EP87: How To Raise A Child Who Becomes An Independent Adult

Interview with the Authors of Raising A Kid Who Can

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

A psychiatrist, a psychologist and a child therapist all walk into a parenting group, and... it's a good set-up for a joke, but it's the feeling you might get listening to Catherine McCarthy, Heather Tedesco and Jennifer Weaver, three experts and friends, who wrote a book about creating independent kids - and less cloying, worrying and meddling parents. They're as wise as they are funny. Listen in. 

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Transcript

00;00;05;23 - 00;00;26;07
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, silly, strange and sublime aspects of being a dad in a world where men with a go to parent aren't always accepted at work, among their friends, or in the community for what they're doing. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Our podcast is just one of the many things we produce each week at the Company of Dads.

00;00;26;09 - 00;00;53;05
Paul Sullivan
We have various features, including the lead dad of the week. We have our community both online and some in-person events. We have a new resource library for all fathers. The one stop shop for all of this is our newsletter, The Dad So sign up today at the company dad.com backslash the dad. Today I welcome, triumvirate of top thinkers on kids and parents Catherine McCarthy, Heather Tedesco, and Jennifer Weaver.

00;00;53;07 - 00;01;18;07
Paul Sullivan
Catherine is a psychiatrist focused on stress, anxiety and the developing brain. Heather is a psychologist, so a PhD, as opposed to an MD who works with parents to make their lives less stressful and also to help their children thrive. And Jennifer has been ranked one of the best child therapist in the Washington, D.C. area for years. And we're here today to talk about their very new book, Raising a Kid Who Can't.

00;01;18;09 - 00;01;27;16
Paul Sullivan
Simple Science Based Strategies to Build a Lifetime of Emotional Strength. Welcome, Catherine, Heather, and Jennifer to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;27;18 - 00;01;28;29
Catherine McCarthy
Thank you. Thank you folks.

00;01;29;01 - 00;01;41;09
Paul Sullivan
All right, I can't resist. I like low hanging fruit. I mean, is there a good joke you tell about how you came together? You know, a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a therapist all walk into a bar.

00;01;41;11 - 00;01;59;18
Catherine McCarthy
That's what I wanted to talk. To have. Is the title the book. I mean, really precisely that. But nobody really responded to that email. That was that was that was a shame. I think shrink wrap was another one that nobody responded to. And bottom line is we've been friends for years. And Jennifer, you want to add to that?

00;01;59;21 - 00;02;16;18
Heather Tedesco
Yeah, just that we also have joked that actually the scary thing about our book is as if the three of us, you were trapped with the three of us in an elevator for an hour or two, and then we told you all the things we are obsessed with. So that's actually our book. The three of us in an elevator for two hours.

00;02;16;21 - 00;02;40;07
Paul Sullivan
I am a great proponent, and, and I appreciate therapy, but that sounds terrifying. Going to be honest, that sounds lovely. Terrified. You said you've been, you know, friends, for a long time, but you obviously very accomplished, in your own field. One thing we know that unfortunately, about a lot of, medicine is there's not always a lot of, overlap, but you found a way to to to work together.

00;02;40;07 - 00;02;49;25
Paul Sullivan
So what was the genesis, of this book? How did it how did it come about? And how did you three decide to to come together and write it?

00;02;49;27 - 00;03;08;09
Catherine McCarthy
Well, we've been thinking and talking about this book separately and together for many years, and it was in response, largely to questions we would get from the parents and the families that we worked with, which is they would say, there are so many great books out there. I bought a whole bunch of them, but I haven't really read them.

00;03;08;10 - 00;03;35;11
Catherine McCarthy
It's, you know, it's a lot, isn't there? Just the cliff notes to parenting, you know, how do I know what to do? And so when the pandemic hit and the three of us were like every other human floundering and trying to figure it out, we took that as our impetus to get together. And we sat around, you know, many, many hours, and just talked and brainstormed and tried to figure out how we could provide this resource that we thought parents would benefit from.

