Jennifer Cooper on AI, Shoppable Models, and What Builders Keep Getting Wrong-189

In a market where a lot of builders are pulling back, Jennifer Cooper is making the case for why that's exactly the wrong move. Jennifer is the founder and CEO of Evolution Marketing and Evolution Design Studios - a fractional marketing consultancy with seasoned teams across the country serving home builders of every size. In this episode, she and Anya Chrisanthon of Anewgo get into the real conversations happening in builder boardrooms right now.

The budget conversation nobody wants to have If your growth goals are going up but your marketing budget is staying flat, you're setting yourself up to miss your numbers. Jennifer explains why spend has to match growth - and what it signals when leadership doesn't value what marketing can actually do.

AI adoption in the field right now Jennifer isn't scared of AI - she's brought it to the table as a strategic partner. She breaks down what smart teams are actually doing with AI, why she keeps an "invisible chair" for it in every strategy conversation, and how builders can use it to work faster without losing their brand voice.

AEO, authority, and the PR comeback AI is looking for authoritative content and third-party validation. Jennifer shares how one of her builders built a PR strategy that AI is now actively sourcing - and why blogs, content, and earned media are more important than ever in the AIO era.

The CRM conversation we're still having in 2026 Having a CRM isn't enough. Jennifer explains why most builders have it but aren't using it right - and how to think about your full tech stack from OSC tools to self-touring to visualization.

Shoppable model homes: the business case Evolution Design Studios brings a full shoppable model program to builders of any size. Builders save an average of $10,000 or more per model, get a revenue-generating online storefront, and create a stickier digital experience - without handling a single purchase order. Jennifer breaks down exactly how it works and who it's right for.

The secret to staying ahead Wake up every day and ask why. Jennifer's advice for marketing leaders navigating one of the most challenging - and most opportunity-rich - moments in the industry.

Connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn or at evolutionmarketingco.com.

About Anewgo Anewgo is an all-in-one new home sales and marketing platform. We equip builders with AI-ready homebuilder websites, interactive design tools, floorplans, sitemaps, AI Sales Assistants, and data analytics to create personalized buyer journeys. Learn more at anewgo.com or find every episode at anewgo.com/podcast.

Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anewgo-of-new-home-sales/id1602564768

