EP116: Lessons From A Divorce That Never Ends

Interview with Sean Keenan / Lessons from a Divorced Dad

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Sean Keenan, an economist by training, has a harrowing story about a divorce that went to such a dark place. The least of it was it drained his savings account. His two children were put at the center of a horrifying alimony and custody battle. The accusations and allegations are extreme and terrifying for any parent. He’s not exactly coming out of it now, but he does have residential custody of his son and daughter. Here's what he learned.  

---

Get our free newsletter covering all things fatherhood delivered straight to your inbox: https://thecompanyofdads.com/thedad/

Transcript

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;23;08
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, silly, strange and sublime aspects of being a dad in a world where men with a go to parent aren't always accepted at work, among their friends, or in the community for what they're doing. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Our podcast is just one of the many things we produce each week.

00;00;23;08 - 00;00;43;29
Paul Sullivan
At the company of that, we have various features, including lead dad of the week, we have our monthly meetups. We have a new resource library for all fathers. The one stop shop for all of this is our newsletter, The Dad. So sign up today at the company of dads.com backslash the dad. Today our guest is Sean Keenan, an economist by training.

00;00;44;01 - 00;01;05;03
Paul Sullivan
But we're not here to talk about econ or work. We're here to talk about his harrowing story around divorce that were to such a very dark place. The least of it was it drained a savings account. His two children were put at the center of a horrifying alimony and custody battle. The accusations and allegations are extreme and terrifying for any parent.

00;01;05;05 - 00;01;24;13
Paul Sullivan
He's not exactly coming out of it now, but he does have residential custody of his son and daughter, both in high school. Welcome, Sean, to the company. Thank you. You've been through a lot. Yeah. You've gone through a lot with your divorce. You're married for three and a half years. Your. Your kids are in high school now.

00;01;24;15 - 00;01;35;20
Paul Sullivan
It's still ongoing. Let's start with a short description of how it all started and how we got to where we are now.

00;01;35;22 - 00;02;12;24
Sean Keenan
Well, When I filed for divorce in 2010, my son was just over one year old, and my daughter was three and a half years old. And, we had actually been seeing a family counselor because my daughter, a three and a half, kept saying she was very sad and acting depressed. So, we went to, a good outfit and Westport, Connecticut family counseling service and,

00;02;12;27 - 00;02;45;06
Sean Keenan
The counselor was concerned about the dynamic, and, he recommended couples counseling as well as counseling with my daughter. And, at this point, my ex was becoming I mean, from my perspective, increasingly unstable. And her behavior in the house while I was at work seemed to be a major contributing factor to the distress of our young daughter.

00;02;45;08 - 00;03;13;01
Sean Keenan
And, after several explosive sessions with this counselor, he. When I was alone with him, he said, I think you need to start worrying about protecting yourself and your children more than you're worried about trying to protect this relationship, because it does not look salvageable in. So, I didn't do I didn't file for divorce right away, but the situation did get worse.

00;03;13;01 - 00;03;23;25
Sean Keenan
And, I was afraid for the safety of my children. And I thought they needed a safe environment. And, I filed for divorce.

00;03;23;28 - 00;03;50;25
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And look, you know, millions of people file for divorce, every year. But this, was the furthest thing from, a straightforward divorce. Or as it's become, you know, a decade plus later, when did you realize that it wasn't going to be, a straightforward divorce where people just split up and the assets divide, you know, visitation with the kids and co-parent and and go from there.

00;03;50;26 - 00;03;54;28
Paul Sullivan
When did you realize that this was going to be, way more complicated than that?

00;03;55;01 - 00;04;21;28
Sean Keenan
Well, about, five weeks after I filed for divorce, I still living in the house and the guest room, it was my turn to take my daughter to preschool, and so I was getting her ready, and my ex came down and was in a state, and, So I got my daughter into the car, in the car seat.

00;04;21;28 - 00;04;42;14
Sean Keenan
And then I came back in and I said, what is wrong? And she said, I have video proof and audio proof that you've been molesting the children. And I knew then that this was crazy. Getting crazy. What was,

00;04;42;16 - 00;04;45;25
Paul Sullivan
How do you even respond to that?