00;03;35;18 - 00;03;44;25
Catherine McCarthy
At a point in time when we thought they most, most needed the help. Took a little longer than the pandemic to, write the book and get it out there. But.

00;03;44;28 - 00;04;07;13
Paul Sullivan
You know, I feel like I can confess, everything with the three of you. You won't judge me. You're used to this, but, you know, it's many years ago, before our third child was born, we bought a new house, and we moved. And I had am a super organized guy, and I had this entire box of parenting books, you know, from what to expect when you're expecting to, like, you know, dad bought it everything.

00;04;07;13 - 00;04;26;24
Paul Sullivan
And I stack them so neatly in the library, in our house. And then I felt awful because so few of the spines, had actually been cracked. And I've just go and I buy it, and I read the back like, this is fantastic. I'm going to learn everything. What? How did you set your book up so that the spine will get cracked?

00;04;26;24 - 00;04;36;17
Paul Sullivan
Or if you when somebody buys this, you know, what do you say to them? Like you need to crack the spine, because here is what you're going, going to learn from from our book.

00;04;36;19 - 00;04;52;24
Heather Tedesco
So we set it up almost like a Rick Steves travel guide. That was a he was our muse. So you can go to Istanbul for a day, or you can go stay a whole week if you want, because we know that most parents don't actually want to read a book from beginning to end. Not all parents, but lots of parents don't.

00;04;52;26 - 00;05;12;06
Heather Tedesco
And, this way you can dip in and out super swimmable. And then we have all these illustrations in it too. And part of the deal of those is to help you remember some of our tips and tricks. Illustrations are to sort of jog the memory, but also, frankly, they're also to help the brain relax and recognize that, like, it doesn't have to be that serious.

00;05;12;06 - 00;05;15;10
Heather Tedesco
These are ideas. They're not requirements.

00;05;15;13 - 00;05;22;08
Paul Sullivan
I don't know, Jennifer. It just means like, I could have, like being a temper tantrum, world for a day. Or I could stay for a whole week.

00;05;22;13 - 00;05;23;27
Heather Tedesco
That's exactly right. Your choice.

00;05;24;02 - 00;05;32;14
Paul Sullivan
Very appealing. Very, very appealing. You know, captain three to captain throw. Throw something else here that that may and that be in that book besides temper tantrum world.

00;05;32;16 - 00;05;55;15
Catherine McCarthy
Well, we we we give you what we call the top ten essentials. And it's what we see is these if you again, like stuck in the elevator, but you could be in my office and it would be a lot more comfortable. But, what are the most important things to not. And I think you can forgive me for saying this for not totally screwing things up as a parent, at the same time having humor and self-compassion along the way.

00;05;55;17 - 00;06;12;04
Catherine McCarthy
So we highlight not just behavioral issues like attention, self-control, but how in this world where there is so much anxiety and so much reason to be fearful as a parent, how to be able to parent without always through the lens and fear at the same time, protecting your child.

00;06;12;07 - 00;06;36;04
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You know, it's interesting when our, my kids are, 14, 11 and six and when, when the 14 year old, we're looking for a school, for an independent school, you know, whatever that would have been 11 years ago. We went in and this one school really, and process and their pitch from the head of school was, we will help, you create a 30 year old that you'd like to sit next to on the train.

00;06;36;07 - 00;06;51;17
Paul Sullivan
And, you know, I live outside New York City. So you're on the train a lot. The tons of horrendous human beings on the train with you. And so you think that really, you know, registers with you like, you don't want to be the guy who's mansplaining and spreading out. You don't want to be the guy who's had 14 drinks and is somehow going to get himself home for the train.

00;06;51;17 - 00;07;08;16
Paul Sullivan
You don't want to be the guy who's yakking on the phone. You want to, you know? And that was really compelling. They didn't say, you know, we're going to get your kid into Harvard where it. And so we're turning in Division one, you know, lacrosse player and that in these for, for my, my, my wife and me that really, you know registered with us.

