EP68: How Dads Get Support for Parental Burnout

Interview with Kelly McGinnis / President of the Working Parent Institute

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Parental burnout is only recently a topic that is getting talked about openly. All parents can struggle with it but Lead Dads and Working Moms are juggling working, parenting, living, being a spouse and a friend every day. Kelly McGinnis is leading a reevaluation as the president of Incredible Family, which supports working parents and aims to prevent parental burnout, and the Working Parent Institute, which is a resource for companies looking to do better. Learn some actionable actionable tips to reduce burnout and get aligned as working parents.

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Transcript

00;00;05;06 - 00;00;25;28
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, silly, strange, and sublime aspects of being a lead dad. In a world where men or the go to parent aren't always accepted at work, among their friends, or in the community for what they're doing. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Our podcast is just one of the many things we produced each week at the Company of Dads.

00;00;25;29 - 00;00;50;12
Paul Sullivan
We have various features, including our popular Lead Dad of the week. We have our community both online and in person. The one stop shop for all of this is our newsletter. The dad. So sign up today at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad that's the company dads.com backslash the dad. Today my guest is Kelly McGinnis, president of Incredible Family.

00;00;50;14 - 00;01;24;18
Paul Sullivan
His mission is to support working parents and prevent parental burnout. She's also the president of the Working Parent Institute, which provides resources for companies and a mother of three daughters. Incredible family is providing parents with the tools they need to focus on their families as both workers and parents. She has a team of coaches who work directly with moms and dads, and in her words, she's working to transform culture and help leaders support parents and caregivers by reducing burnout and discovering strengths.

00;01;24;19 - 00;01;45;09
Paul Sullivan
Now, we did a little test of what the work of what incredible family does for a parent, and I was blown away by how accurate it was, even though, to be quite honest, I didn't always like all of the assessments of my dad personality. But, Kelly, welcome to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;45;11 - 00;01;53;21
Kelly McGinnis 
Thank you so much, Paul. It was fun to walk you through your strengths and see some of those areas of your personality shine through.

00;01;53;24 - 00;02;03;03
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, fun for you. But you were on the other end. You were on the expert and you weren't on the receiving end. Well, Paul, you know, it's interesting, but maybe you could try this a little bit better. Like. Why? Why?

00;02;03;09 - 00;02;06;24
Kelly McGinnis 
Right now I get, I get that all the time.

00;02;06;27 - 00;02;21;04
Paul Sullivan
Not about me and about, our company of dad. What are some of the common struggles when you look at the sort of, you know, what are some of the common struggles that working parents face?

00;02;21;06 - 00;02;51;28
Kelly McGinnis 
Gosh, that's a really big question, because working parents are struggling with a lot these days. But what we get to do is kind of focus in on what their unique personality is and how you might be able to make some adjustments or changes to really enjoy or re-energize what it's like to be a parent. So one of the thing biggest obstacles I find parents are facing these days is they're really focused on what's going wrong.

00;02;52;01 - 00;03;11;08
Kelly McGinnis 
They're focused on the negative. What's not good enough. You were saying that you took the parent assessment. Nine times out of ten, when a parent takes the assessment, they look at the very bottom of their assessment scores and wonder, why is this so low on my test? Did you ever experience the same thing?

00;03;11;10 - 00;03;35;07
Paul Sullivan
No. What are you talking about, Kelly? That's right. I don't know what you're saying. I would never do that. I always think at the positive that's natural, that that's, you know, in behavioral finance, you know, there are these studies on on loss aversion, how somebody feels a lot worse if they lose $5, and if they make $5 on an investment, they don't feel as good making that $5 as they feel bad losing their $5.

00;03;35;07 - 00;03;55;01
Paul Sullivan
But if that's, you know, going into this, you know, you have a whole team of coaches, that incredible family, the people are going to look for those negatives. You just said that, you know, one of the things globally as working parents we struggle with is the negativity. How do you begin to sort of, chip away at that negativity?

