WEATHER: How our environment influences our emotions & behaviors

Chrissy opens today’s episode with a meditation on being present in nature, then shares the definition of the word weather, and invites us to consider the question: how does the weather influence our emotions and behaviors?

Therapists and writers Gretta Keene and Bill Murray of Mind Your Weather also join the conversation. Together, they explore how we can attune to the outer weather and our inner weather with the support of therapy, creativity, and spirituality. We also talk about their book Your Way There (to Being Fully Alive): Concepts and Tools for Mindful Transformation. A must read!

Then Chrissy shares this week’s book recommendation, Grandma Gatewood's Walk by Ben Montgomery.

And in the end, Chrissy encourages you to ask yourself:

• How does the weather influence your emotions and behaviors?
• If you can’t change the weather, how can you change your response?
• What are some tools you can use to navigate through life’s storms?

☀️ My memoir, Finding Sunlight, is here! Learn more & order your copy today

Transcript

Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:10] Hi, welcome to Stirred by Words, a podcast that uses the power of words to unlock your writing and wellness practices. I'm your host, Chrissy Holm, writer, editor, and wellness advocate.
This show is about my love for words, writing, and wellness, and I'm passionate about learning from others. Grateful to have you join us.
Today's meditation is inspired by this week's word, weather.
Let's take this meditation outside if possible, and you can keep your eyes open.
If you can't go outside, go near a window or close your eyes and imagine being outdoors.
If you made it outside, move forward whether you are walking, wheeling, biking, rollerblading, or skipping. Take a few moments to become present and take a few breaths.

[1:01] Music.

[1:20] The weather around you, outside the window, or inside your mind. Is it sunny, rainy, windy?
What sounds and smells do you notice?

[1:40] Music.

[1:52] Now feel the sensations in your body. If you're doing something physically active like walking, pay attention to the feeling of your feet touching the ground or the movement of your arms.
Notice the temperature of the air and the quality of the light.
Is it hot and bright?
Is it hazy and cool?
Or is it cold and dark?
Now, think internally for a moment.
Picture the emotions and feelings you've been experiencing this week.
Is your mind feeling cloudy or foggy? Imagine the sun breaking through the clouds or storm passing through, clearing the air and bringing clarity to your mind.
Take a few breaths.

[3:01] Music.

[3:16] And find a sense of peace and calm as you return to your day.
Now it's time for today's word, weather. Merriam Webster has a few definitions for the noun and verb weather. Here's one for each. Weather as a noun is the state of the atmosphere in regard to heat or cold, wetness or dryness, calm or storm, clearness or cloudiness.
Weather as a verb is to bear up against and come safely through.
Here are a few fun facts about the word weather. The first known use of the noun was before the 12th century and the verb during the 15th century.
Some phrases that contain weather are under the weather, like sick or unwell, which is what I am right now if you can't tell by my voice, and weather the storm, meaning to endure through difficulties without much harm or damage. There are several onomatopoeias that describe weather sounds such as pitter-patter, crackle, wrestle, howl, and crunch.

[4:28] Other synonyms for weather include climate, elements, endure, survive, and withstand.
Today's question is, how does the weather influence your emotions and behaviors?

[4:42] Well, first thing, if there's one thing that us Minnesotans, including myself, like to talk about, it's the weather.
But in all seriousness, I think the weather is really fascinating because it's such a powerful entity, whether you believe in God, Mother Earth, other meanings, or even nothing at all.
I've talked to so many different people in my life and they've said that the rain gives them energy and of course we know that many people feel that the sun gives them energy.
It's really interesting too because we're all so different when it comes to socializing in certain weather.
Some people love to get out and explore when it's 90 degrees Fahrenheit and sunny.
Others would rather stay inside and watch a movie.
What we do during certain weather really impacts us, and then it can translate into influencing our emotions.
For example, I like outdoors and socializing when it's 65 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit, kind, of that fall or like sweater weather, because I feel more comfortable in a flannel than in shorts and a tank top, personally.
When that's the weather, I seek out my friends to do something, and if they say yes and are free, that socializing brings me joy.
So the weather really does have an impact on what I do and how I'm feeling.

[6:00] Music.

