Low Energy Availability, RED-S & Recovery: Nutrition for Active Moms in All Seasons — with HEATHER CAPLAN

Ever lost your period, struggled with food, or felt completely misunderstood as a pregnant or postpartum athlete? You are not alone.

In this episode, I sit down with Heather Caplan—registered dietitian, running coach, and co-founder of @lane9project—to have a real, unfiltered conversation about REDs (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport), amenorrhea, and what recovery actually looks like.

We cover:
▶ Getting your period back (not just for fertility!)
▶ Disordered eating in the nutrition field
▶ How Lane 9 Project is helping women find better care
▶ The hormonal rollercoaster of postpartum
▶ Identity shifts as an athlete through pregnancy and beyond

Whether you're a runner, lifter, new mom, or clinician who works with active women, this conversation will hit home. Because you can be strong, athletic, and supported—without sacrificing your health.

Time Stamps

1:00 Introduction

6:30 when your own profession falls short

11:25 solving problems that you’re also dealing with

16:30 starting a private practice

20:50 dietitians and disorder eating

24:26 starting Lane 9

27:17 helping people through Lane 9

30:45 fertility and REDs

34:40 getting the care you need

40:32 breastfeeding and a returning cycle

44:30 realistic postpartum expectations

53:14 rapid fire questions

CONNECT WITH CARRIE

IG: https://www.instagram.com/carriepagliano/

Website: https://carriepagliano.com

CONNECT WITH HEATHER:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/lane9project/

Website: lane9project.org

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I had a few people email me saying, Oh, when I was studying nutrition in college, I had an eating disorder, and one of my mentors or a preceptor or advisor or all of the above said, like, make sure you never admit this because then people won't trust you.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

And I was like, what? You're listening to the Active Mom podcast with host Dr. Carrie Pagliano. I'm a mom physical therapist and your go-to guide for staying active with public health issues in pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, and beyond. Whether you're a fellow mom, physical therapist, or women's health professional, join me where I'll share expert insights, real life stories, and the latest research to help you approach running, CrossFit, yoga, palates, hit, or whatever activity you love with confidence and evidence-informed guidance. Let's start the show. All right, welcome back to the Active Mom podcast. Um, the the best guests, I think, are the ones that we swim in the same circles and then we realize we probably were neighbors at some point, but we're not anymore. Um but we decide we're just gonna talk about all the things. So I'm excited to invite Heather Kaplan, who is a registered dietitian and also uh one of the co-founders, yes, of Lane Nine. Um and we're gonna talk about what that is. And um, again, we've been playing in the same circles, lived in Arlington, never met Heather Kaplan.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I think how did I not know about your practice when I definitely needed it? What was I doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

When did you leave Arlington? That's my question.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, so we lived in North Arlington uh 2017 to 2020, and I had two kids during that time. So we were neighbors.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

We literally were neighbors. She lived a neighborhood behind mine. Um, not sure why, how. Well, we're here now, and we're gonna finally meet in person at the the female athlete conference. Super excited about that. Um tell us a little bit about, other than the fact that you're a former Arlingtonian. Um, how did you become a dietitian? Kind of what's your areas of specialty? And obviously, um got a couple of kids. Tell us a little bit about all that. Quick smattering.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, I have three kids. Um, and I became a registered dietitian because I went to Penn State and was interested in studying architecture, but I didn't get into the architecture program. They have a really competitive program. And I met with some advisors and they gave me a couple classes to take my freshman year to try to transfer into the program my sophomore year. Um, things were looking good on that front. And then I also kind of over the summer between graduating high school and going to college, uh, I would say that was like the time I started developing sort of a disordered relationship with food. And I think looking back, part of that was just it's a big life transition. I was moving across the country, I wasn't gonna know anybody. I had like one person at Penn State that I knew from my high school. I went to school, I grew up in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

So like southwest to northeast.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Why Penn State? Oh, that's like another conversation. Okay, different podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, kind of the short story is I didn't want to go to school in New Mexico because I wanted to like experience a different part of the country during college, and I just kind of had it in my head that that's what you do. And so went to visit Penn State. Um, there was like a kind of high school connection to Penn State, and I went to Penn, like we went to visit in the fall, and just like it was this beautiful fall day. And I was like, oh my god, this campus is gorgeous. It looks like it's out of a movie, and everyone seems so happy. And I'm like, oh, now that I live in the Midwest, and also like after I actually went to school there, I'm like, everyone is happy because the sun was out, and that doesn't happen very often.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

So speaking as a Western New Yorker, yes, I would agree. And we've got a lot of family in Pennsylvania, so yeah, welcome to the East Coast. We lied.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

No, we lied. It's like if you visit Seattle on a sunny day, which I have and it's gorgeous, and you're like, I can eat Seattle on a sunny day. Yeah, yeah, like tomorrow. Like, where can I live? Yeah. Uh so yeah, I went to Penn State and had some disordered eating when I got to college, which of course, like I didn't know or recognize at the time, and was kind of struggling with that huge life transition, moving again, like moving across the country, not knowing anybody, kind of like adjusting to a different culture, like southeast, northwest, like just felt different. So, so different.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

And I hadn't spent any time in that part of the country. So like I really had no reference. I think we went to DC when I was like in middle school. Yeah, and DC and Pennsylvania are very different. So um, I yeah, so I met with an advisor, and one of the options for like a science credit was to take um a nutrition class. And I was like, yeah, sure, I'm I don't want to take any other science lol. So um took a nutrition class and then took a lot of science after that, like a lot. So that was how I got into nutrition and you know, took the class and was like, oh, I'm so interested in all of this stuff because it was also like my brain's hyperfixation at the moment and just like leaned all the way in. So studied nutrition, became an RD, um, struggled a little bit with the profession over the next few years, because as I sort of started to recognize that my behaviors with food were disordered, I tried to reckon that with the fact that a lot of what I learned in school was also disordered. Like if you were to see those two things side by side, I'm like, but how are they different? If this is considered healthy eating, but the way I experienced it was really disordered and unhealthy, like how do we put those two things together and like not see a problem? So I think, you know, that's I don't know, we can dig into that if you want. But I felt like, you know, there is a way, of course, to eat in a way that promotes health, but and it's not disordered. But in my experience, like what I learned and what I had like adopted as quote unquote healthy behaviors seemed very disordered and was actually leading to health problems for me. Um, and of course, again, that's not true for everybody, but that's what was true for me. So I also during college did not have a period for four years, and you know, went to the doctor once a year and they were like, Why aren't you having a period? I'm like, I don't know, shouldn't you know that? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