00;03;55;01 - 00;04;04;01
Paul Sullivan
Or maybe it's something different. Maybe it's like finding the different, you know, strengths that people have that allow them to get out of that, that negativity trap.

00;04;04;03 - 00;04;34;18
Kelly McGinnis 
Yeah, I think it's twofold. So the first thing is really raising their awareness. A lot of people don't know that. That's how our brain is wired. We are wired to focus on the negative because it's like our natural security system. The other thing that's so interesting about our brain is that it can be retrained. So if we choose to focus on the positive, if we help folks create habits of positive parenting, it starts to become more natural that they're able to focus on the positive.

00;04;34;18 - 00;04;59;10
Kelly McGinnis 
They're able to look at their strengths, they're able to change what their brain focuses on. That's the beauty of what we do, is helping folks see that there is positive that they have what it takes, and then just strengthening some of those strategies and natural talents that you were talking about so that it becomes easy for them.

00;04;59;10 - 00;05;14;28
Kelly McGinnis 
It becomes just really natural for them to to show up as a positive parent. And the next step of that is when they are positive parent at home. It helps them show up engaged and productive in the workplace.

00;05;15;00 - 00;05;36;04
Paul Sullivan
One of the things you do when I take this test is you showed, you know, as you said, you know, certain strengths, but the strengths are from, a sort of, you know, basket of, you know, various strengths that people have. We don't all have the same strengths. Walk us through, some of the the strengths that you generally attribute to parents to help them work out of this, this negative loop.

00;05;36;06 - 00;05;42;03
Paul Sullivan
Give you some examples of those. The strengths that you know, you recognize that the parents can get better.

00;05;42;06 - 00;06;03;29
Kelly McGinnis 
Well, so with all of our strengths, we either use our strengths in an area of positive impact or we can struggle in our strengths. So I think, Paul, you and I talked about how some of your strengths can show up in more of a negative space. And so helping parents go through their assessment, look at the top strengths.

00;06;03;29 - 00;06;09;21
Kelly McGinnis 
We call those their super strengths. So instead of looking at the bottom we're going to look at what you're naturally strong.

00;06;09;21 - 00;06;12;08
Paul Sullivan
And but you had about what about 15 of these.

00;06;12;10 - 00;06;15;13
Kelly McGinnis 
Have 1010. I'm sorry 12.

00;06;15;15 - 00;06;20;02
Paul Sullivan
What are the 12. Run through the 12 different strengths okay.

00;06;20;04 - 00;06;24;24
Kelly McGinnis 
I'm going to have to get my cheat sheet because I will.

00;06;24;26 - 00;06;27;21
Paul Sullivan
What are your strengths then? You should certainly know yours, right?

00;06;27;23 - 00;06;49;17
Kelly McGinnis 
Oh yeah. So here are 12 strengths. We have an advisor defender, fortitude. Gracious inspiration. Objectivity. Organizer. Sensitivity. Stability. Tenderness. Trainer. And zest.

00;06;49;20 - 00;06;57;24
Paul Sullivan
So who doesn't want to? I don't know, zest. Me. I think I'm like a lemon and I'm scraping it in my kitchen. What does that mean? I want to be zest. I want to be zestful.

00;06;57;27 - 00;07;21;15
Kelly McGinnis 
So I'm a zest parent. That's my third strength. And, zest is really. You are excited. Like, when your feet hit the floor, you are ready to parent. You enjoy being a parent, you enjoy adventure, you enjoy change. You enjoy excitement. One of the best videos I came across of a zest parent on YouTube was this dad.

00;07;21;17 - 00;07;37;23
Kelly McGinnis 
And he was in the stands watching his daughter cheerlead and he was doing the routine with his daughter in the stands, full on like super excited. The whole moves and everything. That's a perfect example of what it means to be a zest parent.

00;07;37;26 - 00;07;44;20
Paul Sullivan
Which would work wonderful when you have like a 6 or 7 year old, but be horribly embarrassed when that 6 or 7 year old is 16 or 17 that.