[6:12] Today's guests are Gretta Keene and Bill Murray. Gretta Keene is the author of Your Way There, To Being Fully Alive, Concepts and Tools for Mindful Transformation. Bill Murray, Gretta's husband, is the illustrator. Gretta and Bill are psychotherapists with a thriving private practice in upstate New York. I'm happy to have them join us today. Welcome Gretta and Bill.
Hello, Gretta and Bill. Happy to have you here on the show, Stirred by Words. Hey, Chrissy.
Happy to be here. Well, we'll just dive right in and we're going to talk a lot about weather and your way there to being fully alive and I'm really excited to dive in. So, in the first few lines of chapter one of your book, your way to there to being fully alive, the lines are, wind was whipping up peaks as ominous dark swallowed pale sky, thundered rumbled and then later in the paragraph it says, better to face an actual storm rather than an emotional one.
And since our word this episode is weather, how would both of you say that weather as in like atmosphere and storms relates to that emotional weather, meaning like your thoughts and emotions?
Yeah, well one thought is it's always changing.

[7:33] That weather comes and goes, and it can be stormy and cloudy one hour and sunny and clear the next.
And then it can be different for different people, and you know, so at the same time in that sense.
So we are very aware of being in different realities, even while we're together.
And sort of the other, I was thinking about whether as, you know, we think of whether as a noun, but it's also whether as a verb, you know, how do we weather, you know, how do we weather the chemotherapy? How do we weather the divorce? How do we weather the difficult things that we're going through? So I thought, well, that's really interesting that, you know, we use it in that way as well, you know, sort of, as humans, you know, what do we do? You know, how do I suppose one thing that might mean is that you're dealing with the weather of chemotherapy? And what do you bring to that weather that allows you to get through it? Well, and then when I talk with, with clients, I often start with, you know, so hey, so, you know, let me in on what's your.

[8:47] Inner weather right now. And that's really the setup for the book is I'm talking about the storm and how I responded to it and how I initially responded to it out of fear and went into a whole bunch of not so useful habitual patterns, and then how I was able to sort of center myself.
And so what were the tools I used to be able to actually get to shore and not dive in, in the way you were saying, but dive in a tunnel?
That would have been fairly scary. Another way is we get used to looking at satellite images of storms as they approach the East Coast and the West Coast recently.
And that's also really applicable because a lot of what our book is about is getting up above the weather so that you're not just in it, in the turmoil.

[9:50] But there's a way with a mindful approach to getting up above and looking down on your experience just like a satellite image of a storm. Right. So then you are able to kind of say, oh, you know, I can see what I'm in and how do I then make choices about, you know, about how to deal with it. And then also just sort of, we talk about preparing, you know, what are ways that we can know that we're going to be going through intense weather.
And the lashes.

[10:24] Bring your bug spray, you know, your bank, oh, and you know, whatever. And so that's another kind of metaphor we use, you know, like some, you know, someone we're working with might be, we know that they're going to be going, you know, going to a family holiday that they know is going to be difficult, or a confrontation with the boss or something.
And so being able to know, OK, you're going to go into weather that is difficult.
You're going to be in some big waves.
And so what do you need to bring with you to be able to be able to safely navigate those waves?
And how to stay in touch, that's the piece about the satellite image, where you're being able to hold on to a meta perspective, a overarching view of it, realizing that you're going to be in it, but that weather will change.
And that there is a strength that you can attach to within yourself that you can bring to the situation. No wonder I'm feeling this way. No wonder my heart is pounding.
I'm not surprised by it, I expect it.

[11:42] And what is the way that I can use the tools that I know to kind of, you know, get my, to navigate my way through this stormy weather?
Yeah, and talking about it. So, I mean, one of the things, you know, we stress is communication.
So it'll be sort of like, I'll say, oh, to Bill.

[12:04] I'm really, I'm really having some intense waves, or we say we're under the weather, right?
But it's sort of like, oh, I'm feeling really stormy.

[12:17] I've been writing to my kindred spirit girlfriends that are, you know, we've been using all these weather metaphors, and sort of say, you know, that.
That it is something that I think as humans, you know, on the planet, we've been dealing with weather since we rose up out of the mud. Yeah, long time. Yeah, absolutely. And you can plan for some of that weather to some extent, but also, like both of you had said, you can't change the weather either. And I know on your website, it says you can't change the weather, but you can can change your response, which I know a lot of people might know a similar saying.
But if somebody is unfamiliar with that saying, what does that mean?
And what do you think are some of the benefits of changing your response?
Well, one of the things we say is we kind of assume that an action creates a reaction.
They said this thing and it made me so mad.
And really, what we emphasize is it's not the action, it's not the thing that was either done or said or not done that creates the reaction.
It's the interpretation.
So I think it's similarly like with weather.

[13:42] A hurricane is a hurricane. And it's like, OK, how do we deal with it?
But if you think of it as you can have an interpretation about it that is about, oh, poor me, or, you know.
Well, yeah, let's say it rains the day you're having a picnic. Right.
And one thought could be, oh, just my luck. I'm a loser, but this always happens to me.
And that's the kind of action-reaction that could go on if that's your belief about yourself.
But what Gret is saying is that if you interpret it differently and say, Yeah, well, that happens sometimes.

