Greater Things
A podcast about how faith fits with your everyday life. Matt interviews various speakers from around the globe and invites them to share their own experiences. For those who are asking big questions around faith, religion, church, and life.
https://www.greaterthingsinternational.com
Greater Things
Friendship is the foundation of true connection, not perfection.
Andrew Battistella, pastor of a church in Ballarat, Victoria, brings a refreshing authenticity to this profound conversation about creating communities where people can truly be themselves. Rather than presenting a polished facade, Andrew identifies first as a "friend" - someone who loves journeying with people around tables filled with good food and honest conversation.
The conversation explores what happens when we prioritize safety over perfection in our churches. His church vision crystallizes this approach: "To be a safe place for all people where they can be restored and revealed to His glory."
What makes this discussion particularly powerful is Andrew's willingness to share his own story. From experiencing rejection in his youth to navigating the complexities of family restoration, his journey has shaped his belief that authenticity heals. In perhaps the most striking revelation, he shares that every member of his church leadership team sees a counselor - a fact he proudly tells other pastors.
The dialogue delves into the three pillars Andrew considers "keys of the kingdom": authenticity, vulnerability, and transparency. While our culture often frames vulnerability as weakness, Andrew argues it's actually our natural state in God's economy. The conversation tackles the wisdom required to balance openness with appropriate boundaries, likening it to Jesus having his inner circle of three disciples.
By the end, a powerful truth emerges: perspective through the Father's heart changes everything. Rather than seeing God as a harsh judge, Andrew invites us to recognize Him as a loving Father creating "opportunity after opportunity for deeper relationship." This reshapes how we approach ministry, relationships, and our own brokenness.
Join us for this refreshingly honest conversation that might just change how you think about community, leadership, and what it means to create truly safe spaces where healing can flourish.
www.greaterthingsinternational.com
Today on the Greater Things Podcast I'm with a friend of mine. His name is Andrew Batterseller. He pastors a church down in a place called Ballarat in Victoria. He has been a friend to Trish and I now for a number of years, both he and his wife, mel, and we just had an awesome conversation around authenticity and vulnerability. Well, today on the Greater Things Podcast I've got a brand new guest, and this guest is a good friend to Trish and I. Andrew and his wife Mel come from the wonderful state of Victoria. They think they have the best coffee in the world and we'll let them think that. But, andrew, you and I have been hanging out, for we were trying to work it out. Probably it was pre-covid. It was pre-covid, yeah, and down in stairway church, uh, where you and I found ourselves sitting beside each other fairly often in the conferences that Bill Johnson would come across for, and often we'd sit at the end of a session of Bill and just go, wow, wow.
Speaker 2:I think we still go wow.
Speaker 1:We still go, wow yeah. But since those times COVID's been and gone and you and I have stayed fairly lightly connected through all that time until this year and having our daughter down there in that wonderful state of Victoria that thinks they have the best coffee in the world. We reconnected and I've had the joy and the privilege of actually speaking in your church. But, andrew, before we kick into it, how are you mate?
Speaker 2:I'm well, I'm well, I'm well. I don't have a cup of coffee, though I have a cup of tea with a teaspoon of honey at the moment. You can get prayer for that. I often pray for the people in our church that are drinking tea, and here I am drinking one I'm doing. Well, it's a heat wave here, it's 28 degrees. I don't. Well, it's a heatwave here, it's 28 degrees. You know, I don't know if you get weather like that where?
Speaker 1:you're from. Well, today in the sunny town of Sydney, it's going to be 35. And after this recording, Trish and I are going to head off to the beach.
Speaker 2:Nice, the beach the closest I'd get would be the lake up here.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful lake too, andrew, you've been a pastor for quite some time and I've met you as pastor, known you as pastor, but discovered you as just a brilliant friend. I wonder, just for the people listening, do you mind introducing who is Andrew Battistella Gosh?
Speaker 2:that's always a difficult question. I was sharing some thoughts with Mel because I think we default, I default. You know who's Andrew? Well, you know I'm a pastor and I'm a father. You know I'm a Western Bulldogs AFL, the only real football code lover. It's like coffee, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And the Swans You've got to add.
