - 00:33:33:14
Andrew
Can be pretty scary.

00:33:33:25 - 00:33:44:22
Andrew
And what makes it risky? All the other associated possibilities of of of factors that could go into this, basically being surrounded by people,

00:33:44:22 - 00:33:45:16
Kyle
just chaos.

00:33:45:21 - 00:33:46:12
Kyle
Chaos.

00:33:46:12 - 00:33:54:25
Andrew
you know, and when we get out there into this environment today, you know, we get to slow it down and we get to choose to put ourself into that situation.

00:33:54:25 - 00:33:56:17
Andrew
It's real. It's pretty beautiful, dude.

00:33:56:17 - 00:34:25:08
Andrew
You know, and so, you know, as a guide, one of the things that I, I know I always call myself a guide, I don't guide so much anymore. But I can go out there and guide today. I can take people up routes very safely. Whatever. And I enjoy teaching climbing, but one of the things that I noticed consistently with almost everybody is and this was just a simple thing, we are losing our ability to walk across terrain, and that's just a simple thing, you know, of just navigating across the desert.

00:34:25:11 - 00:34:41:29
Andrew
Because what I noticed is most of my. The hardest part of guiding was getting people up to Crimson Chrysalis not climbing, Crimson Chrysalis not getting down Crimson Chrysalis, but then getting back to

00:34:41:29 - 00:34:43:10
Kyle
call. That's where my

00:34:43:10 - 00:34:53:08
Andrew
my situations would happen, you know, literally, you know, that descent down off the Crimson, you know, down the hillside where Cloud Tower and all that, that I'm sure that it's just even worse than it was.

00:34:53:08 - 00:34:54:06
Kyle
It's pretty loose.

00:34:54:06 - 00:35:11:20
Andrew
pretty loose. You know, it's easy to have your feet skate out from underneath you. You land on your tailbone, and all of a sudden, you know, this person is, is, is hobbled, you know, it's I had a rule guiding, no jumping. We in fact, it's one of them. It's one of my rules today with myself.

00:35:11:22 - 00:35:41:00
Andrew
No jumping, no leaping. Because one of my classic sit situations was hiking into Cat in the hat and having a client, you know, the creek was flowing. It was springtime, you know, and I hop across the boulders and I turned to tell this lady like, hey, follow me. Just as she's kind of executing this, this nice little leap, and she leaps her, I see her foot land on a, you know, a round bowling ball style rock covered with wet water.

00:35:41:00 - 00:35:46:28
Andrew
And she, you know, and the rest of the day was spent with her foot in the creek in a beautiful

00:35:46:28 - 00:35:51:07
Kyle
thick, slow mo. You're like, no jumper.

00:35:51:07 - 00:35:54:18
Andrew
Yeah. And I remember I was like, I mean, her foot

00:35:55:03 - 00:35:55:20
Kyle
God.

00:35:55:20 - 00:35:57:19
Andrew
and I was like, oh, we got to get you out of here.

00:35:57:19 - 00:36:03:11
Andrew
And she's like, nope, I'm staying right here. We'll keep my foot in the creek. I hope you don't mind. I've paid you today.

00:36:03:11 - 00:36:04:28
Kyle
I was.

00:36:04:28 - 00:36:07:19
Kyle
Like, okay, can't argue with that.

00:36:07:19 - 00:36:14:13
Andrew
watched people on on Mescalero, you know, and and she talked about, you know, I just didn't realize that I shouldn't have done that.

00:36:14:13 - 00:36:17:07
Andrew
And I was like, I'm sorry I didn't tell you, you know.

00:36:17:14 - 00:36:19:09
Kyle
That's interesting, though. Yeah. You

00:36:19:09 - 00:36:30:28
Andrew
know, the risk is important, I believe, for, evolution because it propels in advancement within ourselves. It'll propel advancement within technology and stuff

00:36:30:28 - 00:36:50:24
Kyle
Like, I think I forget who who said this, but I love the idea of manufactured risk. It's like we we manufacture the risk ourselves. It's almost like work because otherwise it's like that chaos that we talked about. When we climb, it's like we're forcing ourselves into a controlled element of risk. And, there's something cool about that.

00:36:50:24 - 00:37:14:25
Kyle
And also, I think there's a tandem there with like, suffering. I feel like I have this mantra. It's not exactly really like true, but I feel like if you don't manufacture your own suffering, the universe will make you suffer on its own accord, according to chaos. And so like, choose to suffer in your own way and you might mitigate the world's random chaos of suffering upon you.

00:37:14:28 - 00:37:17:28
Kyle
And that's great. That's very cool. Now.

00:37:18:01 - 00:37:19:02
Kyle
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Kyle
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00:38:11:21 - 00:38:25:28
Kyle
All right. Story time. So, I want to talk about these, like, accident stories. You know, you teases out to me, and I think they're just like. They're just like the stories that you tell your entire life, you know, like the your kids are going to hear these. Your kids. Kids are going to hear these.

00:38:26:01 - 00:38:39:10
Kyle
And I'd like to, solidify them on the internet, if that's cool with you. So the first one, I think there's five, so you can be brief, you know, however you want to tell these, the first one is the the rockfall on during the wild turkeys.

00:38:39:14 - 00:39:07:00
Andrew
Dream wild turkeys. One of the most classic rock climbs. Traveled thousands of times. Why is there loose rock on this thing? All right, so I had the opportunity to. I was climbing a lot with a fellow, this fellow named Paul Chaska, who, just was really passionate about climbing, and he only at a certain grade. And that was basically five, eight.

00:39:07:03 - 00:39:28:24
Andrew
And I did, he wanted to dream a wild turkeys. And he saw me as a rope gun, you know. So we went out there. It was summertime, classic black velvet Canyon, one car in the parking lot, one car. There's a lot of climbs in Black Velvet Canyon, you know, what are the chances of this one other team being on the same

00:39:28:24 - 00:39:30:02
Kyle
route? Well.

00:39:30:04 - 00:39:34:13
Kyle
For Black Belt Canyon High, it's high, you know, happens to me.

00:39:34:15 - 00:39:35:17
Kyle
And so we

00:39:35:17 - 00:39:55:29
Andrew
we hiked in and and you know, he's like he was convinced I'd be on something else, you know. And we get in there and lo and behold, there they are. They're starting the first pitch. And I had climbed Frog Land before, wholesome fall back. What's the killer climb on the other side?

00:39:55:29 - 00:39:57:03
Andrew
A wholesome fall back that you repel

00:39:57:03 - 00:39:58:00
Kyle
our father.

00:39:58:00 - 00:40:21:04
Andrew
Our Father. I done these climbs right, but I hadn't been on the velvet wall yet. And so, you know, we're hiking into the velvet wall and get up there, and we see these guys on the first pitch, and the fellow leading is climbing very, very slow. And so it's like we can do the gobbler and the gobbler, you know, wishbones into, dream wild turkeys.

00:40:21:07 - 00:40:34:24
Andrew
Okay. What I knew at this time was climbing underneath people is a taboo. Okay? That Bill and Paul had told me that, you know, that you

00:40:34:24 - 00:40:39:09
Andrew
just. If somebody is on a route that you want to do, you go do something else. You wait till they're at the top.

00:40:39:09 - 00:40:50:09
Andrew
I didn't grow up with, or I wasn't really I didn't buy a helmet to go rock climbing for.

00:40:50:09 - 00:41:14:04
Andrew
Probably my first three years of climbing, you know? And then I decided, like, I should buy a helmet, you know, probably somebody had told me to maybe. Or maybe Randall had said, Randall, we didn't even have a rule that we had to guide with helmets. You know, I don't even think the clients wear helmets. You know, it's like it's a personal choice, you know, like how a stop sign isn't a personal choice,

00:41:15:08 - 00:41:15:16
Kyle
Yeah.

