Date with Cents
Date with Cents
How Joan Went from “Dating is Exhausting” to an Abundant, Luscious Love Life
Joan had it all—degrees, a successful career, and a full life. But when it came to dating, she was exhausted. She was tired of the wrong men, the dating pressure, and the struggle to find something real.
In this episode, Joan shares how she shifted from burnout to attracting high-quality men with ease. She explains how she stopped shrinking herself, started clearly stating her desires, and leaned into the power of pleasure and alignment. Plus, she reveals the simple yet powerful strategies that helped her turn things around.
If you’re frustrated with dating and not getting the results you want, this episode is for you!
Work with me to enjoy dating and meet quality men on your level.
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What's up, lover girl, welcome back to the Date With Sense podcast. At the time that you will be listening to this podcast episode, I will be home in Lake City, south Carolina, grieving with my family, my grandmother. She passed away last week and so her funeral is being held this week, and so I, um, her funeral is being held this week as you're listening to this episode. I'll be with family and, uh, my grandmother she was. I spent a lot of time with her growing up. We, I lived with her quite a bit, and so just having a week to kind of gather things and, um, pretty much cleared my calendar for the week, so not even taking coaching calls and just being able to pick up and go and enjoy my family. And I feel so grateful that I have a business that allows me to be so flexible for such a last minute, because we can't predict when people die right for such a last minute, um, cause we can't predict when people die Right. Um, and then also for the men in my life, shout out to my front runner, latin poppy, who purchased the flight for me. And then shout out to big body bins, who took care of my hotel stay while I'm, while I'm out and, um, I just I'm really really grateful. Shout out to all my clients that you know I let them know like hey, I won't be available. Shout out to everybody really supporting me and sending me love and condolences during this time. Of course it's not the happiest, but it just feels really good to be in community. That's very loving and very supportive. So I just thank you. Community, that's very loving and very supportive. So I just thank you. Thank you everybody for loving and supporting me in that way and thank you for your prayers and affirmations as my family navigate this, you know, with my grandmother not being a part of our lives, you know with with my grandmother not being a part of our lives. And speaking of community, I did a podcast episode. I recorded a podcast episode today actually with a client of mine and it was perfect because I didn't plan on releasing any client episodes until later, because I'm just getting back into recording episodes with clients and I wasn't planning on releasing it until later. And once I got like a few clients, we recorded episodes and I'm like, look, I don't, I don't have the capacity to create a brand new episode for the date with since podcast. So the fact that we were able to record and have this be an episode for this week was amazing, so I'm happy.
Speaker 1:This particular episode features my client, joan, and Joan is a busy professional. She's an assistant VP at higher education. She is a powerhouse woman, she's published, she is someone who's just very loved by family and friends and one of the biggest pain points in her life was her love life. She came to me wanting three main things. Number one she wanted audacity, because, although she had audacity in her career when it came to her social life and really just doing big, major things in her life, when it came to love and dating she didn't really have it at all. And she wanted the audacity to be able to expect more, have more, ask for more when it came to men. Number two she wanted to date better men.
Speaker 1:When she first came to me, she was still dating and entertaining men who we would define as projects men in their late thirties and forties who were still trying to figure life out, who was still um, quote unquote, building themselves, and they just didn't match the caliber of woman that she was when it came to intellect and culture and ability to move in and out of different spaces and places. So she wanted to be able to do that. And number three, she wanted to be able to date multiple men at a time. She was not going out on dates I think the only dates she was able to really secure were the ones through her matchmaker. So you'll learn a little bit more about that, as we have in conversation but not really being able to secure dates on her own and then also date multiple men at the same time. So this was her first time being able to do that. So, yes, we worked together. She was able to get the audacity that she's always wanted to really boldly ask for men for what she wanted and set really high standards for these men to meet them and not just meet them, be excited about meeting them. For her, she was able to attract much better men who have been able to match her caliber and be able to hold their own with her, and then she was also able to date multiple men at the same time. She was able to completely stop over-investing in one man and allow multiple men to love on her, to adore her, to show up for her and yeah, I'm just really excited for you to hear for her, it was really really amazing, just to be a part of her journey in her life and, without further ado, I would like for you to listen to a fun conversation that we had that I hope really inspires you, encourages you to experience this yourself.
Speaker 1:Here's the episode. Ooh, welcome to the David Sands podcast, because I have an amazing guest that's joining us today. Okay, all right, I'm going to stop, but, yo, I have an amazing client that is here to share her story today. She is an assistant vice president in higher education, living in New Jersey, full of life, full of energy, full of wins, full of audacity, and I'm saying that because that's exactly one of our first conversations that we had. It was centered around it, but we're going to get into that a little bit later. But, yeah, welcome to the show we have, joan hey y'all, I'm joan.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's so good to be here with you, torah I know, thank you for agreeing to come to the show to talk to the people, because people need to hear you. Um, and I told joan, it's been a while since I've conducted some interviews. I'm like, look, we got to get some more clients on the show, let people know what's possible and to see what's really out here. So we're not going to prolong the time. I want to start off with our signature intro. Three words, joan, to describe your love life.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'm ready. So I'm going to give them to you all at once and I'm going to break them down. So I said it is pleasurable, it is kind and it is aligned. I'm Baptist so I had to rhyme the last two. And so pleasurable because it is a delight, it is joyful and it brings me pleasure. Pleasure is one of my core values and that's really important. I live a phenomenally pleasurable life. My dating, romantic life should be no different, should not be any different.
Speaker 2:That skips us to the third one which is aligned is that this part of my life finally aligns to how I live the rest of my life. It's just values, wise, like I got really clear. I guess we'll talk about that when it comes to actually doing your work around. This is the way I do, the way I experience and do romance and partnership and all that jazz is. Does this align with my values? How close is it to it? Girl, you are off. This is not it. You need to get it right. And so there's not a lot of confusion, because where there's confusion means there's some non-alignment. Something needs to be figured out. That middle one is kind because, tori, you know I can be kind of hard on myself.
Speaker 2:I mean, I can be really, really tough on myself and my mom had to have a good come to Jesus with me a couple months ago about how hard I was on myself. My therapist was told me I was being mean to myself and I was like y'all are on crack cocaine? Absolutely not. Not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that. But I say kind instead of nice, because we say clarity is kindness. That's what Brene Brown said and that means that it's not the fake niceties that might stab you in the back. It is clear, it is accountable, but it is this extra measure of care and thoughtfulness, it is kindness that seeks to, you know, be about meeting a need.
Speaker 2:So I would say those three would describe my romantic love life, but I cheat. So I'm going to say a fourth. One is luscious. I just be floating around Tora, I just be floating around la-di-da-di-ing, like, thinking about how I get to describe myself and describing what I want to do, being able to cultivate. It's also very creative. My love life is creative because I get to say what imaginative, if creative, is too far, what is it that I desire and how do I get to do it? Like, how do I make that come to pass and how do I invite these men into it and they be taking these invitations and the ones that don't. May the Lord be between me and thee while we have someone from another.
Speaker 2:But yeah, those are my three low-key five words I cheated, I did but five is the number, grace, so thank you for having me so how about this?
