Greater Things
A podcast about how faith fits with your everyday life. Matt interviews various speakers from around the globe and invites them to share their own experiences. For those who are asking big questions around faith, religion, church, and life.
https://www.greaterthingsinternational.com
Greater Things
Community Wisdom: Discovering God's Unique Path for Each of Us
What happens when you gather a diverse community to unpack a phrase we often say but rarely examine? In this unique experiment, Matt brings together members of the Greater Things community to explore what it means to "raise your kids in the ways of the Lord."
The conversation unfolds like a beautiful tapestry as each person contributes their distinct understanding. Elaine, a beauty therapist from Scotland, speaks passionately about how God's ways are reflected in our unique creation, down to the cellular level. "Each person is completely uniquely created," she explains, connecting this revelation to how she approaches her clients with individualized care.
For Claire, a mother of four girls, the ways of the Lord are tied to identity and experiencing God's love beyond just cognitive knowledge. She vulnerably shares her journey: "I think before I've had a head, cognitive 'yes I know God loves me' agreement, but there's been that massive gap between that knowledge and the experienced reality of it."
The wisdom deepens as Merle and John, a married couple with decades of faith experience, offer their perspectives. Merle describes God's ways as "spacious and perfect," painting vivid images of open gates and wildflower meadows representing the freedom God provides. John, approaching his 70th birthday, draws from 1 Corinthians 13 to explain that God's ways are simply the ways He loves—patient, kind, and never insisting on His own way.
What makes this episode remarkable is how the conversation itself demonstrates the kingdom of God in action—multiple voices contributing to a richer revelation than any single perspective could provide. When Claire honestly admits she currently feels on a narrow path rather than in a spacious place, it doesn't diminish Merle's insight but rather expands the group's collective understanding.
Join this authentic community conversation and discover how different perspectives on God's ways might illuminate your own journey of faith and parenting. What might it mean for you to walk in or raise others in "the ways of the Lord"?
www.greaterthingsinternational.com
Today on the Greater Things Podcast, I'm doing something new. It's a little bit of experiment, but I think it's turned out really well. I've gathered a bunch of people from the Greater Things community to talk about a phrase of scripture that's often heard but rarely understood. Hope you enjoy. Well, today on the Greater Things Podcast, I am back doing something brand new. Things podcast. I am back doing something brand new.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting with part of the Greater Things family community whatever you want to call it, but it's one of our what we call cafes. It's one of our community gatherings that happens, and it usually happens in Australia on a Saturday night or via Zoom, but most of the crew that turn up are in the UK, so it's first thing in the morning on a Saturday morning. So they're fresh, they're ready to go, they know what they're going to say. A whole bunch of wisdom is going to be dropped on you guys today, but I'm really looking forward to having fun with this idea and thought, and so what we're doing and I will be introducing them in just a sec what we'll be doing is looking at a phrase in the Bible that you've probably heard a million times, but we've asked the question what does it mean to them. So in the Old Testament there is a verse that says that to raise your kids in the ways of the Lord. And so I asked the question what are the ways of the Lord?
Speaker 1:So often in churches we use these phrases that get spoken and said time and time again, but we don't often slow down to unpack them or to understand them. And so when we did this in community, I had half a dozen different concepts of the ways of the Lord, and when we put them together, we had something quite beautiful. So let me introduce the crew to you. I'm going to just call them out, I'm going to ask them just to give 30 seconds of who is this particular person, and we're going to kick off with Elaine Taggart, all the way from Scotland. How are you doing, elaine?
Speaker 2:I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 1:Can you introduce yourself to the listeners?
Speaker 2:to the listeners yep, so I am elaine. I live in glasgow in scotland, um, I've got two grown-up daughters and I run my own little business. I'm a beauty therapist and I mainly focus on treatments like aromatherapy, massage, reflexology and manual lymphatic drainage. So, uh, yeah, so that is my, my life, awesome love it a line.
Speaker 1:Let's go to claire how you doing claire I'm good, thank you that's good. Can you do the same? Introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm Claire and I am married to William. I've got four girls who are in age from 12 to 7. And yeah, I've lived in the States, moved to England a few years ago.
Speaker 1:Awesome, that's great. Let me go to Merle and John Pocock. Let's go with Merle first. How are you doing, merle?