00;07;08;16 - 00;07;30;17
Paul Sullivan
But, you know, we had another author, on the podcast, a couple of weeks ago, just wrote a book called Never Enough. It's all about achievement, you know, culture. And in some of the communities where I live, surely where were you are? And in Northern Virginia, there's a tremendous amount of of pressure. And the parents me how did how does this book, help?

00;07;30;20 - 00;07;47;06
Paul Sullivan
Sort of. I just believe that anxiety and create something, I won't say normal because I don't know what that mean, but more like a more balanced childhood where all the pressure isn't on the outcome, whatever it may be that the it's the shooter on the on the journey, as it were.

00;07;47;09 - 00;08;02;13
Catherine McCarthy
Well, I love I love that about the 30 year old because we look at it is like playing the long game, one of the other titles or thinking about as likely as a playbook like look at the bigger picture and even though we can all say, just like, you know, it says you can play a long game, be thinking about that 30 year old.

00;08;02;19 - 00;08;23;18
Catherine McCarthy
But at the same time, the world is telling you, you know, college matters. Are it, you know, are you going to get on this team or are you going to get this grade? So having a very, you know, human, understanding of the you can be getting all this information, especially now with the world's going. So fast and so much fear based thinking and that and now there's even like I think it was Minnesota.

00;08;23;22 - 00;08;43;11
Catherine McCarthy
It's a big survey that came out in the past year. We're still in high schoolers across the state that the main stress is people, no matter where they're coming from, worrying about college. So how is the world where there is at every moment where you can look on your phone and feel bad about yourself? How do you, as humans, look at really what is the bigger picture?

00;08;43;11 - 00;08;48;11
Catherine McCarthy
And at the same time, you know, highlight that no matter what we believe, you can manage it.

00;08;48;13 - 00;08;51;07
Paul Sullivan
And but what's the answer? How do we look at that?

00;08;51;14 - 00;09;14;29
Catherine McCarthy
Yes, absolutely. I, I work only with parents and so I've, I've had this conversation quite a bit, to be honest with you too. Heather I love it. It's it's a gift, to be able to talk to parents. We one of the things that we often have to say is that we're in a culture that sort of sets more, it's more and we're also in a culture that really does have that achievement focus.

00;09;14;29 - 00;09;39;25
Catherine McCarthy
And I think each of us as parents needs to do a little internal prioritization. And so part of how we hope this book will help parents is to show them exactly what is that long term, big picture human qualities that tend to lead us being adaptable, being psychologically comfortable in our skins, feeling good, having good relationships with others.

00;09;39;27 - 00;09;58;13
Catherine McCarthy
All of the things that we know parents want for their kids because we often ask them that. I used to ask every client I had, how would you like to describe your child to me when they're 30 years old? And very similar idea. And, never did they say I want them to be the, you know, the most cut throat, most decorated Nobel laureate.

00;09;58;13 - 00;10;24;12
Catherine McCarthy
They said, I want them to be happy. I want them to to have a fulfilling life. But when we're in this, you know, kind of parenting, it's a verb active stage. It's so difficult to be able to look that much farther ahead. And it's frankly, you know, it's sometimes a matter of conflicting priorities where we might both want our kid to succeed and achieve at the very top.

00;10;24;14 - 00;10;46;16
Catherine McCarthy
And we want them to be grounded and healthy and balanced. And, sometimes we have to make this hard choices. And and it might be does it mean that we want to do X activity, even if it's going to put all of this other downward pressure on the rest of our lives, you know, different answers for different families, but it's worth considering.

00;10;46;19 - 00;10;57;10
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. I'm also pretty sure that that that the parents who are the most cutthroat people out there have their kid running wind sprints. Not and they're not sitting and they're yelling at him so that sitting in your office doing that, I know.

00;10;57;10 - 00;11;02;01
Catherine McCarthy
I've had some real skeptical people, especially some real skeptical dads over the years.

00;11;02;04 - 00;11;18;26
Paul Sullivan
Well, that's actually one of them. You said in the book, like how you said you have people who, you know, I, I guess I put myself in the true believer category, like the long game is important, you know, therapy is beneficial. And then you have people who, at the other extreme, you know, instant gratification, therapies, bunch of nonsense.