Speaker 1:how about this? Because we about to dive into the, the first one that you talked about yeah pleasure right oh, we're gonna, we're gonna, just we're gonna throw lusciousness in with pleasure, so we're gonna talk about. I want to know what makes your love life pleasurable right now, luscious right now yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, what's making it pleasurable and luscious right now is that I I am in a position where I get to make choices and the choices are beautiful and they're abundant and it's pleasurable in that Joan is having a good time, like I have pleasure in the fact in my calendar when I have moments, I put like a little like purple passion thing next to me in my calendar. So I'm like, oh, this is a connection that's centered on pleasure and so that's fun. So it's looking like you know the you know Valentine's day just passed and it's such a hoopla all around. But a girl loves ice cream cakes and things. I got flowers, uh, ice cream cake, just really a little heart shape ice cream cake and it was so cute. Again, it's not even like everything's not big, big, big all the time, but I didn't even ask for it. This guy and I had been out on a date prior where we had gone and decorated ice cream cakes and we were out so late that the ice cream cake melted in the trunk and he did not forget that. I was so sad about my ice cream cake because I love it. So for Valentine's Day he was like I know I messed up the last time. Here's this cake and I'm like I know I messed up. The last time here's this cake and I'm like that was last calendar year, it didn't matter.
Speaker 2:What makes it pleasurable is that I'm not pressed about what I'm doing. If I want to do it, I do it. If I don't, I don't. So things about me. I actually don't like dinner dates. I don't. I'd rather go to breakfast and I don't like painting sips and I don't like painting sips. I don't want to sip on your cheap rosé. I don't like it. I'm not keeping this painting, but I am open to this pottery class. I would love if we could go to. I would love if we could do a late night dessert at my favorite diner up the road, because it's just someplace I want to go and I would like to have time. I would love if we could go to the cigar bar. Oh, I've never had a woman. Want to go there with me? Yeah, and this is the bourbon I want to go with this.
Speaker 2:This was one of the best dates of my life. It's a good time. It's a good time because I'm having a good time. My old self would do things and go places because I was just glad I had a date. I just, you know, okay, I'm just on a date, and the date was so high pressure. He was either my husband or that was it right. It was either the connection of a lifetime or that's it.
Speaker 2:So everything was very like well, what about kids? Well, who's your pastor? Well, how much money do you make? Or, well, tell me about you know, how many people have you been in a relationship with them? Why haven't they worked out? Very, I call it Chick-fil-A nice. They're nice, but like you got to watch it and so it wasn't fun.
Speaker 2:I didn't have fun on dates.
Speaker 2:I was so stressed out, trying to figure out if this is going to be my husband or not, and I'm like I don't have time for that.
Speaker 2:And so this allows me to really be myself, which is a fun person, a lovable person, and actually get what I want.
Speaker 2:I want to be out with men who I have something I'm curious about learning men whose company I enjoy, be it for just tonight or for the rest of a life, so be it, but I can have a good time and that matters because it's the moments that you make good time and that matters because it's the moments that you make and luscious is just like voluptuous, rich and abundant, and like luxurious and soft even, but not in the way that we've gotten to be ridiculous with the soft life sometimes, but just like I am okay in that. So that's what's making it pleasurable and luscious. It's the autonomy, it is the getting my desires met, it is the knowing that I can ask and request and write something out and a man will say, yeah, I would love to do that. That's amazing, because they don't have to and the ones that choose to, it's like ah, you're really going to go on this journey with me. Let's go. Like let's go. It's just wonderful, I love it.
Speaker 1:It's a good time, girl. Listen, I'm loving all of the energy, and the one reason why I really love talking about pleasure when it comes to dating and following our pleasure is because many of us growing up in good girl, yes, we folk like how you mentioned about you not liking dinner dates we folk like how you mentioned about you not liking dinner dates you not liking like the typical dates that people have, I guess, expected us to just accept because we were on a date. We do the things, not liking them, but we leave with our pleasure. It doesn't matter what the date looks like, we're going to enjoy it because it's exactly what we want to experience.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And a wise woman once told me a day can't be born if you're not born. Who was that wise woman? It was you.
Speaker 2:It was you A born can't be date if you own it. And I was like she's not wrong and I'm not boring. And I was like Joan, do you have boring dates? And I was like no, it's not you.
Speaker 2:But what that also told me, tor, was that I need a better lens to wish to understand dates, because what happens sometimes is I am my own best company period and so I'm out on these dates and the man is like, oh God, that was such a good day. And I'm like I mean it was cool, but I didn't really get nothing from like, but you have such good energy when I'm supposed to have bad energy. I got to be here too. That is bananas and not a milkshake Like I don't want that. So I was like let's get it.
Speaker 2:So this idea of this pleasure and this luxury, this like lusciousness, it just helps me to actually be in a space where I am taken care of while we are making this amazing experience together. Again, even if it's just this date, because sometimes that happens Plenty of times. That's going to happen. You're going to go on a date. It's cool, but you're like, no, that's not really going to drive, or either. There's nothing else I could be curious about. I've exhausted my curiosity and I'm complete here and I thank you so much for that, and it's time for me to shake rattle and roll.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, okay, all right. The second girl. What was it again? I forgot Okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, kindness, you know nice girl will get you what. At some point in my past I was on jam and I wrote this article, this blog post called Nice is a Trap, and I've always been struggling with this nice, because nice will get you messed up, nice will play in your face and wish you unwell and so kind. I'm Christian, more the Peter type, but I'm Christian, so I like therapy and I curse. Kindness is a fruit of the spirit and so for me that actually matters, right, that someone can be kind. So kindness to our bodies, kind to my mind, kind to the other person, and part of that kindness is being clear, so that everyone has the opportunity to agree or disagree or figure out what else they want to contribute to the conversation, so we can have clarity. And so that kindness requires me to not be nice. It is my way of tricking myself out of falling into nice girl and the trappings of nice. So it says y'all, what is it that you actually want? All right, how do you invite someone into this conversation? I use my desire method, shout out to you OK, here's what this will look like, here's what that sounds like. I would really appreciate that. Would you be open to that, again, always invitational, because I'm never going to tell another grown person what to do. I value autonomy, including my own, and so I find that that kindness gives me room to be honest, be sincere, but, above all else, be clear, and it is not fake. So it looks like that kindness can look like when someone sends me oh gosh, men are so funny, I'm busy, I don't have time, I don't have time, but they got time to text you all day. I really focus when I'm at work. I really do. I've gotten better with my boundaries on. I need to focus on work at work so I can be fully present elsewhere in my life when I leave. And so what I've told men is hey, you're welcome to text me throughout the day. I, however, will likely only respond once I'm done with my work for the day, because I want to be able to give my responsibilities, give my full attention to you or whatever it is I'm working with, and sometimes they're like oh, that's really dope, but sometimes they're like well, I want to talk, I want a woman who I can talk to all the time. Amen, I love that for you, baby, that's not me, that's not me, it's not, it's not me and that's okay. That's okay. And so that kindness is like hey, I would love to chat with you and I'll be able to do that fully closer to 730 by phone or FaceTime. Is that something that can work for you? And the answer is always yes. Yes, of course it can.
Speaker 2:Kindness also is me remembering that I have a full life outside of dating and so I need to stay on. My reformer. That rower or that walking pad need to call me in the morning. I love my sleep. I need to be in bed by certain times. So if you call me or text me after nine o'clock, baby boy, I'm going to have to see that text in the morning. I mean, unless I'm out here riding around and getting it acting free in the streets morning, I mean unless I'm out here riding around and getting it acting free in the streets, I'm going to have to get it the next day or whenever.
Speaker 2:I am inspired to respond to that. And it's not rude, it is being kind to my own life. So that's what it looks like with being kind and in relationship like politics and relationship are really close together, I don't ever want to be rude or disrespectful, so the kindest thing I can offer sometimes is silence or distance, and that's the framing for it is. You know what. I can't actually be any more kind here. I've exhausted it. This is internal dialogue. What that translates out into is I've enjoyed the time that we've had together. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and kindness, and this is not the match that I'm looking for. I really wish you well, because nice doesn't work and mean is not acceptable. So kindness remembers that that's another person and you don't need to be rude, you don't need to be disrespectful, but you need to be clear. That's what kindness looks like. It's wild. The implications of it. I love it, though.
