Greater Things
A podcast about how faith fits with your everyday life. Matt interviews various speakers from around the globe and invites them to share their own experiences. For those who are asking big questions around faith, religion, church, and life.
https://www.greaterthingsinternational.com
Greater Things
Authenticity, Friendship, and Finding God in Life's Raw Moments with Gavin Fuller
What does it mean to truly be seen? To strip away the facades and connect with others in raw authenticity? Gavin Fuller, videographer, storyteller, father of five, and self-described "friend of Jesus," joins me for a conversation that will challenge how you think about identity and relationships.
Gavin takes us into his imaginative prayer life, where he flips the famous Biblical question "Who do you say that I am?" back to Jesus, asking "Who do YOU say that I am?" The answer—"You're a friend"—becomes the foundation for how he approaches every relationship in his life. This identity as "friend" shapes his extraordinary capacity to care for others, remember faces, and maintain emotional connections across years and distances.
We explore the concept of marriage as "a city on a hill" characterized by authority balanced with love, and how the Fuller family dinner table becomes a communion table—a sacred space where authentic conversations unfold. Gavin shares his approach to drawing people into deeper connection by noticing conversational threads and creating safe spaces for vulnerability.
Perhaps most profound is our discussion of Eden—how we weren't designed for platforms and polished perfection, but for the beautiful mess of the garden. Gavin's refreshing honesty about family life, marriage struggles, and the joy found in everyday moments offers a compelling vision of what it means to experience paradise in our ordinary lives.
For anyone feeling lonely, powerless, or hopeless about the future, this conversation offers a practical pathway forward through authenticity and connection. Learn how paying attention to the "open threads" in your conversations might create the very Eden you've been searching for.
https://www.youtube.com/@GavinFuller
www.greaterthingsinternational.com
In this episode of the Greater Things Podcast, I'm with a brand new guest. His name is Gavin Fuller. He is a great friend to both Trish and I, and this man carries authenticity and love, and just to have a conversation with him makes my life a whole lot better. Hope you enjoy it. Well, today on the Greater Things Podcast, I'm with a brand new guest, but he's a good friend of mine as well. Very good I am with the Gavin Fuller.
Speaker 2:How are you, mate, the only one Going good, going good, and hello to everybody watching. And Matt, what a pleasure, what a pleasure to have a chat with you any moment, but knowing that's being recorded, I can't get away with lying anymore. I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I've always loved about you, mate from the day that I met you to this very day that we've had a great conversation even before we hit record is the authenticity that you walk in. It captured me on the YouTube videos that you have been doing now for a while and it just drew me in to. I want to understand and know this guy at a far greater level. So, mate, just welcome, great to have you here and looking forward to everything that's about to happen from this point on.
Speaker 2:Same here. Same here. Lead me. Go Ask Do the things? Let's be authentic and raw and inappropriate together.
Speaker 1:Good, good, I just have to check a few boxes when I'm publishing it. There's inappropriate, so Cut, Cut it out. Cut so mate. The question that I ask most people when they jump into a session like this with me, particularly the first session, is the question of who is Gavin Fuller, Mate? How would you answer that question?
Speaker 2:First up, that is obviously a very hard question to answer and it changes To be shallow from a shallow. I could go as deep as we want as a shallow answer. I'm a Christian. Yay, happy answer. I'm a dad. No, I'm a husband. Before I'm a dad. I'm a husband to a beautiful wife, Natalie Fuller. She is amazing. I'm a dad to five kids a boy who's now 13 years old and four girls every two years under that I'm 47, so I've got small kids.
Speaker 2:A little bit later on in life, I'm a videographer, a storyteller, a creator. So that's the top-level stuff. That's stuff that I am and do every day. Uh, but to go a little bit deeper, um, I let me just quickly just give me like 10 seconds to say this is going to be longer than 10. Um, I, you know the scripture where Jesus says who do you say that I am? To his disciples?
