How a Strategic Audience Journey Doubled the California Symphony's Attendees & Quadrupled Donors

Is it time to reimagine your donor pipeline?

With a track record of doubling crowds and quadrupling donors for the California Symphony, Aubrey Bergauer has been likened to the Steve Jobs of classical music.

In her tenure from 2014-2019 as Executive Director, she walked into the role during a state of financial crisis and alarming churn rates. Why were 80% of first-time donors not renewing and 90% of first-time buyers not coming back to see another show? There had to be a better way.

My conversation with Aubrey is a MASTERCLASS in change management. We cover how she created a systematic customer journey for the symphony (without over soliciting), including her secrets to turning first-time attendees into lifelong patrons. Plus, we talk through her tech stack and how data was her most persuasive partner in piloting new fundraising ventures.

Aubrey's vision doesn't rest on data alone–it's about creating an all-encompassing experience for every symphony-goer. From UX overhauls to copy changes on their website, she details the subtle, yet powerful shifts in the user experience that helped increase their ticket sales by 20%.

Let’s hear how she made it all happen!

Resources & Links

Connect with Aubrey on LinkedIn and through her website. You can also check out her new book Run It Like a Business: Strategies for Arts Organizations to Increase Audiences, Remain Relevant, and Multiply Money – Without Losing the Art.

Want to make Missions to Movements even better? Take a screenshot of this episode and share it on Instagram. Be sure to tag @positivequation so I can connect with you. 

Don’t miss DonorPerfect’s Community Conference SPARK on June 4 & 5! It’s for any fundraiser wanting to excel in donor management, program innovation, community engagement, and organizational growth. Register for FREE! RSVP: https://bit.ly/DSSPARK

Want a donor acquisition plan tailored to you? All you need to do is answer 5 simple questions. Get your personalized growth plan: https://bit.ly/DonorGrowthQuiz

The NIO Summit is the nonprofit industry’s premier digital fundraising event! Join hundreds of fellow nonprofit professionals in Indianapolis September 18-19 and save $600 on your ticket -- the lowest price available anywhere right here: https://bit.ly/NIOSummit2024

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:37

Follow the data. This is why I've become so data driven over my whole career. Because even long before California, Symphony, when I was at those bigger institution, Seattle Symphony, Seattle opera, even Bumble Shoot Music and Arts Festival. There was a lot of, like, trying to get these ideas greenlit trying to employ a version of these strategies. And so even then, you know, dealing with what, you wanna do what, you wanna focus on retention, you you know, And so being able to really know the numbers and say, this is what the data shows. And we're so lucky that we have so much data already available to us. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just have to know the data.

Speaker 2: 2:17

Hey there. You're listening to the Missions Movement podcast, and I'm your host, Dana Snainer. Digital strategists for nonprofits and founder and CEO of positive equation. This show highlights the digital strategies of organizations making a positive suited impact in the world. Ready to learn Melita's trends, actionable tips, and the real stories from behind the feed. Let's transform your mission into a movement Hello listeners. I am jazzed for today's conversation and jazz is kind of a pun for what our conversations gonna end up being about today here with Aubrey. Abury Bergauer is the founder and CEO of changing the narrative. She transformed the California Vinnie during her tenure as executive director from two thousand and fourteen to twenty nineteen, she nearly doubled the size of its audience in Quadruple the size of its donor base, let's go, ensuring the Orchestra's long term financial stability. Now, This is dopey. Ready for this? She has since been hailed the Steve Jobs of classical music from the observer and Cheryl Sandberg of The Symphony, and I am a big fan of Joe's number by the way, and she just released her first book. Congratulations, Run It Like A Business, Strategies for Arts Organization's increase audiences, remain relevant and multiply money, and we're here to talk about how she, how you, made it all happen. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Oh, thank you for that intro, Dana. It is a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2: 3:56

You're very welcome. I'm super stoked that you are here. So I like to, like, dive right into things. Can you take us back to twenty fourteen? That's ten years ago now, which just seems wild.

Speaker 1: 4:09

So, yeah, how is that even possible? I know.

Speaker 2: 4:11

Yeah. I know. It goes back a decade when you became eighty of the California symphony and what was like the status of things when you first started?

