EP128: All Siblings Fight. When Has It Gone Too Far?

Interview with Corinna Jenkins Tucker, Expert in Sibling Relationships

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Are sibling behaviors like pushing, intimidating just harmless rivalry? When does that rivalry go too far and become aggression? Should parents ignore the fighting? Should they step in and settle it for their kids? What are the best tactics to manage and diffuse the conflict as a parent? Listen as these and more get answered.

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Transcript

00;00;00;04 - 00;00;27;25
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Parents should, teach these skills when kids are younger, but as they age, let them, step out of it and let them manage the fight. So you can kind of listen to see if they need help, but don't go running to help them. You really want them to, have their own relationship where they can trust one another, they can work together, and that will carry them throughout their life.

00;00;27;25 - 00;00;40;23
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
I mean, this is you want them. This is one of the longest relationships that individuals will ever have across their lifespan.

00;00;40;26 - 00;01;04;15
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Comfort of Dad podcast. After 120 plus episodes, we're doing something different. I'm still your host, Paul Sullivan, and we're still focused on lead dads, working moms, and how small changes at home or work can have a big impact on their lives. What's new is each episode now promises to deliver actionable advice on some area of concern at home or at work.

00;01;04;17 - 00;01;33;00
Paul Sullivan
Short. Direct. Again. Actionable. Five questions. Five answers. This week, our guest is Corinna Jenkins Tucker. She's an expert in sibling rivalry and aggression. You know why your kids annoy, tease, and sometimes fight each other? She's the director of the Sibling Aggression and Abuse Research Center, an advocacy initiative at the University of New Hampshire. That's a mouthful that would cause siblings to wrestle.

00;01;33;01 - 00;01;43;23
Paul Sullivan
She's also a professor emerita in the university's Department of Human Development and Family Studies. Welcome, Karina, to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;43;25 - 00;01;46;21
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Thank you Paul. Thanks for having me. Really happy to be here.

00;01;46;23 - 00;02;09;03
Paul Sullivan
You know, I had some, you know, spend a little time at that year's Chicago and a little bit about advanced economics academics. So I know that we need to start with a definition. So question one is what is sibling rivalry? What is sibling rivalry from the perspective of someone like you? An expert in this?

00;02;09;05 - 00;02;45;08
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Well, each family has limited resources and siblings are natural competitors for their those resources. And those resources could be parents attention. Parents love, financial resources of the family. So they, will, you know, try to seek out ways to gain what they need, from their parents or from their families. So sometimes siblings will develop different qualities in order to gain unique access to whatever resource they're, they're searching for.

00;02;45;08 - 00;03;18;09
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
So you might have one child who's very good in sports, you might have another child who's very good in music, or you could have two children that play the same sport, but maybe play different positions in order to gain sort of that unique attention, unique, time with a parent. So rivalry can be, fueled by making comparisons, like, you know, of your children saying one's better than the other or labeling them these unique labels.

00;03;18;17 - 00;03;37;15
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Sometimes can, drive children to, to, make unique successes. And it can be a healthy thing. It doesn't always have to be a negative thing, but it also can lead to aggressive behavior, resentment, bitterness and jealousy.

00;03;37;18 - 00;03;48;05
Paul Sullivan
So I have three kids. You have three kids. Is it fair to say that you, as an expert on sibling rivalry, were able to ensure that your children never fought amongst themselves?

00;03;48;08 - 00;03;49;29
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
No, I, I.

00;03;50;02 - 00;03;52;05
Paul Sullivan
Professor, come on, a professor.

00;03;52;07 - 00;04;07;26
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
I actually see conflict as an opportunity to, when children are young, to teach them important social and emotional skills. So I would welcome this as a teaching opportunity for them.

00;04;07;29 - 00;04;37;24
Paul Sullivan
Spoken like a professor, mom. All right. Question to professor. Are sibling behaviors just like the pushing, the annoying. Like you're at the dinner table, you're picking on each other. Just annoying, annoying behaviors. Is that just harmless rivalry? Or when does, you know rivalry go too far and become something that is, I mean, physically detrimental is sort of more obvious, but psychologically detrimental.

00;04;38;00 - 00;04;40;03
Paul Sullivan
When does it go too far?

00;04;40;05 - 00;05;03;19
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
It goes too far. When, So when does it cross? Cross the line? It goes too far when there's, too much of it or there's just an imbalance between the kids and it's really having an impact on one or both children and on their mental health, on their physical health. It's gone too far. And, so kids are feeling frustrated.

00;05;03;19 - 00;05;25;21
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
They're feeling angry. They they may be not sure how to manage it. So it's, you know, they they might take out their frustration and anger and aggressive ways and the aggression can come through psychologically making threats. Or as you mentioned, it also could be, physical with pushing or kicking or punching.

00;05;25;24 - 00;05;45;08
Paul Sullivan
All right. Fine. Good. Good to find that. All right. Question. You know, three, siblings. You know, they fight a lot. And as a parent, I and speak personally. You know, I've got three daughters. You know, sometimes you sort of let it run. Sometimes. It becomes too much and you start to feel like, a referee.

00;05;45;08 - 00;06;07;29
Paul Sullivan
But you want to be fair. Like, if there's one word that we hear as parent, it's like, that's not fair. So you want to be fair? As you're refereeing this, you don't want the fighting. You know, what should parents do? You know, should they ignore the fighting and the squabbling or should they step in and, you know, help kids try to kind of resolve this?

00;06;08;02 - 00;06;11;23
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Look, siblings are going to fight. They share space. They spend a lot on a child.