Speaker 2:I often put myself up because I'm a narrative guy, a narrative storyteller. I put myself in those Bible stories and I have often put myself in that Bible story with Jesus and I've just imagined that conversation ending. Who do you say that I am? You are the Christ, the Son of the living God, and all the disciples say it. But then in my Hollywood brain I make the disciples walk away and then it's just me and Jesus and I say can we have the conversation again? And he says who do you say that I am? Who do people say that I am this, this, this, this? But who do you say that I am? You are the Christ, the son of the living God. And then I imagine this vacuum of time between the two of us where Jesus still looks at me after I've given that answer and then I say to him who do you say that I am? And I let myself feel that moment Because we often ask that, God, who am I, God? Who am I in worship God? Who am I? All the things? And we know that we find who we really are in Jesus. But for me to imagine myself sitting there while all the disciples have walked away and actually say who do you, Jesus? Who do you say that I am?
Speaker 2:And all the cliche answers don't really hit um, and I've because I've done it, I do the exercise quite often who am I today, god? Who do you tell me? I don't change, like all the things, but that's, who do you say that I am jesus? And I'd have to say he just would say you're a friend, right? That that's again a cliche answer, but it's actually really deep, yeah, and I don't want to theologically unpack it. Let me emotionally unpack that If I'm a friend to this guy, then I am so loved and I am so cared for, I am cared about by Jesus, and that really does change who we are on the fundamental, deep level. And if that's the truth and I can go a bit shallow again then everybody's asking that same question Jesus, who do you say that I am? And that changes everything about what he says.
Speaker 2:So what does Jesus say? That I am A cheeky Australian. Yes, Agreed, I'm a carer. If Jesus would say you're a carer, You're cheeky, you are a feeler, you are a shepherd because I know that that's what Jesus makes me, has made me. You're a creator. I think we all are, but you are a creator, you are my friend, all that stuff, but you are also a friend.
Speaker 2:And if Jesus says that about me, all that stuff, but you are also a friend, and if Jesus says that about me, all that stuff, then I want to be that, I want to be exactly who that is. I want to be a carer. I want to be a feeling person. I want to feel. I want to be a cheeky Australian because I have fun doing that. I want to be inappropriate as fun Not that that's who Jesus made me, but he's fun.
Speaker 2:And I want to be fun too. But I want to be real because he's real and I want to be honest and raw and throw caution to the wind with all the protect yourself around. Throw all that to the wind and just say, Jesus, this is who you've made me. I want to be that. I want to be emotional, I want to be caring, I want to feel things. I want to be available to be a friend to every person. I want to be that shepherd, but I want to be your friend and I want to be everyone else's friend. That's such a bad answer. If we weren't recording this, I'd probably say it differently, but no, I wouldn't. I'd say it exactly how. I just said it, because I don't care. Cut it out if you want. Edit that down to two minutes. I challenge you.
Speaker 1:I want to explore that statement around the concept that Jesus calls you friend, because, again, that's the idea of connection and relationship and, knowing you like I do, connection and relationship are two very important parts of your DNA. I've watched you do that as a husband, I've watched you do that as a father and I've had the personal privilege of watching that happen. As a friend, you are a listener, so you are engaged willingly with a person to unpack their story, and I love the concept of you sitting there with Jesus and using your imagination to create an opportunity for a conversation to occur that lands in the place of identity. It's one of the most beautiful forms of prayer that I've come across is allowing my mind, my imagination, to come alive in a place of sitting with Jesus and to hear the one who walked the earth 2,000 years ago sit with you and say I'm actually calling you friend. And so when you hear Jesus calling you friend, you look at his characteristics now that are being poured out into you, and they are ones of compassion, empathy, care, comfort, love.
