EP140: How Parents Can (and Should) Control Childhood Tech

Interview with Titania Jordan / Chief Parent Officer and CMO at Bark

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Sure, there's a lot our children can learn on the internet, but there are plenty of websites, apps, and traps that they need to avoid. And it's our job as parents to help them. Titania Jordan, a mom and the Chief Parent Officer and CMO at Bark, an internet safety company, has tips on best internet practices, crucial conversations, and even tech that can help monitor and limit our kids’ device usage. Listen and get ways to protect your kids.

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Transcript

00;00;00;05 - 00;00;40;08
Titania Jordan
With regards to technology. We need to, as parents, approach it as a very powerful tool, not as a babysitter or a source of entertainment. Meaning we approach cars very carefully and we make sure our children have car seats and seatbelts. We let kids play outside, but hopefully with sunscreen. You know what I mean? And so as long as we're aware of the possibilities, both good and bad, of what children can encounter or do with that tech, we will be better suited.

00;00;40;11 - 00;01;02;03
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast. After 120 plus episodes, we're doing something different this season. I'm still your host, Paul Sullivan, and we're still focused on lead dads, working moms, and how small changes at home or work can have a big impact on their lives. What's new is each episode now promises to deliver actionable advice on some area of concern at home or at work.

00;01;02;05 - 00;01;33;08
Paul Sullivan
Short. Direct. Again. Actionable. Five questions. Five answers. Today, our guest is to Titania Jordan, chief marketing officer at Bark Technologies. And if you're a parent with screen age kids like I am, your shouting OMG right now it's like you're seeing Taylor Swift in your coffee shop. As parents, we know Bark Bark is one of the go to sources to bring sanity to a house full of screen obsessed children with monitoring and all kinds of safety features.

00;01;33;09 - 00;01;53;18
Paul Sullivan
Disney Circle is another one. Custodio is another one out there. None of these companies are paying me. I am legitimately enthusiastic to be talking to the CMO of bark, and this is an amazing time to have this talk, because Titania has also just written a new book called Parental Control A Guide to Raising Balanced Kids in the Digital ERA.

00;01;53;23 - 00;01;59;02
Paul Sullivan
She's coming to us live from Atlanta. Welcome, Titania, to the company. Thank you.

00;01;59;05 - 00;02;02;09
Titania Jordan
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

00;02;02;11 - 00;02;10;04
Paul Sullivan
At some point, is your phone going to just beep during this because, like, it hasn't turned off and you're not good with technology, you're going to get distracted by your phone at some point, have you?

00;02;10;06 - 00;02;11;02
Titania Jordan
I hope not.

00;02;11;04 - 00;02;37;00
Paul Sullivan
Okay, good. All right. That was that wasn't the first question. I said five was that the first question is a serious one and it's a broad one. You know, from your your day job at Barc, from your book Parental Control, how should parents approach technology today, particularly when you know, the majority of us grew up with nothing like our our kids have right now?

00;02;37;02 - 00;03;15;11
Titania Jordan
Great question. I would say we need to, as parents, approach it as a very powerful tool, not as a babysitter or a source of entertainment. Meaning we approach cars very carefully and we make sure our children have car seats and seatbelts. We let kids play outside, but hopefully with sunscreen. You know what I mean? And so with regards to technology, as long as we're aware of the possibilities, both good and bad of what children can encounter or do with that tech, we will be better suited for it.

00;03;15;15 - 00;03;24;12
Paul Sullivan
And for people who don't know bark give us, you know, the one on 101 on how bark can help parents? Sure. Yeah.

00;03;24;15 - 00;03;56;20
Titania Jordan
Yeah. So bark launched in 2015 utilizing artificial intelligence. Before everybody knew it, you know, ChatGPT was, to analyze children's digital signal. Our algorithm would analyze children's text, emails, browsing history, over 30 social media platforms, and then send parents specific consolidated alerts when their children had encountered problematic content or problematic people. And along with those alerts, bark would give best recommended next steps for how to address.

00;03;56;22 - 00;04;17;19
Titania Jordan
How do you talk to your kids when they're the bully? How do you talk to your kids about online predators and suicidal ideation? Heavy stuff. So we started with our app. We quickly expanded to offer our technology to any school in the nation for free because of the, the ramping up of violence taking place in school. We then launched hardware.

