The Company of Dads Podcast

EP10: Stepping Up For Your Family Doesn’t Mean Stepping Back From Work

• Paul Sullivan • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Interview with Nikola Gasic / Newly minted C.F.A. Charterholder, Parent and Lead Dad

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Nikola Gasic believed his employer when it offered him paternity leave when his son was born: take it, someone else will cover for you, your job will be here when you return. He took paternity leave to spend time with his son but he also took it because his wife’s job was more entrepreneurial than his: if she was out for six months it would be a set back to her career. As an investment manager, he could step back into his role and rely on teammates to keep things going. And in between juggling Lead Dad responsibilities, he decided to complete the hardest professional exam in finance. So when he returns to work, he’ll do so as a C.F.A. charterholder. Listen in to hear more serious Lead Dad balancing.


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I'm Paul Sullivan, your host of the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about their parenting world. I know this from firsthand experience as a dad to my three girls, three dogs, three cats, and somewhat remarkably, three fish. I did this all while managing my career and striving to be an above average husband. One thing I know for sure about being the dad is it's not a normal role you're not doing with dads of traditionally done going to work and leaving the parenting to mom or someone else. Nor are you always welcome into the world where moms are the primary caregivers. But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and focus on what really matters family, friendship, finance, and fun. Today my guest is Nick Gasic. I reached out to him after seeing a post on LinkedIn. After he passed the CFA. Probably the hardest credential to pass in all of finance stands for Chartered Financial Analyst, and it's a three part test. I read it higher than any MBA degree somebody could get. But what struck me was the photo. There was Nick and his eight month old son, Adrian, in one of the baby boards standing on the shore, and another photo of a little hand reaching for Nick's super sophisticated calculator that everybody who sat for the CFA knows that they need. The post came from his wife, who credited him for being the primary caregiver for our son while I focus on my business and career. That's some serious need that balancing. So I wanted to bring Nick on today for two things one. To welcome him to being a the dad, but two. I also want him to remember or help us all remember what it was like to be a dad early on when our kids were young. Welcome, Nick, to the Company of Dads podcast. How are you today? Hey, Paul. Great. Really excited to be here. Good. So let's start off. I mentioned the CFA. What was the hardest part? Tell me, what was the hardest part of passing the CFA? The hardest part of the CFA is just. It becomes all consuming. Every last second of free time that you have, you're either reviewing cue cards, you're doing practice questions, or you're or you're reading new content. There's just so much material to cover that it takes you a full year of full time work just to get through it. And then trying to remember what you read eight months earlier. You know, I really like one of the things that I find being difficult, being a dad, being the dad is, you know, if I'm just focused on being with my kids, it's awesome. If I'm just focused on being and doing work, I've got that covered. But sometimes it's the bouncing, you know, back and forth between the two worlds that, I personally, I can find, you know, I'm on my bad days. It's challenging, am I good days? I, I can handle. How was that for you with, you know, a newborn who's eight and a half months old now, a newborn. Through these first eight months, while you. Were you know, as you said, trying to study every week and waking moment and remember it all. Yeah. You know, one thing that we kept on hearing with newborns is you think you have a routine, and pretty soon you're going to realize you don't have a routine and everything's going to change up on you. And I think that's what it was like trying to, work and study and have a newborn, you know, at one point, he was sleeping great when he was really young and sleepy. So I'd wake up at 4 a.m., study for three hours before 7 a.m. before waking up, and then I'd get on with my day and do the parenting thing. And then all of a sudden, the routine changed, and we just had to figure out how to make it work. And, you know, the 4 a.m. to 7 a.m. slot time slot wasn't a good one anymore. But then, you know, we changed it to nighttime studying or during the middle of the day when he's sleeping. So you just gotta adapt. Yeah, but you were also working throughout all this time, correct? Through a through a portion of it. When my wife, gave birth, she was initially off for a short while while I was still working, and then I, I went on parental leave and took over those responsibilities. Yep. And right now, are you back working or are you full time? No, no. So, I'm still, the full time dad. We. So in Canada, we have pretty, pretty strong, parental leave laws, which are super helpful, I think. I don't know the exact the exact time, but it's it's about 16 months that a father can take off, and their position in the workforce is legally protected. But again, you know, it's the legal these versus the career you choose to pursue are very different things. Yeah. I mean, that's remarkable. I mean, you know, sitting here in Connecticut in the United States, 16 months is it's wonderful. I mean, you know, the the first year, like all the stuff that you learn with, with a child, that's that's great. No, it's it's been magical. Talk about the decision. How did you. You know, I know we talked sort of off air about, you know, this this is what it is now, which is, I think, how it is for, you know, a lot of parents, just as you know, your son's schedule changed, you know, life changed. But right now, how did you and your wife made the decision that you would be the one to take more of the, extended parental leave, and she would take a shorter maternity leave and go back to work. Yeah. For sure. So, I mean, I'll start off as saying we both have great employers