Speaker 1:All of these great things that we, all of us, desire on the planet is being poured out in this one word of friend, and that's why the word friend for you is such a laden word, with so much connection, so much emotion, so much feeling, that when you say it, when you speak it, there's nothing shallow about that. It's actually the friendship that you offer to Christ. But also the friendship that you have offered to me is not to sit in the shallows of. So what happened with the sport on the weekend? Matt, you want to know how I'm actually going, and that's what the word friend has done to you. It's like giving you a shovel, and so we're going to dig a little deeper today and see where this thing goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, friend, friendship, yes. And here's the thing yeah, I've been a Christian since I was 15 years old, so I'm nearly 50. It's been a while, I'd have to say, not every day, but a lot of my prayer life is like God. Let me feel what you feel, even if it's sad. Let me see what you see. Let me notice what you notice, and I'm a videographer so I'm always doing that on camera as well. Even if I'm filming somebody a corporate, boring thing, let me see what you see in this person. I don't know if that's a shepherd thing, but it's just what I do. It's what I do and I love doing it, and I deliberately look for those things. And here's the thing is that I care about people.
Speaker 2:My wife is constantly saying it is creepy that you remember people's faces Because I do. Her dad said something to me years ago. Tell me if I'm going in the wrong direction here, but her dad said something to me years ago. I was in a pub with Nat's dad years ago and people were coming up to him and saying, hey, andy, how are you going? And coming up to him and saying, hey, andy, how you going? And I said to him everyone always remembers you, andy, why is that? And he said, uh, he's a Christian guy. And he said, uh, I don't know, I just every time I meet somebody, I just, instead of looking about what's wrong with them because everyone does that he said I just look what I like about them. And then I remember that and that so resonated with me, not resonated, it just hit me. I was just like, so easy to find out what's wrong with everyone. It's so easy to find out what's wrong with ourselves, but to find out what's right with someone and ask myself, instead of what's wrong with me, what's right with me, I look for what's good about people. That stuck in my brain forever, andy. And so I will always find something that I really like about somebody, even if they're really hard to like. I will find something I really like and then that makes me care about them. I've already asked God to show me, but it makes me care about them. So I genuinely care about them.
Speaker 2:Most of the people I meet and I mean I've done pastoral ministry before. I've done ministry in different forms. I've been out and about in the world doing creative things for 30 years and I think about most people from my past more often than I probably should, because I'm always wanting to have prayed for them. I'm always wanting to know how they're going. I'm always reaching out to people on Facebook. Now I've got a.
Speaker 2:I still haven't worked out my boundaries around that in that I spend a lot of time thinking and praying about people from 20 years ago who I haven't seen for 20 years, 30 years, 15, 10, 5. And I will be looking at my kids and playing with the kids on the floor and a person comes to mind and I'm thinking about them and straight then and there I'm like God, bless that person. I don't even know if they're still alive, but bless them anyway. Sometimes I can't get a person out of my head, so I just message them.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about you today. I don't know why Do you need prayer, not even that I. I don't know why Do you need prayer, not even that. I'm thinking about you, that's it. Hey man, I'm thinking about you today, no idea why, but I am, and then often they'll come back. Can you pray for this? Or it's not a Christian person, thank you, thanks for caring about me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going through a really hard time. All right, all right. Do you want to talk about it or not? No, okay, well, I'm here if you need it. It's the open threads, I think. And for you, obviously I care about you and Trish and your kids, even though I've not met some of them. Your little drummer son come on, that's awesome. I think about him. I don't know why. I just pray for him anyway, pray for people I've never met.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I just think like I care about people. Do I care too much? I don't know. Can you care too much about people? I don't know.
Speaker 2:But if I'm asking God, show me what you feel, let me feel what you feel, let me see what you see, then I'm going to do that and not stop myself and really feel it, so that I can be there in that person, sympathize for some, empathize in some situations and sometimes just sit there and shut my mouth and just let the presence of God come between me and the vacuum of this person and let him do whatever he wants to do. If I'm literally available in a room and I have no idea what to say, I just go. God's going to do something. He cares more than I care, but I do care. So, god, do what you want to do Anyway, and then unpack.
Speaker 2:People say don't unpack the can of worms. Nah, do that, it's fun, unpack the can of worms and then be there to help that person understand or feel. Feel those can of worms with somebody and sometimes just go well, that's messed up. Sometimes people just need to hear that that sucks, let's have a coffee, let's get another coffee, you know? Yeah, and then just be there.
