Date with Cents
Date with Cents
The Ugly, Messy, Beautiful Work of How I Rebuilt My Life after Divorce with my Coach, Catherine Navarro
When I left my marriage years ago, I didn't know what my life would look like.
I didn't trust myself, I was confused on how to take up space with my new status, and couldn't see the powerful woman I would become.
In this special birthday episode, I invite you into a vulnerable conversation with my friend and life coach, Catherine Navarro, who has supported my transformation behind the scenes.
For those who compliment my powerful presence, strong boundaries, and clear communication today—this woman helped me build those qualities through years of deep personal work, tears, and brave choices.
Catherine shares what real transformation looks like, from learning self-regulation and emotional presence to rebuilding self-trust and taking responsibility for my life when everything was falling apart.
We discuss how personal growth isn't found in books or courses, but in practice—one brave moment at a time.
If you're ready to become the kind of woman who trusts herself deeply and shows up powerfully in her dating life, book a sales call to learn more about private 1:1 coaching with me.
Book a sales call HERE to speak with me.
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@torahcents
@curved2cuffed
What's up, lover girl? Welcome back to the Date With Sense podcast. First off, before we get into today's episode, I just want to thank each and every one of you who reached out to me via DM, on Instagram or posted in your stories and tag me in terms of my latest episode, like your feedback. Thank you for all of your love and your support and what you took away from the episode. It means a lot that I get to share vulnerable pieces of myself here and it is able to land and help shift and lead to more transformation, not just with myself, but through all of you as well. So, thank you, thank you for that. Second of all, this episode is also going to be extremely vulnerable. I would say like this is my. This is the episode that I wanted to do in celebration of my birthday. So my birthday. If you're listening to this episode, my birthday is May 26th, so you're probably listening to it a few days before. Shout out to Geminis my birthday is May 26th and I was thinking.
Speaker 1:I was like I want to have a celebration episode where I reflect on the last few years of my life because they have been so transformative. It has felt that I, they have felt like I've been through the fire and I rose from the ashes. I know a lot of my audience, especially my clients, like sometimes they treat me like I'm superhuman, as if I just be. I am this woman, and not that. I became this woman and I have the power that I have today. I have the stature that I have today. I have the clarity that I have today, the conviction, the freedom that I have today because of all the work that I put in years ago, that I have today because of all the work that I put in years ago, and it's easy for people to look at who I am now and just think oh, you know, that's, that's Torah. You know I'm not you, torah. I can't, I can't be like you, and the thing is I wasn't like me and so I'm like you.
Speaker 1:Know what I would like to do? A reflection episode where I sit down with the woman who helped me go through this transformation, that helped me with my turning point. From when I left my marriage until now, there was a lot that happened and it really forged the woman that I am now. So I'm really excited about this episode where I talk about the tears, the work, the messiness, the beauty all in between, and I hope from this episode that you absolutely just see my humanity, see how bad I want to continue to become the woman that I always wanted to be, that I will continue to be, and how I am dedicated to my practice on this earth. I am dedicated to this work, I'm dedicated to my growth, I'm dedicated to my development, I'm devoted to it and I'll never stop, because I will never stop wanting to enhance who I am as a person, no matter how hard it is. And, yeah, I just want to give you a glimpse behind the scenes of what I've been doing and what I'll keep doing.
Speaker 1:So, without further ado, here is the episode. Oh, so we were legit in like mid-conversation, talking and catching up, and I was like, girl, we need to, we need to get this recorded because we're having this conversation that we're having. So, basically, I have my, my friend and coach, catherine, on here and we literally just jumped on here for the podcast and she was like I just listened to your last episode I got. So I'm like, cause she knows me, there was like this hinge of, like this tinge of like oh, my gosh, she sees me, she's watching and listening to it. So yeah, yeah, catherine. So what were your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2:Well, I wanted to let you know that I prepared for our conversation today by listening and I have some I don't know what we've done at some points along the way, Like I have some tidbits of your relationship journey and I was like, wow, I am so proud of you. Like you let the world know the behind the scenes of this decision and it's such a big decision. And I know it gets embarrassing when people we know listen to our podcast. So I get that like loud and clear. But I really wanted you to know that my opinion is that you're really showing women how to do this differently and it takes a lot of courage. It's like one level of courage is to actually do the thing behind the scenes. The other level of courage is to share it. So proud of you.
Speaker 1:I just felt that right here. Oh, that felt so good, and I think that's a great segue into our episode, because today's episode is really special to me and by the time you guys hear this, it will be right before my birthday. I really want this to be a birthday episode, like a celebration of my life, and the past few years specifically, and so we're not teaching anything today. I just want to invite you into, like a real vulnerable conversation with someone who has been behind the scenes of my transformation over the past few years my friend and life coach, catherine. So many people look at me now and I get so many compliments about like, oh, like, how powerful I am or how well I communicate, or how strong my boundaries are, or how convicted I am, and I was not in this place years ago.
Speaker 1:I remember when it was time to leave my marriage and I didn't know what my life was going to look like. I didn't know how to trust myself. I didn't know how to take up space in a certain way, I didn't know how to be responsible for things. I didn't know how to be the kind of woman that I know I wanted to be, and I knew that if I wanted to be that woman. I couldn't do that alone, and so Catherine, she's sitting here with me today. She has been my friend, my coach, my mirror, my support in moments that most people will never, ever see, and so this is a conversation between her and I and what it really looks like, or looked like, for me to become this woman. So welcome, catherine. Tell the people who you are.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Catherine Navarro, and there are so many iterations of bio that can be, at any point in time, spit out. Today I'm just going to say that I am definitely a coach for high achieving women and I would say, more often than not, I help people achieve a certain level of power and freedom that was never thought possible. And what I mean by that is a lot of us who are high achieving. We can achieve a lot of things and things can look really good on paper. So you could have a great business, you could have a great marriage and it looks great. And you walk into the room and people are like wow, look at that.
Speaker 2:Or you have children and your children are like mommy, mommy, mommy, and everybody's like she's an amazing mom. And you have all these friends and you guys get together and you, you know kiki on the latest and greatest trends. Or you go shopping and you can drop money and then there's somewhere inside of you that something feels off. And I know you know the first thing that some women that potentially are not high achieving they're like stop it. You have money, wealth, health, like there's nothing wrong. Can you imagine how scary it is for someone that has all of those things to feel that there's a void and not know how to fix it, and the fear that comes with blowing up your life in order to get it.
Speaker 1:That's a speaking of blowing up. That's exactly that's exactly how I felt when it was time for me to leave my marriage, and I want to get to that. But before we get to that, I I talk about how I even met you in general, because you, helping to change my life, started years before I even got to that place. For Melissa Farr that's her name she was a business coach and I signed up for her conference in New York. It was in the city, manhattan. It was back in. Was that 2019? I think it was 2019.
Speaker 2:September 2019.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, you remember. So I was there at this conference and then I was really enjoying myself at the conference and then there was, I was meeting different people and then one of the people that I met, she was like hey, you got to meet such and such, you got to meet Catherine. And I was like why do I got to meet Catherine? She was like yeah, catherine's amazing, she's blah, blah, blah blah. And I'm like, okay, I'm always down to meet amazing people.
Speaker 1:And I think when I first connected with you first of all, your presence was just so grounding and I was like, okay, like this woman takes up a certain kind of space that you don't necessarily actually see or experience, and it's not something that you can usually describe into words. It's like a feeling, and I don't know how we ended up doing it, but we ended up scheduling lunch or deciding to go to lunch together, you, me and someone else and the level of conversation that you dropped at the table was so mind blowing to me at the time. I was like who the hell is this woman? And I could just see my life shifting just because of what you spoke out of your mouth. I can't even remember what you said. I just know how I felt and I was like, okay, I need to live life a little bit differently or think about life differently.
Speaker 1:It was so impactful that I was like, all right, I need to send her money, I need to send her some cash. Let me cash out this woman. I feel like we need to pass the offering pan. This conversation was so valuable. She has to leave with money. Do you remember that conversation that we had like our first meeting?
Speaker 2:I think the first few things that we spoke about were definitely like relationship was about desire for sure. Like how do we speak? Our desire? And I remember you feeling really confident in that area and you were like, oh well, how would you say this or something like that. And I remember us talking and you were like, oh okay, this is a new level of communicating. Oh, you're talking like hang on.
Speaker 2:And so I actually don't remember who the other woman was, but I remember we were with out to lunch with a third person and it was like after an exercise at the Melissa Farr where everybody was sort of mingling and getting to know each other and there was going to be a lunch break after that and that's how we decided on lunch. It was just the next thing up on the docket. And you know, this is one of those things in life where our faiths aren't the same, right, or maybe they are, I don't know but or maybe somebody listening is like my faith is a particular way. So just putting this caveat out there, this is just how I see things. Sometimes you don't even know what God has planned for you, right?
Speaker 2:And I think we had some religious conversation back and forth a little bit and then you cash out me and I remember feeling like, uh, both thankful and grateful, like oh, wow, this is so beautiful, like what a recognition and it was the first time anybody had ever done that as well.