00;04;45;28 - 00;05;09;01
Sean Keenan
Well, I said, you're not going to get away with this because I wasn't molesting them. So the fact that she was saying this was clear she was planning to manipulate the divorce procedure in this way. And, And I shook my fist at her, and I was arrested for that. So that was turned into. I threatened to kill her, and I was facing criminal charges for that.

00;05;09;03 - 00;05;34;21
Sean Keenan
Like within, I was arrested within, a few days after that and then an ex. So. But just to back up for a minute, she went to the family counselor with an audiotape that she made by putting a secret recording device under my daughter's pillow to record us while I put her to bed, because I put my daughter to bed every night.

00;05;34;23 - 00;05;35;11
Paul Sullivan
Yeah.

00;05;35;13 - 00;05;57;10
Sean Keenan
My son was too young, so I come home from work. My son was already asleep, and since I didn't get a chance to put him to bed, I would put my daughter back. So she recorded that and she showed the played the recording for, This family therapist. And he said, I don't see any evidence of, of what you're talking about on tape.

00;05;57;13 - 00;06;24;21
Sean Keenan
It's just murmuring sounds. And that's important because after the guardian ad litem got involved, she said that therapists will never testify. He will not be allowed in court because he was going to testify. In my defense, he was the only witness to the whole thing. He was the family counselor. The gal said he will never appear in court, and he never did.

00;06;24;23 - 00;06;48;01
Sean Keenan
And he wrote her letters and they were unreturned and unresponsive to. So I'm jumping ahead a little bit. But the point here is, a guardian ad litem in the state of Connecticut takes over complete control of a custody case and determines what witnesses, what evidence will come in, what witnesses will testify, who gets time with the children?

00;06;48;04 - 00;07;08;00
Sean Keenan
In my case, she wrote the judge's orders. Two years later, we had a huge trial in Middletown. Six day trial, enormous expense with a six day trial. And at the end of that, the guardian ad litem presented the judge with orders that she had written, and he accepted them.

00;07;08;03 - 00;07;26;00
Paul Sullivan
So what was your attorney saying, that you had a divorce attorney? And again, like, bring this back. Most people, if it gets contentious, it probably go to some sort of mediator. After the mediator sort of works it out, it becomes more of a financial deal. Otherwise you rack up a whole bunch of attorney bills. Yours went right to court.

00;07;26;00 - 00;07;41;19
Paul Sullivan
And I've never heard of this person I've ever heard of a six day, you know, trial for a divorce. Me, even billionaires, they just negotiate it out and it's and it's done. So what was your attorney advising you at the time? What was he or she telling you? You know, what was going on?

00;07;41;20 - 00;08;13;15
Sean Keenan
Well, my attorney's position, and he got me the worst, the worst decision imaginable. So I would certainly have been. I would probably have gotten a better result if I had represented myself. And, let's just see where he is. So he charged me $750,000, which is all I had. I was totally wiped out, actually, the he had an outstanding invoice for another $240,000, which he didn't press upon me because he lost the case.

00;08;13;18 - 00;08;41;13
Sean Keenan
But, his position was it's all about the sexual abuse charges. And if if you're found to have molested the children, you go to prison. But if you're found not to have molested the children, you win the case because she's made false, false allegations against you. So it was all about defending myself against these allegations. What he didn't understand was the girl knew she was lying and told me later, I don't care if she's lying.

00;08;41;19 - 00;08;45;17
Sean Keenan
I don't care about the allegations. I'm going to destroy you.

00;08;45;20 - 00;08;58;21
Paul Sullivan
And when you say that, I mean this is such a nightmare scenario for any human. Not not not a dad, not mom's any human. Why, why, why would why in the world would somebody say that to another human being? I'm. Yeah.

00;08;58;23 - 00;09;26;12
Sean Keenan
So it's a great question. I think, you have to use a little political science to answer it. Who wants a job where they have complete authority over other other human beings and and have a total immunity? It's the old adage about power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So people end up in these jobs that are bullies.