Speaker 1: 4:20

Yeah. It is hard to believe it was a decade ago now, but here we are. And the state of the organization was financial crisis. And the Board had shared some of that with me to be fair. They didn't hide that. And so I knew that that was the task ahead. And yet, the challenge is to be more specific. We're not unique to that organization. There are so many, so many cultural organizations for sure. Maybe other nonprofit as well seeing definitely declining donor base. That's true across all non profit right now, trying to raise more money from fewer households that was already true ten years ago. On the ticket side, declining audiences, aging audiences, they had been cutting, cutting, cutting, and as a mantra, you know, you can't cut your way to health, and so it was just trying to stop this like kind of death spiral they were in, not to be too dramatic about it, but it was pretty And then when I started, it was like, oh my god. How are we gonna make payroll at the end of the month? Like, that kinda mad. Yeah. So That was the state of things. And just from very early on though, the reason I took the job was because there were some foundational assets that I was like, okay, we can raise money for this. I can get people on board with this. We just need to spend ourselves out of the the really bad stuff. And then, as you said, the end results over five years we accomplished a lot.

Speaker 2: 5:39

Amazing. Okay. So I like to give people the note about where you started from. What background did you have that led you to say yes. Enter a role like this?

Speaker 1: 5:47

My whole career, a good question. My whole career has been an arts management, and so I had cut my teeth at large institutions. And at the Seattle Symphony, I worked in fundraising, at the Seattle operator, I worked in the marketing department, over all of those things as the number two at the Bumber Shoot Music and Arts Festival. And I along the way had really started developing a lot of the concept that probably will talk about today. And in whatever my scope or role had allowed, had started to see success in these different strategies. And so When this opportunity came, like I said, I thought there were some foundational assets. I could raise money for this. I always say now this silver lining of crisis is that there is more hunger and thirst for new ideas and looking at new opportunity, hunger and thirst for change. And that's what I was coming in to do. I said I have a plan. And I need a board to say, yeah, I see the plan, and let's do it. And they did. And so that was really that green light to say, okay, you have the authority, you have the scope, you need this. And not every board gives their ED that much leeway. And so I'm really grateful too, especially my board chair there. That was sort of the background to answer your question and all of it coming together to say, okay, this is where I'm gonna go. And I remember saying, this is gonna be my I don't wanna call it experimental playground because like I said, I had tested a lot of these ideas at prior organizations, but I just thought this is gonna be the place where I put it all together. And we're gonna see how this plays out.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. So I just have a question because I am not in the arts and culture space and I have recently seen maybe in the past decade because I was attending them, the or not maybe resurgence, but, like, huge amount of attention with youth going to festivals. So, like, the Coachellas of the world and concerts. And were you not also seeing that at the time because I think about that with music from what I see. Was that not happening in the Symphony space? And if so, like, why not?

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah. It's funny because I worked for three seasons at the Bumber Shoot Music Arts Festival, which is like a Coachella kind of. Anybody in the Pacific Northwest probably knows Bumber Shoot. There definitely differences, but it is that kind of idea of a three day festival. And what we were seeing there is, in some ways, what you described, yes, definitely people Like, there was a rise in popularity of these festivals, but Bumber Shoot had been around since the seventies. So it's actually, like, a really early kind of a doctor of this festival model. And what was interesting in particular to Seattle was that because it had been around for so long, it used to be free. I mean, can you even imagine of coachella is free. And so we had to deal with a lot of, like, talk about marketing challenges. Like, how do we message that, no, these are expensive things to produce. And I mean, that's something true for all of the arts. It's expensive to produce because these are labor intensive art forms, no matter if it's a music festival or a symphony orchestra or an opera company or theater, whoever. So that was a particular challenge there in messaging that no no no that we it's not free anymore, like it was thirty years ago at the time. But this model of and this is something I think all kinds of arts organizations can learn from that nothing beats the live performance. Anybody who goes to a music festival understands this. Like, I listen to, fill in the blank artists, on Spotify or Apple or whoever or wherever. And therefore, I want to see them live. And that's actually a concept that performing arts organizations can really adopt of, oh, no. Our digital content in itself is not a money making stream. Our digital content the gateway that makes people want Yeah. This what I call the analog in person experience. So, anyways, kind of trying to connect a few dots here at strategy music festival. How does this apply to other more, quote, unquote, traditional arts organizations.