00:41:15:21 - 00:41:16:06
Kyle
It's like.

00:41:16:19 - 00:41:35:15
Andrew
So anyway, I didn't have a helmet on. And we went in there to do, we're on the gobbler. I climb the first pitch, and then the second pitch is a chimney, and I'm just. I'm floundering in this chimney, man, I, I just it's I think the chimney leans like this, and I was, I was scared. And anyway, the party, the other guy took over and they were climbing faster.

00:41:35:15 - 00:41:52:03
Andrew
And so we weren't going to get in front of them. And so the classic third pitch on Dream Wild Turkeys is that dihedral. The blaze right at the base. By the time we get there, the other party is up that the second is finishing that third pitch. About to get onto the big ledge, I asked permission to climb.

00:41:52:05 - 00:41:56:10
Andrew
They say yes, go ahead and climb. There's enough room up here for all of us.

00:41:56:10 - 00:42:15:00
Andrew
And so I start climbing up this dihedral, and at some point I'm here and I hear rock, rock. And I look up, man. And there's a rock the size of a baseball coming right down the dihedral at me. And I just squeezed in and held myself in, and I shook that rock.

00:42:15:00 - 00:42:19:05
Andrew
I'll never forget the sound right past the back of my head, and I literally thought I was

00:42:19:05 - 00:42:20:07
Kyle
no helmet.

00:42:20:07 - 00:42:28:19
Andrew
I had no helmet on and it went down and it, it hit my partner in the head and, knocked him out, and he had a helmet on

00:42:28:27 - 00:42:29:24
Kyle
He had a helmet on, you

00:42:29:24 - 00:42:32:19
Andrew
he had a helmet on. It always climbed with the helmet, a red helmet.

00:42:32:19 - 00:42:37:02
Andrew
I totally remember it. And, knocked him out.

00:42:37:02 - 00:42:58:16
Andrew
And, once again, it made me reflect back to when I went to your talk and you were talking about, like, you know, Blaine, what the standard belay device. If your partner were to be knocked out, you are no longer on belay. And I had that happen, and, you know, but instantly I put in a piece of gear, and I was.

00:42:58:18 - 00:43:24:22
Andrew
And, you know, he he he came to pretty quick. I mean, he wasn't knocked unconscious for like 30s he was like, boom out. And then, you know, you know, I'm back type of thing yelling at you. Okay. And, you know, the guys up above are freaking out and, and, and he's like, I'm okay, I'm okay. And, you know, if that would have been a piece of granite or limestone and it would've been lights out for sure.

00:43:24:25 - 00:44:00:15
Andrew
But sandstone exploded. So anyway, those guys rap down to him. I put myself on to their ropes and was able to get my gear out and get down to him, and we all went down together. And I remember that the fellow who dropped the rock, he was really, really upset because he had been the center of a serious rescue shortly before in Uri, where he had had a serious ice climbing accident and had been rescued by the the famous climber back then, Mark Wilford, big alpinist dude.

00:44:00:17 - 00:44:09:07
Andrew
And so this guy was really distraught and it was really, like you know, come to Jesus moment type of thing, like.

00:44:09:09 - 00:44:11:28
Andrew
Whoa, man. Like,

00:44:12:00 - 00:44:27:24
Andrew
You know, when, when we started up that when I started up that pitch, you know, I said, dad, we shouldn't climb underneath him. And he's like, there's no rock up there. This thing's been climbed a thousand times, you know? And it's the difference is, is what it boils down to is

00:44:27:24 - 00:44:38:14
Andrew
there's people who climb here regularly, I think as people who live here, who really know how to climb the stone.

00:44:38:17 - 00:44:49:18
Andrew
And then there's people who come here who are good climbers, who aren't adjusted to the stone as much because there's a certain way you grab certain styles of handholds here.

00:44:49:21 - 00:45:06:08
Andrew
It's just a certain way, man, and there's certain things that should be stood on, and certain things that shouldn't be stood on, and certain things that when you stand on them, you better be very conscious of. Yeah, that foot could break away at any second, just like a piece of cauliflower, especially the white sandstone.

00:45:06:19 - 00:45:07:10
Andrew
Right.

00:45:07:13 - 00:45:25:29
Andrew
So anyway, that was a really, really serious, situation where, you know, as I reflect back on my life of close calls, it's, you know, I probably had some as a young kid that, you know, I don't remember as much is, is is these ones that started when I started climbing.

00:45:25:29 - 00:45:29:01
Kyle
So that was the first. Did you wear a helmet afterward.

00:45:29:06 - 00:45:29:26
Andrew
Yeah.

00:45:29:26 - 00:45:40:28
Andrew
Yeah. I've had a helmet. Saved my life before. But probably not all the time. I probably was better at making the decision for a

00:45:40:28 - 00:45:43:26
Kyle
while. Not climbing under.

00:45:43:28 - 00:45:46:09
Kyle
Yeah. The lessons are learned, but not for a long time.

00:45:46:09 - 00:45:49:00
Kyle
Sometimes that's kind of my.

00:45:49:00 - 00:46:04:10
Kyle
Rule for helmets are try climbing or multipage helmets on. Yeah. That's it. Sport climbing. I kind of, like, make my own judgment call. But it's funny, like, after my accident when I was talking with Max, if you go back to these old episodes, I'm like.

00:46:04:12 - 00:46:09:15
Kyle
Wear a helmet every time you're. If you wear a helmet every time there's no excuse.

00:46:09:17 - 00:46:26:10
Kyle
You know, and like, here I am three years later, it's like. And I'm justifying it again. It's like, okay, while sport climbing, I don't wear a helmet anymore. It's like it's a hard thing to draw on. It is like we talked about in the beginning. It's a personal decision. You just have to know what you're risking. And we all make risk assessments when we climb every day.

00:46:26:10 - 00:46:36:20
Kyle
And it's like you, you know, you chose to climb under a party without a helmet. Your odds are going up kind of high. So it's just like judgment calls we all make for sure. Yeah.

00:46:36:20 - 00:46:50:21
Andrew
well, the thing about head injuries, too, I mean, there's so many other injuries that can happen to the body that if your body doesn't recuperate from them, you can still have a pretty good life. But head injuries are a whole different ballgame.

00:46:50:21 - 00:46:58:11
Kyle
So protect your head. What about 94? Lady Wilson's cleavage?

00:46:58:13 - 00:47:00:07
Kyle
Yeah. What happened there? So

00:47:00:07 - 00:47:19:27
Andrew
I'm up on Lady Wilson's cleavage with my buddy Ted Steiner, who I did the rainbow wall with. In 93. That original lost scent of maybe the root in its original, condition. So we went up to Lady Wilson's cleavage. This was spring. It was March. I remember. Right at the base, there was still a snowbank.

00:47:20:00 - 00:47:37:24
Andrew
And, you know, I had climbed this was I had already climbed the resolution. Right. So I was all about taking taking some routes on Mount Wilson. Right. And Lady Wilson's cleavage five, eight. And, you know, if I'd call George and Joanne and proposed climbing this, they probably would've said, no.

00:47:37:24 - 00:47:39:11
Andrew
Don't, don't go to that route. You know.

00:47:39:11 - 00:47:41:19
Andrew
Joanne had a really terrible experience on it, too.

