EP11: How To Balance Two Careers Without Resentment

Interview with Michael Teager / Jazz saxophonist, Early Remote Worker, Lead Dad

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Michael Teager is a renown saxophone player with multiple recordings who was gigging several times a week before his son was born. His wife, a musician and teacher, needed to return to work fairly quickly, so he stepped up to take over childcare duties. He felt he could make it all work. He stopped teaching, reduced his gigs, and asked to shift the hours of his job as a business manager to nights. But it came at a cost: sleep, music friendships, free time. He thought his life would return to normal in 2019 when his son went to school, but then Covid hit and his son was back with him. Oh and the family had moved to Buffalo, where he knew no one. Listen to how Teager balanced so much, kept following his passion and never quit.

---

Get our free newsletter covering all things fatherhood delivered straight to your inbox: https://thecompanyofdads.com/thedad/

Transcript

00;00;04;18 - 00;00;23;22
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host and the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about their parenting role. I know this from firsthand experience as lead dad to my three girls, three dogs, three cats, and three fish.

00;00;23;24 - 00;00;40;28
Paul Sullivan
I did this all while managing my career and striving to be an above average husband. One thing I know for sure about being a dad is it's not a normal role. You're not doing what dads have traditionally done. Doing the work and leaving the parenting to mom for someone else. Nor are you always welcome into the world where moms are the primary caregivers.

00;00;41;00 - 00;01;10;08
Paul Sullivan
But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and focus on what really matters family, friendship, finance, and the fun. Today my guest is Michael Teager, who's one of the first lead dads to reach out when I said I was leaving the New York Times and starting something that became the company that I'm super excited to have him here today with a lot to talk about his day job, his music career, his son, his wife, a teacher, and most of all, how he started watching classic wrestling.

00;01;10;08 - 00;01;32;15
Paul Sullivan
Like we're talking Bob Backlund, Andre the Giant, gorgeous jaws types of how he started watching classic wrestling while doing dishes. Second to that, of course, is the trio he's got going in his house him on saxophone, his wife on viola, and their young son on cello. Mike, welcome to the Company of Dads podcast. Thanks for joining me.

00;01;32;17 - 00;01;40;25
Michael Teager
Thank you for having me. I enjoyed that introduction. I'm sure we'll talk wrestling at some point. My wife is going to severely roll her eyes when she hears that.

00;01;40;25 - 00;01;49;11
Paul Sullivan
But I got to ask first. Like with the Traeger trio you got going on there? Is there any percussion? Like a like a dog who plays a snare? Like a cat who like things on the track?

00;01;49;11 - 00;02;11;10
Michael Teager
We do have we do have a drum set and a full drum set in the basement that I purchased this summer just to have, you know, being a musician, being involved with rehearsals, you know, if like, for instance, I play one of the things I play with, I play in a cover band around town. And I figured if I don't really play drums, my my son bangs on the drums.

00;02;11;10 - 00;02;29;18
Michael Teager
He's seven. But I figured, you know, if I needed to host a rehearsal, I could at least tell the drummer, hey, you don't have to bring something. What? We have something here. Plus, it would just be nice to have, but, I don't know. Our son. He likes to bang on anything, and sometimes he'll bang on his cello while he's playing it.

00;02;29;18 - 00;02;32;23
Michael Teager
So there's. There's always something. So our house is full of instruments.

00;02;32;23 - 00;02;43;23
Paul Sullivan
It's just very thoughtful of you because, you know, whenever you see this, drummers like setting up for a gig. It takes them forever. Like they've got drummer, band, drummer upon drum and you with the saxophone. You just kind of. You walk in, right? You know, you've been careful.

00;02;43;25 - 00;03;02;09
Michael Teager
Yeah. No, it's, you know, I do have, you know, I guess for a saxophone player, I would have a lot of gear, but I can still do it in one trip. So, you know, I my, my hands and my shoulders and my back will be full, but, I generally can do it on one trip while holding a coffee, so, it's not that much stuff.

00;03;02;17 - 00;03;21;03
Paul Sullivan
That's really good. That's pretty it. Yeah. So let's focus on, you know, the company of dads. But what about lead dads? How do you figure out, you know, you talk to you and I've talked about this. You know, you said some great stuff had over. How do you figure out who is going to be, you know, the primary parent when your your wife was baby, how do you figure that you were going to be, you know, the lead that.

00;03;21;06 - 00;03;45;08
Michael Teager
Well, we had, you know, early on we had decided we did not want to go the daycare route. And those were we had personal reasons for doing that, but also, financial reasons. At the time, we lived in East Lansing, Michigan, which is home to Ruskin State University. It's not the most expensive place in the country to live, but for Michigan, it was a, not a cheap area to live.

00;03;45;08 - 00;04;00;26
Michael Teager
And the daycare there was, astronomically high. It would have been a second mortgage just to put our child in daycare, even for two days a week, you know, because you buy the slot for the full time regardless, how how frequently or infrequently you use it. And so we had.

00;04;00;28 - 00;04;07;26
Paul Sullivan
Class also meaning he would start coming home, like his first words could be something like go Spartans, right? Yeah. It might not be.

00;04;07;29 - 00;04;45;11
Michael Teager
Well yeah, I well I should, I should say state right off the bat that I, I am completely sports illiterate, so I, I, you know, I, I'm, I did get my masters at MSU, so I guess I'm a Spartan by default. But I know I drive through Canada or used to before the, pandemic, I would drive through the border with some frequency and usually, you know, one out of every 4 or 5 times a border guard would, you know, especially when I lived in East Lansing, ask me where I lived in, say, East Lansing, and there would be some sort of U of M reference or Spartan reference.

00;04;45;11 - 00;05;06;13
Michael Teager
And I would go I would go along with it. But then, you know what? They might ask me about the team and I'm like, I got an I apologize. So, so we decided that one of us would be home. At the time this was our son was born in 2015. So, 2014 my wife is a full time teacher.

