EP153: No More Ghosting: Building Trust, Community, and Confident Dads

Interview with David Homan / Founder of Orchestrated Connecting

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

What if the secret to strong parent communities isn’t perfection, but integrity, vulnerability, and follow-through? David Holman is the author of Orchestrating Connection and founder of a decade-old community built on one rule: only surround yourself with people you’d trust to watch your kids. As a divorced father of two, David shares how vulnerability can actually build confidence, especially for dads who feel pressure to “know it all.” He opens up about support networks, single fatherhood, follow-up etiquette, and the lessons he learned from a dad who always showed up.

---

Get our free newsletter covering all things fatherhood delivered straight to your inbox: https://thecompanyofdads.com/thedad/

Transcript

00;00;00;08 - 00;00;21;06
David Homan
And so when I see single dads, divorced dads, widowed dads with their children, I see so many people of such great concern as if they can't handle it. And I will often go up and just talk with them like a normal person. And we will often be really easygoing, capable dads who just happen to be the one in charge.

00;00;21;09 - 00;00;42;02
David Homan
But it's really hard because when we think about how to form community around this, we're tied into who we work with, who our kids play with, where they go to school. So it is harder to find until you do the thing that I preach in my book and I say in every event, which is it takes nothing to be vulnerable if you know that that can be a strength.

00;00;42;05 - 00;00;57;27
David Homan
And for many men, it's hard to admit what you don't know as a parent, because there's such judgment compared to moms who oftentimes also don't know, but we just assume do.

00;00;57;29 - 00;01;32;14
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. We're focused on lead dads, working moms, and how small changes at home or work can have a big impact on their lives. Each episode promises to deliver actionable advice on some area of concern at home or at work. Short. Direct. Again. Actionable. Five questions, five answers. Now, if there's anything that parents worry about, its community having it at home, having it at work, knowing who in their community or their network that they can actually rely on.

00;01;32;14 - 00;01;53;14
Paul Sullivan
If there's one thing we hate, or I'll speak for myself, it's being ghosted. And so I'm super excited today to have as our guest, David Homan, who has become a friend of mine over the past couple of years, and he is the anti ghost who I don't think he could give somebody, if he had to. And we're here to talk because he just has a new book out called.

00;01;53;16 - 00;02;25;17
Paul Sullivan
Here it is. Right there called Orchestrating Connection How to Build Purposeful Community in a Tribal World. And I've been a member I, you know, 2 or 3 years now. I remember clear as day, when somebody first told me about David and asked me if I wanted to get involved. I remember my first call with David. And as a lead dad who lives out in the Connecticut suburbs, I pretty much remember every event I've gone to in New York because it's a it's a heavy lift, a big ask for me to get in the city late at night.

00;02;25;20 - 00;02;41;03
Paul Sullivan
And they have all been worthwhile. And this book to sell a bestselling book distills a lot of the wisdom, that I've gleaned for and more from, from event. So, David Homan, welcome to the Company Dads podcast.

00;02;41;03 - 00;02;43;10
David Homan
Thank you Paul. I am so honored to be here.

00;02;43;11 - 00;03;05;25
Paul Sullivan
Question one, is about some of these community rules. And as I said, I remember this clear as day, a guy named Michael Lair. He and I were playing golf, and I knew him through my previous life at the New York Times. And and he was saying, I've got this guy that, I want you to meet. And I said, great, you know, and he said, but, you know, he's got rules.

00;03;05;25 - 00;03;33;11
Paul Sullivan
And I said, what are you talking about? Like, like I got three kids. I know, I think it's two about rules, but the rule that always, you know, trips people up. And I love the story of two rules, but I'll talk about the first one first. And so the question first question is why did you build a community with the rule that you only want people in that community, that you would leave your kids with?

00;03;33;14 - 00;03;48;14
David Homan
You know, I wanted that rule. And when I started it, to be clear, I had one child. So it's become the plural. Since my, second one, Max, was born to be horrible. If it just stayed, it's like leave my kid with. But I. I pretend the other one doesn't matter as much, and they both do as my dad.

