EP90: A Navy Seal's Way To Reclaim His Role As Dad

Interview with Jimmy May / Navy Seal, Father of Three

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Jimmy May is highly regarded in the world of Navy Seals, one of the most elite fighting groups in the world. For 22 years, he was often deployed 300 days a year. But in a job with no work-life balance, he rarely saw his children and got divorced twice. Since retiring he's making up for lost time, with an intensity that only an elite Seal could have. Listen to how he is becoming the father his kids need now - and what he is doing to help other Seals.

---

Get our free newsletter covering all things fatherhood delivered straight to your inbox: https://thecompanyofdads.com/thedad/

Transcript

00;00;05;14 - 00;00;24;10
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, silly, strange and sublime aspects of being a dad in a world where men with a go to parent aren't always accepted at work, among their friends and the community for what they're doing. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Our podcast is just one of the many things we produce each week at the Company of Dads.

00;00;24;12 - 00;00;48;11
Paul Sullivan
We have various features, including the lead date of the week. We have our community both online and some in-person events. We have a new resource library for all. Father. The one stop shop for all of this is our newsletter. The dad to sign up today at the Company of dads.com backslash the dad. Today my guest is Jimmy May, who is a Navy Seal for 22 years until he retired earlier this year.

00;00;48;13 - 00;01;12;00
Paul Sullivan
A fluent Arabic speaker, he deployed seven times to the Middle East and earned three Bronze Stars, which are awarded for heroic achievement in combat and also a Purple Heart. Today, Jimmy is the CEO of Sushi Assassin, an in-home sushi catering business for private events. And he recently started May Day Executive Services to help companies develop camaraderie through intense experiences.

00;01;12;02 - 00;01;32;24
Paul Sullivan
He serves as CEO and a board member of Beyond the Brotherhood, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping Navy Seals of character transition from the teams to the civilian sector. Jimmy also has three children, a daughter and a son from his first marriage, aged 24 and 18, and a nine year old son from a second marriage. Welcome Jimmy to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;32;26 - 00;01;37;26
Jimmy May
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Good job nailing the sushi assassin name. That's kind of hard to say on it.

00;01;37;28 - 00;01;40;09
Paul Sullivan
It's a bit of a tongue twister, isn't it?

00;01;40;12 - 00;01;41;19
Jimmy May
What? We did it.

00;01;41;21 - 00;02;03;03
Paul Sullivan
We always start off with a little light question. So, you know, I've been telling this story for for years. We met through, a friend of yours who was on the Seals, and I remember meeting him years and years ago, after my first child was born. And after that, I said, you know, I remember when my wife was pregnant, with our first kid, we went to this prenatal course in the hospital.

00;02;03;03 - 00;02;26;09
Paul Sullivan
And after work, it was in a nice environment. We had coffee and there was a baby doll put the diaper on. And and when we actually had that child when she was actually born, it, I realized that that class was was useless. It was completely useless. And and I always joke that the class should have been taught by a Navy Seal at three in the morning, after you've had too much to drink, to create the urgency of early parenting.

00;02;26;09 - 00;02;40;01
Paul Sullivan
So given you know your experience in the seals was long, does anything faze you as a father? Does any anything your kid do? Does it ever faze you, or are you just, you know, completely stoic and locked in?

00;02;40;04 - 00;02;58;10
Jimmy May
No, I think that that's an interesting question. Yeah. Sometimes they do some things that faze me, especially as they get older. You know, my, my 24 year old daughter is an in a medical school. Super proud of her. But just I don't know, she's pretty smart. And she says some things that really make me think.

00;02;58;10 - 00;03;16;10
Jimmy May
Sometimes I think when you say faze me, she'll say things that will change my perspective about very controversial issues sometimes. You know, she's out there in the real world, learning her own way, as it should be. And, it's not always the way that her dad taught her. And so that's probably the things that really hit me the hardest.

00;03;16;12 - 00;03;25;04
Paul Sullivan
Is it fair to say that your daughter always had the nicest, most respectful boyfriends when she's growing up because their dad was a her dad was a Navy Seal.

00;03;25;06 - 00;03;44;22
Jimmy May
So her she so I wasn't around that much for my first two kids, which is actually I think that, if you told me 20 years ago I'd be on the just podcast, I wouldn't believe you. So I was gone about 300 days a year for the first 14 years of their lives, and then they ended up going to Texas, and I didn't have much of a relationship with them.

00;03;44;22 - 00;04;01;02
Jimmy May
I saw them probably quarterly. As far as her boyfriends go, you know, she did come out here to go to college to be near me, which I was really grateful for. And, she didn't like to introduce me to any of her boyfriends. And she was super, rebellious in every way. I don't know where she got that from.

00;04;01;02 - 00;04;15;28
Jimmy May
Probably her mother. And, she I would tell her not to do something. And one of the. And she would just do it. And one of the times I told her, don't date a teen guy. Just don't do that. I know you're out here. Just don't do that. A team guy is what we call Navy Seals. It's the Islam.