00;05;06;16 - 00;05;32;21
Michael Teager
Has been this is her, I think 11th year, 10th or 11th year of teaching. And I, you know, I taught part time on the side. I performed regularly around the state and was recording and I taught private lessons, but I also had a quote unquote day job, working for a software company, fully remotely. So I've been a remote employee in one regard or another for, you know, over 12 or 13 years.

00;05;32;21 - 00;05;58;00
Michael Teager
So before it was the cool thing to do, I guess. And I've always been, you know, I'm an only child. I like to have control. I was the person in the group project in high school who was always did all the work, you know, and so I said, you know, my schedule is flexible enough that I could probably make this work if we don't want to do daycare.

00;05;58;00 - 00;06;18;25
Michael Teager
And we didn't because we figured it could be a wash, we could do daycare or, you know, my wife didn't want to quit her job or go on, I want to leave of absence or anything. So I said, you know, I think we could make this work. So on paper, the sketch was, I'll, I'll watch him all day until four ish, 435 ish.

00;06;18;25 - 00;06;42;14
Michael Teager
And then when you get home, Kristen, my wife, she would take care of him in the evenings until he went to bed. And then I would basically work second shift, for my for the software company. I up and running software as the company I work for. And, that was the plan. So I started to reduce over a series of months over the course of the pregnancy, reduce my obligations outside of that.

00;06;42;17 - 00;07;05;09
Michael Teager
You know, because I taught for a while and was performing and teaching regularly, but it was just supplemental income. I mean, it was nice supplemental income, but it wasn't necessary. And so I gradually reduced my responsibilities. When my son was born in January, that January, my wife had maternity leave for several months. You know, both of our moms were helping out, in some degree.

00;07;05;09 - 00;07;26;06
Michael Teager
Her mom came from Buffalo, and my mom lived at the time when we lived in East Lansing, was about 100 miles away, and they were helping out. But then when my wife went back to work three months later. So I guess at the end of April, I then transitioned my work schedule to be home with him during the day when I was home all the time because I work from home, but I would be with him during the day.

00;07;26;06 - 00;07;31;01
Michael Teager
And then, I would try to basically work second shift when my wife got back.

00;07;31;05 - 00;07;50;01
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And I mean, every dad is balancing things, and you're juggling and making trade offs and it was great that you had an employer that could, you know, allow you to do your work at a different time. But you are a musician and you've had some you've had success as a musician and it's like being, you know, a great chef, great chefs work at night.

00;07;50;03 - 00;08;04;09
Paul Sullivan
They work on weekends, you know, musicians perform at night and on weekends. What was the thinking? You know, from the beginning is how you would still, you know, maintain your, your music career while, becoming a parent.

00;08;04;11 - 00;08;34;10
Michael Teager
You know, that's a good question. You know, it's funny, when my I always find the phrase odd, but when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant, I guess because, and part of us, I should say, you know, it came from some level of privilege in that, you know, they say, you know, you can't be fully prepared for a baby, you know, and we just have the one son, on paper, we were he was a planned pregnancy, you know, and, and and so on and so forth.

00;08;34;10 - 00;08;38;22
Michael Teager
So in, in on paper, we were ready. I mean, emotionally, I was completely under.

00;08;38;24 - 00;09;01;20
Paul Sullivan
And so this is I remember I've got three daughters and the oldest is 12.5 an inch and a half and four and a half and, and that first one, we went to the sort of new parent seminar at the local hospital where my wife would give birth. And we sat around was, you know, 6:00 at night. We had coffee that had like a donor or to that, I can't believe they've donuts at the hospital, but I hate them because who doesn't love donuts?

00;09;01;27 - 00;09;28;23
Paul Sullivan
And they kind of give you a little doll, teach you how to, you know, diaper the baby and you kind of leave there with a false sense of confidence, like a real false sense of comfort and whatnot. I was like three months into being a dad. I was like, this is such a bad at it. You should have, like the parenting class taught by Navy Seals, they should kick the door into your room at three in the morning, throw water on you, start yelling at you after you've already been out and had, you know, four glasses of wine and then you try to diaper the baby.

00;09;28;23 - 00;09;33;21
Paul Sullivan
So that's the the whole thing in terms of like thinking you're prepared versus being prepared for two different things.

00;09;33;24 - 00;09;55;28
Michael Teager
Yeah. And and but it was funny when we were I, when we were trying to get pregnant, I was, I was I've never been a kid person per se. I mean, I wanted us to have a family and and a child, if not children. So while we were trying, my wife was very excited about the future possibilities of, you know what?

00;09;56;00 - 00;10;19;18
Michael Teager
What our family would become. And I was kind of, not hesitant because obviously, I, I thought this was something I want to do, but I was also like, oh my God, what am I? You know, what's going to. I'm not I'm completely unprepared for this. Emotionally, and, mentally and so on and so forth. But as soon as my wife found out she was pregnant, our roles almost reversed.

00;10;19;18 - 00;10;57;29
Michael Teager
Where then she was. Because you know, she has. I'm just I just exist for the pregnancy. She has to actually go through it, you know, and as I don't have many pregnancies to compare it to, but, I mean, it's it's a physical ordeal, to, to carry around a child. But then I, I went into complete excitement mode because it became real, and I, and I almost went into sort of reptilian brain, where most things in my life stopped mattering that I thought were very important, you know, and I and so I was like, yeah, I want to, you know, maybe maintain my musicianship and maintain my relationships.

00;10;57;29 - 00;11;13;07
Michael Teager
And there are certain gigs I didn't want to lose. You know, I like playing at this place a few times a year and so on and so forth, but not that I completely forgot about it, but I just sort of want a way of, well, I'll figure that out later. I'll, I'll, I'll I'll deal with that when it comes.

00;11;13;07 - 00;11;15;07
Michael Teager
I need to be prepared for the little guy.

00;11;15;09 - 00;11;31;16
Paul Sullivan
And what what was the thing? And I think it was that even though you have an advanced degree in music, you're you're a professional musician. The idea was way that your software job was going to help the family financially, and the music would just have to be on the backburner for a year or two, and you could always pick it up later or.