Speaker 2:the swans are there too right well, you know, I think that's just a token gesture by the afl just to get the other states involved. It's still a game. But half the people listening to the podcast in australia have just turned off. I know, they're just stubborn victorian.
Speaker 2:Um, oh gosh, I think I'm a friend. I believe I'm a friend. That's the type of person that I am Someone that loves to journey with people, coffee with people, talk with people, sit around on a table with lots of grazing type food, that sort of captures, I think, in an essence, who I am more than anything else, and that flows naturally into being a pastor, a husband, a father and all that sort of stuff. I love the catch up with the kids when we're around the table with food. I love the catch up with Mel when we're sitting down having a cup of tea or coffee and just chatting. And with my friends over coffee is always the best thing. Yeah, a friend, I think I'm a friend. And with my friends over coffee is always the best thing. Yeah, a friend, I think I'm a friend.
Speaker 1:Well, let me just testify to that too, because, again, from the moment we met at the conference, I had no idea that years later we'd be sitting and hanging out doing something like this, or even ministering in your church and just building friendship and relationship. That concept of friend for me is a very powerful one, because I too I love that space of friendship, connection and love. But you create safety, and that's something I've experienced over years. But having now dealings with the people that you minister to on a daily basis, I think safety is a strong marker of love and I think, mate, you carry it. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:So yeah, thanks, I'd say. And you still came back a second time. You met our eclectic bunch of people, which I say with great endearment. You know we are an eclectic bunch. We're certainly a hospital for the broken, which includes me. So, yes, I'll go with that. It sums it up well.
Speaker 1:Years ago a friend of mine called my church Dad's Army Nice. Do you remember that old show?
Speaker 2:I do. I'm old enough to remember that.
Speaker 1:That eclectic bunch of people that just how on earth are these people hanging out together? They're so rich and varied and so, yeah, so I've always held onto that phrase throughout all that I've done, because I actually embrace the concept that we can create communities that promote safety to people who come and hang out with them. And, mate, I tell you for Trish and I, that's exactly what we found at your church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, thank you. I think Mel and I have journeyed for many a year in the hope and in the belief and in the prayer that you know, as we pastor people, that our hearts would come front and centre and that's what people would grab onto, grab hold of, understand that it is a safe place. I mean, for lack of all the different words and for the many different words that people use all over the world for their visions and mission statements for the church. Ours is, I think, captures who we are to be a safe place for all people where they can be restored and revealed to his glory. You know, and God has taken that safe place for all people and every once in a while I question whether we should have made that our vision. Yeah, I can say that, yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes it's frightening, but we are called to love everyone and people just love to be loved.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, For me, the idea and again, this is what we met when we were there is the place of presence that you guys hold. So being present in the moment with people through whatever they're going through, and like I've sat with you and listened to the many people that ring you, call you, sit with you and want to be there in that place because it's a safe place but I think people get healed in safe places, mate and again, watching how your church operates, from the youngest all the way through to the oldest, there's this real sense of inclusion. There's a real sense of hope that you meet hope when you actually come into your church. Has that always been the case for you, mate? Oh?
Speaker 2:look, I think there's always been a really lovely spirit over this particular house. Mel and I began here, you know, almost 14 years ago. I think we shared some of the story with you and there's always been the I guess the wording that I would use there's always been a sense and a prophetic destiny over the house that we were a healing house. We just I think we're still learning what that means and the outworking of that. What does that look like for us? So some people do come and feel challenged by the surroundings. You know the different people and others come and go. Well, if they fit, certainly I can. So it's been a growing thing, but there's always God's hand has always been on that type of culture, atmosphere, presence, that place of safety where anyone can come to be restored and healed. Yeah, I think that's how I would answer it. Yeah, not always embraced by everyone, though.
Speaker 2:You know Christendom. You know sweeping general comments and commentary. You know a lot of Christendom want things primp and proper. You know they want particular things done in a particular way people to dress in a particular way, smell a particular way, act in a particular way, use particular language. And yet that's just not how it is. It's just not the way it's meant to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think it's the way it's ever been. I think the embracing of the unique is one of the aspects of loving a person, Like if you stand in front of a group of people and you tell them all that you love them. Those general sweeping statements might be true at some level, but real love is shown when you sit with them as well. Now I want to go back to your identity, piece of friend. How long have you identified as a friend?
