EP22: A ‘Stunt Guitarist’ Talks About Choices & Contentment

Interview with Chris Bell / Musician, Lead Dad of Two, Guitar Master

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

A New Hampshire guy originally, Chris Bell has called Austin, Texas, home for almost two decades. A classically trained musician, he used to teach but now he is, what he calls, a ‘stunt guitarist’! He and his wife knew each other since they were kids but they reconnected 20 years ago. He’s the Lead Dad to their two boys. Most recently, he’s made a reputation for himself as a ‘luthier’ – a word I’ve been dying to use in an introduction. And he’s got some serious thoughts on the challenges of being a Lead Dad when you have a passion that conflicts with family life. Listen to hear more on stunt guitaring, guitar making and a guitar guy’s guide to Lead Dadding.

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Transcript

00;00;05;01 - 00;00;26;20
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host on a Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects to being a lead dad in a world where men often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about their parenting role. I know this from firsthand experience as the lead dad to my three girls, three dogs, three cat and three fish, who are remarkably all still alive.

00;00;26;22 - 00;00;43;29
Paul Sullivan
I did this while managing my career and striving to be an above average husband. One thing I know for sure about being a dad is it's not a normal role you're not doing with dads have traditionally done going to work and leaving the parenting to mom or someone else. Nor are you always welcome into a world where moms are the primary caregivers.

00;00;44;01 - 00;01;06;09
Paul Sullivan
But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and focus on what really matters family, friendship, finance, and fun. Today my guest is Chris Bell, a New Hampshire guy. Originally, he's called Austin, Texas, home for almost two decades. Classically trained musician. He used to teach, but now he's what he calls a stunt guitarist.

00;01;06;09 - 00;01;27;05
Paul Sullivan
More on that later. He and his wife have known each other since their kids, but they reconnected 20 years ago. He's a dad to two boys. Most recently, he's made a reputation for himself as a luthier. A word I've been dying to use in an introduction for years, and he's got some serious thoughts on the challenges of being a dad.

00;01;27;07 - 00;01;30;01
Paul Sullivan
Chris, welcome to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;30;03 - 00;01;31;24
Chris Bell
Thank you. Great to be here.

00;01;32;01 - 00;01;49;14
Paul Sullivan
You're my first luthier. I'll do I'll define that word later on for some. How compatible or incompatible is being a musician with being a husband and a father?

00;01;50;00 - 00;01;57;10
Chris Bell
Depends. Depends on what kind of musician you are. Right. Okay. Musician takes.

00;01;57;15 - 00;02;13;29
Paul Sullivan
One like you are. One. One who who who gets called in for gigs. One who had a career as a teacher. One who has a graduate degree in music. A real musician. Not not not not some guy just, you know, strumming a way to pass the time, but a real legit musician as you are.

00;02;14;01 - 00;02;20;18
Chris Bell
I would, I would say it's challenging. What was the question? How compatible?

00;02;20;21 - 00;02;21;26
Paul Sullivan
Or slightly.

00;02;21;27 - 00;02;33;19
Chris Bell
Yeah. It's like yeah, slightly. It's tough. It's tough. You know, in a nutshell. Yeah. Most of my work happens in the afternoon and in the evening time.

00;02;33;21 - 00;02;43;29
Paul Sullivan
So when your wife, when your wife's at work and your kids are at school. So, you know, that's when you have your free time. And then when they're home from work in school, that's when you actually begin your work.

00;02;44;02 - 00;03;18;01
Chris Bell
That's right. That's right. And as a parent, you know, you know, we used to refer to, you know, the hours of, 530 to 830 as the witching hour. Right. It was like, just insanity at the house. So, Yeah. So if you if you were me and you were, you know, holed up in your office teaching lessons, to, you know, students and adult professionals and whatnot, and you're you're not there, during the witching hour.

00;03;18;09 - 00;03;21;25
Chris Bell
That is, you know, it's problematic, right?

00;03;22;18 - 00;03;42;05
Paul Sullivan
I mean, again, I'm not a musician. You know, I took guitar as a kid, but I think about I did a podcast, a couple weeks ago, a fellow named Tony Maus. And Tony, is a James Beard Award winning chef, in Boston. And great, great run. You know, 20 plus years. Had his own restaurant, and he's, shifting to different things.

00;03;42;11 - 00;04;03;07
Paul Sullivan
He's a late dad now, but it was really incompatible with him being a parent because, you know, you're running your restaurant. You may not always be cooking in there, but you got to be at the restaurant because people want to see you. And I think like being a chef and being a musician is probably similar in the way that, you know, your peak hours of work go when people want to come see, nobody wants to see you at noon.

00;04;03;07 - 00;04;13;10
Paul Sullivan
They want to see you at, you know, 8:00. When they when they've left their own children at home, with a babysitter so they can go out and, forget.

00;04;13;12 - 00;04;33;22
Chris Bell
Right. It makes me laugh, because even to this day, after over 20 years of being a professional musician, I'll, you know, talk to friends or whatever, and they'll say, when are you playing next? And I'll say, oh, well, you know, I've got a gig at the blah, blah blah with the so-and-so, and they'll immediately say, oh, great.

00;04;33;22 - 00;04;42;05
Chris Bell
Well, Jen, be there. My wife, like, no, no, no, she's a she's parenting.

00;04;42;05 - 00;04;44;06
Paul Sullivan
Someone's gotta be helping kids get executives.