Speaker 2: 9:30

No. No. That's really helpful. Thank you. And you ended up coming up with a very different donor pipeline experience. Can you walk us through what was the traditional model? And then you said you kinda pull together everything from your previous experience at the Symphony. So what was the traditional model? And then what did you implement that was different?

Speaker 1: 9:51

Yeah. So the traditional model, the way it typically works at most arts organizations, whether that's performing arts or visual arts, visitor based, even cultural organizations, zoos, for example, botanical guards, all of that is somebody buys a ticket, they come for the first time. We immediately anybody listening, you can like tell me if this has happened to you immediately what tends to happen next. You get solicited for a donation. Like, almost always, it seems like you get the call from telefunding or you get the letter in the mail, and then the marketing department's like, wait. Wait. Wait. Maybe they want to buy a subscription. They came once, maybe they want season tickets. So then they start bombarding you with, here's the season brochure, here's the offer to get your subscription. Right? And, like, hopefully, people are listening and being, like, oh, yeah, I've totally seen that. And that's, like I said, kind of the, quote, of, typical way. And So to attach some statistics to why I think this way is broken. In classical music, this is true for other artistic disciplines as well, but pretty close at least is that of first time attendees of those people who buy a ticket and come once, ninety percent never come back. Ninety percent exactly. That is a churn rate that is so alarming. And, like, put a pin in x. That's part of the impetus as to why I thought there's got to be a better way. If we just change that one statistic, that is gonna set up everything for more success later. Okay. Second stat, I wanna share. Once people do become season ticket holders, the drop off rate after the first year is fifty percent. Okay. And then once people do become donors, this comes straight from association of fundraising professionals. So this is all nonprofit, not just the arts. It's up to eighty one percent do not renew, never come back. So we've got eighty percent of donors, first time donors not renewing, ninety percent of first time ticket buyers not coming back. I mean, these stats, I just thought were horrifying when I first learned them. And that set me on a path of asking questions. Why is this happening? What do we do about it? So that led to we can talk about user experience, research, and all that sort of strategy. But to your question here of this different donor pipeline model, I thought, okay, okay, okay, okay, we have got to stop the over solicitation too soon. Mhmm. Because, yes, some of those first timers well, ten percent will come back. We gotta fix that. We gotta make it higher than a ten percent retention rate.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Once once they subscribe, we've gotta make sure that renewal is more than half of them. Keep that season ticket package the following year. And of donors, we've got to get that renewal rate higher. And so a good statistic that I also know is that once somebody is a second year season subscriber, you get over that first year cliff is what I call it now, the first year cliff. You get over that first year cliff hurdle then all the research in the field says, they are now your top prospect to donate. And so I to putting all this together, and I said, all we have to do is wait. And waiting is not my personality. I will say that, but but being strategic definitely is. And so I thought, okay. We need a systematic customer journey. And I feel like now the words like customer journey, audience journey, user experience, those are words we use a lot. In twenty fourteen, especially in arts and culture?

Speaker 2: 13:07

No. No. Exactly. In, like, digital? Definitely not.

Speaker 1: 13:11

Exactly. Yeah. And so going back, I thought, okay. At the time it just seemed, I don't know, radical is probably too extreme, but it was different to say, okay, what's the plan when somebody comes for the first time? All we're gonna do is invite them to come back again. I now know this is called behavioral repetition. I didn't know that ten years ago. Let's just try to get them to come back again. Once they start forming a habit, or at least the beginning of a habit. We know data in the field says, if you can just get them back for a second time within twelve months of that first experience, they are so much more loyal. Their lifetime value skyrockets, all these things that we want to see.

Speaker 2: 13:48

And

Speaker 1: 13:48

so I thought, okay. Their first time or the only thing we want them to do is come back Let's invite them back. Let's give them offers. Let's wait in or whatever. Pull out all the marketing stops to get those first timers back again.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Was there like a time frame of when you wanted to get them back again?

Speaker 1: 14:00

Yeah. We said if we can do it within twelve months, we tried to get it sooner just to add some urgency, but the data shows if you can do it within twelve months.

Speaker 2: 14:07

Okay?

Speaker 1: 14:08

Then they're kinda in the system.

Speaker 2: 14:09

Okay? So I'm a first time person, and I bought a ticket, I go to performance, and within the next twelve months, I'm hopefully coming back just for another repeat one off.