00;03;48;14 - 00;04;19;16
David Homan
But I always say every kid I have is my favorite. Yeah. You know, I wanted to know that it was this, like, when when that mutual friend Michael, who I just saw the other week, he understands, but he doesn't necessarily convey to you all that his reputation in my community and his ability to maintain his membership, which there's no paid membership, it's just the the choice to stay in it is contingent on only introducing me to extraordinarily high integrity givers.

00;04;19;18 - 00;04;42;00
David Homan
So, you know, there's many people you could lend your car to for I am they needed to go help their mother. You could cook dinner with you. You could be stuck in an elevator with like in multiple cultures. We have so many different ideas of what trust is. But as a parent, true trust is in a pinch. Something has to happen to you're not just near your neighbor that you've done this with before.

00;04;42;03 - 00;05;03;10
David Homan
Who would you call and who would drop everything to help you with no questions asked, no timelines. And my my test a decade ago was what happens if you build an entire community where the membership and the engagement is based on understanding that risk from the very beginning.

00;05;03;12 - 00;05;14;20
David Homan
And reacts that way, and then everyone gets it when every single conversation in that room has purpose and intent. Because you know the filter to be there.

00;05;14;23 - 00;05;39;05
Paul Sullivan
I love this rule, and I think it's so fascinating because it's not like you have these events with a bunch of of goody two shoes. You have these events with a bunch of really interesting people with interesting lives, and they have that high integrity. And I think of, you know, one guy who lives down the street from me, my wife and I would both call him in a second to take care of, our kids.

00;05;39;07 - 00;05;57;14
Paul Sullivan
And he, he served, ten months in, federal prison for, financial crimes. And so, like, I wouldn't necessarily, give him my money to invest with him, but I think of him, as the most loving, caring guy. And it sounds so strange to say somebody who's a convicted felon has integrity, but he has high integrity.

00;05;57;14 - 00;06;16;29
Paul Sullivan
And it's it makes me at least think in a different way, where there are plenty of people who I think are perfectly nice. And as you said, I led my car to. But I don't necessarily know. I would say, hey, can you take care of my my kids? And, you know, the second part of that question is when you think of that, because what standard does that set?

00;06;16;29 - 00;06;31;10
Paul Sullivan
And do you ever have people who say, I don't know if this is for me or, you know, what do you mean exactly by, you know, leave your kids with me? Does that prompt, you know, questions or pushback from people?

00;06;31;15 - 00;06;50;28
David Homan
Oh, yeah, I mean, I have people admit they're actually they weren't great parents. And now that they're empty nesters, they're wishing they did it differently. I got other people. Sometimes they call themselves childless. Or what would they call me now? Like crazy cat ladies. And they, they're nervous because they don't. They never taken care of a child.

00;06;51;00 - 00;07;10;05
David Homan
But it's not about whether you would just be a great parent. It's how many people make that cut in your life. Yeah. Because that neighbor that you mentioned down the street, like, yeah, might have made a mistake in the past, but how do you show up now? How do you show up for people and how accountable are you to do what you say you're going to do?

00;07;10;08 - 00;07;33;24
David Homan
And then I always try to qualify. This is not about having everyone be the best angel or as you said, like goody two shoes on the planet. I want people to treat relationships this way because most people don't. And since I had kids, my entire perspective on what trust is changed because I had so many people who looked great on paper and failed, they failed to follow up.

00;07;34;00 - 00;08;06;04
David Homan
They actually went out to get me under very subtle pretenses. But if you are stepping up to that ethos, that idea that you were in this community because how you acted is to a higher standard. What I found now running a decade old, purposeful, intentional community, everyone adheres to that standard because they choose to. They may not be that perfect person in other walks of their life, but they will 100% be so in an orchestrated event around other orchestrated members.

00;08;06;04 - 00;08;24;17
David Homan
Or certainly when I or you or anyone else who's part of this community as something that they offer and say they'll do, you do it. And that's what you expect of somebody parenting your kids. What you will. You watch my kids for three hours? It's not two hours. Then you got busy. It's not. I dropped them off early.