Speaker 2:I think that's been. Some of it's been a journey, some of it's always been who I am. I've always been that person that enjoys a laugh and enjoys spending time with people. You know I'm one of those extroverted extroverts. I energise with people, so it was always easy for me to slip into some of that. But I think, as my relationship with the Lord has grown deep and matured, that has, you know, almost like you know, when you make cheese, that stuff that comes to the surface. It seems to be coming to the surface more and more.
Speaker 2:I just find myself constantly with people, broken for people being alongside people. You know, having people reach out, that I have forgotten. But somehow in our you know our crossing paths there's been something left that they wanted to follow up. You know, my daughter once said, because she's involved in ministry not here, but you know a whole bunch of stuff. And there was once upon a time when she was just travelling and doing lots of things and she said because I don't know a lot of people, I really don't know a lot of people. And she just said everyone knows you, is there anyone that you don't know? And I'm like I actually don't know anyone, but somehow our paths have crossed, so I think it goes a way back. But somehow our paths have crossed, so I think it goes a way back.
Speaker 2:I think it's part of the way that God created me. I think it goes even further back, to a gift actually, and just a memory now as we talk. You know I never had a problem making friends, but I had a problem with friends when I was at school, so much so that I would even say there was a season, you know, around the years 7, 8, 9, 10, yeah, something around that, where there was a sense of being alone, and I reckon that were the years that I actually cried out to God. To be honest, that brought me to my place of connection with him, was crying out to him in those moments, and I think part of that relationship with him, part of that journey, was he's restored and given back the years that the locusts had eaten to be honest, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:I love that those memories come up for you as well, because again, when those sorts of things come to the surface to me, that's God showing you. This is how far back I've been healing you, bro, and this is where restoration has gained its momentum. Now, having sat at tables and grazed with you and listened to stories, restoration's also been a very powerful part of your story as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm one of those broken pieces that God decides to use Like gosh. Yeah, what a journey. Don't know what to share, how much to share, man.
Speaker 2:Wow, when I came to the Lord, when I officially came out of the closet you know, sorry, had to do that when I came out as believing in Jesus, I had a whole group of friends that I was shunned by. You know that I was shunned by, you know. But even in moving into relationship with people, with girls, I had a group of friends that said well, you make your mind up, you're either going to have a relationship with her or with us, but you can't have both. Wow. And yeah, there's lots of little bruising along the way.
Speaker 2:You know, I think God's taken all of that and restored all of that. He's restored the friendships that were stolen. He's shown me that in making a decision for him, though, the ultimatum looks better on the other side that's not always the case if you just trust him and keep moving forward with him. You know, having been through and I share it openly at church being through a broken marriage and having God restored a new one many years later, having my wife, who is unwell, you know, at the moment. Over the last couple of years and journeying through that, there's been lots of little hits here and there having a daughter that was estranged from us and then, for whatever reason I mean God's intervention, but the way that he did, it was really so very sweet to have her back into our lives with all the other children and actually being the main instigator for family. There is just really this story upon story that can be unpacked, where God has restored things that felt smashed. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I have a belief that the things that we walk through are the things that God has given us authority in and restoration of family. Now I've met three of your children, that's three of the five. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and each of those three that I've met carry grace. Like you can't fake that sort of stuff, like I only met Faith a couple of times when we were down at Stairway, met Faith a couple of times when we were down at Stairway. But grace is something that that girl walks in and walks powerfully in and you can sense it long before she even talks or even speaks. And then meeting the two boys and watching Sam lead worship and the things that he does, and sensing Nathan's spirit, you can feel the grace in your children. Now you might minimise that of going how good are they? But I think that's a generational effect of the authority that you walk in that's invited them into that place. How do you feel about that, mate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, gosh, thank you. Yes, it's certainly the hand of God. Over the last couple of years two years max, maybe the last year I've had this phrase enter my vocabulary more and more, particularly in and around our family and our kids and our journey, and it was simply this God has been far better to me than I could ever imagine and that I ever deserve. I'm only worthy because he's found me worthy. And the goodness of God in you know, when you have a relationship break up and some of the kids are scattered, and then to see them brought back together under you know, a different roof, so to speak, over years and watching them walk with the Lord, watching them serve the Lord, god has been by far better to me than I ever deserve. Yeah, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:On to restoration. I want to add the word hope, then, because it sounds like you've always carried it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm naturally a glass half full person, but I do have a tendency to let's use the language I like to add commentary. Mel would say that I like to be critical in areas, but generally speaking, I I am a glass half full, but that's a to be honest, that's a constant wrestle because I very, very naturally lean to the opposite side of that. That's the way my family you know family of. That's the way my family you know family of heritage. That's the way that they run. Where things aren't, glass is half empty. So it's very easy to become critical rather than hopeful. You know despondent rather than full of, you know full of hope. So I'll run with that just because I'm thinking of family, thinking of home, thinking of, you know, parents and that environment. Yeah, I've always been a person of hope, but it is one of you know how sometimes you've just got to choose. Choose you this day, who you will serve. Sometimes it's that and I don't always win that battle, matt. I don't always win that fight.