00;09;26;14 - 00;09;53;02
Sean Keenan
They seek out this kind of work. They they and especially if they have some bias that they want to meet out. So who ends up in divorce court in, in Connecticut? A lot of wealthy or upper middle class couples and, the gal has the ability to just do anything they want to. Those people look at anything.

00;09;53;05 - 00;10;00;13
Paul Sullivan
This gal or this, this role is this in every sort of divorce case in Connecticut, or do they only get called in in certain situations?

00;10;00;13 - 00;10;30;16
Sean Keenan
Well, that's a good question. They certainly get called in more often when there's money at stake. Now, what I testified about my case and about the role of the gal at the Senate, the Senate Combined Finance and Judiciary Committee hearing in 2014, when the total immunity of the Gal was being discussed, because there was some legislature introduced to try to to limit, limit, the immunity and to give parents some choice.

00;10;30;18 - 00;11;04;07
Sean Keenan
And there's an interesting anecdote, because my gal testified right before me, I followed her. But in getting prepared for that testimony, I was shocked to learn that the chairperson of the Connecticut Judiciary Committee was herself a gal on the side at $450 an hour, being a guardian ad litem in cases which were outside her jurisdiction. In fact, several members of the Connecticut Senate Judiciary Committee moonlight as gals.

00;11;04;09 - 00;11;10;12
Paul Sullivan
And what is there in an ideal world like? What is their role supposed to be? I understand yours, it was.

00;11;10;15 - 00;11;42;18
Sean Keenan
Supposed to inform the court. Okay, so they they're supposed to be eyes and ears for a judge who doesn't have the time to investigate the details of a contested custody case. Now, my case is also, instructive for people who may be facing the situation or may face a situation in the future, in that there's another set of eyes and ears for the court, and that is the what we have in Connecticut.

00;11;42;18 - 00;12;13;07
Sean Keenan
We call the, Department of Children and Families DCF. So sometimes it's in other states. It's called child Protective Services or different titles, but it's always the same. It's a state agency was designed to protect children and to investigate the welfare of children, which include high custody, high conflict custody cases. In my case, DCF was over the last five years completely excluded from the process.

00;12;13;09 - 00;12;26;20
Sean Keenan
And the judge said DCF is not allowed in my court. No DCF testimony, no DCF reports, no evidence from DCF is allowed in the courtroom.

00;12;26;23 - 00;12;43;21
Paul Sullivan
Back it up here and you kind of pull the camera back. I mean, as this is happening, you know, is anybody telling you okay, you know, Sean, here's a way. This is what you need to do to bring this to an end. Hey, Sean, this is what you need to do to extricate yourself and get the best outcome for you and your children.

00;12;43;21 - 00;12;46;15
Paul Sullivan
Are you getting any any advice like that along the way?

00;12;46;17 - 00;13;11;18
Sean Keenan
While the judges, the lawyers will always tell you, yes, they know how to take care of this. They know people. They've been through this before. And then, you know, you have to put up at least a $25,000 retainer, and their initial investigation is going to run you another $100,000. And then, you know, within six months, nine months, they know that the jail in my case with Sharon Dornfeld is the head gal.

00;13;11;21 - 00;13;31;28
Sean Keenan
They know that the, the the trial judge was Judge Edelman and they know that the current judge is Judge Winslow. And and they know that there's nothing that they can do. So they wait until you've paid all you can pay and you're broke again, and then they just abandon you. They, they, they do not want to go up against a corrupt system.

00;13;32;00 - 00;13;44;26
Sean Keenan
Your one client and there are many other clients out there. So and, and after you've been their client for a year or so, they're pretty sure you don't have any more money. So they're ready to move on.

00;13;44;29 - 00;13;49;02
Paul Sullivan
How much money do you think you've paid to attorneys over the years?

00;13;49;05 - 00;14;15;18
Sean Keenan
Attorneys are probably paid, which includes my ex attorney, because she doesn't work. She never worked. She's on disability. So I always had to pay the attorney who was attacking me. So I probably paid that attorney's $600,000 and other attorneys close to million, at least over $1 million. But I've also paid my ex almost $2.7 million of alimony, which I didn't have.