Speaker 1: 14:18

That's exactly right. Yeah. We're not trying to sell you season tickets yet or anything like that. And there were a whole bunch of things we had in place, you know, what's the email sequence afterwards? What's the postcard? You know, multi channel here, all of that. And then also, like I said, what we're not doing, not soliciting, not we're not inviting them to the Gala. We're not inviting them to season tickets. We're not sending the donation letter yet, all those things. Okay. So then, once somebody comes back a second time, then, like I said, the data shows they are primed. They're primed because they're starting to build a habit. So could we sell them on a small season ticket package, a three concert package. It came twice in the last year and not a big leap to then move that behavior to three times a year, that sort of thing. So we came out with, like, a bangin off or three for ninety nine dollars. That kind of a thing where it's, like, okay. And then from there, it was we've gotta do everything we can to get over that first year subscription cliff, get more than fifty percent to renew. And then the numbers are really amazing, true for all arts organizations once somebody is a second year subscriber. Those renewal rates are, like, seventy five percent, eighty percent. Once they're third year subscriber, it's, like, ninety percent. Right? Like, the whole equation changes. And then, like I said, by their second year, the research shows they're really primed for a donation ask. So this isn't I call it the long haul model, but that's the change in the donor pipeline. And then that is not the only strategy that led to the success you shared at the beginning, double the audience, quadruple the donor base, but it was a big, big part of that success for sure.

Speaker 2: 15:38

That's incredible. You're making me think about my parents who they live in Sarasota, Florida. It is a very rich arts community.

Speaker 1: 15:44

Yes.

Speaker 2: 15:44

And they have been season ticket holders for the local Florida studio theater for years. And they do it with another couple friend of theirs. And it's now been it's, like, it's date nights. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, double date nights and they go out. And I I got Literally, I can't and the same thing with UCF. My college is funny because they're still local and I'm not and they still get season tickets and go to the games even though I'm definitely not there anymore, and I'm not open. Local to go with them. They go. To my alumni games because they have friends now that they met when I was there in school. So to your point, getting over that first year and then you're hooked because you become like, super fan.

Speaker 1: 16:27

That's exactly right. That is a great way to put it. Yeah. It's building loyalty, super fandom, and of course, like the holy grail. And what you just described as this other element of its community building. And Yeah. That's the part that I mean, every market are listening to this knows. Like, if we can start selling community we're selling something way, way deeper in terms of, like, human connection than any product or service any of us offer. So I I just love that, like, naturally, those are the words that came out of, like, oh, no. They have friends. To have it, they have friends, superfan, all these things are, like, check, check, that is what we want.

Speaker 2: 16:58

Yes. And I wanna get to the test that you did on UX with the younger demographic in a second. But first, I just wanna, like, wrap up the donor pipeline here and talk about why are not more organizations shifting to this model. If it's so profoundly different in the results and I might have a slight clue. You did mention that your organization was, like, under fire to bring in funds and you said a big word and that you had to have patience in this new model. Is that why people don't do it? Because they're just like, no, let's just send everything and see what sticks.

Speaker 1: 17:34

I think you're not wrong, Dana. I hate to add some nuance. I mean, yes. Of course, what you said is correct. It's mixed, I will say. There are deaf there's definitely a growing number of organizations adopting this model. It's a big part of the work I do today. Is helping organizations adopt this strategy. And so there is good news. It is being adopted more and more. I think part of it is because of the challenges of the industry and and more and more folks and leaders are saying, okay, yeah, there's gotta be a better way because we know what the graph looks like if we keep doing what we're doing. So okay. That's the good news. But I think to dig into, yeah, why resistance, resistance to change, change management is a whole category to talk about fear of change for sure. And I think for some organizations, you know, when things are scary or uncertain or there is more financial strain, our natural reaction as humans, sometimes as to, you know yeah. Exactly. Both of us are, like, buckling. Like, for people, I know when nobody can see us, but just white knuckling. Like, yeah. Grab on, hang on. And so, you know, combating that tendency is a real barrier. And there is some money attached. Sometimes people do come once and then give a donation when they're asked. We know what those renewal rates are. We just talked about it. But, you know, so the short term like, oh, am I gonna lose something is a real driver? But to say, it doesn't even take that long. It's called the long haul model, but to say, If we just, hey, if we just wait one year

