EP55: Why Expectations Are The Key To Parenting Success

Interview With Sue Groner / The Parenting Mentor

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

All the myriad questions that parents have about their children can be boiled down into one, single issue: expectations, says Sue Groner, aka The Parenting Mentor. Coming out of The Wharton School, Groner didn't imagine that her career would take her into a world of coaching parents to manage - or in corporate speak, right-size - their expectations for their children. But coaching led to a book - Parenting With Sanity and Joy - and a career where she helps parents at home and in the workplace. Listen to her actionable tips for working dads and moms.

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Transcript

00;00;05;23 - 00;00;29;11
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Today, my guest is Sue Groner, founder of The Parenting Mentor, which coaches parents from birth to teen. She's also the author of parenting with Joy and sanity. And give it a little sort of shout out right here. Great book. Thin, not too hard to read, and I'm really grateful that she's joined me today.

00;00;29;12 - 00;00;32;11
Paul Sullivan
Welcome, Sue to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;00;32;13 - 00;00;34;04
Sue Groner
Thanks. Happy to be here.

00;00;34;06 - 00;00;37;22
Paul Sullivan
How did you become the parenting mentor?

00;00;37;24 - 00;00;42;17
Sue Groner
Well, the first way I guess I became one was by being a parent.

00;00;42;19 - 00;00;43;24
Paul Sullivan
So you got a couple decades.

00;00;43;24 - 00;00;54;20
Sue Groner
Experience for decades? Yeah. My kids are 23 and 25, and I learned a lot along the way. I joke that I wish I had me when my kids were younger, and.

00;00;54;20 - 00;00;57;22
Paul Sullivan
But you did, you did. You said a different version of you.

00;00;57;25 - 00;01;20;18
Sue Groner
Yeah, I did, but I didn't have the parenting mentor version. So. But now I can offer all of my wisdom to others. And, you know, the other thing is, a lot of people kept asking me questions, you know, asking for advice. What should I do? What do you think about this? I'm having a problem. And I would give advice and say, give me feedback.

00;01;20;18 - 00;01;27;26
Sue Groner
I want to know. And then people started to tell me how good my advice was, and I was better than their therapist. And you know.

00;01;28;03 - 00;01;32;11
Paul Sullivan
You have a back and you you have a background in psychology. You know, you went to Wharton, right? Did I make a dime?

00;01;32;13 - 00;01;40;09
Sue Groner
I did, no, I did, But yeah, I guess just a lot of interpersonal interactions. You know what?

00;01;40;09 - 00;02;00;18
Paul Sullivan
What was the moment that made you want to take it from. Okay, here are my friends, and we're talking through things as as parents in this together to. You know what? I want to see if I can help, more people. I want to see if I can broaden this out and, and, you know, help people be be better parents and and presumably, you know, happier human beings.

00;02;00;18 - 00;02;03;13
Paul Sullivan
What was a moment where you started to to want to blow that out of this?

00;02;03;14 - 00;02;21;02
Sue Groner
You know, if there really wasn't a particular moment, it was something that was sort of percolating for a while. And I was I was doing something else at the time, but I wanted to do this too. And then I realized, you know, this was going to be a full time gig. And so I really started to focus on it.

00;02;21;02 - 00;02;27;12
Sue Groner
But I, you know, and sometimes it sounds a little like Miss America when I say I wanted something I could help. I want to help people.

00;02;27;19 - 00;02;35;06
Paul Sullivan
But it's only in this America, if you play the piano and toss a baton while talking. I feel free to do that. It would be great viewing.

00;02;35;08 - 00;03;03;02
Sue Groner
I can play the piano. I just can't talk to the baton. So I guess I'm out of luck. But I did want to do something that felt really worthwhile to me. You know, I do, like you said, you know, going to war. And I have a business background, and I love creative problem solving. But when I was able to add in the element of really, you know, I was helping other parents not deal with some of the crap that I did.

00;03;03;05 - 00;03;03;21
Paul Sullivan
Yeah.