00;04;16;00 - 00;04;33;13
Jimmy May
And sure enough, you know, she started dating this guy, and she was telling me about him, and I'm starting my mind turning, and I'm like, hey, I was like, what is this guy, team guy? And she goes, dad. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm asking you this question is this guy. And she's like, dad, I've already said too much.

00;04;33;13 - 00;04;49;22
Jimmy May
I'm like, all right, got it. So I had to drop it off at the airport. So along for the weekend with their mom. By the time she came back, I had figured out how to narrow down to two guys. Austin or Wyatt. Yeah, she was flying back in from Austin, so when she landed, I was like, hey, how's Austin?

00;04;49;26 - 00;05;13;24
Jimmy May
And she's like, dad. I'm like, I'm talking about the city. What are you talking about? And you gonna open that whole door anyway? They do turn out to be a great dude. She broke his heart on. Right. But when he finished, seal qualification training, and I was actually speaking it there. At there, I saw qualification training, knife ceremony, and, anyway, he walked up to me and I was like, you know, it's all right.

00;05;13;25 - 00;05;19;13
Jimmy May
You know, you were a good man there. That's all I can ask. And, Yeah, yeah, she learned her,

00;05;19;15 - 00;05;39;27
Paul Sullivan
That's a great story. You know, I yeah, I've been fortunate to be at the Seal team base in Coronado. And, you know, what struck me was how Spartan it was, at least at least back then. But but that was one thing. But but really, you know, saga was how the Seals, you know, stick together. And, you know, obviously that camaraderie is is key when you guys deploy.

00;05;39;29 - 00;06;07;02
Paul Sullivan
But, you know, we live in a time when men and, you know, fathers struggle to make friends. You know, is it the intensity of being a seal that that bonds you or, you know, does the, the, the Navy or the Seals specifically, you know, work to really help you guys, you know, come together and really be, you know, interdependent when when you're, you go off.

00;06;07;05 - 00;06;24;23
Jimmy May
Well, when you're gone 300 days a year, you have to be independent. And during. So I was in buds during 911. And so the world changed at that time. And I ended up being gone so much that, you know, they don't really know where I'm going. You don't. And now I think it's better, but they don't know why I'm coming back.

00;06;24;23 - 00;06;42;29
Jimmy May
I always left early. I always came home late. There was always some kind of reason. One time I deployed for four months with one day of notice. So they become really independent. And then you come home and want to be king, your castle. And guess what? Lady's been running the show for the last nine months. You can't walk in there and think you own everything, you know?

00;06;43;02 - 00;07;02;01
Jimmy May
And, you know, your kids are a little nervous around you because they haven't seen you very much. And it's really, It's a hard life, I think during during the wars, we had, I think at one point we had over 100% divorce rate. It was just really bad. And now I think that the teams are working to try and fix that.

00;07;02;01 - 00;07;18;03
Jimmy May
One of the things they do is they have operational tempo, like we call it, heads on beds. So you're not allowed to be gone more than I don't know the numbers, but it's something like 400 days out of 720 or something like that. But we were just gone nonstop. And, it really did take a toll on our families.

00;07;18;06 - 00;07;36;15
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You know, as you well know, you know, companies and workers are trying to figure out, you know, work life balance right now. And you and I have talked in the past and you know, that that doesn't exist when you're deployed, as you said, you were gone, you know, 300 days a year. And it wasn't like you could, you know, phone, phone home from wherever you were.

00;07;36;18 - 00;08;01;18
Paul Sullivan
You know, it has its, its consequences. But, you know, as someone whose job required, you know, total commitment, you know, when you're doing it, how has your, you know, mindset around the work you do, but also, you know, your role as a father? How has that, you know, changed? You know, in the past few years and particularly since you've been, you know, retired?

00;08;01;21 - 00;08;21;07
Jimmy May
Well, it started to change after I got injured pretty bad. I got blown up. I've got fake hips now, and I've got a torn labrum in my shoulder and started to get too broken to do the job, to be honest. And my last two years was certain surgeries, but it gave me a lot of time to reflect because I've been going so hard for so long.

00;08;21;09 - 00;08;36;03
Jimmy May
I didn't give the time to my family. I didn't think about it. I didn't have time, like I would. I was just gone. And I'm really grateful for the opportunity to get the chance to raise my nine year old son. I was concerned that the other two might be like, hey, this is weird that you were never around for us and now you're around for them.

00;08;36;05 - 00;08;55;27
Jimmy May
I think they've both kind of been like, hey, it's kind of cool that, you know, you're realizing this now and how important it is, and, you know, I've worked to keep a strong relationship with them. My daughter's in medical school, so she's super busy, but she makes time for her dad, and I try to take a trip with him, you know, at least once a year where it's just us and we are off the grid.

00;08;56;00 - 00;09;05;11
Jimmy May
As in, phones and stuff don't work because, you know, I would say it's for them, but also for me. I've got three businesses and people trying to get Ahold of me, and sometimes it's better for me just to not have that option.