Speaker 1:For everyone listening. This is one of the reasons why I love this man, because of his authenticity and honesty inside of his own walk, and so often, mate, you and I have been in Christian environments where the person at the front presents something that's so brilliant and they have a family that's so amazing that you just sit there and go. I'm not even worthy to put my story up against that story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love your authenticity.
Speaker 2:Look, the one thing that I can do to the dismay literal dismay of some of the past family here is I'm quite happy to air my stuff, my brokenness, because I know that what it does is it actually invites people into a deeper walk with the Lord. Because if that's him and he's supposed to be the pastor, well then there's hope. If they're his kids and he's telling those stories about them, then there's hope for our kids. You know, I did have someone say a long time ago now, it's quite funny, we're still friends. They no longer live in Ballarat. I'll use that as the excuse for why they're no longer part of our family here. I said once Andrew, that's just enough story, that's just enough of your brokenness, we need more of Jesus. Well, there was always Jesus. I was just showing the areas that he could walk into and walk with you, where he could walk with you.
Speaker 1:But isn't that what we need, more of mate.
Speaker 2:Oh look, absolutely you know. I don't know about yourself, but certainly where I grew up and you know, and not matured in my faith. What's that saying? It's just on the tip of my tongue. The older I get, the more I forget words. You know where I is it not sharpen my teeth? There's a saying along those lines. Anyway, doesn't matter, someone out there will know, you'll get this little. When the podcast is on, you'll get this. He meant this, but oh yeah, I'm certainly getting old. Go back to your question.
Speaker 1:Having communities that are built on authenticity surely that's the goal.
Speaker 2:I'm tired of the fake it till you make it. Yep, I think there is certainly for us. As Christians, we walk in victory. You know, for some of us we've sung the old songs. You know the battle is won by lifting Jesus high, you know, and all that sort of stuff you know. So we walk in that victory.
Speaker 2:But sometimes it doesn't feel like it, and you know, I know we don't want to hear everybody's story all the time. If you're a church of 50 or a family of 10 or one of 200, and every time you ask someone, say how was your week? And all you get is the struggle. Sometimes that could be draining on yourself, but you need to be able to be authentic and say, actually, it's just been a tough week, really, yeah, and I really do hate it and I try not to be that person when someone's in a difficult time, just to recite scripture like it's the recipe and once I finish these words, then that'll be the perfect meal and you'll be healed. Um, I, we have to embrace who we are. How does a christian with mental health issues, how do they journey when we're supposed by his stripes would mean healed? How does someone who struggles with depression but calls himself a lover of Jesus. How do they, how do they articulate that openly and safely, when we're supposed to be, you know, a people that are living the abundant life, and it's the joy of the Lord, that's our strength, you know. It is a part of church that I think the enemy I won't say it's the church, I think the enemy has effectively stolen from us, not this generation, the generations I know.