And it's funny when you're like, hey, so this is what I'm learning in school, and this is what I asked the doctor, and nobody knows anything. And yeah, you and if you go with their route, you know you're gonna get worse. So you're like, I either gotta do something on my own, or this is it. Like that very much I'm I'm smiling because that very much was my situation transitioning from like kind of getting back to activity after pregnancy. But if there's something to be said about literally looking your own profession in the eye and being like, that ain't it.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Right. Yeah. I mean, the hyperfixation on weight and like weight-centric care and cut this out and you know, reduce intake by that. I'm like, this all is what I was doing when my health actually started declining because of all those things. And like, I wonder, again, I don't want to generalize, I don't want to say that like what works for one person is gonna work for someone else. We're actually really cautious to not do that or not perpetuate that, but there was definitely some cognitive dissonance. And then I actually saw a flyer, I think my junior year for a lab that was recruiting young menstruating college students. And it said, like, if you're not getting a period, like take one of these little tear-offs and contact our lab. And I was like, okay, yeah. And uh it's you know, instead of saying, like, hey, I qualify for this study, which I did, I said, Hey, I want to work in your lab because I wanted to learn what was going on. And I wasn't transparent about that, but I just said, I, you know, I'm a dietetics student, I'm a runner, I'm interested. I would was like running for exercise and movement. I had played soccer growing up and running was like filling the void during college and worked in that lab for two years under Nancy Williams, who you know, unbeknownst to me at the time, was actually like one of the first people to study amenrhea. Um, and yeah, worked there for two years. That's how I learned the term amenerrhea, like had never heard that before, and was like, okay, what we're doing in this study is we're trying to increase the caloric intake of these active people who are not getting periods when they should be getting periods. And we like tracked their movement and we had all these spreadsheets of like their urine samples and blood samples and movement and caloric intake, et cetera. They came in and got, I think, um, resting metabolic rate tested, maybe like once a month, weight, you know, all the all of these different measurements. And the primary goal of that study was just to increase their caloric intake. I don't know if they were supposed to be exercising. I can't really remember if there was like, you know, no additional exercise beyond like activities of daily life. I can't remember the exercise piece of it, but I do remember this is like reminiscent of Mean Girls. It was like we had these like high calorie energy bars, and it was like eat two of these a day. Um, but otherwise, their intake wasn't monitored or controlled. So it was really just like this additive. And I remember as a student in this lab who, like, of course, had no input on anything other than like make sure the spreadsheets are looking like they're supposed to, and I processed urine and blood samples. That those were my jobs. Um, I remember being like, they're probably eating these bars and like not eating other things, like they're they're probably compensating for this. But like, I don't remember if that was accounted for. In my memory, it wasn't. It was just like we're assuming that they're eating this on top of what they're already eating, which is probably what they were supposed to do. But I'm like, I bet they're not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

And there was a really high dropout rate, unsurprisingly. You had a group of people who needed mental health support and nutrition support. And, you know, again, like I'm not a researcher, I didn't design the study, I had no input whatsoever. And I'm not saying I could have done it better, but I do remember observing and being like, I have some thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

So did you go home and eat the high and high high energy bars or no?

unknown 10:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Isn't that funny? You're like, no, I see this. I see how y'all are working the system, but nope, I ain't eating the bar.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah, not eating the bar. No. Um, so yeah, my experience was again like trying to kind of like be aware of this cognitive dissonance of like my experiences versus what I was being taught, yeah, not having a period, not having a healthcare provider really flag that as a bad thing. Instead, I was prescribed birth control, and it was assumed at the time that that was a solution to the problem rather than a band-aid over a wound, and got into the profession and was just like, I don't know if I can keep doing this. Like, I think it might actually be harmful to me to keep doing this. And then I'm not sure that it's actually helpful to other people, but tried to find a way that I could practice that felt aligned with like what I thought was going to be health promoting for people. And that's kind of eventually led me to the world of non-diet nutrition and weight-inclusive care and eventually starting a private practice where I specialized in working with menstruating athletes. Um, a couple of college athletes. I was in DC at the time, so a couple of colleges around there worked with a couple of runners in college programs, and then also mostly folks who were kind of reckoning with the fact that they wanted to try to get pregnant and hadn't had a period in a really long time. And it was like not a problem until it was, you know. Right. Right. Uh, so that was my work. And then I met Alexis and we started lane nines.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