00;11;18;28 - 00;11;46;03
Paul Sullivan
And of course, that makes it too simplistic. You have people all, all the way in between. How do you reach those people? I always say like, it's it's easy to reach the evangelist. Is it easy to reach the early adopters? They want this and they're going to be receptive. You know, Jennifer, I see I see you there, you know, how do you reach those people and bring in the people who are, you know, further along that spectrum toward, you know, skeptical, who probably would benefit the most from from this book?

00;11;46;05 - 00;12;06;26
Heather Tedesco
Well, that's a great question. We'd love to reach those people. I'll tell you who would really love, those people to be reached as their kids. So I see kids almost exclusively, and I hear from some of these kids, sometimes parents will, drop kids off in psychotherapy offices, and it's very hard for them to look at themselves, but they are really wanting to support their kids.

00;12;06;26 - 00;12;35;10
Heather Tedesco
They want their kids to, either achieve or feel well. And and so I think coming from the perspective of the child, sometimes children can be very direct with their parents about what they actually need. And sometimes I think, we serve as a little bit of a translator for that. The child saying, I'm struggling here, I'm needing this thing, the parents saying, I don't know what's wrong with them, but oh my gosh, you know, fix them.

00;12;35;13 - 00;12;45;25
Heather Tedesco
And then I think sometimes we can serve as a little bit of a bridge for that. And, and that can the parents want the best for their kids. They just don't always agree on sort of what the right path is there.

00;12;45;27 - 00;12;54;03
Paul Sullivan
I like that, Jennifer, because then, you know, when the parent shows up, just fix my kid. You can say, like, I'll talk to your kid. And then I have this friend, Heather, and I'm going to send you the parents.

00;12;54;03 - 00;12;55;07
Heather Tedesco
That's literally.

00;12;55;07 - 00;12;56;05
Catherine McCarthy
Loving you. You have.

00;12;56;05 - 00;13;00;15
Heather Tedesco
Understood our triangle.

00;13;00;18 - 00;13;01;26
Catherine McCarthy
And stuff. That's that's.

00;13;01;26 - 00;13;24;06
Heather Tedesco
Literally. And I will say often the first point of entry between the three of us is me. I'm the child therapist. And then, looking at psychiatric medical care with Catherine and looking for parent support with Heather. You've literally just described how we operate almost always, not only frequently. The point of entry is for me, especially with the skeptical parent.

00;13;24;08 - 00;13;40;29
Catherine McCarthy
I think so much that parents just if they knew the. Why? Because a lot of things can sound good. Like, you know, I want my kid to be able to understand why a lot of our advice and or essentials may seem paradoxical about tolerating anxiety in the world is going to make it feel really bad. So I got to learn to tolerate.

00;13;40;29 - 00;14;02;17
Catherine McCarthy
At the same time, you don't want to be doing those sprints, but but, but to understand and we keep it, you know, short and sweet. But just be the reasons why. If you do this, this will help. And it's meeting them where they are from their what we call that little bit of background in the science. But it's not too long, not too dry, just enough to keep the tension in to see, this makes more sense.

00;14;02;19 - 00;14;20;02
Heather Tedesco
And she, she makes such a good point too, because sometimes and Heather in particular is great at this around, that, knowing the data, knowing the statistics, skeptical parents, if you tell them, well, here's what the science shows. I don't know what to tell you about this validation thing. Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me, too.

00;14;20;02 - 00;14;24;17
Heather Tedesco
But man, the science is there. Like, what are you going to do?

00;14;24;19 - 00;14;39;25
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, I love it. Now, I, I, I live in this town. That's that's, you know, youth sports crazy. And fortunately, I say this process for sure. My kids, are all mediocre athletes. Just like me. And they're not an elite athlete like my, my wife was, because they get sucked into this. And you know what we're talking about anxiety.

00;14;39;25 - 00;14;55;24
Paul Sullivan
We're talking about academic pressure. But but sports is a whole different, you know, kettle and you see these kids thinking, well, they'll get a scholarship or they'll. Yeah. And I've been fortunate in a previous career. No, no a lot of pressure on, you know, athletes. And it's impossible. It's impossible. It's dumb luck. But they still they still hope for it.