00;14;15;21 - 00;14;37;03
Sean Keenan
So all almost all of my earnings over the last 13 years went to attorneys fees and alimony in order to protect my children. We have no money to send them to college. When when you look and get residential custody until last. Until last year, they're in high school.

00;14;37;05 - 00;14;45;03
Paul Sullivan
Right. And residential custody means it's a to live with you full time. And they don't live with their mother. Is that is that correct?

00;14;45;10 - 00;14;47;27
Sean Keenan
You have no contact with the biological mother.

00;14;48;00 - 00;15;12;09
Paul Sullivan
They have no contact with her. And one of the things you told me, you know, off camera, was that you were married for three and a half years. But you're obligated to pay lifetime alimony, which is something I've never heard of. I thought the formula was, you know, you're married for ten years. They take, you know, you pay alimony for four years or something like that or six years.

00;15;12;12 - 00;15;17;25
Paul Sullivan
How did this come about? And can you ever get out of it?

00;15;17;27 - 00;15;41;28
Sean Keenan
Well, I'm trying to get out of it in my argument. I will tell you what my argument is. But, there's one answer. The answer is the gal decided that she didn't like me from day one, and she, she was aware that she could destroy me. And she was aware that I didn't think this was possible. I'm a taxpayer.

00;15;41;28 - 00;16;01;20
Sean Keenan
I'm an American. I didn't do anything wrong. I have no, I don't drink or smoke or litter. So she enjoyed, torturing me and my children, and she put them in harm's way, and they'd been harmed. But she also, she was the one who wrote the orders lifetime alimony and gave it to the judge.

00;16;01;22 - 00;16;06;26
Paul Sullivan
But there is an appeal process in this country. I did appeal, appeal and.

00;16;06;28 - 00;16;34;26
Sean Keenan
An appellate court wrote an opinion, which I can use now to go back and argue that this should be changed. But they did not overturn the lower court decision. It was a terrible disappointment because, frankly, I think the lawyer argued the case the wrong way. I wish I had been there representing myself. I mean, that's a message for people who are in these cases, you're probably better off representing yourself.

00;16;34;28 - 00;16;41;14
Paul Sullivan
Because you're the one who's closest to it. You're the one who knows it the best, and you're the one that's the most at stake. Is that wire that that.

00;16;41;14 - 00;17;00;18
Sean Keenan
And someone needs to own the outcome. And, you're the one that's going to lead on the outcome. So if you do not succeed, then, okay, you didn't succeed. But if you pay someone a lot of money and then they don't do a good job for you, then they walk away with your money and you're left with a bad outcome.

00;17;00;21 - 00;17;08;12
Paul Sullivan
Right? Right. I mean, you don't have to tell me your age that Gina in your 50s. Is that fair to say.

00;17;08;14 - 00;17;09;18
Sean Keenan
I'm 60 to.

00;17;09;20 - 00;17;28;25
Paul Sullivan
62? Okay, so you're married for three and a half years. You 62. Your ex-wife could be around your age. She could live another 25 years, probably easily. And you're on the hook from that three and a half year marriage for, you know, 35 to 40 years of abandonment. Is that correct?

00;17;28;28 - 00;17;49;25
Sean Keenan
Well, attorneys have told me that I can that that alimony doesn't follow through retirement, that once I retire that I will the alimony will stop. But that's one of many, many, many, many things that lawyers have told me that have all been proved false because it's all up to the judge in family court. The judge makes up the rules as they go along.

00;17;49;27 - 00;17;59;02
Sean Keenan
They do whatever they want. So let me jump to this because I think this is really important.

00;17;59;05 - 00;18;10;00
Sean Keenan
I was exonerated of all of the allegations of abuse, but the children were abused. They're very serious and abused by their mother.