00;07;44;20 - 00;07;51;11
Kelly McGinnis 
She was 16. It was a high school football game, and this dad we had just was all excited about being a dad.

00;07;51;12 - 00;08;31;29
Paul Sullivan
Which is a great example of how that you know, that zest can be super positive, but oh my goodness, was that ever embarrassing for that? Exactly, exactly. Rein that zest in. These 12 characteristics there, like you said, you know, they're fairly new to you, like, okay, sensitivity, all that. You kind of, you know, you think it through, but talk about how, you get you're promoting positivity or you're only looking at whatever you said this top five traits and and working through so you can talk to people about, you know, how they're going to help them being parent, but talk about how those same five traits can be a hindrance and or at least

00;08;31;29 - 00;08;36;26
Paul Sullivan
how is something that they need to sort of be aware of. How could possibly be a hindrance?

00;08;36;29 - 00;09;04;05
Kelly McGinnis 
Yeah. So the unique thing about our parenting strengths is that they're divided into two different, like domains. If you will. Paul, you and I talked about your parenting style, natural parenting style. This is research that came out of 1960s and it measured two different things. It measured. People wanted to know what makes a successful parent, what what do I need to have to raise successful children?

00;09;04;07 - 00;09;39;24
Kelly McGinnis 
And so the researchers set out to answer this question. And they looked at two things. They looked at the amount of rules and expectations that parents laid out in their parenting journey. And then they looked at the connection with kids, the warmth and the love that happens in the parenting and what they found through decades of research is that it really, truly does take a balance of the rules and expectations and the love and the warmth in order to raise successful kids.

00;09;39;26 - 00;10;10;23
Kelly McGinnis 
And so when we're looking at our parenting, the 12 parenting strengths, there are six strengths that lend themselves to rules and expectations. And there are six strengths that kind of lend towards that warmth and love and connection. Peace. And so oftentimes in initial coaching session, we'll look at your top strengths. And it could possibly be for your example, Paul was a little heavy in the rules and expectations that happens often.

00;10;10;23 - 00;10;14;15
Paul Sullivan
I'm not zestful enough is what you're saying. Yes.

00;10;14;17 - 00;10;16;09
Kelly McGinnis 
But it's okay because we're not.

00;10;16;11 - 00;10;17;25
Paul Sullivan
I'm doing my cheerleading routine right?

00;10;17;25 - 00;10;26;22
Kelly McGinnis 
Yes, I like it. I like it. That's okay though, because that's what we want parents to learn. We want them to know naturally, this is how you're going to show up.

00;10;26;22 - 00;10;32;21
Paul Sullivan
Once you know who you are, you can then come more fully prepared. Is that is that a fair summary?

00;10;32;23 - 00;10;59;03
Kelly McGinnis 
Exactly, exactly. And so then you work through okay. Well these are my strengths. This is how I'm using it. I need to be more aware of it. My overuse is in these strengths. Am I misusing them? I know now that I have a lot of strengths in the rules and expectations realm, and I'm going to need to be intentional around investing and developing some warmth and love strengths so that I have the best outcome with my kids.

00;10;59;05 - 00;11;23;18
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You know, often I don't think, you know, there's anything terribly unique about my relationship with my wife. I think she has. I hear that she's more on the, the the warmth side, the softer, warm side. I don't think this is, you know, uncommon for parents to have different styles, but when they do, how do you make that work?

00;11;23;18 - 00;11;53;00
Paul Sullivan
Because if one parent gets associated as the rules and expectations parent and the other parent is is a warm, fun parent, kids are smart. They quickly play you off, against each other. And I guess if you're not you, when you have sort of different styles, you're going to come to different conclusions. How do you help, parents work together again for the best outcome for their family, for their kids, but also to not have them arguing like, hey, I did this and you did that.

00;11;53;02 - 00;11;54;24
Paul Sullivan
That's an hours for us to do it.