[14:23] Whether, you know. The plants need the rain. And so I'm just gonna have to schedule another day. I'm disappointed.
I don't have to pretend that I'm happy about it. I can feel disappointed, but I don't have to go to that place, that habitual place of just my luck. I'm such a loser.
Right, I could say it rained on my wedding, but oh, but that means good luck, right?
I mean, people create, create meaning, Tristan. Yes, yeah, it's all about changing kind of your perspective around it.
Yes, exactly right. Yeah, right. So, you know, I mean, you can still have a reaction, but that being able to understand how you interpret it really does have an impact on your full experience, right?
So I think that's something.

[15:11] That is true in all kinds of situations, right? That your interpretation matters.
You know? Yeah.
What would be a tip you would give? I mean, I know you kind of both gave a few examples, but what would be a tip that you would give for somebody that is in a situation to kind of either shift their mindset or change their response?

[15:35] Well, I think one of the tools that I developed was something called Circles of Compassion.
So it's, hey, okay, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm really, I'm, this is a really difficult conversation.
It is on so many different levels, whatever. And, but the first thing is to sort of really give yourself compassion, right?
Sort of mentally and emotionally give yourself a kind of a hug, be with yourself, validate this is hard for whatever reason, right?
It. And then coming to this place of a common denominator with the other person or people and say, okay, here's the common denominator, which maybe there's lots of different ones, but a simple one is we're all humans doing life the best we can, and it is often not what we think it should be, right? And that we're having a reaction. So just knowing that they're human, they're doing life the way they choose to do life might be the way that we choose to do life. Their choices may have an impact on us, but we're giving ourselves compassion. We're finding a common denominator with the other person or people, and then we're giving them compassion. That doesn't stop us, from still having an interaction, but it really does, you know, that, you know, we may.

[16:56] Sort of speak up for ourselves or create boundaries or, you know, but that we are going going to be not in this place of feeling vulnerable and defensive and in our body guards and being reactive.
We're going to be able to sort of say to ourselves, I'm OK. This is really hard.
I'm giving myself compassion. Kind of be your own nurturing parent, kind of holding your hand and telling yourself that it's OK.
Going to get through this. You got this.
Another tip, I think, comes from the speaker-listener dialogue that we teach about.
But one aspect of it is, when you feel yourself getting activated, upset to something that's happened to you, something somebody said or done, or it's rained on my picnic, to ask yourself, why is this getting me so upset?
What is it about this that is really getting to me?
Because usually what we do is blame, you know, we want to figure out who's wrong, who did it wrong.

[18:06] It's their whose fault is it? But if instead we investigate, why is this troubling me so much?
We can find some really important information like it's connected to this time during, in my childhood when- The teacher yelled at me. Yeah, yeah.
Teacher yelled at me or my father walked off or the bully punched me in the nose.
Right, yeah. But that helps us have compassion for ourselves.
That's right, yeah, that's right.
The point of it is, oh, no wonder I'm feeling this way. And then it allows us to make a different choice.
We're not reacting to the teacher anymore. We're making a choice.
That's why we really like to emphasize, instead of a reaction, you have a choice.
Right.

[18:59] And that's with thinking of it as weather, right? that sort of understanding, oh, right, when it starts.
I mean, some people have very seasonal reactions.

[19:12] So it's like when it starts getting dark or something like that.
And being able to recognize that you're having the reaction, validate it.
Perhaps there's, and I, from personally, I think there's often some reasons why a certain season will have an association. It's not necessarily conscious.
But being able to, whether you remember or make the association or not, to be able to really kind of confront, accept, validate that this is part of the feeling.
It's a yes and. Yes, when the darkness comes, I'm feeling this.
And here are the things I can do. And here are the ways that will bring me light.
And here are the things I need. So it's being able to pay attention to our own experience within the weather, pay attention to, which is the outer environment, pay attention to our inner weather, and then be able to sort of make choices, right?
You're validating so that you're validating what you're feeling and what you're going through.
You're not dismissing it or getting into the story of it, we say.
But with that and being able to really compassionately, again, ask ourselves, what would be useful? What would we need? Right?

[20:34] Absolutely. And when you think about kind of that, like inner and outer worlds, and you're both artists in whether it's art, writing music or other creative endeavors, how does that connect to the world, both our inner worlds and the outer world.

[20:52] Yeah, well, it feels it feels really important. I mean, it feels like the, you know, just like the earliest people, you know, they put the hand on the cave. And it was I am I exist, I matter, I've been here. And I think that that urge to sort of, to kind of say, I'm here, I'm alive. I'm I've manifested into to this matter, right?
And I matter, right? I mean, playing with the two words of matter, two definitions, right?
That when we become matter, then we spend our lives seeking affirmation that we matter.