00;11;31;21 - 00;11;55;29
Michael Teager
Yeah. And also, I, you know, when I first got out of, you know, when I first got out of school, after my masters and I was thinking, oh, I'll probably go back for a doctorate and go into academia, and I, I quickly over not quickly, but gradually over several years kind of who disillusioned with that because I, I know a lot of people in academia and you know, I know a lot of people who are doing well.

00;11;55;29 - 00;12;17;08
Michael Teager
I know a lot of people who have doctorates, you know, work at the Apple Store. And so, and I know, I know quite a fair amount who, you know, they're just permanent adjuncts and part time professors, and they're completely burnt out and, you know, I had a stable job that I, enjoyed. The work is fine.

00;12;17;08 - 00;12;35;26
Michael Teager
I the people I work with at operating software are great, and it's drama free because it's remote. So, like, there's no real chitchat. You know, we have a meeting, but, like, I don't know their families. They don't know my family's, like, you guys know the work. Like we've we know we've known each other for years, but there's not the social aspect to it, and it makes it very efficient.

00;12;35;28 - 00;12;41;20
Paul Sullivan
I was hoping. I was hoping you were going to say that you were cutting edge early on in the sort of zoom holiday party that.

00;12;41;27 - 00;13;04;16
Michael Teager
Oh, no, I know, I, I actually, it's funny, with everything. Yeah. I think during the pandemic, I had maybe five zoom conversations with socially with with people. I just talked to them on the phone or whatever. But, I know that was a craze for a while, but no, I figured the one was an outside of the work and or the stability that that job brings to me.

00;13;04;19 - 00;13;25;26
Michael Teager
It's also, you know, I have a great boss, I report directly to CEO and there's not the pressure if I want to work more than full time. Like if I want to work at put in extra hours, I'm welcome to do that. But he also knows that his employees, myself included, have a life outside of work. And so I was able to structure it.

00;13;25;26 - 00;13;52;26
Michael Teager
So where, you know, I can now I can pursue the playing opportunities and the creative endeavors that I am interested in, even if they don't really bring in money, so to speak. As opposed to being reliant on the what musicians would call the wallpaper gigs of playing, you know, for three hours at the steakhouse for $50 because they technically want a band, but what they really want is a CD with people standing by the wall because, you know, it can't be too loud.

00;13;52;28 - 00;14;17;18
Michael Teager
It needs to be ignorable music. And so, you know, I've played hundreds of those before, and I didn't want to do that anymore. And so the job afforded me the security, but also the flexibility and the freedom, especially pre to to pursue those things. But you know, when, when, when my son arrived it was like, look, I, I, I've signed up, I've agreed and I want to be taking care of him during the day.

00;14;17;21 - 00;14;22;19
Michael Teager
I also still want to be employed. You know, I want, I want, I want. There's only so many things I.

00;14;22;26 - 00;14;58;08
Paul Sullivan
I know that you skipped over. You kind of said that you skipped over it, maybe because you're just used to it. But I think it's so important. You said that the CEO of this company, of your boss knows that his employees have a life outside of work. I mean, one of the biggest adjustments for people who were fortunate enough to be able to work from home caused millions and millions of people were not fortunate enough to work among those were fortunate enough suddenly realize that there was no longer, a disconnect between work and family, or their employers did not take into account that there would be this disconnect between, you know, work and family

00;14;58;08 - 00;15;13;03
Paul Sullivan
that that, you know, if we think back a couple of years, it was I don't know if you remember, there was this guy who was talking on the BBC, it went viral and his son crawled into the room. Oh, yes. And then his poor wife. It's like pulling the kid out and like that. That happens all the time now.

00;15;13;03 - 00;15;30;03
Paul Sullivan
And that that, you know, overlap is just what I mean. You're really sort of on the cutting edge of that in a sense. And was that always just implicit with, with the firm or your boss that there was going to be this balance, or was it more just, hey, look, my you got a life, isn't it? You, you you do at a high level the things we'd like you to do.

00;15;30;10 - 00;15;32;10
Paul Sullivan
We're we're cool with all the other stuff.

00;15;32;12 - 00;15;55;01
Michael Teager
Yeah, I mean, I have, I have, you know, part of, you know, it's it's it's funny, I was and even now, a while back, I was, here in Buffalo. I was playing part time. Was I considered it sort of like community volunteer work. I played with this group called the Grandfathers Orchestra. I'm the youngest in the band by like 30 years.

00;15;55;03 - 00;16;10;25
Michael Teager
And it's a big band and playing all the old tunes. And one guy asked me because we would rehearse on Tuesday mornings. My son's in school now. He was like, are you a first responder or something? Like, why are you here? Like, because I just show up in my, you know, sweatpants with my horn. Yeah. Yeah.

00;16;10;26 - 00;16;36;19
Michael Teager
And I play and I and I had it. It's first time anyone's ever asked me that. If you saw my arms, you would not think I was engaged in any sort of labor, physical labor. But, And I had to laugh. I said, oh, you know, I work remotely, and, you know, I've. But part of it is I am very strict with my schedule, and part of it is in my job, I, I'm it's pretty solitary work most of the time.

00;16;36;19 - 00;16;54;03
Michael Teager
I mean, I do I have a lot of client contacts and I a lot of contacts within the organization. But a lot of what I do is sort of internal and even the external stuff, as long as the work gets done. And I'm able to, when appropriate, you know, make a call or be a part of a meeting.

00;16;54;03 - 00;17;23;16
Michael Teager
But even that's kind of rare in my particular role. As long as the work is done, then, you know, if I need to. For instance, it's Tuesday. I take my Sunday cello on Tuesdays. I don't have to inform anybody that I'm gone, so to speak. And so. And I've always been very rigid with my time. So, you know, I learned early on, you know, when we bought our first house in Michigan, had to have a home office or had to have a extra bedroom, that would be the dedicated office.