Speaker 5:Very well, thank you.
Speaker 1:That's good. So who is Merle Pocock?
Speaker 5:Who is Merle Pocock? Well, first of all, we live on the south coast in England and of course I'm back to John. We've parented three sons and we are grandparents of seven children. People describe me as a protector, so that's who I am. I agree with that because I am very passionate about equality and justice and valuing those people or valuing others respecting them. So, yeah, I would agree that I'm a protector of the vulnerable.
Speaker 1:I love it. Let's go to your husband to see if he confirms that.
Speaker 6:Oh, absolutely yes. Yes, I'm John. I don't need to regurgitate the number of children and grandchildren and whatever. As for me, gosh, I spent most of my life writing software, spent the last 10 years of my life being a counsellor. Who am I? I'm curious. I want to know how everything works. I want to know how everything fits together. So the whole of life is a jigsaw looking to be put together, but I'm always looking for lost pieces and trying to find out how these odd pieces that I found fit together. That's me.
Speaker 1:Love it. Thanks, mate, great to have you with us. And lastly, we have Frances, and Frances has been hanging out with Trish and I for years and it's just great to have her in this conversation. How are you, frances? I'm good thanks Matt.
Speaker 7:How are you? I'm very well. Who is Frances Kramer? Who is Frances? Frances is retired. She was an accountant. She works these days just volunteering in that area for not-for-profits, and I love being with people, but at the same time, I'm an introvert, so I love being with myself sometimes I love that.
Speaker 1:Thanks, frances. Okay, let's jump into a conversation, and I might kick off with Elaine, so just to give her a little bit of a heads up in this conversation. And so, like I said at start, there are so many concepts inside of churches and even the Bible that we often run over the top of without slowing down to unpack and to understand. And when we do this inside of community, it's like the combined wisdom becomes one great voice that is speaking. I love doing this sort of stuff. We've been doing it now for years and I've learnt heaps from this particular community as well. They are so rich in wisdom, and so let's kick it off. Elaine, what is it the ways of the Lord? How do you define that?
Speaker 2:So I think that in my work I deal with clients on a one-to-one basis and I am always very interested in the uniqueness of each person and actually how that relates to nature as well. I think that we can see God when we are out in nature. You know, and there are so many things about the way that we are created that we've come so far away from, and the thing that came in that has been rolling around in my head has been you formed my innermost being, shaping my delicate inside and my intricate outside, and wove them all together in my mother's womb, um, you know sam 139, and that is so true. And when you think about the way that we are formed, each time when we were created of billions, squazillions of tiny little cells, and each tiny cell has organelles that communicate with each other, and to me that is just absolutely phenomenal and I think that we kind of way that the world has um evolved, we've come so far away from the intricacy of how we are created. You know you go to the doctor and no harm to the GPs, but you know I'm feeling a bit depressed or something's wrong. Here's a pill, here's a pill. Take that um, when in actual fact, there's so much value in understanding the way that we're created and how we operate uniquely. Um, you know what works for me and this is how I work with my clients.
Speaker 2:No two treatments are the same. Like you'll not come in. There's not a uniform pattern. Each person will receive something that is completely unique to them. There are essential oils that are created from petals, from leaves, from tree bark, from petals from leaves from tree bark. Each of these essential oils carry unique properties as well, and again, the oil that works for me won't work for you. You know, we're just so uniquely created. So it's really, to me, the ways of God. It's about understanding how has he created me, because that's different to how he's created the next person. So, really deeply understanding that, to me, that's the way, the ways of God.
Speaker 1:I love the uniqueness that you pull out of that, elaine. It's the way you talk. It's the ways of God. I love the uniqueness that you pull out of that, elaine. It's the way you talk. It's the way you think. How long have you been in this kind of revelation?
Speaker 2:So I think that I've always, I think since starting my own business, since working with people, which is years, um, I've always known, but over, I think, probably more recently I am growing in my awareness of just how unique each person is. I don't know, it seems to be more recently. Is it post-co? I don't know, it seems to be more recently. Is it post-Covid, I don't know? There are so many bizarre people with bizarre issues going on and I think it's more important now than ever to understand that. So I think, probably. How long have I been in this revelation? Yeah, it's probably been over the last few years, I would say.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I love that too, elaine, because, again, revelation when it becomes application inside of your own story, in your own dialogue, your narrative, you can actually see it inside your own life. It's not just a good idea from a preacher or a Bible teaching, it has now become application. So I love that, elaine. Thank you, you're welcome. Let's go down to England and see how Claire is going to drop in on this conversation. Claire, what are the ways of the Lord to you?