Speaker 1:Anyway, take me somewhere else, matt, because I could talk about this for you well, there's a few things inside of what you're saying that I really I know like a lot the idea of caring too much or caring too little. I know which side of the coin I would like to land on more often than not. Right, because I think the caring more this is something that for me, it ties in so much with the character and nature of Christ. Right, that dude gets out of a boat and he feels so much emotion for people the Bible says it's stirred deeply within him he decides to go and feed 5,000 of them Like may there be more times where we move so deeply inside of our bodies that the things that come out of us are the miraculous values of Christ in the ways that we love the people that surround us. And let that be the side of the coin that we actually land on rather than have I cared enough or have I cared too little?
Speaker 1:Because I wonder at times, even with the concept of being a Christian in this day and age, that sometimes going outside of what I think or what I feel or what I should do becomes a scary place for some Christians. But we need those who are, just like yourself, stirred deep inside to step into a place where that can of worms that you want to open up, like some people just need their story witnessed, they just need it to be spoken so that you can sit there and go, like you say that sucks, that is just so hard. They don't need a theological monologue of what needs to happen in that space. What they need is the person who loves well to sit with them in that time to say, hey, I'm actually not going to leave, I'm actually going to hang out in this space and to me that's Christ-like. I'm not going to leave you nor forsake you. Is what the Bible said.
Speaker 1:But so often as Christians we go oh, I don't know if that I can't and we make up every reason under the sun not to stay present, stay connected with a person, like you say, who just needs a story witnessed Now, just to take us into that sort of idea of eyes to see and ears to hear. So again, you have eyes to see and ears to hear. It's a very biblical concept that Jesus is actually wanting for us to look beneath the surface, as Jesus would say. When you look beneath the surface at Nat now you've already said she's an amazing wife, brilliant person, all that sort of stuff. I want you to look beneath the surface and tell me who is Nat Fuller.
Speaker 2:Who is Natalie Fuller fuller. Who is natalie fuller? Um, she is a beautiful child of god, yeah. Uh, she is a strong and very faithful, noble human being. Yeah, she is a deeply passionate mother and she is a really faithful wife. She is fun and she is. She is fun and she is forthright. She's a very forthright person, yeah, but she is a noble, noble royal woman of God, I would say. And, yeah, she is a very lucky woman to be with me.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, I'll get her take on that, no, don't.
Speaker 2:He's here feeding me lines. Stop now.
Speaker 1:So here's a thought we're sitting with one who is known as friend of Jesus, married to one who is a noble, passionate, just brilliant human right. Think about the marriage Eyes to see and ears to hear. What's God presenting in the marriage of Gavin and Nat Ooh?
Speaker 2:A city on a hill, a kingdom, a kingdom Authority and love, I think that's. Yeah, I could sit on the. I'm going to journal this tomorrow morning Authority, friendship, love, but publicly be out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A city on a hill is. I mean that encapsulates a lot of stuff, but, yeah, a couple that is seen by God, but also he wants them to be seen by everyone and that's good, yeah, dangerous and exciting, and uh, yes, god yeah, what I love about this is you've started somewhere and your mind is creating a picture of what, what is not, not what can be, but what is.
Speaker 1:I love the idea of authority and love. Authority without love is just control, nothing. And I think there are too many relationships that exist, even in the Christian world, so, hey, I'm the head of the home or she's the head of the home, right, like if there's no love in that. That's just control as to whatever that looks like. But I love what you shared, like you start in the place of authority and love. Then you go into this place of city on a hill and it's a picture that builds and grows inside of your mind and I'm guaranteeing you when you journal this tomorrow, it won't be just 15 sentences, it's going to be 1500 words sort of thing of what does this union, this marriage, this relationship actually look like?