00:47:41:25 - 00:47:43:17
Kyle
During the FAA or just general

00:47:43:17 - 00:48:13:09
Andrew
first ascent, she took a huge fall, huge fall up there. And, so anyway, you know, Lady Wilson's cleavage is basically a drainage. That's what it is. It's just a wide crack that drains this little specific area of Mount Wilson up there. And the first pitch is actually really great. It's a nice off with full of those cool, small, wackos that are like the size of little holes putting it, you know, pretty cool, fun to climb that stuff.

00:48:13:13 - 00:48:35:21
Andrew
But then after that, it turns into a gravel and, you just better have your off with on, man. And, I didn't know to haul my pack between my legs at this point was on my back and my partner and everything like that. And so anyway, we climbed really, really slow and that second to last pitch up there, you're in this big bomb bay chimney.

00:48:35:23 - 00:48:55:28
Andrew
You have to climb up, you have to do a traverse out, and then you get into a gully system that leads up to a ledge that has a big ponderosa pine tree on it. You can see that from down on the road and when it was dark, bye bye now. And, it wasn't daylight savings time yet, I believe.

00:48:55:28 - 00:49:20:29
Andrew
Or the days weren't long yet. And Ted led that pitch. And when he got into that gully up there, he's like, hey, Andrew, there's a ton of loose rock in this thing full of pine needles. And, it's loose. He goes, I'm going to climb over the stuff, but we got to stay heads up in there. And what didn't happen was some type of a directional place to keep the rope out of dragging through the gully.

00:49:21:01 - 00:49:41:15
Andrew
So when it became my turn to climb the pitch and I climbed up the bomb bay, and then I did the traverse out and I was turning this kind of bulge into this gully. As I was turning the bulge, I heard the the sound of like when a dump truck first starts to dump its, its load, when the load shifts.

00:49:41:18 - 00:49:48:00
Andrew
So it was like, loud sound.

00:49:48:02 - 00:49:49:04
Andrew
You know.

00:49:49:06 - 00:49:53:16
Andrew
And I realized, I'm in the throat. I'm in this thing like, whoa.

00:49:53:19 - 00:49:54:29
Andrew
Okay.

00:49:55:02 - 00:50:04:03
Andrew
And then so I start getting up into the gully and then all of a sudden the thing cuts loose, man. And, I could.

00:50:04:03 - 00:50:05:05
Andrew
Just. I could hear.

00:50:05:05 - 00:50:36:12
Andrew
The whole thing just moved in. Maybe Ted yelled, screamed rock or something, but I just immediately dove out into space and all that debris came down on my back in my legs and, crushed me, you know, against the wall. And it was absolutely unbelievable that the rope didn't get cut like I, I'm, I think about that sometime like, wow, man, that was amazing.

00:50:36:17 - 00:51:04:25
Andrew
And I think it's because I dove I dove out like that. So I pulled the rope out of the gully a little bit as that stuff came down on me. And I mean, because if the rope would have got cut, it would have been, you know, 800ft down. So I couldn't, I was really messed up from that, just smashed and, couldn't my lower lumbar, my back, my legs, I could hardly stand.

00:51:04:27 - 00:51:26:22
Andrew
And so talk about a great anchor. Got this giant Ponderosa up there, and Ted, he, had, rescue skills. He knew how to set up a compound system, and he just basically pulled me up that. And we got to that, and, I was so nervous about that gully going again. Really nervous. But it didn't.

00:51:26:24 - 00:51:50:04
Andrew
And then we stayed on that ledge for maybe an hour and a half, and then he climbed the last pitch to the rim of Wilson, and then he called me up that and we hung out up there for a couple hours, and then, I, I still couldn't hardly walk. We, you're at that south end of Wilson above that big drainage that goes down into First Creek.

00:51:50:07 - 00:52:11:25
Andrew
I basically just. But scooch all the way down into First Creek. Got down into First Creek, probably at like two in the morning, something like that. And then was able to hobble and he was able to hold me up and stuff. So that was a real serious close call. And, Joanne's son Danny, curiosity had the same thing happen to him there.

00:52:11:25 - 00:52:12:19
Andrew
He was hit by rockfall

00:52:12:19 - 00:52:13:18
Kyle
same gully.

00:52:13:18 - 00:52:26:19
Andrew
Same gully. This thing is just full of debris. And I think that, you know, there's pine, Ponderosa up there. Just shedding those needles in there. Just. It sets it up for just,

00:52:26:23 - 00:52:27:22
Kyle
Lack of friction.

00:52:27:24 - 00:52:28:02
Kyle
Yeah.

00:52:28:02 - 00:52:29:25
Andrew
Yeah, yeah. Things just to go.

00:52:29:25 - 00:52:32:03
Kyle
Wow. Got lucky on that one.

00:52:32:06 - 00:52:41:28
Kyle
Yeah. That that descent is also not to be underestimated. Even with a fresh pair of legs. It's a long, long.

00:52:42:01 - 00:52:43:14
Kyle
It's.

00:52:43:17 - 00:52:51:10
Kyle
They need to make some like super sick or Apple that line. I guess you could do a horseshoe all if you wanted to, but, it's.

00:52:51:10 - 00:53:02:04
Andrew
dudes who are into doing dogma. Yeah, my buddy Flying Brian, he put up dogma, and. And that was the way you did it, you know? And I'm like, just go rap dogma. And I was like, well, if I knew where dogma

00:53:03:05 - 00:53:04:28
Andrew
you know, I never went to go climb. It's supposed to

00:53:05:05 - 00:53:07:18
Kyle
I know it's on the list. It's supposed to be good.

00:53:07:18 - 00:53:10:28
Andrew
you know, and see and, you know, sustained.

00:53:10:28 - 00:53:12:10
Kyle
mostly Bolton.

00:53:12:10 - 00:53:15:25
Andrew
Yeah. Flying Brian routes a serious route. It's like doing a Joe Herb Street, you

00:53:16:24 - 00:53:37:10
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm looking forward to, maybe either the fall of the spring season for sure. Yeah. All right. 2 or 3, I love it. This one, the first set of the south face of Bridge Mountain, with the, the fire and the psychedelics. Yeah. Let's hear that story.

00:53:37:24 - 00:53:58:24
Andrew
Surface face bridge, mountain, Pisces wall. We named it the Pisces wall because of that big red fish up there, you know, and that's the longest water streak in in red rock. That water streak is legit 1000ft. And, my buddy Dan Briley, he had wanted to climb that. And, Richard Harrison, I asked him, you know, I said, why?

00:53:58:25 - 00:54:23:07
Andrew
Why didn't you ever climb that? Because it literally was like, probably the last great chunk of rock that hadn't been climbed. And, you know, he did his route on the lost. You know, they did the Buffalo wall, his routes up there. And then he did that route in the very back of, Wall Paiute Wall. Yeah. So you know, he did some stuff and I think that, you know, way, way back there stuff.

00:54:23:07 - 00:54:41:20
Andrew
And I think he just was like, you know, Andrew, I just I've lost interest on these long approaches and stuff like that. And, and he's like, but that is cool, cool line. And and like I said, Dan Riley really was stoked on this thing. So I was like, okay, man, let's let's go do this thing. And it was going to be a siege.

00:54:41:20 - 00:55:02:13
Andrew
It was like a siege. All right. So really great. One of the things I'd always wanted to do was, you know, check the historical box that our climbing forefathers experienced on El Capitan in the 1970s, which was like, I really want to experience what it would be like to, probably

00:55:02:13 - 00:55:06:05
Kyle
go to another world up there on this wall, you know, and,

00:55:06:05 - 00:55:15:11
Andrew
so I had decided that, yeah, it'd be fun to eat some mushrooms up there at our bivouac and just really have a great experience.

