EP150: Better Sleep & Happy Children – The Secret To Both

Interview with Dr. Harvey Karp / Author, Creator of the SNOO Smart Sleeper

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

What if raising happier kids and getting better sleep were simpler than you think? Dr. Harvey Karp - world-renowned pediatrician and creator of the SNOO Smart Sleeper - shares the science behind calmer homes and well-rested parents. With decades of experience, he unpacks common mistakes around sleep and discipline while offering practical, science-backed advice for working parents - especially dads - who want to bring more peace and joy into family life.

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Transcript

00;00;00;03 - 00;00;31;14
Harvey Karp
The biggest thing that I think families are struggling with today is not the lack of sleep, it's the lack of the extended family up until 100 years ago, and for the entire history of humanity, you had five nannies, you had your grandma, your aunt, your older sister, etc. and so we created this new work with MIT Media Lab engineers and leading designers to create this kind of a robotic baby bed or helper that imitates the womb experience and response when they're upset with increasing levels of motion and sound.

00;00;31;16 - 00;00;49;19
Harvey Karp
And we're doing that and it secures babies so they can't roll to danger. So we're doing this for a whole host of reasons. We're doing it to improvement in sleep improvement and safety, reduce infant crying, help develop their brains.

00;00;49;21 - 00;01;17;10
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the company Dads podcast. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. We're focused on lead dads, working moms and how small changes at home or work can have a big impact on their lives. Each episode promises to deliver actionable advice on some area of concern at home or at work. Short. Direct. Again. Actionable. Five questions. Five answers. Today, our guest is Doctor Harvey Karp, world renowned pediatrician and child development expert.

00;01;17;10 - 00;01;40;21
Paul Sullivan
Many of you will know his books Happiest Baby Now, The One Happiest Toddler videos everything is guy that millions of parents with translated into 20 languages. He's also the creator of this new smart sleeper. And here's the thing for a new parent, it promises FDA approved. Not making this up promises an additional 1 to 2 hours of sleep, a day, and reduces dangerous rolling.

00;01;40;21 - 00;01;47;05
Paul Sullivan
That means parents get another 1 to 2 hours of sleep a day. Doctor Karp, welcome to the company.

00;01;47;06 - 00;01;48;21
Harvey Karp
Thanks, Paul. Good to be with you.

00;01;48;23 - 00;02;07;14
Paul Sullivan
Thank you so you've been at this, a while. Done a lot of research, but you're also, you know, pediatrician. You're in there seeing kids. Are babies happier today than when you started out? Do we have more knowledge that's allowed us to be better parents? You know, on the whole.

00;02;07;16 - 00;02;10;17
Harvey Karp
Well, if Mommy and daddy are happy, baby is happy.

00;02;10;18 - 00;02;15;02
Paul Sullivan
So if baby cries, mommy and daddy get to cry too. Is this it?

00;02;15;05 - 00;02;40;18
Harvey Karp
You know something? When babies are sleeping, mommy and daddy get to sleep. That's one thing I can assure you. If they choose to. But in all seriousness, we are learning about making kids happier and more well-balanced. So I give you one example. I mean, as you said in the beginning, this is about practical tips. Whoever said that being in a dark, quiet room for 12 hours a night is the best thing for a baby's developing brain.

00;02;40;20 - 00;03;05;10
Harvey Karp
I mean, you know, we all grew up with a tick tock of the baby sleeping. Everyone be quiet. Actually, the sound in the womb is louder than a vacuum cleaner 24 over seven. And what we're learning is that actually giving children rhythmic sensations all night long, and even during the day, is much more nurturing for the brain than being in dark silence for 12 hours.

00;03;05;12 - 00;03;29;29
Harvey Karp
And so one of the things that the work that we're doing with Snhu, but other work that's being done in hospitals with something called kangaroo care, where premature babies are strapped onto their mothers or father's chest for 6 or 8 or ten hours a day. These studies of these premature babies who get the rhythmic closeness and coziness 15 years later, they have improved brain development.

00;03;30;01 - 00;03;54;26
Harvey Karp
Other studies that show if we can improve sleep of infants, we can also improve their brain development. So so rhythms using sound at night, using rocking, using swaddling. Those are things that are all associated with a better sleep and less crying. And now be evidence that we're actually able to mature the brain and, in a more advanced way.