00;03;03;23 - 00;03;07;09
Sue Groner
It felt really good. And it does feel really good now.

00;03;07;11 - 00;03;21;02
Paul Sullivan
What do you think if you look at, you know, the years of doing this, this sort of, you know, either top questions you get or top problems that you're asked to help solve. What are those what one, two and three? There.

00;03;21;05 - 00;03;46;10
Sue Groner
You know, I think it all sort of falls under one category. And that is my kids aren't doing what I want them to do. My kids aren't acting the way I want them to. My kids aren't behaving the way I think they should. And so it becomes, you know, from a very young age till they're kids or teens or even adult children, they're not doing what I want them to do.

00;03;46;12 - 00;04;05;20
Sue Groner
They're not the kind of people I want them to be. There's a lot of judgment. There's a lot of expectation and there's disappointment. And it comes down to sort of like the engineering process. It's what I call it. You know, and we parenting is not an engineering project.

00;04;05;22 - 00;04;11;24
Paul Sullivan
It's not kids are not kids are not bridges kids. They're not they're not we're not building the new Tappan Zee Bridge with our kids.

00;04;11;26 - 00;04;21;21
Sue Groner
Right. And I usually start with that statement. Parenting is not an 18 year engineering project. And like, like everybody else, it'd be.

00;04;21;21 - 00;04;27;06
Paul Sullivan
Even more expensive than it is. It'd be even more expensive than it already is if we're trying to build a bridge out of our kids.

00;04;27;08 - 00;04;44;02
Sue Groner
Right? But when you think about it, we sort of do go to that place, you know, even in utero. Sometimes we'll play music and we'll do all these things to help develop their brains. So they'll be the smartest kid.

00;04;44;05 - 00;05;03;12
Paul Sullivan
A serious note, though, because I think of, My wife and I are weirdos, so that's not something we would come to you with because it's, you know, we want our kids to be the best version of themselves that they can be. Whatever that is. So I'm going to ask you this question. When parents come to you and say, you know, my child isn't behaving the way I want my child to behave.

00;05;03;13 - 00;05;27;27
Paul Sullivan
My child isn't doing what I want to do. Is the problem really the parent is primarily the parents expectation or the parent not seeing that, you know, I've got three kids or all girls, but the, you know, they're completely different human beings. So in that sense, are you working as much with the parent to sort of adjust his or her expectation as you are with, working with the kid to bring his or her behavior in line with parental.

00;05;28;00 - 00;06;01;19
Sue Groner
I don't work with the child at all. Yeah, I only work with the kid with the parent, but. Yeah. Yeah, it's. I would say it's more about perspective. An expectation. I mean I guess expectation falls into the perspective category. And so it's really the perspective comes from understanding why your kid is acting the way they are. And and really trying to get to the bottom of that and also understanding how old they are.

00;06;01;21 - 00;06;16;04
Sue Groner
You know we when our kids like so good at certain things and seem so mature at certain things, we kind of forget they're still maybe eight years old, you know, and and there's so much to learn.

00;06;16;06 - 00;06;16;24
Paul Sullivan
Yeah.

00;06;16;26 - 00;06;40;01
Sue Groner
And it takes a long time. And kids actually do evolve and change and develop and become more mature human beings. But, you know, the brain's not fully formed to 25 years old. So for an eight year old, they've got a long way to go still. And so I think that's really helpful to understand from, you know, starting out okay.

00;06;40;01 - 00;07;11;22
Sue Groner
They're only eight. They've been around for only eight years on this earth. And look at how much they've learned already in that short period of time. Now how do I work with them. How do I help them and guide them as opposed to dictate to them what I want them to be and how I want them to act and what sports I want them to play and etc. etc..

00;07;11;24 - 00;07;30;16
Paul Sullivan
But with that eight year old or a 12 year old or a 16 year old is the question. You know, they're not doing what I want to do. Is that revolving around, academics is a revolving around athletics or is it in general, like, you know, decent human being, you know, qualities that that parents or are concerned about.

00;07;30;18 - 00;07;32;00
Sue Groner
All of the above. Right.