that were super supportive over with this for us. You know, it's not just the what what the what the law says you're entitled to receive, but, having a really supportive employer is very important. My wife, she her rule, her job. It's quite entrepreneurial. She she's in finance as well. She's a portfolio manager, but she does personal wealth management. So she deals with high net worth individuals. And she's spent many years building a business, through her network. And, and and it's a very entrepreneurial pursuit. Mine, on the other hand, I'm also a portfolio manager in finance. I manage a large bond portfolio for an institutional, client. But mine's not as entrepreneurial. I there's people who can back me up. There's my my rules can be split among other members of the team. So when we looked at, you know, I can leave my job for a short period of time and go back to it. And nothing really would have changed for me. But when you're running your own business like she is, you can't just leave. It doesn't matter what the what what you're entitled to in terms of legal, protections for parental leaves, you can lose clients. You lose touch with the relationships that you have. It just wasn't practical for her to be away for a year or 18 months or longer and not have a big impact on her career. Did you talk about this before? Your son was born, or was it just something that made sense, you know, after he arrived? Yeah. No, we definitely spent a long time talking about it. And before, before we. But when we were trying to figure out if we were even going to have kids and, you know, or at the time, we probably didn't even talk about me going off those conversations, just started talking about how is she going to handle her business. What's she going to do to strike the right balance between parenting and work and not have it impact her, her business? And, you know, it took a surprisingly long amount of time for us to put our heads together and say, hey, how about how about Nick, take some time off? That that wasn't even a thought that really crossed our mind until well into this brainstorming. So it's actually, it's pretty funny in hindsight that it took us so long to get to that point. Yeah. When you talk to some of your, your, your friends who may be your, you know, lifelong friends, work friends or new dad friends, what's their reaction been to you, you know, taking on this role, at least for now? Yeah. You know, like everyone we've talked to has been really supportive. You know, we're still younger. Like a lot of our friends don't have kids yet, so they don't really understand what that process is like. But, I I'll just say I was very hesitant to, to announce this, even when I had made this decision that I would be taking time off. And I had told my bosses and they were all very, very supportive. Personally, I still felt really hesitant to, you know, contact my entire professional network. I deal with a lot of finance people, a lot of bankers, which is an industry like, you know, Wall Street's a pretty, Yeah, it has its it has its traditions and it has this certain ways that you're expected to act when you're dealing with investment bankers. And, you know, it's not it wasn't always the most progressive industry. And I was hesitant to to make that announcement to my broader professional network. But when I did, I was actually really surprised at all the phone calls I got from, you know, long time. Investment bankers who said, you know, that's an amazing opportunity. It's so cool that you get to do this. Enjoy every minute of it passes by in a flash. So, so it's funny, everyone I talk to is super supportive. And the biggest. It was pretty much in my head, you know, that having that, reluctance to tell people. Yeah. Yeah. And now I can agree with you completely because, you know, one of the reasons why I started the company days was to sort of name it to, to name, you know, the role of being a lead dad. And in doing that to help create a community for dads, but also hopefully, to help different companies see that this is a good thing, like for your workforce, you want to have, you know, moms and dads sharing that responsibility. I mean, there's been all these stats take it down here in the States about the second shift for moms. The moms come home from work and they still have to keep going. And they can you get more of the dads out there? Sort of pulling their own weight. Let me ask you this. So now that you're doing it, you know, I, I've long joked that, you know, here in the States, there's there's no lonelier person than the dad on a playground filled with moms. How have you found it? You know, sort of out in the wild when you and Adrian go out and talked about that really cute photo of the two of you, you know, down by the water. But how have you found other the dads that you can talk to where you live? Or are the moms, or the caregivers in the parks, or are they, accepting? I mean, is it slightly different there than it is here? Yeah, that's a that's a good question. I mean, I think I'd have to say that things are probably a little different right now because we have been living through this pandemic and people have been a little bit more guarded in general. You know, being around strangers, like, I'm certainly not going to, but, you know, to people's homes that I meet at the playground and having playdates, it's certainly not that level of, networking with, with these other parents. People are polite, but I think it's still weird when, when a group of moms is huddled around and then they see, you know, a guy carrying a baby, it's. You don't feel, you know, you don't feel super welcome to join the circle and chat. Yeah. That that being said, people are very, welcoming and a lot of people still want to stop and just talk about the baby or talk about the dog. That's with us as well. So it's been it's been good. It's been I mean, that's a win win if you've got a cute baby and a cute dog, people are going to talk to you about it. Yeah, yeah, we've got those bases covered. Yeah. What would you. When you think about this and, you know, however long you do it, you know, what have you learned so far? What have you learned from, you know, taking on this role, as a dad, know, in a world where it's not, you know, done that often or often enough. What have you learned that you didn't expect before you you signed up