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yeah. Doing the same thing, then nothing's going to change.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So about like I said, more and more people are saying, okay, no, I think it's time to get if we wanna be around for a couple years, we need a couple year plan, not six month plan. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:18

I love it. And I love tech. So if you don't mind, would you share what CRM platform are you using for, like, your audience donor management an email tool. Yeah. I get this a lot, and it's funny. I'll answer it,

Speaker 1: 19:31

but I get asked about tech stack all the time. And I think for Arts Organization, there's not a silver bullet like, I don't have one that I highly recommend at the time. The CRM was Vendini, which was specific to the art It's not even in business anymore. It was acquired by somebody else. Yada yada, it was not like the perfect source for data, which I say because so many arts organizations think, like, I need the right CRM, and I don't know that there is a right CRM. So instead, you have to say, no, no, we're gonna be disciplined about the data. No matter the tools in our toolbox. Email was Mailchimp, so standard for so many of us, and that was a good tool for us to be able to do segmentation and drip campaigns and things that again ten years ago weren't as common. There it was definitely a practice but not as common as now.

Speaker 2: 20:16

Awesome. Okay. Cool. And then what are your tips? You had a board that seemed like they were willing to kind of take this risk with you. What would be your advice to organizations that maybe don't have that gung ho approval from board move forward? How do you overcome maybe that risk adverse mentality?

Speaker 1: 20:37

Follow the data. This is why I've become so data driven over my whole career because even long before California, Symphony, when I was at those bigger institutions, Seattle, Symphony, Seattle opera, even Bumber Shoot Music and Arts Festival, there was a lot of, like, trying to get these ideas greenlit, trying to employ a version of these strategies. And so even then, you know, dealing with what, you wanna do what, you wanna focus on retention, you you know, And so being able to really know the numbers and say, this is what the data shows. And we're so lucky that we have so much data already available to us. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just have to know the data that is available in the studies that have been done. So that's thing one. And I would say thing two is I am a huge fan of iteration, which means I'm a huge fan of pilot testing. And when you call something a test, wow does that lower that barrier, that resistance, the threat a little bit more. Instead, it's we're just gonna test it. We're gonna try this for three months, six months a year, pick your time frame. And see how this goes. And suddenly when you call something a test, I mean, it truly is. It just takes the pressure off, but then also It helps us remember that these things aren't set in stone. Our job as leaders is not to hit a home run hail Mary every single time. Our job is to help lead through what are now deep into our expectations. Exactly. Impossible. And I think, to just say, one more thing on this topic, It is also human nature to when there's complex problems, want an equally complex sweeping solution. It is just human nature. But to know the biases is the first step to overcome them. So to say, no. No. No. We will iterate. We will take some small steps here. We will test, measure, refine, repeat. That to me is the formula for growth in a successful organization.

Speaker 2: 22:26

Yes. And you did some testing with your website, which I think is fabulous. That was called an experiment. I did some reading. And it was called OrchestraX experiment. And this was to kind of like reinvigor millennials and Gen Xers. Right? Mhmm. Okay. And so it was updating, which I was so smart, the UX of your audience experience on your website. Can you share For those that aren't familiar, maybe like UXUI, what does that mean? And why did you do this?

Speaker 1: 22:58

This was also years ago, I had no idea what user experience was. I did I now know that that is what is called, and that is what we did with UX research. I didn't know it at the time. So Why was because of that statistic we already shared? Ninety percent of first timers not coming back. So we have the retention plan in place, and then OrchestraX was like thing number two I started when I got there and they are being the California company. And we thought, okay, if ninety percent of first timers aren't coming back, like retention share and our efforts and what we can control share while we're working on that part, but there's gotta be something else we're missing. And so we thought, okay, let's ask them about it. Let's ask newcomers about their experience. And so we put out the call, we said, you know, millennial shenanigans. And again, it was ten years ago. So Gen Z, I don't how old was Gen Z that not quite old enough to be going to the Symphony or if so, not in a way that I mean, now, gents