00;09;05;13 - 00;09;34;10
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, yeah. And how when will you, you know, think about, you know, those years. I mean, you've mentioned this before of the surgeries and trying to, you know, fix the stuff that was broken when you were reflecting on it. What did you have a model for how you wanted to come out as, a father? Did you have some thoughts in your head like, okay, you know, because if your daughter's 24, you're in for 22 years to do some simple math, you you had a couple of years before you became a Navy Seal when you were a dad, but that was a that was a lifetime ago.

00;09;34;15 - 00;09;45;16
Paul Sullivan
So what did you think? Like, okay, you know, Riker, my nine year old, he he's really young. I can, you know, get in there. But what do you think of re also reestablishing those relationships with with your older children?

00;09;45;18 - 00;10;01;26
Jimmy May
Well, so from my daughter, I mean, I'm fortunate. My number one, my daughters always worked hard to maintain a relationship with me even when I was out of pocket. Or was it good to stay in touch because I was gone? She always found a way. In fact, she came down to San Diego to go to college near me, which I thought was amazing.

00;10;01;26 - 00;10;22;21
Jimmy May
And, you know, we tried to have daddy daughter date night and, you know, have our time together, and it's that. So I have to I have to say, give her the credit for that. My my middle son was actually very tight with his with his stepdad, who's a good man. I called him my husband in law. You know, you got to get along with your folks with with you have a broken home.

00;10;22;21 - 00;10;44;09
Jimmy May
You got to get along. And he was a good man. He was different than me in a lot of ways. But my son developed kind of along. That strain was big into baseball because that guy played baseball in college. And then as my, as his mom, as he got out of the house, he's become more, more closely aligned with kind of the things I think is important.

00;10;44;09 - 00;11;03;19
Jimmy May
And we've got to spend more time together. We took a two week trip to South Africa together this year. He's gotten into jujitsu and boxing. And you know, I know it is the parents job to meet the kids where they are. But, it's a lot easier when you have common, like, really common interests. I've done jiu jitsu or wrestling or some kind of combat sport for the last 30 years.

00;11;03;21 - 00;11;15;01
Jimmy May
And, it's just it's a very comfortable space for me. And rolling around on the mat with my son is, you know, something I really look forward to, even though I'm a little bit broken. He's new to the game, so I.

00;11;15;02 - 00;11;17;00
Paul Sullivan
Bet you still have a few moves there. Jimmy.

00;11;17;02 - 00;11;26;29
Jimmy May
Yeah, I mean, I it's only going to matter of time. We were talking about when is he going to be able to beat me up? And I'm thinking, I don't know, it might be maybe 6 to 10 years. That's what I'm thinking.

00;11;26;29 - 00;11;29;26
Paul Sullivan
Six, ten years.

00;11;29;29 - 00;11;34;03
Jimmy May
And that's being honest, I don't know. We have to see what he says.

00;11;34;06 - 00;11;53;02
Paul Sullivan
That's fantastic. And then what? Your nine year old, you know, kids, when they're little, they don't. They're obviously they don't remember as much. And once you're in there and you posted a lot of great stuff, which we'll talk about, you know, later in the podcast, but it seems like, you know, the two of you are like two peas in a pod and you're having a great time together.

00;11;53;05 - 00;12;10;10
Jimmy May
Yeah, I call him the Little Savage. And, he does lots of things. We do beekeeping together. We, you know, he he doesn't care as much for jujitsu. He does it twice a week because, you know, that's kind of what we do in this house. But he got his third strap on his white belt yesterday, and I got to see it really cool.

00;12;10;12 - 00;12;27;21
Jimmy May
And, now we do a lot of things together, and he's really into fish tanks right now, and we spend. It's interesting. Nowadays, kids have this YouTube machine. They can really do research and learn about things. And so we found a fish tank in the alley. I gave him a razor blade and, some vinegar and said, yeah, clean it up if you want it.

00;12;27;21 - 00;12;44;07
Jimmy May
So we cleaned it up and he did everything with, like, filtering the water and making sure the tank turned over and then put the plants. I was super patient, and I actually like that. So I don't watch TV. But when he pops on his YouTube fish tank stuff, sometimes I'll sit down with them. And it's just been, I don't know, I like learning about it.

00;12;44;07 - 00;12;58;04
Jimmy May
So I do a lot of spearfishing and you know, I'm more about the, the sportsman side and that. Yeah, it's kind of cool having a little bubbler going on in his room. And you know, he he's real responsible about those things. So it's it's been really cool.

00;12;58;06 - 00;13;16;26
Paul Sullivan
It's funny. You know. But you know my my 14 year old last night, you know, I began my career as a reporter in Latin America, you know, Mexican origin. And she was doing her Spanish homework and she was asking me the capitals of different countries. And I said you to look it up like I'm. And how are you going to learn if I tell you?

00;13;16;28 - 00;13;35;26
Paul Sullivan
And, and so she, you know, these kids, they just speak into their iPhone. They speak in their iPhone and say, hey, Siri, tell them what's what's, and but the best part of this is she says, you know, she says, what's the capital of Uruguay? And, I said, it's, you know, and she says that it's Asuncion.

00;13;35;26 - 00;13;47;24
Paul Sullivan
And I said, no, it's not. You pronounce Uruguay wrong, it's Montevideo. And she looked at me and she's like, Asuncion is the capital. Paraguay. Until this moment where, you know, dad could, you know, sort of still outsmart, as much theory.