00:55:15:14 - 00:55:22:17
Andrew
Well, one of the things I always also loved to do in Red Rock, and this was another Richard thing, was how fires.

00:55:24:06 - 00:55:26:18
Kyle
Yeah. On the wall. Yeah.

00:55:26:21 - 00:55:26:26
Kyle
It's

00:55:26:26 - 00:55:31:04
Andrew
me he's like, Andrew, there's wood everywhere, man. You can always have a little fire in Red Rock. It's really, really great.

00:55:31:06 - 00:55:51:10
Andrew
And, and so I was like, okay, so Rainbow Wall, I had a huge fire and one time that's a whole other story. I can share that some time. But we had this huge fire up there and, the bivvy ledge on the Pisces wall, kind of like this two three tiered stair step thing, about five, 600ft up there.

00:55:51:10 - 00:56:12:29
Andrew
And then there's kind of an alcove where we put this big fire and built this big fire ring and had this massive bonfire. And, we lived in Blue Diamond at the time. And, Dan Bradley's wife was was and my wife, they were both expecting our my second kid hurt his first kid, and he had the old school brick giant cell phone.

00:56:13:02 - 00:56:25:10
Andrew
And his wife made him have that, you know, call and you could get reception because the cell tower was at Bonnie Springs. Right. So we had this huge fire and we're on the phone and everybody was in our front yard and Blue Diamond, they could

00:56:25:10 - 00:56:27:29
Kyle
something. Yeah.

00:56:27:29 - 00:56:30:10
Andrew
And, so they didn't know we were tripping.

00:56:30:16 - 00:56:57:18
Andrew
And so then we hang up and everything. We're having a great time and it was really a great experience until it wasn't and the wasn't part. All of a sudden there was like the sound of a rifle shot, and at that instant it was burning embers and coals and flames raining down on us. And what had happened was my my rock fire ring sandstone.

00:56:57:20 - 00:57:03:24
Andrew
This was the early spring. We'd had a wet winter, stuff was full of moisture and these rock start

00:57:03:24 - 00:57:07:22
Kyle
Jesus comes

00:57:07:22 - 00:57:26:01
Andrew
comes raining down, dude. And you know, most of this stuff that you're burning on these ledges is old oak. You know, it's all these scrub oak stuff. And so it's kind of a hardwood. It's old, burnt hot and long big coals, coals this big on our ropes, melting our ropes on our sleeping bags, on everything.

00:57:26:01 - 00:57:47:05
Andrew
It was so terrible. We're dumping water out. And, oh, man. At one point, you know, I mean, stuff went over the ledge and, down there at the base of the Pisces wall or some huge ponderosa pine trees and, dance like we gotta go down. We gotta go down. It's probably on fire down there. And I was like, literally.

00:57:47:08 - 00:57:51:09
Andrew
It wasn't like a physical restraint, but I was like, I had to restrain. And I was like, dude, we can't

00:57:51:09 - 00:57:51:17
Kyle
there?

00:57:51:17 - 00:57:53:16
Kyle
We're not doing that.

00:57:53:21 - 00:57:56:21
Andrew
We like Pie Creek on fire. Well, that's our destiny,

00:57:56:21 - 00:57:57:25
Kyle
So

00:57:57:25 - 00:58:12:12
Andrew
And we stayed up there all night, passed out. And when I wake up in the morning, I'm just kind of like laying there. He's just against the. He's just looking at me, and I'm laying there like a puddle of mud, and I'm like, I'm so sorry, dude, because I just wanted to go climb.

00:58:12:12 - 00:58:17:26
Andrew
And Andrew, I just want I know, dude, it's my fault. The mushrooms, the fire.

00:58:18:29 - 00:58:34:22
Andrew
have to take it all into the next level. And, so anyway, we had to come home. We had to tie ropes together. When I'm saying ropes were completely melted, we we had to tie ropes together to get down. And we showed up, you know, three days before we were supposed to, our wives were like, what are you doing here?

00:58:34:22 - 00:58:37:09
Andrew
We're like, you know, tell him some B.S. story.

00:58:38:03 - 00:58:56:10
Andrew
so then a couple weeks later, we, we go back up there to do it again, and, no mushrooms this time. And, that's when we had a great experience with bees. A huge swarm of bees came up the wall. I got covered with gazillion bees, but he's like, they're they're moving the queen, so they're not going to sting.

00:58:56:19 - 00:58:58:20
Kyle
Heck it is. Imagine he's like screaming down at you.

00:58:58:20 - 00:59:04:26
Kyle
They're moving the Queen. Just stay chill. And you're like, what the fuck?

00:59:04:26 - 00:59:20:22
Andrew
But it was amazing how the canyon filled with this hum and you know, that south face just heating up and no as a paraglider now you know, now I completely understand what was happening. Those bees were riding the thermal right up that canyon, that heat right up that wall. And you know, ten minutes later they were gone and it.

00:59:20:23 - 00:59:42:29
Andrew
But but the sound in that canyon coming towards us was like, whoa, what is going on? So that was really cool. And then we topped out on the water streak and Dan was done. He's like, I've done it. I've climbed the water streak. This is great, you know? Awesome. And and, that last pitch was, was like lots of bat hooks and then a bolt, lots of bat hooks and then a bolt.

00:59:42:29 - 00:59:46:28
Andrew
And that's kind of how that pitch was. And,

00:59:46:28 - 00:59:47:07
Kyle
are you,

00:59:47:07 - 00:59:50:24
Kyle
are you bat hooking natural features. Are you, you're drilling. Yeah.

00:59:51:03 - 01:00:03:25
Andrew
drilling. And the drill we had was a Bosch Bulldog modified with a motorcycle battery. So we'd wear a backpack and there was a motorcycle battery in the backpack and then an extension cord coming

01:00:04:27 - 01:00:06:07
Andrew
And then we had unlimited

01:00:06:17 - 01:00:07:08
Kyle
Wow.

01:00:07:08 - 01:00:07:28
Andrew
it. We never

01:00:07:28 - 01:00:10:17
Kyle
Is that a common thing? Have you heard our other people do that,

01:00:10:17 - 01:00:11:17
Andrew
knew Dan did

01:00:13:00 - 01:00:14:14
Andrew
there, he is, a classic

01:00:14:14 - 01:00:16:00
Kyle
like some Megatron shit

01:00:16:00 - 01:00:17:20
Andrew
Dan Bradley is his thing on

01:00:18:03 - 01:00:18:24
Kyle
Okay.

01:00:18:26 - 01:00:20:01
Kyle
Cool. Dude, I think he was.

01:00:20:04 - 01:00:21:03
Kyle
That's legendary.

01:00:21:06 - 01:00:21:13
Kyle
Legend

01:00:21:13 - 01:00:22:26
Andrew
legend down legend dude.

01:00:22:26 - 01:00:35:10
Andrew
So anyway, climbing that water streak was not good enough for me. We got to go to the summit, and we need to put up these pictures on the south face of the dome of the summit.

01:00:35:12 - 01:00:55:29
Andrew
And so there's when you're when you look at the south face of the dome, there's these two diagonally, left leaning cracks. We climbed the left. One of the two. And that's two pictures. And we got up there and, I did the first pitch. It was some free climbing, some bolts, a little bit of aid climbing.

01:00:55:29 - 01:01:21:15
Andrew
And obviously the top of, of Bridge Mountain is all that white, friable rock, downward angling like shingles. Right. So it's just like, it's not the funnest to climb. So anyway, then when we, I got that first pitch, got anchors in, we left some ropes, rappelled back down, spent the night at our camp, jumped back up the next day, went back up there, got up the first pitch.