00;07;32;07 - 00;08;03;16
Paul Sullivan
All these I mean, I'm talking to you. You're you're in Westchester County. I'm across the state line in Fairfield County. You know, New York and Connecticut to super affluent, super high achieving parts of the country, where their expectations, you know, on ourselves are as humans are, are high. Therefore they trickle down to our, our children. Is that part of, you know, the issues here, like, as you said, that the expectations of a parent for an eight year old are not realistic for what an eight year old is, is likely able to, accomplish.

00;08;03;18 - 00;08;36;08
Sue Groner
Probably. Yeah, probably. You know, I mean, we yes, the more affluent communities tend to push more. They tend to have the resources to be able to do more. Yeah. You know, more coaches, more tutors, more activities, more, you know, ability to get my kids from A to B. Yeah. And then B to C and then C to D and.

00;08;36;11 - 00;08;51;22
Sue Groner
You know I think we sometimes forget how important it is to just take a breath and let our kids, like, have downtime, you know, have time to just do nothing to okay, let them be bored and God's. Yeah.

00;08;51;22 - 00;08;55;25
Paul Sullivan
There were you were a huge proponent for like, I'm bored. I'm like, great. Figure something out, you know?

00;08;55;27 - 00;08;58;15
Sue Groner
Okay, so this I get bored here.

00;08;58;15 - 00;09;00;25
Paul Sullivan
They're Legos here. They're tons of things. Yeah.

00;09;00;27 - 00;09;04;16
Sue Groner
Yeah. It's not our job to entertain them.

00;09;04;18 - 00;09;22;09
Paul Sullivan
Right. When you when you consider, an engagement, a coaching engagement with a client being, a true success, what are the things that you kind of look back and say, boy, that that that worked out really well. I really helped that client and by extension, the whole family.

00;09;22;11 - 00;09;54;27
Sue Groner
Yeah. So my goal always is to help the parent be happier and more relaxed and to reduce those every day. The everyday stress and anxiety that you know inevitably comes from being a parent. Like, I don't care how good your kids are, still going to have that. And so first thing is like at the end of the session or even during the sessions, I see like a visible change in posture and facial expression, and the clients even say, oh my God, like, I feel so much better.

00;09;54;28 - 00;10;15;24
Sue Groner
Like I'm like, you mean like, I don't have to worry about that, really? Like, oh, I never occurred to me that I don't need to make a big deal out of this. So there's that's a little part of it. The next part comes from the understanding of how we start to communicate with our kids differently.

00;10;15;26 - 00;10;17;27
Paul Sullivan
And what do you mean by that.

00;10;18;00 - 00;10;28;03
Sue Groner
So a lot of times we just go to the place of, you know I tell you what to do and you better do it. And that never works.

00;10;28;05 - 00;10;30;11
Paul Sullivan
No no that doesn't really work for adults either.

00;10;30;11 - 00;10;58;27
Sue Groner
Adults also know. No they don't. Funny. Yeah. But you know, with kids where we can be punitive if we choose to. I don't think that ever really works either. I think if you don't do that, somebody's taking away your phone, you know? Where's the inner motivation coming from there? Yeah. What are the kids learning from that? And so, you know, it can be really frustrating for a parent to not get immediate response and immediate change.

00;10;58;27 - 00;11;33;13
Sue Groner
But I try to help them understand that if this takes a long time, it's okay. It's a process to make change. It's a process to teach your kids life skills. It's a process to learn time management, for instance. It's a process to have your child learn how to monitor their own screen time. And so rather than being the warden, a parent, which so many of us tend to be, you know, did you do your homework?

00;11;33;20 - 00;11;52;12
Sue Groner
Did you do this or why aren't you doing that? You need to do your chores. Get off your screen. You have five more minutes. Get ready for this. Pack your stuff up. Don't forget that you know all this warden stuff that sucks as a parent? Sure, no one likes that job. We can teach our kids how to become their own wardens.

00;11;52;14 - 00;12;05;22
Sue Groner
And when we do, all of a sudden all that. And so we have that risk and the responsibility that we feel we should have over them goes away.