00;11;54;26 - 00;12;07;11
Kelly McGinnis 
Absolutely. One of the another one of the struggles is that parents come to the table thinking that there's a right way to parent. And that's really interesting.

00;12;07;14 - 00;12;16;11
Paul Sullivan
Rules and expectations. I know this a right way. Okay. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I don't actually know what I'm doing. I've been at this for 14 years, almost. I really don't know what I'm doing.

00;12;16;14 - 00;12;28;23
Kelly McGinnis 
But the funny thing is, there is not a right way. There is not a book out there that exists that is like, this is the way to parent. And if you do X, Y, and Z, it's going to come out as the best outcome possible.

00;12;28;23 - 00;12;43;00
Paul Sullivan
And at least as a dad, I think that's the tough because if you say, okay, I just bought my child, a bookcase, online and it comes with a manual and I'm going to put it together and there we go. And it more or less will look like the bookcase on the package at the end. But of course there isn't.

00;12;43;00 - 00;13;00;20
Paul Sullivan
I remember Mitt Romney when he was running for president. You know, people, I think it's five boys on my dad. And they said, you know, asked him for his his parenting, you know, style of parenting tips. And he said, you know what I did? I did the best I possibly could. I tried to be fully engaged. And then I waited 20 years to see if it would work.

00;13;00;20 - 00;13;27;02
Paul Sullivan
And I thought it was like such an honest appraisal of how to approach the parenting. Like, you know, you win in it, you brought your full self. But, you know, do you think post Covid or just, you know, our generation, that we have more anxiety around parenting or more of a desire to get it right? And I'd say that in air quotes, even though you just said there is obviously no right way to parent.

00;13;27;05 - 00;13;49;00
Kelly McGinnis 
I think when we're bombarded with content. So we are a generation of parents right now are being overwhelmed with different messaging. Do it this way. Here's the right way. Look at social media and you see all these false images of like, hey, this is how you should do it. This is how you should do it. Read this blog.

00;13;49;02 - 00;14;05;24
Kelly McGinnis 
We're inundated with information, and what is so unique is that you cannot copy someone else's way. You need to understand how your hard wired and designed so that you can show up as your best self. And that's what strength does for parents.

00;14;06;01 - 00;14;16;24
Paul Sullivan
So in that I was I asked you a question before the night they cut you off of the story. But when you talk about parents who have very different styles, how do you get them to, to to work together?

00;14;16;27 - 00;14;51;16
Kelly McGinnis 
Absolutely. So it is no, this the statement opposites attract is true, opposites attract, and it's for a reason. And so when we come into the parenting world, it's actually very discouraging to see the statistics around happiness, marital satisfaction, relationship longevity when you become a parent, that drops significantly and a lot of it is because you're opposites attract. Paul, you are unique and you have strengths and you have ways of showing up.

00;14;51;16 - 00;15;22;08
Kelly McGinnis 
You have experiences. You saw parenting one way and your wife, she equally has strengths. Saw parenting a different way. And so you come to the table with these two very different views. And nine times out of ten, parents argue over which way is the right way. And so what we love to do is show parents that here's the end destination, and there can be a multitude of different ways to get to that end destination.

00;15;22;10 - 00;15;44;29
Kelly McGinnis 
You just want to use the strengths that are unique to you. And when both of you are aware Paul's really good and fortitude, your wife's has sensitivity high, then you're able to partner in the parenting realm because you know what you're good at, Paul and your wife knows where she's strong and you can balance one another out.

00;15;45;01 - 00;15;55;17
Paul Sullivan
So in most cases with incredible family, do you, ask or prefer if both parents go through this together so you don't just have one doing it?

00;15;55;20 - 00;16;19;08
Kelly McGinnis 
Yeah, that is our preference. And even when we work with companies, the employee themselves that are in the company, we offer a code to take the assessment for their partner because there's so much benefit to understanding how each person is approaching the parenting journey that awareness piece is half the battle.