01:01:21:17 - 01:01:42:23
Andrew
Now we're going to the second pitch and the second pitch of the dome that leads us to the summit. A bridge mountain was, right out. It was, the belay was kind of beneath, underneath an overhang here. And you had to climb out underneath this overhang like this roof and go up into this groove that led led up to the top.

01:01:42:25 - 01:02:07:23
Andrew
And so Dan Bradley was kind of in this protected zone where he couldn't see what was going to be going on up here and right off of the belay, like ten feet off of the belay. I found this really cool placement. As climbers, we love cool placements. Just imagine an egg extracted from the rock. So that was the shape in the rock and it took a number two Camelot gold Camelot perfect horizontal.

01:02:07:25 - 01:02:26:24
Andrew
I mean, just so perfect. I said, Dan, you're going to love this placement, dude. It's cool. He's like, all right, put a long sling on it. And what's amazing is I actually was like, I should I place it now? I don't know, and then I'm fine. I was like, the uniqueness of this, I'm doing it all right. If I hadn't done that, I is yeah.

01:02:26:24 - 01:02:47:13
Andrew
If I hadn't done that. So now I'm going up this groove and basically what I'm doing is I'm drilling these hook holes, top stepping on my atriums, just leapfrogging all the way up and in my I decided I was going to put up the scariest hooking pitch ever in Red Rock. That's what I was going to do. And he's like, dude, just place a bolt now come on.

01:02:47:13 - 01:03:08:26
Andrew
I'm like, nope, because I was like, no one's ever going to come and do this again. So why not just make it like, yeah, no one's going to do this, right? So who, very last one. And when I say I was top stepping on the top atria, then drilling my next hole, putting my next bat hook in it.

01:03:08:26 - 01:03:32:21
Andrew
So, you know, leapfrogging that I got up to the very last one and there was a ledge that I was going to step on to and put the belay. I drilled my last hole and I tapped my bat hook into it, and I stepped on it, bounced, tested. It felt really great. Climbed up on it, took the atria out from underneath of me, climbed up onto this thing, top stepping.

01:03:32:24 - 01:03:52:22
Andrew
And as I was taking, you know, a double set of aiders and took one foot out of one of those aiders, and I was steaming over on to this ledge, bam! That hook popped off just like that. I had a helmet on and, I just started falling, and I, I, I accepted my feet. I said, you're going to die, Andrew.

01:03:52:24 - 01:03:56:24
Andrew
Just like that. And, you've heard of fainting

01:03:56:24 - 01:03:57:27
Kyle
Yeah.

01:03:57:27 - 01:04:14:21
Andrew
fainting goats? So in that type of a situation, I fainted where I was like, I'm dying. There's there's just there's nothing I can do to correct this. You know, in the world of paragliding, you're falling, you have a parachute, you fight till the very, very end trying to make this all happen.

01:04:14:26 - 01:04:22:12
Andrew
But in climbing, there ain't much you're going to do, all right? It is what it is. And so all's I remember was a. Yeah

01:04:22:12 - 01:04:26:19
Andrew
bam bam. And that was

01:04:26:19 - 01:04:28:09
Kyle
head to this

01:04:28:09 - 01:04:37:12
Andrew
because I'd start sliding down the slab and got flipped upside down. Well, because damn Brylee was underneath this overhang and all this rope was just kind of piling

01:04:37:12 - 01:04:38:08
Kyle
from downwards.

01:04:38:08 - 01:04:39:21
Andrew
I flew past his head.

01:04:39:22 - 01:04:40:13
Andrew
He never even knew

01:04:40:17 - 01:04:41:14
Kyle
Wow.

01:04:41:14 - 01:04:49:05
Andrew
And when I landed, when I came, I landed on that number two Camelot in that white sandstone

01:04:49:05 - 01:05:10:20
Andrew
that kept me from hitting the ground, the base of the dome. And when I came to. I was spinning in space. I couldn't believe it. I was like, I'm alive. And then, you know, I'm like, check it. I'm like, wow. And he's. I just hear him yelling and yelling my name. I'm like, I'm okay.

01:05:10:20 - 01:05:20:11
Andrew
I'm okay. Oh, I'm below 100ft. And, I'm like, what happened? Everything seems to solid

01:05:20:11 - 01:05:21:28
Andrew
So I'm like, I got to figure this out.

01:05:21:28 - 01:05:42:23
Andrew
So I relayed the pitch. I got up there and what I had done was I had, drilled a hole. If you imagine oatmeal cookie about that big. It was. It was a flake pasted to the wall. And I could have taken my hammer and it just would have popped it off. But I was just in this frame of mind, and that's what I drilled my hole in.

01:05:42:23 - 01:06:03:27
Andrew
And it was acceptable for straight up and down. But as soon as I stepped to the right, I sheared it off and you could barely even see the divot of the drill bit, barely even broke through that thing. So I re drilled the hole in and did the move and bolt put the anchor there and obviously, just going, wow.

01:06:06:11 - 01:06:08:04
Kyle
You know, what's the rail called?

01:06:08:25 - 01:06:09:25
Andrew
It's just the south face of the

01:06:09:28 - 01:06:11:08
Kyle
South base of the Pisces. Well,

01:06:11:08 - 01:06:12:03
Andrew
south face bridge

01:06:12:03 - 01:06:13:13
Kyle
has it hasn't seen a repeat.

01:06:13:27 - 01:06:14:19
Andrew
I have no.

01:06:14:19 - 01:06:14:26
Andrew
Idea.

01:06:14:26 - 01:06:19:25
Kyle
know, I'm sure if they did, they would have reached out to you and just been like, you're insane.

01:06:19:27 - 01:06:20:02
Kyle
A

01:06:20:02 - 01:06:46:24
Andrew
a few years later, I went, and this was in the early 2000. I hiked to the summit and repelled the route and my all my original webbing was a pink webbing. It was still there, bleached white. I'm sure somebody would have a replaced it by now, but, you know, it was one of these climbs, I think I explained it was like, it's not I'm proud that I, I, we did that in it's cool and everything.

01:06:46:24 - 01:06:59:24
Andrew
But as far as like, you know, great climbing style. It was terrible climbing style. You know, I basically murdered the impossible, which is the Reinhold Messner manifesto of like when

01:06:59:24 - 01:07:00:08
Kyle
my.

01:07:00:11 - 01:07:02:06
Kyle
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:02:06 - 01:07:03:27
Andrew
secretary. You know, I

01:07:04:03 - 01:07:05:22
Kyle
You manufactured a root.

01:07:05:24 - 01:07:07:03
Kyle
Yeah,

01:07:07:03 - 01:07:15:07
Andrew
Like. And maybe, you know, I don't know. I was never in the frame of mind of exploring extreme possibilities for free climbing.

01:07:15:09 - 01:07:26:16
Andrew
That wasn't in my realm, you know, I was bolder, or I look at something like a boulder type thing. But, you know, I'm amazed at climbers who free things that seem to be impossible back in the day. It's so I always wondered about that.

01:07:26:16 - 01:07:54:08
Kyle
Let's be real for a second. The current blueprint for a successful climbing podcast is simple. Interview the best climbers in the world. Big names mean big followings. Lots of SEO power and a built in audience that helps boost every episode. But this show, this show has never been about that. From the beginning, I have made it my mission to bring you stories from the climbing majority, the climbers who don't live in the limelight, the ones who avoid interviews, quietly put up roots and give back in ways that are rarely recognized.