Speaker 2:It's not something that I see often or that happens often in my life and my world, and it really had us, had me, appreciate our conversation more, because at this point in my personal growth journey, like those conversations happen all the time, like you mentioned today, and you opened oh, we were already in conversation and it's like, yes, right, it's almost as if I could literally walk around with a GoPro all day long and just record the things you know, other people and I speak about.
Speaker 2:It feels that potent walking through the world. But meeting you was great, but you were so fun. I remember talking to you and you just being so fun and you were talking to me about your life and all the happenings and where you lived and you were going to go back and for some reason or another, we exchanged information and I think then we started to keep in touch and then one day you asked if I would be willing to be part of like a group of some kind. I think we did that first, or maybe it was after a few things occurred. I think I helped.
Speaker 1:I invited you to my group that's when I started C2C, Curved to Color, yes, and I invited you to speak to my ladies. I was like, okay, I think this is deeper work that can be introduced to my ladies that I am not equipped to provide. And I felt like you were. And I think it's very interesting how you mentioned that we were talking about desire. And then I I was like, oh yeah, like I got it, Like I was so confident in that and like the ego is so wild, Like the ego will have you thinking that you have everything figured out, Even though I was.
Speaker 1:Now that I look back, I was a mess. I was a mess and I was just thinking I had my chest all out, Like no girl. I got it, Like I understand, I know how to do that. And then, with that one little conversation, like it humbled me to the point where I was like, yeah, I do need to cash out for $50 because I was, my ego was humbled and now I have new perspective which opened the door for me to be like, okay, what else am I missing here?
Speaker 1:And, like you mentioned earlier about high achieving women, we have so much going on for ourselves that it's really hard to look at certain pieces because there is so much good that is going on at the time. And so inviting you back to my container, that was another thing. It was like, oh, they need her, my girls need her, right. Not necessarily I need Catherine. It's like let let them speak to her. And so when you came in and like I think there was so many like tears on that first call and you ended up working with a few of those ladies like right after that, yes, one in particular Alyssa.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know she officially got married. We went to her wedding together. So me meeting you and you being able to help my clients go through relationships their, their exclusive relationships and and move forward Like that's been a beautiful partnership between us. But there was still, like this level of separation of, yeah, they need Catherine and I don't. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love how you giggle. Um, you know you probably didn't need me at that time, right Like everything was still plugging along and moving. Well, I do remember that wonderful opportunity and I do love to guest speak so and guest teach. So if there's anybody out there that wants me to come into their group, by all means please reach out. I remember going into your room and, um, there were so many tears and everybody was so shocked, like what. I didn't know I had tears, why am I crying? And I remember introducing for the first time to these women the concept of like how soft and open you become when you're regulated. Normally, high achieving women don't have ups and downs of emotion and they assume that it's regulation versus being shut off, shut down or guarded.
Speaker 1:Say more.
Speaker 2:I know that you know nervous system regulation is all the rage. Right Like get regulated, feel safe in your body. It's true for the good stuff, but you can definitely get far in life without it. You can have the high paying job, you can have the high functioning relationship and still lose your bananas in an argument and still feel like you want to murder your boss and your employees. Right Emotional regulation is that is, that your nervous system is regulated and that you don't get dysregulated at a drop of a dime. And yeah, I'll say I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1:So let me I want to ask you a question then, because you was like I don't think that you needed me, I was doing that. I was getting dysregulated at a drop of a dime, especially when it came to, like my husband, like I think, as you got to know me, like you know, I was getting dysregulated at a drop of a dime, especially when it came to, like my husband, like, I think, as you got to know me, like you know, I was flipping the hell out.
Speaker 2:Yes, but we were also friends, right, and for anybody that's listening, that's a coach, like we don't coach our friends just because we know we don't just walk around give advice and preaching to people. I think you know I'm a coach second. If I'm your friend, I'm going to be your friend first and as a friend, I can offer you something that as a coach I cannot, which is just space, like for you to be who you are, and I have the opportunity to love you as you are, without having to change you before you're ready to change.
Speaker 1:And that's true, but that also speaks to how much I actually needed you, but didn't think I did at the time Like I felt like you were for others, and it wasn't until my marriage. It was like I went to jail, I don't know. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2:moment when I went. I remember because I think that was the first time that I crossed the boundary and I was like, hang on a second. I have to say something. That was the straw.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you were saying these things that you wanted to do and I was like I disagree, like you don't have to blow up your life in this way, you don't have to be, you don't have to do these things that you're setting up to do in order to achieve the thing that you want to achieve. This way of traversing this corner feels so chaotic and so scary and like unnecessary. It felt like you were about to jump off a cliff.
Speaker 1:Did I? Did I say I was going to blow up my business? Like what did I say I was going to do?
Speaker 2:I mean, okay, so full transparency. I think you were like something about you wanted to change something in your business, you wanted to say something to your clients.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, like, hang on, let's get you regulated first, let's get you grounded. Oh, I can't believe that Before you just go off.
Speaker 1:Off the rail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like telling people your business as you're going through it takes a particular level of regulation and I was like I don't think we need to be worrying about other people right now, like that is not where the attention should be. I think that you know first off, oh my God, what just happened to you, how you giggle. I was like holy crap, let's just take a breath and like love you here. You've been through a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been in jail for days yes, that was a lot Didn't have no clothes. I literally went to CVS to buy my outfit that I was going to wear for the next few days and literally had to order clothes over weeks to have them. So it was like this new beginning and at the time I didn't like you were. You felt very calm in terms of but now that I know, like you were probably like furious and I knew then that my marriage was done. Like I knew of like if I'm going to jail, we're done. Like I knew of like if I'm going to jail, it, we're done. And so I, when I first reached out to you, like when I, when I decided I was going to be done the the first thing that crossed my mind as far as helping support is Catherine Like I didn't even think twice. It was like I knew that was like destiny. I was like Catherine and I reached out to you and I was like, I was terrified. I was like cause, we were friends. We were friends for a couple of years.
Speaker 2:For sure we were friends. I think you had also seen me traverse probably tons of things. I think that you probably had a lot more experience with me. I want to say I think you had seen me traverse different things, probably by that point as you had an inside view to my life because we were friends. And I still remember there was so much chaos happening in your life and I knew it would take a high level of work and I wasn't sure if you were committed to that level of work and I was like how about we just try? Do you remember that? I was like how about we just try a few months and see what happens?
Speaker 1:You did, you said I think it was. What Was it? A three month container, three months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like because normally I work with people for a really long time and I said how about we just do three months, let's just get you out of emergency? Like, let's get your nervous system out of that place. First let's do a little bit of like ER triage and let's get you regulated, and then we can reassess.
Speaker 1:So tell me, I'm actually very curious about your biggest concern with me coming to you for that kind of help.
Speaker 2:Probably the biggest concern was we were friends and I didn't, and I knew how much we meant to each other right, like you're talking to your listeners, how much you know I mean to you, but you meant a lot to me too. We were friends for many years. I had gotten into your containers to teach more than once. I had helped hold you and your team to teach more than once. I had helped hold you and your team. We had clients in common and it doesn't always work and this also wasn't my area of expertise.
Speaker 2:I have other friends, colleagues that coach their friends really well, and this wasn't something that I was very well-versed, so it was sort of like okay, let's try. Now I have a lot more confidence in that arena, but prior to that I just hadn't tested the waters and I didn't want to. I wanted okay. So the other thing that I'm just hearing it in my own mind is when you have friendships, when you really love someone, it takes a high level of regulation to hear what's happening in their life, to not get overly invested in the outcome.
Speaker 2:Right Like I needed to make sure that I wasn't codependent in any way, that there was no place in our work together that what was happening in your life would then dictate how I felt about myself or my work about myself or my work, because I wanted to, first and foremost, show up for you powerfully and hold space and let you know that you can do this. And I can't do that if I'm emotionally not sober, if I'm emotionally drunk anywhere, needing you to either leave your marriage or needing you to stay in your marriage, needing your business to look one way or needing your business to look another way. Like as a coach and a holder, I need to be okay with whatever's happening in your life as a friend. That's not really my job as a friend I could be like you know what, let's just burn this.
Speaker 2:You know, as a friend, you get to be biased. As a friend, you get to tell someone I'm really hurting for you as a coach. That's not part of the container, because the goal is for you to get to become the highest version of you without my input.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that. I don't think I've ever asked that of you before, so I was nervous when I was. So we decided we were going to work together for three months and I think my initial ask was I just need you to help me survive leaving my marriage, because I didn't know who I was going to be After I left. I had been married for years and that marriage kind of did a number on my self-trust, like I didn't trust myself and I had like a warp sense of my capability and I didn't. Basically, I just didn't know who I was going to be afterward and I just I wanted to become a powerful woman in the midst of all of that. I needed you to help me through that, and I think what came with that, what I learned, was I was looking for more power, so to say, in that and yeah, and so we started working together for three months. And then do you remember what happened during those first three months in terms of like, where I was like on the map?
Speaker 2:I think that there was a lot of second guessing. There was a lot of like I want this tomorrow, if not yesterday, I want all the pieces to fall in. There was a lot of urgency, right, Like things needed to be a particular way for safety to be in the room. I remember that. Oh my gosh and you know, you know the sort of investment that you had in yourself was that you basically had me 24-7.
Speaker 1:Right, so I wanted you to feel like you're not alone the way my clients are coming to me now like Tor, like why isn't this happening fast enough? I need this to work now and why don't I have the dates now? And I'm like looking back, I did need that. I felt like I was going to die if I didn't move forward.