00;03;54;28 - 00;04;07;20
Paul Sullivan
And to dumb it down, is that because when a baby is in utero, the baby, the mother's obviously moving around. And so the baby is used to that, that motion and the noise, or is it something else that contributes to that develop?

00;04;07;21 - 00;04;27;03
Harvey Karp
It's it's something else. So so thank you for mentioning the happiest Baby on the block. That's a book I wrote 20 some odd years ago. But in it I describe something that has never been described in the medical literature, which is that babies have a reflex, almost an off switch for crying and an on switch for sleep called a calming reflex.

00;04;27;06 - 00;04;48;11
Harvey Karp
And the way you turn that on is by imitating the rhythms of the womb. It's like we all know to do this. Like if a baby is asleep in your arms, you rock them slowly and you're shush them quietly. But if they're crying, you kind of get more bouncy and your shushing louder and more high pitched. Why do you do more bouncy and more high pitch?

00;04;48;11 - 00;05;18;03
Harvey Karp
You're actually turning on a reflex. You're flipping on this switch, which is one of the most important reflexes that human beings ever had. Because that preserved the human race. The human species is is, is existing because babies could keep their heads down by the cervix the last two months of pregnancy and be born head first, because if they're not born head first, they get stuck by their shoulders and their legs and.

00;05;18;08 - 00;05;36;00
Harvey Karp
Right. And so our big brain babies have to be born head first. Once they're born, you can put them into this trance by doing the rhythms of the womb. And in fact, even adults fall asleep in trains and planes and cars because of this ancient reflex. That's part of our brain.

00;05;36;02 - 00;05;53;08
Paul Sullivan
And again, intellectually, I agree with that. But, you know, sort of practically, I remember, you know, my three daughters, I would have to if I was rested, I would get in the glider and I'd sit there with one arm metadata. I was a real crier, and we didn't realize for six months at that that she had some reflux issues and all this.

00;05;53;08 - 00;06;23;11
Paul Sullivan
But for this first six months, and if I could get into that glider and just kind of ignore the crying and rock back and forth, she would go to sleep. Of course, just as you're saying, you know, you know, scientifically proven. But the reality is, as a parent, you had a lot of other things going on. And if you're a working parent and if you have other kids, how do you help parent, you know, realize that in the most in extremist moments, they need to be, you know, calmer than they would be in everyday life to to soothe their baby?

00;06;23;14 - 00;06;27;14
Harvey Karp
Well, I mean, slipping out doesn't help us in any situation.

00;06;27;15 - 00;06;32;14
Paul Sullivan
Doesn't help anybody. Yelling doesn't really solve any problem. Well, we still yeah we still yeah it doesn't really self.

00;06;32;15 - 00;07;10;19
Harvey Karp
Listening and I you know, I mean nobody's perfect in any of this. But the fact of the matter is that, the biggest thing that I think families are struggling with today is not the lack of sleep, it's the lack of the extended family up until 100 years ago. And for the entire history of humanity, you had five nannies, you had your grandma, your aunt, your older sister, etc. and so we created this new work with MIT Media Lab engineers and leading designers to create this kind of a robotic baby bed or helper that imitates the womb experience and response when they're upset with increasing levels of motion and sound.

00;07;10;22 - 00;07;38;14
Harvey Karp
And we're doing that and it secures babies so they can't roll to danger. So we're doing this for a whole host of reasons. We're doing it to improve infant sleep improvement and safety, reduce infant crying, help develop their brains. But from the parents point of view, what we're trying to do is give a support system so that they can cook dinner or eat dinner, or take a shower and be able to get that little bit of time, like you're saying, to rock in the glider.

00;07;38;14 - 00;08;00;10
Harvey Karp
Now, you didn't have a snooper, but if you had a Snoo, you probably you could rocking the glider. If you wanted. But if you didn't have the time to do that, you could put your little child in snow, and snow would be rocking in the glider. And so now, parents, for the cost of a Starbucks coffee a day, can can in essence have a 24 hour helper in the house.

00;08;00;13 - 00;08;20;19
Paul Sullivan
Fascinating. You know, question two. I you know, I said my oldest is is 16, so, you know, call it 16. And a half years ago, we went to our local hospital and they had parent training. And, it was, you know, after work, bunch other, you know, soon to be parents there. They showed us how to put a diaper on a doll.