Transcript

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Hello and welcome everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for a new episode of A Newgo of New Home Sales. I'm your host, Anya Chrisanthon, and joining me today is my dear friend, Jennifer Cooper, who is the owner of Evolution Marketing. Welcome to the show, Jennifer. I'm so excited to finally catch up with you. I know. We only see each other at shows, so it's great to see you in person. I just love you, so thank you for having me on. Aw, the feeling is mutual. So Jennifer, for those listeners who may not know who you are, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you get into home building industry, what your, path has been, and what is it that you do now? Yeah. Well, I am the founder and CEO of Evolution Marketing and now Evolution Design Studios. We are a fractional marketing consultancy, so I've got teams across the country that work with home builders and service providers, including interior design and technology, anything that has to do with home building. We come in, my team, we're very seasoned. We're at least 15 years or more experience in home building, and we come in and we either bolt on to your existing team, we fix or fill a gap where there isn't a team, or I come in and strategically work with the leadership team on operations and scale. So we really bolt on to the business as the business needs it or help that business grow. How did I get into home building? Love that. Love that question. Real quick, back in the day, I thought I was gonna be an architect. I was the only female in drafting class in high school. That kind of set the stage for what, some of my boardroom conversations would look like in the near future. Eventually, I switched over to marketing and I loved it and thought, housing, architecture, let's look into the housing industry." So, I started at Richmond American Homes, and I just, I fell in love with it and really learned the nuts and bolts of my career and my interests and found my path there. I've worked with probably between consulting and full-time employment, I've touched probably 25 builder brands over the course of my career, and I just eat, drink, sleep, love, have passion for this industry. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. So that's why I like being on these podcasts, so I can talk about my passion, my learnings, and my curiosity about how we grow as an industry. I truly love it. Well, love it. And I see all of your social media posts. You're always jetting somewhere to see one of your clients. So tell us, with this fractional role, what type of clients are the best fit for you? 'Cause I know you both work with home builders as well as technology companies in this space. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, honestly, we've worked with nationals, regionals, and even small, small builders. We have some builders that started out with just 12 homes a year. I would say, I've personally done a lot of work with those regionally seated or builders that are trying to scale. Maybe they're looking at between the, 400, 800 home range, somewhere in there, and they're looking to get into a different market. That is an area I have expertise in because I've worked on the national side, and we've seen some of those challenges, both marketing side, sales side, and operationally. I find a lot of joy in that, middle, where there is a lot of growth potential. There's some nice challenges there. But really, we've scaled in. I've had conversations with some of the nationals just from a consulting capacity, come in an audit capacity. But we'll get in and roll up our sleeves really for any type of situation. We scale to the need. Yeah. So speaking of challenges, I know you do work with a lot of clients, so is there a common concern or common mistake that you see most companies make when it comes to marketing right now? It's very reactionary. I don't think that will come to any surprise for a lot of people. And I just like to come in and say, all right, we should always be planning for the ups and downs because it will be there, right? And brand doesn't take a back seat. It doesn't take a stronger seat. It really has to be consistent, and you have to understand that. We also see in these slower software markets, we saw a little bit of an uptick of it I felt like happening towards the end of the year, where more homeowners were laying off people, or they're saying, "Where can we cut back the m-marketing budget?" But what I don't wanna see and where I really try to come in and champion is that if your growth is, kicking up a notch, but your budget is saying we're gonna stay flat, I mean, that's a recipe for not fulfilling your goals. So we talk about, like, how you have to increase it, or I can't put more leads into the pipeline, for scale if we're not gonna increase that budget. When I have that conversation, I sometimes wonder, do you really value what digital is doing? Or maybe the team hasn't done enough to show you how those increases can really matter and hit your bottom line. So that's probably the biggest challenge is just matching the spend to the growth needs. It has to match. Can't stay flat. Absolutely. Now, Jennifer, you are known for embracing technology, so you always talk about technology on the panels, and so you and I are very alike in that. Work smarter, not harder, right? Yeah. So what do you see when it comes to technology now with home builder teams? You said a lot of them are scaling back, laying people off potentially. Do you see that they're substituting that workforce with a- an alternative with technology? Are they still implementing technology? What is going on right now in the market, or do you feel like they're also taking a step back to say, like, "Whoa, we're gonna slow down on spending for that"? What I see starts from the top, meaning when I work with CEOs that embrace what marketing, they value marketing as a key spoke in the wheel, they don't pull back on that spend, and they don't pull back on the headcount. They tend to say, "We're gonna support that headcount because we need that brand. We need that voice. We need that innovation." So it doesn't mean, like, someone in the middle saying we should change that. It really comes from the top. So when I come in and work with a builder, I try to understand how is the CEO or founder, and C-suite embracing what marketing can