Speaker 1:Now, one of the things I do love about you, mate, is again, a light on a hill. A few years ago, for me, the light on the hill had to be shiny, had to be nothing wrong with it, had to make sure that everyone looked at the marriage and go, yep, there's no secrets here. And all of a sudden, my life went absolutely pear-shaped and I realised you can't hold that For the city on the hill that is you and Nat, like even with the videos that you've done on YouTube, the authenticity that steps into that place and gives to me such a willingness to go. I'd really love to sit with that couple and I'd really love to learn from them. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's very high praise from you, bro, thank you. Yeah Well, we love sitting with you guys too, honestly A lot of depth, a lot of honesty, and you don't have to be anybody but yourself, and that is a very rare relationship to be in. So, yeah, feeling is very mutual. I like being authentic. I mean, I know I can do the shallow thing. Years ago, when I was at Bible college, my pastoral care lecturer actually said what frustrates you most about ministry? And I said shallow crap, shallow compensation. And he said, well, embrace it because people need it. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. He, he said people need that in order to get to the deep thing. So my goal was get deep. So I'm like, okay, I can go through the shallow. Um, I like being deep. I like I like sharing what some people would think is too much, uh, but I don't think it's not enough, because I like being raw and honest and taking time to be very honest about my struggles, where I've been, where I fail, where I've succeeded and Nat does too.
Speaker 2:When we have people in our house, we often say that our dinner table is always a communion table. No matter what you do at it, it's a communion table. Sometimes we eat. We're homeschoolers, so we homeschool at the table too. But even then, when we have people at our house, we know that we've just we've got. Uh, is it an anointing? I don't know, is it a mantle cares? But what we do is just sit together with people and laugh and you can always see a thread of something that somebody said and you hold on to that thread and go that's something there. And then the wife will say something, or the kids will come and do something, or something will happen and you'll notice a frustration. And I notice those things Not always, and Nat does too. Nat notices it for a completely different reason. I feel it, she sees it. So God will give her a bit of a vision or a word around it, but I'll feel it and then I'll let myself feel it in the moment, and then usually the deeper into a dinner we go and I'm not just talking about dinner, I can do this with coffee.
Speaker 2:I will then say hey, you said this before, and then I'll start to pull the threads together and then I'll start pulling a thread together and say that resonated with me, and then I'll share something. And this is not a system, I just naturally do this. I'll then share something where I sucked at that thing and where I failed at that thing, and I don't usually try and say it nicely. I'll just go, man, this is what's happened and then leave it. I don't say, were you like that, because that's, you know, a bit forced, but I just leave it then and usually that will get them going doing this thing and uncomfortable, yeah, holding their arms for those who are listening, folding their arms, getting a bit closed, but that's fine. And then I'll do the same thing. I'll close up too, just to mimic it, and then usually it softens things down. Sometimes it's really awkward and I can feel that and then move on to something else.
Speaker 2:But I like being very raw and not being polished. I'm sick, I don't have energy for that. I've got five kids, I've got a busy life. I'm too busy to try and be polished. You'll see if anyone watches any of my YouTube videos to try and be polished. You'll see, if anyone watches any of my YouTube videos, they're not special, but I don't try and make them perfect. If I'm preaching at a church or if I'm leading a Bible study or if I'm shooting videos for a corporate client, I'm not trying to be perfect, I'm not trying to be polished, I'm not trying to appear amazing, I'm just trying to be myself, not even trying to be myself, even trying to be myself, just being myself.
Speaker 2:And I know that people will take that if there are people listening and you're like, well, I can't do that in my space, because people will take that news that is leverage against me, yeah, they will. That's life and that's what people are like and you can still. I still love those people who do that and I can see it when people are doing it. I can see it when there's a guy who is obviously insecure sitting at our dinner table and I share something really deep and emotional and I know that he's probably going to take that on the way home in the car and use it against me to make himself feel better or say justify, I'm not like that, thank God, I'm not like that, I'm thank god, I'm not like that. And that's fine, as long as there's this now soft ground between the two of us. Um, that maybe next time, because I care we can maybe unpack that a little more or not. The fact is there's a softness between us now, you know, and whatever people do with you. Being transparent and raw is them, yeah, but god can take that and make it into something really healing for some people. Maybe in six months or two years, they they're going through a hard time maybe and they remember that moment. That is still an remember that moment. That is still an open thread of conversation. That is still an open, that's not a closed door.