So talk to me about kind of holding these these two spaces here, trying to get my hands here. Um, where on one hand you're trying to solve these problems for people and you're also trying to figure out how to kind of navigate these issues yourself. Yeah. Um because I think a lot of us in this space who really are just invested beyond normal, I guess, is because we've experienced a lot of this and we've had to problem solve for ourselves. Like, what was what was the thing that finally made you kind of be like, I need to figure this out for me, instead of just kind of like, this isn't my job. Like, this is this has now become very, very personal. I need to figure this out for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah. So the first couple of years out of college, I my first job was in, well, first I had my internship. So for a year after college, I'm in my internship. And I'm at that time just being like, have I made a huge mistake? Like, should I even be a dietitian? I don't know. And trying to, I was running, I had gotten into like distance running, so I was doing like half marathons. I'm trying to remember if I was taking birth control at the time. I think I kind of went on and off of it during that time because I was worried about my bone health. And I'm like, now that I know what I know, like this doesn't seem good. And so I would like take the pills for a while and then be like, if I go off, I wonder if I'll have a period. Like I'm trying to eat more, trying to be mindful of like what my body needs. I'm trying to learn about sports nutrition. So for a couple of years, like did the internship, got a job in public health, then got a job in corporate wellness, and was just kind of like trying to figure out my own stuff. Um, I don't know if I can say other words. Trying to figure out my own shit space. Yeah. And was, you know, running with a group in DC and having a great time. I was in my early 20s, like having lots of fun, and was trying to just, you know, focus on myself. I at that time I was not doing work in sports nutrition. I wasn't doing any like one-on-one stuff. I was just like doing my jobs during the day and trying to like have a life outside of work. And then um I remember being, was I 24 yet? I think I was almost 24. But the first time I remember not having a period, I was 18. So had been almost six years, and I was training for a marathon. And the I must have been taking the pill at the time because I like looked at the calendar and was like, oh shit, like my period week is gonna be the week of the race. And I was like, that doesn't feel good. So I think I stopped like two months before and was like, we'll just see what happens. Oh, and a month later, like got a period for the first time in six years. And I was like, okay, so I'm training for a marathon of all the things. And like, I guess I'm eating enough. And I guess like I've I've like sort of not figured it out entirely, but like I that I remember that just feeling like, okay, we're on the right track. Like I'm doing what my body needs. If I can be training at this volume for the first time ever, right, and like still get a period. So I remember just being like really proud of that moment. Like, okay, I'm I'm doing a couple of things right. Um, and was still definitely struggling a little bit with disordered eating at the time, but I was like a lot of things had changed. Um, so that was kind of like the I don't know, tipping point, I guess, for me at with that time. Like, I haven't been amenarial since. So I was like, yes, I did it.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Well, it's to me, it's a really almost like a counterintuitive choice to be like, oh, well, I'm gonna have my period during a marathon. Let me come off the pill because my gut sense would have been like, guess who's going continuous through placebo week? Like, that's what I would have done. I never did that.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

It like freaked me out to do that. I don't know why. I just like I'm like, I don't know, I think I should you like your body probably needs to bleed, or I don't know. It like freaked me out to go continuous. So I never did. Um, yeah, I'm not saying that was like a logical or even like informed decision. No, I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Because you didn't have one. It's like, were you finally at the point where you're like, okay, I think I might have, you know, maybe I'm eating better. Or like, was there a part of you that like, no, I think I'm doing better? Let me just see.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I don't remember feeling that way. I really, in my in my memory, it was primarily like, oh, I don't want to be on my period on race week, so I'm gonna go off just like see what happened.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

But that's also like 24-year-old brain, too. So there's no logic. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

There was not a lot of logic. Yeah, it would have made more sense to just like skip the placebo week, but I didn't do that. And I mean, you know, in hindsight, I'm glad because it like gave me this.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

We're not giving medical advice, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah, no, don't do what I'm doing as a 24-year-old for sure. Yeah, um, yeah, so that was 24. And then, you know, fast forward, I think I was 29. No, was I 30? I think I was 30 when I started my private practice. And I had been doing some run coaching on the side, working at a startup. I had started run coaching, so I'd like taken that certification, I think in 2013. Um, and then started working at a startup in 2015 that folded like 16 or 17 months later, and was back in DC. We had moved to California, we were back in DC, and I was like, you know, I was gonna try like working for myself and see how that goes. And I had my running clients already. So I had like a little cushion to get started. And I was like, I just really between those two years. So the first marathon I ran was 2010 and this is 2016. In that time, I learned a lot about Amenoria. I'm like, okay, what was going on? Like I learned from the lab and then I kind of like, you know, did my internship, went to DC, got my jobs, like kind of like put it in the back of my mind for a while because I was just like, I'm I just want to like be a young adult and like try to enjoy this and get into running and like hope that I can hope I'll be okay. Um, I've somehow never had a bone stress injury. I've never had like a major running injury. So I think I'm like enough of a low-key person that I just sort of like skate by. Like I'm not trying to do crazy mileage. I don't do, I don't run really fast. So I think that has like served me very well. Um, but yeah, between those two, between those six years, I guess, I um kind of just kept running, had some life changes that happened, you know, relationships of moves, et cetera. Um and in 2016, I because I had been coaching runners and had been a little more focused on like the sports nutrition piece for them, I was like, you know, what would be awesome is if I in my practice could work with people who are experiencing amenorrhea. Like that would be really rewarding and come full circle for me. So that's what I did. Um, I had also in that time learned a little bit more about disordered eating and eating disorders, like just didn't learn much about that in my program. Some programs focus on it more than others.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Um, so I just had learned a little bit more about that space. Again, had like discovered non-diet nutrition and weight-inclusive care. And I was like, I feel like I have a really good tool set that I feel excited to bring into a private practice now. So I'm gonna give that a try and see what happens. And that was also so late 2016, that was also when I met Alexis and we kind of had this conversation about her experiences in college with what at the time we were kind of still using the female athlete triad. So she was like, you know, your work sort of stood out to me because like I dealt with this in college and no one named it and no one flagged it as a problem, and I'm only starting to make sense of it now. And I was like, Yep, that's what happens for a lot of us, is like we go through it, and then a couple years later we're like, oh, that's what I was experiencing. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I think also too, and um, I've been talking about history a lot lately. Like, I don't think for a very, very long time it was socially acceptable to even talk about disordered eating. And if you look at your field, um, you know, I I do think that there's people that are like, oh no, I'm not gonna work with disordered eating. I'm like, how can you not? Like, yeah, and right, and like nobody's gonna admit, you know, back in those days you have disordering eating issues unless you've had total breakdown or things like that. But like if we go back and look at, I mean, even just reading, I think it was um, you know, Kara Goucher's book and and Lauren Fleshman's book, like there was rampant disordered eating. It made me even go back and look at my high school career and be like, oh hey, were there people that I worked out with that were navigating that? But like I think it was rampant, but people weren't talking about it. And then we get into like the late 2010s, and I think we have a lot more people talking about it, definitely have a lot more people talking about it now. But the last few years, I feel like Red S has really kind of come to the forefront of conversation, especially in in my practice, um, pulling in that lactation piece, which again it goes back to the low estrogen kind of conversation and so on. Tell us a little bit about like kind of you know how you kind of fell across Reds and and kind of what that conversation looks like in your space, and like pre- and postpartum.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah, so what's coming to mind first that I want to speak to is I think it was in 2016, maybe 2015, I wrote a blog post that was like, I struggled with orthorexia. And the number of dietitians who emailed me and were like, I'm so glad you wrote that. Like, I've now I like it's really rare for people to admit that. I'm like, I know that's why. And I'm just someone who I like, I didn't think much of that. I'm like, I want to write about this, I'll put it out there. I'm sure some people will resonate with it. Like, I didn't think maybe I'm not supposed to do this, or maybe we're not supposed to admit this, you know. And I had a few people email me saying, Oh, when I was studying nutrition in college, I had an eating disorder, and one of my mentors or a preceptor or advisor or all of the above said, like, make sure you never admit this because then people won't trust you. And I was like, What? So um, so when I wrote that, it was because I had again, like in that time frame, I had like heard the word orthorexia. And I was like, what does that mean? Why didn't I learn about that? And I feel like I'm trying to remember, I think that term was coined in like the 90s, it might have even been the late 80s. Um and you know, it was like 2014 when I heard it for the first time. I'm like, how is this possible? And so that like kind of helped me make sense of my own experiences. And again, once I put that out there, like the people who not publicly, but in my inbox were like, I struggled with this, or like that's why I studied nutrition and only I'm only now making sense of it. And I'm like, okay, so this is common, but we're not talking about it. That doesn't make sense to me. Like, that's just not how I'm wired. I am wired.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