[21:39] I think that that's part of the creative urge, whether it's writing or music or anything, or whether it's making meatballs with your grandson or weeding the garden or even something simple like ironing clothes, which people don't do all that much anymore.
But it's that sense of I'm doing this, I did this, now look, here it is, right?
And I think that it's a way of feeling connected, my energy that is manifested in my body and in my aliveness is being connected to another person or another action or a thing.
So I talk about sense of circularity where we're always wanting to find ways for our energy to connect, where there's sort of a giving and getting simultaneously where the circuits are made.
And I think that that's a real human need. And so that's why the title of the book, kind of being fully alive, right?
It used to be fully alive while you're alive and everybody said, that's a little dark.
I mean, it kind of, it is finite and yay, we're alive. Let's do it. Let's live it.

[23:07] I think that the reason the metaphors of weather and landscape.
Resonates so deeply with humans is because we're shaped by it, you know, thinking back, we were talking about earlier that as as our species developed, we were wandering the land under the skies and shaped, you know, no doubt our psyches are deeply shaped by both landscape and weather, terrain, and...
And making marks in it, right? Yeah.
I mean, so making... Knowing your way, your way there. I mean, that's...
The title of the book really fits there.
What is the path? What's the journey over the landscape, under the weather?
I think these are really deep, primordial aspects of our psyche.
And that was why, I mean, the book used to be called, A Practical Guide to Being Human, but that it just wasn't getting to this deeper kind of.

[24:12] Well, I don't know, spiritual kind of, everybody has different ideas about what that is, but I wanted something that was more about the experience of being alive and that it's not the there, it's your way there, right?
Right? I mean, it's, it's your, it's the process, not the product. And so, um, that was why I kind of switched over to that title was talking about the way, right. And, and because, that's what it is, it's our journey, right? Our journey in life, under the weather, within the weather, right?
There's so many metaphors in this. What would you say? I I mean you're both are talking about your way there to being fully alive. What would you say sparked you to write the book and what's your favorite takeaway for readers?

[25:11] Oh, well, I mean, we're both teachers. We've both been teaching in different forms all our lives in different ways. And, and our approach with therapy is very much wanting to give people very practical tools so they don't need us. It's like, we want people to be able to say, Oh, yes, this, you know, to have a sense of agency to be able to sort of incorporate the ideas and.

[25:40] And the concepts that I've learned in therapy in a way that is mine.
And so I think being able to really put that out coherently, there's 20 chapters and 20 basically different concepts.
I have to confess that when I was writing, I was just writing, right?
And I was just doing chapter after chapter and creating different kind of scenarios, my life, my life with Bill, lives with clients, and very fictionalized, very, very, very fictionalized.
And I ended up with 64 10-page chapters. Wow.
So a big piece of it was really figuring out how to organize it, how to get it down, how to hone it, how to really kind of think, well, okay, what is really important? What do I want to say here? And really getting it down. So, I mean, it has been a process of how to make it.

[26:50] Succinct, right? Because it just feels like so much we want to say and explain and share and, you know, so that...
You can only do so much in a book. You need to write multiple or, yeah, it's hard. Yeah, I get that.
Brett and I, as well as seeing individuals, we see couples as a couple and, All of these concepts and tools are things that we've used in our own relationship.

[27:21] Before we started teaching them to other people.
Yeah.
That... Made a big difference. It made a big difference. Yeah, I bet.
Greta's the author, Greta wrote the book, I illustrated it, but the concepts came out of our lived personal experience.
And we wanted to pass that on to other people because we know it works.
Yeah, you really can change your life.
You can make really big, substantial changes. You can, you know, it takes practice and commitment and patience and compassion, right?
I mean, you just, you need to be able to sort of keep telling yourself you're doing the best you can.
I think shame and judgment are the two things that we've seen as being the most destructive.
And probably that's a big theme in the book, really, is judgment.
Even what we think of as positive, like, oh, you're so smart, or oh, you're so pretty.

[28:22] Seeing the world through the lens of judgment, good, bad, pretty, smart, stupid, success, failure, it really has a, it's not so useful from our point of view.
And being able to really switch from judgment to compassion, to be able to be encouraging and kind and loving towards oneself as well as towards other people is so important with the ability to make those changes.
When we shame ourselves, we actually shut down our ability to change.

[29:00] That is so true. Powerful stuff. And kind of thinking how you said in the book you wrote about like your personal relationship and then like obviously your relationship with Bill and I know on your website it says that you two went separate ways after graduation and then reunited.