01:07:54:12 - 01:08:11:01
Kyle
And while that's what makes this show special, it also means we have an uphill battle when it comes to growth. And that is where you come in. If you're psyched about the show, if you've been inspired, entertained, or fired up about an episode. Word of mouth is the single most important way you can help the show. Share an episode with a friend.

01:08:11:05 - 01:08:28:19
Kyle
Play one on a group road trip. Post about the show on social media. Jump onto Reddit threads and Mountain Project forums and share with people what you've been listening to. Be sure to tag the show, tag your favorite guests, and spread the word. And if you want to help even more, I'm currently sending posters to climbing gyms around the country.

01:08:28:23 - 01:08:41:29
Kyle
If you'd like to support one in your climbing gym, be sure to reach out. Email me at the Climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com and I will be sure to send you one. Let's band together and show the climbing community that the climbing majority has a voice.

01:08:41:29 - 01:09:04:17
Kyle
So all these risky kind of close calls that you had, we talked a little bit about, like the kind of the lessons we learned and how they fade a little bit with time. What about like actually decompress mentally after something so intense and like I would say, traumatic, but it's almost like you escaped the trauma because nothing actually bad happened.

01:09:04:19 - 01:09:29:20
Kyle
So like, how is there like a process of decompression that you go through after something like that, or does it affect you for a certain amount of time? How are you moving past the situations like that? Well, because for some people, I think even the first one, some people could retire from climbing immediately. And you've had for, you know, you just told me for close calls of life kind of threatening moments in the mountains, like, yeah.

01:09:29:20 - 01:09:32:05
Kyle
What's that process of getting back to the sport? And why do you come back?

01:09:33:05 - 01:10:09:06
Andrew
I've never struggled, with getting back on the horse. Yeah, it doesn't seem. You know, after all those situations that I described to you, or that I just told these stories that I told, I don't ever remember, reflecting back on my fragility of of, you know, even when I started having kids, man, you know, and, you know, obviously, this kind of stuff was was tough on my wife, you know, that I was out there, you know, I didn't hide these stories for them.

01:10:09:06 - 01:10:33:02
Andrew
Yeah, maybe. I think she knows everything. There's nothing she doesn't know. But no, I never really had, a situation where I was like, man, I, I don't think I'll ever do that again. You know, my situation in the maze where that flash flood came through, I think I told you that story. I have not done a canyon since then.

01:10:33:04 - 01:10:38:21
Andrew
I have had no desire to get myself down into a deep abyss that's full of water.

01:10:38:21 - 01:10:40:00
Kyle
Fair enough.

01:10:40:19 - 01:10:59:10
Andrew
I literally, I mean, and I think what it has to do with the circumstances of what I call a quick death, you know, the quick death is the way to go. That's the lucky, you know, like, lights out, you know, but something that's a prolonged something or other.

01:10:59:12 - 01:11:25:04
Kyle
Like just a death. It involves lots of suffering over a certain amount of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to sign up for that. The thing is, though, it's like you could die a horrible, suffering death climbing. Like, let's say you fall and you survive the initial impact, but you're alone and you were soloing. Oh, it's like there are I mean, obviously you can concoct, an endless amount of possibilities of ways to die in the mountains.

01:11:25:06 - 01:11:29:14
Kyle
But, I mean, I agree with you. I think, quick death is obviously the easiest way to go.

01:11:29:16 - 01:11:30:06
Kyle
Yeah.

01:11:30:09 - 01:11:32:19
Kyle
But I don't know if that's really guaranteed in climbing.

01:11:32:23 - 01:11:33:01
Kyle
No,

01:11:33:01 - 01:12:00:08
Andrew
No, it's not. I mean, there's just so many amazing stories of of guys that have had. I mean, they survived. Incredible. I mean, Joe Simpson's touching the Void. What happened to him? You know, Chris Bonnington and Doug Scott when they were on the ogre over there in Pakistan. Oh my God, insane stories of these guys crawling for days with broken legs and and you're just like, yeah, I often wonder

01:12:00:08 - 01:12:01:01
Kyle
would, I.

01:12:01:04 - 01:12:13:01
Kyle
Would, I survive? I don't think I would, I don't, I talk about, like, I would die, you know, I would probably just like, say my prayers in the cross and just kind of go to sleep, you know? It'd be too easy.

01:12:13:01 - 01:12:14:03
Andrew
yeah, have you.

01:12:14:03 - 01:12:30:15
Andrew
These are then there's so many of these types of classic stories and you're like, I hope I'd be that kind of person. But but yeah, you know, I mean, you know, you got to get up every day and you got to get back on the horse and and just continue. And I've never really questioned any other way

01:12:30:25 - 01:12:56:25
Kyle
I feel like there's something specific about the sport, though, that that has that kind of characteristic. Because while I said, you know, as a climber, you could just walk away. I've not met anybody that has. Yeah, it's very rare. Most of the people I talked to have had a life altering experience or life, a close call like you, like you just said, like there was never a doubt in my mind that I wanted to go back to climbing, and it was the same for me.

01:12:56:28 - 01:13:16:15
Kyle
Why is that? What about the sport is so intoxicating and so fulfilling that almost dying doesn't even cause a blip of thought of quitting it? Because I post all these videos on Instagram of me climbing a very vanilla shit and people are like.

01:13:16:17 - 01:13:17:13
Kyle
You're an idiot.

01:13:17:13 - 01:13:21:11
Kyle
How can you do that? Risk your life like people who don't understand. They're like, you're.

01:13:21:11 - 01:13:22:00
Kyle
You know you're going to.

01:13:22:00 - 01:13:38:07
Kyle
Die. Like post posting grim Reaper gifs, you know, like, or GIFs and like, so there's there's some people that literally do not understand why we do what we do, whereas on our side we can almost die. And we don't even bat an eye.

01:13:38:07 - 01:13:39:09
Andrew
Yeah.

01:13:39:12 - 01:13:55:27
Andrew
Well, I think it just goes back. Ancestor rule, anthropological. You know, we just have this call it a glitch in us that hasn't quite been erased out of us yet, that we're like, you know, we're the people that would be like questing across the map. I mean, maybe the tribe would

01:13:55:27 - 01:13:57:01
Kyle
and we

01:13:57:01 - 01:14:00:06
Andrew
would be sent out by the tribe to go find the next place to

01:14:00:06 - 01:14:01:11
Kyle
We're the scouts. Yeah,

01:14:01:11 - 01:14:24:23
Andrew
Yeah, we're the scouts, and it's just part of our survival. And I think that, you know, people who probably do get away from the sport and gravitate or these types of activities and gravitate into other things that are a little less risky, they probably struggle with that, wondering if God should I stuck with it or but I don't know.

01:14:24:23 - 01:14:44:20
Andrew
Everybody is their own person and, you know, my wife, she loves to go out and climb and, and do the things that, that, that we're talking about. But she's never had any of these experience has happened because when I take her out, it's all about like, super mitigating the risk, like, Yeah, you know, oh, you're my woman.

01:14:44:20 - 01:15:00:18
Andrew
You know, you're the mother of our kids. You know what I mean? We gotta tone it down, babe. You know, so I just think that, you know, there's there's people who find this activity, and they they. This is what I've been searching for. This is it. This is.

01:15:00:18 - 01:15:01:26
Kyle
is what I was looking for.

01:15:01:26 - 01:15:20:28
Kyle
Yeah, a calling a lot of people related to that. Or, like, I can't believe I haven't found this until I have. I regret not finding it early. And there's something about this is absolutely speaks to me. That is cool. I like the analogy of kind of an ancestral connection, like we, you know, we were the people that were out adventuring in search, searching for new frontiers and taking all the risk.