Speaker 2: 23:56

I mean, now I'm still and I'm thirty five. So I was twenty five.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Yeah. Exactly. Right? And so we thought, okay, millennial gen xers, that'll be our target for this. And we put off the call. We said, if you're the type of person who likes live entertainment events, is smart, educated, identifies as those things, identifies as somebody who is culturally aware, But for whatever reason, you just don't go to the Symphony, we said, we want to hear from you. And so we put off that call and even that alone just posting about that, got a lot of response. And what we did, we said, okay, for this research project, you can come to as many concerts in the season as you want. For five dollars each. Not free, but I have no it wasn't about making money, it was about research. And the reason why five dollars is because, like I said, free has no value, but also we wanted them to go through the purchase path on the website. And we said so you got to buy something in order to go through the purchase path. So basement low price of five dollars. And We said, but there's one concert in particular that's required just so we can have a shared experience from which to be the basis of the discussion focus groups. That happened later. So that was the setup. And sure enough, when we got to the focus group, on the website, in particular, so many people said things like, wow, your website reads, like, inside baseball. And it became really clear. We just had so much and actually, it's funny we were just talking about tech. Comments like, there is so much technical language and jargon on your website. Talking about an orchestra, not Silicon Valley. Right? And Yeah. Those kind of comments were so eye opening. And the more we probed and drilled into that, it turned out that, yeah, we're using all these words like concerto and Aria, if you're an opera company, and things like, there are words that are very familiar to people who have spent hand raised decades in classical music not familiar to smart grown adults because it's not taught anymore. And it was a real, like, crossroads moment for me of Aubrey, why do you preach that the decline in public arts education in this country is a big reason for declining audiences which so many of us in this sector do believe that. And yet, I had done nothing to change how I talk about the product, how I talk about the experience. And so, like I said, this real crossroads moment where I thought, Aubrey, you either get your head out of the sand and do something differently about this in response to this feedback you're hearing. Or, like we said, just keep doing things the same old way. And and so, yeah, we've started making changes. There were also comments like we want to know is this concert? Is it a romantic comedy or a tragedy? Talking about an orchestra, not a play. Right? But is it a romantic comedy or a tragedy? And we realized, like, oh, like, they can't tell when, like, most orchestra websites are just you go to the Landing Page for the program and it's Here's the program. Composer. Composer. And it just became so clear that right, not everybody knows these composer names, not everybody knows the typical length of a concert. That was even another just so many easy fixes. You just attach the length of the pieces. Like, put it on the website. These are copy just these are so easy. Yeah. And so especially at the beginning, we still it was the first year I was there. We were digging out of that financial hole. We had no money. No money. And I was like, the copy changes are free. And it was amazing. The results that we started seeing just with changing the copy in response to these things I just shared. Less vocabulary words, define them when we use them. We started even just linking pieces of music to their Wikipedia page because we were, like, somebody in the group had suggested that they're, like, I looked up every piece on your season on Wikipedia, which was very extreme and most customers won't go to that. Great length to learn.

Speaker 2: 27:39

They were just trying to understand what type of experience we have at.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Yes. A hundred percent. How am

Speaker 2: 27:44

I going to feel?

Speaker 1: 27:45

Yeah. Sure.

Speaker 2: 27:46

I'm leaving. Is it gonna be a v? Is this blank? Yes. Yeah. Is this blank? I'm gonna have a cocktail or I'm gonna need to, like, talk about this for thirty minutes.

Speaker 1: 27:55

No. No. You're totally right because And I've now learned, like, a key part of user experience research is how does somebody feel? And what we learned is that they felt intimidated. They felt unwell I mean, god, these are words that you do not want associated with your brand. And even just on the question of what to wear, there was a whole dialogue of so many people assume that younger folks want to dress down, and that was so clear. They're like, I just want to fit in. What is the ex expectation. So I know if I need to dress up or not. Right? And so it just began so many eye opening comments. Don't want to feel unanticipated. Don't want to feel unwelcome. And I was like, well, no wonder when ninety percent are coming back. I don't go back to places. I feel unqualified here.

Speaker 2: 28:36

I remember my first time going to Broadway in New York City was I was in high school. We happen to be I was part of a gospel choir. Nothing I've ever I've definitely never

Speaker 1: 28:45

shared this. I want this. Keep going.