00;04;44;06 - 00;05;01;13
Chris Bell
Because, I mean, at this point they're sort of older and we're we don't we're moving on from babysitter and whatnot. But that always made me sort of chuckle because just like what you said it, you know, it was funny. I was like, oh, no, actually, somebody needs to be holding the fort down here. It's just not going to be possible.

00;05;01;17 - 00;05;02;04
Chris Bell
So.

00;05;02;06 - 00;05;20;03
Paul Sullivan
You know, when we've talked in the past, you told me how, you were doing. I don't want to miss. Describe it. But, like a graduate concert graduate sort of level a presentation for your master's degree. Your son was a couple weeks old at the time, and that's when. Yeah. Oh. Tell to what? Click, then what?

00;05;20;04 - 00;05;26;21
Paul Sullivan
What was it that made you realize, I'm a dad now. And a professional musician. I'm going to do some serious juggling.

00;05;26;25 - 00;06;10;16
Chris Bell
So? So we had a two year old, and I was, I went back and got my master's degree in music composition and was doing that part time and, parenting all of the above. But, yeah. So, I think two weeks after my younger son was born, I, I finished my degree and I had to give a lecture recital where I, where I performed for an hour with a small quartet and then spoke in front of the auditorium with my all of my written music and, you know, on the overhead projector and kind of discussed, you know, all musical devices.

00;06;10;16 - 00;06;13;04
Paul Sullivan
You you help, you held forth. That's it.

00;06;13;05 - 00;06;35;27
Chris Bell
Yeah, yeah. And I had I was terribly ill and they were there was construction going on next door. So it was like it was insanity. It was. It was absolute insanity. We hadn't really slept. The takeaway from that was, well, I'm capable of doing a lot more than I thought I was because the lecture went great. Yeah. And, my kids still live, you know, at doing well.

00;06;36;17 - 00;06;45;22
Paul Sullivan
But wasn't that also a moment for you in which you realized, Maybe I'm going to have to make some changes here. Maybe there were trade offs that I hadn't quite thought.

00;06;45;23 - 00;07;16;18
Chris Bell
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And I think, though it was less of a light bulb moment, but more of these, those episodes kind of adding up. Right. That there was yeah. There was a moment where where, I think after I finished my degree, you know, there was some kind of, Soul searching there about, like, well, what's going to be best for the family ecosystem?

00;07;16;21 - 00;07;45;10
Chris Bell
Yeah. And, you know, my my wife is, software developer. She's the smartest person I know. And has a wonderful career. And, you know, we live in a wonderful town, Austin, which is not only known for music, but also for high tech. But it was that there was a thing was like, okay, well, so am I going to move to, you know, Biloxi, Mississippi, and be an adjunct jazz guitar professor there?

00;07;45;12 - 00;08;12;20
Chris Bell
No, no, no, I'm not going to do that. But, you know, we live in a lovely neighborhood. School systems. Great. My wife's working, and so. Yeah. So there was a there was a real moment where I was kind of like, okay, look, you know, if, if, if indeed the goal is family. Right. And, and to work and have a successful formula here, somebody is going to have to play stay at home ball.

00;08;12;22 - 00;08;18;04
Chris Bell
Yeah. And it was going to be me. This was sort of a no brainer.

00;08;18;04 - 00;08;28;24
Paul Sullivan
Well that's hard to say. But was there any explicit conversation when you sort of said, hey, we should do this? And, you know, was it with the two year old? Was it when you son came out?

00;08;28;27 - 00;08;52;23
Chris Bell
Well, I think there was just there was it was an ongoing conversation. And then I just my wife is very supportive of my music and that's probably the understatement of the century. But yeah, we had we had a lot of conversations about about how life as a musician and sort of be gone every evening, sometimes come home at three in the morning.

00;08;52;29 - 00;09;17;29
Chris Bell
Every lead dad can relate to this one. Well, maybe not every day, but I came home from the local jazz club here at the Elephant Room, and, here's that gig was over at two. I get home at like three to my wife standing in the living room, tears streaming down her face, holding our younger son who's screaming like he's been tased.

00;09;18;01 - 00;09;37;22
Chris Bell
Right, right. And I come in with my gear. I'm like, hi. And she just hands me the kid and turns and goes straight to bed. Right. So I'm trying to get Miles, you know, my younger kid out to calm down. And right about the time I get him to calm down, the two year old's.

00;09;37;22 - 00;09;39;06
Paul Sullivan
Up, 100% back.

00;09;39;06 - 00;09;43;12
Chris Bell
Five. And what? Who? And I'm thinking, not going to it. You're not going.

00;09;43;12 - 00;09;56;04
Paul Sullivan
To skip that? Oh, yeah, I think it's going to do it. The second child I have these memory I like our our first child, you know, three daughters. She slept so well. The first one and the second one comes, I'm like, fuck this. It's easy. I'm a I'm a parent. I got I got.

00;09;56;04 - 00;09;58;06
Chris Bell
This second kid from the free throw line.

00;09;58;09 - 00;09;59;27
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I don't know if you can go.

00;09;59;27 - 00;10;02;06
Chris Bell
I mean, I don't know why you're complaining.