00;08;20;19 - 00;08;38;29
Paul Sullivan
They showed us how to sue the doll. They gave us a donut. They gave us, you know, you know, orange juice, what have you. And I walked out of there pretty confident. And then, of course, you know, what happened in reality was was utterly different than that. And I thought, you know, I felt gypped. Like that course should have been taught by a retired Navy Seal.

00;08;39;04 - 00;09;00;03
Paul Sullivan
Like kicking the door into my house at three in the morning after I had one glass of wine too many and throwing water on me. That would have been you know, more realistic. So if there's question in question two here in your expertise, how can we, you know, make it better for fathers and mothers who are going into parenthood for the first time?

00;09;00;03 - 00;09;16;19
Paul Sullivan
What are the things that they really need to know that they're not getting from these classes, or they don't have time necessarily to read in the books, but the things that will help them be better prepared for what it's like, whether it's their first child, second child, or third child.

00;09;16;21 - 00;09;34;11
Harvey Karp
Yeah. Well, it turns out the good news is it's not rocket science, right? I mean, shampooing the hair, you're going to learn that taking care of the belly button, you're going to learn that. But there are three skills that make it a break it for you. It's kind of I, I tell my patients it parenting with a baby.

00;09;34;11 - 00;09;57;25
Harvey Karp
It's like a three legged stool. If you got the three legs there, it's easy peasy. If you lose it, any one of the legs, you're going to have real problems. And so feeding the baby obviously, whether you're breastfeeding or bottle feeding, doesn't matter. You got to be successful with that. And there are all sorts of lactation consultant and allegedly and all sorts of support for, for women today and, and parents today in terms of feeding their babies.

00;09;57;27 - 00;10;22;12
Harvey Karp
But the other two legs are coming crying and getting sleep. And in fact, that is why I wrote this book so many years ago, because nobody was teaching parents how to do those two things. And in fact, parents are mis educated and they're talking with the baby's stomach is the size of a walnut. They need to eat or wake up all the time because you got to feed them every two hours.

00;10;22;15 - 00;10;44;00
Harvey Karp
And then we tell them, you know, some babies cry, we call it colic. We don't know exactly what it is. I mean, yes, sometimes it's a reflex issue like your daughter had, but many times it isn't a reflex issue and it's misdiagnosis reflex. And really what it is is the baby wishing that they were back in the uterus where they had a happy time.

00;10;44;02 - 00;11;06;16
Harvey Karp
And so, so what anybody can learn now is they can come to our, our website, they can read the book or come to the website. And we made a video, a little 30 minute video, which teaches people something called the five S's, which are the five steps to turn on the calming reflex. Super easy. It's swaddling with the arms down.

00;11;06;18 - 00;11;27;10
Harvey Karp
It's a side or stomach position. Now the back is the only position for sleep that's safe, but it's the worst position for a crying baby. So you roll them to the side or stomach to calm the crying. And once they're calm and you put them to sleep, you put them on the back. The third s is shushing or white noise, the fourth s it's raining, or rhythmic motion like you did in the glider.

00;11;27;12 - 00;11;50;02
Harvey Karp
And the fifth best is sucking. And what's really interesting is babies are different. Some babies, they all kind of need swaddling, but some swaddling and sound are the secret cabo. Some are swaddling in motion. Some kids need 3 or 4 of these at the same time. Once you find what your baby responds to, that's the secret sauce, and they'll respond to that over and over again.

00;11;50;05 - 00;12;09;10
Harvey Karp
And matter of fact, they respond faster and faster as they learn. You know that you are delivering the things that they need. So to answer your question, those are the things that new parents need to know. Feeding babies, successfully, calming, crying and getting sleep. Did you? And that you use white noise when we talking about practical things.

00;12;09;12 - 00;12;13;08
Paul Sullivan
That we did? We definitely did use white noise. Yeah, we had a white okay. Yeah.

00;12;13;10 - 00;12;22;25
Harvey Karp
So a lot of people go, that's weird. I don't want to get my kid used to it or dependent upon it. Did you have problems with it? Was it hard to wean your kids or anything like that?

00;12;22;28 - 00;12;26;26
Paul Sullivan
You know, it's a whole house of white noise. It was white noise now.