Speaker 3:I've been pondering this. I loved having the conversation last week in the cafes because I feel like it's been just rolling around in my mind over the week and I've been thinking a lot about the dependency, in terms of relationship with god, that um to me, I think, increasingly there's a seeing that that his, his ways aren't my way, um, and that, uh, so often I feel like he's been untangling and and on where I, where I've had a mindset of thinking that his ways are a certain way or you know, this is what his ways look like. I feel like he's been showing me that his ways don't necessarily always fit in that box and that his ways may I mean change, but look different in different seasons, in different circumstances, but look different in different seasons in different circumstances. Um, and that's been really challenging because I think it's uh shaken the. Is this really god? Is this really you know the questions of, is it really him? Um.
Speaker 3:But this week I was also thinking about really tying in a little bit with what elaine was saying, that he reminded me of something he spoke to me um a couple of, probably a couple of years ago now about this this being a season of um, accepting my story of discovering who I am, becoming known and being loved, and maybe think, oh, they're his way, like he's spoken it, and that he, that's something that he's investing in. In terms of that, that, um, discovering who I am, that the identity, the whole, the whole piece of um knowing, like you said, elaine, the, the the intricacies of how he's made you and how he's created you, and what, what your purpose is is who, who you are, um, and and I think that, too, with with you know, raising up youngish children, that um you know in, in terms of teaching them his ways, um, that that whole piece of helping them to discover who they are, helping them to see how they're created and um, and so uniquely, you know our girls are so different, um, but you know, calling out that uniqueness in them, calling out their identity, um, and helping them to navigate challenges that come against that identity in a sense, um, but I was thinking too, uh, you, jesus, the other thing he said about becoming known and being loved, and um, actually, this morning too, there was a word for the day popped up on my phone. It was about, you know, loving. I don't know what it is, but it's, uh, you know when who, who, not who is your neighbor bit, but the um, when I, when I was hungry, you fed me.
Speaker 3:When I was thirsty, you know, or didn way of being loved, and that his way, really probably boiling down to that in some senses, that that coming into the knowledge, his ways, coming into the knowledge of being loved, coming into the knowledge of which, I think, ties with identity, but it's that who I am, but I'm his and I'm and I'm loved, and really, in some senses, that that's what I want my girls to know, above and beyond anything else, is that they're loved, um, and that their call is to love other people, um, in that, but it's, yeah, I think the coming back to the dependency, even that, and even the journey that I've been on the last while it's been, sometimes loving people doesn't look like the boxes that I've thought loving people looks like or the picture that I've had, and I think it's to me the way of the Lord is absolutely seeking to depend upon him, seeking to lean upon him and turn to him and look to him and hear him in all circumstances, to know God, what are you saying?
Speaker 3:What is? How do I walk this out? How do I love this person. No God, what are you saying? How do I walk this out? How do I love this person?
Speaker 1:There's a bunch of thoughts inside that, claire, because I love the difference between yourself and Elaine where Elaine's design. You're very much identity in that piece, but they just partnered together beautifully well. When did?
Speaker 3:you discover that you were loved by God or by Jesus. Oh, I'm still discovering it. I think, yeah, I am. I think it's an ongoing revelation, but I think it's only really been, well, the last couple of years. I think it's just been a journey, I think it was a recognition of I couldn't relate to God as a father. I couldn't relate to God as a father, and I think the Lord just began to help me unpack why and bring down some of those barriers.
Speaker 3:And I think it's been really in the last couple of years that there's been. I think before I've had a head, you know cognitive, yes, I know God loves me, you know agreement, but there's been that massive gap between that knowledge and the experienced and felt reality of it, um, and so it's really only been the last two years where there's been like a growing revelation and sense of um and knowledge in a, in a heart way, of his love, um, so, yeah, it's fairly, it feels fairly new in a sense, and I do definitely feel like I'm not. You know there's more to go, far more to go in terms of really really accepting his love for who I am now and not who I, you know, want to be or want to become.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I love, I love that, claire. Okay, let's stay in England and let's see how Merle is going to answer the question about the ways of the Lord.