There's so many parallels about your field and my field. Like, I again, I did not talk about my own issues with leakage and diastasis and prolapse for the longest time because you're like, oh, are you gonna go see somebody that that's quote the expert? And then yeah, she couldn't prevent their issues. Like that was very much, I think, that time where you're like, an expert should be able to, you shouldn't have an eating disorder if you're an expert, you would know better, right? Which, like, yeah, we all know couldn't be further from the truth. Could not be further from the truth. Expert right here because I experienced it. Like, can't get any more expert than that.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah, yeah. And you know, like that's not to say that everyone who works in this field has had this experience, but it is what kind of draws a lot of us to doing this work. Um, so yeah, I think you know, there's there was one study published a few years ago that the it was a survey of dietitians in the US, and the results were like up to 80% of dietitians in the US have experienced some form of disordered eating based on the results of the survey. Like up to 80% leaves a lot to be interpreted, but I'm like that's not 80% is a pretty large number, you know. Just a little, yeah. Um, anywhere you fall under that, it's it's still a pretty high percentage. So I don't it was, yeah, I think it's more common than folks realize and than you know, some folks are willing to admit. And I don't want to shame anyone for like, you know, publicly sharing that story versus not. It's like to each their own. But again, the way that I'm wired is just like, I'm gonna share this because like maybe someone else has struggled with it and they are also like still making sense of it. Um, and that's like the ethos that we brought into lane nine. Like I talked to Alexis and she was just like, you know, I why am I in grad school hearing about the female athlete triad for the first time when I was a female athlete for 15 years? Yep, you know, like why is this the first time I'm hearing about it? And so I think that would have been 2016. Um, again, we I think like when we started lane nine in 2017, we're like, oh, it seems like people are using reds now. So we'll use reds. Like that seems to be the term, like definitely lagging behind like the the norms in the field, right? I think it was 2013 that Reds was coined to try to yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I mean, like now it's like everybody knows about it. Whereas then it was like this new like, what does that exactly mean as that female athlete triad? Like, what are we what are it was nuanced, you know?

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah, yeah. And you know, to like house the female athlete triad, but also acknowledge that like there are more symptoms than just those three things. It might present in different ways, it presents across the the sex spectrum, etc. So we we started it and wanted to share our stories to try to help other athletes make sense of it. Like if you're not seeing this, if you're not reading it, if you're not hearing about it, you don't have a way to make sense of your own story. And you know, I we wanted people to see it in writing and read a story about someone that had experienced it from like lots of different levels and angles. Like we try to be really one thing I think we try to bring to the front a lot is like this is from athletes at all levels. This is not just collegiate athletes, it's not just high school athletes, it's not just professional athletes. Like it happens across levels of sport. And I was never a competitive runner. And, you know, I experienced this before I even really got into running, and then running like probably didn't help, you know. Like my body was already in a low energy availability state. So then depleting it further with running was not helping.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Um, so we just wanted people to yeah, have a space where they could talk about it, where they again could make say make sense of their own experiences, and a space where they didn't feel like it was taboo to bring up your period or a menor or disordered eating or a bone stress injury or whatever it was. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Well, I think I think for some people too, it's you know there's probably sort of a progression in how they wrap their head around this, is you know, how do you wrap your head around the fact that you're navigating an eating disorder? How do you reconcile the fact that you're just a recreational runner? Maybe you don't consider yourself, quote, an athlete. You know, would you even consider something like energy deficiency and make that connection? You know, how would you even make that connection to a bone stress injury? Like, what is there have you found there's kind of a typical pathway when somebody's kind of learning about this stuff that you've tried to um I don't know, support with um with lane nine?