00;04;17;22 - 00;04;39;24
Titania Jordan
We started with the Bark Home, which goes in your home and connects to your router to help with things with the app. Couldn't do, like setting time limits on a PlayStation or smart TV and filters. We then launched a safer smartphone for kids because, as we know, children kept getting smartphones that, either were not safe or they just weren't ready for them.

00;04;39;24 - 00;04;52;11
Titania Jordan
So we figured might as well create a safer option. And then finally, most recently, we launched a safer smartwatch for kids. So we have software and hardware that helps to keep kids safer online and in real life.

00;04;52;14 - 00;05;24;07
Paul Sullivan
Again, like I'm not getting paid for saying any of this. We have the thing hooked up to our router. It is amazing because otherwise you end up having the same conversations again and again. Like, how long have you been on your phone? I don't know. Just got on it. Like, really, I think, you know, not only well, it doesn't happen anymore because you can shut it off and it's such, like a powerful tool for parents to be able to sort of, I don't know, say like take one thing off their plate, but to know, like, okay, you know, they have an hour to do this and, and you get the alerts like if something

00;05;24;07 - 00;05;39;03
Paul Sullivan
and sometimes a funny alert, sometimes they like they, they search or something like okay, that's fine. That's actually just part of a recipe that's not, you know, anything because it is it is an algorithm. But. Right. All right. Now here's the thing though. You know, as parent, your parent, you know how many you have two kids, correct.

00;05;39;06 - 00;05;41;15
Titania Jordan
One child and he just turned 16.

00;05;41;18 - 00;06;01;29
Paul Sullivan
One child 16. Okay. All right. So my oldest is 15. So you're you're in it. So when we think about this as parents we worry about lots of things. But sometimes we worry about things that we don't need to worry about. And other times we there may be things out there that we should be worrying about, but we're not aware of when it comes to, you know, technology.

00;06;02;01 - 00;06;22;20
Paul Sullivan
You know, what do we worry about that we really shouldn't be worrying about, or that we can find some sort of technology to, to keep us from worrying? And more importantly, what are those things that, as parents, you know, are 15 and 16 year old kids know about, but we're completely unaware of and that what we really need to be paying attention to.

00;06;22;22 - 00;06;33;18
Titania Jordan
Such great questions. So to the first part of that question or the first question, but the the second question, first part of the second question,

00;06;33;20 - 00;06;56;14
Titania Jordan
What most parents are afraid of that they don't need to be is their kids being left out? We give our children access to apps like Snapchat and TikTok and Instagram before our children are ready, because we're afraid they will be left out. Our children convince us that they're the only ones that don't have X, Y, and Z, and that's usually a not the case.

00;06;56;16 - 00;07;26;21
Titania Jordan
They're usually not the only one, and b we actually do want our children to be left out of the bad the bullying, the graphic violent sexual content, the addictive algorithms, the misinformation around mental health and body image. There's a lot we actually want our children to be left out of. Now, the flip side of that is we, don't need to keep our kids in a bubble fully isolated from what's happening digitally, socially.

00;07;26;24 - 00;07;51;19
Titania Jordan
We need to prioritize in real life connection for them, make sure they are doing sports, art, drama clubs, volunteering like get our children out of their rooms and out of the house and engaging with humans in real life so they aren't left out of the good of humanity. So that's that's that's that part. What? Parents don't know that our kids know so much.

00;07;51;19 - 00;08;18;22
Titania Jordan
Goodness gracious. You know, a lot of parents will give their kids access to Snapchat. What? They don't even have it yet. And within Snapchat, there's something called snap maps that shows your child's real time live location with anybody they're connected to, which is not ideal if they're connected to people they don't know. What parents don't know about Snapchat is that that's one key way that children's mental health is affected.

00;08;18;25 - 00;08;38;01
Titania Jordan
Let's say everybody's at the movie theater and you're not. You see it in real time on Snapchat. You're like, oh, well, everybody's there and I'm not. And then they'll all toggle to ghost mode. So all of a sudden they go offline because they don't want anybody to know where they are. And then you're extra left out and that does not feel good.

00;08;38;03 - 00;09;04;11
Titania Jordan
Parents don't know that there are over half a million predators out there known according to the FBI. And those predators are talking to your children, whether it's on Instagram or Roblox or Discord or Pinterest, like you name it. It's really not a matter of if, but when your child experiences something and you think your child will tell you or you think you'll know and I'm here to tell you, you will not.