Speaker 2: 28:48

We traveled up the States all the way from Florida to New York City, and we stopped at a lot of churches along the way. And when we reached New York City, we had a nearby church that we were gonna be singing at, and we got to, like, tour around the city for a little bit. And my mom shopper owned this trip, and she said, would you like to go see the color purple? And I had no idea about Broadway. And I think literally my response to my mom was, do we have anything to wear? Like, do we have to be fancy? Yeah. Which was completely opposite of usually Broadway's such a mixed bag in New York City where people are wearing. Mostly it's very casual. But that was one of the first things that I asked was, oh, man, I'm like, I don't know. Like, can we even go?

Speaker 1: 29:34

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just uncovers, like, yeah, these feelings of if you don't know, you don't know, and there's no shame in that. And that is on us as arts organizations to I now say fill in that knowledge gap

Speaker 2: 29:44

Mhmm.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Make those expectations clear. That is on us as organizations. That's not on the consumer. And I think so often, we try to put that on the consumer. Like, we'll Google it. And it's like, no. No. No. No. No. No. In twenty twenty four, customers don't take that long to, you know, research these things. Like, no way. So that's on us as organizations, but I love that story because it's so real. And so If I can just say one more thing to be positive about this, we've learned and this is so fundamental now to my work through this user experience research. Okay. So we talked about all these negative emotions nervousness, concern, all these other things. When we talked about the music itself, the emotion that everybody expressed was awe. I felt aw, seeing eighty, ninety people perform together on a stage, seeing something on Broadway for the first time. It is larger than life. I felt awe and it was like everybody in the room and every time I repeated this kind of research, it's something a moment like this happens. And that for me just cemented

Speaker 2: 30:43

a great word.

Speaker 1: 30:44

The art is not the problem. It is talk about user experience, research, all these strategies, retention, it's everything around the art that really needs to be optimized to run a successful business.

Speaker 2: 30:55

Yes. Whenever you get in the room, like, you're there and usually it's beautiful, whatever you're seeing. Love that. So what was the result afterwards of changing it. Did you see an increase in younger listeners?

Speaker 1: 31:09

Or So it's interesting because we didn't set out just to get quote unquote younger audiences. I mean, that was who we were targeting for the user experience research, but a lot of time. Let me let me do this another way. I'll do what typically organizations do and then what we did instead. So typically, when we have this conversation of we need new audiences, we need younger audiences, it's, oh, let's do more Harry Potter and Concert. Let's do another Star Wars program, you know, that kind of thing. Nothing wrong with those concerts. Those concerts are awesome. They're super fun. You go see the movie on the big screen. The orchestra plays live. Like, not throwing shade on that. However, what happens? Ninety percent of those people or more in those cases for those concerts don't come back again. And so it doesn't like, to me, I was like, this does not solve the fundamental challenge. So to connect some of these dots, I realized it's like it's not the art. That's the problem. No problem playing Harry Potter, but that doesn't mean play less prompts. Like, we can have all of this coexist because it's all really if we believe in the power of our product and the strength of our product, which I do and I felt like that focus group research was affirming, It's like, no. No. No. No. All these genres can coexist. Nobody said I need more Beethoven or less Beethoven. Nobody said I need more Harry Potter or less Harry Potter. Instead, it was, okay, if the art's not the problem, let's stop tinkering with the product to try to solve these challenges. Instead, let's start talking about experience that people are having. So when we started making those changes, the website copy changes, even on-site, can we create an experience that's more welcoming? Can we just work with the venue to allow people to bring drinks to their seats. Okay. Seemed small, but nobody wants to gulp down their drink. They just paid twenty bucks for an intermission. You know? It's like, and so even working, like, fighting that battle with the venue to say, no, this really matters. And then, you know, you make all these little changes. This is another argument for iteration. You make all these little changes. And then together, they really make a big difference. So in that first season Thank you. Financial crisis.

Speaker 2: 33:01

I'm so sure. The drinks are, like, twenty five dollars a day. Oh, I was like, you have five minutes

Speaker 1: 33:05

to download it. Chug chug chug. Yeah. I wouldn't talk about a terrible experience. Yeah. So Okay. We started addressing all of these things. And then at the end of that first season, we had increased ticket sales by almost twenty percent overall. First time buyer retention had gone up from that ten percent ninety percent no return to, I think, twenty percent in that first year of their first timers were coming back within twelve months. Eventually, we got it to thirty percent pretty reliably. Like, no matter what concert it was, we knew around thirty percent we would have That's three x the industry average. So we were pretty happy with that. So but that was that first year and then put in place without the retention plans that really started rocking and rolling by year two because it does take a little time. Mhmm. That first year that we came off of it was like twenty years of deficit budgets. Before I arrived, that first year we balanced the budget. Wow. It was a hustle that first year, but then the good news for anybody listening to this, it does get easier. That is