00;12;26;26 - 00;12;51;09
Harvey Karp
Yeah. So white noise is a new thing. And I mean, grandparents will go, why are you playing that sound? But, you know, it's like a teddy bear sound. It is something that triggers this calming reflex in the child's brain. And of course, it helps them not listen to the passing trucks and planes and whatever. So, it's very, very useful, but it turns out you need the right type of white noise.

00;12;51;12 - 00;13;13;01
Harvey Karp
In other words, as good, not white noise and bad white noise. I don't know if you know that there are two different classes of white noise. So the so white noise is either high pitched and loud or rumbly and low pitch. High pitched sounds are excellent for getting your attention. Screams, sirens, beepers, alarms right? It's very good for sleep.

00;13;13;03 - 00;13;34;18
Harvey Karp
Low pitch rumbles, the sound of the plane to train the car. Very good for sleep, not so good for getting your attention. And so it's important. And what we built into snoot, for example, is it's a rumbly, low pitched sound all night long. But when the child gets upset, it's louder and more and more high pitched, because that imitates what a parent would do and activates calming reflex.

00;13;34;20 - 00;13;42;08
Harvey Karp
So there's a it isn't like a one and done with sound. You have to understand that there are different qualities that have different effects.

00;13;42;11 - 00;14;01;07
Paul Sullivan
Fantastic. Thank you. You know, question three I say we were talking, you know, before we start recording about toddlers and the happiest toddler. And of course, I was joking with you because that seems oxymoronic to have, the happiest toddler. But talk about that because, you know, look, babies are babies, but they can't move. Toddlers can move, but they can't always move very well.

00;14;01;10 - 00;14;17;22
Paul Sullivan
You know, what are the things that that parents get wrong or in a positive way, you know, need to know to create that happiest toddler? But also, again, if we're talking about working parents here, you know, have some joy about parenthood, but also some some peace in their home.

00;14;17;24 - 00;14;29;00
Harvey Karp
Yeah. So it's a pediatrician. We deal with kids who do not want to be with us, right? They don't want the shot. They don't want to take off their clothes. Take your cold hand off of my belly. And so I.

00;14;29;02 - 00;14;40;08
Paul Sullivan
My wife, our pediatrician, says that our youngest, when she was young, he would he would see her and he label that her chart f o and that was her formidable opponent. And so she would wrestle it.

00;14;40;11 - 00;15;09;28
Harvey Karp
Exactly. Well, it turns out I would rather than using force against force, I try to use other methods to build rapport. And it turns out there are a lot of very simple techniques that make young children feel happy, engaged, and, safe. And so I my goal and my reputation and my practice and my community was I was a doctor that could help kids get over doctor phobia.

00;15;10;01 - 00;15;29;10
Harvey Karp
And so there were a lot of very simple techniques, like 20 different techniques that are in the Happiest Toddler book. And the video, and I do videos because a lot of these things, you got to see the quality, like you say, to shush, but does that mean or or, you know, there's subtlety to some of these things.

00;15;29;13 - 00;15;54;19
Harvey Karp
And and so, so with toddlers, the key concept for toddlers is that they're not your little friend. They're not your little buddy. They're not little adults. Basically, they are cavemen. They are frickin primitives. They are uncivilized. And your job between eight months of age and five years of age is to civilize them. So they say please and thank you, wait in line, share their toys and don't pee on the carpet.

00;15;54;21 - 00;16;20;14
Harvey Karp
So so there are technique. So why? Why are they uncivilized? They're uncivilized because of brain development. Now we have two halves of the brain, right? The right half. The left half of the brain kind of looks like a walnut. If you were to peel off the skull. And the left half of the brain is the adult half of the brain, it's patience, logic, problem solving, verbal capability, delayed gratification.

00;16;20;17 - 00;16;46;14
Harvey Karp
Toddlers. Not so good on the left brain. The right brain. It's emotionality. Fight or flight reflex. Bouncing to the music, recognizing a face and a place. They're excellent at that. A nine month old. If you said your nine month old father is sad, they have no freaking clue what you're talking about. But if you go home, they'll come over and hold your knee and comfort you.

00;16;46;14 - 00;17;11;25
Harvey Karp
A nine month old will, so they understand non-verbal communication and the biggest mistake parents make is when you're trying to calm your toddler. You do it with a calm voice you like. Try to. They're in the jungle of their emotions and you're going come out of the jungle. No, you got to go in the jungle and you have to reflect a third of their emotion, not all of their emotion, just a third of their emotion.