[29:18] Decades later which then you discovered that you both had become spiritually minded therapists which is a very cool connection story. So when we think about spirituality and therapy, how do you think those journeys relate to one another? And kind of along the same lines, like how can therapy help individuals struggling with spiritual doubts or navigating some of those existential questions? I mean, we really, the connection was there back when I met him when when he was 12, and he sang all the verses to Mr. Tambourine Man, which are very complicated.
Just look them up. And all 26 minutes of Alice's Restaurant.
And we actually were in Sunday school together, and we joined forces and ran the Biafra campaign.
This is late 60s, and to raise money for the starving children in Biafra.

[30:18] And we were very idealistic. I mean, we were very much cared about Martin Luther King and worried about the Vietnam War.
And so those were our values when we were young, young teenagers.
And we were acting on them then. And then he went to Canada.
I went all over the place. And life happens and stuff. And then, but I think that we've always been.

[30:53] We've always been artists, we've always been idealists, we've always cared very much about wanting to be of benefit and be helpful and, you know, and to other people. And I think that that's, you know, we've had, we've gone through many different spiritual teachers that we have, taken from. I mean, Pema Chodron is the teacher that I think has had the greatest influence on my life, but other people, too, as well. So, I mean, not just her. But I think that that's something that really connects us, and it connected us back then and led us to become spiritually minded. Yeah, it leaves us feeling comfortable working with people who have, religious convictions, but also people who wouldn't label themselves that way. And and even people who are strongly anti-spiritual, it's also a worldview.
And I think that's what people are hungry for. Why be spiritually minded?
Because what's the right word for that dimension of the human experience that really responds to transcendence and eminence, that feeling, oh, there's something sacred going on here, whether it's a sunset or a teaching.
And people.

[32:21] And like I said, even if people are saying, no, that is not something I buy into.

[32:28] I just am in here and now in my experience. Well, okay, we can work with that too.
It's also a spiritual belief. It's an existential belief. It's why I think Ted Lasso was such a big hit, because that word believe, right? I mean, I mean, I found that a very, you know, in my, a very kind of spiritual program, you know, a series.
I mean, it was because it was, you know, it was about love and kindness and believing and caring, right?
And I think that's what I think, you know, that's why getting away from judgment and really emphasizing compassion, like compassion for yourself.
I mean, the hardest thing people have is actually loving themselves and having compassion for themselves. I mean, they'll say, oh, well, yeah, I can have compassion for them.
But really, what often they're talking about is what I think of as pity.
And I think, well, no, let's work on that compassion for yourself here.
I think it would be useful. Yeah, let's start there. And so I think that that's kind of, what do we need in this world?
And I think that really being able to connect to that sense of kindness.
Yeah, I mean, the word connect really, I think, puts a finger on it.
That sense of being connected.

[33:58] Another human with nature. Very few people will say, I don't connect with nature.
But what is that, you know, that's the thing I'm talking about, that has a spiritual resonance.
The circularity, that sense of the energy, you know, feeling. You can feel it, it's real, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Kind of going back full circle, like when we think of weathering life storms, what's one thing that we can do to kind of convey our emotions and have more meaningful or conversations with.
Well, I think one thing is developing a vocabulary, emotional vocabulary, right?
That those emotion wheels are really helpful for people who don't know how to put words to what to the internal experience of emotion.
Yeah, it's really, it's true. And I think it's something that some people are just really not exposed to it.
When you ask them what they're feeling, they're saying, well, I'm feeling.

[35:07] That you really shouldn't have done that.
And it's like, well, that's not actually a feeling. I mean, it's amazing how much people will respond with thoughts and descriptions, and usually descriptions about somebody else's actions.
So we coach them to say that if it's more than one word, it's usually a thought, not a feeling.
What's the feeling? What's the emotion? So yeah, we can be annoying.
Yeah. We're all different people, you know, It's the shade. All right.

[35:38] Thoughts are important. They often generate feelings. What is the emotion?
Right. And what are the different emotions recognizing that, well, I'm angry. Okay, I'm angry. And it's like, okay, angry. Let's, you know, like diagramming a sentence, which nobody does anyway either. But, you know, kind of take it apart and say, okay, well, were you confused by what they're saying? Well, yeah, it didn't make sense. And I expected, expecting something, okay, confused.
And then were you a little scared? Well, yeah, you know, okay.
And was it, you know, did it feel a little sad if that, if what you were imagining?
Yeah, yeah. So it's like really understanding that the, what we will, you know, we think of it as a cover emotion, like anger, you know, really can have lots of different emotions and being able to really sort of take it apart and understand all the different things that you may be feeling.
And then if you can tolerate it, have a hypothesis about all the different things that the other person might be thinking and feeling. Here's a great rule of thumb, Chrissy, which we tell people.