Speaker 2: 34:01

the beauty of momentum. That's the beauty of Anybody who likes a flywheel concept. Right? Like, it just it does get easier, but getting it started, you know. It means change. So good, Aubrey. Thank you so much for sharing that with us and breaking that down. That's incredible. And I hope it's inspiring. And people are taking some notes on things that they can maybe change or pass forwards and tips for their organizations. That's incredible. Where can people find your book they can dive into more details on what you did. Anywhere you buy books, it's out now. It is called run it like a business, and I will say

Speaker 1: 34:38

it strategies for arts organizations is the subtitle to increase revenue, multiply money, all those things. But anybody listening to these concepts, hopefully you can see. I try to think out side the arts a bit here and really take inspiration from the business world and how do we play it to our work. But anywhere you get books, aubrey burgh hour dot com slash book if you're not sure, but otherwise Amazon, you got it.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. Everybody, go get it. I cannot wait to check it out. I wanna jump into the last section, which is ask and receive. Who do you think is doing a great job at marketing that you think should be highlighted on the show, either a brand or give me an individual.

Speaker 1: 35:14

When I was researching the book, I was really looking for so many interesting examples and it didn't make the book. So I wanna share it here, is National Park Service. So I don't know if anybody follows them or not. Run, don't walk. If you do not follow them on Instagram already. Their feed is so entertaining, which is probably not a word you would think was gonna come out of my mouth with national park service. And what do we know about National Parks? Their visitorship has really skyrocketed since lockdown and continues to skyrocket and their social media could be kind of boring if you think, like, it could be pictures of trees and rocks and stuff, I guess, but it's not. And so they have just done an excellent job of this idea of

Speaker 2: 35:58

actually totally going and following rate.

Speaker 1: 36:00

Yeah. Really just, like, entertaining thumb, stopping content, just really, like, I don't know. Here I am talking about them. Their pictures, their their feed was all rocks and trees. I wouldn't be saying this, you know.

Speaker 2: 36:11

Five point seven million followers national parks service, whoever manages your account. I am, oh my gosh, of course, the Super Bowl. The first thing I find, there's I don't know if these are squirrels. Doing touchdown with, like, the positions of the funny animals just here for the commercials and it's, like, a otter. Fumble with a bear, like, covering its eyes. These are so funny. Holding and it's two bears holding each other.

Speaker 1: 36:39

They do a good job. I don't know who runs that account, but that person is that person must be fun at a dinner party. I'll say that. They're pretty clever.

Speaker 2: 36:47

I love it. I love it. That's amazing. Secondly, what is one thing that you would like to ask for help or support on? I'm assuming regarding the book.

Speaker 1: 36:55

I was gonna say, a book at this point. It's the whole hustle right now, but anybody who has any interest, it means a lot. We talked about where to get it. But run it like a business.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Awesome. Are you doing any, like, private trainings too? Do you do workshops? And Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:08

Thank you for asking. Yeah. I have several online courses I offer. I now have the run at, like, a business academy. So for those organizations that say, yeah, this sounds great. We need a little help and structure around creating the change, implementing this model. That's exactly what the academy does. It goes deeper than what I was able to do in the book. Really is meant for staff. So the book is met for a broader audience. Anybody who has any interest in these topics, the Academy is for anybody who says, okay, yeah, I'm ready to bring this to my organization. So thank you for asking.

Speaker 2: 37:37

Of course. Awesome. And then lastly, where can listeners connect with you?

Speaker 1: 37:42

Online obry burguer dot com, on social media at obry burguer, I would love to see you all there.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Yay, Aubrey, thank you so much. Congratulations again on your book and can't wait

Speaker 1: 37:52

to dive in and check it out. Thank you, Dana. It's total pleasure.

Speaker 2: 37:56

Can you tell I love talking all things digital. To make this show better, I'd be so grateful for your feedback Leave a review, take a screenshot of this episode, share it on Instagram stories, and tag positive equation with one e. So I can re share and connect with you.