00;10;02;09 - 00;10;26;28
Paul Sullivan
Being a dad is easy. The second, because I, it doesn't doesn't it doesn't like believe like does it. Like that's a religion is not sleeping like she does not believe it. And so I'll same thing I'll like, you know, like island in the kitchen just doing laps, around the kitchen. Finally, I tired, I'd sit in a chair, this chair that I couldn't wait to throw out because I had so many bad memories of it, you know, was a rocking chair for babies.

00;10;27;01 - 00;10;36;29
Paul Sullivan
And I would fall asleep, you know, neck back pain. And then exactly same thing. The older one would come in and I like, oh my God, I don't I don't believe this.

00;10;36;29 - 00;11;06;21
Chris Bell
This is yeah, yeah. The conversation was happening along the way. But I said to my wife at one point, I think this seems right to me that that I think that we're fortunate enough to be in a situation where I could face my students out. I love playing live music. I love doing gigs. It's interwoven into my DNA, and I don't want to stop doing that.

00;11;07;15 - 00;11;31;10
Chris Bell
But I, I, you know, I I'll commit to sort of doing that within reason. But I think this works for me to, to maybe take more of a lead dad role. Yeah. And, and what's funny is when I, when I said that to my wife, I actually saw, like, this look on her face of relief. You know what I mean?

00;11;31;10 - 00;11;56;15
Chris Bell
Like that feeling of like, thank God that you have that you're, you know, you're willing to throw yourself on the grenade for this, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it wasn't like a light bulb moment, but it was this thing where she was like, wow, I like I really appreciate it. This is not going unnoticed, you know?

00;11;58;02 - 00;12;13;06
Paul Sullivan
When you think about if if I remember and correct me if I'm wrong here, I could be wrong. I don't know if the official model. Official model on a state crest, but like an unofficial model of Austin or something like that. Like keep Austin weird, isn't that? Yeah. So, I mean, is this a. Yeah. And I've been to Austin.

00;12;13;06 - 00;12;33;24
Paul Sullivan
It's amazing. Great barbecue music, everything. Was this a role that was easier to to do in a place like, you know, Austin? So. Okay, I'm. I'm the lead dad. I'm the primary parent. I'm the one that you're going to call, for all this stuff. My wife obviously still involved, but she's she's has less flexibility than I do.

00;12;33;26 - 00;12;45;22
Paul Sullivan
Or did you find, you know, some challenges in being accepted by, you know, the other parents predominantly put on my mom's?

00;12;47;19 - 00;13;16;11
Chris Bell
I think the real challenge was with myself. I was thinking about this the other day, too. On some level. Being a musician is such an odd career. And many folks don't know what that actually means. You know, to, you know, I'm going to go make a record for somebody and then a couple days in the studio and and that job is over, right?

00;13;16;11 - 00;13;32;13
Chris Bell
I didn't get fired, but that job is over. Right. And then, then I go play a wedding, then I go play the jazz club, then I go do a honky tonk gig, and then I do it. You know, it was just kind of like this wacky thing. And there are different times, right? It's just sort of. It's kind of nuts.

00;13;32;15 - 00;13;58;01
Chris Bell
Right? So, so I did I did live a strange existence already. And on some level, that prepared me for the stay at home dad thing where like, yeah, there's a parent teacher thing. I need to go in right. I'm going to I'm going to go in and talk to the teacher and say, oh yeah, you know, your kid was struggling with the math thing or this, right?

00;13;58;03 - 00;14;19;03
Chris Bell
Yeah. So on some level, like, yeah, I was already there. But yeah. But then on the other hand, yeah, it's, you know, it's challenges of sort of like getting that straight in your head. I mean, I am kind of a, you know, but sort of a selfish musician, right? I mean, all musicians are kind of into their own thing.

00;14;19;03 - 00;14;42;11
Chris Bell
They practice and they are focused and they work on their own saying, you know, oh, I have to tell my musician friends, you know, being a parent made me a better person because I'm not always thinking it's about me all the time. Which is what musicians do, right? Constantly working on my art. Yeah. I'm such a sensitive artist, you know, but.

00;14;42;18 - 00;15;05;16
Chris Bell
But the role of Lee dad having to actually, like, I have one, you know, poopy kid sprinting this direction, and it's like, you know, trying to take care of all of these things, you know? And of course, as they get older, it's like navigating the grocery store and kung fu and soccer. You all right? In a way, it's afforded me.

00;15;05;19 - 00;15;24;03
Paul Sullivan
Meaning, like being the the lead dad kind of took you out of yourself. You weren't thinking, okay, I need to practice and do this. I yeah. You're not. You can't see perfection. You can't try to play a song, you know? Perfect. You can't. Kids are not parenting you. You're not going to achieve perfection. Because as soon as you think, oh, fuck, I'm awesome, I just did that.

00;15;24;05 - 00;15;25;12
Paul Sullivan
And then something else happens.

00;15;25;15 - 00;15;39;27
Chris Bell
That's right. And then it's just a complete shit show right after that. Yeah, yeah. So anyway. Yeah. So it's great, right? I mean, it's like where there's some challenges. Absolutely, absolutely. Yes. I think, but I think the more the challenges were in my.

00;15;39;27 - 00;15;55;10
Paul Sullivan
Head, how did you resolve that? How did you resolve the challenge? Because, you know, so many leaders I talked to say similar things. I mean, how did you come to terms with those, you know, challenges in, in your head? Like we think that the moms are judging is you think that other dads are judging us? Sure. Go to it.