Speaker 5:I think I can sum up the ways of the Lord in two phrases His ways are spacious and his ways are perfect. And I've not always appreciated that his ways are perfect, because I haven't my thoughts. Like Claire was saying, my thoughts are not his thoughts, my ways are not his ways, and so his ways haven't always seemed perfect. But on the other hand, my experience through the years, looking back, I can see that I didn't really know who I, who I was, and so the things that he led me into or the provision he gave me didn't always seem perfect. But looking back, they have been perfect, because he knows me better than I know myself. And the way he's fathered me has been perfect because he's always been kind with me and he's always been patient and gentle and that's not what I experienced from my earthly father a completely different experience. But he's always been gentle and he's always led me into a spacious place where I can be.
Speaker 5:And in Psalms it talks about this that God's ways are spacious and God's ways are perfect.
Speaker 5:And he's always led me into a spacious place where I'm free to be me.
Speaker 5:And you know, I haven't always made the right choices, but he still led me into that spacious place and I can also see how he's done that with my children, because my children have not always made the best choices either, as far as I'm concerned and also as far as other people are concerned, and I know they've been judged but his way is so gentle, his way is so loving, and I've felt his heart for my children, even when they've made mistakes. I have felt his heart and he has a heart not to condemn or to judge and he's covered them with his love and he's protected them from that judgment and I've seen him sort of hide them from that accusation and he's brought them through to a spacious place. And I guess that's been my testimony of his ways really, that you know they're perfect even when we don't think they are. And he leads, leads us into a spacious place. It's like the gates open. I've always, I've always had that picture of you know, the shepherd leaving the gate open. You can just run wild and free.
Speaker 1:You can hear the protector in your side of you. Mel, it's beautiful. I've never heard you use that word spacious. When did that become part of your description of God's ways?
Speaker 5:become part of your description of God's ways. Actually, I began to experience it probably when I had a very impactful revelation of the Father's love, because I heard somebody actually talk about the gate and the shepherd and I thought that was such a fantastic picture of um the shepherd. I can't really remember the the whole story, but I've always been seeing that gate wide open ever since that. He's always leading me into this sort of spacious field and I've had dreams and I've had visions and beautiful wild meadows or wide, wide open and wild spaces where I'm free to roam and free to be who I am and I don't have to live under expectations of myself or expectations of other people. I can just be free and I think that's been going on probably for about 15 years of seeing nothing but a spacious place for me.
Speaker 1:I love that. Mel, let's go to your man and see how he's going to define this.
Speaker 6:Oh, my boy, there's so many thoughts going around. I guess I always start from the point that says God is love. And we have loads of scriptures, but you know, you particularly have something like one, corinthians 13, that says love is yeah, yeah. And if it says love is, then it must also be saying God is, god is kind, god is kind, god is patient, god doesn't boast, god doesn't insist on his own way, and all of these things. So God's ways are the ways in which he loves, the ways in which he works those things out with each of us. And when we say his ways are higher than our ways or different from our ways, see, all of that stuff is not the way of the world.
Speaker 6:The way of the world is about being right yeah the way of the world is about being powerful are the ways of a father and the ways of a mother, and he works out those relationships with each person. I mean, what I've seen probably most clearly is the way in which yeah, it's like it says God does not insist on his own way, god doesn't have anything to boast about, god doesn't have anything to prove, because he's got nothing to prove.
Speaker 6:He's perfectly able to cope with our mess-ups yeah he's been able to cope with our misunderstandings and our misrepresentation of him and still keep coming and still keep fathering and still keep mothering and still keep caring. You know, right right to the point where you know he come. He comes to earth and and we crucify god for blasphemy, we crucify god for sedition, and what does he do? He comes back and he says it's okay, you forgive him Because his ways are ways of forgiveness. His ways are ways of growing, of hoping. No, it's just hope. Love, god hopes all things, things. God believes all things. Now, that's not higher than my way.