00;08;24;17 - 00;08;32;26
David Homan
They'll be fine waiting at the stoop for those, like. It's like. No, like you say, you would do it and you did it. And the kids were better for it.

00;08;32;28 - 00;08;53;05
Paul Sullivan
Because the second part of, if I remember correctly, of the sort of the two questions, the second question is really, or a requirement, I guess I should say, is that you follow up with people within a certain number of days. Correct? It's not like if somebody asks you for something, even if you can't deliver that thing, you don't go them.

00;08;53;05 - 00;08;57;15
Paul Sullivan
You don't leave them hanging. And is that am I remembering correctly that.

00;08;57;18 - 00;09;22;29
David Homan
Yeah. So there so there's a larger there's a larger guideline which is in the book called My Mantra. But the one you're pointing out is the one people sort of cringe at the most because there's, there's, you know, seven different rules within that etiquette. But being responsive within a certain timeline. So the time being responsive within within a certain timeline makes people cringe because maybe they can't adhere to it.

00;09;23;02 - 00;09;40;24
David Homan
And my point is, if somebody is, you know, somebody calls you up, they ask you for a favor and you do it for them. Are you really so busy? You can't get back to that person, especially if it's an introduction and follow up with that a few days. I'm about to do this. I'm about to go on a road trip to New Hampshire with my family.

00;09;40;27 - 00;10;06;21
David Homan
My auto reply says, I'm really busy and I'm going to be hopefully eating ice cream and like going into lakes and all the rest and, barbecuing and night of everything that's lol. So eggplant hot dogs, sausage, long beans, whatever it might be. Yeah, corn as well. But if you were going to do a favor for me and you sent it on Friday, I'm going to be sure I get back to that person and say, here's what I'm doing.

00;10;06;24 - 00;10;26;29
David Homan
Any other ideas of what to grill? That's long. I'll really get back to you, when I when my kids start middle school and September 3rd and fourth. But it doesn't take that much to be responsive. Yeah, but it takes so much away that you can never get back if you go somebody or don't make them feel like a priority, especially when you need something from them.

00;10;27;01 - 00;10;44;00
David Homan
Why set up a situation where people are questioning your respect of the situation from the beginning based on responding? You know, too late because I will be very sure they responded to somebody else quicker, right.

00;10;44;02 - 00;11;07;25
Paul Sullivan
I love it. Question two we know you know, the third of fathers in America who are the dads? You know, a big part of the 18% of fathers in America are divorced, widowed or otherwise single. You're a divorced father of two. You have, another, daughter, through your partner that you're very involved with.

00;11;07;27 - 00;11;31;21
Paul Sullivan
What do you think of, you know, a purposeful community and, you know, where you get support. And this is absolutely not a plug for the company. It has. But when you think of personal community and where you get support, you know, do you have one as a father and how have you found those men in your neighborhood, in your city, in your line of work, who you can reach out to directly?

00;11;31;24 - 00;11;47;20
David Homan
Now, let's say, you know, I'm thinking back to when my kids were a lot younger. I mean, they're still young, eight and 11, but it's not like I'm pushing them around in a stroller and that little skateboard scooter on the back of it that somehow you can't walk as you push that and you get like, you know, mom arm's from holding the kids all the time.

00;11;47;23 - 00;12;14;05
David Homan
Dad arms are from one arm pushing two children. When you have two or more on, some sort of stroller. The thing is, you don't really need those people in the context of school unless you're vulnerable and curious. But oftentimes, if you're a lead dad, you just don't meet them because there's fewer of us showing up for pickup, doing drop off, traveling alone with their kids.

00;12;14;08 - 00;12;35;08
David Homan
And so when I see single dads, divorced dads, widowed dads with their children, I see so many people of such great concern as if they can't handle it. And I will often go up and just talk with them like a normal person. And we will often be really easygoing, capable dads who just happen to be the one in charge.