01:15:20:28 - 01:15:24:00
Kyle
And yeah, we haven't really let go of that biologically. So

01:15:24:00 - 01:15:25:00
Kyle
I think that's a great analogy.

01:15:25:13 - 01:15:27:24
Andrew
No. But

01:15:27:24 - 01:15:40:10
Kyle
they, Silas Ross said, I love it. I bring this up a lot, but he said, it's really great. It's really fun to do dangerous things. Well, I really love that motto. And I think it's funny, like, after we don't do dangerous things well

01:15:41:05 - 01:15:46:29
Kyle
injure ourselves, we learn a lesson to do dangerous things better, for sure.

01:15:47:02 - 01:16:05:06
Kyle
And hopefully we can continue to be better and to to exist in this dangerous space. And because no one wants to go get injured, no one wants to get no one wants to suffer. We want to play and have fun and come back. But sometimes there's lessons to be paid and hopefully we survive them. Yeah, some people don't get to learn the lessons.

01:16:05:20 - 01:16:44:29
Andrew
Yeah. Some people, unfortunately they don't. You know, a theme for me has, has been the theme to do great things, to do great things and to, to do inspiring things and, things that inspire me and things that I feel that, like, would inspire other people. And, you know, as a guide, you're working with people who who don't have they may have the physical skill to go in and do Crimson Chrysalis, for instance, but because they're not getting to do it often enough, they don't get the opportunity to develop the headspace to do it.

01:16:45:02 - 01:17:04:26
Andrew
And that's what a lot of it has, has to do with, you know, and there's people and I've, I've always kind of been jealous of people that are just okay with the, a great experience, you know. Oh, that was great. You know, like, wow, you wouldn't want this to be more. Oh, no, no, it that that was fine.

01:17:04:26 - 01:17:18:08
Andrew
And you're like, wow, how could that be fine? You know, but you know, when you have a bookshelf full of guidebooks, which is nothing more than goals and you're like.

01:17:18:14 - 01:17:19:01
Andrew
Well, this.

01:17:19:02 - 01:17:20:07
Andrew
You know what I mean? It's

01:17:20:07 - 01:17:21:05
Kyle
you can't stop it.

01:17:21:08 - 01:17:46:20
Kyle
Yeah. It's a, it's an interesting thing though because you can you can seek different things in climbing. And I think you can seek adventure. Two main veins you can strive for are adventure or performance. And I think to me this is biased because I always obviously lean in one direction. But to me, I think that you can gain much more as a human by striving for adventure than you can for performance.

01:17:46:23 - 01:18:07:24
Kyle
I also think that performance is a has diminishing returns because you can't perform your entire life, but you can search for adventure your entire life. And I feel like there is a lot of people who chase performance their entire life in climbing and either end up getting better at the sport because they can't perform like they used to, or they're injured and they can't perform like they used to.

01:18:08:01 - 01:18:16:08
Kyle
And now what does climbing mean to them? It's a big issue in their mind is like, what does it mean to me? It's like, well, maybe there's more that you have yet to find.

01:18:16:08 - 01:18:17:12
Andrew
yeah.

01:18:17:15 - 01:18:47:20
Andrew
That's true. And I really think that, boy, if those people haven't had the, if they didn't develop the spiritual connection because I think that would be the third part of that. You know, you have the adventure, you have the physical, and then you have the spiritual side. And there's a lot of really great climbers that, writers that have written about kind of the metaphysical side of these experiences outside in the mountains that we get to have in Doug Robinson, for example, Patton met back in the day.

01:18:47:27 - 01:19:13:26
Andrew
These guys, you know, a lot of their stuff was a little hard to read because when I was younger, because I hadn't kind of got into that, like existential side of like the experience out there. And for me, you know, I mean that, you know, there's just nothing better than, like. That is where I shouldn't choose a word I can't say very sassy,

01:19:13:26 - 01:19:15:08
Kyle
satiated. It,

01:19:15:08 - 01:19:16:03
Andrew
satiated.

01:19:16:05 - 01:19:30:14
Andrew
A feeling of coming off of something that you were just had to put a lot of effort into. And you're kind of in that bliss zone, you know? And I think that's kind of like a, you know, the that wraps it all up for me. That's

01:19:30:14 - 01:19:35:24
Kyle
the, the the climbing triangle spirituality, performance and adventure.

01:19:35:24 - 01:19:36:27
Andrew
Yeah.

01:19:36:27 - 01:19:37:21
Kyle
It's pretty good.

01:19:37:26 - 01:20:01:21
Andrew
That's pretty good. And, you know, I think that's why I always try to impress upon people, you know, I as a guide, you know, I worked with people who who came from places that were sport climbing areas, right. Like they'd done a lot of sport climbing or they hadn't done a lot of trad climbing, hadn't been in the mountains a lot, wanted to learn trad climbing.

01:20:01:23 - 01:20:27:09
Andrew
And one of the things that I noticed a lot at, sport climbing crags was the energy wasn't always the best for me because a lot of times there's there's an intense energy at a crag because people are there to crush their goal, you know? And so there's a lot of yelling and and you know what I mean?

01:20:27:09 - 01:20:35:06
Andrew
Sometimes you find a nice little quiet sport climbing crag and people are just having a good time, but, you know, and, and, angry sport

01:20:35:06 - 01:20:36:13
Kyle
just.

01:20:36:16 - 01:20:38:12
Kyle
Yeah. Fuck.

01:20:38:12 - 01:20:47:25
Andrew
yeah. Wow, man. You're kind of like. And I get it. And bouldering is kind of the same thing in bouldering can get very, very intense. But,

01:20:47:27 - 01:21:06:04
Andrew
Yeah, man, I just, I just think that the, the, that metaphysical side of the whole experience out there is probably what sums up for me, you know, I'll never be able to and I shouldn't go do the stuff that I was used to doing, and I shouldn't go, gosh, I should try to get in shape to be awesome again.

01:21:06:04 - 01:21:07:02
Andrew
It's like, days

01:21:07:15 - 01:21:10:02
Kyle
Yeah, but there's so much more to climbing that you can extract from it still.

01:21:10:02 - 01:21:17:03
Andrew
yeah. I mean, it's so much to do. I was looking at your guidebooks right here, and I was just like, oh, my gosh, I got a lot to do there.

01:21:17:03 - 01:21:36:13
Kyle
That's one thing that that always makes me sad and happy at the same time, is that it's impossible to do everything that I've always wanted to do. What is it? What does it say? You can. Oh, I'm going to slaughter this. I can't, it's like you can be anything you want, but you can't be everything you want.

01:21:36:16 - 01:21:58:13
Kyle
That's what it is. Yeah, and that's, like, cool and sad at the same time because it's also like, you can't, like, I have all these map like stars on Google Maps around the world. Even if I had no job and all the free time in the world, I could never visit every single place. It's impossible. And it's cool because it's it's inspiring.

01:21:58:13 - 01:22:06:23
Kyle
Because it's so the world is so vast and so diverse and so detailed. But at the same time, time is finite.

01:22:06:23 - 01:22:07:02
Kyle
So,

01:22:07:18 - 01:22:36:10
Andrew
Yeah, time is finite. How we use it is really, really, important. You know? Yeah. Adventure adventures, a blessing. And I've always been very grateful that even though it's been hard on my family and, I was just. I'm the person never wanted to grow up. Right. And I decided that at some young age, like the kid who always going to build a fort, you know, after school, this is what he's doing.