Speaker 1:I don't know what is there's my yeah, let me ask you a question, then, because I know you've held this revelation for a long time. One of the observations which I really love is hearing what a marriage thinks and for you two to answer. And we've got the protector, and we've got this great God is love moment that sits on the couch with us. This is decades, though. You've been pondering the love of God for a long time now, haven't you, john?
Speaker 6:Oh gosh, a long time now, haven't you, john? Oh gosh, I've been trying to know and understand that. I mean, yes, from from the time when we were so impacted by the father's love. But I can remember talking to people who'd known us for years. I can remember talking to people who'd known us for years before that saying, well, you know, this was you, this is what you talked about years ago, and there's always been in me since, probably since I was a teenager, when I first heard the idea that the scriptural term, the day of the Lord, actually means the day when God gets everything that his heart desires. And and so this idea of what is it that God wants? What is it that God wants? What is it that God's heart, this heart's desire, what is his nature? What is he doing? What all of that? How can I? How can I fit into that? How can I hasten that? Because scripture says we can hasten. It has been part of me since probably mid teens, and I'm 70 this year.
Speaker 1:I wasn't going to say that man, I don't mind, I'm 70 this year. I wasn't going to say that, mate.
Speaker 6:I don't mind. I'm quite pleased with the idea.
Speaker 1:We're going to jump to Francis in a sec. The idea for me, with what you guys are saying, it's adding into each part of the conversation, but there's been a time in life where a seed has been sown for each of these conversations to be happening right now, and from a teenager all the way through to the age of 70, this has been something that's becoming the harvest inside of you, john, and I love it, absolutely. Really love it, okay, francis, frances.
Speaker 7:I'm probably a little bit like Merle and John, I think. For me it's his loving faithfulness, his steadfastness, like he's always been, that safety net that underpins me. Even if I make wrong decisions, he seems to come through with okay, you made a wrong choice, but let's see how we can just rectify that. And he always offers me, or seems to offer, a way out, a place to make another choice. So he's like that rock that I've been able to rely on. This journey through life and he's just. His provisions for me have been amazing in so many ways. Just with the people he's put around me, what he's given me as I to live with and by I just, yeah, he's given me to live with and by I just yeah, he's. I've always known that he's looking after me, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you say you've always known, that's a revelation you've carried since you've been a little girl.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I think I've always felt that God was there and yeah, he was always kind of walking with me. Even if I haven't always acknowledged it in the same way I've always, it's something I've always known.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that, frances. Thank you for that. So when we're putting all this together for everyone who's listening this is how we normally do what we call a cafe we're listening to the combined wisdom that sits inside of a room, and so you can hear Elaine talking about the uniqueness of every human on the planet, and she went to the whole cellular level. It's a passion of hers and you can feel it. You can hear it inside of her.
Speaker 1:And then, when we clicked over to claire, she's talking about identity from that aspect of being loved and the whole concept of when did I realize I was loved? I love how you picked up claire that I, I knew it from a cognitive point of view, but it was the experiencing it and like even with Frances, like she's been experiencing it in some way, shape or form since a little girl, and like just the three of you, so different in your experiences, but again, the way that it's locking together. And then we sat with the married couple on the couch and both Merle and John, and we listened to the spaciousness and you said the word Merle, freedom and like for the rest of us, and I was even watching Elaine at the time when you were talking about running through the wildflowers and she was smiling and she was like Elaine was right there in the field with you. She wanted to burst through that gate and just go. Yep, that's where we're going to be.
Speaker 1:And then we have the concept of John talking about the Father's love and drawing 1 Corinthians 13 in it, and so again you see, a conversation that starts in the Bible becomes experiential. They're using the Bible to get to where they're understanding, and then we're starting to form up this idea of the ways of the Lord from a community point of view. Does anyone else want to jump in and say anything? Claire, go for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just thinking, Mel, when you were talking about the spaciousness and the whatever. I was struggling a little bit because I was like God, but that's where I want to be, I want to see that spacious, I want a nice field to be in, and I feel like it's. The way is narrow. You know what I mean, and I feel like sometimes the way is narrow, you know kind of like, and that's that to me. That's some of the, you know, wrestles with the ways of the Lord is that sometimes it can be one way and another time it's another way and it can be different for different people. But it's all God, you know, kind of.
Speaker 3:But I was thinking that's what it feels like.