to be the primary caregiver? What's been the most surprising thing for you? Well, the media thing I've learned and I've I guess I was just, you know, I did I do view this as a job as well is how much different it is than my office job. Like, I have a, I have a, you know, by all accounts a very stressful office job, which you don't you don't have people screaming at you at the office the way, the way you sound screaming. So no screaming yet. But there's also very few breaks. I don't get the opportunity to, you know, put my feet up, kick back and read the news, or just take a, you know, ten minute break. For myself, it's it's the days are long and they're hard and they're unpredictable. And you're on your feet all day and the second I, you know, put them down to take a nap, I realized I got to start doing food prep because he's going to be waking up in an hour. And I don't want to be juggling him and trying to make food for for lunch. Right. So it's it is it's a different type of hard, but it is definitely hard. Yeah. I, I still don't believe you that you don't need never have people at your office who threw a temper tantrum. Just down at certain points in my career, I think, to throw yourself on the floor first of on the floor and just start rolling around. You'll have that when you go back to work. You'll have that, in your in your toolkit. That's a great point. When you think like, you know, it's that, you know, we joke in my house that the days are long and the night too short. So when you said, you know, the long days, I can definitely, you know, identify with that. But when you turn it around on a, on a positive note, when you have those months, I'm sure there are moments where you, like, you probably miss work a little better. You you hear from somebody from work. But when you look at, you know, the things that you're getting from being with Adrian, things you're getting from being your son that you didn't, expect that you would get or that you're getting that you never would have gotten from from work. What are some of those things that that stand out? Yeah, it's I think the biggest thing is just this bonding. When he was very, very young, I certainly didn't have that same connection to him as I, as I do now. Look at now I can I know how to make him laugh just by doing a funny face and that type of bond. I just feel like that's not something I could have had if I, if I was, you know, working until 6 p.m., coming home, seeing him for 45 minutes before bedtime. And those are our only interactions Monday to Friday. The hours that we log together are, It's just huge getting to know him and just having this relationship with him. Yeah, yeah. If you could think of one thing to sort of, you know, that you've learned so far, that would help you be a better, you know, lead that. What would that one thing be? Would it be, you know, support, family, dad, support for the community, just longer days and more and more time. But what what would you like? You know what I think, if anything, you know how you get on those parenting books and what to expect when you're expecting, etc.? I wish I had actually done. I had kept up to my wife and had done more reading on what to expect during the first year, before he was born, because now I'm reading this book and says, you know what to expect every month. And you know, he's turning nine months old and I'm going to read the nine month chapter, and just trying to squeeze that reading and to know what to expect. I wish I had done that in advance. Just getting getting as much prepared in advance as you can. That means reading the books, if that means getting the nursery ready or, you know, picking out the diaper pail, just try and front load all the work as much as possible. Probably about, I don't know, five, six years ago, we moved into, a different house. You know, we had more kids who bought a bigger house. And I remember moving all of our books and I was pulling out the books on parenting and being a dad, and I, and I probably pulled out, I don't know, 40 books, and I don't know if I'd read one of them. And and I wrote books. I've written two books I don't think I had read one of and some of them I'd start and I was like, and I'm just putting them up. And so I know exactly where sort of the parenting corner is for advice in my house. But, I've yet to read them. Maybe this. Yeah. That thing, I don't know. Can I like not asking for directions when we're driving? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. This has been great. Nick. Thank you for your time. I gotta just commend you again for, passing the CFA while, doing this. I think, you know, I think Adriana, did you get some credit for this? I think clearly that kid, you know. Yeah. I think if I hadn't passed, I probably would have been reluctant to try and do it again. If you hadn't passed, you would have had the best excuse ever. I mean, come on. I always like, you know, to wrap these up by giving my guests the last word. So if you can think of, you know, I'll give you the final thought. But, you know, what's it? You know, talk about what it's meant to. To be a dad and what, you know, you think would be needed to create a bigger community for for dads who are doing this, you know, like it? The whole experience has truly been, it's it is life changing. It really. It's magical. I don't know how to describe it. It's just it's just been a fantastic experience. Zero regrets on, deciding to go down this route. I think the biggest thing you can do to help, make this more, more established. Like I said earlier, Canada has very good laws, very strong laws to, to encourage this sort of thing. But for me, that wasn't the bottleneck. It wasn't 100% guaranteed that I'm gonna have a job. Back when I returned, it was my own reluctance to to go down this path, given my career, given given my profession. I think any dad that is considering doing this, will be surprised at how supportive other people are with this decision. I think just getting that, getting over that reluctance to tell, you know, other coworkers, other professionals, whatever you do for a living, there's going to be a lot more support than you think in your network to go ahead and do this. That's great. Nick, thank you again for being my guest on the Company of Dads podcast. I really enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks so much for.