00;15;55;11 - 00;16;03;24
Paul Sullivan
But maybe they just don't care. They don't give a shit at all. They're they're focused on their own thing. And it's it's it's in our own head to how did you, you know, make peace with that.

00;16;03;27 - 00;16;51;13
Chris Bell
Yeah. It's an ongoing process. That, it's like anything, it's like exercise building, building up this idea. Not not, you know, not to get to, Philosophical about it, but, expectation is the root of all suffering. Yeah. Right. And, and on some level, there was a realization that, I'm the luckiest person in the, you know, but not for anything that I anticipated or for anything trivial like I'm actually really lucky in all the important ways.

00;16;51;15 - 00;17;17;08
Chris Bell
And I have a wonderful wife and, you know, good looking, healthy kids, right? You know, like, like, I won on all these all these amazing levels. But yeah, it's all right. We all are. I mean, we all a lot of us, would like to get out there and do it, make a mark achieve. Right. And maybe that's a societal thing.

00;17;17;08 - 00;17;42;28
Chris Bell
It's like, what do you do? How are you out there sticking it to the man? And it's it can be tough. I think. Yeah. When you're slugging it out to forget that actually, maybe the thing you're doing is developing a wonderful relationship with your kids and your wider. Sure. Right. Okay. So here's here's an interesting story that I like to share with people.

00;17;42;28 - 00;18;12;05
Chris Bell
So there's there's a guy in town who I admire greatly is fantastic musician. And, back when we, we taught at this private music school together, and, my buddies for 10 or 15 years older than I am. This was this had to be 20 years ago. But he said, Oh, yeah. My daughter is getting her, driver's license now we're teaching her to drive.

00;18;12;07 - 00;18;35;29
Chris Bell
And I said, hey, man, are you freaking out? So make you like a nervous wreck? And at the time, I didn't have kids. Yeah. And he said, let me tell you something about kids. It's kind of like a savings account. Showing up every day is a big thing, right? Had I not showed up every day up until she was 16 years old, I would be worried sick.

00;18;36;01 - 00;18;36;17
Paul Sullivan
Yeah.

00;18;36;19 - 00;19;10;01
Chris Bell
But I've been present from the beginning to hear. And at this point, you know, my kid is is growing up, and I've done everything I can to help her make the right decisions. Right. And all I can do is let her go. Yeah. And do her thing. And that resonated very deeply with me, you know, and I think, you know, then going into, you know, a few years later I started having kids and yeah, just this whole evolution that work that brings us together right.

00;19;10;03 - 00;19;15;21
Chris Bell
So that made an impact on me. I was like, okay, I'm going to need to be present here.

00;19;15;23 - 00;19;44;13
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. It's we made a decision early on that our kids and it's more or less worked out, that we would eat dinner together. And we've been fortunate with the timing and schedules that for the most part, like, we can be there like six 3615, 630 and eat dinner and some nights maybe 20% of the nights. It's amazing.

00;19;44;13 - 00;20;06;04
Paul Sullivan
Like last night was amazing. We talked about all kinds of different things. It was great. Yeah. And some portion of the night, greater than 20%, maybe like 35% are awful because everybody is yelling and screaming each other. Oh my God. Each agreeing to have three. You're almost a teenager. I'm not going to negotiate. Yeah, some vegetables eat. I'm eating them.

00;20;06;04 - 00;20;13;16
Paul Sullivan
You eat them. Yeah. And then the are the remaining eat whatever that is 45% or so is, is it just that you're just there, but it's like.

00;20;13;18 - 00;20;14;05
Chris Bell
Yeah.

00;20;14;08 - 00;20;35;01
Paul Sullivan
If you only if I only showed up for dinner once a week and it was one of the bad nights, I'd be like, man, this is awful. Or if I, you know, you eat well and we have, you know, you know, now that the kids are all you hear and parents are saying, you they come home and say, oh, yeah, you know, so and so they feed the kids, and then send the kids to do their own thing.

00;20;35;01 - 00;20;50;21
Paul Sullivan
And then the husband and wife eat alone. And there's one night that's particularly bad. And my wife, I said, why don't you do that? Like, I don't know, maybe we should, but it's not who we are, like. And and I looked at it like our kids, for good or bad, will remember that we were there. We really, you know.

00;20;50;22 - 00;21;02;09
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, we we were there and we were present and we listened and we tried to set a good example, and we ate our vegetables so we could tell them to do the vegetables.

00;21;02;12 - 00;21;31;15
Chris Bell
Yeah. It reminds me of I was riding to San Antonio doing a steakhouse gig, and the guy driving was a new dad, and he was, you know, feeling a lot of the pressures and the challenges and the drummer on the gig sitting in the passenger seat, he's not married, doesn't have kids, so that the new dad is talking to me and, you know, telling me all this crazy stuff.

00;21;31;15 - 00;21;59;05
Chris Bell
Of course, I'm sitting in the back laughing, just thinking like, oh yeah, man, I totally, I completely relate to I remember, I remember like that right? And the guy in the passenger seat said, you guys are scared the shit out of. And I said to him, wow, man. Let me tell you this. Parents in the company of not the non parent person.

00;21;59;05 - 00;22;22;17
Chris Bell
I don't mean this like that. Everybody should have children or in you're a bad person if you don't. But but I was like but you know there's a lot of subtle things just this to your point. Like there are a lot of things that are hard to report, to you if you're not there or if you don't have kids and, those are wonderful.