Speaker 3:It feels like I'm on this little narrow path right now, you know, and he's drawing me, leaning on my arm, but it it's narrow and he says his way is narrow.
Speaker 3:You know like, so it's not, you know, unbiblical, it's not, and so it's those wrestles of how you know kind of the ways the lord can look so different in some ways. But it was just. It made me think because I was like, literally I feel like I'm on a little tight path, like where is this nice open space and where is the spaciousness of this? And I totally hear you and I get that there is that space, but I was also feeling, like to me at the moment, the ways of the lord's like this is a narrow path that you're, you know, seeking to walk, uh, or that he's, yeah, that he has me on that. Um, that doesn't feel spacious, that doesn't. It feels like it's tight, you know it's, it's pressing, it's, um, yeah, hard at times, um, and but he's with me in it, you know, and there's that that you know he's, I know he's leading on it, but just, yeah, it just made me think that go for it now I have been on narrow paths and I think that's why I said, you know, not always do.
Speaker 5:I think his way is perfect, because when you're on that narrow path it doesn't seem very perfect at all. But there's a reason why we're on that narrow path, I guess because he's leading us through something where it feels tight at the time but it's necessary, and so he's bringing us through that into this spacious place. And I guess, you know, although I've been on those narrow paths, I've always seen up until now. You know, my experience up until now is that it always leads to an open place of freedom.
Speaker 6:So to an open place of freedom. The valley of the shadow of death leads to a table set in front of you. Know, the narrow place leads to a spacious place. But I think this is the thing that I'm so struck by is that the way of the world is to be right. There has to be one answer, it has to be boxed in, and this is what it looks like and this is how you do it. And if you don't do it the way you're supposed to do it, then tough luck and and you're out and you're a heretic and you're a, you're a whatever, but it's not about being right.
Speaker 6:That's the tree of the tree of life and learning to walk with a God who is a perfect father and a perfect mother and who deals with us with the heart of a perfect father and a perfect mother.
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah, yeah, my, my, I go to you know, we, we talk about moses, you know, knowing the ways of the lord and and all the rest of it, and I go right right back to moses, standing there and and saying well, what's your name then? Who, who, who, who, shall I say, sent me and you get this, this answer, which is we always translate as tell them that that I am has has sent you, but what I understand is that there's not really any any difference between the present and the future tense in Hebrew, so that's just as just as easily translated as I will be who I will be, and, and essentially what it's saying is well, if you want to know who it is you sent, that sent you. You better walk with me and find out, moment by moment, who I am, and that's that's the way. Yeah, and as a moment by moment, walking, finding out who god is for me in this moment and knowing how he's fathering, how he's mothering me that's so good.
Speaker 1:Thanks, john. I think claire wants to have a. Is that right? Claire, do you want to jump in again?
Speaker 3:I was just going to say one of the, there were three things that have come to mind as we've been talking about the, the ways the lord is thinking about, his ways being ones of transformation, of that taking something you know kind of like and changing it into a new, a new thing, um, and I know redemption is kind of like a christianese word, but but that redeeming, that kind of taking you know what's what's not right or yeah, but what's not healed, whole, whatever, and bringing restoration, bringing life and hope and joy, those places where it's, yeah, the things that aren't how we want them.
Speaker 3:But also his creativity, that in that that his ways are creative and his ways, uh, don't always, yeah, getting that, not not looking the same, but actually he's, he's a creative god, he's creative in the ways that he deals with us.
Speaker 3:He's creative and and so, um, yeah, it just it struck me those, those three things that actually his ways or, or you know, even you know, through all history, like he's been transforming, he's been redeeming, he's being, he's been create, creating and creative, and so, I guess, seeing that in a different way in terms of how do I bring up the girls, how do I, you know that whole yeah, expecting that, even if I see behavior like this right now, they're not going to stay that way, because god's working, you know it's changing, and believing that that it's that journey it's not just a you know what, john, you say. It's like that. That journey of being with him and walking with him and but not not being boxed into or letting him undo the boxes is probably really what he's having to do with me. Totally destroy the boxes that have been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. That's one thing I love about you, claire, is you always bring it back to practical. How do I do this with the girls and the challenges that you face every single day. It's one of the great things about you. Frances, do you want to jump in?