00;13;47;26 - 00;13;51;05
Jimmy May
There's a few and far between, man. We gotta we gotta enjoy them when they happen.

00;13;51;08 - 00;14;08;14
Paul Sullivan
They are, I want to end with a lot to cover here, but, you know, I've spent the past couple of night looking at some of these dad drops that, you know, I found only to be put them out there. What are the dad drops, for the listeners. And why did you, why'd you create them?

00;14;08;17 - 00;14;26;13
Jimmy May
So I've never been allowed to have social media. And I was trying to think about. I need to learn about it. And so I got a LinkedIn page. That's the only one I have. And I was like, well, I'll just post about something. What matters to me, what's important to me. And, you know, what's important to me is learning and the journey of trying to be a good dad.

00;14;26;15 - 00;14;45;08
Jimmy May
And so I just started posting some things online about some of the things that, you know, Ricky and I have been doing. And, and then when I had time with my older kids, you know, and it's a meaningful topic for me, you know, ChatGPT doesn't write my stuff. And I sit down and I try to make it kind of short and digestible and put an interesting pick in there, too.

00;14;45;12 - 00;15;00;16
Jimmy May
And, it's actually garnered quite a bit of support and I've got quite a bit of followers. And, this is the second parenting podcast I've been on. The first one was Connected Parenting with, Jen Gallery, and it's just been an interesting, fun ride to learn about social media this way.

00;15;00;19 - 00;15;21;20
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You talked about, you know, I mean, you're a man of many interests, you chickens and bees. And there's one about cracking open the the beehive where I go that's it's an older one, and it's absolutely charming. Yeah. And I recommend people go and check it out, but essentially, you're putting him through the paces and making sure he has his, a bee proof boots on, and he's smiling like any kid.

00;15;21;20 - 00;15;29;09
Paul Sullivan
But you sound like who you were, who you still are. It's a Navy Seal. And, yeah, you got to be proof. But, dad, you got to get to, you know, visor on.

00;15;29;12 - 00;15;32;19
Jimmy May
And was driving helmet because I didn't have a bee suit for him.

00;15;32;25 - 00;15;33;29
Paul Sullivan
So there's a helmet.

00;15;34;01 - 00;15;46;25
Jimmy May
On him doing it. It was my skydiving helmet. I didn't what, planning on him doing it, but he really wanted to do it, so I, like I built him a bee suit with, like, duct tape and, like, long sleeves and my, my skydiving visor.

00;15;46;28 - 00;16;04;26
Paul Sullivan
It it's it's great. It's so charm. And he's smiling like any kid. But you know, the more you know and I. But but but the more recent ones show him, you know, maturing, the maturing and doing things that are are tough. And it wasn't all about, you know, the sort of, you know, doing tough things for other parents out there.

00;16;04;26 - 00;16;24;22
Paul Sullivan
You know, it's one thing to say, look, this is what dad did, is, you know, how I'm accomplished. I've done a lot of tough things in my life, but how do you think that parent, you in particular, can teach a child and push a kid? Not just to do tough things, but to be intrinsically motivated to do those those tough things.

00;16;24;22 - 00;16;37;11
Paul Sullivan
You know, you talked about the, the the, the fish tank. That's something that you get a Fitbit. How do you think you parents can be inspired to help their kids be intrinsically motivated to do those tough things they're going to need to do, you know, whatever they end up doing in life.

00;16;37;14 - 00;17;01;03
Jimmy May
Yeah, I think that starts with the parent doing tough things like, you know, I tell I tell my kids, anything worth doing is probably hard or else it's not worth doing. And so, we don't take the easy way out around here. You know, with my son, when my son watches TV every single time, every single time there's a commercial, he knocks out a set of push ups for pull ups, and we just try to find ways to like, not be lazy.

00;17;01;03 - 00;17;18;02
Jimmy May
And, So are you doing that? You set that example. You know, if you tell my kid that you don't do jiu jitsu, he'd be like, what? Who doesn't do jiu jitsu? Like this example in his life and all the people that are around him, that's what we do. And so I think that that's probably the most powerful thing you can do.

00;17;18;04 - 00;17;38;22
Jimmy May
And then number two is don't do things for your kids and you can ask him. He'll get a spoiler stuck in the bushes and sideways and he'll be like, dad, you know, come help me. He knows I can touch it not to go over there, you know, unless it's about to fall off a cliff. Otherwise I'd be like, okay, maybe you turn your wheels here.

00;17;38;24 - 00;17;54;19
Jimmy May
I bet if you get off, it'll be lighter. And then you can maybe hit the gas and walk it off there. Try that. And if it doesn't work, then we try something else. It'll take 15 minutes. But you know, when he knows, I can walk up and pick that thing up and just move it. But I don't, I don't, and he knows why.

00;17;54;19 - 00;18;09;05
Jimmy May
And I tell him every night I'm like, do you ever think your dad doesn't love you? He's like, no, like, not even one time. Not even when I don't help you. And he's like, no, I know why you do it. And, you know, I make that narrative clear to him. And, he has a lot of pride in being a capable person.