00;12;35;11 - 00;12;56;03
David Homan
But it's really hard because when we think about how to form community around this, we're tied into who we work with, who our kids play with, where they go to school. So it is harder to find until you do the thing that I preach in my book and I say in every event, which is it takes nothing to be vulnerable if you know that that can be a strength.

00;12;56;06 - 00;13;22;23
David Homan
And for many men, it's hard to admit what you don't know as a parent, because there's such judgment compared to moms who oftentimes also don't know, but we just assume do because of those stereotypes. So how do you build vulnerability? To become a confident parent is always the goal. And I remember even as I was, you know, in couples therapy and that afterwards, talking with other parents about being a divorced dad, no one ever thought I was.

00;13;22;23 - 00;13;33;01
David Homan
It confident in how I could parent my kids. And the more we can gain confidence sort of each other, we build that real company of doubts in every community.

00;13;33;01 - 00;13;53;20
Paul Sullivan
When, you know, we're talking before I start recording about, when we first talk years ago about a mutual friend of ours named good who played the NFL for a decade, and now I do as a second podcast, I ever did. The first was a, Professor Naji was a second. And I got to know Naji because we spent a lot of time outside of Jacksonville, Florida.

00;13;53;20 - 00;14;12;17
Paul Sullivan
That was his last team. He's there and he's got, two young daughters, and he is, Lee dad. But almost to a point in a solo parent, he pretty much is, is there, you know, all the time with his girls. And when we met, we connected immediately. And what people don't know is I know nothing about football.

00;14;12;17 - 00;14;30;18
Paul Sullivan
Like I was never going to pester him and say, you know, remember when you did this player that play? Because I didn't know. And but I love I just connected with him and I liked him so much as a man and as a father. And when he came on the podcast, it was wonderful because, you know, the NFL is the thing that everybody in America watches.

00;14;30;18 - 00;14;53;13
Paul Sullivan
It's, you know, 95 of the top hundred shows or NFL games and having that connection with him as a man who was divorced, who was vulnerable, who is doing his best with his daughter, but was also this sort of archetype of hyper masculinity. There's nothing more masculine in America than, a guy who plays in the NFL for ten years and wins a Super Bowl sacking Tom Brady.

00;14;53;13 - 00;15;24;12
Paul Sullivan
I mean, that that's the pinnacle. But like you said, I think the most important thing and, you know, you do so well at connecting people, you know, across the board through all kinds of, you know, walks of life. But the most important thing is that that vulnerability. And when you think about it and what you talk about in the book, how can you encourage people and fathers in particular that vulnerability is a strength, that it's not, a weakness that, you know, putting yourself out there can actually help them going forward.

00;15;24;15 - 00;15;44;00
David Homan
Now, I'll just echo what you said about Najee, because I love him. I have such respect for how he's led his life. What has changed in it and what he does now with a close mutual friend, Jonathan, in his company, because doji was one of those guys that just like walking to the boardroom at the Eagles when he was playing there and said, I'd like to learn the business of football.

00;15;44;03 - 00;16;04;02
David Homan
I remember him telling the story about how the the owners of the team were like, well, what do you mean? And he didn't realize he was the first player to ever walk into their room and not just want to play, but want to understand how football works. So he's always had that curiosity. And that's the thing, right? This isn't just as a dad about like saying, I'm not really sure how to manage bedtime.

00;16;04;02 - 00;16;21;26
David Homan
My kids no longer want me to read to them, but then they sneak their phone into their book. Or like there's always examples of what happens to become a confident parent is to understand how you process this, how you react, and to know you're not alone in this. And the only way to know you're not alone. Because we all have doubts.

00;16;21;26 - 00;16;47;03
David Homan
No matter how masculine we might pretend to be. I mean, not me, but other people maybe, who really play play sports for the rest. It always comes down to if you're confident in yourself and confident and purposeful, that you really want to be the best dad you can, then what do you have to lose? Asking with curiosity how other people manage something you're not sure how to manage?