00;17;11;25 - 00;17;33;05
Harvey Karp
And your tone of voice, gestures and using repetition. So when your child is upset, you might say something like, you, you, you, you're, oh, you're you're you're mad. You're so you're so mad. And your face is empathic and you're down at their level. And you might have to do that 6 or 8 times. Is that going to work?

00;17;33;05 - 00;17;50;29
Harvey Karp
Every time. But a lot of times they're going to look at you and shake their head. Yes. With the stuck out lower lip. And then you could go, oh, you didn't like that. And you say you, you don't want that anymore. And then your language gets a little bit more coherent and longer, and then ultimately you'll get to normal language.

00;17;51;01 - 00;18;11;16
Harvey Karp
But all of us I mean, you're a writer, Paul. If you were to write in, you know, a scene in a book about someone is is grieving, they just lost the spouse or something. And you go to them and you say, I know that's very unhappy. I can understand why you're looking so sad because you lost your spouse.

00;18;11;24 - 00;18;38;13
Harvey Karp
And that really is one of the most desolate experience. I mean, you're walking away from this person even though the words are right, right. But if you go up to that person, you go, oh, I, oh my, oh my God, I don't, I don't, I don't even know what to say. I just, I can't imagine suddenly you can't even feel that in your own body.

00;18;38;20 - 00;19;01;26
Harvey Karp
But if you read that in a book, it would be gibberish. It wouldn't make any sense. Right? So it turns out that children, young children are emotion up the yin yang. Right. And so all day long, you'll be practicing, I call this toddler is this special type of language. And there are many, many other very simple little techniques that in a day can improve a toddler's behavior.

00;19;01;29 - 00;19;08;16
Paul Sullivan
I love that and I'm hoping you get toddler ease into Google Translate. Do you have that. So if I speak in it. Yeah.

00;19;08;18 - 00;19;13;17
Harvey Karp
Exactly. Right. Yeah. It's a lot of finger gestures.

00;19;13;20 - 00;19;32;24
Paul Sullivan
Question for we've been talking about the happiest baby and talking about the happiest toddler. But you know what about that span from from 5 to 18. And by that I mean I'm super fortunate to have, two teenage daughters with whom I have an excellent relationship with. And people will say people always roll their eyes and say, how is that possible?

00;19;32;24 - 00;19;47;22
Paul Sullivan
And I say, well, I've been fortunate that since they were babies, I was there. I would sit with them, I would put them when they're younger. I put them to bed at, nine times out of ten, I'd fall asleep when I was reading to them in bed, and now I still sit on the bed. And that's not to say that every day is rosy.

00;19;47;22 - 00;20;10;03
Paul Sullivan
And every day they say, oh, dad, you're the greatest. There's lots of eye rolls and all that, but a very solid relationship when you think of, you know, throughout, you know, the decades of your pediatric practice and seeing these kids up until age 18, you know, what were the key things to to help develop happy, if not the happiest, but happy teenagers and young adults.

00;20;10;03 - 00;20;21;13
Paul Sullivan
And, you know, the flip side of that is always, you know, what? If parents get wrong or what do we get wrong? But what what really creates that, that level of security and happiness so that the kid can, can function well as they go off.

00;20;21;14 - 00;20;45;11
Harvey Karp
And that's such a good, important question and obviously such a dilemma in our society today. And, well, you know, you put your finger on one of the important parts, which is being their time availability and not being there with your telephone on, but being there really to listen and talk. And what I would always tell parents is, you know, God gave you two years and one mouth because you should be listening twice as much as you talking.

00;20;45;13 - 00;21;11;14
Harvey Karp
And, and and I teach that to kids also because, so that they can learn to be good listeners because, you know what we talk about love how important love is, unconditional love. But there's something that's more important than unconditional love. And building a healthy person. And that's respect. If you love somebody and you don't respect them, you're going to screw up their minds terribly.

00;21;11;17 - 00;21;38;00
Harvey Karp
If you respect them and you don't love them, that's not the best. But at least you got respect. And so how do you show respect is the next question. And the way you do that is by being present, being available and and honestly, that title race thing where you reflect back someone's feelings, like when I, when your child is upset and she's so mad because she wasn't invited to the birthday party.