[36:54] To get rid of the saying, you shouldn't feel that way. We often hear people expressing their thoughts and feelings and tell them, you shouldn't feel that way.
It's the opposite of what's helpful.
Instead, what Greta was just saying is, okay, here's what I hear you saying.

[37:16] Tell me more. Tell me more. We often think that if we validate somebody else's feelings that somehow we're saying.
They're fine, or I feel that way too. Instead of just understanding, that's what they feel.
We feel what we feel.
Emotions are just another form of information that come from inside of us.
Part of our weather, that's how it is weather. We can't really understand them well unless we kind of put them out on the table and we can walk around them and look at them.
And having somebody who will do that with us is very healing and helpful.
Well, that's why getting rid of the judgment and thinking it's a bad feeling, right?
That happy is a good feeling, and sad or angry or disappointed is a bad feeling.
And for us to be able to recognize that it's okay if we're disappointed, you know, it's just weather, it will change.

[38:15] Or if the other person is disappointed, if we may make a decision that leaves the other person feeling disappointed, that we can consider their feelings, but that we're not responsible for their feelings.
And that's a huge concept that is really difficult because you can be responsible as a person, responsible for your actions and your reactions, but that's different than being responsible for somebody else's feelings.
You can be aware and consider and take them, you know, and take them into kind of the, you know, Consideration and how, what am I going to do and how I'm going to behave?
But I think that that piece is a really big source of a lot of unhappiness.
It's about another way to do it, yeah.
You got me thinking about a lot of different life stories and experiences, which I'm sure you get a lot.
But- Well, for us too, you know, That's the weird thing about being a therapist is that when you're working with people, Your mind is.

[39:27] Bill, oh yeah, I'm exploring this, but I'm also kind of in touch with my own experience where I learned or where I need to learn.
It can be sometimes sessions I think are more useful to me than they are to my client.
Well, we think of our work as being collaborative. I mean, we're very much in collaboration with the people we work with.

[39:49] And that feels really important. And that was very much what I wanted with the book.
I wanted to create a friendly book. I mean, Bill's illustrations, over 100 illustrations, right?
But one, they sort of show a lot of the illustrations that we would draw in session, because both of us do that.
But they also are really creating, hopefully, a friendly way of understanding it.
And Bill, we worked very hard on developing what we think of as the critters, the characters, that were human-ish, but not necessarily human.
And that because we wanted them to be very sort of universal, but wanted them to be friendly and accessible in a way that invites people in to not think, oh, this is this dry, it's a self-help book, and we're going to teach you what to do, and we've got the way.
And, you know, I mean, we are so not that.
We want it to be, feel like a collaboration, to say, hey, we're humans, and we're doing our best to figure out how to be human.
And here's some things that we've learned along the way, but to have it be a kind of friendly book.
So it's kind of, you know, there's a cartoony kind of quality to it, but it's meant to make it.

[41:16] Accessible and not something, you know, scary or, you know, do your homework and here's your lessons. Although there are 40 pages at the end, exercises that if you wanted to actually, you know, do the exercises and incorporate it, you can do that. But that's at the end of the book. So, you know, you can ignore that part. Yeah. And the audiobook has Bill's music in between each chapter. So, you know, I'm narrating it and Bill's playing music and we've got this, you know, this song from Sri Lanka and, you know, it's again, we wanted to make it kind.

[41:56] Of that sense of, it's hard being human and it takes courage to be human and we want, you know, want to have that, like extend a hand. You're not alone. We're in it with you feeling. So I think that was a big motivation for how the book evolved in what it looks like now, right?

[42:21] From what I've read so far, I mean, that's exactly the feeling it gives. It feels like that partnership and that it doesn't feel as rigid or like, not prescriptive, but it's like you're giving examples and there's a really nice flow to it. And that's a nice breath of fresh air, or these weather things.

[42:42] And I've read a lot of like self-help type books and this is just nice to make it, it's helping, you know what I mean?
But yeah. Every chapter is loaded with stories, right? And that's what we feel is really important, that there's the concepts, but there's the stories.
There's the stories of people and how they use them, how we use them, how we use them together, how we use them with other people.
And so the book is filled with stories about humans. And so, you can read it as bedtime stories.
Hopefully it has that kind of feel too, right? Yes, absolutely.
Well, I know we're kind of getting towards the end of our conversation and this is typically the part of the episode where I ask my guests to share a piece.
And since you wrote a book, I would love to hear Greta just kind of a section or two, and then I know we have a special surprise for our listeners here with Bill, and I'll just turn the mic over to you, Greta, to kind of kick us off.
Okie doke. Well, this is from chapter one, and what Chrissy sort of mentioned, And it starts with.