Speaker 2:One of the words that you use at Greater Things and you minister in and around is that word shame. And shame has so robbed people of the ability of just being true to who they are and where they're at and what their struggles are. God won't take. I don't believe God will take and heal stuff when we're not willing to let it go and if we're not willing to share it, then he can't take it. If we need to bring the darkness to the light, for the darkness to flee, and sometimes we, all of us, because of shame, we actually hold on to these things and we keep a secret between us and god and we keep praying and asking for healing and we wonder why he doesn't take it, but we hold onto it with two hands and no one else is there to walk through it with us and we don't seek any advice or help. And we wonder why? Yeah, no, authenticity is gosh, it is gold. It is a weapon for God to bring healing and restoration.
Speaker 1:I actually call it one of the keys of the kingdom. It's those places where and I love how you talk about the idea of bringing things to the light when Adam and Eve sinned or took the fruit, they hid. And I think it's such a great feature of humanity when I say great feature, it's such a feature of humanity is, when we do something wrong, we hide because we fear punishment rather than understand restoration. And may we be communities of people that leave condemnation and judgment at the door. And if we do judge, we're simply judging as a friend. We're not judging by their ability to sin or do things worse than we think that they should.
Speaker 1:And that, to me, is the essence of who Andrew actually is the willingness to walk with. And so when we come across people who their life is, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard. What I found really unique is when they are willing to ask how my life is going. We then can do relationship and we can walk through those moments. But when a person is not willing to listen, then relationship is not born, it's not grown, it's not there. And this is where, for me, the kingdom of God flourishes in these places where relationship, connection is promoted, and that starts from these things like the key of the kingdom, one of them being authenticity, I think. Another one is vulnerability, and I think you carry that one in spades.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'll go there. They're the three words vulnerability, authenticity and transparency. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the three words. It's gold, easy or hard, mate. Hard, it's not easy, it's hard and yet it's easy, and I think the more we walk in those things. It's like for those that are watching the podcast it's hard. It's like going to the gym. No one likes going. To be honest, very few like going to the gym, but eventually they go there enough where they love it.
Speaker 2:The point is, because I don't like the gym, I think people get hurt in gyms. The only gym there should be is gyms mowing. But the more you exercise, the more you do things and exercise those muscles, the easier it becomes, and I do think that authenticity is one of those things where you know there needs to be wisdom. You can't share everything with everyone. There are some people you would know in Christian ministry, particularly leading a church for many years that if you let people too close the wrong people or not the right people, not the right time really is probably a better way to put it, because it's not that they're the wrong people or not the right people, not the right time really is probably a better way to put it, because it's not that they're the wrong people, it's just not. It's too early for them and they see who you are, they hear of your struggles, they see a little bit of you that they weren't expecting and it's enough to rock their faith. So it's a gift from God, because it's a delicate balance.
Speaker 2:I think that's why even the Lord, as he brings new and fresh revelation, he doesn't do it all at once. He does it over a period of time, as our heart is ready to receive it and to wrestle with it and to flesh it out and see what does that mean for me and I think, our own authenticity and transparency and vulnerability with people. There are some that will just gravitate to it, but there are some, a little bit like Jesus with the three, that are just in that little bit closer. But I think the more I journey in that space, the more vulnerable and transparent and authentic that I am. I'm always authentic. I should take that back. I'm always authentic, even to the language that I use and to the despair of many. But I just think there's a wisdom in it as well. You know, there's something that God's teaching us in that, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I don't have an answer for it, but I just know there are some places I feel really safe with you. So I don't mind laying not just some of it, I don't mind laying all of it at the table, and then someone else will come into the room and I won't be not authentic, but I'll place only this much here and be vulnerable to help them connect with God. You know, and as we grow and walk in maturity, then they get to see more and more of me, because I'm not hiding it, I'm just not sharing it all with everybody all of the time. I don't know if any of that makes any sense at all. This is a recording. Just go back. Why? What was the question?
Speaker 1:This is authenticity mate. What was the question? This is authenticity, mate. Well see, what I'm hearing, though, is that you share unique relationships with people you don't generalize, and standing in front of churches, at times, you can easily generalize your relationship with all the people there, but you know as well as I do, as soon as you step away from that bulwark, there's relationships inside the room, all over the place, and some of those can deal with the fruity language and others cannot. Fruity's good.