00;16;19;11 - 00;16;35;28
Paul Sullivan
You know, this is, again, being the where the rules guy is the dad. And how long does this typically take? You know, and, you know, I guess the first year, how long does it take? But also like what's often trigger for somebody to come to you. And once you've been triggered, okay, I need to go to incredible family.

00;16;35;28 - 00;16;46;25
Paul Sullivan
I need help, with my parenting style. And then how long does it typically take for somebody to implement the change to have a more desired, outcome?

00;16;46;27 - 00;17;01;16
Kelly McGinnis 
So the trigger is there are a lot of different things. Relationship issues is a huge trigger for folks to come to us. Misbehavior with kids, disconnection in the family.

00;17;01;19 - 00;17;01;23
Paul Sullivan


00;17;02;00 - 00;17;29;13
Kelly McGinnis 
Unproductive, disengaged at work. A lot of those will trigger them to do some self-reflection and and want to work on their parenting. A lot of marriages come broken and hurting and and need help, need support. And what this does is gives them a language that they can start to communicate some of the problems and, and create some results.

00;17;29;16 - 00;17;59;16
Kelly McGinnis 
Oftentimes, we recommend like a six week is what it would take once people take the assessment, get their results and start to do some of the exercises and progress through six weeks, they'll start to see some results. But we use the same small things often, so we're not looking for huge change right out the gates. We're looking for some really small instrumental steps so that parents have a solid foundation to stand on.

00;17;59;18 - 00;18;13;12
Kelly McGinnis 
We live in a really chaotic world that's constantly changing and things are changing. We want parents to stand on a solid foundation that they can believe in themselves, they believe in their family, and they believe they have what it takes to be successful.

00;18;13;14 - 00;18;38;04
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, when you're on a platform for a company that's one. I think that's amazing that companies are providing this as a benefit. You know, the company does very much, you know, working with the workplace as well. So I think it's fantastic. But when they agreed to sort of have the incredible family offering on their platform, what are the reasons that they tell you when when you make that sale, when you get across the line, they say, you know what, Kelly?

00;18;38;11 - 00;18;45;05
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, we really want this because of X, Y, and Z reason for our employees.

00;18;45;07 - 00;19;14;03
Kelly McGinnis 
The main reason is burnout. They're losing. So many employees. Moms aren't returning back. They try, but they can't because of childcare or this or that. They're burned out. And really, the bottom line of strengths is when you're working from a place of strength, you actually get energy. You are filled up, you are more motivated when you're working from a place of strength than when you're focusing on weakness.

00;19;14;03 - 00;19;40;09
Kelly McGinnis 
And there's a lot of research behind that. And so it changes the game. When parents that are burnt out at home doing their, you know, second duty or whatever you want to call it, second shift, when they are more energized in that space, they're able to show up better in the workplace. And so that's the number one, reason companies bring us on is to help retain their really valuable employees.

00;19;40;12 - 00;19;45;08
Kelly McGinnis 
They don't want to keep losing these great moms and dads in their organization.

00;19;45;11 - 00;20;07;07
Paul Sullivan
That's fantastic. And you know, when you're getting people to identify their strengths and define, you know, what their parenting style is, I mean, how difficult is that for somebody to do? How difficult is it you talking about the six weeks period? But how how difficult? I mean, is it probably the self-selecting group that even comes to you?

00;20;07;07 - 00;20;22;01
Paul Sullivan
But you know how difficult is it for them to, you know, realize a change? Because, look, if you tell me a whole bunch of good things, I feel great. But if you tell me. Hey, Paul, you know, here are your three weaknesses. I was like, great. I had a bad day at work. I got this going on here, and now I'm a bad dad.

00;20;22;02 - 00;20;36;20
Paul Sullivan
Which is, of course, what you're not saying. But that's how it comes across. So. So how do that how do you get them to sort of, you know, not just read what you sent them, not just go through the course, but really, you know, implement this.