00;16;47;05 - 00;17;11;06
David Homan
What if that gave you confidence by hearing from others? They're also struggling because when in the end of this, right when we grow up, we see our parents, whatever the similar situation, we see them as these amazing sort of gods that know everything and do everything ever are lucky to have competent parents. And if we don't, we grew up swearing we will never be like them.

00;17;11;08 - 00;17;33;15
David Homan
Then the minute we have children, we either become them purposefully or accidentally, and we fight against all those same instincts, not realizing our parents were questioning what they did every moment they made that choice. But they never told us. And now we do the same. So I bring that up because what harm is it to go to some other dad?

00;17;33;17 - 00;17;58;12
David Homan
They say, here's what I'm struggling with. How have you managed it? And if that data in any way can say back to you, here's what I've done or I can't help you, it sucks for me too, right? You're no longer talking in some banal, pedestrian way about being a parent. You're talking about the responsibility you took on how much it means to you, and how much better you want to be at it, because there's no such thing as perfection when you're a parent.

00;17;58;14 - 00;18;20;00
Paul Sullivan
I love that because I often think, like in saying, I don't know, or I'm not quite sure that's actually helpful to the guy asking the question, because then he realizes, okay, I'm not alone. That's that's a tough question. I don't know the answer to that one either. You know, that does two. Question three and, you know, a lot of fun fact about you.

00;18;20;03 - 00;18;36;24
Paul Sullivan
You know, you dad was a professor. You grew up in a university town. I'm thinking of this as you tell me where you're headed for this weekend. That university town happened to be Gainesville, Florida, home of the University of Florida, where it's probably, you know, we're talking at the end of summer, probably about 98 or 100 degrees.

00;18;36;24 - 00;19;03;15
Paul Sullivan
Right now. You're going up to New Hampshire, where the water in the lake will be about 60 degrees. But when you think back, not just growing up as a son of a professor growing up in, university town, but when you think about, you know, the example of your dad set for you that are the ones that you really remember and you've wanted to, you know, recreate for your own kids and share with other dads, what are some of those examples?

00;19;03;17 - 00;19;27;10
David Homan
You know, more than anything, right? Because I didn't understand how lucky I was until I got out of high school, into college and then, like, you know, my more immature years in my 20s, in the 30s in New York, and I actually was always mature, just sounded good to say, immature, because I had this example for my father, somebody who was always a child, yet always responsible.

00;19;27;12 - 00;19;43;24
David Homan
And more than that, I didn't understand. Like my my parents, both of them are fun, like all my friends when I played board games with them and see them, people will drop by my hometown I went to college with to have dinner with them when I am not there. And more than that, because this is really about my dad.

00;19;43;24 - 00;20;05;11
David Homan
Like my dad showed up when no other dad showed up elementary school, he would wait outside instead of just dropping me off until the entire class A story, he would show up for lunch, which meant in elementary school you were cool and you could pick for other kids and go, go get outside. And he could bring you food because you know, school cafeterias in the 80s, I don't think they'd gotten better.

00;20;05;11 - 00;20;29;01
David Homan
They but they were definitely not that great then. And I never understood because I was so lucky to have him there, that he was the only one, especially if the dads. In my entire life I have lived in the shadow of a man who I knew would always be there for me and always showed up even as we worked through a lot of our, you know, I was really he was a really great dad till I was 11, then I was 15.

00;20;29;02 - 00;21;01;26
David Homan
He was still acting like I was 11, 25, actually, like I was 11. We reached this really amazing flow now as we both matured in his career, now just retired and mine and the the peak of it and I up for my kids. No matter how tired I am from launching a book, building a startup, running a global network, traveling because I'm not going to be the dad that didn't show up or have my kids think it was so great that, you know, my dad came today, this month.

00;21;01;28 - 00;21;32;10
David Homan
And so more than anything, it's that and I know it's hard with work, but I will tell you now and this is, you know, 11 years in to being unapologetically a parent, first I will say to people, I can't meet you Tuesday. I have to go watch my kids school play rehearsal. And they go, why? It was like, because during the show and when they they don't make them and I can't really hear what they're saying, but during the rehearsal, I can peek in and I can hear it and I will have alpha males, not alpha dads.