00;18;10;02 - 00;18;10;18
Paul Sullivan


00;18;10;20 - 00;18;48;10
Sean Keenan
And these it took DCF years to create the conditions under which that evidence could be brought to light. And those findings could be substantiated. And the judge will not let that evidence into court. So the judge is aware that what we're doing here is we're protecting and rewarding, a person who is perjured herself, who's an admitted drug abuser and is a child abuser at the expense of the of our family and even the children's higher education.

00;18;48;12 - 00;19;00;20
Sean Keenan
That's the judge's priority to reward and protect a child abuser, a drug addicted child abuser, and to punish a family and the children.

00;19;00;22 - 00;19;11;27
Paul Sullivan
But when you go to court and you talk to the judge and with the attorney around you, what is the justification that the court gives or allowing this to stand for not taking that evidence?

00;19;11;27 - 00;19;31;29
Sean Keenan
It's hard to believe and it's hard to explain. But, you get marked and, you're an enemy of the court. And the girl that I had was very powerful, and she hated me and marked me. And she's able she talks to the judges. Even though she's retired, she still works in the court system and talks to all these people.

00;19;31;29 - 00;19;50;28
Sean Keenan
And they just say, this is a bad actor, this is a bad guy. We need to punish him. And she's able to do that. And the facts do not matter. I mean, the facts never mattered. Think about it. False sexual abuse allegations. The trial judge said, well, we can't give the father access to the children because he's angry and that's bad.

00;19;51;01 - 00;20;10;28
Sean Keenan
He's a bad parent. Whereas the mother now admits that she lied about the allegations, so she's gotten over it. So she's the better parent. That was the reasoning, the judge's ruling that actually said, I don't like the expression on his face.

00;20;11;00 - 00;20;31;26
Paul Sullivan
You know, throughout all of this, you know, you you are an economist. You continued working. How have you been able to, you know, I don't know, compartmentalize. You can't possibly separate. How have you been out compartmentalize all of this and still, you know, maintain high performance at work. You know, again, you must be doing quite well. You you've paid your ex-wife several million dollars.

00;20;31;26 - 00;20;42;26
Paul Sullivan
I mean, you had earned that somehow. How have you been able to, you know, still work and then, you know, manage everything around a divorce and protect your, your children at the same time?

00;20;42;29 - 00;21;20;22
Sean Keenan
Well, I was fortunate enough to meet a woman who had been through her own divorce situation. Not like mine, but still some parallels who had raised four children and, and, that's my wife now. And, Without her, I wouldn't have survived. I would not have survived. I mean, it was it was, and I've also had, this is the fourth job I've had during this 13 years.

00;21;20;25 - 00;21;55;17
Sean Keenan
Not not not because of just me. I mean, I worked for some companies that went through some tumultuous changes. And in the finance industry, you know, the job security is hard to come by. Right? So, but those, those job changes have been, challenging. We've had, health problems. I mean, but my, my wife, is a family therapist, and it's just,

00;21;55;19 - 00;22;23;01
Sean Keenan
She supported us. Not just me, the children. You know, think about having your mother abandoned you. I abuse you and then abandoned you, right? I mean, the children who are getting, like, honors grades and are active in sports, at their high school, are miracles of recovery. And a lot of that is due to my wife.

00;22;23;03 - 00;22;37;04
Paul Sullivan
You said that, you know, things would change if you retired. But of course, this is the chicken and the egg. You can't really retire until you earn and save enough money to be able to retire. Is that fair? That that's a sort of.

00;22;37;04 - 00;22;58;11
Sean Keenan
Well, it's kind of off the table. I mean, I was fortunate enough to, you know, to be able to study economics at a, at a good school and have a good career. And, you know, I've, I've earned a lot of money. I've. If it weren't for this, probably I'd be able to retire comfortably now, but that's just water under the bridge.

00;22;58;11 - 00;23;21;19
Sean Keenan
That's just gone. So I'm okay with that. I mean, I will retire and my wife and I will retire, like middle class people do, you know, we'll we'll downsize and and, that'll be the that's just the result of this. But, I do not believe that the court will accept, any significant reduction in alimony because I retire.