[44:03] That morning, land was far away and the water deep. Wind was whipping up peaks as ominous dark swallowed pale sky.
Thunder rumbled. Guiding my slim spring green kayak into the four foot waves of Lake Champlain reminded me of days as a young teen diving into hurricane surf.
Scary, yes, but doable. I was brave.
Bill, my husband and partner in our psychotherapy practice was up ahead in his red kayak.
His curly white mane streamed out from under his floppy hat.
We had spent the night camping on an island accessible only by boat.
Other campers had warned us of the approaching storm and told tales of the treacherous lake.
But we had stayed, and now we had to get back. We had no choice.

[44:54] As a therapist, I often use the metaphor of heading into the waves as a way to encourage my clients to go towards what is painful and consider other interpretations.
Unfortunately, at that moment, confronting high waves was the opposite of what I needed to do.
The wind-whipped, four-foot, white-peaked waves were heading to where I had to go, which meant maneuvering the 50-pound, 17-foot piece of Kevlar so that the waves would hit the side of my kayak and then come from behind, surprising me with every lift.
Ugh, every fiber in my being told me, not safe. You have to turn, Bill yelled.
I can't. I will, obstinately heading farther away from Bill and the beach.
A gust of wind had yanked my hat off my head. The hat strings tugged at my throat.
My face and hair were wet from the spray.
I resisted the urge to cry.
Where was the fast forward button that would instantly change the scene to safe and cozy, Bill and me cuddled in front of a toasty fire.
The only way to that long for future moment was via actions taken in the present moment.
The only one who could get me there was me.

[46:12] I chose to listen to a kinder, wiser, internalized perspective with a more effective response.
Breathe, said the inner calming voice. My wiser self encouraged me to center, come back into my body, into the present, out of the dire past and future stories.
Yes, you are scared and you're gonna be okay. You can do this.
Concentrating on the physical sensations of the paddle in my hand, thighs pressed against the side of my kayak and feet pushing on the pegs, I was in the now.
I stopped watching the scary movies in my head and got attuned to the lifting swells.
My muscle memory returned and my stroke miraculously improved.
Paddling with renewed determination, I pointed my kayak in the direction of the distant landing.
That evening on the porch, overlooking the lake, we saw a huge drenched double rainbow.
Bill took my hand as we stared at the magical arc of colors.

[47:21] I love that. So it's talking about, I mean, it's a very, very condensed edited version because I sort of go into all the different not so useful reactions I had when I was gripped by fear.
You know, and all the different kind of past experiences that came up in my head, you know, all the sort of mental movies, being in the story, right?
And the judgment, you know, I can't do this. You know, I'm inept. I'm not athletic.
And so being able to sort of use my tools, and I talk about different tools, but it's like, and get to that place where I'm able to center myself, come into the present, be that yes and, yes, you're scared, acknowledging my emotions, giving myself compassion, and kind of being say, okay, you can do this, right?
So I think that that's kind of an example of how we want to be with people sort of mentoring, in that way of being able to be that voice of, okay, we know all the stories you have that are not so useful.

[48:34] Let's get into your wise self, you can do this. And so when they can internalize our voices and know that we've gone through that too, then they can on their own sort of begin to sort of use those tools and be able to sort of recognize, oh, I'm getting in the story.
Oh, this isn't so useful. Oh, I mean, my bodyguards have appeared. Oh, my defenses.

[49:03] Yeah, I'm more useful way to proceed. So anyway.
Yeah, no, that's great. It's putting like terms to things that you may be experiencing in your head and it's like catchy terms, I guess, like identify things that are happening inside your head and body essentially too.
Yeah, so that's why we use that metaphor a lot, kind of sort of recognizing that we are in the stories.
Bill, probably my absolute favorite illustration in the book is this weird metaphor that I use that if you think about, we've all seen pictures of that giant island of floating garbage out in the ocean, right?
I mean, it's like all that garbage, right? So the picture, Bill, it's like if you.

[50:01] Think of all that garbage as all the stories and the gunk and the experiences and the defenses and all that kind of human existence stuff, right, as this kind of floating garbage.
And think about, I talk to myself, OK, you're in the story. You're in the story.
Dive down deep, right?
Dive down, and you keep going down deeper and deeper. And you get to that point where it's sort of like both joy and pain come together.
There is no good or bad. It's undifferentiated.
You're just in this place that either you're diving down and you're in that place.
Or as Bill was describing, you're in a satellite and you're above the Earth and you're observing that place.
But that you're not in it, right? And I think that that's something to really work with as a larger metaphor, is being aware of what's the gunk we're in and how do we be able to sort of get to something that our wise self or that place where it's undifferentiated or a place of energy or a place of spirit.
And so I think that's really a big piece.