00;20;36;23 - 00;21;08;11
Kelly McGinnis 
We ask some really good questions. So a lot of the journey is self-reflection. And when parents see their assessment scores and we ask some guiding questions, they do some practice at home and they actually start to hear themselves use their strengths. They start to actually notice, oh my gosh, there was my fortitude. And it caused a conflict with my wife, or got into an argument with my two year old because I wasn't willing to back down on this.

00;21;08;11 - 00;21;09;17
Paul Sullivan
Argue with a two year old.

00;21;09;24 - 00;21;33;28
Kelly McGinnis 
I'm telling you. Yep. But that helps. Once they start to see these come to life in their in their world and their unique situation, all of a sudden it gives them more motivation like, oh my gosh, this is accurate and I need to learn more. And so that they take that step to make some changes in their own parenting journey.

00;21;34;00 - 00;21;58;19
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. One of the things you talked about is when so this this characteristics are different between, you know, a child and a parent when, you know, the child's personality clashes with, you know, the parent strength, you have the real warm and empathetic parent. And then you have the, you know, the rule follower or vice versa. How do you help?

00;21;58;19 - 00;22;14;06
Paul Sullivan
So so now, you know, Mom and dad have work this out, between each other. But now they have to take it to their kids where they may have different, you know, personality styles or how do you help parents work this out with their, their children.

00;22;14;09 - 00;22;46;09
Kelly McGinnis 
So we equally have an incredible kid assessment that we have parents take for their kids. There are 12 kids strengths. It is aligned exactly the same, and we help parents see the strength in their kids instead of focusing on the weakness. And we help them understand that some of the misbehavior. So they see some of the most frustrating behaviors that they're noticing in their kids is actually a strength, but it's just an immature stage.

00;22;46;12 - 00;22;56;02
Paul Sullivan
So explain to me how Olympic level staller is a strength or since patience of a hungry gnat. And I want to get spin this in the positive for me.

00;22;56;05 - 00;23;21;11
Kelly McGinnis 
Oh holy smokes, I don't know if I can. That's a tough one. But. So an example I have in my out of my three girls, one of my daughters is a persuader. That's one of her top strengths. And she will talk until she's blue in the face to make sure that she understands, or that everybody in the family understands that she is right.

00;23;21;13 - 00;23;30;09
Kelly McGinnis 
Like her perspective is the way that the world should work. And that can be really frustrating as a parent because you have a lot more information.

00;23;30;11 - 00;23;34;12
Paul Sullivan
As a human being to though that's super persuasive. Okay. Don't sell after the sale.

00;23;34;12 - 00;23;59;18
Kelly McGinnis 
All right. Yeah. It's it's crazy. And so helping her harness that strength is a really important piece. And so I look at my strengths, my parenting strengths, and I kind of go through my top ones to find which one can I leverage to help her learn some of the skills and strategies to hone her persuader strengths?

00;23;59;20 - 00;24;27;05
Kelly McGinnis 
Equally, my husband has strengths. And so we've had conversations where her persuader is a misbehavior. She's either being disrespectful or, you know, she doesn't know when to stop pushing. Yeah. And so we help her give her strategies, ask her questions, guide her along. But we don't diminish her strength. We don't tell her you can't do that.

00;24;27;05 - 00;24;36;06
Kelly McGinnis 
Don't stop talking. We just harness it in an area that's positive impact instead of in areas that's not beneficial.

00;24;36;09 - 00;24;53;15
Paul Sullivan
Are you doing that in in the moment of her, you know, persuading you of something in your now on like minute 17 and she's still going or are you doing it in a, you know, having more like a family conversation with all of your kids to say, okay, here, your strengths, here your weaknesses. Let's, let's, you know, work on them.

00;24;53;17 - 00;25;17;21
Kelly McGinnis 
Sometimes it's in the moment. Often times it's the latter. We we do a lot of family conversations and check ins as a family. And so a lot of the teaching happens then, something that's really important to be aware of our kids and ourselves is emotional regulation and understanding. When is the time to have the conversation so that our kids can hear us?