SPEAKER_02 27:24

I find, I mean, most people who come across lane nine, this was true in the earlier days. I think now it's probably more just that it's a little more common to see it on social media. But when we started it, um I think people were Googling, like, I'm not getting a period, what's going on? Or, you know, what is amenorrhea? And we had like a free WordPress at the time. So I'm not we were not like tracking Google Analytics, but from what we know from people emailing us and like leaving comments on the blog posts and stuff was like, I hadn't heard of this, but I was like trying to figure out what was going on with my body, and like I found you and I found this story. And again, when we started it, what ended up happening, this was like not our plan. We I don't think we could have even like tried to plan this, but what ended up happening was we shared personal essays and like just detailing kind of our own experiences, and then folks responded by saying, I have a story, I want to share my story. And we were like, Oh, okay, yeah, that'd be great. Like, we'll pull in lots of different stories, you know. Initially, I think we were just like, we'll put our stories out there and we'll like see what happens. Like, we did not have a plan. There was there was not a plan. Um, well, the initial plan was let's put our stories out there and also let's start trying to talk to as many physicians as possible. That was our like very loose idea because we all like there were three of us at the time, and we were like, How is it possible that like the three of us who grew up in different areas of the country and played different sports and went to different colleges, like not a one encountered a physician who was like, no, period, that's probably not good. Right. So that was our first, like our first few conversations were around like how can we connect with more physicians just to help them understand? Like, maybe you've never like you have come across this. I mean, to your point earlier, you know, a lot of dietitians want to keep eating disorders like over here, and they don't want to have to work, they don't want to work with eating disorders, they don't want to learn about them. And I'm like, whether you get the training or not, whether you think you're working with eating disorders or not, you are right. They come into your practice. You just maybe are not recognizing that because you're kind of trying to avoid it. But right, you know, especially if you work with athletes, it's like the I think the latest research or one of the studies recently was like one in four collegiate athletes experiences symptoms of an eating disorder. Yeah, one in four. And that's probably lower than what is actually true.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Well, there was one recently um looking at eating disorders in masters athletes, like even if you had them address like the likelihood of it coming back and kind of rearing its head or them still having eat is eating. Do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Uh, I didn't see that, Seti, but like, yeah, but like it's it's still this is a lifelong thing. And again, not having navigated this personally, but navigating other issues, like it's very seldom that things are like one and done and you've taken care of it, like um, especially with you know, all sorts of different variables involved in it. But like I think that's such a bigger conversation, too, is is like this isn't just a high school kid issue, this isn't just a college kid issue, this isn't just hey, I'm in my 20s and I'm running issue. Like, this is stuff that can't we need to navigate through the different seasons of our lives. Um, so for you, like when you're trying to navigate, I want to be a mom, at that point were your periods like pretty good and you were feeling good about things. And then as you're going into pregnancy where you need weight gain, I would imagine like certain levels of body dysphoria and things like that might kind of poke their heads in or a little bit. Like, what was that experience like as you're trying to navigate this as a first-time mom, but also as a professional and also having navigated kind of these issues for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Yeah. So um interestingly, I learned a lot about amenorrhea when I was in the lab and then, you know, kind of like trying to understand my own experiences and what was going on in my body before I started working with other people. And then when I was like, I want to be pregnant, I'm like, how do I know so little about the menstrual cycle?

unknown 31:36

Like what?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

All of us said every first time live ever, where you're just like, wait, mucus? What the frick is that? Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

So I got pregnant in early 2017, which was um also when again, I was like growing my private practice and we had started lay nine. So there's a lot going on. I didn't think through all the ramifications of being pregnant and having a newborn and also trying to grow a business. Didn't think um, but I yeah, I mean, at the time, like I knew my cycles were regular. I was learning more about ovulation windows and what to look for, you know, things like that. Um, and I just remember going into my first pregnancy feeling like, wow, I'm really glad that I'm in the place that I'm in now, versus like if I had tried to do this a few years ago and was still sort of struggling with like food and movement and trying to um, you know, kind of like untangle lots of disordered thoughts and behaviors and um falling back to old coping mechanisms when things got very stressful. Like, you know, I did a lot of work, like therapy and like kind of my own nutrition work and trying to like find a balance with running and training and being really on top of like tracking cycles to make sure, like, oh, was that one a little bit longer? Does that mean like I wasn't fueling enough? Was you know? So I just I think I came into the first pregnancy just like I'm glad I've done some work because this is hard. It is hard when your body is changing. And you know, I let's see, I got pregnant, I think at the end of April, maybe early May, and like, you know, was obviously was pregnant over the summer and just did not feel good running. Like it was just we were in DC. It's so hot, it's so humid. Summer running's awful, it's awful. And I was like concerned that my heart rate was getting too high. I mean, I didn't know a lot of I like actually knew nothing about exercise and pregnancy, and so I was just like, I don't know. I feel like running is maybe not the best thing for me right now. I was leaking a ton. I remember going to a an OB appointment, and I was like, Well, I tried to go for this run, and I was probably still in my first trimester, maybe second, I don't know. Uh, and I was like, I tried to go for this run, and like my shorts were soaked. And I'm like, is that amniotic fluid? And they were like, No, it's you're it's incontinence. And I was like, Oh, okay. And they didn't refer you.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Carrie, come on. Well, we'll have an offline conversation about which practice that was. But again, like it's also we'll give you, we'll give you credit. Like it was, you know, the late 2010. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

I guess it's 2017. They were not, they were not referring me to a pelvic floor PT. I mean, fast forward to my six-week like postpartum appointment. And I met with this who I had previously thought to be very lovely, male OB that I actually liked. I otherwise like strongly have a preference for female providers, but I'm like, this guy, he's all right. I'll take him. He's fine. Uh, and he had been in the hospital when my kiddo was born. So I was like kind of glad that I had my postpartum appointment with him. And I said, you know, my preferred form of movement is running, and I just feel like there's probably a lot of things I need to figure out before I like start running again. He's like, No, no, no, you're good. Like exercise, you're good. And I was like, I know, but running, and he was like, No, everything's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

And I was like, could I?

SPEAKER_02 34:58

I was like, Can I have a referral to a pelvic floor PT? I didn't know if I needed one for my health insurance, but I was like, just in case, I'm here. Like, yeah, and he goes, Why? What happened? Oh, Jesus. I was like, What happened? A person came out of my body. Like, what do you what do you mean? What happened? So that was my experience. Um, obviously, I did not leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Which hospital do you deliver at?

SPEAKER_02 35:27

I delivered at Sibley with my first. Um, and I do not remember the name of the practice. It was like they had an office in Farragut North, Falls Church, and Bethesda. So one of the like huge Yeah, that yeah, just like you see it in one person every time, but which again, I was like, I saw him in the hospital, and I'm glad that I happened to have him for my postpartum appointment because at least it's the same face.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

But but this is the thing that, like, not to divert away from you know, all the dietitian talk, but like all the major hospitals in this area have pelvic floor practices. Whether or not they have running, oh yeah, Sibley has a pelvic floor practice. Yeah, nobody told me that. So yeah, no, and I think that's the part that just like I'm sure we can find all the parallels in the world, is like all this stuff exists. Now, whether you have rent specific or things like that, I don't know that I mean I didn't really start to get super run specific until the last couple of years, but like yeah, all these resources were available, and yet we still have this gatekeeping. And I'm sure you it's the same thing with you guys. It's like, well, why do you need a dietitian?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Why do you like yeah, just eat more or just be healthy? Yeah. Well, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Um, yeah, I mean it's I didn't because that'll fix it, right?

unknown 36:41

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

It's like even if I wasn't a runner, like pelvic floor PT was helpful to me after all of my kids. Like it, regardless of what form of movement you want to be doing, right? Your body has been through a lot. So how is this not like standard care? I mean, I know I'm preaching to the choir.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

I know I know, but like I think, and again, I I think there's so many parallels between our two fields, is like you would if somebody had an ACL injury, you would send them to rehab. Like right, and it's it's like it's that particular and and it's shifting a lot now, which is great. But like I wonder if you're actually like, do you ever get referrals from OBG WANs?