Speaker 1:It's so empowering okay, so we got pleasure, kindness, and then we have aligned. And let's throw creativity in that one as well, like what makes your love life aligned and creative right now yeah, you know it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It's the everyday simple stuff, torah. It's the everyday simple stuff, tora. It's the everyday simple stuff. I had the gastric sleeve done five years ago about five, six years ago which means I can only eat child-sized portions of food at a time. So men have been socialized to want to take you to these big dinners and for other women that works For me. Once I eat appetizers I'm full, so I'm just sitting at a dinner looking at you sideways. I don't want to do that. I would much rather, in what I do in my everyday life is say what is something that I've been wanting to go do? What is the exhibit at the museum I want to go see. What is the event that's coming up that I've been wanting to go to that I would love to have company for. Let's see if that works. This coming up week I'm going to a local museum that's having this big African inspired fashion show and I have a delightful date. He cannot wait to go to that. He's so excited, he's thrilled. I don't know when the last time that man's been to a museum, but he can't wait to go with me. Okay, and so you have to ask for what you want and the alignment of this is actually what worked for me, and I think of alignment as like for me, part of my dignity.
Speaker 2:Honoring work is like what is it that you need? What are your values? Joy is always in there. Autonomy is always in there. Community is always in there. What puts you in the space of those things? That helps you to convey those things and demonstrate them in your real life? So Maya Angelou had this quote that I'm about to tear up toward, but it's like I want to be a woman who is kind, is intelligent and who teaches by being, and that teaches by being bless me when I heard it 10 years ago. And so you have to teach people how to treat you.
Speaker 2:And I again, I like a fancy dinner from time to time, but I'm going because my outfit is bomb and my shoes look good and it's going to be a cute crowd event. I can't physically eat all that, but if it's something I actually want to get to know somebody about, it's not going to be over a big dinner on a first date. That's later on, when you know I'm eating kids meals in real time and we're just sitting there chatting it up because you had a long day and you want a good company Sounds great. Alignment can also for me, look like being clear with some boundaries. So without on a date, I like physical pleasure too. So I'm not one of the church girls who don't, I do. I have a good time, a real good time.
Speaker 2:I like hand-holding, cuddling, canoodling, kissing. I thank God. And so I had finished up a really dope day and he went in for a kiss. But it was the first date and I just was not there for that. So I gave him a quick little mwah, mwah and he went in again and I was like you are so delightful and those lips look so luscious and I'm not ready for, like you, to put your tongue in my mouth yet. And he was like no, that's okay, that is just fine. And I was now okay. Now see, tori, here's another lesson. Old me would have said I know that's okay, it's my body. You can't tell me what to do. What I did was I honored that. He recognized that. He said yep, nope, you're right, and I just held my peace because it was unnecessary. That would have been me making a power move. There was no need for that. So we went on another day and them lips was doing a job. Okay, delay is not denied.
Speaker 2:Don't let nobody fool you, but that alignment matters, for to say I enjoy myself and I'm not ready for that kind of physical intimacy yet it's just the kids. You can never simplify or minimize your desires as just it's not OK. Try not to do that. So I was like it's not just the kids and he didn't make it out, but it was just, you know, really easy and peasy and alignment to us. I would like to be married and I don't want children. I do not want biological children. So I will be a really dope step-mom. I will be a really dope adoptive mom. I will still adopt children, I will foster to adopt, but handmade babies from scratch, that's not my ministry girl, that's not me. And so, being clear with men on that again, we can still go out, have really great days, and if your desire is to be with a woman who desires biological children from scratch, I'm not the woman for you.
Speaker 2:And it is fascinating the responses from men like, oh, you would be a great mom. I didn't say I wouldn't, I said I don't desire that. And so, remembering what my desires are and that I have desires for my life too, and I'm the one who knows I enjoy my sleep, then I need to say I need to be clear, kind and walk in alignment with that. If he's like no, I really need this, we need to compromise. I don't compromise on children. Children are not things to compromise. I actually value children deeply. I value children, I respect children. They are not things to compromise on. They are whole people, whole people, and my work as a doula helps me and reminds me about that every day. They are whole little people that depend on us and we all be responsible with their charge. I just don't want them in my house all the time from scratch Not at 41. I can't do a girl. I like my sleep.
Speaker 1:My sleep and I love the fact that you're talking about this because, based upon our good girl upbringing, we are expected to be mothers. We are expected to raise children as mothers and have babies from scratch.
Speaker 2:if we are biologically capable of like, that's what we're expected to people get mad, which people don't even stop to consider that some people, literally their bodies, cannot have children and they are penalized for that.
Speaker 2:There are social ways. No, this idea that you just that's just what you have to do, I haven't received. I mean, when I was younger, you know so, older me, younger me wanted children. In my younger days tour I was a purity culture girl. I had the purity culture ring. It's so embarrassing to say that out loud, but you don't go through stuff to keep it to yourself. I had a purity culture ring. I was deep in the lifestyle. I was never going to have it. Nah, I wanted three kids by 25. And then I would go get my JD at 30. Well, I kept living. I went and got my undergrad, then got my master's moved around, then got my doctorate. Still no kids, still no husband. I said, well, you got to figure out what you're going to do with this life. What do you want? How do you want to live? How is this going to work for you? And so once I got to a certain age, I was still tinkering with maybe I would have kids. So you were actually interested.
Speaker 1:I thought you were child-free.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I thought you wanted child-freeness forever.
Speaker 2:No, no, oh, surprise, surprise, no, ma'am, I was fully committed to having children. I wanted children, had to say do you want to be a parent just to be a parent, or do you actually want to be a mom? Like, you need to make a choice because people are going to talk either way. What do you want? And I said, well, I want to be a mother, I want to be a parent, but I'm not committed to it from a from scratch baby. There are children all across this country, in my own neighborhoods, who need moms or people who love them, and that's fine, and so I had to separate that out. But no, I wanted children, I wanted to be married, I wanted all those things to be together. As one Wanted to change your last name and hyphenate. Well, I didn't get to hyphenate until later, but I was like, oh, I'm going to have a new last name, I ain't going to have my daddy's name much longer Psych. And now it's not my daddy's last name, it's mine. So shout out to my dad.
Speaker 2:But that's my name and so, probably in my 30s, was when I had to make a decision for myself. I had to get really clear and Lord, the snake's going to throw me out. But my tarot reading for my 40th birthday one of my good friends and mystics did it and she said you know your ancestors particularly I think it was my grandmother came through and said, basically, you, you need to decide, you need to make a real decision on what you're going to do about these children. And I know my parents want what I desire and they knew I desired children, so they desired that for me, but they never desired them so that they could have grandchildren. And I'm blessed by that because I know there are people whose parents put pressure on them because of the entitlement around grandchildren.
Speaker 2:I don't have that, but I came to it on my own and now I get to have my surgery in just a couple of weeks to have my tubes removed to solidify that, because I don't want there to be any possibility that a little you know biological mix with another biological and it's a handmade baby Girl. I would be at the altar, girl laid out. What would I do with a baby? Oh, my God, at 41, girl, I'm tired already, but for women who desire that, hold the line on that we always get to check through. The beauty of living is we always get to change our mind. We just need to be clear, and that means we have to do our work to say what is it that we desire and can we see how we could build it?
Speaker 2:and I don't mean like doing all, like yes, build it alongside somebody else, but there's actual work in our lives we have. We have to build our own. We are responsible for our lives and so working with you was really helpful in that there were visions I have for my life right, my schooling done, doctorate done uh, nice job done uh, loved by friends and if I got missing would have people ready to activate, done the man I want, the romance I want in my life. I just couldn't get that thing to stay my life and I was working with another coach prior and she was so great on a host of things she really was, uh. But then I ran into your work and was like this is actually really helpful because it wasn't about men, it was about me. It was about me. I'm actually curious.