Speaker 7:Yeah, just as we were chatting, I'm thinking about really, the generosity of his love towards us, because all he asks from us is that we love him, and then he deals with everything else. He grows us, he teaches us, he's patient with else. He grows us, he teaches us, he's patient with us, he leads us, he does all of those things and all he asks of us is that we love him back. And that's the generosity of his heart towards us. Yeah. Go for it, elaine. Yeah, go for it, elaine.
Speaker 2:I think when Meryl was talking about the, the wide open space, the spaces it reminded me of last year, I had this revelation that he was bringing me out of self imposed expectation and I was quite. I thought all right, so I've put all these limitations on myself, and I think what Claire said as well, you know, but we do, we put these expectations on ourselves, don't we? We beat ourselves up, we. I think you, you can look at, think about religion and all the rules and regulations, and then I'm not quite meeting the mark. And so I think, when Merle was, you were talking about the wide open space, I thought, yeah, that's why it was striking a chord. There was a verse that I got. I was trying to look for it. I can't. I can't remember, um, what the verse was, um that he gave me at the time. So that's completely irrelevant. No, love it. And I love how everyone talking brings healing. Everything that everyone says brings healing. There's always something that we haven't thought about ourselves. And so, yeah, love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do as well.
Speaker 1:In the idea of a podcast we try and keep this to the timeframe that doesn't go too long, but in a cafe the conversation often spills into even greater areas or we all find some sort of rabbit hole to go down and land in some sort of place of revelation. As we pull this together for all of you guys listening, or if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll actually have seen the joy of these guys sharing as well, and I trust in the recording you're actually able to feel the joy and feel the revelation that's happening. For me, the idea of the ways of the Lord starts with Jesus saying love others as I have loved you. If I am doing that, then God is doing stuff because he is love. If I can love Francis as Christ has loved me, the kingdom of God builds between Francis and I and we're included in the conversation. When I draw Elaine into that, it's a threefold. When I draw Merle and John, we're up to five, and then when we join in with Claire and the beautiful Catherine who's hanging out with Claire today.
Speaker 1:This is the conversation for me of the kingdom of God, the ways of the Lord. Years ago, when I led a church, it was often the one voice, you know, when we looked at the concept that God's ways are higher than our ways. This is what I found as his ways. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got a revelation, everyone's got a testimony, everyone's got a story, and what you've watched or listened to is one story adding to another story, adding to another story, adding to another. And so you guys watch that.
Speaker 1:When Merle opened the gate and all of a sudden we find ourselves on this narrow path and the conversation lands in that way. I often think of that Merle and the idea that the narrow gate means that we go through it with Jesus. We don't go through it as a crowd or a bunch, we go through it personally, and so when we're walking on that path, we're walking with Christ. It's not the crowd, it's with him. And so then we get today like where there's been half a dozen of us on that path walking along it and you can sort of imagine it in your head that Merle might be at the back talking and we're like, yeah, that's a great idea. And all of a sudden you see the conversation flow through the little traveling party that's going along this narrow path that started from this gate that Merle's like it's open. We're going to go find the wide, open spaces. John leads us into the place at the feast table where we can dine in the comfort and the fullness of what God has prepared for us. But then you've got Claire's voice too, where she says I want to be there. And this is, to me, such the beauty of the community, like more can give a statement and everyone doesn't go a hundred percent. I'm right there, somebody's like I want to be there and let me talk about that. And that honesty, that authenticity, draws us into a place of understanding of what Claire's walking through. But then it broadens the revelation of what God has given to us.
Speaker 1:Okay, friends, this is Greater Things Podcast community. There's going to be more of these that we want to do and and I love getting people's voices into every conversation. It was a beautiful revelation of mine a number of years ago when it was the concept of pastor, where you seem to have to hold everything and know everything about the holy spirit and god. When you come to that place of going. Man, I'm just scratching the surface and you lean back. You let every other voice into the conversation. There is something of his ways in that that I think I'm learning and growing in, but it's something for the kingdom of God to listen to as well. But this is the Greater Things Podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us. We'll be back in your ears next time. Bye for now. Thanks for hanging out with us. We'll be back in your ears next time. Bye for now. You can find us on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, or go to our website, greaterthingsinternationalcom. You.