SPEAKER_02 37:27

No, and I mean to be honest, uh one, I don't really see clients anymore, but when I was seeing client, like if I work with a client now, it's somebody that I'm coaching for running, and I'm like, well, yeah, we can do both because I see what I mean though, like they weren't referring to us because we're like, oh, you're six weeks, you're totally fine because they don't understand that whole musculoskeletal aspect because they're in their silo.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

They're gonna be the person that if you're gonna tell somebody I don't have a period, it's gonna be them. Right. Wouldn't they be the the primary and and so that's so again, I'm not bashing OBGYNs at all because they they do a lot of things, but I I think as a consumer, as a person, like being very aware of the knowledge base expected of that provider and the educational basis that they have. Like they probably I mean, if they had a lecture on amenorrhea, it was probably like 30 seconds long and had and didn't mention the word dietitian at all, just like they didn't mention, I mean, and and again it's better now, but like so unless we change the medical system and that's gonna be a big ship to to move and it's gonna move slowly. I think again, this is where you know you come back to getting good information out to the public and social media and things like that. Like you need to understand what your provider can and cannot do and where their knowledge base is. Maybe they can't fix the amenorrhea, but they should be able to, if you ask them a referral, yeah, they better tell you yeah, we need to have a dietitian consult. Just like if I'm peeing my pants in pregnancy or postpartum, we have this person. I can't tell you why or what they do, or like, and and and I think that's a big assumption. I remember very, very early on in my career, is like I thought physicians had all the answers. And if I didn't get somebody better, they would know that I was a shitty therapist, and because they knew how to do all the things, which I that couldn't be further from the truth, but they should be able to at least refer out and be like, hey, you're not getting a period, or you know, you potentially might be at risk for this. Ah, you should see a dietitian, just like they should be referring out to us. So yeah, sorry, totally went off the rails to come back around. But I was like, no, no, no, there's so many parallels here about getting access to the right person.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Right. I will say there was one client during my how many years? Maybe four years that I was in DC in private practice before we moved to Colorado. One client who was amenorrheic, was a runner, wanted to get pregnant, and her OB was like, maybe see a dietitian before we try anything else. I was like, not me specifically, but just like look for a dietitian.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

And I was like, oh my god, it happened once. Just that one time. But again, I think that's such a good point for people to understand is that we're still coming around on this. Yeah. You know, it's it's not it, and and I think where I'm struggling as a provider when I have somebody that maybe has an eating disorder history that somehow they've divulged, fortunately, because we've developed a good relationship, but they're going back to running, they're lactating. How do we navigate that piece and me not scare the crap out of them? And I think we're still working on that. And like, how do you know what eating enough is when you're breastfeeding and trying to get and we don't have any quantification of that right now? Yeah. Um, like so, how do how do you kind of navigate that piece of it, or how do you kind of approach it when you have somebody? First of all, how do you identify that risk? And then second of all, how do you figure out what's gonna work for them, especially in a period of time when they naturally are not getting a cycle and we don't know when it's coming back?

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Oh, that's so tough. Yeah. I um so from a dietitian standpoint, like how would I navigate lactating and running and um postpartum recovery? Yeah, it is tough. I mean, everybody is different. Like my periods came back really early. Hashtag blast. I was like, what the hell? I know it's cruel, it's cruel. Um, and then they're irregular for a little while. So like you don't have a lot of feedback to go off of, and you're sleep deprived and you can't remember things and blah, blah, blah. So um, yeah, I mean, with I think with lactation, what a lot of people are unprepared for, especially if they're active, is how hungry they're going to be. Right. Like it is in some cases, it can feel like an insatiable hunger. And you have the layered on top of all of this, you have the culture of you should be quote unquote losing your baby weight and quote unquote bouncing back. And I think even the most emotionally evolved of us like get into that space and are like, oh wait, my body does feel really different and I it's uncomfortable. And I don't know how to like make sense of that, you know, and I'm struggling because everything is new, especially if it's your first kid. Like suddenly I'm a parent and suddenly I'm hardly sleep at all, and my body feels sore and tired, and my nipples are raw, and it's just like there's so much going on. Um, yeah. I mean, when I was working with folks in that space, I think we talked a lot about just hunger and satisfaction, fueling regularly, eating even if you're not feeling that hungry. You know, same, it's kind of like a lot of the same principles that apply to sports nutrition for most people. Like you may not be hungry when you wake up early for a run, but that doesn't mean your body won't benefit from having fuel, you know, and you may not be hungry every two to three hours while you're nursing a newborn, but I can tell you that it's going to help and it's going to help you feel better, help your milk supply, help your body recovering if you are well nourished. And, you know, I think a lot of people in those first like 12 weeks, especially, it just everything is thrown for a loop. Like everything feels not normal and not in most cases, like it doesn't feel great. And so then to have to also think constantly about like what am I eating? Am I eating enough? Um, yeah, it was in my experience, mostly trying to help people get into a place where they were eating really frequently, hydrating, understanding that you know, if you're active, having some electrolyte mix during the day is going to be helpful, not just water. Um, Again, eating frequently, eating balanced meals that have all three macronutrients that you need, and not just you know, prioritizing one over the other. Um, and kind of like making peace with that hunger. Because I think a lot of people, again, in my experience, especially if you've come into this with an even slightly disordered relationship with food, like eating as much as you probably need to eat to maintain lactating and movement is a lot. It's gonna be hard. Yeah, it's like an emotional load, it's a mental load. One, just to think through like, what should I eat next? I don't know. Like, I remember getting to places where I'm just like, I'm sick of everything, but I know I need to eat. And just being like, I don't know, just like throw a bunch of stuff in a smoothie or something.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah. Well, I think that the the the take-home point there is it's not a time for calorie deficit. Oh gosh, no. And I that's wet whether it's because I put a safe space here or not, but that's one of the things that like inevitably comes out of people's mouths in those first couple months postpartum, is they have expectations. And of course, you have those people that go home in their pre-pregnancy genes, and then they have, you know, then others that that not. And they have this expectation that they're going not only back, but look better than they did before. They're like, Well, why is my belly round? I'm like, was it ever flat? And like, no, I'm like, well, don't expect it here. Like, yeah, but to navigate that piece of it, and then you know, then the nudges from family or friends being like, Well, you should have lost that weight by now, even though you're logically like, No, I'm trying to fuel my kid, I'm trying to do all this stuff, but you know, a couple I I think people are cool with it the first maybe two to three months, and then after that, like around that back to work time, which is around when you're trying to fit into your old clothes to go back to work, if they don't fit. I think that pressure goes on.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Yeah. Um, yeah, and again, like there's just so much happening mentally for a parent around that time. Like hormones, yeah. Hormones, the I mean, babies change. You know, I always say to like parents, I'm like, as soon as you get used to a routine with a baby, it changes. They change every couple of weeks, like whatever their nap schedule or their feeding schedule, like it's gonna change. As soon as you get used to it, it's different. And that's really hard. You know, I feel like, you know, the clientele that I'm that I specialized in working with for a long time was like, and we talk about this on the Lay Nine podcast too, like the things that can lend themselves to being a very accomplished athlete are some of the same risk factors for disordered eating and eating disorders. And then you layer parenting on top of all of that, and it's like you have control over very little, if anything. And it's really hard to navigate that. And then I mean, that's to say nothing of like relationship dynamics that might change or household dynamics that might change if you already have a kid or pets or other people that you take care of. It's just like there's so much going on that I completely see how movement and food become the things that you want to control or that are your outlet. And it's really hard to try to develop a new coping skill when everything else is new, you know?