Speaker 2:Fruity's good.
Speaker 1:Well, part of, see, part of when I say is it easy or hard this authenticity and vulnerability and transparency? I think it's hard because our culture has defined it as hard and or even a weakness if we go into those places. But I actually think we were created to be vulnerable, to be transparent, to be authentic, which in the kingdom. To me, that means it should be easy, because that should be our design, but our culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the shame culture, isn't it? And we teach people to hide their mistakes rather than to own them or to allow us to heal from them.
Speaker 2:Oh, look, and language, look, particularly if you're being vulnerable about hurt some of your struggles. You know the moments where you're quite happy remaining in bed all day, even though you're supposed to be at work or at school. You know, I'm just gonna hang out here because I don't have energy for anything else. You can share that with someone and and that person makes a decision there and then how they're going to receive that. And we do live in a culture that often the retort would be well, you know, seems like you need a cup of cement to harden up, you know, or whatever the saying might be.
Speaker 2:I had a conversation once and I was just sharing, because my wife's diagnosed in medical burnout where almost I don't know, past a year and a half, 20, 20 months or more. So the church knows this, so I'm not sharing anything out of school. But I was sharing that with somebody because they were asking what, what's it like? What are some of the symptoms of that? You know, how does it affect her? And their words were oh gosh. Well then, I've been in burnout too, but I just made a decision that I would just, I would just do stuff, and so all your wife has to do is just do stuff, and then she'll realise she can, and then she won't be in burnout. And that's where I come out with my fruity language, like how stupid can you be and still breathe? So yeah, it's that it is a wrestle, because it is very natural and easy in the kingdom, because it's a place of safety.
Speaker 2:But in our culture sometimes there's a lack of safety and sometimes it's just a lack of understanding. People can actually have it all together and yet be broken, which is an oxymoron in itself. But someone can have their life and they could be living it swimmingly. But there's brokenness and we continue to push broken brokenness down. My old pastor had a great saying you know, you tan guy joe and he used to say at the end of the day, if you don't deal with that brokenness, that stuff, if you don't share, it's just like sweeping it under the carpet and eventually you're going to make it a mound big enough that you're going to trip over it. You know, but yet that is what our culture prefers, if we were just sweeping under the carpet. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:When I first sat on a counsellor's couch, my life was an absolute mess, and tears and snot and all those sorts of things are a part of the weekly process. She said to me. She gave me this metaphor. She said, matt, it's trying to hold ping pong balls under the water in a bathtub. If you've only got three or four balls in the bathtub, you can hold them out. She goes, matt, you've got hundreds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I couldn't and like eventually it's just like yep, they're all here. Um, and so it's. And she said to me then I'm going to give you an invitation.
Speaker 1:She said in the next six months, you will learn more about yourself than you will in 10 years if you, if you, try and keep doing the same things that you're doing. It was a massive challenge and it was very hard. It was one of the hardest things to walk through and all these years later, I can speak lightly about it, I can laugh about it, but at the time it was six of the darkest months of my life to engage with the very things that had caused me to be the person that I was and gave me opportunities then to heal from that place, and brokenness was a phrase that I would have readily used back then, but I found over time mate, jesus doesn't see me broken. He sees me as broken, yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely he does. I totally agree, absolutely. Yeah, I just agree. Yeah, I just agree, don, I just agree. I love going to Mel and I still go to it because we're fortunate to have a local Christian counsellor that I've spoken to you about. We often go and see Mike and often it's in tears and often it's in laughter. Gosh, there was one point in time in our church I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, it's just for me it is a wonderful picture that every single person on our oversight or our board or whatever you want to call it, every single one of them, was seeing Mike, every single one. I still think to this day. That was like I won't call it the glory days because I think we're women reasonably well, but it was just like, ah, that's just awesome. I loved sharing that with the other pastors of other churches that everyone on our oversight was going to see the local counsellor. You know, because we're all wrecked, yeah.