00;06;11;24 - 00;06;17;02
Paul Sullivan
I'm an only child. So this is literally a news alert until I had three kids. But all right. You don't fight.

00;06;17;03 - 00;06;49;00
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
They're going to fight. You know, they share space. They share parents. There's there's lots of opportunities. There's also this emotional intensity that comes with being a sibling where you just have the best time ever with your brother or sister, or you have never felt the anger like that ever in your life before when kids are young. Rather than parents stepping in or ignoring you, stepping in and maybe defending the younger sibling or just settling it, or ignoring it when kids are younger.

00;06;49;01 - 00;07;20;14
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
As I mentioned earlier, this really is a teaching opportunity to teach social and emotional skills. Teaching them how to manage conflict and resolve conflict. And these are skills which has been shown that you take with you, with your peers, your romantic partners, and even in the workplace. This is where you learn how to manage arguments. So parents, when kids are young, can teach them about, listening perspectives, taking, empathizing, figuring out what you're even fighting about.

00;07;20;14 - 00;07;41;05
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Because so many times when kids get in fights, they don't even know what they're fighting about. One kid thinks it's one thing and it's the other. So identifying a problem and when you would identify it, you can actually spend time solving it. Parents should, teach these skills when kids are younger, but as they age, let them, step out of it and let them manage the fight.

00;07;41;05 - 00;08;04;21
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
So you can kind of listen to see if they need help, but don't go running to help them. You really want them to, have their own relationship where they can trust one another. They can work together, and that will carry them throughout their life. I mean, this is you want them. This is one of the longest relationships that individuals will ever have across their lifespan.

00;08;04;23 - 00;08;21;14
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
And so you want this to be a source of place where they can, feel comfortable. They can trust them, feel it's a source of support and they can work together. And especially as a parent, you want your kids to work together, especially when you get older. It's so important.

00;08;21;17 - 00;08;28;24
Paul Sullivan
I love that. I'm so glad you didn't say like, jab with the left. Like, hold back with the right. I'm so glad. Like, I should have thought.

00;08;28;25 - 00;08;30;14
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Another pic. One kid.

00;08;30;16 - 00;08;52;18
Paul Sullivan
That's the. Oh, yeah. Pick your favorite. That's that. That'll work out well. Question number four, professor. One of the best tactics, like, you know, like you're talking and you're saying wonderful data, but kind of general, like if you're a parent, you're in the moment. You can imagine what you want to do, but you're not quite sure how you're going to get to that.

00;08;52;18 - 00;09;01;28
Paul Sullivan
So what are the best tactics that a parent can use to manage and defuze this discomfort?

00;09;02;01 - 00;09;11;20
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
So you're you want to create what we call constructive conflict where there is this compromise that's listening, working together.

00;09;11;22 - 00;09;18;23
Paul Sullivan
I thought you were going to tell me that they were, like, setting the table and doing the dishes while fighting. That would be constructive to me. That's not what you're talking about.

00;09;18;23 - 00;09;39;04
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
No, no. So as a parent, again, you don't want to step in and settle it because they're in that when you step in and settle something, you are not giving them an opportunity to learn. You're not giving them an opportunity to work together to build their relationship together. You know, you want your children to have an independent relationship.

00;09;39;06 - 00;10;06;04
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
And so you as a parent want to step back and act as a mediator, take that neutral third party role. And with young children, I keep mentioning this word coaching young children may have difficulty thinking in logical ways, coming up with solutions, understanding how to cooperate or share. And so as a neutral third party, you can, you know, say you to work it out.

00;10;06;07 - 00;10;31;15
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
What what do you think, little Sally? Or what do you think, Joey? What do you think? Would, you know, solve this problem that we've identified? If they're younger, they might need help. So you can make suggestions. But the key here is that the siblings decide. They decide how to settle it and what should be done as then as a parent, you praise them when they get along and they do this you really want them to.

00;10;31;15 - 00;10;37;03
Paul Sullivan
Have and they don't get along and they don't do this. You yell and scream and and they know does your for you.

00;10;37;05 - 00;10;55;06
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
So again a good tip is to model good conflict management and resolution skills yourself. Good social emotional skills if you're have a calm if you're calm, take a breath. They will be too.

00;10;55;08 - 00;11;14;25
Paul Sullivan
All right, I love it. All right. Question number five. As we always say, five questions, five answers. You've been in this game for a long time, both as a mom of three and as a professor as an academic. What do you think is the most important part of your research that our listeners could take something away from today?

00;11;14;27 - 00;11;41;13
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
The sibling relationship is often overlooked as an important family relationship. A lot of times there's a focus on the parent child, but we know that this relationship is important for mental and physical well-being across the lifespan, and that not all aggressive behavior is rivalry. Sometimes it crosses a line and parents need to step in and mediate this fantastic.

00;11;41;13 - 00;11;54;12
Paul Sullivan
Karina Jenkins Tucker, professor emeritus emerita at the Department of Human Development and Family, is at the University of New Hampshire. Thank you again, Karina, for being our guest today on the Company Dads podcast.

00;11;54;14 - 00;11;56;02
Corinna Jenkins Tucker
Thank you.

00;11;56;05 - 00;12;21;16
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to the Company of Dads podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do, the company that possible. Helder Moura, who is our audio producer Lindsay Decker, handles all of our social media. Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition. Emily Servin, who is our web maestro and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me.

00;12;21;16 - 00;12;39;06
Paul Sullivan
And many of the things that we do here at the Company of Dads. It's a great team. And we're we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop for everything is our newsletter, the dad sign up at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad. Thank you again for listening.