00;17;23;16 - 00;17;36;13
Michael Teager
And I'm pretty Pavlovian. I only work on my my, you know, I have a personal laptop and work laptop. I only work on my work laptop. I only do it at my desk. You know, occasionally I can migrate to the couch, you know, late in the evening. If it's,

00;17;36;15 - 00;17;41;08
Paul Sullivan
I always fall asleep when I do that. I always wake up at, like, two in the morning and my neck hurts.

00;17;41;11 - 00;17;59;06
Michael Teager
Yeah, but, you know, it's I, you know, I need to be in my one little spot in the house where I work, and that's what I get it done. But, you know, I'm not emailing clients at three in the morning or anything like that. You know, if they need something during the day, I can schedule like either one of my sons at school or if he's at home, he's taking a nap.

00;17;59;08 - 00;18;18;04
Michael Teager
But there's always been that, you know, and it's not like my boss is lax to the point of, hey, you do what you want and we'll just pay your money. I mean, obviously I have responsibilities and I, I get those done, but I try and make I anything that involves me associating with other people. Like via phone or a meeting.

00;18;18;06 - 00;18;26;21
Michael Teager
I'll make those work during business hours. And then if I'm just working, then I can do that in the evening or late at night. And I don't have to bother anybody with that.

00;18;26;21 - 00;18;40;05
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, you made a good point there because I also. Well, I'm also an only child. But that's not a good point you made. That's just coincidence. But I am super scheduled. And when I was at the New York Times for so long, I was able to work all this other stuff around this without really, it was the opposite.

00;18;40;05 - 00;18;56;09
Paul Sullivan
Without informing them, without telling them that I was, The dad is like I had a weekly deadline for a column. I knew when, you know, bigger projects were due. I knew, you know, when a book was going to be due. And so therefore, I had this crazy and I still do color coded calendar that allowed me to know, okay, this is for me.

00;18;56;09 - 00;19;28;28
Paul Sullivan
This is for my kids. This is for my wife. This is random homeowner shit. You know, whatever it was. And like that schedule, you know, sometimes it can be oppressive, but other times it can be liberating. Like, okay, I have this block of time to do the following. But when you one of the things, you know, you had mentioned when you and I were corresponding back and forth was, you know, so the move from, you know, Michigan to, to upstate New York, but the other day, you know, that could I don't know, it was foreseen or not, but that was at least a choice.

00;19;28;28 - 00;19;48;13
Paul Sullivan
The other part was that you know, you became a dad first time dad. And a couple of years later, Covid hit and you're just about to get your son finally into school. Have a schedule, you know, block out in whatever blue, whatever color he's he is on your calendar. He's there for those hours, work around it, and then Covid hit.

00;19;48;13 - 00;20;03;15
Paul Sullivan
So when you think of all the things that you've been doing up to that point, I because I think as humans, we do really well. When we're focused on something, we're focused on a goal. We know you done everything right. And then of course, Covid comes, your son comes home, your wife is a teacher. She has to start dealing with remote, you know, learning.

00;20;03;15 - 00;20;11;29
Paul Sullivan
How did that, you know, kind of scramble what you had in mind as a sort of, you know, lead dad, but also a professional and and a musician.

00;20;12;01 - 00;20;35;00
Michael Teager
Well, it was I mean, I could, you know, I, I know we like to, I know this is more of a, a positive, discussion generally, but I sort of likened it to when I, when I found out that my son would be fully remote for the fall of 2020, I guess. So that would have been the first fall 20.

00;20;35;07 - 00;20;36;03
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

00;20;36;07 - 00;20;55;16
Michael Teager
And so, like, he was in preschool when the, when it started. So he went from being in school for 2.5 hours to he was just home all the time. And that wasn't, that was a reversion. And it was frustrating. But we made that work because I was used to I'd been used to it for years of him always being home.

00;20;55;18 - 00;21;19;24
Michael Teager
And I should I should couch this with, I'm a relatively I'm pretty introverted. I'm not necessarily shy. I'm just an introvert. I'm an introverted person and I work from home anyway, so my wife and I would always joke, and this isn't to belittle anyone who's, you know, suffering, during this, but I was one of the victors, I guess, of the pandemic in that, you know, I was used to being home all the time anyway.

00;21;20;01 - 00;21;38;10
Michael Teager
In fact, it was welcome to my world, I guess. And so, oddly enough, my daily routine didn't change that much when the pandemic hit. But in my mind, for years I'd been thinking, yeah, fall 2020, he's going to school full time and I'm going to be me again, I guess.

00;21;38;17 - 00;21;42;29
Paul Sullivan
But it's also like this cartoons with like a prisoners calendar, you know, where you're marking off the acts.

00;21;42;29 - 00;21;59;14
Michael Teager
And you mention that because I always likened it to because that was when they announced it was going to be he was going to be full. And I completely understood it. It wasn't like I'm going to send him regardless. You know, I it was understandable why he was remote in the school district in which we live handled it great.

00;21;59;14 - 00;22;04;12
Michael Teager
I mean, he was in school, he was on the computer, but.

00;22;04;14 - 00;22;20;09
Michael Teager
You know, however it could have been done, I don't think they could have done it better. So I was I was pleased, I was a pleased parent, but I told my wife, I said, I feel like I was up for parole and I got denied like that. And I don't think she found that as funny the first time.

00;22;20;15 - 00;22;41;01
Michael Teager
You know, first 5 or 6 times I mentioned that, because she was home. She's a teacher. She teaches in a different county. But she was home in the spring. But then her school was also remote, but she was teaching from the classroom. So in the fall, she was still going back to work. But then it was he and I were at home all day.

00;22;41;04 - 00;22;54;27
Michael Teager
And even when he was, you know, older 3 or 4, you know, I would try to not work around him if he was away, you know, I mean, it's different now. He's seven. He knows that if he's home, like with a cold or something like that, he has to work. I'll still play.

00;22;54;27 - 00;23;01;15
Paul Sullivan
With. Yeah. Now it's miserable. It's miserable. If you have a young child and you're trying to be engaged with that child and then respond to.