00;18;09;07 - 00;18;23;15
Jimmy May
And if you see him around, he's a leader in his classroom in school. And, it's because he's just capable. He. We should call up the school. And he's like, hey, would you guys like to do a fish tank? He's like, I'm really into him. And so this school paid for a fish tank and he put it all together.

00;18;23;15 - 00;18;32;20
Jimmy May
And now the school has a fish tank. And I was pretty proud of him because I didn't have much to do with that. He just kind of decided that this was an interest, a way he could give back to the school. And he wanted to do it really cool.

00;18;32;20 - 00;18;39;26
Paul Sullivan
That's wonderful. And it was just something that you learned in your own childhood. This is how it was with your father.

00;18;39;29 - 00;18;59;03
Jimmy May
It was different in my childhood because we had three kids and my dad worked three minimum wage jobs. We were super poor at one. I mean, up until about, I don't know, 15 years ago there was never a actually, about five years ago, there was never a member of my family that didn't live in a trailer. So we came from really humble means.

00;18;59;05 - 00;19;20;16
Jimmy May
And, you know, my, my dad was gone all the time. I never really saw him until I got older. And we got older. We didn't get along very well. He ended up dying of cancer. And I will say, before he died, he really changed his ways. I'm not here to talk bad about my dad. He kind of saw the writing on the wall and made a great flip.

00;19;20;18 - 00;19;48;04
Jimmy May
And, you know, I respect him for that. And then, my mom, she had to work, too. But she also had, you know, three kids raise. So we were doing things on our own. I think today you couldn't get away with that. Like, I came home. I had the key to the house. I let myself in. I would watch Superfriends and then ThunderCats and then, you know, then later on, my parents would come home maybe 3 or 4 hours later, when I got up in the mornings, there was a glass of milk and a bowl of cereal in the in the bottom shelf of the fridge where I could reach.

00;19;48;04 - 00;19;54;10
Jimmy May
And I would do that. So we were pretty independent growing up, but I think it was more by necessity, not by design.

00;19;54;12 - 00;20;13;09
Paul Sullivan
You know, it's just from I remember years ago the Navy did a study on, you know, what makes a seal a seal? Because, you know, for listeners, you know, the failure rate in bud is, enormous. And these are all guys who come in thinking they can do it, you know, for sport athletes, super football players, you know, all of this.

00;20;13;09 - 00;20;29;19
Paul Sullivan
And you know our mutual friend. You know, Pat, I mean, I remember he told me when he was going through bud. You know, if I remember correctly, you had sort of two tries to do something and everything was weighted similarly. And he was trying to tie a knot off underwater and he rear and he couldn't and he failed the first time.

00;20;29;19 - 00;21;01;24
Paul Sullivan
And then he realized that the reason why he failed is because when he practiced it, you didn't have a wetsuit on. And so he was too buoyant and it was messing him up, took the wetsuit off, jump back in, you know, tied it. And he went on to become a, you know, gain stride and become a seal. But is that when you think about the differentiator between who becomes a seal and all those other people who are super athletic, super smart, super strong and they don't make it, is it that ability to think quickly and figure things out more so than it is at any intrinsic, you know, athletic ability?

00;21;01;26 - 00;21;16;12
Jimmy May
You know, you have to have a base level of athletic ability. If you don't have it, you just can't do it. I mean, it's extremely, extremely athletic. You run six miles a day just to get food that doesn't even that's not even on the schedule. That's six miles of running. You do back and forth from the chow hall.

00;21;16;12 - 00;21;33;15
Jimmy May
That's not even on the schedule that you do every day. And so, you know, and helping these guys are going to run over 200 miles without sleeping for five and a half days. And guess what? They're not running slick. They're carrying logs and boats and it's a beat down, so to say. It's all mental because I've and that's the thing to say is not true.

00;21;33;18 - 00;21;51;26
Jimmy May
You've got to have a good baseline physical. And then, I used to be the executive officer of Bud's, which is our Seal selection and training, and we put a lot of time and effort into figuring out, hey, let's not waste time with people that can't make it. Let's be real deliberate about our selection. And there wasn't really anything we could find that was like a real I'm serious.

00;21;51;26 - 00;22;23;15
Jimmy May
I know it sounds crazy, but the biggest common commonality we found about guys who made it and I it's not lost on me that this is a company that adds podcasts, but they had good relationships with their moms. That was the biggest correlation. I mean, there really wasn't anything different parts of the country. Like there's a small difference between I think for some reason, this was suprising to me, but, people from New England did really well, little bit, a little tick up and then, California and Texas, which are on opposite ends of the spectrum politically.

00;22;23;15 - 00;22;43;09
Jimmy May
And yeah. So it's I don't know, those were kind of a couple of commonalities, but it was really hard to find. And we had these two lieutenants that went to MIT. A lot of our officers now are Ivy League guys, and they, they came up with this plan and a lot of it was peri vowels, instructor evals, selfie vowels.