SPEAKER_00 47:16

No, I think that's fair. You you yeah, I I love it when I I can always tell when people have more than one kid or their kids are older and they've survived a little how old are your kids? Seven, five, and almost four. Yeah, okay. So you know. Um, you know, it's just like it's there's just something for those of you that like either you're you're navigating babies or pregnancy right now, like like we don't mean to be like, well, there's just you know, but like I think when you've been through enough freaking seasons and you're just like it's a shit show. I'm sorry, it just is, and you figure it out, and there's some like I get daily reminders with patients they're like, my kid just turned two and he's an asshole. I'm like, yeah, he is, and he's gonna be even worse than a year and a half. Um, but you during those moments, like you forget how utterly emotionally draining and hard, and you just want to sleep, and you're just like, I don't want to be thinking about food, I just want to go for a run, or I just want to do this, or I just want to get back in my body again because this is not who I am. Like, you forget that just like visceralness that everything is just incredibly heightened. So we can sit here and have these logical conversations, but when you're in that, and that's why you you need to delegate that out and and get somebody who can step back objectively and help you sort of navigate, whether it's from you know, counseling perspective, dietitian perspective, physio, like because when you are in it, you cannot make these logical kind of decisions, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

No, yeah, it's a like under resourced brain and body because you're yeah, I mean, like mentally and physically, yeah, from a hormonal and like kind of evolutional perspective, like focus on baby. Yeah, like that's how a like birthing parents' brain and body are wired, is like keep baby alive, you know. Like our our second and third are very close together, which was not the intention, but the periods come back early. So, you know, here we are. Um I remember when our third was a newborn and our second was our middle was like you know, 13, 14 months old, and he was just like a curious kid. He was exploring, he was crawling and climbing and doing all those things, a lot of things that our first just didn't do. And I just like could not. There was one day where I like was in the backyard with them and my husband was there, and I just like couldn't deal with the injury risk. Like, I just was like so focused on our middle. I'm like, he's gonna hit his head on that, he's gonna scratch his leg on it, he's gonna, you know. And I remember Mike just being like, maybe take the baby inside and just take a little break. Like, just maybe do you want to go sit on the couch? Do you want to go for a walk? Like, what would help you in this moment? And then I remember talking to my therapist about it, and she was like, You are in a hyper-vigilant state, yeah. And you are focused on what your brain is trying to do is keep baby alive, but what you're redirecting that to is a toddler. And toddlers and babies are very different. So I appreciated just having that perspective. But as you were saying, kind of like what is going to be helpful and supportive to most new parents is also like these are things that not a lot of people have access to or resources to maintain. And it just speaks to like how in the US under-resourced a lot of us are in that time frame. Yeah, not intentionally, you know, like it's just the way that our culture is set up. Like you go back to work at 12 weeks, what?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

At 12 weeks, like it's if you've been through it, and I'm sure most people listening have been through it, like that's a wild transition when you go from like the fourth trimester into like babyhood, a lot of things are changing. And I feel like for me at that point, it was always like the sleep deprivation has caught up to me. You know, like I could maybe skate by for a couple, maybe like 10 or 12 weeks, and then like, oh, I'm tired. Like now I'm realizing how tired I am. And that's also like at that time, you're supposed to like get back into everything, you know, it just doesn't the math does not math.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And and I mean, I it just goes to to to kind of speak to what we're talking about, is like again, you're it depends on that season you're in. You've got to know the history of like what you might be susceptible to going in, but knowing that where your vulnerabilities are gonna be, and your brain is going to be wired to behave in a certain way, which might make it play out um differently than you expected. And and just I I I talk about this portal where I'm like you can logically prepare for all this. So if you're pregnant and listening to this, you'll be like, Yeah, uh-huh, totally. I got you. I will remember this. Yes, right, exactly. You don't, but once you walk through the portal, like all of a sudden everything we just said hits completely differently, and there's like multiple sub portals. Like, I only walked through the first and the second week, we we decided not to walk into and have a third. But like I was talking to a patient yesterday where I was like, Yeah, you think you remember everything from the first, and then it's not until you have the second that all of a sudden you're like, No, that doesn't go there, and this is how we did this, and like it all just comes back. There's like the amnesia that sort of kicks in, or the not knowing. Um, but I and again, it's such a hard time too. Again, if you're used to navigating your issues via your menstrual cycle, you don't have that piece of information to rely on. Um I always, and there's always the misnomers about that. Like, that's a PSA I give to every single new mom. I'm like, look, here's the thing you can get pregnant without your period, you can get pregnant while you're lactating. You can get you can be lactating and not get your period, you can get your period and be lactating. Like you can get pregnant. Yes, yes, yes, yes. PSA if A goes into B, you can get C, like pretty much whenever. Um, yeah. Because I guess it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