Speaker 1:Without talking about the coach's name, I would love to know what stood out for for you when it came to like my work for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, my former coach again, phenomenal, love her down. She knows what I'm out here doing. I mean she was good. She would give me like she would talk me through and say, okay, here's what you're trying to do. What else are you open to Keep your mind open?
Speaker 2:What I loved about your work was it was practical. It was straight to the point. I mean, both of y'all talked to me and got me in order because I'm wild. Both of y'all was like girl, what the are you doing? I'm like living. And y'all was like wrong, you're not, no, no, joe. But your work was really practical and I really appreciated the way you talked about feminine, feminine energy in a non essential, boring, passive way. It was a very balanced, delicate way of saying you can invite people in and you can also draw boundaries and you are responsible. So get it right and get it tight. And so telling somebody what they're going to do is not going to get you that, because you're not respecting the autonomy of the other person, which for me, is a man. And so how do you honor his autonomy, honor your autonomy and actually invite him into something that y'all can grow together and blossom together?
Speaker 1:That's good, hold on. I want to know what you mean by feminine energy being passive and breaking down for people who listening.
Speaker 2:So I now torah, they finna think I'm crazy. So I'm a black feminist to my core, all day, all night. So everything for me is structure, structure, structure, right. Patriarchy. Down with the patriarchy, down with the sexism.
Speaker 2:In the midst of that, though, there was this sort of counter piece to that, and they were seen as counters when they shouldn't have been Right. But it's just. You know, women aren't in their feminine energy, and da, da, da, da da, and they're too masculine. And for black women in particular, and other women of color, our autonomy and agency has been weaponized against us to undercut our womanhood in ways that were not meant for our own good. It was to say that we actually just were not women and that we then could not be feminists, and we were not afforded, and should not be afforded, niceness, softness, kindness, support on any acknowledgement of our agency.
Speaker 2:And so this other piece of feminine, masculine energy that sometimes gets thrown, that oftentimes gets thrown around, is me man, me do you woman? You just take, and I'm like you just receive, and I'm like. It's kind of simple, because all humans experience a range of things. I'm an assistant vice president, I have a whole doctorate. I'm not getting there from just receiving, receiving. I have things I need to do. So there are times where I'm like, no, I know this need to get done, I need to get done, let me go do it. So I'm in and out of those energies.
Speaker 2:And so what you said was look, we all have these energies, y'all, but when we are asking and not but, and when we are asking men to be about their business and get things done, the way we want to invite them into, that is to say, here's what I have in mind. Is this something you're willing to do? Is this something you're interested in? And then it says I have a vision. Basically, can you meet me in on this? And then can you go to work around it? And that is an invitation that actually works, because what it also does for the man that says, oh, she has a need for me and despite what we've told them is the money is nice, don't get me wrong. You protected me is nice. I got my own. That's great. But what can you? How can you show up and support me? That's what we're asking them now.
Speaker 2:And that is how you show up and support me. What it does for me is that I don't have to argue with y'all. I'm not going to argue with you. I invited you in. I told you what I desired. I might have told you what I needed or why, why that was needed, how that would be useful. You made a choice to do or not to do. You did. That's fine. That is your choice. I can find someone else who will partner with me on this and come in with me on this or meet that desire. Right, and we're good. And so then I don't need to say that's why you're not this and that's why you're not that and that's why you ain't got it, and because that's not kind either. They made a choice, let them, but it also then lets me just reset it, lets me have the life I want without doing all that extra work.
Speaker 2:I have to have done my thought work. I have to make sure that I can actually follow up on what I said when I say any man who's ever loved me has come out better. I'm not bullshitting with that, I'm really not. I'm not lying. They are all better. They can lie in public, but they don't. Not a single one of them will tell you my life was worse because I dated her. I'm better, I'm transformed. Love does that and not just romantic. All love does that. So that route of feminine energy gives me room to be fully who I am.
Speaker 2:Because, again, often, as Black women and as women of color, sometimes we don't always get to do that. It is go, do, do, do. And again, I don't have children, I'm not partnered, so I don't else. Within a container that we've crafted to support us and enable us to rest, to find pleasure, to have comfort, it grows trust right. It allows us to imagine even greater. For me it is very renewing and reassuring and it says there are people, there are men who will come alongside us in this and who actually want me to be well Again, old school, no, they destroy all men who abuse their power, absolutely yes.
Speaker 2:And my man cannot be responsible for all the patriarchy, joan, that doesn't work. It doesn't work. I don't like women like that. I think we're beautiful, but I'm not sexually attracted to women. So if I'm going to date men because that's who I like, I need to find a way that is reasonable to work with them. And working with you has been really helpful in that. I know they're not responsible for all of it, but you are responsible for how you show up with me.
Speaker 1:And I can do something with that. Talking about responsibility, let's do a quick rewind. I'm going to rewind because we're talking a lot of good stuff right now and a lot of what you're currently experiencing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go back to before all of this, before Tora BT go back to before all of this, before torah bt and you taking responsibility for what? Was happening, torah, get out of here. It was they fault, torah. It was they fault. It's they fault while I'm not married it's they fault. No.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on, hold on let's talk about why you came to me in the first place to take responsibility. Oh, yeah, yeah. Why did you even come? Came to me in the first place to take responsibility? Oh, yeah, yeah. Why did you even come work with me in the?
Speaker 2:first place.
Speaker 2:So first of all, I had I don't know where I saw you, tora, but so this girl is crazy, but it's my kind of carrying on. Okay, I, I don't know where I saw you, but I guess your content came up on Instagram and you were talking about um conversations that invite commitment or something like that, and I was like, oh, that sounds cute, that sounds fun. So we learned about you know the tricks to the trade and, again, useful life skills. You are very creative with these names, but they're useful life skills, right? So with the, you know being a bomb ass, you know having creating bomb ass experiences, and the three C's, the triple C's, it was just clear and it was easy, right, simple, but not always easy Right. And so I was like, wow, this is really good, this is really good. I was like she seems like she knows what she's talking about. Let me just sit back and implement this in my own life.
Speaker 2:So I was, you know, trying to apply it, try it here, try it there. You know I'm overachiever, so I would write it down and write out my steps. And then you had another, I think I. Then I got an old summer bundle retreat. So I learned about the solar system and, oh, when you came out with whole phase. I was like, oh my gosh, this is my kind of carrying on, so holding out on exclusivity. That was called the whole phase because the men folks had their boxes in a bunch. Baby, that she was saying we should date and have rotations until we are exclusive, like that's whole behavior. Baby, call it what you want to I'm a big hoe.
Speaker 1:I'm a hoe.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm a hoe, as they say in this house.
Speaker 1:There's some holes in the house, if you see hey.
Speaker 2:And so I was like, man, she's really good. And I was like I'm gonna join one of the cohort programs, that's it. I'm gonna join a cohort program. And then I was like, oh, I don't know if I can. I don't know if I can, so now I block my blessing.
Speaker 2:But then Tora started talking about these one-on-one coachings and I was like, now, that might be my ministry, that might be it. So you had the um, the well-pleased woman workshop, and I was like, oh, this is so good, this is so good. And I was like, joan, just make the investment. Like you got it right, you can do it. So I was like, well, let me write in and see what I can do. Of course she was like, yeah, we can hop on a call. And I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So first I fangirled for like 10 seconds. I was like Joan, she's going to ask questions. Because the thing is, you just ask questions. You are a phenomenal coach. You're saying, why, why, why, why, why. Imagine this, so you do good dream work. Imagine that. What do you see? And you were able to see where some of my limiting thoughts were. You were able to see where I already had good framework in place or good habits or good thought that I could build off of. And so what I also like about you, tora, is that you are, you are a Southern black woman, and that you are direct but always kind, right, like, just like, no, no, no, let's go back. Remember, you said you wanted this, you said you wanted that, and then here go your behaviors. Let's talk these things through, because there's a gap here. What's going on there? It's not making sense. No, it's sure, I'm just tired, I'm just this, I'm just uh-uh. You always going to be tired.