00;12;05;24 - 00;12;23;04
Paul Sullivan
It's such a good point. You know, their own wardens or I would think of it as being, you know, you want to create a resilient system that can operate, you know, value because the goal is not in these affluent towns where we live or should not be, to have this, this straight march to the success of getting into your dream college.

00;12;23;06 - 00;12;23;28
Sue Groner
Exactly.

00;12;24;03 - 00;12;44;16
Paul Sullivan
What happens is you probably will get into your dream college. Or if you don't get your dream college, you your plan B is still better than most people's plan day. But if you're not resilient, what are you going to do once you're there? You know, if the Greyhound actually catches the rabbit, it screws up the greyhound. And so how do you, you know, help them, sort of, you know, advocate for themselves.

00;12;44;16 - 00;13;01;12
Paul Sullivan
But also, I mean, one of things my wife and I says, we want to we're parenting you. So you become adults. And there's a school that that to them went to early on. And then headmaster said, you know, our goal here is to create the 30 year olds you're going to want to sit next to on the train.

00;13;01;14 - 00;13;09;20
Paul Sullivan
And that, like, resonated so clearly that because, you know, anybody who could commute to sat next to the person, I don't want to sit next to me. Exactly.

00;13;09;22 - 00;13;38;18
Sue Groner
Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, the. Yeah. That's I mean, taking on the responsibilities and taking the nagging and the important stuff away from the parent is one thing that really helps a parent and also really helps a child. The resilience piece falls on to me under helping our kids to be good problem solvers and helping our kids to develop strong coping mechanisms.

00;13;38;21 - 00;14;05;24
Sue Groner
And how do we do that? We do that by not fixing all our kids problems. Yeah. You know, and not like preventing those problems from happening. I think we, you know, you're not going to go out and make them happen. But when they do, it's a good thing. It really is. And if we can say, okay, this problem, this problem isn't there for me to fix.

00;14;05;29 - 00;14;30;09
Sue Groner
This problem is there for my child to have the opportunity to start to learn some problem solving skills, to learn some coping mechanisms. And so but how do I do that without being totally like, oh my God, my poor kid. We just validate those feelings and they failed. They forgot something important for school. Don't go to the rescue and bring it to them.

00;14;30;11 - 00;14;32;19
Sue Groner
Yeah, but then figure it out. You know, when.

00;14;32;21 - 00;14;33;14
Paul Sullivan
They go to school and it's.

00;14;33;14 - 00;14;43;11
Sue Groner
Like, yeah, they didn't bring their lunch to school, you know, and there are a lot of parents who want to rush that lunch to school. My poor baby is not going to be able to eat. Oh my gosh. You know.

00;14;43;14 - 00;14;47;19
Paul Sullivan
School served lunch, school served like they may not be the lunch they want. The schools feed him. Yeah.

00;14;47;21 - 00;15;06;22
Sue Groner
Schools feed them. And you know, if you think about it, what are the skills that they will learn from not having their lunch that day. They might have to go to the front office. Advocate for themselves and ask for money to borrow money for school lunch that day. Yeah, right. Got to pay for it. Yeah. Number two, maybe they don't.

00;15;06;22 - 00;15;31;21
Sue Groner
And they just mooch off their friends and whatever. They're figuring out what's going to work for them. Number three, they're hungry. And that's also okay. They're not going to die if they're hungry. Like our kids say they're hungry all the time, but they really don't understand what that feels like. So an even missing lunch area a little hungry.

00;15;31;21 - 00;15;51;10
Sue Groner
But we're not, like, real hungry. Yeah. So, like, all those things are okay. And then your kid comes home and said, I dropped my lunch, and you could say, well, I told you 20 times to put it in your backpack and you didn't. Yeah. But instead, because that's not helpful, we say, oh, yeah, I noticed that you left it.