00;23;01;15 - 00;23;17;06
Michael Teager
Working, well, that was the thing is, like, I don't want him to associate us. Being together is me just staring at the computer and, you know, him wandering him, trying to get my attention. So, like, if he's home, you know, we'll do Legos. We'll do. Yeah. He loves to do chores. That sounds weird, but he likes to work in the yard.

00;23;17;06 - 00;23;39;28
Michael Teager
So we'll go out, we'll work in the yard, so on and so forth. And, you know, for zoom school, I was sitting right next to him helping him with his assignments where applicable, you know, watching him frustrated, trying to do them by himself, where he needed to. But what I got when we got the news that it was he was not going back, I mean, I was I was utterly devastated.

00;23;40;00 - 00;24;08;03
Michael Teager
And that took a while, you know, it wasn't until he actually went to school full time. I think he started two days a week in January 2021. Yeah. And then it went to four days a week. March, maybe I it's a little fuzzy, but, even that when he went back those two days a week, that first day he went, I was I was like, you know, it normally he would leave and I would just work the whole time, you know, focus.

00;24;08;03 - 00;24;20;02
Michael Teager
I got to get much done while he's out. And I like for the first hour of just being in the house, I felt like voluble at the end of Braveheart, where he's just screaming freedom, you know? And, I was.

00;24;20;02 - 00;24;25;01
Paul Sullivan
I was, I was going to say Tom Cruise in Risky Business and you're sliding around the house in your in your socks.

00;24;25;08 - 00;24;46;16
Michael Teager
Yeah. No, it was it was such unmitigated joy. The first day he was, was gone. And, you know, in a in a can sound to the I guess to the uninitiated, like, wow, that's the horrible thing to think about your kid. It's like I've been with him every day for five years at this point. And he he loves he loves school.

00;24;46;16 - 00;25;01;03
Michael Teager
He wants to be in school. But like, I needed some sort of semblance of identity. Yeah. Back in normalcy. And, you know, it's nice to work during the day. It's not. It's it's nice to not be working until 2 a.m., you know, every day. Yeah.

00;25;01;06 - 00;25;26;07
Paul Sullivan
Of course, you know, when you talk about identity and some semblance of normalcy, you know, I, I've always thought, like, the loneliest man in the world is the dad on a playground with his child, filled with moms and caregivers like you sit the stand there, you know, by yourself. How did you make the adjustment moving from, you know, East Lansing when you got to Michigan State?

00;25;26;07 - 00;26;01;24
Paul Sullivan
So you had a community there of, you know, and a musician friend, you know, all those random acquaintances that sort of make up the fabric of our lives, the people we see who are getting a cup of coffee or whatever, and to say hi to, you know, moving to, you know, north western New York and Buffalo area of New York, and not having that and then having Covid and then, you know, being there with, with your son and your wife is where how did you balance that, you know, or how did you create a community when, you know, there wasn't necessarily one that was probably super welcoming to To the Dead?

00;26;01;26 - 00;26;29;06
Michael Teager
No, it was I mean, it wasn't not necessarily just to lead that, but, musicians generally are. So for instance, the one drawback about working from home, like if you could call it that, is that given the situation, we moved to a new city in a new state, and my wife is from the area. It's part of the reason we moved here was so we could have more direct help with from the grandparents, you know, in my mom lived in Michigan, but she was still working at the time.

00;26;29;06 - 00;26;47;27
Michael Teager
She wasn't retired, and she traveled a lot for work so she could come on the weekends. But, you know, if we needed. And this is not to fault her because, you know, she had to work, but you know it. It's not like, oh, I need help on a Wednesday. What are we going to do? You know, if my white wife is working, we'd have to try and call find a babysitter or something.

00;26;47;27 - 00;27;08;05
Michael Teager
And so, and just for family reasons, we we thought this would help. And a position opened up. And so my wife applied and got it. And so it was planned. It was a family decision, us moving. But it's not like I went to a new job in the new city. I just stayed in the house all the time, you know, and even told my neighbors, like when I first moved in, I said, you know, I do work.

00;27;08;05 - 00;27;19;28
Michael Teager
I was like, if you see me around the property in my pajamas all the time, it's because I work from home like I it was almost like trying to justify because to them, they just see me with my son all day.

00;27;20;01 - 00;27;20;15
Paul Sullivan
Like.

00;27;20;17 - 00;27;38;14
Michael Teager
I basically. And I'm probably they're probably thinking, what's this guy doing all day, you know. Right, right. And and then, you know, his wife gets home and then she's playing with the boy, and then he like, disappears. He, like, never leaves the house. What's this guy doing? And so that was the one drawback was it was difficult to meet other people.

00;27;38;14 - 00;27;58;29
Michael Teager
And musically, you know, musicians, it's a very even for like local gigs that mean nothing. It's very cutthroat. Try because I, you know, I try to make contacts like the symphony orchestra or pit orchestras. To say like, hey, if you need a sub, I'd be more than happy to fill, you know, if someone's sick, but, you know, they take it as, oh, you're trying to steal my.

00;27;59;06 - 00;27;59;26
Paul Sullivan
My job.

00;27;59;26 - 00;28;16;18
Michael Teager
Like my precious gigs that I have. And so, yeah, you know, I but it's like, I'm not and I don't have the, I might have the stomach for. I don't have the patience for the politicking that goes with some of that. So I just said, you know what, if you're that passionate about, you know, playing at the steakhouse, then that's the problem.

00;28;16;21 - 00;28;35;00
Michael Teager
So, and, you know, the only thing I can think to liken it to, and it's probably a bit a weak analogy, is like being a military spouse where you just like, move to a new location and you don't know anybody because the only people I knew for the longest time when we lived here were my in-laws and people who knew my in-laws.

00;28;35;04 - 00;28;53;21
Michael Teager
You know, I don't. I was eventually I've met I've met some other people since then. But as you were saying, I started playing in this band in 2019, you know, but then like four months later, the pandemic hit. And so that our gigs went away for the most part, we we could do outdoor, outdoor stuff in the in the warm months.