I mean, if you're in a heterosexual relationship, if your partner's sex does not match your sex, these things can happen. Take precautions.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Exactly. Yeah. All right. On that note, we'll run back. Um, at the end of every episode, I ask a couple of questions. Um, what's the book you're reading or podcast you're listening to right now? Oh, well, I just started All Fours.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

Hadn't read it, have not read it yet. Oh, it's um how do I describe this book? I mean, I'm only like three chapters in, so I don't know if I'm the right person to try to give a summary, but it's about perimenopause and sexuality and kind of like changing. Oh, who wrote that one? Miranda July. Okay. It came out in 2024.

unknown 53:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

There's so many books that I just I need to go in a long run and put it on like audiobook and double speed.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just started reading that. Okay, good or not good so far? I like it so far. Yeah. Okay. People have like very hot takes on it. So I'll be curious if um when folks listen to this, okay, what they thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Okay, cool. All right. Favorite activity since becoming a mom. It doesn't have to do with your kids either if you don't want it to.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Okay. Um, I mean, running was just the first thing that came to mind. Like I just still running is still a big part of my life. So yeah, running, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Uh one piece of advice for moms.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Doesn't matter if they're new or experienced or lean on your people and like let the people help you.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

I like that. All right. I have an added challenge to this. I was gonna say, who's someone in your space that we should know about? But the added you get extra bonus points if I don't know them yet.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Someone in my space meaning reds and athletics and all the things, nutrition. Oh, um, oh gosh, this is hard. Who is someone in my space?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

You can answer with somebody that that we know together mutually, but like extra bonus points if I don't know them.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

I'm gonna I'm gonna give Mel a shout out. We were talking about Mel earlier, so she's she's friend of mine.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

A lovely story right now. Mel Sulliver, who goes uh her handle is uh Nutrition by Mel, and she just had um her little daughter, and she's uh graciously been sharing a lot of insight with her early postpartum journey, um, ups and downs, all that good stuff. She's a delightful human. Um, give her a follow for sure. But um, she's a better woman than I because you would not find me on the socials during this.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Yeah, it took me three kids to take a full break from email and social media. I was like, you will not be hearing from me for at least a month. At least goodbye. So not at all. But yeah, Mel, uh, I mean, if you you know tagging on to my previous answer, like lean on your people and let people help you. Like, if you need a dietitian, yeah, Mel is your girl. Mel is your person.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

No, she's such a good human. All right, and then last one here, what does it mean to you to be an active mom?

SPEAKER_02 55:59

Right now, it means uh letting myself get back into letting things be hard again. That's that might sound a little weird. Yeah, I feel like you know, everyone approaches postpartum activity very differently. If you spend five minutes on social media, you'll see five different examples of how someone has approached their movement postpartum, whether that's like leaning really hard into strength or getting right back into running and then having to back off and then and then getting in again. Um, maybe training for a marathon, maybe get, you know, everyone like does it so differently. And I found for me that kind of staying in a space where it felt fun but not too hard, yeah. And where I could do like some long distances but not too long, like that felt good for a really long time. And I don't want to say that without adding that like I struggled with that a little bit. Will I ever want to run a marathon again? Cause I really don't want to right now. It sounds too hard. Will I ever want to run, you know, quote unquote fast again? Like, I don't know, it sounds too hard. And uh for me, I mean, you heard my kids are young and they're close together. Like I had enough hard. There was enough of it, and I didn't want more. And that that was just what was true for me. So right now, what I'm finding to be true for me as an active mom is that feels like a fun space to start exploring a little bit again with goals and challenges and letting it be hard, but also fun.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

You're you're at a lovely poignant point. At least it was very similar for me when my daughter ended up in like full day preschool before kindergarten at our public school opened up a lot. And that's honestly when I started my practice here. And then it was a couple years into that where I'm like, hey, I'm ready to kind of branch out and do my first half or this or that, and and so on. And so you're at a point where you're like, okay, no one's dead. I can't. And they're in school. And they're in school, and you know, unfortunately, then you still get up at zero dark thirty to get everything done. But like it's you finally can kind of like shift back to yourself a little bit or kind of just it's and I think kind of just to give you some foreshadowing, it lets you kind of re-examine what it you thought you could do at this point or this age or this stage, and allows you to kind of redefine it for yourself. So it's it's really fun. Um, and I think just being in this community, I think there's a lot of support to getting stronger, more capable, whatever that looks like. It doesn't necessarily have to mean PRs, but like more than you thought you probably could be in whatever that looks like for you. So it's exciting. So congrats on keeping everybody alive this long. Doing what we can over here. Yeah. Woo! We did it. All right. If you want to find out more about Heather and Lane Nine, um, you can find her over on Instagram Lane9 Project and also Heather C R D. Um Heather, thank you so much for joining me on the show. Next time you're um back in Arlington, we'll we'll visit the old neighborhood. Um the old stomping grounds, yes. Yeah, and then we'll we'll go offline and you can tell me who your OBG WAN was.

unknown 59:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Trying to remember. Thank you so much. Well, okay. Well then thanks so much for joining me. Yeah, thank you. If you're navigating pregnancy, postpartum or perimenopause, whether personally or professionally, check out all our free resources and upcoming courses at carypagliano.com. This podcast reflects the opinions of Dr. Carrie Pagliano and her guests, and it is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider with any medical questions. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform. And thanks for listening.