00;15;51;10 - 00;16;10;18
Sue Groner
I stuck it in the fridge. So you'll have it for tomorrow. Tell me what you did. I think when I saw that, I knew you'd be able to figure it out. Would you do? Yeah. How do you do it? And then they tell you they're great. And that's kind of the end of the conversation. And you don't need to say, well, you better remember tomorrow or blah, blah, blah.

00;16;10;19 - 00;16;13;01
Sue Groner
They're smart. These kids.

00;16;13;04 - 00;16;16;07
Paul Sullivan
They're not gonna be hungry. They're hungry two days in a row.

00;16;16;11 - 00;16;43;15
Sue Groner
Yeah. So there you go. So it's little things like that. But once you learn to address your kids feelings instead of your kids issues, it's a lot easier. Because if you're not fixing anything, you're saying, yeah, okay, I understand. Like, if I didn't have my lunch, I probably would have been a little frustrated too. If I don't get invited to a birthday party.

00;16;43;17 - 00;16;50;10
Sue Groner
Yeah, or I'm not invited to a party. I'm disappointed. I don't blame you for being disappointed.

00;16;50;12 - 00;16;51;04
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, and.

00;16;51;04 - 00;17;07;02
Sue Groner
You don't say. But don't worry, honey, we're going to go do something really extra special that day, you know, just like you're ever going to get through it. Yeah. You'll get through it. It'll be a party will come, the party will go, and you will be fine.

00;17;07;05 - 00;17;26;25
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. It's such a good point. You know, friend of mine who I did a is on a early podcast. And Brad Clontz is a financial psychologist and does a lot of work around, sort of the money scripts that guide us in life. But he gives an example similar to yours, in which, you know, a family is on the verge of losing their house.

00;17;26;27 - 00;17;45;25
Paul Sullivan
Okay, that is the fact a child forgot her lunch. A family is on the verge of losing. Is that. And there are sort of three outcomes. One, they lose the house. Two, the grandparents come in and save them and pay off their debts, and they keep the house or three. They find a way to to keep the house themselves.

00;17;45;25 - 00;18;11;09
Paul Sullivan
So the same, you know, precipitating event and all read about it. And then three very different outcomes in his argument, similar to what you've just said here, is that what matters and what resonates with the children is, is how the family, in this case, the parents, you know, worked out that issue similar here, like how the kids, you know, worked at this issue because, I mean, most of the time I can think of one of my daughters who would forget our lunch and she'd be very, you know, resilient around it.

00;18;11;09 - 00;18;24;28
Paul Sullivan
And that's what you want to do. She'd figure it out somehow and, you know, the sound would rise the next day, but it would also be a great indication for that poor kid. If they couldn't figure out what to do, then, you know, okay, let's talk. You know, let's try to figure this out again.

00;18;25;00 - 00;18;43;27
Sue Groner
And, you know, how do you think you might be able to remember your lunch? You want to do you want to talk about some strategies and you can try them out and see which one works best for you. Yeah, right. And you let them come up with ideas too. Like you can't always say, well, you know, why didn't you do this?

00;18;43;27 - 00;19;11;29
Sue Groner
Or maybe you should do that or that or to do that, like our kids hear, that is judgment. We hear that. We say it with love, with loving suggestion. Our kids hear it is judgment. Why didn't you just blah blah blah, honey, you idiot, is what they're hearing, you know? But I didn't do it right. I didn't just do what my mother made sound so easy, or my dad suggested I do as if it was nothing.

00;19;12;02 - 00;19;40;13
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You know, I'm curious. We're talking in 2023. You know, it seems like we've come out of the pandemic. We're in with, you know, some people are calling the next normal. How has your, you know, coaching business, you know, is it different now in 2023 than it was, you know, during the pandemic? Or are parents seeing things in differently, asking, you know, different questions or, you know, have we gone have they gone back to to where they were pre-pandemic.

00;19;40;15 - 00;20;03;12
Sue Groner
Kind of back to where they were pre-pandemic? The only thing that's the one thing that's really changed, though, is that, you know, the work I do with companies has definitely grown that the awareness of the need to support parents has really grown a lot. And I think that's a really good thing.