Speaker 1:See, even that says something to me about you, because it shows how much you value the wisdom of others. And for the entire leadership team of your church to go. Actually, we can see the value in this, because we we know that andrew has value on it and, before you know it, your whole oversight team is gaining wisdom from sources that are not just themselves, and allowing that then to be something that moulds you. Yeah, amen.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what you know how. You just like to put a little exclamation mark and a smiley face at the end of something. We had so many people from our church going to see Mike that they just mentioned our church and so they got a ministry discount. Oh gosh, I love that. Well, you don't got a ministry discount. Oh gosh, I love that. Oh, you don't get the ministry discount. Oh, that's terrible.
Speaker 1:We do. I might have to come down to Ballarat more often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I do love it. I love stirring up some of our my pastor friends. You know, um, you know I I do build relationship with people and, um, some of them, they all buy. We will buy our coffee, not all of us. We buy our coffee from a local guy and he's a great guy, but, um, I'm sure he's not watching because it could change overnight. But he gives me things cheaper than anyone else, and so there's a couple that I just love to say oh really, oh, that's terrible. He doesn't do that to me.
Speaker 1:You've got to keep it real Well, mate. We're just about at the end of our time. I'm wondering if there's anything on your heart that you'd like to drop on the listeners, like if there's something that you felt like God's been stirring even in the last bunch of time that we've been chatting, or you feel like God's got on you at the moment.
Speaker 2:I'm learning that God's teaching me at the moment that perspective is everything, and particularly perspective through his eyes. Yet we can't, I don't think I can, I don't think we can fully understand all of his workings until we understand his heart and his love for us. And I'm not going into preaching mode, I'm certainly not doing that, but for whatever reason, I've been playing with Romans of late. You know a book full of judge, this, judge, that judge, dread, judge, duty judge. Everything you know, and just more and more.
Speaker 2:God is just showing me the enormity, just the immense love that he has for us. And being able to understand who he is from his father's heart changes the dynamic of all of that particular book, all of what we have grown up and been taught in church about God's judgment. He truly is a loving father that wants to walk with us. And so often Christians don't share stuff with people because, yes, because of shame, but fear as well of the repercussions, of what people may think, what people might say, that they may be cut off, that God himself may be disappointed. And yet I'm just learning, even through that particular book, that he actually waits there with open arms, creating opportunity after opportunity for us to walk into a deeper relationship with him. So, um, perspective, father's heart, um just changes everything, I think the way we deal with people, the way that we speak, the way that we preach, the way that we don't drink tea and coffee instead proper coffee from victoria, all of that come on, mate, we'll show you what real coffee tastes like.
Speaker 2:So should I bring my little coffee machine from home for the drive, just in case I've got to run outside the shop and plug mine in and get a little shot?
Speaker 1:You're always welcome to mate. We take ours wherever we go.
Speaker 2:I did tell you about the one that I bring on, the drive that plugs into the lighter, didn't I?
Speaker 1:You did you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll bring that just to show you. I'll be most interested. Mate, thanks so much for your time. I know we've already chatted. I've asked you whether you'd do another session with me, with Trish and I and Mel and yourself, just to talk about marriage, and we'd love to tee that time up and I'm sure there'll be a bunch of people listening who would gain a lot of wisdom from listening to how you guys do life laughter marriage.
Speaker 2:Well, I would love to do that, and you know what the brilliance is of that. Then you're going to see vulnerability and authenticity, because you're going to see where I stuff up everywhere over the last 22 years and by the grace of God and Mel, we've been held together. So they'll just say, gosh, she's an amazing woman. Yes, she is.
Speaker 1:It's very true she is. She absolutely is Well, mate. Thanks so much for your time today. It's just been a real joy to have you on the podcast. I'm sure that the conversation we've had will bless many, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:I've enjoyed being a part of it. Look forward to the next one, absolutely, and catching up again soon over real coffee here done.
Speaker 1:Well for everyone else listening. This is the greater things podcast. If you've enjoyed this and you'd like to sow into the work that we do, there's a little link on the bottom that says buy me a coffee. You can help us do more of these types of things. For those of you guys who are supporting us, I just want to say a massive thank you, and we will be back in your ears sometime soon. Bye, for now. You can find us on Facebook, instagram and YouTube.