Speaker 1:I got this.
Speaker 2:Effie, we all got paid Like what is this? And you'll then say, and that's your work to do. I can work with you at the level of your willingness to do your work, because it's not your tour's work, it is our work to do, and so I just appreciate that. And, as another Black woman, you also have a really good sense of culture, and so you work with people from a host of cultures. There's one woman in one of the cohort programs, I think she's Indian and she used to crack me up.
Speaker 2:Trudy was like, why be nice when I can be sexy? And I was was like I was on a turnpike listening to that episode, listening to that retreat or whatever it was. I think it was a call and I was like, man, you're right, why be nice when you can be sexy? Why be nice when you can be smart? Like what the I'm so good? And I was like, why be those things when you can be a host of things but pick who you want to be? And so that's why I decided to clock in with you.
Speaker 2:The other part about that is I had just sent, I had just sunk almost $7,000 into a matchmaking service. I could match myself better, I could match myself better. But part of that is because they match. You know they, they, they. They match you on the three things that you want that you say you want your three core things, but they're not always about values. But you are your best instrument for the things right For, like what you want. You have a sense of what you desire. You can get those things, and so that's why I chose to go with you. I said you've already invested here. You got it to invest over there. Let let's just try it, the worst that can happen.
Speaker 1:Why did you even? Why were you even looking for a matchmaker? Why were you even looking for a coach? Like, where did you even? Where were you in your love life?
Speaker 2:What I desire marriage. So I am one of the girls who eventually would like to be married. But I want dating to not be so horrendous. It just should not have to be like this. I mean, every day shouldn't be make or break. There's so much like it's pee in a day and pull it's pee in a dating pool. You're not wrong, but this is a dating pool. This is where we are. You can't change stuff until you figure out what is.
Speaker 2:And I was so exhausted. I was exhausted even thinking about dating. The idea of talking to a man got on my nerves. I was not being kind. I had lost all sense of graciousness when it came to dating men. I was like I'm sick of this. I was, having been dating this guy, found out he was married, cut him off and I was just like what is like? There must've been some signs I might've missed. But like what is this? And I was like I need some better tools. I need better tools and I need some different frameworks. I need some different systems to help me figure out how to do this. And I need to call my friends in to say partnering used to be a communal activity.
Speaker 2:It is not always that anymore, but in the past the church mothers, the aunties, the uncles would think about this. We don't necessarily have those structures in the US anymore culturally, but there are ways to rebuild that, and so for me, a coach would be within one of those things. So my mother and grandmothers always had dating advice. My grandmothers got married in the 1940s. Okay, they're both going now. My mother was married twice and decided she didn't want to deal with men no more. After that. She was good, She'd just be minding her business. Love my mother, but I'm not going the I'm not dealing with men route. So I needed help and I was like you can either keep trying to figure this out on your own or you can get with somebody who can provide you support.
Speaker 2:So I've been working with my other coach and we weren't as consistent. I would get with her like once a month. I was bullshitting between sessions. You know I'm saying I wasn't really doing it. I was frustrated and complaining and and I was like no, what do you desire for your life? What gets you there? Am I married? No, is my love life popping? Yes, is it delicious? You daggone right? Am I going out tonight? Yup, I got work today.
Speaker 2:I see a doula client at five o'clock and six o'clock I'm going to this man and we're gonna have us a good, nice evening out and I'm going home and I would have been able to have that me five years ago, six years ago didn't have the skills to make that happen because they had to be four hours and a day was either the beginning girl, you see, okay, y'all can't see to her face, but it's like, girl, what four hours had to be long, right, if it wasn't like this. You know, half day retreat. He ain't really like you.
Speaker 2:Ridiculous expectations and unvoiced um desires and not being clear at all because I didn't want to offend anybody, I didn't want to. I don't know, I got. I feel empowered, um, I know how to coach myself out of some stuff now and I have some tools and frameworks to say that's not quite it. This is actually what I want. Let me see who's able and willing to come alongside me. That again, someone that I find attractive. Because I'm not saying go out and date people you don't like. I'm never, never going to tell you that Because why we don't do dry coochie behavior? We're not doing that, we're not.
Speaker 1:We're not. I know previously in this conversation that we were having. You mentioned that you had tons of limited beliefs. Oh girl, and that's one of the biggest obstacles that I have to deal with when having a new client come in. Yeah, that I have to deal with when having a new client come in, so yeah, yeah, what were some of those limited beliefs that you had that kept your love life dry, dry, coochie and goofy?
Speaker 2:looking. Okay, girl, so raggedy, um, so limiting beliefs I had is that I would never be partnered. I just would never be partnered because, um, um, fat like and I don't mean fat in a bad way, I mean as a descriptor of fat and so men limiting belief is that men would talk to you in the dark but not in the daylight. And I knew that was not true. I have been partnered, I've been big my whole life, I've been a thicky me, thick my whole, and there have always been men around. But just it had translated to marriage. That was it.
Speaker 2:Limiting belief was if it's not marriage, then I sort of failed in the romance life I now know again, plenty of folks are married and miserable. Let them, let me have a rich, loving life of romance, unlimited. Limiting belief is that because I lived in New Jersey and that the ratio of men that I attend today is not as prevalent here, I will never find somebody. Oh, but y'all. New York is right. New York is so far, philly's so far. It's all an hour away. What's an hour? It's not that far. So you have to learn how to unlimited or just be like. That's limiting belief. Let me just explore and see right, let me just explore and see.
Speaker 2:Limiting belief is that I was getting older and that meant that there weren't going to be opportunities for me to actually meet men that I would consider spending quality time with, because they were all married, uh, or the ones who were divorced was out here acting wild and just disgruntled. Um, and then there's a portion of men who don't date women, which, again, those were never men I was going to date, no way. Okay, shout out to my rainbow friends that those are not my men, those are my besties, right? And so I'm just like no limiting belief, uh, limiting belief that men would be unattracted to me because I have nice credentials and I'm really smart. And it's not that there are not biases around smart people and particularly smart women, but the idea that that all men cannot appreciate smarts is actually not useful. All men cannot appreciate smarts is actually not useful. It's actually not useful. And so there are limiting thoughts. Now I think about the myth thoughts that are not useful.
Speaker 2:A useless thought that I had was that I was not a homeowner and that meant that a man who had made it successfully financially wouldn't want me because I still rented. That is the goofiest shit I've ever heard in my life. But I believe that to my core. What I know is a man who really made it. Don't care what you got, that's not his business. What I know is a man who got it means that if you want it and you desire it, he will figure out how to make that work. If my friends do it, why would a man who loved me work to ensure that that's bananas to me, tora? But I really believe that sincerely.
Speaker 2:Another limiting belief was that girl has so many was that because my longest relationship was only two years, I didn't have the experience to really be in good relationship romantically. Bell Hooks was very clear in All About Love, which is one of my favorite books, that we learn how to love by loving other people, including. We start with our family. We start with our friends. I have friendships that have lasted 20 plus years. I have healthy relationships with my family. This is a different type of relationship, but the crux and the bones still remain and, if anything, your romantic partnerships are the ones that you get to choose. I don't get to choose my daggone siblings. I didn't get to go to the adoption network and pick them up. My parents just gave them to me and was like here you go, and so it's a different venue for trying that out.