00;20;03;15 - 00;20;09;13
Paul Sullivan
That's great. Yeah. And then you're going in and helping the companies devise programs for.

00;20;09;14 - 00;20;11;27
Sue Groner
No, I am I get to the programs.

00;20;11;27 - 00;20;12;08
Paul Sullivan
Okay.

00;20;12;10 - 00;20;36;17
Sue Groner
I come in and do the programs. Yeah. So I'm sort of come in as a consultant in a way. Yeah, yeah. We do workshops. I do one on ones, I do office hours, things like that. Sometimes it'll be like a big talk for that client facing. Yeah. You know. So yeah. And that's like a helpful thing. It got a you got to provide something.

00;20;36;19 - 00;20;49;21
Sue Groner
Right now there's you know the whole quiet quitting thing. There's you know it's harder and harder to now attract good talent and retain good talent. Yeah. And little things like this really do make a difference.

00;20;49;23 - 00;21;07;21
Paul Sullivan
That's fantastic to hear. And there's always something you know the company is all behind. I mean we have to acknowledge that the world of work is different in 2023 than it was in 2000, you know, 19, that the pandemic changed things. You know, and parents, you know, men and women want to parent differently. But let me ask this.

00;21;07;22 - 00;21;20;17
Paul Sullivan
When you think of, you know, the clients that you're working with, what percentage of the people either in your private practice or the business work are are men who come to you and they're they're men.

00;21;20;19 - 00;21;39;00
Sue Groner
Oh, wow. If I had to like that, that are the ones who initiate the contact of very, very little, a very small amount. However, when I'm doing workshops with companies, it can be as much as 5050.

00;21;39;02 - 00;22;02;16
Paul Sullivan
Right. So why do you think that is? Do you think it's. I mean, obviously the company of dads is all about changing perceptions. We're trying to normalize the idea that a man can be, a dad, whether he's working full time, part time, or devoting all the time to his family. Yet, the people reaching out to you are still, you know, primarily moms, at least in your private practice.

00;22;02;16 - 00;22;11;00
Paul Sullivan
Is that you? Do you read into that, or is that just kind of the nature of where your practice is set up? What what do you think about that?

00;22;11;03 - 00;22;35;14
Sue Groner
Well, I think for starting out with like a stay at home parent, like a stay at home parent is not working, has a lot of time on their hands to be thinking about their child. Yeah. And so there's more focus on them and there's more. I think there's sometimes more anxiety to the working. For the working parent. There may be more guilt.

00;22;35;14 - 00;22;55;26
Sue Groner
There may be more stress dealing with like the morning stuff because they're they've got to get out to work also and start. And then there's like coming home after a long day and dealing with all the issues that they have to deal with their kids. And so, you know, I mean, on the issues are always the same. Yeah.

00;22;55;28 - 00;23;39;12
Sue Groner
They're just present differently. I think, and I when I work with private clients, I encourage if there's a partner, I encourage both partners to be there and to participate in the session because, you know, kind of want to be on the same page. It's really helpful. Yeah. And usually that happens, you know, like, well, what you and I spoke about before is that, you know, as much as a mom wants a dad to really participate and be hands on and take on responsibility, like a lot of the time they're not doing it.

00;23;39;12 - 00;24;05;08
Sue Groner
The way the firm wants them to. And so, you know, it becomes that battle. You know you're not due, but you're not doing it the right way. And so that can it can be really helpful when we do a session together too, so that there's not one person sort of dictating the way things should be done. And there isn't one proper way, in my opinion.

00;24;05;12 - 00;24;28;03
Sue Groner
You know, I think both both people kind of have to come together and talk about why they feel one way or another. You know, we're all raised in a home and that's what we learned. That's what we know. And, you know, if you're if you're a partner was raised completely differently than you, sure, you know, then that's even more child.

00;24;28;03 - 00;24;46;05
Sue Groner
That's can be really challenging because even if you don't necessarily think it was good, it's still what you knew. And it's sort of where you're you just sort of automatically go to. So it's a learning to have these conversations together and say, well, why do you think this or why do you feel, what do you think? What's good?