00;22;23;07 - 00;22;49;14
Chris Bell
But sometimes they're hard to articulate. Maybe, maybe it is just sort of like a dinner where everybody didn't yell at each other. And that's a and I would win back on it. You're actually right. There's, there's there are moments where you're kind of like there was a real special love, you know? And I just said a lot of times it's it's, you know, it's it's easier for conversation for us to joke about these silly things about, you know, me coming home late at night, and Jennifer had to be the crying baby and not getting any sleep.

00;22;49;20 - 00;23;09;02
Chris Bell
That's something you could probably relate to, right? But but there's a certain aspect, you know, of this thing that is very sweet, that maybe it's hard to articulate. So don't, don't, don't be flipped out about it. It's it's okay. There's actually a lot of wonderful stuff, you know.

00;23;09;04 - 00;23;32;01
Paul Sullivan
It's I agree. And it's one of those things where, you know, I have obviously high aspirations for the company does. But like one of the things if I could help accomplish it, we've got a point now where if you early, dad, and you're working at a company or you this and you have a boss, even if you somehow put down, going to, child's soccer game, it's acceptable.

00;23;32;01 - 00;23;48;17
Paul Sullivan
You can you can go out. You go to soccer. Sure. But if you were to put down, this is what I would like to accomplish if you were to put down, child needs a walk and a talk and maybe an ice cream with dad and blocked out the same amount of time in your calendar. People have them.

00;23;48;18 - 00;24;07;19
Paul Sullivan
What a fucking lazy bastard that guy is that people? But it's like, yeah, if we say it for something, we say the ballet recital, the soccer game, the, you know, middle school graduation, whatever it is, you can get out for that. But if you say, you know, look like this important work, you know, my work is important, but parenting is important, and I got it.

00;24;07;19 - 00;24;17;19
Paul Sullivan
You know, I just know my kid, and I know my kid needs just, you know, and the only way a child, you know, we all know this, like, the best conversations you have are when you're alone with one of your kids and you're just driving.

00;24;17;19 - 00;24;19;16
Chris Bell
And that's right. You're trapped in the car.

00;24;19;17 - 00;24;33;17
Paul Sullivan
You drive the car, but it doesn't happen in, like, the first five minutes. It happens at some, you know, random point as you go on. So I would love to us to get to a point as a society where you can say, look, I'm still gonna do everything I have to do. You don't need command and control.

00;24;33;17 - 00;24;39;22
Paul Sullivan
You don't need to tell me it. But but I just I know that my son daughter need to take a walk and.

00;24;39;24 - 00;25;02;24
Chris Bell
Yeah, absolutely. Or just not be flipped out. You know, like, I think in our phone conversation, we covered this ground of, like, going to, company meeting with my wife. Right. And so I'm meeting her coworkers. It's obviously pre-pandemic. We don't do that anymore. Right. Shaking hands anyway. Yeah. They say, well, what do you do? Well, I say I'm a stay at home dad.

00;25;02;26 - 00;25;04;29
Chris Bell
Right. To be able to, like, lay that down.

00;25;04;29 - 00;25;05;29
Paul Sullivan
To say it and.

00;25;06;03 - 00;25;32;12
Chris Bell
Have people say whatever you want. I mean, or be okay with that, right? Because it's tough. It's tough. I mean, I do deeply believe that that's a higher calling, right? I mean, that it's a it's a worthy thing, you know. Yeah, I know we're experiencing it. That's great. Right. But yeah, it's intense. Right. It's intense because it's it's it's not the norm.

00;25;32;14 - 00;25;41;26
Chris Bell
Wouldn't it be great if people were like, man, that's really like all of a sudden you let that out. And then the next response was, wow, that's fantastic. Tell me about your kids.

00;25;41;26 - 00;25;59;19
Paul Sullivan
If you tell people like, you know, yeah, I'm a jazz guitarist, like, oh, man, you know, in college I play guitar and you never do this. And wouldn't it be great if if you said, I'm a dad? I'm a lay down a really? So. Okay, I got a question for you about my child. You know, because you're around your child a lot more.

00;25;59;19 - 00;26;04;17
Paul Sullivan
And here's my question. Have you ever had this, this and this happen? And you like your kids?

00;26;04;17 - 00;26;07;11
Chris Bell
Yeah. How many kids do you you ever run into this, right?

00;26;07;11 - 00;26;08;13
Paul Sullivan
Like, yes.

00;26;08;15 - 00;26;19;20
Chris Bell
Boom. Right there instead of, like, you know, they take their beverage and water off because they're like, I try not to talk to my kids, you know? You know what I mean? Like like, right.

00;26;19;22 - 00;26;38;13
Paul Sullivan
I look, I remember when I would tell people, you know, I was at the New York Times for 13 years and you'd meet people particularly, sort of from 2006 and on, and they'd say, do you know Maggie Haberman? Do you know, Matt, you Maggie Haberman, of course, cover Donald Trump. You know what, a Pulitzer? Amazing reporter. And I don't, though it's a wild story.

00;26;38;13 - 00;26;56;25
Paul Sullivan
She dated my friend freshman year in college and to across all. But I don't know her at all. But I always wish, like, if I had met her, like, when she became really famous, I would have loved to have had, like, acid to just, like, sign, like 20 pieces of paper. And when people said to me, like, do you know Maggie Haberman, I was like, here's your autograph.