Speaker 2:You giggle, but it's normal. We all want something yesterday yeah, Me included.
Speaker 1:Today I want certain things yesterday, I think and it's not that I don't want things yesterday now is that I know how to be with the present moment now, like I know how to be present. At the time, I didn't know how to be present. It literally felt like I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die'm not going to survive if I don't get this now, if I don't move away from this now.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember that, and so part of our original work right was showing you all the places you were safe, showing you all the places you did have power, showing you all the places where you could be responsible, where you could take action Like what was actually yours. Revisiting all those places.
Speaker 1:And I thank you because one of the things that I've always admired about you is your ability to to see me without judging, see people in general without judging and when I say judging, we all judge, but without making me feel like something was wrong with me, but also not let me sit in my own bullshit Like you were able to challenge me and make me feel safe at the same time, and that's not something that I had been accustomed to Like. Oh, you're challenging me and I feel safe in this. You're pushing back and I feel safe in this.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that took some time. I don't know if you remember we fought a few times and then you would say I'm sorry, we're fighting, and I would say it's okay, I know you want to fight.
Speaker 2:No, I don't remember, tell me, we used to fight. We did. Yes, we used to fight. I used to like to, you used to like to fight. It was the stage you were in right, there was probably a change in relationship. You didn't have your husband there to fight anymore, so you wanted certain things. You wanted it yesterday, and who was your in your corner? It was me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you'd be like well, why I don't understand, but why did I? And we would just go back and forth, back and forth. And I say to you, like I'm, not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:I could fight with you all day, oh shit we could do this for many hours.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:now I'm recalling some of the times I fought with you. Now you're bringing it to the surface. I remember yelling, yelling. You would drag me and I will still be like not even hearing you, like I don't even care what you're saying right now, catherine, I don't care yeah yeah we would like fight in the night and then make up in the morning, or I mean I wasn't upset.
Speaker 2:so when I say makeup, I just mean you were probably after a good night's sleep. You would be more grounded and you'd be like oh, I can see now that X, y or Z Right, we needed to traverse a little bit of that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I actually remember that time when I called you crying. I called you at midnight it was midnight, your time in New York because it was a house that I wanted, that I couldn't get, and I literally thought that that was the worst thing ever. I felt like God had forsaken me, that I couldn't get this house, and I felt like I was doing everything right. And I called you and you answered the phone. You were like honey, are you okay? Thing right. And I called you and you answered the phone like you were like honey, are you okay? Like. When I called because I was crying, I was like they're not approving me for the house.
Speaker 1:It was like midnight, you're telling me. It was like are you serious? Are you really calling me because you didn't get approved for a house?
Speaker 2:Do you remember that conversation? I do.
Speaker 1:What happened.
Speaker 2:I wanted you to feel the gravity of what you were, making something mean, and the only way for me to do that was to be animated. And I clearly did a good job, because you remember this story. Above all stories, this is the one you remember the most.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget. I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. Once I got off the phone I was like, oh cause, you mirrored back to me Like it felt like bish you calling me about this. This is nothing, do you not know? There is so much going on that's way bigger than your house approval, do you not understand? And I was just sitting there like, oh, this is how she's. I was embarrassed and I hung up the phone and I never did it again. That was the moment when I realized that I needed to teach myself how to hold myself, because I wasn't always going to have like. I was using you for my own emotional regulation, outsourcing it versus like learning how to be safe.
Speaker 2:And in that level of holding right Part of our work together, was you learning how to titrate with someone that was?
Speaker 1:part of that. Girl don't nobody know what titrate means, because you can see this.
Speaker 2:The hell. What does titrate mean? Okay, titrate means would mean when you kind of titter, totter or maybe hopscotch or think of like how you would go left, right, left, right, left, right in your body. So our energy systems sort of titrate and they kind of go front back, left, right.
Speaker 2:We move energetically and when you're with someone else and they have a strong nervous system, you feel held, and when they have a really crappy nervous system, you feel scared or potentially like you have to do the work to hold them. So as humans we titrate off of each other all the time. So it's sort of I'm even thinking, I'm thinking of tennis, like when you hit the ball back and forth, back and forth, like sometimes you're holding, sometimes you're giving hold, give hold, give that, give hold, give that. Or hold be held, hold be held. And you had been used to having a certain level of volatility in your body right when you could just go from zero to a thousand super quick, and part of the titration was what actually requires me to go to a thousand and what does?
Speaker 1:not so good. Good, like cause. You're bringing me back to remembrance because in my marriage I w I had always gone from zero to a hundred, real quick, and people will be like, oh, that's, that's, that's Gemini you. But I really didn't feel like those circumstances that I was experiencing. I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust anything to know like what was, what was worth, this or not, because everything felt like a threat.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think when we first start to look at ourselves in the mirror, we start to see all the places where we need things to be just a certain way for us to feel safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I didn't have a lot of safety, so therefore I had to try to control everything. I had to try to control everything because I didn't feel safe in my body. If this was this way and this was that way, I'm going to die. Yeah, I'm going to die because.
Speaker 1:I didn't have that internal safety. Everything had to be on the external. So thank you for bringing that back to my remembrance. Oh my gosh, you're bringing up so much stuff that I have not thought about in so long. Speaking about learning to trust myself, do you remember when we had to come up with a whole plan for how I was going to actually navigate leaving my marriage and the divorce?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, you want to talk about that. Well, I remember one of the bigger things was to do it in a way that was that potentially stretched you but didn't stretch you too far. In other words, you had been married for a while, you knew this person, you knew what it was like to be married. You had a lot of conditioning around marriage, a lot of conditioning around divorce, a lot of conditioning around how it should be done, and you wanted it to look a particular way.
Speaker 1:I was like I don't know if it's going to look like that.
Speaker 2:How did I want it to look Well, I mean, we all want divorce to look gorgeous, right? We want it to be like amicable, and I'm going to let you know the things that I didn't like, and you're going to let me know the things you didn't like, and we're just going to part ways and and off to God. You go, off to God, I go, and we have an amazing path ahead of us.
Speaker 1:Did you think I wanted that, though? Cause I think I was low key. I was scared of him.
Speaker 2:You were. But what we're, what we're fearful of and what we want right Are different. Oh, okay, cause I don't feel like I was scared. You were scared of like worst case scenario, like we don't know what he's gonna have. It was so when we worked on that part for you, it was like how do we go slow enough? And by slow I mean we had to slow down to the slowest part of you, because every time we took a step there was a particular activation in your body.
Speaker 2:And so you need to like maybe you couldn't sleep or you were worried or you were super concerned about how he was going to react, super concerned how he was going to take some something, super concerned about what was going to be worst case scenario, and so a lot of our work was all right, let's talk about worst case scenario and what does that mean for you, and let's really go back to the place that you are a strong, powerful woman. And if he does that, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Like you're going to be okay. Do you remember any things I was particularly nervous about?
Speaker 2:particularly nervous about? Yes, I do. I don't know if this is for public consumption, so I'm going to see how I can word this, even though I know you're going to tell me it's okay, you can say it.
Speaker 1:I respect you talking in code.
Speaker 2:Okay, great, so I'm going to see how I can deliver this. So, even though you had all this fear, there was a deep desire and sort of like this hanging this thing hanging in the background or over your head, of how can he and I communicate better? You have a son in the picture as well. Right, there's a third party involved, and there were still a few more years before Yvonne would be 18. And there were still a few more years before Yvonne would be 18. And there's a certain level of amicability that is required. It's really a sensitive subject.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's not like, let's just blow everything up with a grenade, it's okay. How can I communicate, potentially in a way that he can hear me or that I can be heard? How do I describe what I'm going through?
Speaker 1:I think I was scared because I left Vaughn with him.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, but Vaughn also wanted to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was nervous on how to handle that. I felt like that was a delicate situation, that I felt like that was a delicate situation. And then how do, how do I communicate with him without making things bad for Vaughn? That was one that was a big thing for me.
Speaker 2:It was, and it's not just for you. Most people who are getting divorced, who have children, right, there's a fear of how. What is the backlash going to be like for my children or for my child?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's a very true thing that happens right A lot often parents will weaponize their children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And so how do we maneuver this in the most self way possible for the most amicable outcome?
Speaker 1:Okay, so yes, that was also a part of the plan, the communication piece, and I remember us, like you, like us, coming up with plans together in order, in order to like, navigate things Well, um like, for example, I could not have a conversation with him on the phone.
Speaker 2:That was the biggest one. That man sends you over.
Speaker 1:You guys go from conversation to army boot camp super fast. I know I could never, because I would try to get on a call. I would try to get on the phone all calm and poised and powerful and five minutes in I am a mess. I have completely. What a song called Unravel me. You ever heard that I would be unraveled? I would be like a hot mess, and then I will be messaging you and calling you like this. So I couldn't even speak on the phone with him, and so we had to create a plan for even communication of me not getting on the phone with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there were a few things right You're not getting on the phone with him and then only getting on the phone under certain circumstances, and there was a level of plan where you would get on the phone but there would be a third party present and like trying to figure out all these ways and how you can communicate with one another and I do actually think that in that time frame you were able to raise my capacity, your capacity I'm looking for words that people would know, just in case but, yes, raise your capacity of being in discomfort. I did. I did.