00;24;46;05 - 00;24;52;20
Sue Groner
What how do you think we could should do it? And then it's always let's give it a try.

00;24;52;23 - 00;25;26;19
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. With the corporate clients, what have you noticed that that's different because presumably, you know, a company isn't frog marching people into a session with you. Presumably these people know they self-select, they self-select, they want to be there. They want to learn this. And so you said it's roughly a 5050 breakdown. You know, again, I know you said the issues are generally the same, but the question to you is probably different when they come be those men and those women who want your advice is apparently mentor in the corporate setting, you know, how are they engaging with you that, you know, perhaps was surprising to you or is different from, you know, the work you've

00;25;26;19 - 00;25;31;17
Paul Sullivan
been doing? But largely with, with, you know, stay at home moms.

00;25;31;19 - 00;26;00;17
Sue Groner
It is not that surprising to me. I mean, that the issues are all still the same, you know? But and and that they really care. They want to do this, what they consider. Right? Yeah. And I think everyone just wants to enjoy the process more. And which is what I love about what I do is so that, you know, how do you deal with sibling rivalry when your kids are fighting all the time?

00;26;00;17 - 00;26;07;04
Paul Sullivan
So are you. Are you telling me, are you telling me, see that nobody becomes a parent because they want to listen to the kids fight that they want? It's not.

00;26;07;04 - 00;26;08;23
Sue Groner
Shocking.

00;26;08;25 - 00;26;13;17
Paul Sullivan
Crazy. All right. You're the one going to war. And I don't know whatever, but, shocking.

00;26;13;19 - 00;26;20;22
Sue Groner
You know. Oh, my kids are going to just love each other, you know? And that'll never happen.

00;26;20;25 - 00;26;36;01
Paul Sullivan
Now, it's a great point that they want to enjoy the process that's coming from, a really positive place. It became parents out of out of love and joy and they want to, you know, have children. And yeah, you want your kids to be successful. Sure. But you want it to be enjoyable. You want it to be loving.

00;26;36;01 - 00;26;40;15
Paul Sullivan
You want to be, a family. And then I mean, that's presumably what you're doing.

00;26;40;15 - 00;26;49;29
Sue Groner
Yeah. You want to, like, look forward to this snow day instead of dread the snow day? You know what I mean?

00;26;50;01 - 00;26;53;01
Paul Sullivan
I like that we don't get snow anymore, in the northeast. Because know.

00;26;53;01 - 00;26;57;11
Sue Groner
I know, and I know they don't even give snow days anymore to go online and.

00;26;57;16 - 00;27;16;15
Paul Sullivan
It. But it's a great analogy. No, it's. Yeah. You want it like, okay. My you know, we had this this this past weekend. We didn't have, I better exams. Right. We went away for a week at Christmas and it was just the five of us. And we had a great time. And if you look at what we did, nothing is going to really stand out.

00;27;16;15 - 00;27;32;24
Paul Sullivan
You know, with the beach plate, you know, walked around the bikes, you know. But the great part of it was we were all together, you know, we played some board games and, you know, was it, you know, the Hollywood version of a family? No. There there were times when kids were fighting. Kids were tired, people were hungry.

00;27;33;00 - 00;27;40;19
Paul Sullivan
But, you know, all in all, it was great. And that to me is, you know, that's the win. That's the ultimate goal.

00;27;40;21 - 00;28;05;15
Sue Groner
Right? I think so too. And it's not going to be all the time. But you know, when you get it some of the time. That's great. You know every you can you got five people, five individuals, all different human beings who think differently and act differently. And you gotta figure out a way for everyone to get along.

00;28;05;17 - 00;28;17;08
Paul Sullivan
You're right. And it's not going to be great all the time, but it's going to be better if people look up Sue Groner, the parenting mentor. It's a sue. Thank you so much for being my guest today and the company does podcast. I enjoy the.

00;28;17;08 - 00;28;19;09
Sue Groner
Chat. Yes. Me too. Thanks so much.