00;09;04;13 - 00;09;21;12
Titania Jordan
Children are afraid to tell you. When they've encountered things, they're either confused or they're scared that you'll punish them. You'll take away their access and so we need to work really hard to make sure our kids know where a safe place. They can tell us things, and we'll navigate it together without freaking out.

00;09;21;14 - 00;09;34;05
Paul Sullivan
All right. You told me that we don't want our kids to grow up in a bubble, but you've just scared the hell out of me, so. All right. Yeah. Now that you scared the hell out of me and probably scared the hell out of all the other people. Who are listening, take it to the next step, you know?

00;09;34;05 - 00;09;44;22
Paul Sullivan
But again. And, what? We don't know as parents, okay? We don't know these things. You just listed a whole bunch of, scary to horrifying things. What do we do first?

00;09;44;22 - 00;10;09;27
Titania Jordan
Be aware. Get your head out of the sand. You still think? Not, my kid. Good kids make bad choices, right? That's why they legally need an adult guardian to help guide them through childhood. So be aware, have multiple, candid conversations with your children from a very young age about these issues, because they'll know that you're in the know and they'll be more likely to come to you.

00;10;10;00 - 00;10;32;07
Titania Jordan
You know, you don't have to come right out and talk about sexual predators with your four year old. But you can talk about tricky people who might seem really nice online. But when they start to ask you personally identifiable information like your real name and where you live and where you go to school, that's a red flag. They might seem like a nice person, but there are tricky person and mom and dad need to know about that.

00;10;32;10 - 00;10;55;08
Titania Jordan
So multiple candid conversations, you know? No, nobody looks forward to the day when they need to talk to their child about porn. But they do. And that's why there's, really helpful books out there, like good pictures, bad pictures you can get on Amazon. That helps to explain. Hey, when you see something online that might seem confusing, scary, exciting, intriguing.

00;10;55;10 - 00;11;15;02
Titania Jordan
That's a normal reaction. But here's what you need to do when you come across that, because it can actually hurt your brain and hurt your heart and hurt your ability to have a really healthy relationship with somebody else when you're old enough to. So, when it comes to mental health, you know, this is heavy and hard, but we need to talk about it.

00;11;15;05 - 00;11;45;18
Titania Jordan
Suicide is the second leading cause of death in children in this nation. And because of that, we're seeing it at Barc two at Berkeley. Send between 85 and 100 severe self-harm and suicidal ideation alerts to parents about their kids every single day. So back to how do you talk to your kids about that when they're young? You don't have to come right out and say suicide, but you can say, hey, you know how if you break your arm, it hurts really bad and you've got to go to the doctor and get a cast and X-rays?

00;11;45;20 - 00;12;06;28
Titania Jordan
Well, sometimes our hearts and our minds keep still. Really, really bad and really sad and really painful. And that's a normal part of being human. And you don't ever have to be afraid to to talk to me about it, because I can help you. And there's a lot of things out there that, are built to help people, whether their bodies or their brains or their hearts are hurting.

00;12;07;00 - 00;12;25;17
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Amazing. You know, question three kind of connects to that one there. You know, as parents, we'd be we'd be you know, not doing our job if we didn't talk to our kids about sex, if we didn't talk to our kids about drugs, if they didn't talk to our kids about, you know, underage drinking or drinking and driving.

00;12;25;20 - 00;12;51;04
Paul Sullivan
Why is it, you know, more challenging, it seems. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems for parents to have that conversation around technology with their kids. Is it because for the most part, we didn't grow up with it, but we grew up with, you know, sex and drugs and and drinking or what is it that causes them, you know, to to be more challenged and talk about technology?

00;12;51;04 - 00;12;57;18
Paul Sullivan
And of course, the corollary question of that is how do we help them?

00;12;57;21 - 00;13;35;15
Titania Jordan
If our children only spent 20 minutes a day on connected tech, it wouldn't be as dire. But if you look at the average amount of screen time for children, whether it's across school use, home use, etc. entertainment, educational otherwise, it's upwards of 6 to 8 hours a day. And so if any human is spending that much daily time of their life encountering something and there's other humans there, we need to talk about it because that is the new real life in a way.

00;13;35;17 - 00;13;46;10
Titania Jordan
You know, we guide our children through the nuances of being human in the world, but we now have to do that as part of their digital world as well.