Speaker 2:And I remember being so proud of you and you even being like I did it. I was there and I was in the hot seat and I was boiling and I wanted to throw the grenade and I didn't throw the grenade, or it took me X amount of time to throw the grenade. Okay, this time it was five minutes, this time it was 10 minutes. Oh, I was there for 20 minutes and I didn't have to throw the grenade. It was all the little bits and pieces of how can I hold myself, stay regulated, stay in the room, not pop out and become unconscious. You remember that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I do, I do, and I was very proud of myself when I could remain in the room and be present, even if it was 10 minutes longer than I used to, not, I'm like, oh, I stayed in the room and I remember recording conversations between him and I and sending them to you and like, here's what I did.
Speaker 1:I was able to do this and just being really, really happy about that. So, yeah, that was, that was great. I'm actually very proud of it because even now it's had I'm. I have so much more range to just stay in the room. I have so much more range.
Speaker 2:There's. It requires a lot of range to be with someone who, as they're upset or you're upset, especially anger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it has helped me be in a room with the men that I'm dating. Just in general, I easily be in a room when they are not their best selves. I know how to just be with them and not make it a thing, and I can just watch them spiral and I'm here. I can watch them have their own little meltdowns and I'm here and I'm actually very proud of that, that I'm able to do that and I just let them have their moment.
Speaker 2:Yes, we all get to have our moments and we're all human. We all have the moments.
Speaker 1:It becomes something when we're not in approval of the moment when we need the moment to be different, when we need the people to behave differently in order for us to feel safe or in order for us to stay present. A piece that I didn't know was an issue and it was my compartmentalizing of me, compartmentalizing my life, and I couldn't feel because of it. You want to talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2:Well, you say a little more about it. What do you mean?
Speaker 1:exactly so I remember us having a conversation. I was crying one day and I was like why does it hurt so much? It always hurts, every day it hurts so bad. And I was just crying and crying. I was like I have never heard it like this in all of my life. Every day it hurts. And he was like well, now you can feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So you're talking about your ability to not look and not feel things. And then, all of a sudden, you're feeling things and you're like what is happening? And often we're like, oh well, clearly this is the love of my life. Clearly, this man has a lot of power over me. Clearly, this relationship was the relationship we make it about the person. When it's more like, oh, I am feeling deeply, I have clearly cleared things out of the way. I'm no longer locked out of my own heart. Now I can feel the pain and, wow, this pain feels like it's going to kill me, and I know my famous statement of nobody dies from heartbreak. Like you're going to be okay. It hurts and it's okay. It's painful, I get it and you're going to be okay. And I remember us talking about how the level to which you feel pain is the same level to which you will feel happiness. And so, yes, you haven't felt that much pain, but chances are you also haven't felt that much happiness.
Speaker 1:Yes, two things have been true same time, I think. I cried every day for months, every single day. That was at least two to three minutes of crying at least, and I just couldn't understand why it was so much of it. I couldn't get it. And you reflected back to me about like how much I have, you know, put through myself, into work, right Through myself, into projects, through myself, and like being locked out of myself, and so I couldn't feel all the pain that was building up in my body. And this was just like a release and of grief, and it was good for my body to be able to do it, even though it was scary. It was scary for me to cry every day. It was good for my body to be able to do it, even though it was scary. It was scary for me to cry every day. It was painful. And now I look back at it I'm like, oh, you're such a great crier.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy that you feel that way. Yes, I think being able to drop tears at the drop of a dime is really helpful. And this isn't for everyone, right. Like people who are locked out, crying is very refreshing. And people who easily cry that person being able to get into reality faster, that's really their uh North star. So I don't want to say this is a blanket for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So, um, you just said something it had me think of hang on. So you were locked out. You had all this like pent up. It was like you. You know, when we're locked out, we're basically holding this beach ball underwater and it takes a lot of energy to hold this beach ball underwater and then all of a sudden, the beach ball pops up because you can't hold it underwater anymore. Or you're doing the work to see the beach ball and now this beach ball is just uncontrollable. You just can't get it. Your hands are wet, it keeps slipping, plus you're crying. You're dealing with all these emotions, and that's a training ground in itself, like when you said I was crying every day. Yes, some of it is a real moving of emotion, as in emotions in motion through your body. Some of it is partly in the mind.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was a lot of mind is like oh my God, I can't believe this is happening to me. This is the worst thing ever. What did I do? I messed this up.
Speaker 2:I, whatever mental dialogue is taking place, that then sort of circle, jerks the tears and then we have just more tears and just hard for the course. You had said Now I remember what I was pausing for. You had said, like you know, I had all these emotions in my body and there are some psychiatrists or therapists that would say there is no such thing, like we don't really hold something somewhere. And so I want to talk to, to speak to that real quick. It's possible that it exists and it's possible that it doesn't exist. Like I want to talk about it from a molecular place, like does it really exist in the fat cell? Does it exist in the nucleus? Like we don't know.
Speaker 2:Some people will say, oh, I feel it trapped in my body. Some people will say like, oh my God, this heartbreak, it feels like my physical heart is breaking. So there is a felt sense for some people that this hurts that much, as if I'm cracking all over, and I think that's valid if I'm cracking all over, and I think that's valid. And for someone who has held on and been closed off and not felt a long time after so much release. There's just so much space, yes, and when I say space I mean there's so much more space to feel. It's as if in your body you feel more range of movement, more range of movement to walk, more range of movement to love, more range of movement to do. You're less trapped in story and pent up emotion and you're freer to be present in the moment.
Speaker 1:And that has been one of my favorite disciplines of like working together, of just being able, because that it all goes back to like my sense of safety, of me. Learning how to do that Helped me feel more safe in my body, me learning how to be with all of that new movement, all that emotion I was feeling. I'm very proud of my ability to sit with it now and whatever pain has come up like I've been crying all this week and it has just felt amazing I have been able to like just be with myself and not self abandon and not take myself out of the present moment. And I attributed that work of like working with you and like learning how to do that. What I also attributed to working with you is like my self-trust. I know when I first came to you I didn't realize I lacked a lot of self-trust, but that basically came up like I didn't trust myself. You want to share more about what you saw there when I first came?
Speaker 2:I mean, when we first started working together, we weren't aliens to each other, we were friends, and so there were places where you hadn't seen yourself clearly right, where you didn't know, oh, I don't trust. But you were like, well, what if this happens? What if that happens? What if this happens? What if that happens? There was a lot of that conversation and then I would be like, okay, so let's talk about it. What if that happens?
Speaker 2:And then that happens, and like the fear spirals that some of us can go through when we don't trust ourselves, we're like nothing can go wrong, because if one thing goes wrong, my whole world falls apart, and so a lot of our work in that area was, that's true, things might fall apart and you may not recognize your life, but the goal is to create something better than you could have ever imagined. And we don't know what that looks like, because first we have to dismantle all the places where you feel afraid and bring in self-trust that, even if it was worst case scenario, that you were going to be okay. That's what I remember of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to always say like, well, what if this happens, and what if that and things need I needed the house to be approved. I remember I had applied I had several people applying on my behalf as well to get me a house and none of those was going through. And like every single time I had a meltdown, like I had like this breakdown. Every time I didn't get my way and just looking at my life, I was like everything that did not go my way I was flipping out because I didn't trust myself to really move through it. And how different I am now anything comes up and I'm like how different I am now anything comes up and I'm like this sucks, I hate that it's happening, but I got it. You know, I think I just sent you some paperwork about being sued. I'm like I got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing is that life is going to suck, yeah, and if we only know how to be happy when things are going well, well shit, half of your life is going to suck. And I know a lot of the places in our work together. Like, one of the biggest things I talk about is what is ours to do? Like it's our job to hold ourselves. It's our job to figure out how we're going to be safe in certain places, and sometimes we don't have the answer to figure out how we're going to be safe in certain places, and sometimes we don't have the answer. Like I know there are certain places, even right now, that you want to expand and you're like, oh, I want to, I want support here. What does that look like? We don't know. It doesn't mean you abandon your dreams of wanting to go somewhere. It just means that we expect for life to show it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, like you, just keep going one foot at one step at time, versus when we have fear and we're like, oh, I want support in this area. Oh, support hasn't shown up. Well, clearly, god does not love me. Clearly, I am not blessed. Clearly, other people have it better than me. Clearly, well, I am just effed. And that's not, that's not helpful. It really has me not feel the disappointment and not getting what I want. In addition to I don't know how to pick up the responsibility of where, what can I do? And it just has me feel like hell and it's a really disempowering place to be.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I think that. Well, I don't think it's one of the main reasons why when, like women in my audience who maybe listen to my content but don't go after love, or like really want to invest time and energy and love is because they don't want to feel that part, they don't want to take the risk to even experience that part. And so if you can just control all the areas in your life that you can control, then you don't get to feel the sucky parts. If you can just invest in your career and invest in all the things that you feel like are guaranteed, you don't have to feel sucky because of these parts over here. But love is a different kind of risk and so they never go after it because then life gets sucky when they go after it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. I think that, um, trusting yourself to be able to traverse things when things are bad, while staying present, while still being able to touch joy, while still loving yourself and not beating yourself up, is a real powerful stance.