[51:21] Of sort of an ongoing metaphor in the book is how to be aware of the gunk, but be able to sort of navigate to a place that is not just in the gunk.
Right.
Yes, that makes sense.
Well, that was great. Thank you so much for sharing that, Greta.
And then I'll turn the mic over to Bill to share his surprise piece.
And if you want to just kind of explain a little bit more of what it is and what it means to you, that would be great.
Okay, thanks, Chrissy.
Following the tsunami that brought so much death and destruction to Sri Lanka, Gret and I were part of a group of therapists who traveled there.
To help train some lay counsellors who were going into the villages of Sri Lanka, trying to bring and bringing healing and help for the tremendous suffering that the people there were experiencing.
And we brought some concepts and techniques from Western psychotherapy, But we also wanted to be sensitive to the spirituality and wisdom that these, counselors held, lay counselors. And one of the things we did was to write a song.

[52:49] That captured sort of what we've been talking about today, which is weather changes.
And that points to an important truth about the human experience, that our experience with life keeps changing. And part of the Buddhist wisdom is trying to hold on to an experience or trying to push it away only creates more suffering than what's necessary. So this song is called called Changing Light, and it goes through several verses of the sun is warm, I'm feeling strong, the sky is gray, I'm feeling sad, the night has come, I'm feeling scared, and so on.
And each one ends with, it's changing, it's changes to something else.
And so I'll just sing for you the final verse from that song.

[53:52] Music.

[54:33] It was so wonderful because we went through all the different verses and the women, they spoke both Tamil and Sinhalese and so they learned to sing it phonetically.
They didn't speak English at all, so everything was done in translation.
And so they went through all the verses singing in this phonetically learned English and then And they translated it into both Tamil and Sinhalese, and they sang it for us.
And they were so joyful, these women. So you have to picture them, sort of like butterflies.
They all dressed in saris.
And they had been through enormous trauma themselves. One woman had seen her husband and son pulled out to sea with the waves. Another one had seen her husband's throat cut.
I mean, because there was a war as well.
And so they had been, and as we worked with them, we realized what they had been through.
And yet, they also were so joyful. And singing every night, we would have these 10-hour sessions.
And then every night, though, they would be just up singing and dancing.
And we went on a bus one time, and the entire bus ride, they were just singing.
So we really wanted to reach them with a song and do something that was a song for them.
So they loved that. that was just very much sort of something that spoke to them.

[56:03] A universal language, music, right? Absolutely, music, arts, and anything.
It just, it touches, going back to that connection, like keeping us all connected.

[56:13] Thank you so much, both of you, Gretta and Bill. I can't thank you enough for your time and energy today on the podcast, and it's been a pleasure to talk about weather and all the metaphors, and of course, your way to being fully alive.
So thank you again.
Well, thank you, Chrissy.

[56:32] Music.

[56:44] Today's book recommendation is Grandma Gatewood's Walk, the inspiring story of the woman who saved the Appalachian Trail by Ben Montgomery. Emma Gatewood told her family she was going on a walk and left her small Ohio hometown with a change of clothes and less than $200. The next anybody heard from her, a farm-reared 67-year-old great-grandmother had walked 800 miles along the Appalachian Trail. And in September 1955, having survived a rattlesnake strike, two hurricanes, and a run-in with Harlem gangsters, she stood atop Maine's Mount Katahdin.
Driven by a painful marriage to an oppressive husband, Gatewood became the first woman to hike the entire Appalachian Trail alone. The story of Grandma Gatewood will inspire readers of all ages by illustrating the full power of the human spirit and determination.
Even those who know of Gateward don't know the full story of triumph from pain, rebellion from brutality, and hope from suffering.
Before we wrap up the episode, I encourage you to grab a pen and paper, notebook, or phone to write down your answer to these questions.
How does the weather influence your emotions and behaviors?
If you can't change the weather, how can you change your response?

[58:00] What are some tools you can use to navigate through life's storms?
Feel free to pause the episode and come back to these questions later.
If you have any thoughts on this episode, suggestions for a future episode, or if you, or someone you know wants to be a guest on the show, contact me via my website at www.chrissyholm.com.
C-H-R-I-S-S-Y-H-O-L-M.
Thanks for listening to another episode of Stirred by Words, meditations and conversations about writing and wellness.
This has been your host, Chrissy Holm.
Tune in to future podcast episodes, and until next time, keep learning new words, Stay healthy.

[58:46] Music.