do, what it does, and what it should be doing with the roadmap. I'm not seeing it, the scary, scary AI. I- I'm embracing AI more every single day. We have to. That's the only way we will become obsolete is if we don't learn how to attach it to us as a tool. So I'm not seeing any teams replaced by AI. I'm seeing smart teams implementing AI, and I say, just as I always wanna have the customer at the table, the customer in the room at every decision, may have-- someone may have heard me say this earlier this year at a couple conferences, I'm now bringing up that invisible chair for AI at my conversations. How can I be utilizing it to work faster, smarter? Outside of that, on like a pure tool adoption, I will be pleased and pleased to say with the tech firms that, that I've consulted with over the last few years, we've seen ramp up because I think post-COVID, more home builders are realizing I can't have black and white drawings. I can't have lackluster renderings. I need a, a sticky experience. So I'm pleased to see more home builders implementing that. Where we do tend to come in and consult is how do you implement it? What does the roadmap look like? What can you expect? And yes, it's gonna cost money. Flat out. It's gonna cost money. So how do you budget for it and now see it as a new tool, a part of your marketing budget? It's a different expense and is it in your marketing Those are conversations we have. So I'm not seeing like any other crazy new marketing tools. I think we're all getting sophisticated in the lanes that we're in and how we use AI, and how much we're really encouraging it across our teams for adoption. Yeah, for sure. So when it comes to technology in home building specifically, when you come in and take a look at their current stack, like i-is there a pattern where you're like, "Wow, if you don't have that's like the first thing we implement"? Or what are some of the must-haves for you when it comes to technology? And then I'm also curious about AI. You said a lot of builders are implementing AI now, if you can give us some of the examples of what they're doing. Yeah. So I mean, this is a true story. Many times we're not seeing like a fully robust CRM implemented and being used. So, I was having some online commentary yesterday saying like, like we are always hunting as a sales and marketing team, like especially on the OSC side, like it, it's always hunting season. There's always someone to talk to, and the CRM is like your best tool in your toolbox for that continuous season. So a lot of times it's, it's coming in and it's saying, "How is your CRM set? How are you tracking your traffic and how are you integrating all of your tools?" The hottest thing is NterNow, like self-touring, integrate self-touring tools out there. But if you're not using that, that we're, you're losing. We've seen such an increase in people coming in a-after hours on holidays. And it it gives OSCs a whole nother warm lead channel to be, work-working people when they weren't working, people weren't interested, right? That's a whole piece, and when that plugs into the CRM and you're creating a buyer journey of someone who said, "I wasn't sure if I wanted to talk to anyone yet, but here's my information," we now have a new nugget to reach out to them. So integrating that into a sequence is super important. I am gonna name drop 'cause these are my friends and they have great work, and again, none of them pay me for these endorsements. They're just the products that Novi Home, like their application adds in a whole nother piece of the buyer journey so that if I don't wanna be on the website, but I wanna be on an app and I wanna be starting to have those text conversations because everybody would rather do this than have the face-to-face, unfortunately, that's where society's going. Then they have that tool until they're ready to, come in and have more face-to-face. We've got these different options for journey mapping for customer experience. And so when I come in, it's like, one, you have a CRM. Two, how are you tracking your campaigns? Three, do you have an OSC? Is that OSC using all the tools properly? And are we in-inputting all of the pieces of the technology journey, including visualization, right? Visualization is your biggest opportunity for stickiness on the website for OSC to have some engaging conversations. Check out this virtual tour. Check out how you can play with your options for your home. That's the lowest hanging fruit we can give someone that maybe doesn't wanna chat, maybe doesn't wanna talk, maybe doesn't wanna email. We have different channels. So I kinda come in and start like, poking at the bear in a couple different areas, but very quickly I come in and see do we have the ecosystem? Is this home builder innovative? Do they need a roadmap and have they budgeted for it? And that's where we start the conversations. so it's crazy to me that we're still having the CRM conversation and making it 2026, right? That some- But it's a true story, where they have it and it's not really set up right. Like that's the thing. Oh, yeah. We, yep, yep, we have it, but it's not set up right or it's, you're not optimizing and you're not tracking, or are you using with your sales team to manage the sales team and their progress? There's just so many nuts and bolts to CRM, it's more than checking that box. That's where we come in and we ask the hard questions, and then we decide do we need to relaunch products? Do we need to optimize products? Do we need to be training on the products? Did we pick the right products? Those are all the questions. So good times. Yeah. Hopefully, with your help, we can pull them into, year 2026, 'cause, uh- Right you gotta have the CRM, you gotta use your tools and use it to the best of the tool's ability too, right? Make sure you're maximizing that tool before you buy something else. So Jennifer, when it comes to marketing, what are some of the biggest trends that you are tracking, that you're talking about with your clients that you would think like, okay, over the next one to five years, you really gotta have that on your vision and this is how marketing is shifting towards this? Yeah. Gosh, there's so many different things that we're having to watch. One, and I know you and your team at Anewgo have been championing AI, I think before anybody was willing to admit, it was coming in fast, coming in hot. And so we have to