00;21;38;00 - 00;22;07;12
Harvey Karp
Right. And you, you could Russian and say, honey, you know, let's go. I'm going to take you to the movies instead. So forget, you know, his friends and I don't even like them. I mean, so I'm not saying it's wrong to do that ultimately. You know, parents like to solve problems, but when you immediately solve a problem, you're implying to your child that they can't solve it themselves and that you don't have confidence in them, and you feel that they're so needy that you immediately have to rescue them.

00;22;07;15 - 00;22;26;13
Harvey Karp
You can live in that discomfort a little bit and go, I don't even know. Wow. I don't know what even what what how did that make you feel? Wait, how did she tell that to you? Did she. Did she did you hear it from the other kid? I mean, explore it a little bit. Don't be in a rush to solve it.

00;22;26;16 - 00;22;47;07
Harvey Karp
And you're going to solve it later on. And that implies respect when it comes with teenagers. So there's another phenomena that you have to understand. Part of respect is allow your kids to call you an idiot and to run away from you because they need to establish their independence and their own, you know, their own sense of self.

00;22;47;10 - 00;23;12;05
Harvey Karp
And so with teenagers all the time, it's like, you know, you know that, you know, the Mark Twain line. When I was 17, I couldn't believe how stupid my old man was. And when I was 22, I couldn't believe how much he had learned in five years. And so, we have to let them rebel from us and have some independence, and yet we still have to set limits.

00;23;12;07 - 00;23;34;14
Harvey Karp
So you know, it's not like, you know, you're the worst parenting the world can have. The car keys. You know, that doesn't work. But we have to give them chores and responsibilities and and money and respect them as they're growing up and advancing those, that sense of we trust their authority.

00;23;34;17 - 00;23;58;14
Paul Sullivan
You know, I love that. And I had somebody just last night, we're driving home separately. My wife called with our oldest daughter in the car, too. So excited that, one of my favorite, musicians is playing, and, it's a Saturday night, and we can go. And my oldest daughter invites herself along, and I was like, I don't want to take you, like, I don't want to take you, like, you know, I'm taking you to plenty of concerts.

00;23;58;14 - 00;24;12;00
Paul Sullivan
You've gone to concerts without me. I don't dare you. And she thought I was joking, and I said, no, this is like the musician that mom and I. You know, early on a relationship. I want to get another couple and have an adult night out. And she turned to me and said, that's not very company of dads of you, now, is it?

00;24;12;07 - 00;24;16;20
Paul Sullivan
I said, I think it's actually very company of dads of this.

00;24;16;22 - 00;24;36;27
Harvey Karp
Well, I mean, but this is another, another lesson which is, you don't have to blind people with the truth, you know what I mean? You could first start by saying, oh, my God, I didn't even think of inviting. I mean, of course you love to go, and I would love to take you, actually. I mean, it's so much fun.

00;24;36;27 - 00;24;50;10
Harvey Karp
We always had fun at the concerts. But you know what? This one time I told mom that I was just going to do it and so you don't have to be quiet like, I don't want to bring you. I say it's a little harsh parenting you you.

00;24;50;13 - 00;24;56;25
Paul Sullivan
For the record, doctor, I didn't say it exactly like that. Okay, give me a little bit of credit here.

00;24;56;28 - 00;25;00;24
Harvey Karp
You're going to end up in the company of one if you keep doing it that way.

00;25;00;27 - 00;25;04;24
Paul Sullivan
So I took it to Katy Perry, a couple weeks ago. Well.

00;25;04;27 - 00;25;07;01
Harvey Karp
That's a good that we had given that.

00;25;07;04 - 00;25;18;13
Paul Sullivan
Katy was like flying over us. And I was like, and I'm taking her to some subsidiary name tape. McCrea, a Canadian pop star. And a couple weeks and it'll be our second time, seeing her. So. So I've got, you know.

00;25;18;13 - 00;25;20;16
Harvey Karp
Okay, you got it here? Yes.

00;25;20;18 - 00;25;28;25
Paul Sullivan
She said cash in the bag. I got cash in the bank. But, doctor, that that leads a nicely to our fifth and final question, because, again.

00;25;29;01 - 00;25;33;20
Harvey Karp
You know, subject areas and so and so. Yeah.