Speaker 1:Because can't you just do anything you want at that point? Can't you just go after whatever you want, if you have that skill set? Because you can just be with it.
Speaker 2:I might be saying something controversial. I would say that once you've reached that place, even if you never hit another goal, even if you didn't gain everything you ever wanted, you would have still lived a life that's richer than most.
Speaker 1:Okay, Eckhart Tolle. Okay, Eckhart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wonder sometimes. Yeah, I wonder sometimes, like I know we have a lot of things that we want to attain, but being able to stay present in your body through tough moments and not have to exit, it's a big skill. It's a big skill but it's, it's a gift. It's like the reward is so high.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The reward feels like wow, I'm amazing to be with. Let me share this with others or let me enjoy myself here. Yeah, either way, I love my company.
Speaker 1:Either way, thank you for sharing that. Speaking of um, like we were talking about blowing stuff up and things not working and things feeling sucky. When I left my marriage, it wasn't just me my marriage being gone, like my business was crumbling. I didn't know how I was going to keep going. I didn't know how to pivot, because people want to work with a dating coach who's married Like people used to drag me if I didn't have my wedding ring on in the videos, and so my identity was shook. The tone is always created at the top, so if you don't feel sure in yourself, that's going to be reflected in your business. And so the business was crumbling. My team, there was issues on my team, and I just felt like nothing is working out for me. My marriage didn't work out. I'm not really seeing my son the way I want to see him. That's not working out. And I'm dealing with this business and it's not working out. Do you remember those? I'm sure you remember about the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took some time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, what specifically do you want to remember or?
Speaker 1:like what part of that are you looking at right now, Every, every week, every month? I couldn't figure out why my business was like not working.
Speaker 2:I couldn't figure it out. The thing is we couldn't put our finger on it because you were doing air quotes, all the right things, like for the people listening right she, you've gotten her emails, amazing emails. Podcasts, amazing podcast drops. Lives, great lives, workshops, amazing workshops. And so you were putting in an insane amount of effort to grow something and it just was not growing in the way that you wanted it to grow ma'am, it wasn't growing at all.
Speaker 1:And what you talking about grow, I would put so much effort into it and it would just shrink. It would just shrink, it would. The more effort I put into it just shrinked. And that was a big thing. So I'm like like navigating, I'm like OK, so now I'm a broke bitch on top of like being a divorced one. I couldn't hold myself there. What were, I guess, what were your insights during that time as we reflect back on that?
Speaker 2:I remember feeling at the time there's something bigger than what we can see. And then, little by little, you started to change how you were showing up for your audience. Yeah, and little by little, you started to become more authentic and sharing your groups. And your group calls oh, this is what's happening in my marriage, this is what happened in prison, this is what happened in my dating life, this is what happens with this one. Oh, now you're doing workshops and you're showing people different text messages, how people respond, and you're starting to show them some mastery that you have in places you hadn't necessarily talked about in the past, like if they saw who I really was, then they would walk away from me.
Speaker 1:If my audience really knew I'm a freaking fraud like my marriage didn't work out you know I'm a fraud and I didn't want them to see that piece of me and this is why, like you know, my clients come to me now and they're like Tori, I did all the things.
Speaker 1:I went out and I smiled and I waved and I went on all the dates and or I did this and I'm not getting the date and I effort and I effort and I effort and I effort. I'm like effort is not going to get you where you need to be if the energy is off, and at the time my energy was completely off because I didn't want to be seen for real. It's like when women say, oh, I smiled and waved, tora, yes, you were visible, but you didn't want to be seen, and that is why you're not getting approach, that's why you're not getting the dates. I didn't want people to see me. I wanted to post what I wanted to post and I'm like I don't really want you to see what's happening with me, what's going on with me, who I actually am right now. I want you to see whatever I'm putting out there.
Speaker 2:Well, in your defense. There was a lot happening and you weren't necessarily on the other side yet and it's really scary to share from the place of when you're crumbling and basically, if you were this house, your whole house is in shambles. Like you just puddles of cement everywhere, Like you're just trying to figure it out and rebuild yourself. And personal development work is not for the faint of heart. This is not an easy thing to traverse. I don't. I think the reward is high and I'm not going to pretend that it's easy, because it is not.
Speaker 1:I think you have to address personal development differently, because the personal development work that we did, that I did with you that that's literally not what people are doing Like people. So you have to really talk about this different. People really think they're doing personal development work and I'm like, no, you have people.
Speaker 2:People think personal development work is like this is so rude. I'm not saying that Someone already knows is so rude, I'm about to say, but someone already knows I'm rude I do, says I'm shady all the time. People see personal development work like getting your MSW or getting your psych degree or becoming engineer or becoming a doctor. Or taking a course, personal development course, like a worthiness course taking a course and you learn a few things journaling, you've read a few books and you know yourself oh, a meditation.
Speaker 2:You know how to meditate and you know how to pause and like you've got this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I see tons of people that are amazing giving me quotes. The other day somebody was. I was telling someone something like you know, you're not really in relationship being yourself unless you're willing to lose it, Because otherwise you're not really being yourself, because we are truly ourselves. We're about to lose this shit, quick, Right, Because we're not perfect all the time. She's like taking out her phone, putting in notes, I'm like, okay, millennial, and the reason why I say that and I've been sitting with why it's really big out there. Now I see it. Everybody knows Amal Farr, or everybody knows you know Tony Robbins. I can spit out so many coaches. Everybody knows the dogma, Everybody has the verbiage. But you know what? Everybody doesn't have Emotional freedom, self-regulation, groundedness, self-trust, belief in the system. I mean, I just gained something recently and I've been at this for almost 30 years. Just the other day I was like oh wow, there is no right answer. Like what if the answer I chose was the best answer at the time?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And if I would have chosen differently, that that would have been the wrong answer.
Speaker 1:Right Cause we were different.
Speaker 2:When you're really doing personal development work, it's almost like there's a dark night of the soul. There's definitely a loss of who you think you are and it's scary as hell down there in the dark by yourself and it's not writing.
Speaker 1:It's like, when I think about it, the work that I've had to do versus like the work that people think that you should do. I'm like none of that, Like I wasn't doing that.
Speaker 2:A few things occur. First of all, there's no blanket statement, like you know how. You go to the doctor and they're like oh you know, you have allergies, take Benadryl or take Zyrtec. There's no flat prescription for someone. The prescription starts at where are you not free? So if you are the person that you are second guessing yourself, well then you're not free in self-trust. If you're the person that somebody pisses you off or you have road rage and you want to murder the other car, well, you're not free. Freedom is when you get to choose one or the other. Freedom is oh, I feel you baiting me for this argument and I get to choose whether or not I'm going to engage, because I have sovereignty and agency here, because I don't need to react to my external world. I get to be who I want to be in this moment. That's freedom. That doesn't come from a book book.
Speaker 2:That doesn't come from a course, that comes from being in it and practicing. And, like I'm going to go back to something we talked about today you being on the phone with your ex-husband, right, somebody could easily say you know what, simone, hang up on that man who cares, you don't need to hear whatever, right, that's a. That would be a very normal thing for women to say that wasn't my practice, but that was not your practice. That wasn't my practice, but that was not your practice.
Speaker 1:That's correct. That wasn't my practice. The.
Speaker 2:Boundaries book would say uh-oh, you can't let this man cross your boundaries. No, no, no, you need to let him know where you are, and I'm like that's not your work.
Speaker 1:That's not my practice.
Speaker 2:Your work is how can you stay in the room feeling his wrath and not check out and become unconscious? How long can you stay in there in the fire and be present? Because that's where your power is by being completely unmovable, unshakable, unrattled in the face of someone's potential violence that doesn't come from boundaries book no but somebody could preach that it comes from boundaries book, that you just need to love yourself more right, and I would have never been able to do that without the holding, without the adjustments.
Speaker 1:and there's a lot of us thinking that we can just take a course or we could just read the book, and now we have it, not realizing that we haven't been adjusted, we haven't been.
Speaker 2:We don't have any models for it, and that's the truth. There are tons of people out there writing books and putting out amazing quotes, and there are very few people that you can be with them and you're like oh, you are the same online and in person. Oh, you are the same when you're happy and when you're sad. Oh, you are the same when you're happy and when you're sad. Oh, you are the same when you're happy and you're pissed. Oh, you are the same under most conditions. Oh, you know how to hold yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is what it looks like and that's not so readily available. I mean, I didn't see it until I was in my thirties and I was at a business conference when I saw it for the first time A woman being able to hold herself in a particular way. I didn't have words for it. I was like what programs have you done? I want to take those programs.
Speaker 1:No, I really was like oh, I want to learn. Well, that's actually what led me to be like Catherine is going to, she's going to be the one to hold me through the fire here, because I saw you model it Me watching you model it. I'm like, oh yeah, she's going to help me get the power.
Speaker 2:I need the power. Yes, I think you and I have enough life together that you've been in moments where people are throwing wrath at me oh yeah, and like how I can hold myself there.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it.