00;26;56;26 - 00;27;11;09
Paul Sullivan
I could hand out. It's like, but imagine if people would say the same to get that excited about, and you got an 11th grade. I got an 11th grader. I got a real question here. Let's pivot a bit. I want to talk a bit about you. And because I want to use the word Liz here again.

00;27;11;12 - 00;27;31;09
Paul Sullivan
Okay. Luthier is somebody who makes instruments out of wood and string, and you make incredible guitars, under the brand Bell Tower Guitars. What did they like? You know what? How did you get into this? How did you decide to, you know, do you have a guitar around you can show? Like, how did you decide to sort of.

00;27;31;16 - 00;27;35;19
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, make guitars. And, I want to hear.

00;27;35;22 - 00;27;52;08
Chris Bell
It's a great story. Here's here's one. This is, this is, one of mine. So this this guy, Sunday, I have to go play, jazz brunch gig. So I'll. I'll bring this guy with me.

00;27;52;11 - 00;27;54;19
Paul Sullivan
Does it, does it have a name? Is that like, Lucille or.

00;27;54;21 - 00;28;00;21
Chris Bell
Well, So this this model is the Lucha or.

00;28;00;24 - 00;28;02;07
Paul Sullivan
Oh, the fighter, I like it.

00;28;02;13 - 00;28;19;06
Chris Bell
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I make several different kinds. I'll bore you with one more. These are like. Like you didn't ask to see pictures of the kids. So I will torture with, like, pictures of kids, but I could torture pictures of guitars. So.

00;28;19;19 - 00;28;23;18
Paul Sullivan
That's me. Wow, baby. Oh, yeah. Like, so.

00;28;23;21 - 00;28;40;07
Chris Bell
Yeah. Yeah. So that one, this one will go, there's a honky tonk gig a week from Friday, so I'll go play like, kind of, Bakersfield country music. And they'll people will be two step in and I'll be playing that guy.

00;28;40;09 - 00;28;46;26
Paul Sullivan
But what's at the bar? What is that bar called? What's the bar called that's on there? Well, oh, the winning bar whammy. That's what I.

00;28;46;28 - 00;29;13;19
Chris Bell
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So the guitar story is, is awesome. So. Yeah. So I gave up teaching, became a, lead. Dad, I've continued to play gigs. In the evening, but I don't overdo. I play a couple times a week. I pay about 100 gigs a year. I don't get in a van and I don't go on tour.

00;29;13;25 - 00;29;41;05
Chris Bell
I just I stayed at home. Right. So I got my. Yeah, yeah, I was out a couple nights a week, doing all kinds of different music for people. And it's great. Then the kids, which is public school. So, you know, there was there was a lot of free time that I got back. Right? So all of a sudden now it's like, well, I got the, the boys were going to a neighborhood school, so I'd walk them over to school a couple blocks away.

00;29;41;05 - 00;30;08;20
Chris Bell
It's awesome. We got a skateboarding skateboard over there and back, and then I'm back here and I've got, you know, time on my hands. And of course, there's all kinds of, you know, glamorous lead dad stuff, like laundry and grocery shopping and prepping meals and all that sort of stuff. But but yeah, I was like, okay, well, you know, do like a couple of records a year, but the rest of the time I'm really kind of free during the daytime.

00;30;08;22 - 00;30;28;25
Chris Bell
And I, I did some odds and ends things. I was not handy. I helped my brother, who's, he's a finished carpenter, and. And if he were on the podcast, he would laugh. Oh, I said I didn't. I don't even know what end of the hammer to use. I mean, like, I was completely clueless, right? A total guitar player.

00;30;29;12 - 00;30;52;10
Chris Bell
And I mentioned to another Lee dad, in town, I said, hey, Mark, I'm thinking about, you know, getting a part time job, you know, try to stay out of trouble. And he said, hey, you know, there's a place in town that makes beautiful mandolins. And I'm friends with one of the guys that works there. I think they're looking for somebody.

00;30;52;10 - 00;31;05;06
Chris Bell
And I said, oh, man, that's sort of way above my pay grade. You know, like, I was like, I'm completely not happy. He goes, no, no, no. If I remember correctly, I don't think they want somebody coming in there thinking that they know anything like I think this is.

00;31;05;11 - 00;31;09;29
Paul Sullivan
But you were, like, sweeping the shavings off the floor, like. Well, where do you start with that? Yeah.

00;31;10;02 - 00;31;35;02
Chris Bell
That's exactly where it went. I went in there and here's me being the luckiest guy in the world who interviews me, but a guy who's, from Vermont. Right. My folks moved us to Vermont when I, started high school. And then I did my undergraduate at the University of Vermont. So, of course, on my resume, here's my music stuff, but it says, oh, I graduated from the university of Vermont.

00;31;35;02 - 00;31;47;21
Chris Bell
In such and such a year, the guy interviewed me, looks down and said, me too. He graduated from Vermont the same year, and his family's from the same town in Vermont that my wife's family's from. So who gets the job?

00;31;47;24 - 00;31;49;05
Paul Sullivan
Make that guy?

00;31;49;07 - 00;32;13;22
Chris Bell
This is this is when I win, right? Yeah. So, yeah. So, it it was it was almost sweep the shavings up, right? It was basically like, you know, here's here's a block of wood. Here's how the grain goes. This is how you look at the grain. This is what you. And that's how it started. It was like absolute beginning.