01:22:36:17 - 01:22:49:20
Andrew
And, my, I was very fortunate that I have a very understanding wife. She says, well, this is why I fell in love with you. And I said, but I was I was only 20 at the time. Now I'm in my 50s. You're still in love with me for this

01:22:49:20 - 01:22:51:20
Kyle
Oh,

01:22:51:20 - 01:22:53:16
Andrew
Oh, yeah.

01:22:53:18 - 01:23:16:13
Andrew
So, you know, I, I feel that, I, I always tell everybody, you know, in my job working in the entertainment industry, I had a lot of time because I never worked a full time job. It was job, gig, the gig, the gig my whole life. And so I've. I've worked with people that are doing the same thing, but don't adventure on their time off.

01:23:16:15 - 01:23:36:06
Andrew
You know, they're they're living what I call a normal life, normal people. You know, they got a boat, they go to the lake and stuff with their family, stuff with their kids. And, I would go to work and people were just waiting for stories. You know, they hadn't seen me for a month or, like, they're like, what's been going on?

01:23:36:06 - 01:23:58:27
Andrew
What are you doing? You know, before the age of internet and social media, when people are like, where have you been? You know, and so I've always thought that, it's been a great opportunity to kind of share my passion. I've taken a lot of stage hands, rock climbing taught them rock climbing. I've taken several stage hands to the summit of Mount Charleston that have never lived.

01:23:59:00 - 01:24:21:26
Andrew
You know, they've lived in Vegas their whole life underneath that mountain up there. And and, you know, in our industry, we work a lot of 24 hour days. And, so, guys, if you can go to work at 6 a.m. and get off at 6 a.m. the next day, we can go do Mel Charleston. You know, if you can be a rigger and rappel out of a ceiling and stuff, let's go rock climb and I'll teach you how to rock climb.

01:24:21:29 - 01:24:40:05
Andrew
And so that's where I really feel is like my my gift has been is to kind of like, you know, corral people towards there's another way to live your life, you know, and, it can be a lot of fun and, and, you don't have to go all in like some of us do. But you can experience.

01:24:40:05 - 01:24:40:26
Andrew
You can dabble.

01:24:40:29 - 01:24:42:01
Kyle
Taste a little adventure.

01:24:42:11 - 01:24:59:22
Andrew
Yeah, you can taste a little adventure. I have a great friend here in town, I took him, he's a marine. And, which I always wish I'd gone into the military. I regret that I don't have that background, you know, because I would have been a good marine. I think. But on these jobs, you know, we're we're rigging and working hard.

01:24:59:22 - 01:25:18:11
Andrew
He always love to talk about the marine days and rappelling in the Marines and stuff. So I said, one day I said, Leo, let's take you climbing mount sketching to climb it. And so he's like, okay, I'm into it. And he's a fellow. He's older than me, he's Cuban two, and his wife is from Argentina. And in Argentina they how she knows what albinism is.

01:25:18:13 - 01:25:42:05
Andrew
All right. She knows what Patagonia is. All right. She's a dancer and he's stagehand guy his whole life. And so anyway, over the summer, this was like 2002 or 2003, we were loading in a show at the Paris called we Will Rock you was a show on the Queen theme. And, so I, I got him to the level where I was able to take him up, Dark Shadows.

01:25:42:07 - 01:26:10:05
Andrew
And we did Dark Shadows to the summit. All right. And, we we topped out at about 11:30 p.m., all right. And, and he says he goes, we're we're spending the night up here. I go, what? He goes, we can't come down. We can't get down in the dark. Because when it started getting dark, he's like, are we going to spend the night here?

01:26:10:08 - 01:26:28:22
Andrew
And I was like, no, no, Leo, we're going to the top and and we're going to go down this route. Cat in the hat. And so when we got to the top, he's like, calls his wife and they're speaking in Spanish, and I could hear my name getting thrown around a few times. And, and this is all going on and on.

01:26:28:24 - 01:26:46:26
Andrew
And, so finally, he was really exhausted. I said, you can you can take a little nap up here. And he was like, in awe, you know, Pine Creek Canyon all by ourselves. Night, nighttime. I went and scouted how to, you know. Have you been in some of the Mescalero before? Okay. So go off the summit.

01:26:46:27 - 01:26:49:07
Andrew
You know, you get over to that, repel a cat in the hat

01:26:49:07 - 01:26:51:17
Kyle
we went down the, like, gully system.

01:26:51:17 - 01:26:52:08
Andrew
Yeah. To

01:26:52:08 - 01:26:54:05
Kyle
to the northwest.

01:26:54:05 - 01:27:03:00
Andrew
north. If I would have known that descent back then I would have done that. But we're going cat in the hat repellent cat in the hat. Anyway, the whole experience. We get back to the car at three in the morning.

01:27:03:00 - 01:27:32:04
Andrew
I get him home a few days later. I go pick them up from for work, and his wife came outside and she's like. Thank you for doing that. It is. It's changed. It's changed him. She goes, you you're working with him and doing all this in her from Argentina on and, you know, the Andes and the mountains and Patagonia and her and I'd had some fun conversations about mountains and stuff before, but now these people were not climbers type of people.

01:27:32:07 - 01:27:46:23
Andrew
But it really I see them I saw two months ago at the convention center, and we still talk about this stuff, you know, and, he's he always is. Thank you for doing that. Answer. Thank you. I knew you'd love it, marine. I always call him a marine. I knew he'd love a

01:27:48:20 - 01:27:52:02
Andrew
And so, you know, I mean, back then, you know, he was a kid.

01:27:52:10 - 01:28:08:28
Andrew
You know what the Marines do? They they they break you down and build you back up. That's the whole motto. Right? And so I've just always seen that as a great opportunity to do for other people that are in my environment. Let's get them out there having a great time. Yeah. Giving them a little risk, putting them on the edge.

01:28:09:01 - 01:28:12:27
Andrew
You know typically they don't go back, but sometimes they will.

01:28:13:03 - 01:28:14:08
Kyle
Landry. It's been a pleasure.

01:28:14:08 - 01:28:15:10
Andrew
Awesome man I

01:28:15:10 - 01:28:20:04
Kyle
where, where can people find you? Where can people learn more about your stories? Kind of follow your story?

01:28:20:25 - 01:28:39:21
Andrew
Well I have an interesting Instagram. It's called rig rock ride, fly. It's kind of my personal Instagram, my stuff that I all do. And then, so you can go there and then I'm on Facebook, Andrew Fulton, and then, I have this other little thing called Hi Over Vegas that I'm working on. It's kind of my show history show.

01:28:39:26 - 01:28:43:12
Andrew
So fun stuff. That's what I'm doing. That's how you can find me.

01:28:43:12 - 01:28:45:03
Kyle
yeah. Awesome, man. It's been a pleasure.

01:28:45:07 - 01:28:47:18
Andrew
Oh, dude, what a great experience. Thanks for getting all this out

01:28:47:23 - 01:28:49:25
Kyle
Yeah, absolutely. It's been great.

01:28:51:03 - 01:29:08:06
Kyle
That's it for today's episode, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you like today's conversation, be sure to head over to Spotify or Apple Podcasts to give the show five stars. These ratings significantly help the show reach more people. Also, if you've got a local crusher, local legend, or someone from the majority you feel would be a great fit for the show.

01:29:08:09 - 01:29:29:29
Kyle
Please reach out. You can reach me via Instagram at the Climbing Court majority, or via email at the Climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com. I wanted to hear from you. Stay tuned for our next episode with my good friend and blind climber, Justin Salis. Until then, stay safe, keep exploring and as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority.

01:29:30:01 - 01:29:31:29
Kyle
I will see you all in two weeks.