00;13;46;13 - 00;14;08;09
Paul Sullivan
Interesting. But how do you then help them like, you know, I do you find when you're talking to parents and particularly with, you know your new book parental control as you, as you're going out there talking about it and having people read it and engage with it, what are, you know, some of the tips you give people who you know, may be uncomfortable, may not even know where to to start, you know, how do you help them start?

00;14;08;11 - 00;14;24;27
Titania Jordan
Goodness gracious. Usually I start by telling people to take a deep breath because this isn't easy. You know, we don't have this all figured out. Like, Paul, you and I are the first generation of parents that are having to parent in a world like this. So we do have to give ourselves some grace. We're not going to get it right all of the time.

00;14;24;29 - 00;14;50;07
Titania Jordan
Then it's again, be aware, stay dialed in, consume the appropriate information so you know what you need to talk to your kids about. You can mitigate a lot of the dangers by some easy, free tips like don't allow your children to keep connected tech in the bedrooms or behind closed doors, right? Keep connected tech in the common areas of the home.

00;14;50;09 - 00;15;15;13
Titania Jordan
Don't be afraid to delay. As my friend Chris McKenna of Protect Your Life says, delay is the way. Just because a bunch of kids in your, child's fifth grade class have smartphones and Snapchat doesn't mean that they need to have it, too. Period. We have got to be more confident as a parent, because later, as longer, so many parents have made the mistake of trying to be their child's friend instead of their parent.

00;15;15;19 - 00;15;35;24
Titania Jordan
Right? And from 18 to 80, you guys can be friends. They need parent right now. I mean, there's so many things. There's there's a Facebook group. I started a Facebook group called parenting in a Tech World that has almost 600,000 parents in it now. So go to the Facebook group and you can ask questions anonymously. Get the help you need.

00;15;35;24 - 00;15;41;15
Titania Jordan
Because every there's Emily's different a pause there, but I can go on.

00;15;41;18 - 00;16;05;18
Paul Sullivan
It's fantastic. It kind of goes into the next question is question for and that, you know, kids are quite amazing at if they are growing up in a two parent household, they're quite amazing at playing parents, off each other. They're, they know when a parent is distracted or overwhelmed, overwhelmed and like, hey, can I have this? And maybe not knowing that the other parent has already said no because, you know, no kid asked to get a yes twice a year to know.

00;16;05;18 - 00;16;28;18
Paul Sullivan
They then try to guess what do you do? With parents, if they don't agree on limits or guidelines around tech, because we've talked about parents having the conversation with kids, how do you, you know, help parents realize that this is something, you know, essential that both parents need to be on the same page.

00;16;28;20 - 00;16;49;19
Titania Jordan
This is a very tough one, right. And and family therapists have struggled with this for many years when tech wasn't even involved. And, you know, either dual parent households or just parents who are together but don't see eye to eye. I mean, one of the biggest takeaways from being a parent for the past 16 years is that you have to be aligned with your co-parent.

00;16;49;21 - 00;17;29;26
Titania Jordan
You have to you guys have got to be on the same page. If you're going to be a unified front and show resolve for your child, because children can sniff out weakness, right? And they will absolutely divide and conquer and take you down like so. You've got to put your ego, your emotion, your anger, your frustration aside. And please, please try to in a mature way, come together and decide what is best for your child, what's best for your child, not what do you, you know, want what's best for your child and hopefully most parents, whether they even like each other or not, can agree that what is best for the child is best.

00;17;29;26 - 00;17;40;23
Titania Jordan
So let's do that. But I mean, this is all this is probably five episodes, right? Plus maybe, suggestion to go on doctor still, like, actually, you know.

00;17;40;26 - 00;18;05;26
Paul Sullivan
Fantastic. You know, question five. You know, where I live in the northeast, schools are banning, you know, phones during school hours are there, you know, put him in boxes. You know, there are so many concerns around, you know, TikTok, you know, feeding kids it detrimental content to the, their algorithm. And it gets to a point where it's, you know, it just seems overwhelming.

00;18;05;26 - 00;18;23;29
Paul Sullivan
We forget that there's a lot of good stuff that you can get online. There's like things you can learn, a lot of groups, you can, you know, join. You talked about your Facebook group to sort of share knowledge, you know, where is all of this going? And, you know, how do you as an author, but you is also the CMO of Arc.