00;32;13;24 - 00;32;35;22
Chris Bell
And then they'd say, hey, you know, just run this through the planer and this is how this sort of planer works. So for two and a half years I went over there and, you know, I think it's fair to say I'm pretty good hand-eye coordination. I played ice hockey, and I'm a golfer, you know, like, like a pretty athletic guy.

00;32;35;24 - 00;32;59;19
Chris Bell
Done martial arts. So it's like when they started handing me stuff, I could work with my hands and they realized, oh, jeez, this guy can figure it out. Yeah. So yeah. So I did that for two, two and a half years. And then finally, I was I started buying tools and started messing. I like I think the first thing I did was I made, I made, a guitar neck.

00;32;59;25 - 00;33;13;17
Chris Bell
This. Yeah. That was a, that was a start. And then I think my wife was like, why don't you just, like, build a shop and just start making guitars? I mean, you work in a mandolin shop, but really, you're a guitar player, right? So I was like.

00;33;13;17 - 00;33;17;29
Paul Sullivan
And then she said, remember how I used to always make fun of those mandolin makers before you were.

00;33;18;01 - 00;33;36;13
Chris Bell
Yeah, yeah. So that was basically the deal. Again, going back to the my wife being supportive, of course. That. Yeah. So I built a shop in my backyard and started making guitars first just for like I made a few for me. And then close friends said, oh, look at that. You want to make me one? Okay, sure.

00;33;36;13 - 00;33;46;11
Chris Bell
Great. But I'll make you one. Yeah. And and, yeah, I've been doing it since 2000, 15 or 16 maybe.

00;33;46;18 - 00;33;48;22
Paul Sullivan
That's great. When did you grow on your own?

00;33;49;03 - 00;33;53;07
Chris Bell
It's awesome. I guess 34 years ago.

00;33;53;10 - 00;34;15;25
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. It reminds me of a story that's going to sound completely unrelated, but, for my first book was called clutch, about why some people do well on pressure and others don't do well under pressure by some people are clutch and other people choke. I went up to West Point and spent a lot of time with some of the cadets and some of the professors, and kind of get deep into sort of how they train you to be, a soldier.

00;34;15;25 - 00;34;50;11
Paul Sullivan
And I remember, reading at one point that, you know, the best marksman, in the Army, and I'm sure every branch but the best marksman. And I asked Mario and spent some time with the Navy Seals later on at the times. And the best shooters were not the ones who grew up hunting and, you know, go around with their parents and you had to shoot some of the best ones were the ones who had never fired a rifle before in their life, because if you just listened to what the instructors were telling you about marksmanship and how to fire a rifle, they knew exactly how to do it.

00;34;50;11 - 00;35;05;07
Paul Sullivan
So you would have no bad habits. And this is how you do it. This is what you do it. And and because you didn't know anything, you just listened. But all the ones who came in and said, oh, I killed a deer when I was 12 or whatever, they had all these bad habits, and they were never as good as the ones that were a blank slate.

00;35;05;07 - 00;35;08;15
Paul Sullivan
And I'm wondering if that's how was it you and mandolin making?

00;35;08;18 - 00;35;40;29
Chris Bell
I have some thoughts about this. Okay. And it does relate to being a lead that I think. I think that, being a student is a learned skill. And by that I mean, I had this experience of, I went to college, became a professional guitar player. Then I was like, but I can't read music.

00;35;40;29 - 00;36;10;11
Chris Bell
I don't really know a lot of playing these kind of rock R&B bands, but I want to I want to be a professional guitar player. So at 25, I moved to Boston and I went to the Berklee College of Music, and I was a lot older than a lot in the 18 year old. Right. And it was a humbling, moment to, to having been an adult living on my own, right, making a living in this thing that I'm now going back to the beginning.

00;36;10;14 - 00;36;42;11
Chris Bell
Right. And sort of assuming the the mindset of a student and say, okay, I'm here to learn. Right? So, and then, you know, reconnect with my wife. I come down here, do some stuff on teaching. I decide, you know, not really. Maybe maybe I would like to be a professor. I went back to school again. This time I'm in my early 30s and I'm back with 22 year old kids in grad school.

00;36;42;16 - 00;37;14;03
Chris Bell
Right. And the point I'm trying to make is that I think that, like this thing of of like going back into a situation where you, you put on the, the, the hat of the student, right? You stop saying, let me tell you, teacher, what I know about this subject. Right. Like, so these guys that became great shooters maybe didn't have experience, but they did have the ability to let their ego go away and listen to the instructor.

00;37;14;08 - 00;37;48;25
Chris Bell
And the instructor would say, hey, man, you got to do it like this. And they say, okay, I'm going to try it like that before I judge. Before I think I got a better idea, right? I'm going to just. Right. Yeah. And they're and they become good at it. Right. And so I think this this this works with the parenting thing too, is again, on some level, when I'm handed this new thing, which is lead dad, and I don't have a print for it, I do have some experience about being okay with the fact that I'm in a situation where I'm being humbled.

00;37;48;28 - 00;38;14;09
Chris Bell
I don't know. Yeah, right. You know, that's a it's a big thing. It's a it's a real skill, you know? Anyway, it's something I sort of feel like I've kind of noticed, and I think it sort of relates to the clutch thing, too, right? Is that after a period of time, there's a there's a moment where I think, like, I think I can figure this out.