Speaker 2:I want people to know that Gav is available at any moment, even if I can't write back straight away or even if I can't be contacted immediately, because I'm a creative person and you know I hide in my cave. I like knowing that there are open roads between myself and other people to come back to all the time, because one of the things that we feel very often in my conversation with people often I find that people are either lonely, they feel powerless, or they feel hopeless about their future, powerless to change, hopeless about their future, or lonely. Often there's all three of those things and a good remedy for the loneliness is literally just to let people know that I see your pain, even if you don't have to say it. I see your pain and I've actually felt it a bit today. Yeah, and I'm here, yeah, anytime you want. So yeah, raw real all the things, take me somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Let me take you to Eden Go. The image inside of churches is often pastors think we've got to be shiny and so that people can't see that there's any problem and Jesus is going to be reflected in that shiny. I think I believe that's a better way of putting it. We were designed for Eden. We weren't designed for platforms. We weren't designed for shiny. We were designed to walk through a garden of eden and I don't think that garden was manicured lawns. I think that garden was a whole bunch messy and a whole bunch wild. And when I find people that are willing to be that messy and and I mean that in the most beautiful sense, because you're seeing who that person is without the facade when I spend time with you guys, and like last year when we came and had lunch with you guys, we got to sit all afternoon with your family and we watched a family operate in Eden.
Speaker 2:Great Eden is chaos. Right, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Thanks. It's this beautiful wonder of how these things connect together in an authentic way. That is unique, where at times in our world it's not just churches but we try and cookie cut people so that they can fit boxes and fit molds so that we can replicate the very things that we think are going to be successful. But you would know, as the creative, there is no like. We're all unique. There is no two people that are the same. And even you've got all the kids that you do, and the girls and the amazing Hugo in that space. They're all so creatively unique.
Speaker 1:But we watch the family allow that uniqueness to be something that happened very naturally, very spontaneously, and to me that's Eden, that's just God walking through Eden saying, hey, let's just have a conversation, let's just have a chat. And I've sat at your table to listen to those conversations that you two engage with. And it's one of the things I remember years ago when I first, I think I met Nat before I met yourself and Nat on camera she is a firecracker, right, she's so passionate. When I met Nat as mum, it was just like, oh my gosh, this woman loves extraordinarily well. She is so deep in that side of the space and I got to see this other side or this other part of her character. But then I got to meet you, I think, at the same time, and I watched a couple do this thing in unity. That was all a little messy. That's the point, that's the beautiful mess. That I think is the way that we've been created to be. And if we could let each other be messy but it's got to start with permission with ourselves, like I've got to be messy, I've got to be okay with that, I've got to be comfortable in the place of my own authenticity.
Speaker 1:And what I found like authenticity, even as a pastor, you're warned against it because you don't want to be sharing stuff with your people who come to your church and all of that sort of stuff, and so I found that sort of place of friendship and relationship really difficult. But authenticity is an invitation for people to be drawn closer to you, and when you can be authentic, you will see the ones who are drawn and mate. That's one of the reasons I'm sitting here with you. It's not just on videos that I've watched this. It's at a dinner table, it's inside family, it's having gatherings, it's the text messages that we share. There's an authenticity that draws me into a deeper place of connection and relationship and I can't get away from it. But that's the Eden moment for me. That's me walking in the cool of the night with the father hanging out with mate Gav, his wife Nat Trish. We're there in that place of authenticity and everything else is just happening around us. But again we're secure in who we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, secure in who we are? Yeah, right, absolutely. Anyway, thanks, man. Garden of Eden. Yeah, I love the garden. I love Eden's story, I love it. I could tell it over and, over and over again.