Speaker 2:But I just had beliefs that were useful. And for the sisters, I know, know it is challenging, I know there are challenges, complaining about them all the time. It's not a useful. It's not a useful thing, right, like, yeah, it's frustrating, yes, it's annoying, I get it.
Speaker 2:There's a lot that I could say about the way we socialize people to not be responsible and ill-shaped men's thoughts on like leadership, but the idea that there's nobody out there is depressing and it is. It's not useful because your brain actually hears what you think. So you actually have to tell yourself there are men plural men plural, not man singular men plural. You, eventually, if you're monogamous, if you practice that, you get to singular man, but if you're poly, baby plural men men's if you want to be fun, sometimes even men can't see, they don't have the vision. Thank god that we have imaginations and can craft it out and invite them in and along.
Speaker 2:Right, because, yeah, another limiting belief Tori used to beat my ass on this y'all. Oh, my gosh, because I'm a Black feminist, I believe in equity and that meant that I had really interesting beliefs about who paid for what and how that worked out. I know, tori, don't fight me, but I was just like but what if you don't make enough? And what if, what like? But what if you don't make enough and what if, what if, what if? And one day on the phone tour said, joan, a man your age has had the same amount of time to learn, to pick up books, to find trades. Oh, joan, yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember, girl, it was this conversation. You was dating this guy, or well before we worked together yeah, yeah, yeah, you were my maintenance man your maintenance man and you were like, you were like um you said we might go on a date girl.
Speaker 2:We might, you was like for a while I'm like why?
Speaker 1:why would you want to go on a date?
Speaker 2:it's just you know, it's because you know, but he ain't really had. And she was like you are not a building supervisor, you do not have projects on the weekend, like no. And I just said she's not wrong because I know what I desire for myself.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on, hold on. You said something about him not being able to have a suit, oh girl. And so I said I'm like, how old is this man, girl, my age?
Speaker 2:You was like okay, this man is 40.
Speaker 1:I'm like how old is this man? Girl my age, you was like, okay, this man is 40. I'm like so how come he can't have a suit? How does he not know how to get a suit that's in alignment with what you want to have? I couldn't say nothing. Y'all you had all these excuses for why he can't have a suit. And I'm like Joan you have done so much. You are a vice president.
Speaker 2:I said Tor finna, fight me offside baby.
Speaker 1:She finna fly right to Jersey In higher ed and we have to settle for a man that does not know how to get him a suit.
Speaker 2:Girl, I was being boo-boo the fool, I'm telling you. You see, goofy, this was silliness.
Speaker 1:Tor, but listen, but thank God, right, I'm telling you, I just was, you see, goofy, this was silliness Tora.
Speaker 2:Okay, but listen, okay, but thank God right, we get to change our mind, we get to grow. Shout out to growth seasons we get to grow.
Speaker 1:And we get to yeah, go ahead. Speaking of growth, what are three accomplishments that you're really proud of in your dating life, that you were able to do once we got away from the goofy shit?
Speaker 2:Ooh child, Call me Disney World baby. Okay, Accomplishments I'm really proud of in my dating life.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me, let me okay. No, I'm going to go this way. I live in abundance, not excess. Let me just pick three.
Speaker 2:One accomplishment that I'm really proud of is being able to clearly state what I desire and hold like be 10 me right would be so invested in what this person was going to say back If they were going to say I was asking for too much, if I was being too much again. I'm in a big body. I have a big personality big laughter, big brain, big boobies, everything. Big laughter, big brain, big boobies, everything, big hips. The idea that I'm getting shrunk right and I'm shrinking myself Ain't no shrinking out here. We not caught in t-shirts and so being able to say I'm going to offer them honesty and see what they? You know they can say what they want to say. I'm not invested in it. I'll be glad if they go this way. If they don't go that way, that's their business. They get to do that. I can be disappointed, I can be sad, I can be a lot of things, but I'm still going to keep on chugging it right along, right, like that's a winter. I did not always have that, um.
Speaker 2:Another thing that I find as accomplishments is I can rotationally date. Now, woo girl, that used to be what is it, I don't know, I love it. I mean, that is not something I could do before because I was just like, oh, it's just this one person. Then you put all the eggs in the basket, you put in the cheese, the bacon, everything. There's so much dependent on this one singular person that you have no agreements with zero commitment from just vibes. And then you're like, well, if this doesn't work, then what? Oh, no, no, no, no, ma'am, no, sir, no, there ain't no way.
Speaker 2:So now it's like I'm dating here, I'm dating there. I'm not hiding it, I'm very clear, you know, and until I'm in an exclusive monogamous relationship, I am dating. Right, there are pathways to exclusivity. I'm not, I'm not there with anybody yet, and that is major for me. My therapist was on me for three years about this Three years, and so when I told her like oh, girl, this is what I'm doing, she was like, finally, oh, my, finally, what happened? I was like I just didn't know how. I didn't know how, I didn't know how to do it without hurting I mean air quotes hurting men's feelings.
Speaker 2:I thought it took up too much time because you was over-investing. You was over-investing. Why are you doing all that investment? You got other stuff to invest in, not that? Yes, not that. Okay, those two.
Speaker 2:And then the last one is I mean, honestly, I have my voice in dating as an academic, I have a voice as a practitioner. I have a voice as a sister. I have a voice as a friend. I have a voice as a roundabout Christian who carries on. I have a voice.
Speaker 2:When it came to romance, my voice was so quiet, it was so quiet. It was so quiet, it was unsure, it was unsteady, it was almost desperate. It was just trying to hang out. It couldn't really hold its own, it wasn't confident. And now I, I am empowered in a way that I wish I had earlier in life.
Speaker 2:Um, because it's not cockiness, it is just confidence, it is assuredness, and I mean some of that comes with time and wisdom, right, but also having the skills and having clarity on like that's actually not going to be what you want in the longterm.
Speaker 2:It can go for a while, but at some point you're going to need to make some choices and have some uncomfortable but necessary and kind conversations because they're clarified, and so I can do that now. And one of the reasons which is jogging something else one of the reasons why I really wanted to work with you was because I felt empowered after sitting through workshops and that was not the way I had felt with other people's work and not my old coach, but just other folks that I had seen. It was very much like just shrink, just be quiet, just let somebody else have full autonomy over your life, just accept it and I'm like what the heck this is bananas. But after going through the bomb ass experiences and the conversations that invite what you call, I was like I can actually do something with this, and not just in my romantic life. I'm drawing boundaries.
Speaker 2:I'm holding myself accountable in other places. It's just good. So those are my three things, three accomplishments. There are plenty more that I can tell men what I want and be like. No, I'm actually not available for that. I know like if I were you, I would want to talk to me at 10 o'clock too. I love my sleep and I'm a much better rested person. Let's talk to me tomorrow. How about that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Sounds great, no problem, Easy redirect. That's respectful, kind, and if there's an invitation, I have it. If I don't send an invitation, there was none given, and it's not me being mean. It's me being clear. I'm not responsible for other people's feelings. I am responsible for treating people with kindness and care. I am responsible for that.
Speaker 1:So you came in expecting certain things and getting certain things, but what I love about coaching is they're always the unexpected. There's always things that come with the transformation that we're like okay, I didn't know this was going to be a part of it, and so I'd love to know, like, what surprised you the most about this whole experience and your transformation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying to slow my brain down. One of the things that I am surprised by genuinely, even though I'm an educator, that there's so much of what I learned in working with you that applies in so many of the parts of my life. Because if you're empowered in one place, you usually start to understand how that looks in other places. And this was the least empowered, least embodied experience of all the different parts of my world. This was that one, but I was able to translate pieces over into work. I mean, I used to write really long emails to try to explain and have soft spots and could you please, and maybe not, and girl, uh-uh.