00;21;32;17 - 00;21;53;28
David Homan
Yeah. First, be upset that I chose not to take a call with them or a meeting with them. And as they understand, as they get to know me unapologetically and my children, first, they'll say to me, hey, I can't beat this week taking my kid to the soccer tournament. Yeah, I know what that's like. But again, how hard is it to say to anyone else that could be judging you?

00;21;54;04 - 00;21;58;23
David Homan
This is my priority. Why isn't it yours? And that's the example my dad set for me.

00;21;58;28 - 00;22;15;06
Paul Sullivan
I mean, it's very hard. And this way. Talk about the company of dads, about, you know, being open and honest with your work calendar, putting actual things down there, not oh, oh, but putting what you're doing. And we found that those guys who are vulnerable, who take the risk and do that, it always has a positive ripple effect.

00;22;15;12 - 00;22;35;28
Paul Sullivan
And that positive ripple effect is how the parents in the organization realize, okay, I guess I can do that too. Or I guess I don't have to try to multitask and be on a call while I'm watching my kids, you know, play rehearsal. So I think it's so important. David and kind of ties into in a question for, you're a busy guy.

00;22;36;01 - 00;22;56;09
Paul Sullivan
And you've always been a busy guy. You've always traveled, and it seems like you're getting even busier. And a lot of men, who are what we call event dads, not lead dads, but those events will sort of throw themselves into work and say that I'm a provider. And the word provider means I must earn money. And to earn money, I must be at work as long as I can, I must travel.

00;22;56;17 - 00;23;28;02
Paul Sullivan
You found a great way to work. Smartly, efficiently, yet still travel. Your books a bestseller. Still, you know, get out and have orchestrated connecting, event in person in different cities around the country. I think you went to London last year. That's huge. What are the tips from what you've been doing? What are the tips from what you've been doing that you would share with other dads who want to be lead dads, who have super busy careers but want to carve out that time to, to to be there for that, that play rehearsal.

00;23;28;04 - 00;23;47;04
David Homan
So I'll tell you the first thing, which is the scary thing one of my friends taught me before I had kids. And like, she leans close and she goes, they're watching you. You can when you don't think you're even when you don't like your parenting. And I took that to heart because that's great, as I can show up when I travel with my kids.

00;23;47;04 - 00;24;12;27
David Homan
Paul, if I'm nervous, I'm going to miss a slide and I'm mouthing under my breath or I'm upset at somebody like American Airlines for delaying my flight 14 hours with children and booking me through Albuquerque to go to Atlanta, like, oh my, my kids have are studying me. So your kid or kids are studying you. So do you want to set that example for them of the provider never being available to be a parent?

00;24;13;00 - 00;24;36;24
David Homan
That work life balance is always imbalanced towards work. That missing eight of the ten soccer games is acceptable for the ten games season, because that's the example you're setting. And then you know what? Children follow suit. And then that's the example they set next. So when I say be unapologetic about it, be unapologetic about it. Make choices, understand that.

00;24;36;24 - 00;24;55;24
David Homan
Why are you going to be an active dad? There's no such thing as finding balance. But more than anything, right? Like my kids know what being a connector is, what being an author is, what building a startup is. They ask me what happens at my events and who I helped. I brought them into my life as opposed to saying, here's my work, I'm doing my work now.

00;24;55;24 - 00;25;12;24
David Homan
What are we doing in the park? And I've been vulnerable with them about how hard it is, how challenging it is. You know, you spend two years working on a book and get it out there. And the day that I got the USA today note from my publisher that it became a bestseller. Like I was in tears that night.

00;25;13;02 - 00;25;37;23
David Homan
Tears of joy, to be clear. But my kids were with me for that moment. I didn't celebrate it either. Out with people who are part of the book. They were part of it. Yeah. So number one advice besides, you know, they're always watching you if your kids are part of that, it's really going to be hard to not find balance with them because they're they're going to talk back.