00;38;15;05 - 00;38;34;05
Chris Bell
You know, I don't really know, I don't know anything about this thing that we're talking about. Right. But I figured other stuff out. Yeah. You know I figured out how to bend would overheat and steam right. You know like like you know I mean like I, I figured out some pretty difficult things. I think I could do.

00;38;34;05 - 00;38;46;20
Paul Sullivan
This thing would over heat and steam. And I'm wondering, like, about how I've built our guitars. This there, but why not? Why don't you call it like this? Like like Lex Luthier? What about Lex Luthor? Oh, well. So.

00;38;46;26 - 00;39;13;14
Chris Bell
Bell Tower is a nickname of mine. I'm 65, and of course, my last name is Bell. And so, my buddies, at the University of Vermont, a nickname me the bell tower. Yeah, right. So bell towers, I was sort of stuck. And, I want to show you this, too. So my my, logo here is a luchador mask with a bell in the.

00;39;13;17 - 00;39;14;13
Paul Sullivan
Oh, wow.

00;39;14;14 - 00;39;33;11
Chris Bell
Yeah. And, and and, this woman who, is a friend of my wife's who's a designer, she said, why don't you let me when I was making guitars, she said, well, why don't you let me take a stab at coming up with a logo for you? In our conversations, I was talking to her about music and, like, my thoughts on music.

00;39;33;14 - 00;39;57;15
Chris Bell
And I said, you know, when I was a young guy playing music, I was not the best guitar player among my my young friends. But I stuck with it. And I'm a hard worker and, on some level, in my mind, I relate being a professional musician to being like a cage fighter. If you could just stay alive in there long enough, right?

00;39;57;19 - 00;40;21;09
Chris Bell
You you're going to kind of somehow you're going to get your opportunity right, you know, and it's basically like it's a, it's a, it's a cage match to the death, you know. And so in those conversations we were talking about it. And then she sent me the, the lucha door mask with the bell. And I just it was like the clouds broke open and angels were singing.

00;40;21;09 - 00;40;27;07
Chris Bell
I was like, that's it. That is. That's totally the logo.

00;40;27;10 - 00;40;39;24
Paul Sullivan
In case some people come into this conversation like, you are a jazz guitarist, you are not like a heavy metal guitarist or like death metal, like slamming the guitar, but still the struggle. I like it right?

00;40;39;24 - 00;41;06;15
Chris Bell
And even like, like to narrow it down. I'm really into like the 50s acoustic jazz. Kenny Burrell, Barney Castle, Greg Green, like, like like the real acoustic sound. It's not like jazz rock of the 70s. That's fine. It's cool, it's fine. But. But yeah, I'm definitely like an old school enthusiast, so. Yeah. So that we got this kind of wild logo on the.

00;41;06;15 - 00;41;09;03
Chris Bell
Yeah, I love it on the guitar.

00;41;09;05 - 00;41;25;20
Paul Sullivan
Chris, thank you for being a guest today. I always like to give the guests the sort of last word, you know, take whoever you want. Best thing, worst thing, most memorable thing, and vice. You have two other the dads. What what what comes to mind, boy?

00;41;28;11 - 00;42;14;12
Chris Bell
That's a good question. I did a record for a guy. And there was a lyric in one of his songs, that resonated with me. I'm in the control booth with the headphones, and I hear him sing something to the effect of trying to understand. My wants versus my needs. And it resonated with me for a while, and I thought, you know, that's a great line about, like, I was, you think I want this or I want that, but like, do I really need that?

00;42;14;14 - 00;42;37;06
Chris Bell
Right? So trying to understand, trying to understand like your, your wants and your needs and trying to kind of figure out. What those are to you or. Right. I'm trying to get settled in here about what it is, what your priorities are.

00;42;37;06 - 00;42;52;16
Paul Sullivan
Don't you like like a grip on a song because like, yeah, you can keep it down. You can really pare it down and like, okay, I may want that, but here's what I really need. And I need this not just like to survive, but I need this for happiness. A sense of self, a sense of purpose. Yeah. That's right.

00;42;52;16 - 00;43;17;22
Chris Bell
Yeah, yeah. Like I think I said to you earlier, you know, did I want Wayne Shorter to call me and take me out on tour when I was younger? Absolutely. I did, yeah. Was that going to work with the things I needed to do? You know, like like, you know, like like I want this, but really you, you know, like, is that would that actually be good?

00;43;17;22 - 00;43;18;24
Chris Bell
If I got that?

00;43;18;27 - 00;43;31;02
Paul Sullivan
Well, then I have to ask, you know, your kids are older. You know, things are going well. Herbie Hancock band calls up and says, we know we need the Bell tower. Three month tour. Hop in the van. What do you say.

00;43;31;04 - 00;43;35;06
Chris Bell
There would be a summit with the wife? For sure.

00;43;35;08 - 00;43;38;10
Paul Sullivan
I would head into her office and with some that I got.

00;43;38;10 - 00;43;40;21
Chris Bell
To sit down. Yeah, that would be great.

00;43;40;23 - 00;43;45;19
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Chris Bell, thank you again. I've thoroughly enjoyed our time. Thank you so much.

00;43;45;21 - 00;43;47;14
Chris Bell
Yeah, that's great to be here. Thank you.