watch, that is now a conversation. It's not just about SEO, it's about AIO, it's about how are we optimizing all of our marketing to be, scraped and looking at, the schema of everything that we're doing. It's so important. So these are different digital conversations that we're having and trying to track the infiltration of AI and watching our own behavior with that. So that's just, more of a awareness, how are we pivoting? How are we structuring? So watching what AI does there. I've been bringing influencers into the home building space, honestly, probably for the last six years since they started to be more on the rise. And it's fabulous strategy to bring in, but again, with AI and, just making sure content's authentic, not overly produced. I think there's gonna be this fine line where the tools are getting so fancy. How do brands stay shiny and unique amongst these tools? And like, "Oh, I'm an editor. I'm an editor." I think that's a challenge. Like how do we stay super authentic in how we show up, but still being crunchy and seen? my son, I think of my son every day that I market. He's 11 years old, and me and my husband said, one, we don't know what his work environment's gonna be like 10 years from now, so we're really curious to help guide him on his journey. But two, how is he gonna buy a house? Because right now my kids love me, but they do not call me. They text me, they send me, little pictures and, they're self-service. They're researching things before I can even think of the word research. So if we're not changing, my son, I just use him so much and think, "What is he gonna expect out of the home buyer journey? It's not what we're offering today." So having these conversations, do we need a five-year roadmap? At least, what is that roadmap to bring in those tools to buy online, to fully develop like a full purchasing experience online? I consult on some of those tools, but that's where we have to think, one, I'm not just the marketer. Bringing in these tools is part of marketing's responsibility. We have to be thinking about customer experience. I'll bring in my teams from IT. I'll bring in my sales teams because we have to all agree on what that is. But I have to be thinking about if I can't offer whatever this is experience in 10 years from now and at the rate that our industry adopts it, that's the scary part. How will we get there, right? So, so those are things, AI, roadmap, and how do we stay above the noise when we're really kind of being drowned in the noise of digital today? Yeah. That was a long-winded answer. Sorry. No, these are all great points because you're right. It's not just like the next generation that's coming in. Like you're using the example with your 11-year-old son. Like my 14-year-old and my six-year-old, like I can't even imagine what that's gonna look like because they think completely different, act completely different from us. And I consider myself the millennial that doesn't wanna talk to anyone, like that generation is gonna be a whole other story. And then, another thing is female, right? Female, there's so much money that's gonna be transferred over specifically to females in the next, decade or so as we have kind of that baby boomer generation, di- dying off. So, so it starts I know. Where are we now? We're basically coming. And then when you get, you know, female, usually it's gonna be, a single woman left at the end of her lifetime, and it's all the money's passing to females. And we know historically females have been making more of decisions when it comes to home building, right? Vacations, all the things. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see that dynamic, shift in power when it comes to wealth. And you mentioned AEO, AIO, whatever you wanna call it, AI optimization. So are builders actually, one, asking about it now? And are they starting to optimize for it? Are they asking you about it? And then are they starting to advertise on it? I know Chat GPT just opened, the advertising on their platform for businesses, so I'm curious if you've had any- Yeah ask for it yet. I haven't had any ask for the advertising because that's like kind of evolving as we're speaking. But I will say the CEOs and founders are saying They don't really know. And they're like, Tell me about AI." It's-- they don't really know what to ask. They know they need to be watching it. They know that maybe they're using it in their business. So they are asking the question, which is good. And so like I said, we've pulled that up, pulled that chair up to the table in our conversations and our strategy. The one piece that is truly missing that builders have to, watch out for is that, AI is searching for, authenticating, like who are the people in the company and where is the, information coming from. And if your website isn't, speaking the language of AI and you don't have great blogs and content, it's looking for authority. It's trying to say "I can prove that XYZ builder builds houses." If you don't have any like authoritative content, you're losing. So perfect example, one of my builders, we just kicked up a fantastic PR strategy with an amazing national firm. We've got PR just flowing, and we're modifying our blog strategy. And so I'm like, hey, AI, how is this builder coming up?" And it's like, and it's like sourcing everything we've been doing. So I'm like, "Good job. Let's keep moving because something's gonna change tomorrow." So those are things that we have to look at, but it is, it's coming up in every conversation that when we onboard Yes, that is such a great strategy, Jen. I'm glad you mentioned that. PR, I think going forward is gonna be kind of resurrected, because over the last few years, like, people are like, "Eh, whatever, PR, whatever. What does it do for me?" But now with AI looking for that third party validation, right? Like it's not just coming from me saying how great I am, but you have to have other people say, "Oh yeah, Anya's really great." And so PR is really, really going to improve your AIO if that is what you're, looking for. Obviously, we're hopefully all looking for that because more and more buyers are searching that way, so you gotta be prepared for that. I'm using it. I have to look at my own behavior. And again, that's why I look at my kids and I ask what they're doing. They're like my little live case studies in front of me. But like I, I'm asking Chat now, like, "I need a new