00;14;55;26 - 00;15;14;10
Paul Sullivan
You know, you said this idea, you know, in the pandemic, everything changed. You start thinking about this. And of course, lots of good ideas. Came out of the an awful time in the pandemic, but, you know, that gave you I'm going to assume that gave you sort of the mental bandwidth to to think a little bit more expansively.

00;15;14;10 - 00;15;30;22
Paul Sullivan
And then you actually had to get down to it and write it. But I almost think it was a better period for you to write it, that these three years since the pandemic. And I may put this one to Catherine first, you know, coming as a psychiatrist and, you know, for listeners, you know, she's the one who can prescribe medicine if necessary.

00;15;30;22 - 00;15;56;12
Paul Sullivan
I also talk to people. I mean, have you seen, a fundamental change in, the anxiety levels or in the diagnoses of I have a child with ADHD and the diagnoses of certain challenges that, you know, may or may not require, you know, medicine and therefore may or may not require, you know, a more persuasive talk with, with parents to sort of explain what's going on with, with their children.

00;15;56;14 - 00;16;36;13
Catherine McCarthy
Well, multiple layers of that question from an anxiety and depression standpoint well before the pandemic and without totally back in the modern age. And, you know, social media, there has been a trend, especially in girls of increased, increased, mental health needs and diagnoses and legitimate, anxiety and sadness causing distress well before the pandemic and with the pandemic highlighting, you know, the, the, the acute crisis and what happens when humans are forced to do what humans evolutionarily or not adapted to do, which is be an isolation without connection and, always being in one place at once.

00;16;36;15 - 00;16;57;28
Catherine McCarthy
So it highlighted the need already there, and we felt the urgency and obligation we got to kind of help these families in crisis. But it's it hasn't just gone, oh, well, they won't need this book anymore because this continued even with the pandemic. And just your point, just even looking at ADHD, just the, you know, the there's more eyes on with it being at home, you're able to see your kid who can't pay attention.

00;16;57;28 - 00;17;41;05
Catherine McCarthy
So that's where diagnostically could be useful. Oh, it wasn't just school or the distraction in school, but the continued families in distress has persisted. And it's as even though we've seen lightning up in some things, it's continued. And it was there before. It was like the like, you know, just highlighting something that was already there. There was some, you know, from a like diagnostic standpoint, some things getting a little bit more unfit home because it wasn't the structure of school then before, but in the end that the information in the book transcends the pandemic was there before it just gave us gave us that urgency that we wanted to get get this out and and

00;17;41;07 - 00;18;01;12
Catherine McCarthy
sorry, I'll just say that, you know, we are big believers in trying to get something good from the challenges. And there's this paradox in human beings where we kind of and particularly a paradox for parents where we want for our kids the easiest possible path. We don't want them to suffer, to be in distress, to feel sad, all of the things.

00;18;01;12 - 00;18;30;09
Catherine McCarthy
And yet we also know that there's a requirements for growth and that our kids will be very poorly equipped for the rest of their lives. If we parents make things too smooth to protect it. Too easy. And we saw this pandemic throwing everything upside down, as a huge opportunity for parents and for for people to be able to become more adaptable and better equipped for the rest of their lives, whatever those are going to look like.

00;18;30;11 - 00;18;45;09
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, I want to follow up on that. How that, you know, a podcast is going to run after your podcast was one I did with, a Navy Seal, who in for 22 years and he has three children, and he talks about how he's trying to, you know, reconnect a your Navy Seal, you deployed and that's it.

00;18;45;09 - 00;18;59;18
Paul Sullivan
And they're the most elite of the elite. And he was telling me the story where his nine year old, has a dirt bike and, got a dirt bike stuck in the bushes. And the nine year old looked at him as like, you know, I'm not going to help you get that out. You got to figure it out.