00;23;21;19 - 00;23;50;14
Sean Keenan
I mean, when I lost my job at, at AIG, I when I was at AIG for a while, and it was a very, it was a very good job, and I was compensated well at that job. And I, I left there at a tough time. And so I had to take a job that had significantly lower income, and the judge increased her proportion of my income and, and said, I believe your bonus.

00;23;50;14 - 00;24;07;21
Sean Keenan
You've always had these bonuses and I believe they're going to continue. I said, well, I got a different job. It's a smaller job at a smaller company. There's no way I'm going to get a bonus like that, she said, I don't believe you. It's my decision. So I'm raising her proportion of your income. And that year I got a much, much smaller bonus.

00;24;07;21 - 00;24;31;10
Sean Keenan
And we were broke. It all goes to alimony. Not only alimony, but I was playing child support. I was forced to pay child support after the children had been removed from her home. Penalty. That. But even under the court orders, there was a division of expenses requirement that she never complied with. So she owes us thousands and thousands of dollars for basic expenses.

00;24;31;10 - 00;24;46;03
Sean Keenan
The court never intended to force her to comply. The court always said whatever she does is okay, just contempt of the court orders. They smiled at her and told her it was okay.

00;24;46;06 - 00;25;04;00
Paul Sullivan
Sean, you know the people are listen to this. You know a lot of bad company that, you know, if they're on the precipice, something like this. Do you have any advice that you would give them or anything that you think of, like from your experience? Like, is there something that they could learn from, from what you've been through?

00;25;04;02 - 00;25;34;10
Sean Keenan
I think I give two pieces of advice. One is seriously, consider representing yourself. The attorneys fees will be astronomical, and the marginal benefit of having the attorney is not worth it. If you if you know some attorneys or you can do some ChatGPT and inform yourself, you could probably do almost as well and you'd save, you know, you could lose all of your life savings easily in a, in a contested divorce case.

00;25;34;10 - 00;26;09;04
Sean Keenan
So that's my first piece of advice. The second piece of advice is try to avoid having a gal involved in your case. Our efforts in 2014 did lead to a law which allows choice among gals by litigants. So if you're forced into a situation, contested custody situation and a gal will be involved by court order. You need to review that those gals backgrounds, the way you would review, a doctor that you're going to for major surgery.

00;26;09;10 - 00;26;23;24
Sean Keenan
You need to know what they've done. I mean, it's worse because in this case, it's like going to a hospital to see a surgeon where you don't know what's wrong with you. He's just like. Like I'm going to put you out. And once you're out, I might take out your liver. I might take out your spleen. I'll transplant the lung.

00;26;23;24 - 00;26;42;23
Sean Keenan
That's all up to me. You'd want to know that that was a good surgeon, right? But that's that's what happens once the girl's involved. You don't know what they're going to do, and you can't stop them. So you research the girl carefully, and if you don't like what you see, better object.

00;26;42;26 - 00;26;48;12
Paul Sullivan
Right? How are your kids doing now?

00;26;48;15 - 00;27;17;19
Sean Keenan
They, They're up and down. I mean, actually, they have been, amazing. They've had, great transition from middle school to high school. But like you said, this has been ongoing. We wanted to bring them to a wedding in Italy last summer, and there was a court order which the mother completely admittedly like it was in the transcript.

00;27;17;21 - 00;27;45;29
Sean Keenan
She said out of spite, she refused to sign the form for the children to get passports. And because we don't have full custody, if she doesn't sign form the Cara passports. So I paid lawyers to try to try to get them the passports. The lawyers took the money. They didn't get the passports. Finally, we had to file a specific motion in court, asking the judge to instruct her to sign the forms.

00;27;46;01 - 00;28;11;17
Sean Keenan
We got the motion. We succeeded. She just was in contempt of the motion. Just wouldn't sign the forms. So it came down to the actual. The 11th hour. We had to do expedited processing. We had to drag her back into court. It was that we almost didn't go there. Actually, the day before we were supposed to leave, we got the passports and we incurred an enormous amount of expense trying to get this done in going to the court.