nail salon. Where should I go?" I'm like, oh, look what you're asking it on a day-to-day basis. I'm not going to search much, so I gotta reflect on my own behavior, right? So I encourage all builders, have conversations in your teams. How are you using it? And are you finding the information that you thought you would? Sometimes I'm like, wait a minute, there's this salon. They're not in here. Are they still in business? Oh, AI just didn't find them. Right. So have the conversations, have the coffee and conversation with your team. Absolutely. Now, Jen, I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk about your latest venture, which is Evolution Design Studio. So tell us all about that Yeah. That just honestly evolved, again, out of passion for the home building industry. And I had spent some time working with a fantastic national interior design firm on the marketing and sales side for a while. And even prior to that, I was directing model merchandising for years for some of my national and regional builders when I was in full-time roles. So I, I know best practices. I know how builders think. I've been mentored by some fantastic leaders that have taught me the nuts and bolts of merchandising. So fast-forward, I'm like, we're consulting. I'm already consulting on merchandising when we come into these roles. Why would we not look at how we bring it into our wheelhouse? I am a preferred partner of Studio MINE, founded by Owen Harrington. He is pretty well-known in the industry. Been working with home builders I think for six or seven years now. And we offer a shoppable model program, and what that means is you come in and work with our design team. Our team, I've got a team of interior designers nationally that can come in and look at, your design needs, and we do the designing, and we do the ordering, and we do the installing. What it means by working in a platform is that you're gonna receive savings, instant savings, because we're getting direct distribution of the furniture, so we get it at a better cost. So on average, we could save home builders easily $10,000 or more per model, depending on the level of quality they're looking at per square foot. So we go in, and we design it, and we install it for you You get the savings and also your home becomes shoppable. So what does that mean? Again, we're trying to create stickiness in this online experience, right? Same reasons why, Novi Home and some of these other apps I mentioned are important is because the customer is very app-minded. So when we have the opportunity to walk through a home, the home doesn't really fit me, but maybe I like that couch, maybe I wanna go check out a model down the street. Everybody's known that people walk in and ask the salesperson, "Where can I get that couch? Where can I get that dining room table?" It's a long, long-lived question. Now they can, scan a QR code in the home because the home is fully shoppable. What does that also mean for the home builder? The home builder automatically gets, a percentage of the sales of the furniture, and they don't do one thing about it. They sign off on the model. It's, curated. They review the m-mood boards online. Everything's seamless and digital. And then we basically turn that home into a storefront, an online storefront that they can shop at any time. We handle all of the procurement if someone buys it, and they don't do a purchase order, they don't handle the warranty of the furniture. They just get a check. So ideally, in a perfect world, they're, one, saving on the model. Two, they're getting some revenue, reoccurring revenue off of sales of that storefront. The biggest thing that I love as a marketer, the software side of me, is that I've now created a shoppable storefront where I can talk about my model home and then say, "Shop this model home," and getting just more engagement, people going back to my website. I need all those sticky tools. That's important. Again, we're creating a different ecosystem of one, we care more about just the bricks and sticks. Attachment sales are real because the customer lives their life there. They don't just make the purchase. This is one more prong in that experience. Yeah, that's such a great idea. We've been talking about the concept of shoppable model homes for a while, and there's been a couple of attempts at that, so I'm glad that you are doing this now. So Jen, who would be the ideal, customer for that? Is there a minimum number of models, minimum number of communities that you have to get to that you become a good fit for this? No. In fact, we have a builder that's just doing like 12 homes, is very interested in doing that. We are working with a few nationals that are testing it in a couple different markets. I brought it to one of my, statewide builders that does about 700 homes a year, and they completely brought the program in-house. And so the way they're using it is they have an internal team that oversees their design studio and their collections. And those fabulous ladies also really wanted to be a big part of the brand experience. So I was like, "Oh, you're trained in interior design. Let's have you run the program, use this platform, save money, and then the marketing team has a whole 'nother tool." So my team doesn't even really have to be fully involved. If you have an in-house design team, this is a tool for them to build faster, smarter. It constantly calculates their cost per square foot. The tool itself is fantastic, and the interior designers I've brought in who are used to a very traditional procurement model are like, "This is a game changer. It saves time." So there's two different ways that I can introduce builders, and again, I wasn't really looking for, I wanna go start another business. I just saw it as I'm already consulting on this experience. I'm already champion- championing what attachment sales can do. Let's just bring it in our wheelhouse. We're already having the conversation. We can work with any size builder, to be quite honest, and many times they wanna test out how it feels for their brand and their experience. That's amazing. Again, I think being an ex-salesperson, like I remember so many times people coming through the model home and be like, "Where is this from? Where is this from?" And it's like, "I don't know." I know. And we cut the tags off everything in the industry 'cause we don't wanna be attached to the brand. So you're like, I