00;18;59;18 - 00;19;22;07
Paul Sullivan
I said, would you help them? He's like, I got yeah, it's coming off the cliff. I would have grabbed it, you know, he knows I could just pick the dirt bike. Means, guys, these guys are monsters. There's a strong, And I was like, wow, okay, that kid is going to be, completely, self-sufficient. But, you know, most of us are not raised by, Navy Seals who've earned, you know, three Bronze stars and a Purple Heart and all this, you know, movement.

00;19;22;08 - 00;19;37;07
Paul Sullivan
And yet at the other extreme, you know, the joke is the used to be the helicopter parent. Now it's the snowplow. Parent. And then it brings it back to this book that came out ten plus years ago by a guy named James Caan. And it's called a sociologist, and he's a printer now, and it was called privilege.

00;19;37;10 - 00;19;57;22
Paul Sullivan
And it was all about why, we don't necessarily want other kids to do, poorly for our kids to do well. We just want our kids to do well. And if everybody else does well, that doesn't really matter. And it it's a fascinating book. As he unravels this, when you go to parent and say, you know, again, they have I think have to buy into the idea of of the long game.

00;19;57;24 - 00;20;13;09
Paul Sullivan
But if they're thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, he didn't change Marty I get it. But you know, it's only three more years before they go off to college. And you know, we've got to get this done. And that anxiety of anything may have ramped up because of the pandemic, because they're thinking the stakes are higher. You know, life is tough for the economy.

00;20;13;09 - 00;20;24;12
Paul Sullivan
Who knows what are like three things you could tell those parents to give them a more, expansive view. And after that, I'll I'll come to you for the the kid view on this.

00;20;24;14 - 00;20;53;00
Catherine McCarthy
Sure. So one thing that I always tell parents is, first of all, it's the parent's prerogative to decide what they want to do with their kids. And I feel like it's my job to help give them the information. And so I often will just sort of play two scenarios out. If you focus too much on the college at the end game and you know, what does that mean if your child doesn't get in, if your child gets in but doesn't like it there, etc., etc..

00;20;53;03 - 00;21;16;12
Catherine McCarthy
Versus again, you know, kind of bringing it back to what a parent's true deep goals and intentions are because parents all want the best for their kids. It's not that, you know, we parents, sometimes out of fear of not doing right by our kids, and that often takes us the wrong direction, because that fear based parenting keeps us really in fight or flight short term.

00;21;16;16 - 00;21;40;02
Catherine McCarthy
Let me just maximize today because I don't know what's coming. And so a big thing we really want to do with this book is to help parents see that's, you know, kind of of their kids of all ages, that these are human qualities in our ten essentials, that if you focus on them, for your kids and quite frankly, for yourself, that's our little, you know, ten essential.

00;21;40;04 - 00;21;46;11
Catherine McCarthy
Yeah. That it takes so much of that pressure off that leads us to be so fear based in the first place.

00;21;46;13 - 00;22;10;19
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And when you, you know, Jennifer, have the kids coming into your office and saying, you know, boy, you know, my parents are really focused on me going to their alma mater. And I don't I don't know if that's right for me or I want to do this. What? You know, what language can you give them to go back and talk to their parents in, in an effective way to communicate how they feel and what they want?

00;22;10;22 - 00;22;26;23
Heather Tedesco
Well, sometimes just putting everybody in the same room and having a conversation together can make a huge difference. But I'll tell you actually, a lot of times what we will also see is a whole group of kids where the parents are saying, hey, look, we don't care if you, you know, I went to Columbia, but you don't need to go to Columbia.

00;22;26;23 - 00;22;27;18
Heather Tedesco
It's really all right.

00;22;27;21 - 00;22;32;22
Paul Sullivan
And and you, you could go to Brown like your dumb ass. Don't worry about it. It's fine.

00;22;32;29 - 00;22;45;14
Heather Tedesco
Well, right. So two things happen. One is, Right, but they're wearing their Columbia sweatshirt all day long, so it's a little bit hard. It's a little bit of a mixed message. But honestly, I do think.

00;22;45;17 - 00;22;46;11
Catherine McCarthy
Many parents.