Speaker 1:Delete the damn email. It's too long.
Speaker 2:Hey, let's hop on the call. Hey, here's what we need Peace and blessings. This again, just simple stuff, right? There's no need to do all that extra stuff. If you want to, fine, but doing it just because I think I have to, absolutely not. No, no, I am surprised by my nosy ass friends, man, they always want to know what I'm doing with Tora. What'd you learn from Tora today?
Speaker 1:What'd you?
Speaker 2:learn from Tora. Today. I'm like y'all. I only see her like once every other week. When I get my life together, guys leave me alone. But the way that my friends, some of my home girls in particular, and some of my homeboys are just like the stuff that you're learning is so good, like we're by osmosis, like we're team Torah, and so you have a whole fan club out there, like it's great. They're like well, what is Torah? I'm like today. This is what y'all need. Y'all need to get your boundaries together. Okay, cause you, the son of your solar system, being able to say you know, I hear you talking to that man and I know what you're trying to do Sister to sister, and I know what you're trying to do sister to sister. Can I offer you a different way? Can I offer you another pathway? Here's what's been working for me. Here's what's been working for me. What's that? Who's saying?
Speaker 2:that I'm saying this to my friends or they'll say you just seem to be having a really great time dating and I'm like, yeah, they're like you must go on dates every day. No, the way way this schedule set up, I'm not on dates every day but my life is still luscious, like I don't. If I go on a date or not. If somebody takes me out or I'm going out, it's going to be pleasurable, planned and purposeful. Them three Ps. I'd have set some homegirls up straight on that one I said girl, where are you going to go with him? That's not planned, purposeful and pleasurable. Them the three Ps, them the basics. I said the underlying current of all that is paid, because what you're not doing is going up in your pocket. I don't bless some folks with that Torah, but just the way to think about. How are you inviting people into your life? What is the invitation? Right, write the vision, do that. And then how do you invite people into that and see who wants to go alongside you? If they don't, that's okay and guess what, you can be sad about it.
Speaker 2:I was surprised by how open I let myself be. I'm pretty open. I do helping skills with people, but for myself it's actually it's not scary. I have really big feelings, really big emotions, and sometimes my family will pick on me because I have really big feelings. So I learned how to like keep them to myself sometimes, but I have a really big again.
Speaker 2:I understood you can only experience as much joy as you let yourself feel sadness, and so to have a fuller range, you have to experience all of them. You just want to be responsible with them and careful with them, and so in this experience, being able to be open and honest about I actually do desire a husband, my person, and that's OK. Like you don't have to want to be Pauly Jones, that's not for you. I'm not Shannon, it's not for me, I can't. And you get to grieve the things that have not come to pass. You get to grieve and forgive yourself about the ways you used to show up with yourself and with other people, and particularly men, and it is okay to name men explicitly. And it is also okay to say, now that you know better, you can do different. And you get to love your past self who you now know should have never been in that relationship. So much healing, you know. But again, that would be me doing my stuff, because I actually had to sit with myself and say how did? How did you get into some of these situations? I understand why you were with them at that time you should not have ever been with them but this is what was at play Lots of healing that came along the way, but being able to provide decent advice to my friends, being able to get some much additional healing and strategy and actually having somebody I respected in the process, because you were thugging your shit out in real time.
Speaker 2:In real time and that's not always the case, right, or you would share. Like you know, this has been happening. I got to make some choices Kind of sad about this thing coming to an end, but also like there's new opportunity, and you didn't hide that. You was just like here's where we are, and I appreciate that because it modeled how we actually need to show up authentically, and so when we talk about the openness of our communication, it applies everywhere, everywhere, and it just reaffirmed for me why we don't live in isolation or in silos. We're one cohesive person, and so the more we can live in alignment across ourselves, the better it gets.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's actually surprises. Yeah, that's like one of the biggest things that I want women to know. When you do this work, when you develop dating skills, it's a life skill. It's going to impact all areas of your life, and so if you're already a badass in your career, it's going to have you excel even more, even when it came to like your friend group.
Speaker 1:So I remember you having a party that you were planning and you were like I mean, you can tell the story about that, about you being stressed out about the planning and we had my friends?
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, I was. I was having my 41st birthday party and I did way too much for 40. It was like I'm just going to have a little something for 41. Cause I got my new place and there's room and I want to be able to host all my friends and I was so stressed out I was about to cancel and Tor was like we're going to have to revisit this because this is why are you doing all this work? This is bananas and my friend sat me down a little, grew with him and was like you are way too stressed out for a birthday.
Speaker 1:What do you?
Speaker 2:need us to do, because this is ridiculous. What is this? If you want to have a party, that is fine. What do you need from us so you can enjoy yourself, lest you be stressed out and gone about it? And I was like, ok, y'all just going to beat my ass like that, but that's love and it wasn't mean. It was just like we love you. We see what you're trying to do. Can you please let us help you? You help us every day. You are a phenomenal friend. How can we support you when people love on you like that? It is so endearing, it is so sweet, it is so kind and it is an invitation for us to let people love us and it helps us to get ready and prepare for the love that we say we desire. I want someone who sees my needs and meets them. People see your needs and meet them and you sit here talking about you going to do it yourself. I almost beat myself up. I didn't know and I said that's fine, so here's what I'll do. I like to host. Let me do this. I will let y'all take care of the rest of that.
Speaker 2:They came and helped set everything up. They made sure that stuff was cleaned up when they left, because they know I hate I love a clean house, I can't stand cleaning up. They cleaned the house, got everything in order. They ran communication on the back end so I didn't have to worry about stuff they up. They helped me set up my charcuterie boards. Somebody went and ran and got the food so I wouldn't have to leave All the logistical pieces, they just took care of.
Speaker 2:And then we had a good ass time, a good time and, of course, everybody. Because I was like people don't need to bring gifts, they don't need to do that. Everybody stepped in that house with gifts upon gifts, acts of service. I had just moved. I had friends who came and unpacked my entire home, organized my entire home. I mean three weekends worth of work, three weekends worth of work to get my house in order, didn't complain, brought their own spirits. I have a whole bar. They didn't care. That's what love looks like. And so no, I'm going to say it, your caliber of friends for me sets the bar for what you expect of what you can cultivate with other people.
Speaker 1:Especially men.
Speaker 2:And that's why I don't let men play in my face with the can't we just be friends? My literal response is you don't understand the level of care and responsibility my friends have for me, because you would not be so light about friendship. I don't know what kind of friend and I have to pull it back if I get tight about it because my friends love me, as Tara would say, in tangible ways.
Speaker 2:In ways that I feel. I know I'm loved. I know I'm getting ready to have surgery. They already have a care plan worked out. My mama is in Atlanta, my daddy is in Florida. My friends have already planned.
Speaker 1:Speaking of your friends and how they've showed up for you, you and I talked about how we have utilized them to help you meet men. Can you share your strategy? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So Tora knows, I have a whole photo album called alignment, with that little razzle, dazzle star emoji and a ring, and so that photo girl, so chaotic, I love it. I live for theater, so in that photo album are images that my friend they're images of me that my friends can show men, and what I said to them in love was I appreciate y'all's concern for the caliber of man who will be dating me. I love that y'all love me like that and that is a limiting belief that is not actually going to help me be with some man or have really good experiences. Me be with some man or have really good experiences. And when y'all say that, it means one. It invites me to say well, who are y'all kicking it with? That? Y'all don't have no inequality in y'all circles, one but two. That's too much pressure. I'm saying let's go have a good time. Let's go to the cigar bar, let's go to Topgolf. Let's go to the Brooklyn Arts Festival so we can roam the streets of Brooklyn buying art and cash, whatever that is. Let's go to the exhibit at. Let's go to the jazz concert at the Metropolitan, whatever.