Speaker 2:God is always trying to woo us back to the garden. All the curses that came with the sin. Jesus took all that. So can we experience that Eden moment now? Yeah, I think we can. Every day, every day Right now. He is wooing me and you and anyone else. He's wooing us to wander through the garden with him and to create life, create beautiful things with him. Just walk with him.
Speaker 2:And I say to the kids all the time you know what is God creating with you today and it's kind of a cliche that I say it with the kids now, but sometimes they'll stop and the Holy Spirit will say let's create something, let's do something fun. So, yeah, our family is loud and messy and so much emotion. Hugo and I like to go and hide sometimes in his room Just like come on, just tip the Lego out, bro, so I can come and play with you for a minute. But, yeah, god is in the messiness, like you say, I love that. Embrace the messiness. God is in that messiness.
Speaker 2:God is in the messiness of my relationship with Nat and in the arguments that we have and the laughter that we have every day, the laughter, belly, laughter about silly, silly things, childish things. We laugh, we see the kids doing beautiful childish things and the laughter that Nat and I both have on a deep level is fun. And you know, it hasn't always been like that. We've been through lots and lots of things. You know we've been through times where we nearly just separated because of life and because of me being a coward and not stepping into things that I knew that I needed to step into, my who God had made me. I was going to say my role, but I hate that. That's such an expectation. There's so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway but we've had moments, yeah, months and years, where we've gone oh, I'm hiding from that and her doing her things, which she will explain, I'm sure. But you know, we go through seasons. I love, I know that. But to have joy in the moment and to feel God, for you to say to me today you've never said this to me, but for you to say to me that it's like a Garden of Eden in your home, I totally receive that and I hope everybody else is receiving what Matt has just said as well, that we can have that Garden of Eden in our homes, and that is so encouraging for me. I'm a words of affirmation guy. I'm writing that on my journal yeah, yeah, yeah, garden of.
Speaker 1:Eden Love it. Thanks. You and I have been in and around church environments for long enough to know the difference right, and you can walk into places and just go. I don't want to put a step wrong here, I don't want to say a thing wrong here. And then there's other times where you know that you can be inappropriate and all of a sudden it's like the walls have have opened or fallen away and you can be who you are when you discover those places, freedom lives in those places, yes, and so it's again like that and that's an authenticity, but it's an authenticity that's not based in fear, it's based in love. It's like the authority statement you spoke about. Without love, it's just control. And again, these are the conversations that draw people deeper into places of relationship, connection and the discovery of, like you said at the start, of a love with Jesus that just looks at you and says, yeah, this is my friend.
Speaker 2:There it is. Cut the end. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's deep, that's good, that's beautiful, yeah.
Speaker 1:That might be a good place just to put a pause in the conversation that we're having. Um, but, gav mate, I'm planning on a few of these. Right, let's do it. I don't want to cut that part out of the out the podcast we'll do it, we'll see, I will definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I enjoy talking, obviously, but, matt, you're a deep man of God and any time that I need wisdom there's not many people I will ask Nat's uncle, chris Folson.
Speaker 2:I'll ask him and I'll ask you really, because I know that there's no judgment. There's a lot of freedom. I can be raw, I can have a cry, I can say what I want to say, knowing that it's wrong to say it, and I'll get love back in lots of different forms. So I'm glad that we're able to have this conversation on here, because this is how you and I usually talk. But I'm glad we're able to have this conversation here and knowing that it's going public and I look forward to having more. I mean, you know, what else? Are we here for Doing all the things that I mentioned earlier videographer, all the stuff or are we here to enjoy God and enjoy each other? I love Acts 2, where it said that God added to the numbers those who were being saved, because it was a healthy environment, it was real, it was raw, it was over food, and God can bring people to healthy, raw, real things and that's what you and I have as friends and I'm looking forward to having more of these public conversations Awesome.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me on Looking forward to the next one. For everybody else, this is the Greater Things Podcast. Thank you for hanging out with us, and we'll be back in your ears next time. Bye, for now, you can find us on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, or go to our website, greaterthingsinternationalcom. Thank you.