Speaker 2:I'm like, want that kind of power. I want to be able to just sit there and be present and not be moved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes a lot of self-regulation, yeah, and going back to the business, I had to learn how to sit and just be with what is what when it came to my business, cause I was like I just need me, I just need to be where I need to be now, like my business needs to be here now and and just be, be okay with being present, with having negative $200 in my account, like that was the scariest thing ever is to have Netflix decline. Who has Netflix decline?
Speaker 2:Every time you say that it cracks me up. You know another way for me. While I witnessed you there, I thought, wow, this is amazing money, work Right, being able to see something crumbling and you can witness yourself not die, oh yeah. Just how we talk about. I say no heartbreak is going to kill you, Right? We could also look at like no bankruptcy is going to kill you or no bank account balance is going to kill you.
Speaker 1:Even though I thought it was.
Speaker 2:For sure. I mean it's scary. Right Money is so connect money, relationships, health Well, I mean health is a completely different thing. You can have a million problems once you have a health problem, that's the only problem you have. Yeah, but you could have many money problems and you could have many relationship problems, and they're just problems, because death is an intimate intimate, but even though we may think it's imminent, but it's not it felt like it for a long time because we worked together for two years.
Speaker 1:So you've seen.
Speaker 2:Your business ebb and flowed. You had moments where you may not recall, but moments where you had high highs, right, and really low lows and you were trying to figure out like how can I make my business be sustainable? And you got some really amazing support in those areas. I am not the only person that has supported you here. I've seen the size of your team. I don't know if your audience knows how big your teams can be at times. My team. Like I, was one of many coaches holding you right, right.
Speaker 1:But you were the main coach, letting me be present with what is.
Speaker 2:Yes, I wasn't involved in strategy or how you're going to build it or dismantle it. I was just like how can we be okay with what is happening? What is it here to teach you? Why is it here and what are the feelings that are coming up, and how can you be with them, even though we don't like them?
Speaker 1:Yes, you taught me how to be with it, even with the declines, even with the negative account. Like, how do I just be with that, with the people?
Speaker 2:I'm just giggling. Say it again I'm just giggling because I know we've worked Also. One of our biggest places of work has been communication. Oh, how to be with like clients. Well, you received emails and clients.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Remember how we would go line by line to take out any fluff. Oh, I have to take out people pleasings.
Speaker 1:You know, it's so funny because now I'm training my assistant on that. I'm like why is that line in there? That's that's too. That's people pleasing, that's apologetic, like we don't need to apologize for that. Take it out. That's fluff, take it out. I'm training him on it now. On the language, um, and it's so funny because I I loved practicing that communication with you, because that also opened up more things for me. So thank you for remembering that.
Speaker 2:I remember because it's such a hard thing to do when you go from people pleasing, usually the next step is to eliminate all people pleasing in conversation, like eliminate all the fluff. And then, once that feels really clean and clear and communication is clear and we're not trying to manipulate another person so that they can do the thing that we need them to do, so that our life could be smooth and we have it just how we want it could be right sized, then we can slowly start to bring in more love into those communications when appropriate right, but but you definitely had all of those, all of those things happening at the same time that's crazy at now that look I, I did that much work.
Speaker 1:I was working on that many things at the same time. We worked on a lot of things. So we're working on self-trust responsibility, because there was a place I didn't want to be responsible for things.
Speaker 2:What do you remember? I don't want to be. Why is that my responsibility, catherine? I'm like. Well, if you want to be free, it's yours. You don't want to be free, then it's not yours.
Speaker 1:I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:It could be somebody else's property. Let them do it for us.
Speaker 1:I was like why can't the men do it?
Speaker 2:Why can't they handle it? It's a completely different thing when your man does something that you're capable of doing, right.
Speaker 1:And I've gotten to the place where I'm like, because there was a place where, like, my husband handled things and I'm like, well, I don't know how to handle that now, or I don't know how to be responsible for that, because I wasn't responsible for all of these years, right, and so I'm just expecting other men to be responsible for it, versus no, how do you be responsible for your bills even though you don't have to pay some right now? How do you be responsible for your bills even though you don't have to pay some right now? How do you be responsible for your business? How do you be responsible for these things? And I really had to think about like, oh, wow, like I'm not responsible. And now, when I receive support around it, it's not from the place of me not wanting to be responsible, it's in lieu of my being responsible. And so I appreciate that because I feel really powerful. I feel like if people walk away from me or if support is taken away from me, I'm still able to show up fully without feeling like I lost anything.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're self-sufficient.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:While also being able to be receptive and allow others to show up for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very different when we let people show up for us because we don't know how to do it Right. And that's where I was.
Speaker 1:I was like I don't know how to do this.
Speaker 2:It's very different, you know, when we see children learning how to tie their shoes and they're like no, I let me try, let me do it, let me tie it. That's like all the places that we build independence. We've been talking about these places where we haven't had models of people walking through the world, regulated, in their power, in their responsibility, like really being who they want to be, and a lot of us can say, oh, you know, it's an inner child wound, or it's a wound and you know what, like we're not 17 anymore, that's been, that happened. Our parents didn't do it. Now it's our time. Yeah, so if we're 18 and we don't know, that makes sense. Maybe nobody taught us.
Speaker 1:But if you're 32 and you don't know, Do you remember me like after I left my marriage? I was still on the phone plan with my husband Let him pay the bill, not being responsible, not being responsible for it and it took how many years two and a half years for me to get my own phone plan and then, out of the blue, he cuts the phone off. But you know what? I already had a phone, so it was amazing that I was able to take responsibility and didn't have that like leaving that in his hand. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2:There are all these places where we forego our responsibility and we put it in somebody else's hands, but we don't know when that's going to go away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because nothing lasts forever, not even marriage, because even if you're together forever, one of you is going to die Like something's going to happen, so nothing is eternal. Like I think I've joked with you recently what happens if I get old and I have Alzheimer's? Am I going to be crazy like I was before I was self-regulated? I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's no evidence for that. I don't know, but it is something that I've thought of, because who I am now has taken so much personal work that I wonder what would happen if, for some reason, I can't think in the same way anymore or don't remember who I am.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting.
Speaker 2:It is, we don't know. These are just questions that are like in the void.
Speaker 1:I don't know. So we work through self-trust, we work through responsibility, we work through communication we will. We work through surrender yeah, cause I, I want to control everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Surrender is a tough one, right yeah? Yeah, Surrender is a tough one right, yeah, yeah, surrender is really tough and really tender. It requires you to trust yourself, which you started to do beautifully, and it required you to be willing to witness who you become when there is no certainty of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who you become when there is no certainty of something. Yeah, I remember feeling so proud one day. We were on the phone and I think we were. We were still. I was like we were still had the coach coachy relationship and you were like Simone, I think you're an amazing student and that felt so good to hear because I think I had been so. We were so much into the weeds of my life that I don't think we had that much reflection. So would you like to share more about that?
Speaker 2:about that being in the weeds. It's sort of everything becomes dark and you're in the dark and I'm in the dark with you and we're like polishing you like this gorgeous stone. So we don't get to see the results until you're kind of like out of that dark place. And when I started to see, oh, she was able to have this argument and stay in it, okay, oh, she's able to be in this uncertainty and still be okay, oh, I see her having these clarifying conversations, oh, and I started to be like she's really implementing.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's no better time for a coach than to see the person they're holding implement. I mean, well, yes, I mean there's pride there. It's like, oh, my student got it right, like, yes, there's that. But there's also me having lived experience and knowing what it feels like to be in that location, and I was like, oh, my God, I love this for her because I knew where it began, right. And to go from a place fully anxious, not knowing, not knowing where you're at, not trusting your decisions, not knowing what's next, feeling like you don't know what's going to happen if other people erupt or if things don't go your way to be in a place of, oh, I can really be with all that's here, even when it's not that great. Oh, I can self-regulate myself even if other people aren't regulated. Oh, I can communicate even if this other person isn't going to like what I have to say, and I can not abandon myself in those places. I mean, that deserves a medal right there.
Speaker 1:Oh, what would you say makes a good student? Because typically, when I get new clients a good student? Because typically when I get new clients, one of the things that they do is number one like they have to get the work done in order to feel like they have, like they're checking off the box, like before they come to a call they need to feel like they've implemented the homework. They can't come to the call. Like, sometimes, if things blow up in their lives, they feel embarrassed coming to the call, feeling like things haven't worked out there and they're good if they pretty much do everything that's being said to do. In your opinion, what makes a good student?
Speaker 2:I think a good student is someone that doesn't have to be right. A good student is somebody who knows that I may not be right, like I know there were times, definitely in our fighting era, where you're like you know what, catherine, you're giving me your piece and I'm like I hope I'm wrong, right, like sometimes I see a train wreck and the client can't see the train wreck and I'm just like, hopefully I'm wrong. I don't know if I'm going to be right, you know, like we just don't know. So all of this to say these are different ways in which the client is just living their life and showing up and not knowing it's less about I got it right and more about I was in there and this is what happened.
Speaker 2:A good student is somebody that knows how to be with whatever is happening, whatever the facts are, without making them mean anything, because when we get there, we could do great work. But if I have a student who is making something mean something, well, now we're talking at a different level. Now we're just wanting to regulate the student, right, because they're making the story mean something about them, about themselves. It's fine. It's not air quotes bad, it's just a different level of work, and so I feel that when I said to you, you're a good student, we got to go to the places where you really felt held by me, you understood that I saw you and that I was not invested in your actions one way or another. I just wanted to back you 100% with what you wanted to do and I wanted you to be clear on what your choices were. Often, people don't see that they have a choice. They can't see where they're choosing.