00;28;11;24 - 00;28;28;11
Sean Keenan
And we told the judge, we want to be compensated for this. She's in contempt of the original motion. Judge said, you're not entitled any compensation, but she does have some forms. So that was that was like, you know, it's just trauma after trauma after trauma. So we just can't relax as a family because we're never out of it.

00;28;28;13 - 00;28;47;07
Sean Keenan
Because of the lifetime alimony. We're never free from family court. And the other side is causing mischief all the time. File motions against me for whatever. And then you have to go to court. I've been to court hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times.

00;28;47;09 - 00;28;52;20
Paul Sullivan
Does it get better when your kids turn 18? Does that give you a limit?

00;28;52;25 - 00;29;01;24
Sean Keenan
It'll limit the issues that can be used to file motions, but it doesn't solve the problem. I mean, I'm in family court for life.

00;29;01;26 - 00;29;17;22
Paul Sullivan
And this is, you know, I'm not advocating anybody, you know, to lift them up. But if you moved to New York and they didn't live in Connecticut anymore, move across the line. If you retired to the Carolinas or something like that, does that change, anything for you? Well.

00;29;17;25 - 00;29;39;23
Sean Keenan
Yes and no. I mean, certainly we could move to another country. And I've been advised to do that. Attorneys have advised me to move to another country. But, in, in, in coming part of a community of people who, have had problems with the family court. You know, the indication is that it really depends on what state you move to.

00;29;39;27 - 00;30;14;04
Sean Keenan
I mean, you don't escape the jurisdiction. But, you know, the likelihood that you'd be arrested for some trivial motion in family court coming from a Connecticut family court, in states that, you know, don't want to use their, their tax dollars to support that activity that's lower in other states. You know, you just be thrown in jail in that state and then extradited.

00;30;14;07 - 00;30;36;00
Paul Sullivan
Sean Keenan, thank you for being my guest today. And the company has my podcast. One final question. And and I think about this, you know, as you need support through this. You've talked about your wife and this, but it had been going on for so long. You know, have there been and it's such an extreme story, as you said, it's it's almost unbelievable.

00;30;36;06 - 00;30;53;26
Paul Sullivan
But it's it's happened to you. What support have you received from, you know, friends and colleagues or relatives? And have you received support for them to help kind of keep it going and keep you focused? And the best possible outcome from a bad situation?

00;30;53;29 - 00;31;17;20
Sean Keenan
Well, I have a few close friends, but, sadly, I'd have to report the opposite. Is it? This kind of traumatic experience is extremely isolating, and it transmits to family and friends. And if it doesn't stop after years, you find, those relationships are harder and harder to maintain. So, I mean, that's one of the challenges that it is.

00;31;17;22 - 00;31;42;24
Sean Keenan
It's, it's it's hard for people to believe, it's toxic and it, and and I think the, I think the players in the family court know this. It's part of the intention is that, isolating the victims is, is part of the strategy for, continuing their operation, which is a moneymaking operation. So it's been very, very difficult without my wife.

00;31;42;26 - 00;31;50;08
Sean Keenan
Would not have survived. And I'm. I'm pretty sure that I'd be, like, in a nuthouse.

00;31;50;10 - 00;31;55;27
Paul Sullivan
Sean Keenan, thank you again for sharing your story. With the company. Dad.

00;31;55;29 - 00;32;14;17
Sean Keenan
Thanks for having me. And thanks for thanks for what you do. Because, I really, I think that, celebrating fatherhood is, is a wonderful thing. And, and I really appreciate your efforts to, to do that and and to keep, fathers, working together and understanding each other. So thank you.

00;32;14;20 - 00;32;42;00
Paul Sullivan
Thank you. Sean. Thank you for listening to the Company Dads podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do. The company of dads, possible. Helder, Mira, who is our audio producer Lindsay Decker, handles all of our social media. Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition. Emily Servin, who is our web maestro, and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me.

00;32;42;00 - 00;32;59;18
Paul Sullivan
And many of the things that we do here at the Company of Dads. It's a great team. And we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop for everything is our newsletter, the dad. Sign up at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad. Thank you again for listening.