00;25;37;23 - 00;26;01;28
David Homan
They're going to ask what they can join. They're going to they're going to question whether you need to do everything. And you might be able to say to somebody, you work with an executive coach, you know, yeah, it's necessary. I need to be on the road ten weeks this fall, but that doesn't fly when you're saying it to your real bosses, which are your children, because they're going to, you know, my my daughter's like, well, I know you go to Austin and Dallas and you do it really quick, like, is that healthy for you?

00;26;01;28 - 00;26;20;26
David Homan
And I go, no, honestly, it's really hard to fly to Austin, do one of that drive to Dallas to to that fly home. But I'm not going to miss the soccer game. And then they say, well, I'm really glad you came back. It means a lot for Max to see you at the game. The stress goes away. Yeah.

00;26;20;26 - 00;26;32;16
David Homan
The the balance is back to the balance that should be there, which is if you choose to have children, you need to make a choice to make them the priority no matter what the circumstance.

00;26;32;18 - 00;26;59;01
Paul Sullivan
So good. David, fifth and final question, and I think about and I you're a very purposeful guy. So, I'm confident this is no coincidence, but all of your events I've been to, they're all diverse, you know, gender wise, interesting people. I never walk into an event and say, oh, everyone is just like me. I say, everybody is interesting and different, and it pushes all of us out of our comfort zone.

00;26;59;01 - 00;27;21;21
Paul Sullivan
And I think that's a real, you know, credit to to what you are creating. And it's remarkable. But when you think about gender equality and gender equity, particularly as it comes to parenting, sure, there's plenty of stuff where where dads don't step up, but there's also research on, you know, maternal gatekeeping where they're not quite allowed into certain spaces.

00;27;21;27 - 00;27;42;02
Paul Sullivan
When you think about how a lead dad, an active dad, a super involved father, how he can start to bring about change, in the way he connects as a father in his community and the way he leads others as a father in his company. What are some of the suggestions that that come to mind?

00;27;42;04 - 00;28;08;06
David Homan
So every circumstance is going to be different. So let me just break this down into a few parts of my experience. Right. So I'm a business owner. I set the tone before running my own businesses. I ran two other businesses. The one was a film company, one was a philanthropy, and I set a tone that family and health come first for everyone who works with me and for everyone for whom I work, even at a board level or an investor level.

00;28;08;08 - 00;28;31;08
David Homan
And again, unapologetic about that. So anyone who has that power to set that tone, if you're not doing it, you're making a choice to say imbalance is okay. Prioritizing work about family is okay, and that was your choice. But then it's your fault. For everyone else, having that imbalance or feeling like they can't take the kid to the doctor in the middle of a work day and they have to figure out a way to make it up to you.

00;28;31;11 - 00;28;53;16
David Homan
Why? I know there's work, but I know things have timelines and deadlines. But if you create a culture or an environment where somebody feels guilty for trying to raise their kid who broke their arm getting to a hospital and score like, what type of environment or exam? 47. And for everyone who's in a situation that doesn't have that type of power, right, you can't rail against it.

00;28;53;16 - 00;29;14;20
David Homan
But you can certainly ask of curiosity in advance how somebody would want you to respond to this. Would they make an honorable choice. Can you ask again with curiosity? You know, listen, like I understand this is how your company works. This is how my job works, whatever type of job it might be. When I when not. Yes. When I need to prioritize my kids.

00;29;14;22 - 00;29;34;16
David Homan
How do you stand on this? Because what we can do first is, is asked as an example. And then when we lead with that, we don't have to deal with the backlash behind it so that, you know, for the party, especially around workforce, like I think is the only way to approach it because we're up against this world of you have to work, you have to do the hours.

00;29;34;23 - 00;29;56;24
David Homan
Somebody else can take care of it. And that has been one of the most damaging things to dads as a whole. But when you set forth in your community, you have to have confidence and humility. Almost every time I fly. And this still happens to this day when I fly with my two kids alone, I am judged by nearly every parent there who's a woman.