00;25;33;22 - 00;26;05;00
Paul Sullivan
And maybe your favorite. Got it. No. Is it the fifth? The final question is we're all about helping families fulfill their full potential, about lead dads. You know, stepping out in the community and at work about supporting working moms in the office or in the community. And so when you think about this, as you look at that, that family unit, like the happiest family unit in the successful families that you've seen over the years with kids, what's your advice for working parents and fathers in particular today?

00;26;05;03 - 00;26;32;17
Harvey Karp
And man, oh, man, I mean, you know, we call it the sandwich generation, right? People are are caught between their cotton advice. Right. They got all these kid responsibilities and even responsibilities with their parents, maybe, and work responsibilities and community responsibilities. I mean, it's a really tough one. So number one, parents, any parents should be patting themselves on the back for doing, you know, for getting through the day because it is not easy.

00;26;32;17 - 00;26;49;02
Harvey Karp
And like I said in the beginning, you should have five nannies your grandma, your aunt, your older sister, everybody helping you. That's the way it always was up until a hundred years ago, when we suddenly had the bright idea of like, moving to Chicago or I'm going to move to New York, you know? And won't that be fun?

00;26;49;04 - 00;27;13;06
Harvey Karp
Not realizing how important it was to have a family, you know, by your side. So, I mean, people have to make priorities right now. We have too many options and by that I mean social media and all of these other things that are that are distracting us, television and whatnot. So it's a matter of making priorities, making time.

00;27;13;08 - 00;27;36;15
Harvey Karp
It is. There is a sense, there is a concept of quality time, even if you don't have quantity time. So when you do have that time together, you you take her out to Katy Perry and it's just the two of you and you hear about what's going on at school or, or that night time telling the stories. Those are that's really important to, when you're together, be present, be there.

00;27;36;18 - 00;28;01;22
Harvey Karp
And when you can't be there, cop to it and say, you know, I wish I could, but, but parents ultimately have to make the decision of when to turn off the electronics and really make the investment to be there with their kids. Going outside is incredibly important. Nature has something that is a vitamin, you know, that is a nurturance for children as well as adults.

00;28;01;22 - 00;28;29;03
Harvey Karp
The green color is very, very calming to your nervous system. And for children to be out in nature, it puts them in an environment that feels right sized for them. I'll give you just one tiny example about this toddlers. We make toddlers live in a house. Up until a thousand years ago, toddlers live in a teepee or cave or a little cut, and as soon as they walk up, they go out.

00;28;29;03 - 00;28;48;21
Harvey Karp
They pee on the grass. They run after the chickens and the dogs. They roll down the hill. They look for the five year old because they're always running after the kids who are just a little bit older. We think it's normal to be in a house or an apartment flat floor, flat walls, flat ceiling, boring. So boring for kids.

00;28;48;23 - 00;29;07;09
Harvey Karp
And if they start acting up, we think they have attention deficit. No, they have, they have nature deficit. They need to get outside. And so the more we can do that and spend time with our kids and be in an environment that is not so sterile, that's something. And again, we don't have a lot of time to do it.

00;29;07;09 - 00;29;24;04
Harvey Karp
So you have to kind of plan it, put it on the calendar, like kids look forward to it. But that's what children remember. And what they hang on to is like, my dad would do this with me. And it's a it's a package. It's a gift that you're giving kids.

00;29;24;06 - 00;29;37;25
Paul Sullivan
Doctor Harvey Karp, creator of Snoo, Happiest baby, happiest toddler. I'm going to go out on a limb here. Probably the happiest pediatrician I've ever spoken to. Thank you for being my guest today on the Company Dads podcast. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

00;29;37;28 - 00;29;41;19
Harvey Karp
By the pleasure. Really love your work. Well, thanks.

00;29;41;21 - 00;29;59;15
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Company of Dads podcast. Really appreciate you tuning in week after week to only use this moment here to thank the people who make it possible. Number one, of course, Helder Mira, who is our podcast editor. We also have Skip Terry, home to many of you know from Lead Diaries.

00;29;59;15 - 00;30;22;19
Paul Sullivan
He's taken over our social media. Terry Brennan is helping us with our audience development, and Emily Servant is there, each and every day helping with the web development and can't do any of this without, an amazing board, of advisors. So I just want to say thank you to all of you who help. And I want to say thank you to everyone who listens.

00;30;22;19 - 00;30;26;03
Paul Sullivan
And, hopefully you'll tune in again next week. Thanks so much.