00;28;53;21 - 00;29;18;15
Michael Teager
But that was about it. That was I mean, it was frustrating. But even by the time the pandemic hit, I was doing more than I had been in the previous several years. So there was some nourishment there, I guess. And I've always been very active and I've, I won't go into, you know, specifics or, you know, Partizan engagement, but I've always thought that civic involvement is very important.

00;29;18;15 - 00;29;38;29
Michael Teager
So I was on a city commission in East Lansing. I had to resign it because we moved. But then I started getting very active in, municipal, activities around here. So I currently I serve on the ethics board for the town, and it was an appointed position. But we meet once, once a month, and I do some work with a subcommittee of the school board.

00;29;38;29 - 00;30;00;02
Michael Teager
I find out not necessarily that the people I serve with were all best friends. We all get along. I find the activity of going out and doing that productive. It means something. You know, I get I get as much out of that that I would, you know, as I would, you know, going to the bar with a bunch of friends or something because I still keep in touch with my most of my best friends live in Michigan.

00;30;00;02 - 00;30;22;19
Michael Teager
No one lives out your way in, in new Jersey. And, like, we keep in touch on the phone. It's no different than when I lived in a different state. I don't get to see them with the frequency, that I would like. But just being able to say that I'm doing something other than taking care of my son and working is, that it's it's very fulfilling.

00;30;22;19 - 00;30;47;06
Michael Teager
But, you know, the the playground thing is funny. It's I mean, it's odd, I, I generally my natural expression is a scowl I don't have I guess I don't have the most of the most welcoming of, of natural facial expressions in my life is always trying to correct that, but. Or to remind me to keep it under control for going to a party or so she's like, yeah, try and look like you're having a good time.

00;30;47;07 - 00;30;50;14
Michael Teager
It's like, I am. I, you know, this is this is the face you married, I guess.

00;30;50;19 - 00;30;52;29
Paul Sullivan
But.

00;30;53;01 - 00;31;16;01
Michael Teager
Yeah, it's it's weird. Because I, And I'm not to say I'm a victim because I don't I'm not sad about it, but it it's an odd dynamic to be the one guy at the pick up line or the one guy at the PTA meeting. Yeah. It's just it's just I've, I liken it to I feel like there's a club that I'm not a part of when I, when I'm there.

00;31;16;03 - 00;31;38;23
Michael Teager
Not that anyone is disrespectful or rude or anything, but I, you know, I the last PTA meeting I walked into and like, everyone got quiet and because I felt like they were part of a group and I was just this guy that showed up. But that was it was compounded by the fact that I was the only guy to have been coming to all the PTA meetings for the last 18 months, and I thought you should at least know my face by now.

00;31;38;24 - 00;31;41;26
Michael Teager
I don't talk on the zoom, but you should recognize.

00;31;41;26 - 00;32;09;14
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, yeah, it's all the time. I need you to arrange it. And one about, you know, when you move to the new house, you had to sort of make it a point to say, oh, yeah. And by the way, I work, you know, and for, you know, 13 years that I was writing for the times, 12 of which I was a dad, and it was I was like, oh, well, yeah, but he's a New York Times columnist, but I'd be at the pediatrician or I'd be at, you know, the ballet, or I'd be at, you know, the play date at, beat up 315 on, on a Tuesday.

00;32;09;14 - 00;32;29;06
Paul Sullivan
But it's that sort of feeling that you know, you have to say. Yeah, but, and is one of the things I really am trying to do is make it more of a normal thing. It's not like we can have this commune. It's just you, just a parent. If you happen to be the dad. Yeah. Me be, you know, you know, doing the primary role, but you're just you're just a parent.

00;32;29;06 - 00;32;45;09
Paul Sullivan
And, you know, thing about the school, I mean, it's, you know, this is the third time one of my daughters has asked me to be, the class parent. And the first time I said this be great, I do it willingly. The second time I had to do it, because I had already done it for one daughter.

00;32;45;09 - 00;32;57;18
Paul Sullivan
So you can't, you know who's a hey, by the way? He did it for my oldest is. You have to. Okay. Find it. And then a couple of years have gone by and I thought, oh, I'm done with this. And then my daughter asked me again because she went to middle school, Newton High School, you know, dad, would you do it?

00;32;57;18 - 00;33;14;05
Paul Sullivan
And my initial reaction was, oh, good God, no, I don't, but then I think now, well, I'm not gonna be that guy. You know, I got to pitch in. And so same thing there on these zooms will be on zoom, and, they'll start them up and they're like, welcome class moms. How are y'all doing today?

00;33;14;05 - 00;33;25;08
Paul Sullivan
And I'll be like, and and dad, in class and okay, class moms, to get a robust agenda to have like this thing on is father fucking not hear me like and and dad.

00;33;25;10 - 00;33;48;15
Michael Teager
So I actually it's funny because, my friend Alice made the observation when we were talking the other day that she said, I don't know, I don't know if you realize it, but whenever you reference the parents, you say the other moms as a as if you are one of the moms and I which, I, I didn't realize it until she said it, but I noticed that I always say that like the other moms, as if I.

00;33;48;20 - 00;34;10;23
Michael Teager
Because, you know, that's how I feel. You know, speaking of, you know, I don't know if you've ever had this, but, you know, I have a New York Times subscription, along with the Buffalo News and I, I'll be scrolling at night and I tend to not really read like the lifestyle section or anything, but, you know, on like the front page, they'll pop out like five stories, like the most traffic of the day.

00;34;10;25 - 00;34;35;10
Michael Teager
And I always find myself drawn to. The stories written from the, you know, female perspective of, you know. How it's so rough being a mom, an X situation and why. So you and I and I find myself reading and agreeing in relating to maybe like the first seven paragraphs and then it there's always like not always, but there's often this turn.

00;34;35;17 - 00;34;53;05
Michael Teager
Yeah. Of where then it becomes very it becomes like very gendered and coded the language and I'm like, oh, now I now I know now I feel like I'm waiting at the pickup line, you know, like it's like I unders. I get the frustrations. I mean, I don't know what it's like to be, you know, I only know my experience.