Speaker 1:Explain that People don't see that they have a choice and that they Sometimes we don't see that they have a choice and that they Sometimes we don't see that we have a choice because we just don't like our choices. Explain that it's poetry.
Speaker 2:I get it.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean, but the people?
Speaker 2:So let's say I have to cross the road and let's say the light turns green, so I have to run across and I could get run over, or I can stay on the sidewalk and I can die. Neither is a good choice running across and get running over, or standing on the sidewalk and dying. What's easiest to do, and what our society does, is well, what can I tell you? I didn't have a choice. I had to run across the street, even though I got hit. I had no choice, but I did have a choice. I could have stayed on the sidewalk and died.
Speaker 2:So what really it means is we don't like the choices we have. We feel as though they're insurmountable choices, like it's just ungodly, for lack of a better word. But if we could slow down and just be like okay, I have this choice, I can stay here and die, or I can go across the street and die. Maybe I live, maybe I don't, and I get to decide. Do I want to be on life support? Do I not want to be on life support? Do I want to be a vegetable? Do I not want to be a vegetable? Am I ready to die now? Am I not ready to die now? Is there a phone call that I need to make, like what, if anything, can I do from this location? I know it's a crazy example, but just to show that even in those moments there's a choice to make, oh yeah, and the choice is mine.
Speaker 1:One of the things that clients like to tell me is that they have to go to work and work these amount of hours, like they have to show up this way, or this isn't going to work, and it's like you don't even realize that it's a choice, that you even are employed, you think you have to do it and you don't. Now we want to do it because it pays our bills, but it's something that we're choosing to do, and so when I have clients that complain about like, like, their jobs, I have to point them back that their job is a choice. Their career is a choice.
Speaker 2:And this is one of my favorites. It is yes, I didn't know that. Yes, if I didn't, if I wasn't married to him, if I wasn't married to her, if I didn't have this job, if I didn't live in this city, if I didn't have this car, if I didn't have this mother, if I didn't have this father, if I didn't have these siblings, if I didn't have this disease, if I didn't have this like autoimmune issue, if I didn't whatever, if I didn't insert said thing, I would whatever. And it's my favorite thing, because the truth of the matter is that that's not where the work is. It's less about where you going to work or how many hours you're working and more about who are you. That's the work, because whether you have the job or you don't have the job, you're you. Whether you're in communication with the parent, not in communication with the parent, you're you.
Speaker 2:We don't recognize that the biggest common denominator is us it's us and we take it wherever we go yes in every relationship, every circumstance, um, and that's what go ahead everything can be practiced, just how you practice with staying in the room. You know when you and your husband were having these volatile conversations right. Someone can practice going to work and looking at who would I be and how would I start to implement working less hours. What would that require of me? Where would I have to get better to produce differently so that I could work less? Like what is within my power to change?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do I have to answer calls all day long Like do I have to do that or can there be something else put into place, or like just whatever. So we it's a big thing for us, especially high achievers we have this thing like I have to do these things and no, we don't. We don't have to do anything. We have a choice. We get to do these things because we've chosen it for ourselves and we could choose not to do any of it and suffer the consequences from that, but it's all just a choice. So, yeah, so we got to.
Speaker 1:Good student versus checking off the boxes. Good student is actually just being with what is. Um, and people try to check off the box to control what is, to control what the truth actually is, versus just being with what is and making it mean something. Um. So, for example, I'll have clients and they're like I haven't got dates in like three weeks, four weeks, and then they make that mean something versus actually being with themselves in the midst of being visible with men or interacting with men, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It makes tons of sense, right, I can be with. I haven't had a date in three or four weeks and I can feel what do I have it mean and not be wrong for making it mean something. But maybe it means I'm lazy, or maybe it means that I'm unwilling. Maybe it means that I'm I don't know too masculine, whatever, whatever story somebody's saying and being with how that feels and asking myself okay, I know what that looks like and what that means. How else could I look at it? Can I just be with a disappointment that I don't have dates, or is it even disappointing? Do I even want to date and can I love myself even though I didn't go on dates?
Speaker 1:And what?
Speaker 2:does that look like? What would that require of me to do? Because it will require something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if we're, if we sit there and be present with it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely it's. It is going to ask something of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, we've been through the fire with me, we've worked together for two years and I've come out on the other side so much more. I feel super powerful, like I feel so, oh, like I can't even explain in words what you've helped prepare me for explaining words, what you've helped prepare me for um, and every day I'm so grateful for the investment girl, like people don't know, like paying for you was more than a mortgage every month. That was what. That was what 2200 a month. It was more than a mortgage. I was so. I was so like like I have to have it until I couldn't, no more, until Netflix was declining, but I was like, so invested, but I'm, I would, I would do it all over again. I would do it all over again because that is why I'm able to make such strong decisions now. That's why I trust myself now, because I got more work to do, but I have a lot more trust in my decisions. There will always be more work to do, yeah.
Speaker 2:You were at a place in your life where you were ripe and ready to do that kind of work. Like people might think to themselves wow, she was, it was the price of a mortgage not understanding that we were working together almost every day. It was every day, sometimes multiple times a day, because it was that level of tweaking that was required. Because when you're a high level or high achieving woman, there's so many things in your life that tell you you've got this that it takes you kind of going through the fine-tooth, going through your life with a fine-tooth comb to see where am I messing this up, where am I not seeing straight, where am I misguiding myself? You have to be in the trenches, like with that level of intensity, and not everybody's ready for that level of intensity.
Speaker 1:That's true, I remember you. You wrote on my post recently. You said you make the work look easy you do make it look easy.
Speaker 2:People think you know you make it look easy. It's not easy.
Speaker 1:I had a client say Tara, how do you, how do you, what's the tips to live the soft life? I'm like I ain't got no soft life. This is hard work.
Speaker 2:Well, one way is to want less. That's your tip Want less. I'm just saying you could want less. That would give you a soft life. I don't think it's what she meant. Yeah, that's not what she meant, but that is one way of getting there, yeah. And so what people are asking is how do I reap the benefits? How do I get to this place where I am just cared for?
Speaker 2:it's like, well, you outsource your power and then you can have that yeah, that's what you have to do, and there was a place where I was willing to do that listen, if I had somebody that I met that was willing to give me an allowance of 50 million a year, I might be able to do it too, for the right price. I say that because I think that there is a certain level of like.
Speaker 2:I'm ready to put all this down yeah, right, and then you get to do that and you get to do that, or I can put all of that effort into wanting to create a soft life Instead of creating the soft life, creating a super resilient human body that, no matter where I'm at, I've got me.
Speaker 1:I'm okay, even if the 50 million disappears. I'm okay, that's right. Yeah, that's what I want. That's what I want to continue to strive for. I want to continue to practice and be with myself and continue to be proud of the woman that I am and the choices that I'm making as a business owner, as a mom. You've even helped me with my son, like parenting him and having conversations. You've had conversations with my son. He's like hey, how's Catherine doing? Yes, right, so that's hey, how's.
Speaker 2:Catherine doing yes, right, because that's also part of the package, right, like if something were coming up for you with your team or you know, somebody you're in relationship with, or your son. It affects our work together, so. I would say to you okay, let's all connect, let's see what has to happen here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what am I?
Speaker 2:not seeing. When you're working with somebody, right, I see you, but I only see the version of you that shows up when you're working with me. I don't know the version of you that your son's going to talk about, or if I hear about your son through you, I only know the version of your son that you're showing me. I don't see him right, like separately.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and so that's really helpful in these kinds of work, like in working together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I'm about to be 38 this month.
Speaker 1:How does it feel I feel like well being 38 and being where I am. It feels amazing, it feels like an honor to be here. I feel extremely prepared and ready for my next journey. I know one of the biggest next steps that I'm making now is like, romantically is a big step, and then also business, wise for sure, making, continuing to making big steps there. So I'm just really proud of myself and I'm I'm proud of of what you bought to my life and and how you've helped me. And, of course, I'm still like a work in progress and I'm very pleased, or how I say I'm okay knowing that I'll be doing this work for the rest of my life. Sometimes I get clients on calls. It's like Tara, when will it end? When will it end? Like I'm just tired of this work. Like when will I get to the point where I need to be in online, baby? I'm still doing work.
Speaker 2:I usually get that question from people that are looking for a particular result, like external, circumstantial result versus the internal result.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always an external result and I can catch it in myself at times.
Speaker 2:And the thing is you can have an external result without the internal result, but it's very hard to have the internal result and not have some external results.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. Speaking of that, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I was going to say you're going to be 38. Like I am super proud of where you are at 38, my god, I would have killed to be where you are at 38, at 40, I was still asking stupid questions. I still had a certain level of codependence at that time that I didn't know how to shake. It took it, took some. It took some work and we all have different timelines, right.
Speaker 1:Speaking about work, before we end our conversation today, what do you wish more people knew about growth or working with someone through real life transformation?