00;22;43;12 - 00;23;08;01
Jimmy May
And they found a correlation. But it's really it's loose. It's real abstract. Right now. It'd be interesting to dump some air into that to see what I had to say about it. But, the score was like 1 to 467 and above. The score of 185 was kind of a tipping point, and it really didn't have much to do with whether you grew up in Hollywood or in, you know, some small town in Louisiana.

00;23;08;08 - 00;23;27;24
Jimmy May
It had a lot more to do about, you know, I think the the blue collar folks that have been ground on a bit, the people that, you know, all of our guys are the prom king. All of our guys are the toughest dude that everybody ever met. When they come jump into buds and the facts are 85% and that's light are going to quit.

00;23;27;26 - 00;23;43;13
Jimmy May
It's just facts and they're all gonna have their first failure. So it's been a real hard thing to quantify. And the Navy's definitely been honest, especially during the wars when they were like, hey, we need to get more you guys to make more seals, make it easier. But it's like, that's not what we need. You know, we're a very niche, high end special forces group.

00;23;43;13 - 00;23;46;08
Jimmy May
And you don't need you can't mass produce them.

00;23;46;10 - 00;24;12;08
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. That's fascinating. You know, I want to talk a little bit now pivot a little bit to, to your nonprofit and you know that, you know, like, have you, you have another family, really that is a that's deeply close to your fellow seals and, you know, it's it's a real brotherhood. It's a real connection. And you have this shared experience like, you know, no, no other your nonprofit who said at the top it's called Beyond the Brotherhood.

00;24;12;11 - 00;24;33;23
Paul Sullivan
Talk about how you, you know, see this this, this group, you know, supporting, as you say, seals of character as they they trying to, you know, get out of, as you just said, a very specialized special forces niche and, you know, do whatever they going to do with, with the rest of their lives.

00;24;33;25 - 00;24;53;22
Jimmy May
Okay. So I just went through the transition to the civilian sector. And in the last couple of years, the wars have been spinning down. So I didn't expect to see so many of my friends dying anymore. I thought it was kind of like done, but it spiked and that spike was from suicide. In fact, I retired on January 1st, and between my retirement and April, I lost for my friends by their own hand.

00;24;53;24 - 00;25;14;11
Jimmy May
And, I was like, something has got to change. What is the problem? And so I looked at it and it's the template. I mean, it's a little different, but oftentimes it's someone who's been out of the teams for 6 to 8 years. They're doing well financially and they just lost that purpose. They lost that community and they lost a worthy goal.

00;25;14;13 - 00;25;31;16
Jimmy May
So they're making money. But you know, when you've been fighting for a cause, it's deeper and harder for you. Money seems a little hollow. So I make money with made executive that's that pays the bills. But what's good for my soul is beyond the brotherhood and what we do for these guys. We screen them, make sure they have.

00;25;31;16 - 00;26;02;07
Jimmy May
They leave in good standing because I'm serving the Seal teams, and it's our guys that get out under the wrong auspices. It's not the right. It's not the right fit for us. And then we have partners that we set up for, for hiring. You get used to moving in circles with normal people. I know it sounds weird, but when you're like, in that dark hole, that is, you know, the world of the seal, you're just it's not the same reality when you come out and, things you expect people to be able to do and they just it's just a lot different.

00;26;02;09 - 00;26;19;16
Jimmy May
And so, what we do is we bring these guys in, we get them ready for their next job, we introduce them people that are in that level that are at the right level, and we start bringing them along. And we did in 2021, we did, 14 guys. And this year we've had a lot. I can't keep up with it.

00;26;19;16 - 00;26;50;01
Jimmy May
And we're actually trying to slow down because we don't I don't have the funding to continue to like at the pace we're going, but it's definitely been something that's been powerful. I don't know, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't know how this is going to affect the suicide rate, but I think that having guys still connected to the community, giving them a purpose other than themselves and making money and giving them goals, through the stuff that we do it beyond the brotherhood, I think it's going to help.

00;26;50;03 - 00;26;52;03
Jimmy May
So that's how I feel about it.

00;26;52;05 - 00;27;11;27
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And I think I've thought about this for years because I had a friend who was, an admiral, Navy admiral, and he had been in, defense logistics and, you know, did his job. Everyone it has a job, too. But when he got out, he got a great job in the corporate sector. And it was easy because he knew how to do the joysticks for for the Navy and in the private sector.

00;27;12;00 - 00;27;33;08
Paul Sullivan
He knew more than anybody else. But for your guys, you know, when you're trying to get them into the private sector and they're, you know, what are those guys skills, you know, and a ridiculous amount of teamwork, a ridiculous amount of focus, a ridiculous amount of of dedication, to a cause I'd say probably a lot of them are fairly, you know, selfless.

00;27;33;08 - 00;27;48;05
Paul Sullivan
If they're, they're, you know, thinking of the team in the greater good beyond themselves. What are some, roles or jobs, in the civilian world where they can make a good transition from the teams to, you know, XYZ company.

00;27;48;08 - 00;28;00;24
Jimmy May
So we're small enough to where I don't have a one size fits none solution. I used to go by what the guys want to do, and we have a lot of guys. They're interested, believe it or not, in real estate entrepreneurship, which entrepreneurship makes a lot of sense to me.