00;34;53;05 - 00;35;15;06
Michael Teager
And, you know, I'm a cisgendered hetero male, so. And I'm, I'm, I'm the dad. So I only know my experience. So I don't know what it's like to be the mom, per se, but, it's it's well, it's wild because I find myself drawn to those things, and I relate to them more than I would relate to being, you know, the traditional working parent who's gone most of the time.

00;35;15;09 - 00;35;26;15
Michael Teager
Yeah. But then it turns. But then I feel like there's always, like, this little Jag at the end of, here's a club you're not in. I'm like, okay, I'll just enjoy the first two thirds of the.

00;35;26;18 - 00;35;43;26
Paul Sullivan
First year, and then. And then please wait quietly in the pickup line. That'd be great. Yeah. No, I, I see exactly there are times when I'll read the same stories and I'll, you know, you identify more with it's the primary parent, but it's also there's a part of me that thinks, you know, not every guy can be the lead dad, to be the the, the primary home.

00;35;43;26 - 00;36;05;13
Paul Sullivan
But I think every guy, particularly post Covid, this pandemic, wherever we are in this pandemic, you can realize like, boy, if I did just a little bit more, it's kind of like that. That book, you know, 10% better. If you could just be you could be 10% better of a of a dad, 10% better of a of a husband, 10% better of a, you know, helping like legit helping around the house.

00;36;05;13 - 00;36;18;20
Paul Sullivan
Like it's almost like I want to create a lead dad bootcamp. Like, okay, you're not going to be all the way in because you have other obligations. But guess what? You know, you can fold a laundry while you're watching Sportscenter. You can still you still know who won the game. It's you're not going to miss out.

00;36;18;26 - 00;36;20;11
Michael Teager
Yeah. Or watching wrestling, which is what.

00;36;20;11 - 00;36;27;07
Paul Sullivan
I do, which is the segue I was looking for, not just wrestling, but classic.

00;36;27;10 - 00;36;28;27
Michael Teager
Wrestling. So how does.

00;36;28;27 - 00;36;29;27
Paul Sullivan
This.

00;36;29;29 - 00;36;37;27
Michael Teager
Well, I, I don't know, you're I think I'm ten years younger than you. So, how old are you? I think I'll be 39 this summer.

00;36;37;29 - 00;37;02;13
Paul Sullivan
So I. I just turned 49 today. We're talking on my birthday. Oh. Happy birthday. Ten years younger. But. So I at least grew up. I remember I grew up in, outside of Springfield, Massachusetts, go into the Springfield Civic Center when Andre the Giant would be there, Jimmy Superfly Snuka, Bob Backlund, I remember going with my dad to see this stuff.

00;37;02;13 - 00;37;12;25
Paul Sullivan
And, you know, back when we thought that wrestling was real and I was like, I can't believe this. And so how did you ten years, you know, younger than me, get interested in the stuff that I love.

00;37;12;28 - 00;37;38;09
Michael Teager
So and I'll couch this this I'll sort of bridge two points only to say, because my mom took me to live wrestling events when I was little is I was I'm I'm the the project the product of a single single parent household. So I was raised by just my mom, and I only mention that because I guess I approach parenting not really thinking of roles as being mom or dad, but rather just parent.

00;37;38;12 - 00;37;42;00
Michael Teager
Like, you know, I don't necessarily. I've never really.

00;37;42;02 - 00;37;52;08
Paul Sullivan
I can't wait for you to bring this back to Andre the Giant, but keep going. So Andre the Giant and Jimmy Superfly is standing on his shoulders to jump off. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Bring this back.

00;37;52;10 - 00;38;13;13
Michael Teager
No, but I was I was going to say because my mom would take me to all of these wrestling events when I was little, but she took me because it was just that was the parent I had, you know, and but relating to parenting, you know, I've always thought of myself as the parent, not necessarily the capital, the dad or my wife being the capital of mom, because I always look back on my mom and just saying, well, she did both goals, you know, she fulfilled both of those.

00;38;13;13 - 00;38;29;16
Michael Teager
And so fast forwarding to, you know, she was working and raising me, but she would also take me. I was really into watching wrestling when I was. I'm a child of the 80s, so we're talking mid to late 80s. I was watching it on and I'm watching the tail end of the era you're talking about, you know. So Andre was still around.

00;38;29;19 - 00;38;50;11
Michael Teager
He turned heel. The Superfly Snuka was in and out of the WWF at this time. But you know, like I, I know my first house show I saw was a lead up to WrestleMania eight and the main event was a tag team of you know, Ric Flair and Sid Justice and or Sid Vicious versus Macho Man and Hulk Hogan.

00;38;50;13 - 00;38;52;27
Michael Teager
And so that was then. That was.

00;38;52;29 - 00;38;56;10
Paul Sullivan
That. That's a that's a, that's a main event. That's a legit. Yeah. Main event.

00;38;56;15 - 00;39;23;12
Michael Teager
And so and I saw wrestling a few times and I was super into WWF like hardcore from, I don't know, I was probably 4 or 5 until roughly 97. And the last time I saw a live wrestling event was when Stone Cold Steve Austin first became big. And I just, I just sort of started to lose interest and, you know, go on, you know, you realize it's not real after a while and then, you know, like you're like, yeah.

00;39;23;13 - 00;39;51;04
Michael Teager
And you're like, what? What am I watching? And I, my interest waned and I really kind of didn't think about it at all until, you know, Covid, July, July of 2020. And for whatever reason, I was practicing in the basement and I thought, you know, I don't watch a lot of new series on, on streaming or whatever, but I was thinking, I wonder if they have any of those old wrestling matches on YouTube, like I and I don't even know why.

00;39;51;04 - 00;40;14;08
Michael Teager
It popped in my mind and I went down this rabbit hole and like a week later, I subscribed to the. I was like, oh, the WWE has a network. I'm going to check this out. And it was like, it has all the old matches. And much to my surprise and almost my disappointment because I kind of thought, as with some things, I'll watch a few matches, I'll get this out of my system.