Speaker 2:I think people think that this should be easy. I think people say to themselves oh, if my mom were just like this, or my dad were just like that, or I were born into a different family, or nobody has problems like mine. My problems are big problems. Everybody thinks they're special. Everybody thinks that what they're going through has a specific crux, and holding as many people as I've held I'm like everybody has their own cross to bear. Do I think that in the future, that may change, based on having more people modeling what it feels like to be free? I do think so. That's a possibility, but I don't know if that's going to happen in everybody's lifetime, in this lifetime, and so what I wish people knew were was you get freer? One practice at a time. Break down practice, one practice at a time. So wherever you feel stuck or like you're not free, you feel imprisoned in some way. Maybe you don't trust yourself, maybe you don't know how to communicate, maybe you lose your temper, maybe you people please, maybe you stay quiet, like whatever the thing is for you. One practice at a time is what helps you get freer. Not one book at a time, not one quote at a time. More knowledge is not going to get you there. It's helpful Like oh, I understand that.
Speaker 2:There were so many times in my life where I was baited for an argument that I thought I had no choice and you know what they called me in, so I went in. Now I understand why I did that. I'm a really great person to fight with, to argue with, and I get to choose right now if I want to do that or not. But that took awareness, that took oh, I can see that I'm getting baited. That wasn't just from the boundaries and attachments book that you just don't fight with people. It didn't come like that. It came from being held with another human. It came from Catherine. Do you see what you're doing? Do you see where the point of invitation was? Do you see where you could have chosen differently? It took reflection and I'm really grateful that I've chosen to be held and I would hope that more people choose that too. I don't. I haven't seen maybe you have I haven't seen people do alone what they can do with the village. I just haven't seen it?
Speaker 1:I haven't seen it. I haven't seen this kind of work period. Before I met you, Before I met you, it was books and knowledge and courses. I wasn't doing this kind of embodied work. I didn't know what embodied work looked like. And now and this is why I have you know, when I talk to my clients about treating dating as a spiritual practice, it is a practice. Dating is a practice because you have to, you are facing your patterns and a lot of people are like, oh yeah, I'm better when I'm not dating, when all they're doing is avoiding. They're avoiding the triggers.
Speaker 2:Well, there's no other person rubbing them? Yeah, right, there's no external response to their daily activities. There is no feedback. It's sort of like oh, I can sing a great song when I sing by myself. Yeah, there's no other vocal in the room. Well, yeah. Right and so you don't have to harmonize.
Speaker 1:They're not in practice. So then they never grow. And then they're like, oh, if I just read this book, if I just listen to Taurus podcast, if I just, if I just do these things and not actually be out in practice and willing, willing to get it wrong, willing to mess up, willing to not get the results. Everyone wants the results and everyone doesn't like. Everyone wants results, but not too many people are looking for the transformation.
Speaker 2:I would go as far as to say that you can have one without the other. I do think that a certain amount of your clients probably could get married and have no internal transformation Like dating is a practice, oh, absolutely. I remember going to a landmark course where somebody's like I want to get married and the woman or the teacher was just like, pick one, just pick one, and make it work like just pick somebody that's what.
Speaker 1:That's what when people were like, oh, I don't know where the men are at, I might go outside. Yeah, just pick this, pick one.
Speaker 2:You can just pick one so you can definitely have the relationship and you can have the transformation. They don't have to be together and I think it's important for people to know that, because the transformation work is hard work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you don't have to do that. You don't have to choose that route. You can choose just the relationship and be with someone that maybe doesn't tick off all your boxes or that you're like 50% happy with 50% of the time. It doesn't have to look like this the heavens parted and this is your person, this is your soulmate and you live and breathe for this person. It doesn't have to look that way, like you get to choose what you want, what level of relating you want, and put in the effort required to have the thing that you're looking for To be a yes woman. It doesn't require a lot of work, you just say yes.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh Not saying yes woman.
Speaker 2:Right, it doesn't require a lot of work.
Speaker 1:You just say yes and I agree. I agree. That's why I feel like different dating coaches serve different purposes. For sure, Because working with me, we're going to be practicing.
Speaker 2:I think that you have a belief system here, right Around transformation. Yeah, do you?
Speaker 1:want to say it out loud system here, right Around transformation yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you want to say it out loud? Well, my belief around transformation and dating yeah.
Speaker 1:I believe when you're willing to do this work in dating, it doesn't matter your relationship status at all. Like we talked about before, you are in a really good spot. You can love yourself there, you can be with yourself there, and if you are partnered and something happens within the partnership, you get your heart broken. You can still be open for more love. You don't just shut down and shut yourself out and go into years of hiding. If there's death or divorce, you know how to get back out there. You know how to get back open and stay open in order to have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can get the thing, maybe once, maybe twice, and it may cause you to have to self-abandon to have it, cause I've been there where I've got the thing, but I had to self-abandon the whole time. Right, I had to shrink Like that's what I had to do in order to maintain that. And so the reason why transformation in this work and treating dating like a practice, a spiritual practice, is that, no matter what, you are the most important person and you treat yourself like that and you can recreate whatever you thought you had with one person over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and, over and over. You can pass this down like an inheritance if you want to.
Speaker 1:That's an inheritance, like an inheritance Teaching your daughters this work right, Because I love when their kids see the modeling boundaries, when their kids see them in practice with men and not shrinking Like that rubs off on the kids.
Speaker 2:Because that is the way that we learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, we're telling our kids one thing but the kids are watching?
Speaker 2:Yes, because people are not learning from what you say. They're learning from what you do Exactly. We learned from what other people did Like. We learned all the codependence, all the self-abandonment, all those people pleasing, all the manipulation. We learned it from generations before us and we get to live a life and do it differently so that other people can see us model it. And that's how we change it. We don't change it one book at a time. We change it one action at a time. Every time you back yourself, every time you say this doesn't feel right, somebody else gets to see what's possible doesn't feel right, somebody else gets to see what's possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is so good I just have so many things to say, but we're already like, yeah, we're deep in here we're deep, we're deep in here and for those people listening like when I say she makes the work look easy. There would be a time when, potentially, we were working through something that was sort of stuck in her system and we would have like long calls three hour, four hour calls to get it unstuck. Whatever would take, it's that level of I'm in it.
Speaker 1:It's so funny because people look at me now and it's like they look at me like a unicorn, like I've always been like this. They're like I don't want to be like you with a girl, like like I just always been like this. They're like I want to be like you when I grow up, Like like I just woke up like this and I'm like, oh no, you don't get it. It's so much work that comes with this and I'm very, very proud of it. And, once again, thank you for being there, for holding space for asking the hard questions, space for asking the hard questions, for seeing me without making me feel small, and for reminding me who I was when I forgot, Because this version of me just didn't happen.
Speaker 1:She was built with tears, with choices, with action and a coach who held me through it all. So I want to thank you and for anyone listening, especially if you're in that place of fear or transition. You don't have to do it alone. You get to have support. That's a choice, right, there may be some sacrifices, some financial sacrifices that need to be made some time, some energetic, but you get to be her, one brave moment at a time. Would you like to close us out, Catherine, and share your last thoughts.
Speaker 2:I love that statement. One brave moment at a time you get to become her. It's true, it's one brave moment because it's so much easier to default to who you were. It's so much easier to say this is the way I was raised, this is the neighborhood I grew up in. This is why I'm this way. Look at all my trauma, look at my childhood. Look at my inner wounds. Look at all the reasons why I couldn't become the best and highest version of me, to be willing to put all the excuses down and say to yourself what's available to me right now? How can I love myself right at this moment and take action from there? That requires so much courage and, simone, you are a great testament to that work. I'm so proud of you and so happy to have had the pleasure and the privilege of walking life with you in this way.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Side note, it's so funny because I have clients like your name is Simone, it's not Torah for real. Simone's my government name, simone, it's not Tora for real. Simone's my government name, my real name is on the contract you signed. So that's interesting. But, like guys, if you've ever, if you ever get the chance to work with Catherine or even just sit next to her at lunch for lunch, like I hope you do, because women like her just don't coach, they change lives. So thank you, catherine, I love you so much. And thank you for coming to the show to give like a like a behind the scenes peek of my transformation and what it takes, what it takes to be in the position that I'm in right now. I just want to say thank you and I love you.
Speaker 2:I love you.
Speaker 1:Until next time. Oh, I absolutely love this episode and thank you for taking out the time to listen and to really sit in the conversation, and I was just so happy to be able to do that and share that piece of me with you. Catherine is an absolutely incredible human being. I have not met anyone else like her. She's changed my life, she's changed the lives of my friends, she's changed the lives of my clients. Without seeing her model power, I wouldn't have been able to sit in my own desire to have that kind of power and I also wouldn't be in a position to really be convicted to model that for other women, even when the world wants us to show up a little bit smaller or a little bit more performative or a little bit more compliant. So, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:If you love this episode, please, please, please leave a review, especially if, like if you haven't left one yet, especially for my birthday. Leave a review for my birthday. I'd absolutely love to know if you've left one. And, yeah, just slide in my DMs and let me know if you left a review. Share on your stories if it could help someone, or send it to a friend if you know it could help someone and I look forward to sharing more of my life and my journey with you. When it comes to, you know, business, personal, as well as my love life, super, super excited because I know I have a really exciting. You know it's going to be a little bit messy. I already know life is messy. I have that ahead of myself. So happy birthday to me. I'm so excited and until next time, bye.