really don't know where that couch came from. Exactly. So I'm curious, is there a way to track someone? Say if they come into your model home, they're really not interested in the home itself, like you said, but they are interested in the furniture and they're shopping around on their own, and maybe they scan one of those QR codes, for the couch. Is there a way to track that lead in any way? You know, I love that question actually, Anya. There is a way if the builder wants to create a landing page that's a lead form, but then has a link to the online studio. Or if you didn't wanna make the... Which I don't know why you wouldn't, but if you didn't wanna make the client like stop somewhere first, then you could just take them strictly to the online storefront. But that's smart. But yeah, depending, but totally. We can always make, make those, a little bit of gated content experience. We wanna try to, to track it and see. With that way we would track the lead like they went in, but I don't have any way of tracking once they give their information and credit card in that system, that is, personal different transaction. But we could track people going into the storefront for sure. Yeah. Do you know what the take rates are at this point? Say for every 100 people walking through the model, how many actually pull out their phone and scan something? I don't have that take rate, but you know what? Now I'm gonna go ask. It definitely will probably vary by builder depending on, there's some national builders, that I didn't personally work with in the program, but that are working in it today that have, over 30, 40, 50 storefronts. So they're gonna have a bit of a different, maybe a different, depends probably on density, how long the model's been open, but that's a great question. I will find out and get back to you because I love that. Sounds good, 'cause I'm always all about the numbers when it comes to marketing, so it's like- I know this is an interesting new way that- Yes to engage your customers and then, if you do, do the landing page, if there's a way for you- Yeah to track them over time and maybe, you can do certain marketing for the customer for next- Yeah community opening, so you can still engage that population, that's just such a great way to continue that experience. Love that. Yeah. Now we just need to add shoppable car right by the model home, right? There you go. I mean, if we're gonna be spending money. There you go. Yeah. Those are conversations. Do you have an EV, and can you fit my big Ford truck or RV? I mean, those are all conversations, again, off of just the footprint of the home. But, I really wanna go back real quick and say what makes shoppable model experience work is the marketing. Cause the home builder may want it just for the platform for their interior design team. They may just want it because they're getting overall better quality furniture and savings, or they may like it for the shoppable experience. So I've seen some builders that are like, "That's cool, but that's not why I'm doing it." And when they don't put in the marketing and the customer path and, like, the little prompts throughout the house, it doesn't work. Like anything, you put intent around it to drive results. I just wanted to put that out there because I'm like, I have a feeling when I go back, I'm gonna have to then look at each builder and say, "Well, how much, how rigorous were they with the marketing program?" It's like anything else. If you don't market it, it doesn't get used. So just wanted to put that in. There, there's that marketing again. So Jen, before I let you go, was there anything that I didn't ask you today that you think is important for our listeners to understand, whether it's about marketing or shoppable models or anything else we did or did not talk about? Oh, well, that's a really good question. I felt like we covered off on so many different things. I'm excited. I think this is one of the most challenging times, in my career, which I was like, I'm starting to be like, "I wanna say how many years," 'cause I think 10. But it's so, there's, it's, we have to be so digitally and data obsessed to be good at what we do. Mm-hmm. And so I actually was talking to one of my team members the other day with a builder, and, and she was asking, "What's the secret to success?" And I said, "Wake up every day and ask why." If you lead every day with curiosity of how can I do something better, why didn't we do it that way, why is it not working out, what's not being done? I mean, the more questions and the more we drive every day with curiosity, we're gonna do a better job, we're gonna get smarter, and I think we're gonna be just more engaged in what we're doing. So I'll leave that with advice. How about that? I love that. Love that. All right, Jennifer, so if somebody wants to learn more about whether they're interested in fractional CMO services or they're interested in implementing shoppable models what's the best way to connect with you? And also where do you hang out online if somebody wants to just friend you and chat with you? Thank you. Yeah, on the business side, I'm just connected on LinkedIn, I'm very, very active on it. It's a great channel for our network. So feel free to message me there. I'm Jennifer Cooper with Evolution Marketing, or you can go to evolutionmarketingco.com and book a meeting, and myself and/or one of our team, national team members, but get in touch on how we might serve you. So, or I just love to talk shop. Just wanna have a conversation, let me know. Amazing, and I will link all of that information in the show notes to make it easy for you guys to find that. Jennifer, thank you so much for being on today. I mean, you're always so quick-witted. You're just amazing. I love chatting with you. I love being on the panels with you. And is there any events that are on your radar for this year where people may be able to connect with you? Yes. Well, I feel like we got through the first part of event season. The next one I've got actually found a little bit of a gap personally, but I will be at Builder Innovator. There's more to come. We've got a little announcement for that one, so I can't disclose anything else but October, so. Well, enjoy your summer off, and, uh, I'm sure we'll see you at Builder Innovator as well. Thank you for being here with us today, and talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you.