00;18;23;29 - 00;18;36;24
Paul Sullivan
How do you see, you know, the role that the kind of digital safety companies like, like bar can play in making sure that we get as close to an optimal outcome as as possible?

00;18;36;26 - 00;19;08;12
Titania Jordan
This sounds so cliche, but knowledge is power. And when you know better, you can do better. So when you know that Pinterest, for example, is a really fun place for your child who likes to curate, maybe design ideas or recipes for upcoming holidays, but you know that there are some dangers. You can go to them proactively and say, hey, I'm excited for you to be able to use this tool, but I want you to know there's some there's some things that you can stumble upon that might not be healthy for you or good for you.

00;19;08;15 - 00;19;23;18
Titania Jordan
There's even some people on there that might try to message you that are totally creepy. So I just want you to know that you can come to me and let me know when that happens. And you know, we're going to we're going to use this tool, you know, during these hours or for this purpose, but also know that it can become really addictive.

00;19;23;18 - 00;19;48;27
Titania Jordan
And so we need to as, as often as we curate, you know, vision boards digitally. Let's get out to the real world and create actually, let's actually make some of these recipes. Let's actually draw or design some of these things. So it's you've got to be really thoughtful about all of it. But again, if you know that there are problems, you can point them out and not keep your kid in the bubble.

00;19;48;27 - 00;20;08;05
Titania Jordan
Right? But much like your child is going to have to eventually cross the street one day and or drive like my child got his license today. Oh my gosh. You know, I'm like, we're talking about all the things would eventually I've got to let him let him go, let him make mistakes. Hopefully they will not be fatal.

00;20;08;08 - 00;20;09;13
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Well yeah.

00;20;09;15 - 00;20;10;24
Titania Jordan
I mean but it's.

00;20;10;24 - 00;20;39;29
Paul Sullivan
Atlanta, it's Atlanta. He'll just be sitting in traffic all the time, so be fine. He won't go more than like 18 miles an hour. I hope so. Oh, boy. To Tanya Jordan, chief marketing officer at Bark Technologies, author of Parental Control A Guide to Raising Balanced Kids in the Digital ERA. This has been amazing. But, you know, one bonus question for you before I let you go and that, you know, you've talked to Broad Brush, but you've just come out of this book.

00;20;39;29 - 00;20;51;16
Paul Sullivan
What are, you know, the 2 or 3 top things that parents will get from reading your book that will help them understand this digital world. A bit better.

00;20;51;19 - 00;21;16;24
Titania Jordan
Top 2 or 3 things. One I would say is confidence. Confidence that if you have been feeling in your gut that something isn't quite right with the way we've been parenting kids with regards to tech for the past few years, you will get validation and you'll get, data based strategies for what to do about it. So confidence that you're not alone.

00;21;16;27 - 00;21;42;03
Titania Jordan
You'll get actual data. We publish at Barc an annual report every year that showcases the rate at which children have encountered problematic content and problematic people. And you're not going to get that sort of information from meta, from TikTok, from Snapchat. They don't want you to know how bad it is. Right. So you'll you'll have, tangible insights and then resources.

00;21;42;03 - 00;22;02;10
Titania Jordan
There are so many resources out there. Obviously, I'd love for you to use Barc. I think it's the best. That's why I work there. But it's not just Barc that's out there doing amazing things in this child safety space online. So you'll be made aware to what what free and paid tools there are, you know, at your disposal.

00;22;02;13 - 00;22;08;18
Paul Sullivan
Fantastic. Tanager. And thank you again for being my guest on the Company Days podcast.

00;22;08;21 - 00;22;12;15
Titania Jordan
Thank you for having me.

00;22;12;18 - 00;22;32;24
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Company Dad podcast. I really appreciate you tuning in week after week to really use this moment here to thank the people who make it possible. Number one, of course, Helder Mira, who is our podcast editor. We also have Skip Terry Home, so many of you know from the lead Diaries, he's taken over our social media.

00;22;32;24 - 00;22;53;16
Paul Sullivan
Terry Brennan is helping us with our audience development. And Emily Servant is there. Each and every day helping with the web development and can't do any of this without, an amazing board, of advisors. So I just want to say thank you to all of you who help and I want to say thank you to everyone who listened.

00;22;53;16 - 00;22;56;28
Paul Sullivan
And, hopefully you'll tune in again next week. Thanks so much.