00;28;00;25 - 00;28;02;03
Paul Sullivan
Makes sense. Yeah.

00;28;02;06 - 00;28;16;27
Jimmy May
Our job is very entrepreneurial. You know, I dropped some guy in Afghanistan with, you know, a pocket full of money and, you know, a quick refrigerator full of steaks. And he has to figure out how to, like, bring that village to our side or whatever it is we need to do that. So it's entrepreneurial in that way.

00;28;16;27 - 00;28;38;12
Jimmy May
So we have a lot of guys that are interested in entrepreneurship, but that's a hard road. You know, it's easier if you have a pension if they retire. So now they have something to kind of support as they get up and running. But that's been a really fruitful field for us. And then for I have when I have guys that have been in longer, you know, high level operations jobs within companies, maybe just below C-suite or just coming into C-suite.

00;28;38;14 - 00;28;55;05
Jimmy May
One of our guys was the commodore of all the West Coast Seal teams. So this guy is a high powered dude. He's got a job lined up. He's going to do phenomenal. But that's not a guy that you're going to, you know, dump into an assembly line at, at a warehouse. This is a guy that is, you know, his rightful place is going to be up in the C-suite with America.

00;28;55;07 - 00;29;12;14
Jimmy May
With corporate America, if that's what he chooses to do. And, he just doesn't have he just doesn't have the resume to write it, you know what I mean? Like, he's not going to be able to like people and the systems are used to selling themselves. So they have to, like, figure out, how am I going to write this, you know, and maintain, you know, my humility and discipline.

00;29;12;14 - 00;29;17;03
Jimmy May
And it's a little bit different when you get out. And that's kind of we do that for the guys.

00;29;17;06 - 00;29;39;06
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. I you know, and I'm not playing this for laughs. But I you see like a corporate resume and all these guys are puffing it up and they did X, Y and Z where your guys would seem like the opposite. You can say like, oh, on my fifth deployment I was here and I did, you know, it's it's a different, you know, level of speed, but you know, but from your own experience and, you know, as you said, you had a couple of years of the surgeries to kind of think through things.

00;29;39;06 - 00;29;55;07
Paul Sullivan
But as your own experience, what were the key things for you to be able to, you know, make this, you know, transition from a highly decorated, very well respected CEO to, you know, an entrepreneur and the leader of an important nonprofit.

00;29;55;09 - 00;30;00;02
Jimmy May
I'm not any more decorated than most team guys have spent that kind of time in during the wars. It was a.

00;30;00;04 - 00;30;05;26
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, I've I've talked to people before who have a Bronze Star. I've never talked to anybody with three Bronze Stars.

00;30;05;28 - 00;30;31;04
Jimmy May
Most guys don't walk around saying that. But because a lot of times when you have awards higher up like that, things didn't go well. So, anyway. Right. So you got a lot of words and there's like cyber, right. What helped me transition? You know what? I've got a great group of mentors. And before so about in 2012, 2013, the, they asked me to start teaching combat leadership.

00;30;31;04 - 00;30;45;01
Jimmy May
And I was like, guys, I don't want to do that because I didn't like to talk about those things that make me sick to my stomach. I don't think I had the best combat record, to be completely honest. I had plenty of guys get hit and killed on my watch, and that's a wait, right? And so I didn't want to do it.

00;30;45;04 - 00;31;04;22
Jimmy May
But there's these master chiefs, which is like senior enlisted in the Navy. And I really respected these three dudes. And they were like, we want you to do it, and you're doing it. Just do it once. I'm like, okay, so I decided to do nothing but talk about things that were that I screwed up, think, you know, never asked me to do it again.

00;31;04;29 - 00;31;20;15
Jimmy May
And I remember it was a hard cutoff for me to have because I feel sick to my stomach. And talking about these guys were, you know, on these ops got hit and like, you know what I thought happened, but what really happened, it was just, you know, it was a painful thing for me to do. But what I've done, I'm like, I have to do that again, because that was terrible.

00;31;20;17 - 00;31;43;04
Jimmy May
What turned out to be super popular. And, you know, the guys wanted to hear the didn't want to hear about the perfect OP. They want to hear about, you know, everything that went right. They wanted to hear about what went wrong and, you know, well, my judgment was clouded. And some of the things that I learned later on and was really cool is this guys came up to the teams, they'd be in those classes, and I would say it and their story might be even different.

00;31;43;04 - 00;32;03;00
Jimmy May
I'm like, what, you want? The same OP, but they were listening to different channels in their ears. They were. Yeah. But anyway, it's going to create this converging ability to want validity of what went down. And it was really cool. And you know, it was good for me. It was good for me to get those things off because I thought people were going to be, you know, laughing at me or Jimmy's an idiot, and it didn't happen that way.

00;32;03;01 - 00;32;23;25
Jimmy May
You know, guys, you kind of look at me like, I get it. I see what happened and yeah, you wrong on this thing, but I get it. And, it was really super healthy for me. Now, how this transitions to your question is that, I got referred to work with, the CEO of pre-K, Steve Catena, and they were like, hey, we hear you.