00;40;14;08 - 00;40;32;26
Michael Teager
I'll like relive the glory days for about a week, and then I'll move on to something else. You know, like I'll move on to whatever, whatever my peripheral fascination is at the time. And and it wasn't like I just sit around and watches like I put it on mute. And when I'm warming up and playing scales or something, I'm just like watching a match, you know?

00;40;32;29 - 00;40;37;28
Michael Teager
Yeah. Or, you know, I'm doing dishes and I got, a YouTube thing, but but when.

00;40;37;28 - 00;40;49;27
Paul Sullivan
When listeners, when listeners hear your music, you, your saxophone playing, it does not at all remind me, well, for me in WWE, like, so how does it help you warm up? This is.

00;40;49;29 - 00;41;06;27
Michael Teager
Okay. Well, I just, you know, I'm just. I'm just. I just find it supremely entertaining. And you know, I, I like to hear sometimes I'll wear headphones so I can hear them call the match, but because I find that I find the yelling funny. But my wife, you know, she watch. She'll see. Make sure witness me watching this because she.

00;41;06;29 - 00;41;09;00
Paul Sullivan
She she's mortified. Right. And she's.

00;41;09;06 - 00;41;10;17
Michael Teager
And she. Well, she's like.

00;41;10;19 - 00;41;13;25
Paul Sullivan
She has to be mortified. She has to just roll their eyes at you.

00;41;13;27 - 00;41;19;11
Michael Teager
Let's just say have all your interests. This is the one like I can't pin down. Like I don't know where I don't get.

00;41;19;15 - 00;41;20;27
Paul Sullivan
Pinned down, I like that.

00;41;20;29 - 00;41;41;28
Michael Teager
Yeah, exactly. You know, because I, I like various things now. I like, I like opera, I also like jazz, but I also like professional wrestling. And so, and she just says, this is so, like, ridiculous and adolescent male. She's like, I'm surprised you're so entertained by this. And I, I can't. But anyway, I say this, it's been 18 months.

00;41;42;00 - 00;42;04;06
Michael Teager
I can't break the addiction. It's become like a regular part of my routine. But the, I guess a former colleague of hers, New York Times columnist, Jamelle Bouie, but tweeted recently because he was on parental leave, that he was watching a bunch of garbage movies and he says, I do a lot of dishes these days, and trash helps keep the tedium at bay.

00;42;04;06 - 00;42;25;21
Michael Teager
Watching trash helps keep the tedium mean that's how it works for me. Like I'm not invested in the story, necessarily. I mean, and a lot of this is stuff I watched when I was little, and now I don't know if with the with Peacock, it's under Peacock. Their archives go back to the old Territories in the 70s so you can watch these old matches from like public access in Houston, LA.

00;42;25;24 - 00;42;43;00
Michael Teager
Yeah. And you know, I'm, I'm slapping all that up, and, and but it, it really reached its zenith yesterday. When I happened, I happened to see that Monday night raw is going to be in Buffalo and I April and I bought a ticket and I'm.

00;42;43;07 - 00;42;47;08
Paul Sullivan
And are you are you are you going to take your son that are you going to take him to Santa? Do you know?

00;42;47;11 - 00;43;04;02
Michael Teager
No, I, I wouldn't take he would probably be into I don't know if my wife would be wild about me taking him. Plus, it's very late, but he's not actually seen wrestling. He he he's heard me talk about it. And so he knows that there's this thing where, like, people wrestle around and he likes to wrestle anyway or roughhouse.

00;43;04;02 - 00;43;35;19
Michael Teager
And so we'll wrestle. But you know, especially I, I started a chronology rewatch. So I started at WrestleMania one. And I've been watching, you know, bits and bits and pieces in the background. I'm up to like October 98th right now. I in in the rewatch. And right now, I don't know if I would want seven year old watching some of the some of the skits that are on, on the TV, but, yeah, but it's, it's it's just this funny little thing that's popped up where I didn't think about it for decades.

00;43;35;21 - 00;43;51;13
Michael Teager
And then now it's my go to bomb in the evening if I'm watching the day, if I'm watching the dishes I put, I put on the iPad. I put it on the windowsill because there's a window right in front of the sink. Yeah. And then I just put a match on, and I unload the dishwasher and I fold laundry.

00;43;51;13 - 00;44;14;23
Michael Teager
So. And my wife is like, oh, I just, she's like, all I hear is bells ringing and people screaming from from the kitchen every night. But I'm like, you know, it's I find it just enough interesting to pay 80% attention while it's on. Yeah, but I'm not completely wrapped up and emotionally invested in it when it's not on, but it's I find it supremely entertaining.

00;44;14;23 - 00;44;37;03
Michael Teager
So, I probably with the frequency of that, I've talked about it over the last year and a half of my life. People probably get the impression that I just mainline this all the time, you know, like I. But it's just a fun little distraction. Like I said, like, this is the first live wrestling event I've been to in, decades that I'm that I'm going to in April.

00;44;37;03 - 00;44;39;27
Michael Teager
But I'm, I'm looking forward to going to be fun.

00;44;40;00 - 00;45;01;26
Paul Sullivan
This has been awesome. And you prove my point that not just humans, but lead dads are infinitely interesting and complex people. So Mike Teeger, jazz musician, early adopter of remote work, wrestling fanatic and lead dad. Thanks for joining me.

00;45;01;26 - 00;45;21;11
Michael Teager
On the couple. Thank you very much. And thank you very much for you doing this. So, I know my friend Alice put me in touch with you originally when your final article ran, and I just I thought it was, I thought it was a great thing. I thought it was a great thing to see in more mainstream, avenues.

00;45;21;13 - 00;45;23;23
Michael Teager
And so, I look forward to seeing what happens here.

00;45;23;27 - 00;45;27;04
Paul Sullivan
I really appreciate it. Thanks for, you know, being early in the community means a lot.

00;45;27;06 - 00;45;28;12
Michael Teager
So thank you.