00;25;17;24 - 00;25;27;18
Kelly McGinnis 
And when is the time to give them that 20 minute cooldown? Let them reset. Let let their brain reengage so that they can hear us.

00;25;27;20 - 00;25;44;23
Paul Sullivan
Right? And you know, I think a lot of parents are listening to the saying that makes total sense. If I had only, one child. But I have, you know, multiple children, and if you give that one kid the 20 minutes to do whatever she needs to do shows how one of her sisters is going to say, wait a second, that's not fair.

00;25;44;29 - 00;26;02;01
Paul Sullivan
Why does she get to do this? So so now you're, you know, you're trying to, you know, help one child and now you've, you know, put out that fire and another fire sprung up over here. You know, again that that holistic approach. How do you then do this. I mean, where what is the key to being able to manage all this.

00;26;02;01 - 00;26;16;17
Paul Sullivan
Is it the alignment between the parent? Is it extreme patience and your approach? What are some of the strengths that you find that allow the parents to manage all that without saying, I'm dealing with your sister now please. We go, well, that's not fair. You like her better than me. And like I got well.

00;26;16;20 - 00;26;40;28
Kelly McGinnis 
This is that this could be its own podcast itself. Because this comes down to making sure that you have very clear expectations in your family and that you've laid out like, this is our purpose as a family. These are our values. This is what's important to us. And so we are going to give this child their time and space to cool down, just like we would give you your time and space to cool down when you need it.

00;26;41;01 - 00;26;57;05
Kelly McGinnis 
But establishing kind of those boundaries or those values as a family is really important because one of the biggest problems that happens in parenting and in life in general is that when your goals are blocked, when you're feeling.

00;26;57;08 - 00;26;58;17
Paul Sullivan
That.

00;26;58;19 - 00;27;26;08
Kelly McGinnis 
Goal blockage, it leads to frustration. And so in that moment when you have a sibling saying, that's not fair, it's because they want something that they're not getting and this is getting in the way of that. So having a really good understanding of that very clear expectations missions and value statements helps align all of the members of your family towards working towards a common goal.

00;27;26;10 - 00;27;45;12
Kelly McGinnis 
Instead of five individual goals that you're pulling and pushing against each other all the time, you have a way to pull everybody together and say, in this moment, we're experiencing chaos. We're all working towards this common goal as a family. And so that gives us the strength to move forward.

00;27;45;15 - 00;28;01;09
Paul Sullivan
That's fascinating. That's really fascinating. And I appreciate you being my guest today on the Company Dads podcast. What else? What did I ask you that you want to tell? Our listeners about the program you created and how it can help individuals, but also help the whole family?

00;28;01;12 - 00;28;17;14
Kelly McGinnis 
Absolutely. So I wanted to offer your listeners an opportunity to find their parent assessment or their strengths, if they're open and interested. I'd love for them to email me. Kelly at incredible family.com.

00;28;17;22 - 00;28;18;05
Paul Sullivan


00;28;18;07 - 00;28;32;23
Kelly McGinnis 
And I will give them a coupon free coupon to take a parent assessment. I would just love all of the people out there to step into their strengths, to learn and discover what their strengths are, and begin this journey of awareness.

00;28;32;26 - 00;28;39;24
Paul Sullivan
Perfect. Kelly, I could talk to you forever, but, this has been a great chat. So thank you again for being my guest on the Company Dads podcast.

00;28;39;26 - 00;28;42;06
Kelly McGinnis 
Thanks, Paul.

00;28;42;09 - 00;29;07;20
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to the company of that podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do at the Company of Dads possible. Helder Moura, who is our audio producer Lindsay Decker, handles all of our social media. Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition, Emily Servin, who is our web maestro, and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me.

00;29;07;20 - 00;29;17;18
Paul Sullivan
And many of the things that we do here at the Company of Dads. It's a great team. And we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop.

00;29;17;18 - 00;29;24;02

For everything is our newsletter, the dad. Sign up at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad.

00;29;24;10 - 00;29;25;07
Paul Sullivan
Thank you again for listening.