00;29;56;29 - 00;30;24;14
David Homan
And oftentimes some of the couples my kids are going to be around rambunctious. My kids are going to be loud. My I'm not going to be able to handle it. And I'll tell you, I have changed diapers for other parents, especially the moms. I'm the middle of an airport floor or while a plane is flying. I have like pulled out of whatever suit I'm wearing for a fancy event when I'm traveling some whites to give to somebody who needs it for their kids.

00;30;24;17 - 00;30;44;16
David Homan
I always have several different snacks on me that are kid friendly. Not or not, that I will hand to somebody else. One time on an escalator, this guy was holding his daughter's hand going down, and she twisted too hard and slipped, and she cut her forehead right here and in the span of about 18 seconds, my daughter had taken out the Band-Aid from her backpack.

00;30;44;16 - 00;31;04;23
David Homan
I opened it, it was on his daughter's forehead, and he got to the bottom of the escalator. And these two moms that were looking up were like, oh my God. Like, God has come back to this world again, because a dad was able to do that. And I looked at them and I was like, it took me longer than I thought.

00;31;04;25 - 00;31;26;29
David Homan
Because in every situation, you're gonna face it because we live in a world that's had an imbalance of who are the caretakers, and it's not right for families to stay this way. And for the single dad with divorced dads. We have no choice. We can get support, but we're the parent. And the same is true for single moms or any way that we parent.

00;31;27;02 - 00;31;53;06
David Homan
We're gonna have stigma in a society that thinks we have to conform to what a family unit has to be, and what a dad should do versus a mom. Except for the reason you became an alpha dad, the reason you built a company of dads all comes down to that story you told me years ago about how you were the second call when your kid needed something at school, and they called your wife first because of course, the mom has.

00;31;53;08 - 00;32;15;27
David Homan
Why? That is a mentality in this day and age is a lot of who I love and appreciate what you set out not to correct, but to inspire people around. All of this is a choice. It's a choice to judge somebody. It's a choice to react to it. It's a choice to be humble about it. But more than that, it's a choice to be apathetic to it or how you're being treated.

00;32;15;29 - 00;32;34;14
David Homan
I don't have that anymore in my life. Not just because they wrote a book about purposefulness and intention. I'm exhausted by people judging me when I am an absolutely confident and great bear it, and I should be proud to say it. And I will still learn every day how to better parent my kids and stay calm and do what I needed.

00;32;34;17 - 00;32;55;23
David Homan
Now, more than anything, get the Nintendo Switch out of my eight year old towns because Mario Kart World is incredible. And but the point is, it's a struggle. It's a choice I made and how I react to it is a choice. And who I have around me is a choice. And we make excuses every single day. And this is a major point near the end of the book.

00;32;55;25 - 00;33;25;18
David Homan
We make choices every single day as to who is around us, who influences us and what didn't happen. That's not fair that we deserve morals. And my point is, it's a choice to surround yourself with people who will give as you give to them, as opposed to take or judge you. You can't take all the parents in your kid's school, certainly, but you can choose how you interact with them and what standards you set, whether they like you or not.

00;33;25;21 - 00;33;40;25
Paul Sullivan
David Homan, bestselling author of Orchestrating Connection. I love being able to say that about you, my friend and the founder of Orchestrating Connecting. Amazing guy, amazing dad. Thank you so much for being on the Company Dads podcast.

00;33;40;27 - 00;33;44;17
David Homan
Thank you Paul. Thank you everyone for listening.

00;33;44;20 - 00;34;04;29
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Company of Dads podcast. I really appreciate you tuning in week after week to only use this moment here to thank the people who make it possible. Number one, of course, Helder Mira, who is our podcast editor. We also have Skip Terry home to many of you know from Lead Diaries he's taken over our social media.

00;34;04;29 - 00;34;25;20
Paul Sullivan
Terry Brennan is helping us with our audience development. And Emily Servant is there, each and every day helping with the web development and can't do any of this without, an amazing board, of advisors. So I just want to say thank you to all of you who help. And I want to say thank you to everyone who listens.

00;34;25;20 - 00;34;29;03
Paul Sullivan
And, hopefully you'll tune in again next week. Thanks so much.