00;32;23;25 - 00;32;38;08
Jimmy May
I was at Home Depot, and this guy was like, hey, are you Jimmy Manly? Yeah. Like, what's up? He's like, hey, my, there's a CEO that want to talk to you. It's come of the things that you teach in the teams, would you be interested in like teaching a team? Work for them. And I'm like, I don't do that.

00;32;38;10 - 00;32;56;27
Jimmy May
So. So I went there and I decided to do it, and I didn't, I didn't charge me anything because you're not allowed to make money on the outside. And they were like, we got to pay you something. And I was like, you know what? I know what I want. Will you be my mentor? I just need someone to me because I'm a I'm going to be transitioning here in a few years.

00;32;56;27 - 00;33;16;23
Jimmy May
And I, I'm just don't know where to start. And you want to talk about the best investment of my life that, I mean, between Steve and this guy named Brian Tucker, who runs Cuna Brava Surf and Golf Club, that is, he's the one that had said you could be on the Brotherhood. These guys have got me up and running and it took time.

00;33;16;24 - 00;33;31;23
Jimmy May
It coached me along the way. I've had some bad things, but they still are in my corner pulling for me. And, you know, having some mentors like that and having a community to fall into, I was fortunate I wasn't my own doing. I just got lucky. And, you know, I still talk to I play, I text Steve every day.

00;33;31;23 - 00;33;49;24
Jimmy May
We probably talk 2 or 3 times a week. And, the same thing with Brian, and it's just been a really good thing for me. And so when I saw that and we saw what that did for me, Brian, who is the CEO at Punto Bravo, was like, hey, let's use Punto Bravo as a vehicle through Beyond the Brotherhood and let's, let's, let's do this.

00;33;49;24 - 00;34;10;25
Jimmy May
And that's like, we have to we want to have a benevolent arm. Let's do that. So we built beyond the Brotherhood, with Brian. And I want to provide that mentorship for these guys coming out. But it's you can't do it for the masses. I can't do, like, 500 people, but I can do, you know, 10 or 15 a year, and in a couple years, it'll be a powerful group and maybe they can pay that forward.

00;34;10;25 - 00;34;18;15
Jimmy May
So I think the best thing that helped me with my transition was those those mentors. And I'm super grateful to them.

00;34;18;17 - 00;34;40;23
Paul Sullivan
It's been great. Jimmy made Navy Seal entrepreneur or CEO of Beyond the Brotherhood. And of course, father, thank you for being my guest and accompanied that podcast. One final question what's work life balance like for you now as a father and a business owner?

00;34;40;26 - 00;34;58;18
Jimmy May
I love that question. I don't think there's such thing as work life balance. It's all over the place. When I was in the military was all work, no life, and now I'm only been out for a year. I really try to prioritize my kids in whatever way I can. If my daughter has a weekend when she's got off because she has to study a lot, I'm on it.

00;34;58;18 - 00;35;15;19
Jimmy May
Whatever, wherever she wants to go, I'm there and we'll do it. So that's kind of the deal. I booked us to go to this NASCAR race. You wanted to be in the middle and it didn't quite. She her plans changed. So now, I can't do it. But those two, I try to do something big with them. Every single year.

00;35;15;22 - 00;35;35;24
Jimmy May
And so I took my son to South Africa, my oldest son and my youngest son. We did two weeks off the grid when very little phones camping in like, these national parks and just figuring out self-catered safari. And then for my little one, you know, we I try to just be a guide for him and prioritize him and everything.

00;35;35;24 - 00;35;54;14
Jimmy May
I dropped him off at school this morning. I'm going to pick him up after school. And, I split time with him and his, and his mom. I'm 5050. I'm militant about it. Like, you know, I get my 15 days a month no matter what. And, it's been a really good relationship. I'm grateful that his mom has been such a good partner and co-parenting.

00;35;54;16 - 00;36;10;24
Jimmy May
And, I'm just grateful for the time that I have with my kids. And I try to not lose track of that. So my work life balance is much more on the life side. It's more of a life work balance. I work, you know, 4:36 a.m. or, you know, when he's at school and then when he comes home, I try to be present.

00;36;10;26 - 00;36;15;22
Paul Sullivan
Jimmy, thank you again for being my guest on the Company Dads podcast. It's been a great conversation.

00;36;15;25 - 00;36;23;16
Jimmy May
Hey, thanks for having me, Paul. I appreciate it. And if I can do anything, I'm very interested in being involved in the company of dads. It's a cause near and dear to my heart.

00;36;23;18 - 00;36;45;24
Paul Sullivan
I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the company of that podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do with the company of dads. Possible. Helder Mira, who is our audio producer Lindsay Decker and is all of our social media, Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition.

00;36;45;26 - 00;37;05;06
Paul Sullivan
Emily Servin, who is our web maestro, and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me on many of the things that we do here at The Company of Dads. It's a great team. And we're we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop for everything is our newsletter, the dad.

00;37;05;06 - 00;37;10;11
Paul Sullivan
Sign up at the company of dads.com backslash. The dad. Thank you again for listening.