00;22;46;11 - 00;23;10;10
Heather Tedesco
Really don't recognize that's not necessarily required. The pressure on the kids for each other within the scope of their schools, within the pressure of each other, the status of these things, the fear that they have for themselves. And it it is hard for them to be able to see what we all can see in terms of the long game, the priorities.

00;23;10;10 - 00;23;26;12
Heather Tedesco
It's very hard for them to not see that. In fact, five clubs and four apps, you know. Sure. And the sad thing is it really could get you into Columbia. And three apps are going to lead you to Brown and, you know, or whatever. They're not wrong.

00;23;26;14 - 00;23;31;06
Paul Sullivan
But my godson is Brown is a fine school. I don't I don't want that to go.

00;23;31;09 - 00;23;32;08
Catherine McCarthy
Yeah, I know.

00;23;32;13 - 00;23;38;06
Heather Tedesco
I don't know why everybody does that to Brown.

00;23;38;09 - 00;23;38;26
Catherine McCarthy
Yeah.

00;23;38;28 - 00;24;03;05
Heather Tedesco
It's really rough on the kids. They don't know what it means. They don't know what it would mean to go to the community college for two years. And then they don't know that. In fact, probably they're going to be awesome and fine and that that's not going to make the difference. They don't have that perspective. And so sometimes it almost is educating the other direction.

00;24;03;07 - 00;24;26;05
Paul Sullivan
Yeah I'm sure all of you could, could sit here and, you know, entertain us, with a bunch of horrifying stories about what parents, do wrong. And while that would be wildly entertaining, because who does, like little schadenfreude? It's not really going to get us anywhere, you know, if you could. And we kind of this we try not to do this, but kind of go around the horn on this one and just things that stick out to you or things that are in the book that you really want to highlight.

00;24;26;05 - 00;24;46;26
Paul Sullivan
Like if we parents, you know, want to be our best, you know, what should we do? And by best, I mean, you know, good parents, you know, happy humans, and supportive, but not, you know, smothering parents. What are, you know, 2 to 3 things that that we should do. Catherine, I'll. I'll go to you first because you didn't speak in that last round.

00;24;47;03 - 00;25;07;08
Catherine McCarthy
Well, you you know, this isn't just because I'm like, feeling a little older today. But for those of us that, like, our kids, are grown ups, grown ups, theoretical grown ups, I mean, you really. I remember all these, like, you know, other parents saying, oh, it goes by so fast. And I remember being younger. It's been like, it's not going by fast at all, you know?

00;25;07;15 - 00;25;22;03
Catherine McCarthy
And, it's just like, there's no faster than it goes. And so you only get them for so long and not everybody's kids have to move to California to mean. But but, but that really, you know, you only get them for so long. And what are you going to be building when it comes to your relationship and connection.

00;25;22;06 - 00;25;45;14
Catherine McCarthy
So connection and your your future relationship, you know, has has a big piece in the world is so hard, you know, in so many ways with so much fear and always someone else. You know, going to this or getting this. But in the end, having, you know, home being a place where no matter what, you know, we got this place for you, you know, that we, we fully support you.

00;25;45;14 - 00;26;02;29
Catherine McCarthy
We believe you can do it. And that confident confidence comes from competence, just like that, you know, holding on, tipping over that, that that bike, you know, with the Navy Seal, that having competence that you can manage, being the, the and the bigger piece to instill when it comes to confidence in the future that. Yeah.

00;26;03;04 - 00;26;13;05
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. But that the captain tell the truth. You know in your bio you you went to Duke. So you did tell your kids they can do whatever, whatever they want, as long as they don't go to you and say.

00;26;13;08 - 00;26;23;26
Catherine McCarthy
Right, I'm on. I'm the I'm the lighter shade of blue, too. I went there too. You did? Yeah, I cover the I cover the entire, you know, said sickness. Yeah.

00;26;24;04 - 00;26;26;20
Paul Sullivan
And added level of.