Speaker 2:Y'all use these pictures. Here's a simple script because y'all over here acting wild hey, I know this amazing woman. Here's a couple pictures of her. Is this someone? I think you two could have a really good conversation? That is it. I think you two would enjoy each other's conversation over tea or whatever. But it's that simple. Because friends want the world for you, friends who love you want the world for you and they sometimes do too much and you have to pull them in. I think you and her would have a really good conversation.
Speaker 2:Done Now. Has that translated? No, into a date? No, but it's on their radar. You got to re-socialize your people.
Speaker 2:When I go home to Atlanta, I tell my friends I'll be home from these days to these days. If there are men in your lives who you think I would have a good conversation with, I invite you all to coordinate us for dinner. Host a dinner at your home and invite them with the explicit purposes that I will be there. So I'm trying to coach my friends and to say here's how you can actually support me. You say you want me to be partnered. You want me to have a good dating life.
Speaker 2:Here's what that looks like from you. You're the married host the game night. Married, partnered people host the game night, host the dinner. Bring the people together. You're not responsible. Other thing you have to tell them is you're not responsible for what two grown people do once we're together. You're not responsible for that. So if me and Bobby fall out, that's not your business. Y'all did your job. Me and Bobby just chose not to move forward, and that's okay. So you inviting your friends in with some structure can be useful. I only invite people to do that who you know love. You Don't play in your own face.
Speaker 1:OK, and if you could go back to the version of you before this experience, before the coaching, what would you tell that version of you?
Speaker 2:of coaching. What would you tell that version of you? I would say, Joni, you are such a delightful person and you need to advocate for yourself. You do a wonderful job advocating for other people. You know you're lovable. You know you are loved. Extend that to your romantic world. What do you actually desire? And know that all these things that you're telling yourself about, you know, be it your body or you're older, or you got too much education or whatever, whatever you in the wrong part of the country. It's not that those things might not have some. You know some, some there. There have some, you know some, some there there.
Speaker 2:However, there's always opportunity, Joni, for you to cultivate the life that you want in romance. Yes, you can. You're going to cry. You're going to have to put on some good lace panties, Like you're going to have to put on your big girl drawers that's what I'm trying to say but make them comfortable. And you're going to have to do your work and be responsible for that.
Speaker 2:So, saying that there's just not enough men in the area not really going to work, how can you get creative? You can get creative in your scholarship. You can get creative in your work. You can get creative for yourself. Yes, you can, and you can enlist other people to do the work alongside you who also love you, who want to see that.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that you are bad. It just means that you need some more tools and some more encouragement, because this is not done in isolation. It's too tough, but we're people. We're not supposed to live in isolation. There used to be a torture method in the 15 and 1600s, but to make you live in isolation we're meant to be a torture method in the 15 and 1600s, but to make you live in isolation we're meant to be in community.
Speaker 2:So how can you invite your community in in ways that are useful, to show you love, even if it's saying, hey, I could really use some time. Can we go on a friend date so I can remember what it's like to be out with somebody? Can we? Can you, um, uh, tell me things that you like about me, Because I'm having a really hard time. I can only come up with 10 things, and it would be really helpful if I could hear back from somebody else what's delightful about me or what's intriguing about me, or what you find fascinating about me, so that I can get curious and then I can talk about myself in those ways too. It's vulnerable, but it's so worth it and you can do it. You've done it in other parts. Do it for yourself now. Do it for yourself now.
Speaker 1:And what would you say to a woman who is listening to this and she's on the fence? She's on the fence about should I do this? Should I invest in, in coaching?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, on principle, yes, absolutely yes. If you're wondering, yes, absolutely yes. If you're saying I don't have the money, I'm going to offer you to invite the people who love you to invest in yourself. So, for that next birthday, or just that next gift, that next offering that someone wants to give you, I'm really trying to, you know, grow my skills in this. This will really grow me as a person to get to where I want to be. This is what I want to do. Here's the investment. Can you contribute to that? In what ways can you contribute to that? That also invites your community in, because then they're going to want to know, well, what you doing with this money we done gave you. I'm doing this over here and then again, I team the most I am and I make no apologies for it. Then you can get them little quick monthly updates on what you learned in their culture, what have been your wins, in the way that Tor does her like dating diary. I'm not saying tell them all your business, but invite people in to help you financially. Do that. There are ways to do it. But on principle, absolutely yes. I got a PhD. I've said that three times. I'm saying it because this is not about book smarts. I've said that three times. I'm saying it because this is not about book smarts. This is about people smarts. It's about you smarts. And so, if you can understand what you require for yourself, what is my responsibility to do, and then what I desire and that desire includes somebody else, somebody's son yeah, yeah, you need some support. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:If you've been trying to do it and it's not working on your own, you go get help. I need help learning how to grow muscle. I go get a trainer. I need help working through anxiety. I go get a therapist. I wanted help Understand that. I went and picked up my theology books. I wanted help with this. I found Torah. I don't know if I found Torah or if Torah's work found me. I'm grateful for it either way, but invest in what works for you and there's no shame in this. There's no shame in this. Have some people laughed? Yes, do I give a fuck? No, because I got what I needed. Let them laugh. And then let me go have this wonderfully pleasurable ass romantic life where I can ask for what I want and somebody's son gonna say, yeah, let them. Who cares?
Speaker 1:Joan, thank you so much for taking out time in your schedule to come chat with us, tell us your story. You have a really good story. And it's just been amazing working with you.
Speaker 2:You're the best. Tora, you're the best for real girl. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Proud of you, proud of your work, and, yeah, I'm looking forward to what's next for you, what's next for you, and then.
Speaker 2:Oh, what's next, Tora? I mean, right now the world is on fire. So what's next for me is, you know, let me see what's next with me. Let me take it this way what's next for me in my everyday life is sticking to my basics so I can stay grounded in the midst of utter chaos and turmoil. Right Eating, sleeping, being with friends, going on these nice ass days enjoying good masculine energy that lets me cuddle up next to it. That's what I'm doing. That's what's next for me. And then what's next for me worldwide, who knows? Stay open to whatever. What's next at some point is a nice little exclusive relationship. And then I can't even hype me at a last name girl the way, trying to change these laws. I need to be able to vote, so I'm going to have to keep that last name grow the way trying to change these laws.
Speaker 2:I need to be able to vote. Oh my God. Ok, I have to keep that last name the same, but that's what's next for me is continue to grow, grow my imagination so that my desire and ask can get larger. That's what that's going to be. I said ask, but it sounded like ass. I'm OK with both of them my ass and my booty getting bigger? Ask, but it sounded like ass. I'm okay with both of them. My ass and my booty getting bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm okay with both of them.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited for you. Thank you, Joan. It's been a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been so wonderful being here. It's brought up a lot of good like oh yeah, new connection points. That's fun, yeah, All right, love.
Speaker 1:All right, queen, that was our episode.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1:I really, really hope, throughout our really fun conversation together and some of our off-topic tangents, that you were able to pull out some gems that you can apply to your life today, and then also for you to have the inspiration to invest in yourself this year 2025, if you have been struggling in your dating life for any reason at all, or if you've been getting results by looking at my content, listening to this podcast, and you really want to make a quantum leap and build a skillset that you can literally leave to an inheritance, as an inheritance to your future generations, book a sales call. Book a sales call with me, and you can find the sales call link in the show notes, or you can go to my Instagram and click. Click the link there and we can have a pressure-free conversation about what's happening in your love life and if working together makes sense. I will give you a step-by-step plan of what it would look like to work together. So yeah, girl, thank you, continue to keep my family in your prayers and I'll be back next week. Bye.