00;26;26;23 - 00;26;40;12
Catherine McCarthy
Complexity, like, as a professional around here to find these things coming out of you. I remember going to a, like a back to school about college or high school and going in the back. So I was always late and it's like, oh my gosh, they're talking about I had to leave within a few minutes. I'm like, oh, I cannot watch this.

00;26;40;12 - 00;26;54;21
Catherine McCarthy
I'm just gonna have to get this later. Because the anxiety, the palpable anxiety, even as a psychiatrist, I know these things don't matter. I can dish this at all day long, but to feel it in the room like, oh my gosh, never took that class. Every day I just laughed. I just laughed so I can dish it out.

00;26;54;28 - 00;27;02;16
Catherine McCarthy
But it's hard as a parent, you know, it's hard. It's contagious. And I think looking in the mirror that way is important.

00;27;02;18 - 00;27;11;03
Paul Sullivan
And Heather, what about, you know, the things that the parents can, can do to, you know, as the question said, be their best selves.

00;27;11;05 - 00;27;32;12
Catherine McCarthy
I, I love to keep things really simple. And my answer to that is to do less and to enjoy more. I tell parents to talk to parents. It's kids are a stage of life ahead. And invariably the advice that you get from parents of 20 somethings and beyond is, my gosh, why did I get so worried about everything?

00;27;32;12 - 00;27;54;17
Catherine McCarthy
Why didn't I just enjoy it? And so, there are many reasons to do less, frankly, that are specific to things like anxiety, being interactive between parent and child and it getting in the way of kids motivation and independence if we swoop in. But there are also just like practical human reasons to do less so that we can enjoy more.

00;27;54;19 - 00;28;11;19
Paul Sullivan
And, I'm glad my 14 year old isn't listening to this because, you know, of course, when they were the first to the very close in age they're born, they had like, you know, Friday tennis lessons and, you know, all these activities. And now the six year olds, you goes to school, plays a sport at school, comes home, rests and like, why didn't you have to do tennis?

00;28;11;24 - 00;28;22;17
Paul Sullivan
Because we realized it was useless. Like. It's time consuming, time consuming, expensive. Jennifer, same question to you.

00;28;22;19 - 00;28;43;02
Heather Tedesco
Yeah. I like to remind parents that feelings are not to be fixed. I think a lot of kids, modern children, in our culture, actually do know a lot about how they feel, as opposed to maybe when we were growing up. They know a lot about feelings, but parents still, they'll say, oh, Johnny, I can see you're so upset.

00;28;43;02 - 00;29;05;23
Heather Tedesco
But then they want to fix it. They want to provide solutions. And it sends a weird message to kids that feelings are something that if it's uncomfortable, something's wrong. But in fact, if it's uncomfortable, that's also part of being human. And if parents can sit with uncomfortable feelings along with their kid and just sit in them next to them, that's such an awesome modeling of this can be tolerated.

00;29;05;26 - 00;29;26;21
Heather Tedesco
You could be completely humiliated from what happened at school today. You could be devastated that you didn't make the play. You can be furious that your friend left you out that way. And we can just sit there and just feel it and move along. To be able to feel and function well, anyway is what we really hope this book provides.

00;29;26;23 - 00;29;29;20
Heather Tedesco
That that's our goal is can kids feel and function well?

00;29;29;20 - 00;29;48;19
Paul Sullivan
Anyway, this has been, fantastic. Catherine, Heather and Jennifer, thank you so much for being my guest in the Company of Dad podcast. The book again is called Raising a Kid Who Can simple science based strategies to build a lifetime of Emotional Strength. Thank you all again.

00;29;48;21 - 00;29;51;16
Catherine McCarthy
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

00;29;51;19 - 00;30;16;28
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to the Company Dad podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do. The company that possible, Helder Mira, who is our audio producer Lindsay Decker hand is all of our social media. Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition, Emily Servin, who is our web maestro, and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me.

00;30;16;28 - 00;30;34;18
Paul Sullivan
And many of the things that we do here at the Company of Dad. It's a great team. And we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop for everything is our newsletter, the dad. Sign up at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad. Thank you again for listening.